22. With Will Federer - Moderate Muslims

[shahroor18]

the deffrence is obviouse and somewhat expected

relegin is an powerfull tool to ensure political status

the deffrence that am pointing out is that prophits didnt really seek power

regardles of weither they were from god or not

even if they weren't i cant help but notice that their followers did what prophets didnt do

and it's really very easy to say that they said somthing that goes well with ones alterior motives

[shahroor18]

i can accept atheist saying anything about Islam

even if they are as ignorant about islam as this guy

but Christians ! of all people !!!

we have a saying here :

if your house is made out of glass, don't be throwing stones at people

[craftedashes]

@shahroor18 Show me the glass... Show me what has ever been proven wrong in the word of God, the Bible.

[NaturalMiracleMan]

Moderate Christians believe that the world will submit to Yahweh, even if it's at the end of the world, so what is the difference?

[craftedashes]

Bible believing Christians know that most will NOT submit to Jesus but it is our duty to tell (thru voice & not violence) the world about Christ and His forgiveness then during the tribulation God Himself will fight, not the Christians. Islam believes that it is their duty to offer a message of uncertain salvation through a false god Allah and when you refuse you are to be killed. The key diff. here is Christ will "fight" for Himself and the demons Allah/Muhammad must kill for converts.

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@craftedashes

Actually, Christians have historically been just as able and willing to be as violent and cruel as any Muslim toward anyone who doesn't agree with the current establishment's views of doctrine and dogma, so your comparison ignores this fact. Christians have killed those who refuse for centuries.

Also, it is only out of bias that you refer to "Allah/Muhammad" as "demons." Technically, the Muslims worship the same god that "Bible believing Christians do."

cont.

[craftedashes]

@NaturalMiracleMan

Honestly, they do not worship the same God. If it where the same we would have the same writings, beliefs and traditions. There is only one God... Isaiah 44:6; John 14:6; etc...

But you are right that many professing "christians" have committed violent acts. In no situation that you mentioned were they following the Bible, so they were wrong. The difference is that Muslims are following their holy writings when they commit their violence. How is this a god of peace?

[NaturalMiracleMan]

You write, "If it where the same we would have the same writings, beliefs and traditions."

If that is true, then Christians and Jews do not have the same god, since their sets of holy texts, beliefs, and traditions are so far apart. Obviously, what you said isn't true, for Paul, himself, acknowledges that the Jews believe in the same god despite these differences in view. The same is true of Muslims who accept the Hebrew and Christian scriptures as true.

cont.

[NaturalMiracleMan]

Also, when the Christians were burning witches to death and killing blasphemers, the Old Testament code of law (a code of laws that their god himself gave to humanity) backed them up completely.

I watched the video you suggested, and I read your blog. Neither of them were convincing in the slightest. However, I think I'll move my response to the idea they both present to your blog instead of posting post after post about them here.

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@craftedashes

Also, why would your god fight nonbelievers like myself when he is supposedly so incredibly powerful? Doesn't seem like much of a fight to be had, and that question hearkens to the problem of evil's existence in the world, if your god does exist.

Also, my first comment's original point was about the world submitting to Allah versus the world submitting to Yahweh. I merely pointed out that the characteristic of submission to god is shared by Christianity and Islam.

[shahroor18]

@NaturalMiracleMan of course am not gonna disagree with you that most Muslims actually think that there should be submission to god and i think same thing applies to Christians so far so good god is invisible it's when you get a human on earth telling you what god wants priests, pops ,imams ... and thus you get to the point where you can do anything Muslims and Christians don't hate and kill infidels, GOD does and they don't hate homosexuals GOD does and GOD want you to blow people up

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@shahroor18

The invisible and the non-existent look very similar, which is the problem when it comes to theistic belief systems like Christianity and Islam. I hope you realize that the "holy" books of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were all written by men who claimed divine authority. What sets these authors apart from the popes, bishops, priests, pastors, imams, and rabbis who tell us to hate and kill infidels, blow people up, hat homosexuals, etc?

cont.

[shahroor18]

@NaturalMiracleMan

the answer to the last question is , politics?

now since your not relegious you know that relegions evolve over time

that means the relegion changes and doesnt just depend on that one author

for christians they have pastors and preists who claim a connection with god

here in islam we have a more clever way

there is the quraan they cant change it so simply thiel add extra books

and claim that they are just as important

and use it for politics

cont>>>

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@shahroor18

And you don't think that the authors of the Old Testament had politics in mind? I know that belief systems evolve over time, and both Christianity and Islam have certainly changed over time.

Plus, the books of the Bible were changed, such as the Pentateuch. Also, the Christians added extra books on to the Hebrew Scriptures, claiming them to be just as important. And the Christians have used the Bible as a political tool for centuries.

cont.

[shahroor18]

@shahroor18

prophets usually do not have any interest in power

it just happens for them

Mohammad was in madenah for 10 years he could've invaded

the whole area at that time especially since it was done after him in about 10 years

the casualty of all the wars that Mohammad did combined was little over 200, that's it

wars after him took a different approach, it was about eliminating the other side

about 36 years after his death resulted in the death of 30000 both sides muslims

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@shahroor18

Your assertion regarding prophets and power is baseless.

Jesus didn't kill many people, but his followers sure have.

You aren't giving me any real differences between the two.

[NaturalMiracleMan]

@shahroor18

Plus, those authors who wrote the Bible claim that their god commanded slavery, genocide, and burning people alive within the texts. So how can we judge more recent human holy men who claim that their gods have told them to do these things as wrong from your perspective?

[craftedashes]

@NaturalMiracleMan

Check out oneminuteapologist's video #102.

You may also look at craftedashes dot blogspot dot com., look at the post for Jan. 2, "Where will you be at 12:05 PM ?"

Thank you for your responses and questions. Look forward to talking with you more.

[halflifeproductionz]

fuck islam! they cry like a bunch of babies when anyone mocks their religion but why cry for freedom and tolerance when their the ones who need to look at themselves. i mean what kind of nonsensical idea is it that the WHOLE world will oneday become muslims? the same prophetic story goes that within the whole world will also be corruption. im so confused by these dajjal stories muslims talk about.

[ndrthrdr1]

The problem isn't the Muslims. The problem is religion. Superstitious nonsense.

[crazyliclay]

@ndrthrdr1 not all religion

[Burreyito]

Deep inside every Muslim agrees with jihad and will stand for it if they have to decide. This is not just a religion; it’s an entire change of civilization, and Jihad is believed to be the duty of every faithful Muslim.

[Burreyito]

Muslim is a religion of war. Read history, and look today to the deadly persecution of Christians in the Muslim world. They show a peaceful facade when they are the minority, this is what happens in the U.S and Europe. There is not such a thing as moderated Muslim, I challenge you all youtubers to show me a video where a well known so called moderate Muslim leader reject and condemn strongly 9/11. They don't do it because they believe in jihad.

[randharrisx]

Sounds about the same as how fundamentalist / evangelical (literalist) low intellectual caliber Christian inquisition perspectives on Wiccan, Pagan and American Indian, Jain, Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist beliefs. The Pot calling the kettle black.. what a crock! I've read the works (eg Father Thomas Merton, and other Christian Mystics who had a much clearer, deeper understanding of these other beliefs).

[babydred1976]

the lies begin as soon as federer opens his mouth,

lie #1. Muhammad divided the world into Dar al harb and dar al-islam

[shandcunt]

@babydred1976 It was Abu Hanifa yeah? and the Dar Al-Harb (House of war or House of the west) is countries where the Muslim law is not in force?

[babydred1976]

mixing truth with falsehood is a classic tactic of polemicists, "christian" missionaries, and orientalists to disseminate false information to the the unsuspecting masses. That is why this is pure nonsense.

[jihadifanclub]

This guy telling so many lies it is unreal. Muslims are fighting the West because the West has been overthrowing Muslim governments, installing dictators, exploiting natural resources and starting illegal wars all over the Muslim world. We fight to force the West to stop controlling our affairs.

[wesleytmatthews]

@jihadifanclub and is that when muslims from the poor african countries seek asylum in the west.

be a straight man and contend and not Taqqiya.

[jihadifanclub]

Are you implying that I am an immigrant because I'm not. How does America’s wealth change the fact that America's foreign policies kill and oppress millions? I have no need to lie just watch videos from the mujahideen and they will tell you its American policies that cause them to fight the US. This video is pure bull.

[babydred1976]

@wesleytmatthews i guarantee you have no idea what is taqqiya

[babydred1976]

pure and absolute nonsense

[wesleytmatthews]

@babydred1976 what if u r wrong

[babydred1976]

@wesleytmatthews trust me i'm not