The Pilots for this aircraft are CW4 Perkins and CW3 Rayner. This event occurred at an airfield Udari, Kuwait. During a combat mission in Iraq that morning the flight had returned to Kuwait where the steering wheel was out of phase and upon touchdown it seperated from the airframe. The pilots quickly recovered the aircraft and with the outstanding efforts of the ground crew were able to land it with no additional damage. The strut on the gear had previous stress cracks that were not detectable.
Nicely done, I know how difficult it is! I was one of 4 guys who positioned a jack under a lost rear right lg of uk chinook in 1993 in Oman. Unfortunately for us we had no warning of the aircraft incoming, which was bingo fuel, and so we had no time to sandbag etc. We landed it straight onto the jack point! Praise has to goto both air and ground crews, some precision flying and nerves of steel involved with 20 ish tonnes of whirling metal doing it's best to ruin your day!!!
I wonder if the guy walking through at 2:01just lost a bet, or was taking someone's dare.
Helmet, jacket, shorty shorts, and sneakers. Got it. Now you have to just walk through the middle of what's going on here like you have no idea where you are. Oh, and pretend you don't see a helicopter, you're looking for your lost kitten.
This is the safest way to do it.... the aircraft will always come in at different highs depending on the Weight. the most effective way is to Build up to its resting level with sandbags or Pallets.
they can use Jacks But its harder to land on a Jack Point than a Sandbag! so its more preferable to use sandbags
Actually this is the equipment. Most of the NAVDETRA instructions tell you to use pallets or DET boxes to support the aircraft for hung gear. Hell, the protocol for hung data link antennas on the LAMPSIII helos was to snap it off with a pry bar or 2x4 if all else failed, while the aircraft was in a hover.
Fucking retard who made this video, try turning the goddamn sound volumes down so they don't blow up the viewer's speakers.
Your stupid assed music sounds like shit at the audio levels you dubbed them at. When you make high quality desk top speakers sound like SHIT even with the master audio desktop audio control set to 10% volume, YOU ARE FUCKING DOING IT WRONG.
PS: Sorry, but agree the sound track kinda sucks, but I suspect it conveys the energy of the moment. So for those of us that think this music sucks aesthetically, let's just grant artistic license for it still being an appropriate selection under the circumstances.
Is there a law somewhere that says there has to be gay death metal screaming music whenever theres a military video on youtube? Real soldiers just cringe at this crap you know.
I don't agree...I'm a soldier and I love metal, not this song but I love all that heavy stuff. I agree with the question you asked but you can't categorize all of us.
Duh...either the S.A.S system wasn't functioning or the pilot was a little drunk. If you think thats amazing you should see what happens when ya put a fuel tank check valve in backwards. If you're out there specialist Hayden from FAAF germany maybe you remember that little incident? LoL
I'm doing good. Send me your Email. I have the 30 min one too. I probably send that back with Williams when he comes in for a visit. You're with the ASF right?
That's pretty funny. The same thing happened to one of our Chinooks in Afghanistan last year. Our safety officer couldn't ask for a copy of the video- he was the one that snapped the aft landing gear off while turning during ground taxi.
Makes me want to re-enlist and try for WO or finish school and see if i couldn't fly while commissioned. I miss the army but being a civilian again was like being reborn with a better attitude.
My guess is roll on landing without swivel locks locked. Hey FE's, that's why u should always lower that ramp and double check em before doing roll ons.
you can tell that was an american chinook and not a british one because the raf groundcrew would of made sure it was servicable before flying lol good job lanind the chinny by the pilots though
But thats why they kick ass. Excellent work guys. This should be a video to show ANY organization that requires teamwork and dedication to the job as core values.
During an NTC rotation in the mid 90s one of the Chinooks with us lost an aft landing gear and wasn't even sure where during the mission it happened. Night mission with a rough PZ and LZ and lots of dusty dark in between.
I was on this bird when it happened. We weren't back taxing. The pilot on the controls landing it, landed whilst turning and the aft right wheel caught the asphalt and snapped off. I was the Flight Engineer at the cabin door and you'll see me get out of the helicopter at around minute
3:00. The pilots did exhibit skill in landing. It's hard to put a 13 Ton plane down on a pallet of wood, whilst taking directions from the FE in the back of the plane. The three guys putting the ten ton jack under the jacking point are all pilots now I think. I am sure two of them are. If you want anymore clarification on this video, send me a message.
I saw it happen to one bird while training at JRTC in LA, and almost happen to another bird while on presidential support mission in Ireland, but a quick radio call from our helicopter let the other crew know what was going on before it snapped. Just wanna give a shout out to Varsity, Big Windy, and Hercules. Hookers Rock!!!
The aft landing gear swivel to allow the bird to turn/steer on the ground. Swivel locks lock the aft gear into a straight-line configuration, and MUST be locked to back taxi. If they are not locked, the aft gear will de-phase (turn 90 degrees) and one or both gears will be torn off.
I crewed on chinooks for nine years. I would guess it happened from what we call "back taxi". That is when you roll backwards without being in flight. The nose and forward landing gear are off the ground, but the aft wheels are on the ground.
All they of you guy fit the bill for real life Hero's. That took guts and quick thinking. I hope all three of you got something out of it. You all risked your life to bring that bird down safely. Great Job! Thanks for allowing us to see this.
Yanks doing it the hard way... couple of pallets with sand bags on top slid beneath the rear tressling point far simpler and leaves the cab clear to be jacked... takes the wieght away from the undercarrige structure which could be cracked and weakened. Leave to us Brits to do the job with simple engineering(even taught the yanks how to do it in the stan...)
Same thing happened to my "Airfix" model, couldn't get the wheel to stay on.... :..:
davetherave7 2 months ago
Epic.
checkoutdude 5 months ago
Good job GUYS!
kazunori123 6 months ago
Fantastic work all around.
JcXtreme72 6 months ago
dude u droped this
faireagle91 6 months ago
CE hopped out went yea sir that wheel is fukin gone.
vuduvince 7 months ago
Lol at that guy running by @ 2:02 haha
freekvf 8 months ago
They should have had a few soldiers lay down and bench press the acft till they got the jack under it.
e081194eng 8 months ago
Dude,Whats with the random guy in running gear at 2:00mins...he just happened to be running by when this shit just happened?haha
tomsawyer118 9 months ago
Ok, ur on the ground, unpucker ur asshole to lose suction from the seat so u can get out of the chinook!
ishtech101 10 months ago
Amazing skill by all, well done guys you all must have had to react quickly to avoid any further damage.
Super profesional
Haggman66 10 months ago
The Pilots for this aircraft are CW4 Perkins and CW3 Rayner. This event occurred at an airfield Udari, Kuwait. During a combat mission in Iraq that morning the flight had returned to Kuwait where the steering wheel was out of phase and upon touchdown it seperated from the airframe. The pilots quickly recovered the aircraft and with the outstanding efforts of the ground crew were able to land it with no additional damage. The strut on the gear had previous stress cracks that were not detectable.
CH472009 10 months ago
Clear, This is Perkins. email me a contact...
Thanks
CH472009 10 months ago
I really don't understand how can they put the jacker into the jack point. It's too heavy.
browing1974 11 months ago
Nice 1 lads great job. Respect to u all out their !!!!
HarrysHammer 1 year ago
Nicely done, I know how difficult it is! I was one of 4 guys who positioned a jack under a lost rear right lg of uk chinook in 1993 in Oman. Unfortunately for us we had no warning of the aircraft incoming, which was bingo fuel, and so we had no time to sandbag etc. We landed it straight onto the jack point! Praise has to goto both air and ground crews, some precision flying and nerves of steel involved with 20 ish tonnes of whirling metal doing it's best to ruin your day!!!
Best aircraft in
martinmcc2304 1 year ago
... Crazy!..
PAULIZEl 1 year ago
I wonder if the guy walking through at 2:01just lost a bet, or was taking someone's dare.
Helmet, jacket, shorty shorts, and sneakers. Got it. Now you have to just walk through the middle of what's going on here like you have no idea where you are. Oh, and pretend you don't see a helicopter, you're looking for your lost kitten.
8literbeater 1 year ago 2
good job
tjnd69 1 year ago
without USA no world !
only4u4everlove 1 year ago
Nice I made youtube!!!
jonhorwath 1 year ago
Wow. Thanks for adding the AWESOME music track. SO SICK.
samgordon420 1 year ago
Wat een tering muziek.
minkuukel 1 year ago
did you ever find out why it happened?
pommyrooter 1 year ago
@pommyrooter No, but I have a pretty good guess.
ei2232 1 year ago
Not too badly done Army. Not bad at all.
Semper Fi from an old Phrog Mech.
261madmike 1 year ago 7
@261madmike Thanks.
ei2232 1 year ago 2
wow I cant believe he hovered that well for that long.
dsc45 1 year ago
Sucks to be the guys driving this thing...
hydremajor 1 year ago
@hydremajor well i dont quite think he would be driving it lol
pommyrooter 1 year ago
did they use emergency shutdown procedures for the engines?
acenzz 2 years ago
No.
ei2232 1 year ago
great...
yanker110 2 years ago
This video could be much better with original audio...
nicetubex 2 years ago 13
All you would hear is the whine of the transmissions. But I'll work on it if that's what you want.
ei2232 1 year ago
mister english
1SFODdelta 2 years ago
it's an army!
1SFODdelta 2 years ago
USAF and RAF rule
boyzy21 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah thats the way.
Suck the sweat off a dead yanks balls.
That'll work
ImTheMightyOne 2 years ago
and the FAA (fleet air arm ) the royal navy airforce :D
killkidnumber2 2 years ago
That was cool. Who needs McGyver when you have USAF ground crews?
But this video raises a good point: There should be equipment designed for incidents such as this
RobBobtron 2 years ago
There is, the marine!
Sting3733 2 years ago
I see what you did there
RobBobtron 2 years ago
This is the safest way to do it.... the aircraft will always come in at different highs depending on the Weight. the most effective way is to Build up to its resting level with sandbags or Pallets.
they can use Jacks But its harder to land on a Jack Point than a Sandbag! so its more preferable to use sandbags
neildonald 2 years ago
It is the Army.
ei2232 1 year ago
That's fantastic!! We use either piles of sandbags on pallets in Afghan, but the RAF landed one in the UK on a load of mattresses - apparently!
MikhailSharpowicz 1 year ago
@RobBobtron
Actually this is the equipment. Most of the NAVDETRA instructions tell you to use pallets or DET boxes to support the aircraft for hung gear. Hell, the protocol for hung data link antennas on the LAMPSIII helos was to snap it off with a pry bar or 2x4 if all else failed, while the aircraft was in a hover.
MeatsackJones 1 year ago
@MeatsackJones Ohh, so rather than have something designed for it they just say "use what ever you find"? Makes sense.
RobBobtron 1 year ago
Really good job. Cool heads. Good improvisation. Very impressive.
kiwitedferny 2 years ago 6
Thank you.
ei2232 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Fucking retard who made this video, try turning the goddamn sound volumes down so they don't blow up the viewer's speakers.
Your stupid assed music sounds like shit at the audio levels you dubbed them at. When you make high quality desk top speakers sound like SHIT even with the master audio desktop audio control set to 10% volume, YOU ARE FUCKING DOING IT WRONG.
DPMS15 2 years ago
the RAF had an advert that said that there is no pit stop at 5000 feet the USAF ground crew say "Can do"
dam fine work
shoootme 2 years ago
shit hook mechanic rules
aimbc 2 years ago
wow good flyin
lilrayray35 2 years ago 3
PS: Sorry, but agree the sound track kinda sucks, but I suspect it conveys the energy of the moment. So for those of us that think this music sucks aesthetically, let's just grant artistic license for it still being an appropriate selection under the circumstances.
Than you, and good day, people.
DocVuDu 2 years ago 3
This is where the correct training manifests teams of leaders when under duress.
Nice improv, gentlemen.
DocVuDu 2 years ago 3
great performance by the pilot and the ground crew...
xterm2003 2 years ago 2
good job guys!! thanks for serving! wow
etarheel1 2 years ago
che martinetto piccolo piccolo che hanno usato..
tronzano1 2 years ago
Basic english translation, "That is a small jack that they used."
sì, ma esso è una presa resistente. Il mio italiano non è quello buon.
ei2232 2 years ago
Is there a law somewhere that says there has to be gay death metal screaming music whenever theres a military video on youtube? Real soldiers just cringe at this crap you know.
holybejaysus 2 years ago 3
I don't agree...I'm a soldier and I love metal, not this song but I love all that heavy stuff. I agree with the question you asked but you can't categorize all of us.
Provo89 2 years ago
You think this is death metal? What do you consider rock, Aretha Franklin - You Make Me Feel? And I picked it because of the lyrics.
ei2232 2 years ago
Personally I can't understand a word being said in this "song", but I still respect you guys for being out there doing this kind of work.
bigdjindustriez 2 years ago
Prior to debriefing everyone involved had to change their underwear because the room had no ventilation.
Laxpowertoo 2 years ago
Great work by the ground crew and some damn good flying by the pilots!
smash29 2 years ago
Bravo
ATrueSriLankan 2 years ago
did you see that man in shorts and trainers passing by at at 2:04...funny, i guess he got lost at the air base :)
blackhawk119 2 years ago
What's with that music????
another video messed up!!!!!
itsracktime 2 years ago
You can just imagine it..."Hang on lads, Ive got an idea..."
hugheyb 2 years ago
FUCK THAT, there's no way on gods green earth i'd wanna be one of the poor bastards trying to prop that thing up, they earned their pay that day.
5poplar 2 years ago
We also got a coin.
ei2232 2 years ago
looks like camp beuhring, kuwait, i was out here in 2006 with HC-4. MH-53's
Dougie3500 2 years ago
Nope.
ei2232 2 years ago
great save
happymark1805 3 years ago
Duh...either the S.A.S system wasn't functioning or the pilot was a little drunk. If you think thats amazing you should see what happens when ya put a fuel tank check valve in backwards. If you're out there specialist Hayden from FAAF germany maybe you remember that little incident? LoL
karatekoop 3 years ago
2:02 wtf is with the dude running PT on the flight line in the middle of an IFE? lmao
skipplet 3 years ago
hahaha that was great, Hardcore PT at its best
CanadianSoulja19 3 years ago
nice improvisation!
cheesedude9909 3 years ago
Please tell me that was planned, and our troops aren't flying choppers where the wheels just fall off?
seanwilliams78 3 years ago
It didn't fall off. It broke off because of an accident.
ei2232 2 years ago
LOL i agree with the Safety Officer. I live in England and saw a Chinook come down once, man it was bad!
EmayaTaku 3 years ago
Nice one everyone ait loved watching it. -PFC Dickerson 15U Ft. Eustis, Va
robertgdickerson 3 years ago
that what i call using your head. pilots and ground crew did a spectacular job of averting an accident.
fuzzdmedic 3 years ago
Howkum they don't carry a jack and a spare?
macanix 3 years ago
Wow, you have great music on your videos ei2232.
eric948470 3 years ago
What's the name of the song?
eric948470 3 years ago
Got it. 'Fly' by Loudmouth
eric948470 3 years ago
Hey this is Johnson, why can't I see it? send it to me if you can. How's everything?
vasflyboy 3 years ago
I'm doing good. Send me your Email. I have the 30 min one too. I probably send that back with Williams when he comes in for a visit. You're with the ASF right?
ei2232 3 years ago
great pilot and could you emagine what it would be like under that thing then it is at full throutal it can throw you off your feet
rcnkiller 3 years ago
It was like a strong sandstorm. Most women pay big bucks to get that extreme exfoliation.
ei2232 3 years ago
If you were one of the 3 then how did ya video it?
All teh same, good work guys from a fast jet tech :)
(RAF)
poxleeds 3 years ago
I didn't video it. I edited it. It is about a full 30 minutes uncut.
ei2232 3 years ago
Heh heh, that's one I never saw in Vietnam. I guess the old A model gear was tougher.
FE - 66-19150
Phu Loi RVN 5/69-11/70
daveglightning 3 years ago
That's pretty funny. The same thing happened to one of our Chinooks in Afghanistan last year. Our safety officer couldn't ask for a copy of the video- he was the one that snapped the aft landing gear off while turning during ground taxi.
wzl46 3 years ago
great job! now thats teamwork = ]
bass1134 3 years ago
Awsome teamwork...Chinook crews are just a different breed. 213AVNCO "Black Cats" Korea JUNE85-JUNE87.
JTVFAN 3 years ago
Makes me want to re-enlist and try for WO or finish school and see if i couldn't fly while commissioned. I miss the army but being a civilian again was like being reborn with a better attitude.
Army Pride Hooah
KaoticFdr1 3 years ago
props to the pilot.
splynt0r 3 years ago
My guess is roll on landing without swivel locks locked. Hey FE's, that's why u should always lower that ramp and double check em before doing roll ons.
Redadore 3 years ago
In Spain we call that a "chapuza".
madfury 3 years ago
Does that translate to english?
ei2232 3 years ago
Shoddy piece of work.
madfury 3 years ago
you can tell that was an american chinook and not a british one because the raf groundcrew would of made sure it was servicable before flying lol good job lanind the chinny by the pilots though
spandyclayton 3 years ago
Wow. That's AWESOME!!
ddrummerboi 3 years ago 3
Great Vid
thetubeusernumber9 3 years ago 3
Nice Job!
4wheeldrifting 3 years ago 2
great team work
elchaconaso 3 years ago 2
Nevermind, I posted before the video got to 4:10
ThunderAppeal 4 years ago
Its alright. Yeah, it snapped in two.
ei2232 3 years ago
Every last army helo pilot is fucking insane...
But thats why they kick ass. Excellent work guys. This should be a video to show ANY organization that requires teamwork and dedication to the job as core values.
PTKilowatt 3 years ago
It looks like only the wheel fell off. Looks like the hub and brake system is still on.
ThunderAppeal 4 years ago
I wonder how it did come off in the first place.
buchnermarkus 4 years ago
My guess would be Swivel Switch locked on a pedal turn with ground contact.
ei2232 4 years ago
can they lock it? ( the rear wheel )
I only know that they steer with the rear.
buchnermarkus 4 years ago
yes.
ei2232 4 years ago
You guys are great. Thanks!
47scmefly 4 years ago
hey man thanks for what you do , thanks for helping me get in and out of iraq , respect
defonze 4 years ago
US not UK
Chariot34 4 years ago
just out of interest is this uk or U.S?? Just wondering. upmost respect anyhow.
bbjwilliams 4 years ago
USA
ei2232 2 years ago
Im in AIT right now training as a 15U Chinook Repairer and I gotta say this was a very cool video. Rock on!
DMart425 4 years ago 2
very god pilot skills!!!!
kingpat01 4 years ago 3
You guys rule! Air Force guys are pussies! Safety this, safety that and no one does anything.
imlaco 4 years ago
awesome vid, you guys did a good job there saving the aircraft!
thank you for your service!
bloo96 4 years ago
Great video, rare footage. Thanks for your service, too. Happy veteran's week.
It was good music. What's there to hear? A turboshaft screaming at youtube quality sound?
mpwelk 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why the shit music?
robertozube 4 years ago
Sorry if you don't like it. Perhaps next time I'll use "You make me feel" by Aretha Franklin just for you.
ei2232 4 years ago
My dad gad to do this for a chinook on HMS Illustrious,, Funny pics lol.. Good job guys.
andyrooo636 4 years ago
you just cant belly land it?
LoudS1l3nc3 4 years ago
That would involve breaking the remaining 3 landing gear off and would leave the aircraft on the ground with no way of jacking it back up to fix it.
ei2232 4 years ago
yeah, the gear on a CH-47 Chinook, do not fold
cwKnight2000 4 years ago
lots of balls; ground crew and pilots!
fernfeyes 4 years ago
Wow those pilots have some skills
Pete5506 4 years ago
fuckin hell lads awsome work!
dusty1979 4 years ago
first class
checkoutdude 4 years ago
lol it lost a wheel
oldbinny 4 years ago
What a pilot...and real teamwork...it takes a large set of balls to risk your life. Good work! Amazing video...
:D
fcssl 4 years ago
Now that's some piloting skills man great job
HOOAH
Richardelizee 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
This is bunny. Copy and paste this everywhere to help bunny gain world domination.
cyborggrievous 4 years ago
Nice job guys! That took some balls.
arkgunslinger 4 years ago
During an NTC rotation in the mid 90s one of the Chinooks with us lost an aft landing gear and wasn't even sure where during the mission it happened. Night mission with a rough PZ and LZ and lots of dusty dark in between.
AAZCD 4 years ago
I was on this bird when it happened. We weren't back taxing. The pilot on the controls landing it, landed whilst turning and the aft right wheel caught the asphalt and snapped off. I was the Flight Engineer at the cabin door and you'll see me get out of the helicopter at around minute
Severian47 4 years ago
3:00. The pilots did exhibit skill in landing. It's hard to put a 13 Ton plane down on a pallet of wood, whilst taking directions from the FE in the back of the plane. The three guys putting the ten ton jack under the jacking point are all pilots now I think. I am sure two of them are. If you want anymore clarification on this video, send me a message.
Severian47 4 years ago
I know 2 are... I'm one of them. Don't know about Mike though...?
ei2232 4 years ago
That took skill from the pilot !!!
RudeRaptor 4 years ago
USA BUILT CRAP CHINOOKS R A DEATH TRAP
JAMESJW2006 4 years ago
[foxworthy]If you have a military asset up on blocks in your front yard--you might be a redneck[/foxworthy]
veloblues 4 years ago
I saw it happen to one bird while training at JRTC in LA, and almost happen to another bird while on presidential support mission in Ireland, but a quick radio call from our helicopter let the other crew know what was going on before it snapped. Just wanna give a shout out to Varsity, Big Windy, and Hercules. Hookers Rock!!!
souco2 4 years ago
The aft landing gear swivel to allow the bird to turn/steer on the ground. Swivel locks lock the aft gear into a straight-line configuration, and MUST be locked to back taxi. If they are not locked, the aft gear will de-phase (turn 90 degrees) and one or both gears will be torn off.
souco2 4 years ago
I crewed on chinooks for nine years. I would guess it happened from what we call "back taxi". That is when you roll backwards without being in flight. The nose and forward landing gear are off the ground, but the aft wheels are on the ground.
souco2 4 years ago
If had to guess, I would say this was a result of a 'touch and go' gone bad. Great recovery!
motorpsykler 4 years ago
You army guys...your all the same. Fucking brilliant. Mega Shit!
Martins219 4 years ago
All they of you guy fit the bill for real life Hero's. That took guts and quick thinking. I hope all three of you got something out of it. You all risked your life to bring that bird down safely. Great Job! Thanks for allowing us to see this.
rickd248 4 years ago
Yep, we all got a coin...
ei2232 4 years ago
thats some good quick thinkin!
Nikon05 4 years ago
Now that's a jack stand.
viperq 4 years ago
dumb question? why not just do a wheels up landing.
aadailey 4 years ago
Because they are fixed or "welded" down.
ei2232 4 years ago
The gear on a Chinook is fixed in the "down" position all the time. They could have lost the bird if they had tried to land minus that piece of gear.
rickd248 4 years ago
Do you realise just how difficult it is to work in that downdraft, it is huge and makes any job difficult
good job chaps
60degreesnorth 4 years ago
Thanks. Yes, I realize how hard it is. It actually blew our jack handle under the aircraft and then thankfully blew it back to us.
ei2232 4 years ago
excellent helicopter pilot
BoiBossman 4 years ago
that really did take some guts! 1 unexpected gust of wind could have easily caught out the pilot and well it dont bear thinking about, good job lads!
bigtore 4 years ago
some TI in QC screwed up
ogaffney 4 years ago
nice job!
smartcocker 4 years ago
nice work. that took some balls.
bartlebybartleby 4 years ago
late night for some poor fucker!
crazyjimmy4487 4 years ago
Actually it wasn't to bad on Maintenance. Turns out we didn't have a spare landing gear in Bench Stock, so we had to wait about a week.
ei2232 4 years ago
stupid amercans put the rong bolt in. or used the rong clue
1SB1 4 years ago
Yeah and you work on Chinooks when? SO you REALLY know what your talking about eh...
Helomech59 4 years ago
Is your keyboard missing some keys? Probably wrong glue or bolts^^ ;)
pAnd0rASBG 4 years ago
Lol, American engenuity fighting american steel :-) Good thinking.
Xigano1 4 years ago
Yanks doing it the hard way... couple of pallets with sand bags on top slid beneath the rear tressling point far simpler and leaves the cab clear to be jacked... takes the wieght away from the undercarrige structure which could be cracked and weakened. Leave to us Brits to do the job with simple engineering(even taught the yanks how to do it in the stan...)
smghd 4 years ago
Or... if there are no pallets available you can do it this way. Also, I would think the U.S. taught the Brits, since we've had the 47 since Nam.
ei2232 4 years ago