all through the old testiment punishment was inflicted on people either by the government or by god himself this did nothing positive for the spirit of the people in fact people spirits got worse and worse because of it .this was allowed to make the world realize its need for a savior. Jesus came and taught spirituality a concept never before understood. He taught love, forgiveness, compasion, mercy. for this is the only state that the spirit can heal and come into balance.
Jesus looked more like the muslims they are bombing. He certainly isnt white and it is about time your false idols painted a more realistic looking Jesus,
This white jesus thing is racist, cant you see that?
My religion is kindness. And I have no problem with my children or the children I teach. Kindness goes way beyond what punishment can accomplish. The relationship is everything. When the parenting is too strict and severe the relationship is lost.
You ppl don't know anything, sometimes the kids need to be spanked. I've never been but now I think that i need it, it would have stop me of making some mistakes! And don't get me wrong I'm not talking about beating the crap out of your child!
@justforeveryoung If you really beleived that you needed to be spanked then why not submit yourself to a spanking now. After all what is good for the goose is good for the gander so go for it your never to old to be disciplined.
Honestly I don't think that spanking a child is abusive or an act of volence, but I do belive there are parents out there who cross the line and do abuse their children. A a Christian both my husband and I agree when we have children we will use spanking as a form of punishment, but it will always be the last resort if other punishments don't work. Two of the pastors from my former church also talked openly in sermons about spanking their children. Are you going to tell me my PASTORS were wrong
@83iamme Your "pastors" are wrong and there are plenty out there who should not be in the ministry business. Also, I really hope you consider refraining from using any physical force on your children such as spanking. It sends a mixed message and shows a lack of control on your part. Plus, you can cause long term emotional damage to your child that could lead to anxiety disorders, depression and suicide. Spanking: it violates the child and it violates the law. Please, don't do it! :)
In hebrews 12:09-10 we see a comparison being done between the chastising of our flesh by our earthly fathers and the non-violent chastising of God unto his children. in verse 10 it shows that the only form of chastisment that is profitable to the one receiving it is that which comes from God while that done unto our flesh by our fathers is not profitable to us but only feeds the pleasures of those that inflict it !
@TheUnknownchicken I have heard that argument but the truth is that proverbs does say to "beat " them with the rod. however i do totally agree with you that kids need discipline and need to be taught that there are consequences for their actions. but never through violent means. People seem to get so caught up in salomon's method that they forget the basic truth of the principal of it all.
@TheUnknownchicken what are you talking about? Im against corporal punishment all together there is no difference pointed out anywhere in scripture to lead one to the conclusion that there is some imaginary line somewhere between "discipline" as you call it and abuse. All forms of corpral punishment was allowed in the old testiment and all forms are discouraged in the new testiment.
Corporal punishment is full of hipocracy and is not peacful or merciful and definitley not gentle so it can not be considered wisdom according to the new testiment's definition of wisdom. james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
No one should be hit, except in a necessary case of self defense. Parents who claim they are hitting their children because the bible says so, are liars. They do not sacrifice two turtles every time they menstruate, they do not stone their neighbors if they see them leaving for work on a Sunday morning, they do not kill everyone in town if they see someone praying at a different church though the bible demands all these things. Do not use the bible as an excuse for your poor parenting skills.
people need to realize that we are held to a different standard during the grace period . One can not justify any form of violence by anything that happened before or after the grace period.
people need tro understand that there is a totally different standard of conduct expected of christians during the grace period. One can not justify vilence during the grace period by anything before the grace period(old testiment) or after the grace period(end times) christ non-violent example is the only influence over our actions and thoughts.
100 years ago, wives were chastized, not beaten. Physical chastizement of an arrent and disrespectful wife was the husband's alibi. Also, oddly enough, The Bible was used and twisted to justify this behavior. Husbands felt it was within their Christian duty to discipline his wife. There's a difference. I find it strange that a book that teaches peace (The Bible) is being used and twisted to justify the beating of children today. Now it is a crime to batter wives.
there are many different interpretations of many things in the bible . This is why we have so many different denominations. and even within those denominations individual beleifs vary greatly on many things. it disgust me to think that so many people think that the christian community is all pro-spanking, we are not. there are lots and lots of christians that have seen the truth through scripture that spankings are not of GOd and are wrong. so stop thinking spankings are a christian practice.
I want to point out the reason Jesus didn't say to stone the adulterous woman was because of the vile double-standard of trying to execute ONLY the woman-the weaker sex-and NOT the man. There is no indication He wouldn't have said to proceed as long as the MAN was executed as well. One pastor I grew up with said the men wanted only the woman killed because of a sick "boys will be boys" philosophy. Another pastor said they were simply trying to test Jesus so they could try to make Him look bad
I'm glad Prospank will pray FOR us, as he/she/it will be preying ON his/her/its children. What these crazy fundies need is a good ol' fashioned POGROM.
what gets me is the stubborness of the pro-spanker. even after there children turn out horrible and grow up and say that it did nothing positive for them the parent still beleives they did no wrong becouse they are convinced that it is GOds perfect plan for raising children. so tell me when it doesnt work who do you blame the child or God? because lord forbid you blame your interpretation of the scripture.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
REPENT! The Bible is clear "THE ROD AND REPROOF"! REPENT for destroying our families and schools with your nonsense before its too late! I will be praying for you.
I agree with the creator of the video. "But whoso shall aoffend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. "
@EuphemiseThis So when Jesus in John 2:15 "made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables" I guess he was making the same example you talked about. Proverbs 13:24 is clear when it say "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."
The true Jesus Christ never taught anyone to determine right from wrong based on feelings or "in their hearts". Jeremiah told human heart is deceitful abouve all things and desperately wicked (Jer 17:9).
The true Jesus Christ never softened the Scriptures to please the crowd.
Obey Jesus Christ, obey the Holy Scriptures.
The Bible is right, the TV "specialists" are wrong. Repent, TV worshipers!
@Prospank The "ROD" is from the OLD Testament. Christians are not supposed to follow Old Testament laws. If you do follow the Old Testament, then you also beat your servants.
Proverbs 29:15 The rod of correction gives wisdom, but a child left to himself causes shame to his mother. Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child: the rod of discipline drives it far from him. Proverbs 13:24 One who spares the rod hates his son, but one who loves him is careful to discipline him.
I don't debate that one must go to the failure Solomon and his Proverbs to find support for hitting kids.
The thing is that the bible makes is clear that Solomon failed and so did his children. I would consider it much wiser to follow the example of Jesus Christ. : )
Solomon did not obey his proverbs. He slept with many women, etc. the Proverbs say not to. The one speaking the Proverbs in WISDOM, Wisdom is another name for Jesus Christ. So Jesus Christ and NOT Solomon inspired Proverbs which sadly Solomon and you do not follow!
unfortunately, the proverbs were sayings that Solomon said and people passed down for 200 years by word of mouth before they were recorded under King Hezekiah, they did not fall from the sky, nor is there any gaurantee that they were recorded accurately.
What I do know is that when Christ was asked to pass old test judgement on the aduleress, he asked who there was sinless enough to condemn her, and found no one. Then he, who had authority to judge, let her go.
In addition, even if you believe proverbs to be perfect from Christ himself, then you are still incorrect. For the rod that he mentions is shebet, which is the staff of authority and would have to be symbolic, is sometimes used to refer to Christ, and is like much of proverbs metaphor or hyperbole, for when Proverbs speaks of beating criminals, it uses the literal word for stick or switch, choter. So if Solomon had that word and used shebet instead for kids that should tell u something
I agree, he appears to be illustrating that the judgement of god would be much harsher on those who knew the truth and did not follow it or turned away from God once they knew him.
I hadn't been presented with this one in relation to hitting kids before, which may be because it is said to the adult apostles about judgement, presumably once one's life is over. He talks about us being taken by surprise by the return of our master, we are caught by deat as well like a thief that comes to take
Firstly, if you believe Jesus and God are one then continue reading. Secondly, if you believe God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, continuing reading. If you do not agree with these statements do yourself a favor and stop reading now and start with those two concepts before tackling the concept of Jesus and corporal punishment. The fact is Jesus/God did things that were a lot worse than "hitting" someone. God destroyed temples, turned people to salt, and made one son become fish bait.
If a kid is repeatedly tries to touch a stove chances are until the child realizes that there is a painful consequence to touching that stove he will keep trying, if the lesson learned is a painful one then it has a better chance of sticking with them.
That is called natural or logical consequences. Yes, people and children can learn from logical consequences. In fact these, as well as time-outs, loss of priveleges, ect. have been found to be just as effective in modifying behavior as spanking by people who wanted to justify spanking, like the researcher Larzelere, for example.
There is a wealth of studies by both pro and anti spanking researchers at religious tolerance org all one word, insert period, you know the drill
I suppose this is one thing that we'll wait and see what God says when we reach Heaven and Just agree to disagree.. the punishments listed above does not always work, neither does spankng sometimes I agree. And as I said before Spanking adults is humilating and not effective although a lot of wrong doings me and my siblings learned from were those we were spanked for. I agree you have valid point and appreciate your video and input. and I'm sure your kids will enjoy not having to be spanked :-)
I think best thing to do is get into the spirit, and then pray about it and see how you feel. That is the best way to change peoples' minds about this issue in relation to the bible.
I don't think America is ready to stop altogether, but I what I am really trying to stop is the people who listen to Dobson and that Lessin. I want them to question the attitude that they should hit their kids until they can't stop crying for even trivial matters. google Open Letter to Roy Lessin
In fact, the Bible says the exact opposite, it says He punishes those he loves. Shouldn't we be like God/Jesus and punish those we love? Especially our children.
I don't even like to discuss this topic with people like the person who created this video because I can almost guarantee that they believe that everything after Christ came is happy and nothing really matters anymore. There is no such thing as God's rath, etc. etc. The scripture most people believing this overlook says God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The only difference is that we are forgiven sinners. It does not mean that God will not "punish" you, His children.
Children are innocent. We should not hurt them. If we MUST punish them for a wrongdoing, we should not do it through pain, degredation, or humiliation, but through taking of privilidges, extra work, time outs away from friends and others, and logical consequences. My children will not grow up fearing my hand or a belt, like I was when I was little.
Uh just FYI All through Psalms and Proverbs it talks about "Spare the ROD, spoil the child and if anyone denies the ROD of correctin they will shame their mother. Even after Jesus came to die for our sins the church would STONE children that defied their parents. So I do believe that spanking a child is the will of God. Granted that does not mean punching their face in, burning and bruising severelly.
As you point out, they stoned their kids, but we don't do that anymore. and hitting wasn't reserved for children, it was used on adults as well, yet we are so hypocritical as to say as adults that we can hit the little children but not be hit ourselves. To reserve rod for kids is cherry-picking, and it wasn't spanking it was beating.
I think the bible points out what happened to Solomon and to his children, Rehaboam and Jeraboam, who destroyed Solomon's kingdom. why follow Solomon's example?
I never said we couldnt be hit as adults. But as God disciplines his children we are to discipline ours so that they will make right choices as they grow. Spanking can be very humiliating to an adult/teen and they focus on that rather then what they have done wrong which it is suggested that you stop around 12 to 14, some parents stop sooner and some later some never start. My point is that Spanking is and should be allowed to stay as a possible punishment (not the only punishment) for a child
Christ showed us how he chastises his disciples; I think followers of Christ need to follow the example he set while he was here rather than what Solomon.
That goes double since Solomon fell from grace and his sons turned out rotten, as the Bible makes perfectly clear : )
Christ also never said NOT to spank. You said before that I was being hypocritical, but to say that only one half of the Bible is true is hypocritical in itself Christ showed us how to treat litle children yes but at the same time no child in the Bible tried to bite him Solomon was not the only one to talk about "The rod" Mosas as well. and even though when Christ came to take our sins he did not erase what the old testament said he simply allowed for us to have a 1 on 1relationship with God.
Christ fulfilled the old test, not erased it. He corrected misunderstanding
I do think it is hypocritical of us as adults to keep the idea of hitting children from the old test but then not follow the Law of Moses, or kill adulterers, or cut off hands.
We pick the part that is tough on kids but disregaurd the parts that is tough on adults.
Also, the hitting kids in old test isn't "spanking." The bible never describes what we call spanking, even if you use a stick.
In addition, you say Christ never said not to spank, yet we have a perfect example of how he corrects those he loves.
Remember that adults were subject to being whipped or beaten as well, but Christ chastises, and that is the word, chastise, his disciples without hitting them. He uses the rod of his mouth.
If we are to be called Christians, then should we not follow Christ's example?
Part of being a teacher is not only to tell what not to do but to also demonstrate what to do.
I'm not even sure how much he lost his temper when driving the merchants out. This is the one and only instance pro-spankers can point to of Christ hitting anyone, and I don't see any indication that these merchants were a bunch of children.
It talks of him driving them out, yet I see no description of him cornering any and beating them. It seems as if he overturned the tables and chased them out, but we really need more description to know what all happened.
Jesus wouldn't even hit a full grown man, let alone a child. It is never worth it to hit a child just because they make a mistake and there's always a better way to handle it. Jesus is truly the best role model anyone could ever look up to. Don't get me wrong, no human on the face of this earth can ever be Jesus. But we can always follow his example to make our lives better.
Excellently said! Those who would call themselves Christian need to be following the examples set by Christ himself.
There is a video specifically arguing that Christ would hit children
"Would Jesus spank a child?"
I had a few things to point out to him.
Also check my other vid, Rhymes and Reasons for Christian Parents
The writing is fast at first, so you might have to pause it, but I just meant to skim some of the advice out there that is for beating kids by Lessing, Tripp, ect
The bible has much ,much more references to corporal punishment being used on adults then it does children. yet in churches today only children are recommended to be hit. any way you slice it . this is still 100% hipocracy! plain and simple .
Can anybody offer sources on the lack of corporal punishment and the correlation to selfish or 'reckless' behavior later in adulthood? Reason being, we remember a neighbor who had a daughter, and we continually heard this eight-year-old whining and bellyaching at the drop of a hat on their fenced-in property, seemingly just to get her way. It became a standard behavior for this little girl. Today, some adults act so selfishly and rudely, perhaps indicating no corporal punishment .
wThat might be difficult seeing as how the vast majority of parents still spanked through the 80's and 90's. I forget if the latest stat I found on that was for 2003 or 2004, but either 96% or 98% in the survey said they still spanked.
check the religioustolerance website, hot topics, spanking, main page, for studies. Specifically survey on inmates that found nearly all of them had c.p. I'm not finding it, but check Mauer wallerstein or McMillian for stats on dropouts and mental illness.
in 1 corinthians 4:21 paul said "shall i come at you with a rod,or insted in love and the spirit of meekness" This verse makes a clear distinction that coming at somone with a rod is in fact the opposite of love.
Like i said my dad was a pastor and spanked me as a child i was told that it was Gods will for my parents to hit me. I was shown a few verses from the old testiment and i was expected to accept it and never question it. This almost made me turn away from God.I couldnt understand how any loving God would want to physically hurt children. Then God started showing me the truth through his word. I love christ for delivering us from this violent act.
When christ was beaten it was him taking our chastisment for us so we can be at peace. Im a christian my parents were pastors,i got spanked but it never worked only made me rebell. i knew what they were doing was wrong biblically so i lost all respect in looking up to them as a positive influence. I raise my daughter by the new testiment and have had nothing but success every teacher she has had says she is the best behaved one in the class. Thank you for making this video
Great points! To take the rod versus out of context to justify spanking is a huge misuse of bible, and to pick out those versus to justify spanking then ignore stoning of both children for disobedience and adults for impropriety is massive cherry-picking. Lets take the part we find socially acceptable, say its mandatory, then ignore the rest!
Also, if you compare the word shebet with choter, you find that Solomon said hit criminals with choter (literal stick) but kids with shebet.
You will find that shebet was a huge staff representing authority as a tribe leader or patriarch. The word is used figuratively to refer to the Messiah, and from Dueteronomy, hitting a slave with it literally could kill him.
So using shebet on kids without any risk of killing them must be figurative for authority. Solomon used a literal word for switch, choter, to refer to criminals, so he obviously knew the difference.
Also, I wouldn't model parenting after him, just look at Rehaboam!
The library of Canada in Ontario, like our library of congress, still carries copies of Dobson's New Dare. The yahoo group nopaddle is having everyone send comments to them about the book, that it instructs parents to break Canadian law according to their supreme court's ruling that striking infants under two with sticks, rulers, belts, ect. does not qualify as "reasonable force."
This book is one example of the type of best-selling expert advice I am working against.
In the new testiment jesus said "it is better to have a limestone tied around your neck and cast into the sea as to offend one of these little ones" paul said "parents provoke not your children to wrath and anger" The new testiment also teaches that the body is the temple of the holy spirit and to not bring any harm against it.when explaining why christ took all the beatings on the cross before his death the bible says"the chastisement of our peace was upon him" cont.
The old testiment was not for spanking children it was for beatings.Nowhere is there a differnce between the 2 mentioned. Nowhere does it say that it is permissable to exchange a rod for a belt,switch,or paddle..ect. This lack of regulation proves that the beatings were in fact beatings. These beatings were so brutal that the next step when the beatings didnt work was to stone the child to death. How can some christians ignore the stoning part. this makes no biblical sense.cont.
My pastors wife teaches that parents should never beat their children as discipline, not even spank them, she did paddled her children and taught it and now totally regrets, she says the rod is for hitting the wolf, not the child. By the way I think those paddles with biblical passages are horrifying
I wonder if they followed the same route that Clay Clarkson did. He was a writer encouraging and justifying biblical spanking, the rod, and all of that, until something about it didn't seem right to him. Maybe it was his conscience. So, he went to the bible to find proof, to find actions by Christ to back up biblical spanking, and went back to the hebrew wording. He found that nothing Christ did encourages treating children this way, and the original hebrew doesn't back up spanking at all.
ok im pretty lazy so im not going to read all of that. But I still think spanking your child has nothing to do with Jesus. Sure, you can bring him into the situation. But then again, you can bring anybody into the situation. Satan, God, Elmo. Just because some believe that and other follow it. Doesnt mean it's true. And it depends how hard you beat them. Not everyone who is beaten turns "evil" as your trying to say from my perspective. It's life that changes you not a spanking. I got off topic:P
I guess what I am trying to say is that I saw how many of these pro-spanking childcare experts tried to use little pieces of old testament to justify truly harsh discipline of little children and I had to point out that we don't go by many old testament laws and we should apply what Jesus taught if we are to use the bible to promote a type of discipline.
Involve Jesus? Actually I was doing some research into what some of these parenting gurus who promote spanking were saying and found out that many were pushing different variations of what they called biblical spanking. I listed some of these people in the description. When I read what these people proposed,like whipping your child until they can't stop crying, and then saying it was like when Jesus chased the merchants out of church, I had to point out how Jesus actually treated children
all through the old testiment punishment was inflicted on people either by the government or by god himself this did nothing positive for the spirit of the people in fact people spirits got worse and worse because of it .this was allowed to make the world realize its need for a savior. Jesus came and taught spirituality a concept never before understood. He taught love, forgiveness, compasion, mercy. for this is the only state that the spirit can heal and come into balance.
atterolevad 3 months ago
LOL
Jesus looked more like the muslims they are bombing. He certainly isnt white and it is about time your false idols painted a more realistic looking Jesus,
This white jesus thing is racist, cant you see that?
Rand0mManic 4 months ago
My religion is kindness. And I have no problem with my children or the children I teach. Kindness goes way beyond what punishment can accomplish. The relationship is everything. When the parenting is too strict and severe the relationship is lost.
ohsnap31 5 months ago
You ppl don't know anything, sometimes the kids need to be spanked. I've never been but now I think that i need it, it would have stop me of making some mistakes! And don't get me wrong I'm not talking about beating the crap out of your child!
justforeveryoung 9 months ago
@justforeveryoung If you really beleived that you needed to be spanked then why not submit yourself to a spanking now. After all what is good for the goose is good for the gander so go for it your never to old to be disciplined.
davluc1 8 months ago
U dnt kno what you're talking about so stay of this physical or corporal punshment on children.
shonebon 10 months ago
all kids are different when it comes to discipline
babygirl83780 10 months ago
Honestly I don't think that spanking a child is abusive or an act of volence, but I do belive there are parents out there who cross the line and do abuse their children. A a Christian both my husband and I agree when we have children we will use spanking as a form of punishment, but it will always be the last resort if other punishments don't work. Two of the pastors from my former church also talked openly in sermons about spanking their children. Are you going to tell me my PASTORS were wrong
83iamme 10 months ago
@83iamme Your pastors were wrong.
MrWomanpower 10 months ago
@83iamme Your "pastors" are wrong and there are plenty out there who should not be in the ministry business. Also, I really hope you consider refraining from using any physical force on your children such as spanking. It sends a mixed message and shows a lack of control on your part. Plus, you can cause long term emotional damage to your child that could lead to anxiety disorders, depression and suicide. Spanking: it violates the child and it violates the law. Please, don't do it! :)
lakebay972 10 months ago
In hebrews 12:09-10 we see a comparison being done between the chastising of our flesh by our earthly fathers and the non-violent chastising of God unto his children. in verse 10 it shows that the only form of chastisment that is profitable to the one receiving it is that which comes from God while that done unto our flesh by our fathers is not profitable to us but only feeds the pleasures of those that inflict it !
guidav123 1 year ago
I don't like anybody saying bad things about Dr. Dobson or Pastor John Hagee. They know Jesus
WTREPUBLICAN 1 year ago
@TheUnknownchicken I have heard that argument but the truth is that proverbs does say to "beat " them with the rod. however i do totally agree with you that kids need discipline and need to be taught that there are consequences for their actions. but never through violent means. People seem to get so caught up in salomon's method that they forget the basic truth of the principal of it all.
guidav123 1 year ago
@TheUnknownchicken what are you talking about? Im against corporal punishment all together there is no difference pointed out anywhere in scripture to lead one to the conclusion that there is some imaginary line somewhere between "discipline" as you call it and abuse. All forms of corpral punishment was allowed in the old testiment and all forms are discouraged in the new testiment.
guidav123 1 year ago
Corporal punishment is full of hipocracy and is not peacful or merciful and definitley not gentle so it can not be considered wisdom according to the new testiment's definition of wisdom. james 3:17-18 but the wisdom that is from above is first pure,then peaceable, gentle,and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hipocracy. and the fruite of the riteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
guidav123 1 year ago
No one should be hit, except in a necessary case of self defense. Parents who claim they are hitting their children because the bible says so, are liars. They do not sacrifice two turtles every time they menstruate, they do not stone their neighbors if they see them leaving for work on a Sunday morning, they do not kill everyone in town if they see someone praying at a different church though the bible demands all these things. Do not use the bible as an excuse for your poor parenting skills.
drgregsgurl 1 year ago
people need to realize that we are held to a different standard during the grace period . One can not justify any form of violence by anything that happened before or after the grace period.
atterolevad 1 year ago
violence deserves no respect. What kind of parent would want to teach there children to respect violence?
atterolevad 1 year ago 10
@atterolevad
Hmmm.. Masochists?
spartanmfh 1 year ago
people need tro understand that there is a totally different standard of conduct expected of christians during the grace period. One can not justify vilence during the grace period by anything before the grace period(old testiment) or after the grace period(end times) christ non-violent example is the only influence over our actions and thoughts.
guidav123 1 year ago
when I was young my mom used to spank me if I disobeyed. but she wouldn't BEAT me. there's a diference.
WariiorWolf 2 years ago
@WariiorWolf
100 years ago, wives were chastized, not beaten. Physical chastizement of an arrent and disrespectful wife was the husband's alibi. Also, oddly enough, The Bible was used and twisted to justify this behavior. Husbands felt it was within their Christian duty to discipline his wife. There's a difference. I find it strange that a book that teaches peace (The Bible) is being used and twisted to justify the beating of children today. Now it is a crime to batter wives.
generalcrash777 2 years ago
Where did you get the audio clip the the kid being beaten?
HUSKY57887 2 years ago
The file is called, "The Ugly Sounds of a Spanking."
generalcrash777 2 years ago
there are many different interpretations of many things in the bible . This is why we have so many different denominations. and even within those denominations individual beleifs vary greatly on many things. it disgust me to think that so many people think that the christian community is all pro-spanking, we are not. there are lots and lots of christians that have seen the truth through scripture that spankings are not of GOd and are wrong. so stop thinking spankings are a christian practice.
guidav123 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:
Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.
Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.
Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:
Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,
The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,
NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.
PhDeverit 2 years ago
Wow, these are some very good points, especially the one about the rod being used to guide sheep, not hit them.
steffyb528 2 years ago
I want to point out the reason Jesus didn't say to stone the adulterous woman was because of the vile double-standard of trying to execute ONLY the woman-the weaker sex-and NOT the man. There is no indication He wouldn't have said to proceed as long as the MAN was executed as well. One pastor I grew up with said the men wanted only the woman killed because of a sick "boys will be boys" philosophy. Another pastor said they were simply trying to test Jesus so they could try to make Him look bad
dbhma7 2 years ago
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ochenta16 2 years ago
even satanists won't use a rod on their kids.
they use their disco sticks.
and hence, incest was invented.
asenboi 2 years ago
Sorry about flagging this video. Was not the video I was aiming at.
I would like to retract the flag if possible, and again I am sorry.
TRISPIRIT 2 years ago
hen you default to hitting your kids you have failed in life.
tpcrb 2 years ago
I'm glad Prospank will pray FOR us, as he/she/it will be preying ON his/her/its children. What these crazy fundies need is a good ol' fashioned POGROM.
buzzed85013 2 years ago 2
what gets me is the stubborness of the pro-spanker. even after there children turn out horrible and grow up and say that it did nothing positive for them the parent still beleives they did no wrong becouse they are convinced that it is GOds perfect plan for raising children. so tell me when it doesnt work who do you blame the child or God? because lord forbid you blame your interpretation of the scripture.
guidav123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
REPENT! The Bible is clear "THE ROD AND REPROOF"! REPENT for destroying our families and schools with your nonsense before its too late! I will be praying for you.
Prospank 2 years ago
I cannot repent of following Christ's model of how to treat other people, and that includes children, for I know in my heart He was correct.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
mormongirl04 2 years ago
I agree with the creator of the video. "But whoso shall aoffend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. "
Matthew 18:6
I believe spanking would fall under "offending".
mormongirl04 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@EuphemiseThis So when Jesus in John 2:15 "made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables" I guess he was making the same example you talked about. Proverbs 13:24 is clear when it say "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."
BroskieJeanCo 1 year ago
Comment removed
fabioKJV1611 1 year ago
@Prospank
The true Jesus Christ never taught anyone to determine right from wrong based on feelings or "in their hearts". Jeremiah told human heart is deceitful abouve all things and desperately wicked (Jer 17:9).
The true Jesus Christ never softened the Scriptures to please the crowd.
Obey Jesus Christ, obey the Holy Scriptures.
The Bible is right, the TV "specialists" are wrong. Repent, TV worshipers!
fabioKJV1611 1 year ago
@Prospank The "ROD" is from the OLD Testament. Christians are not supposed to follow Old Testament laws. If you do follow the Old Testament, then you also beat your servants.
MrWomanpower 10 months ago
Proverbs 29:15 The rod of correction gives wisdom, but a child left to himself causes shame to his mother. Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child: the rod of discipline drives it far from him. Proverbs 13:24 One who spares the rod hates his son, but one who loves him is careful to discipline him.
TheWorldpics 2 years ago
I don't debate that one must go to the failure Solomon and his Proverbs to find support for hitting kids.
The thing is that the bible makes is clear that Solomon failed and so did his children. I would consider it much wiser to follow the example of Jesus Christ. : )
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Solomon did not obey his proverbs. He slept with many women, etc. the Proverbs say not to. The one speaking the Proverbs in WISDOM, Wisdom is another name for Jesus Christ. So Jesus Christ and NOT Solomon inspired Proverbs which sadly Solomon and you do not follow!
REPENT!
TheWorldpics 2 years ago
unfortunately, the proverbs were sayings that Solomon said and people passed down for 200 years by word of mouth before they were recorded under King Hezekiah, they did not fall from the sky, nor is there any gaurantee that they were recorded accurately.
What I do know is that when Christ was asked to pass old test judgement on the aduleress, he asked who there was sinless enough to condemn her, and found no one. Then he, who had authority to judge, let her go.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
In addition, even if you believe proverbs to be perfect from Christ himself, then you are still incorrect. For the rod that he mentions is shebet, which is the staff of authority and would have to be symbolic, is sometimes used to refer to Christ, and is like much of proverbs metaphor or hyperbole, for when Proverbs speaks of beating criminals, it uses the literal word for stick or switch, choter. So if Solomon had that word and used shebet instead for kids that should tell u something
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Comment removed
TRISPIRIT 2 years ago
I believe Jesus did this to use a teachable moment for the crowd, not to condone punishment.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago 2
I agree, he appears to be illustrating that the judgement of god would be much harsher on those who knew the truth and did not follow it or turned away from God once they knew him.
I hadn't been presented with this one in relation to hitting kids before, which may be because it is said to the adult apostles about judgement, presumably once one's life is over. He talks about us being taken by surprise by the return of our master, we are caught by deat as well like a thief that comes to take
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Hmmmm... repent for NOT hitting innocent young children... You know, children are as pure as angels.
mormongirl04 2 years ago
Jesus allows for hitting, look at Luke 12:47-48.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago
Perhaps we should go Old Testament on our children instead of spanking them? After all, that's what Jesus/God did.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago
which makes it quite obvious that what we call spanking is not actually following the old testament.
I think you may have inadvertenty just realized something.
Following what is prescribed in the old testament and spanking are not the same thing.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Firstly, if you believe Jesus and God are one then continue reading. Secondly, if you believe God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, continuing reading. If you do not agree with these statements do yourself a favor and stop reading now and start with those two concepts before tackling the concept of Jesus and corporal punishment. The fact is Jesus/God did things that were a lot worse than "hitting" someone. God destroyed temples, turned people to salt, and made one son become fish bait.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago
When Jesus came to earth, he set the perfect example for us to follow. I believe Christians ought to start by following THAT example.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
See other post...Luke 12:47-48, a parable Jesus' best teaching practice.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago 2
If a kid is repeatedly tries to touch a stove chances are until the child realizes that there is a painful consequence to touching that stove he will keep trying, if the lesson learned is a painful one then it has a better chance of sticking with them.
Lydakid 2 years ago
That is called natural or logical consequences. Yes, people and children can learn from logical consequences. In fact these, as well as time-outs, loss of priveleges, ect. have been found to be just as effective in modifying behavior as spanking by people who wanted to justify spanking, like the researcher Larzelere, for example.
There is a wealth of studies by both pro and anti spanking researchers at religious tolerance org all one word, insert period, you know the drill
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
I suppose this is one thing that we'll wait and see what God says when we reach Heaven and Just agree to disagree.. the punishments listed above does not always work, neither does spankng sometimes I agree. And as I said before Spanking adults is humilating and not effective although a lot of wrong doings me and my siblings learned from were those we were spanked for. I agree you have valid point and appreciate your video and input. and I'm sure your kids will enjoy not having to be spanked :-)
Lydakid 2 years ago
I think best thing to do is get into the spirit, and then pray about it and see how you feel. That is the best way to change peoples' minds about this issue in relation to the bible.
I don't think America is ready to stop altogether, but I what I am really trying to stop is the people who listen to Dobson and that Lessin. I want them to question the attitude that they should hit their kids until they can't stop crying for even trivial matters. google Open Letter to Roy Lessin
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
In fact, the Bible says the exact opposite, it says He punishes those he loves. Shouldn't we be like God/Jesus and punish those we love? Especially our children.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago
Jesus DOES chastise the apostles on several occasions. However, he doesn't hit them does he?
If he could correct his followers without hitting them, maybe we should learn from him and follow his example.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
I don't even like to discuss this topic with people like the person who created this video because I can almost guarantee that they believe that everything after Christ came is happy and nothing really matters anymore. There is no such thing as God's rath, etc. etc. The scripture most people believing this overlook says God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The only difference is that we are forgiven sinners. It does not mean that God will not "punish" you, His children.
TheAkire0307 2 years ago
That is a very nice strawman argument to set up and then tear down,
but it does little to prove that solomon was a good example to follow when he and his children failed,
nor does it do much to support the idea that hitting children is following any example Christ ever set.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Children are innocent. We should not hurt them. If we MUST punish them for a wrongdoing, we should not do it through pain, degredation, or humiliation, but through taking of privilidges, extra work, time outs away from friends and others, and logical consequences. My children will not grow up fearing my hand or a belt, like I was when I was little.
mormongirl04 2 years ago
of fuck you, you abused thing.
learn to forget your past and live luxury.
asenboi 2 years ago
There is no need for that kind of language on here. This is a Christian video that is posted to websites.
mormongirl04 2 years ago
Uh just FYI All through Psalms and Proverbs it talks about "Spare the ROD, spoil the child and if anyone denies the ROD of correctin they will shame their mother. Even after Jesus came to die for our sins the church would STONE children that defied their parents. So I do believe that spanking a child is the will of God. Granted that does not mean punching their face in, burning and bruising severelly.
Lydakid 2 years ago
As you point out, they stoned their kids, but we don't do that anymore. and hitting wasn't reserved for children, it was used on adults as well, yet we are so hypocritical as to say as adults that we can hit the little children but not be hit ourselves. To reserve rod for kids is cherry-picking, and it wasn't spanking it was beating.
I think the bible points out what happened to Solomon and to his children, Rehaboam and Jeraboam, who destroyed Solomon's kingdom. why follow Solomon's example?
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
I never said we couldnt be hit as adults. But as God disciplines his children we are to discipline ours so that they will make right choices as they grow. Spanking can be very humiliating to an adult/teen and they focus on that rather then what they have done wrong which it is suggested that you stop around 12 to 14, some parents stop sooner and some later some never start. My point is that Spanking is and should be allowed to stay as a possible punishment (not the only punishment) for a child
Lydakid 2 years ago
Christ showed us how he chastises his disciples; I think followers of Christ need to follow the example he set while he was here rather than what Solomon.
That goes double since Solomon fell from grace and his sons turned out rotten, as the Bible makes perfectly clear : )
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Christ also never said NOT to spank. You said before that I was being hypocritical, but to say that only one half of the Bible is true is hypocritical in itself Christ showed us how to treat litle children yes but at the same time no child in the Bible tried to bite him Solomon was not the only one to talk about "The rod" Mosas as well. and even though when Christ came to take our sins he did not erase what the old testament said he simply allowed for us to have a 1 on 1relationship with God.
Lydakid 2 years ago
oops removed it.
Christ fulfilled the old test, not erased it. He corrected misunderstanding
I do think it is hypocritical of us as adults to keep the idea of hitting children from the old test but then not follow the Law of Moses, or kill adulterers, or cut off hands.
We pick the part that is tough on kids but disregaurd the parts that is tough on adults.
Also, the hitting kids in old test isn't "spanking." The bible never describes what we call spanking, even if you use a stick.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
In addition, you say Christ never said not to spank, yet we have a perfect example of how he corrects those he loves.
Remember that adults were subject to being whipped or beaten as well, but Christ chastises, and that is the word, chastise, his disciples without hitting them. He uses the rod of his mouth.
If we are to be called Christians, then should we not follow Christ's example?
Part of being a teacher is not only to tell what not to do but to also demonstrate what to do.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
Comment removed
TRISPIRIT 2 years ago
Jesus had never hit a child, nor had he turned them away. Didn't it say in one story that Jesus said, "Suffer the little children unto me"?
Sure Jesus lost his temper when he arrived at the temple and drove the money makers out, but it was for a good reason.
But hitting a child because it's Gods way? No, just no.
Veggirl7 2 years ago 2
I'm not even sure how much he lost his temper when driving the merchants out. This is the one and only instance pro-spankers can point to of Christ hitting anyone, and I don't see any indication that these merchants were a bunch of children.
It talks of him driving them out, yet I see no description of him cornering any and beating them. It seems as if he overturned the tables and chased them out, but we really need more description to know what all happened.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
INCREDIBLE VIDEO!!!!!!!!
Jesus wouldn't even hit a full grown man, let alone a child. It is never worth it to hit a child just because they make a mistake and there's always a better way to handle it. Jesus is truly the best role model anyone could ever look up to. Don't get me wrong, no human on the face of this earth can ever be Jesus. But we can always follow his example to make our lives better.
GenX6887 2 years ago
Excellently said! Those who would call themselves Christian need to be following the examples set by Christ himself.
There is a video specifically arguing that Christ would hit children
"Would Jesus spank a child?"
I had a few things to point out to him.
Also check my other vid, Rhymes and Reasons for Christian Parents
The writing is fast at first, so you might have to pause it, but I just meant to skim some of the advice out there that is for beating kids by Lessing, Tripp, ect
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
The bible has much ,much more references to corporal punishment being used on adults then it does children. yet in churches today only children are recommended to be hit. any way you slice it . this is still 100% hipocracy! plain and simple .
guidav123 2 years ago 2
Can anybody offer sources on the lack of corporal punishment and the correlation to selfish or 'reckless' behavior later in adulthood? Reason being, we remember a neighbor who had a daughter, and we continually heard this eight-year-old whining and bellyaching at the drop of a hat on their fenced-in property, seemingly just to get her way. It became a standard behavior for this little girl. Today, some adults act so selfishly and rudely, perhaps indicating no corporal punishment .
GodChristLord 2 years ago
wThat might be difficult seeing as how the vast majority of parents still spanked through the 80's and 90's. I forget if the latest stat I found on that was for 2003 or 2004, but either 96% or 98% in the survey said they still spanked.
check the religioustolerance website, hot topics, spanking, main page, for studies. Specifically survey on inmates that found nearly all of them had c.p. I'm not finding it, but check Mauer wallerstein or McMillian for stats on dropouts and mental illness.
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
I g rew up in a private catholic between the sexual abuse & violence from the nuns they can all rot in hell.
waitingtolive 2 years ago
Do you mean a private catholic school or a convent?
EuphemiseThis 2 years ago
The school was next to the church & convent
waitingtolive 2 years ago
1 john 4:18 There is no fear in love:but perfect love casteth out fear:because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
guidav123 2 years ago
in 1 corinthians 4:21 paul said "shall i come at you with a rod,or insted in love and the spirit of meekness" This verse makes a clear distinction that coming at somone with a rod is in fact the opposite of love.
guidav123 3 years ago
Like i said my dad was a pastor and spanked me as a child i was told that it was Gods will for my parents to hit me. I was shown a few verses from the old testiment and i was expected to accept it and never question it. This almost made me turn away from God.I couldnt understand how any loving God would want to physically hurt children. Then God started showing me the truth through his word. I love christ for delivering us from this violent act.
guidav123 3 years ago
When christ was beaten it was him taking our chastisment for us so we can be at peace. Im a christian my parents were pastors,i got spanked but it never worked only made me rebell. i knew what they were doing was wrong biblically so i lost all respect in looking up to them as a positive influence. I raise my daughter by the new testiment and have had nothing but success every teacher she has had says she is the best behaved one in the class. Thank you for making this video
guidav123 3 years ago
Great points! To take the rod versus out of context to justify spanking is a huge misuse of bible, and to pick out those versus to justify spanking then ignore stoning of both children for disobedience and adults for impropriety is massive cherry-picking. Lets take the part we find socially acceptable, say its mandatory, then ignore the rest!
Also, if you compare the word shebet with choter, you find that Solomon said hit criminals with choter (literal stick) but kids with shebet.
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago
You will find that shebet was a huge staff representing authority as a tribe leader or patriarch. The word is used figuratively to refer to the Messiah, and from Dueteronomy, hitting a slave with it literally could kill him.
So using shebet on kids without any risk of killing them must be figurative for authority. Solomon used a literal word for switch, choter, to refer to criminals, so he obviously knew the difference.
Also, I wouldn't model parenting after him, just look at Rehaboam!
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago
its great to finally find a christian that aggrees with my view points on this subject. God bless you.
guidav123 3 years ago
The library of Canada in Ontario, like our library of congress, still carries copies of Dobson's New Dare. The yahoo group nopaddle is having everyone send comments to them about the book, that it instructs parents to break Canadian law according to their supreme court's ruling that striking infants under two with sticks, rulers, belts, ect. does not qualify as "reasonable force."
This book is one example of the type of best-selling expert advice I am working against.
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago
In the new testiment jesus said "it is better to have a limestone tied around your neck and cast into the sea as to offend one of these little ones" paul said "parents provoke not your children to wrath and anger" The new testiment also teaches that the body is the temple of the holy spirit and to not bring any harm against it.when explaining why christ took all the beatings on the cross before his death the bible says"the chastisement of our peace was upon him" cont.
guidav123 3 years ago
The old testiment was not for spanking children it was for beatings.Nowhere is there a differnce between the 2 mentioned. Nowhere does it say that it is permissable to exchange a rod for a belt,switch,or paddle..ect. This lack of regulation proves that the beatings were in fact beatings. These beatings were so brutal that the next step when the beatings didnt work was to stone the child to death. How can some christians ignore the stoning part. this makes no biblical sense.cont.
guidav123 3 years ago
My pastors wife teaches that parents should never beat their children as discipline, not even spank them, she did paddled her children and taught it and now totally regrets, she says the rod is for hitting the wolf, not the child. By the way I think those paddles with biblical passages are horrifying
andyyy00087 3 years ago
I wonder if they followed the same route that Clay Clarkson did. He was a writer encouraging and justifying biblical spanking, the rod, and all of that, until something about it didn't seem right to him. Maybe it was his conscience. So, he went to the bible to find proof, to find actions by Christ to back up biblical spanking, and went back to the hebrew wording. He found that nothing Christ did encourages treating children this way, and the original hebrew doesn't back up spanking at all.
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago
ok im pretty lazy so im not going to read all of that. But I still think spanking your child has nothing to do with Jesus. Sure, you can bring him into the situation. But then again, you can bring anybody into the situation. Satan, God, Elmo. Just because some believe that and other follow it. Doesnt mean it's true. And it depends how hard you beat them. Not everyone who is beaten turns "evil" as your trying to say from my perspective. It's life that changes you not a spanking. I got off topic:P
Icecoldkila15 3 years ago
I guess what I am trying to say is that I saw how many of these pro-spanking childcare experts tried to use little pieces of old testament to justify truly harsh discipline of little children and I had to point out that we don't go by many old testament laws and we should apply what Jesus taught if we are to use the bible to promote a type of discipline.
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago
O.. ok then.
Icecoldkila15 3 years ago
Did you have to envolv him. Like seriously. That's between you and your child.
Icecoldkila15 3 years ago
Involve Jesus? Actually I was doing some research into what some of these parenting gurus who promote spanking were saying and found out that many were pushing different variations of what they called biblical spanking. I listed some of these people in the description. When I read what these people proposed,like whipping your child until they can't stop crying, and then saying it was like when Jesus chased the merchants out of church, I had to point out how Jesus actually treated children
EuphemiseThis 3 years ago