Video Games R not ART! They R just GAMES! VIDEO GAMES may contain ART just like SOCCER BALL may contain ART on that BALL! That SOCCER BALL is still driven by GAMEPLAY not your ARTsy-FARTsy STORY BS!! {roll my eyes}
Stop using WORD-SMITH to twist our VIDEO GAMES into your ARTsy-FARTsy BS!! >=(
Our SOCIETY manipulated by RACIST POLITICIANS, RACIST MASS MEDIA, & RACIST CHURCHES like to SLANDER our VIDEO GAMERS as VIOLENT PEOPLE daily, but I'm going tell people this TRUTH! It sounds PARADOX, but it is TRUTH!! =/
SEARCH & READ "ADOLF HITLER's PAINTINGS"
SEARCH & READ "ART by John Wayne Gacy"
Our MASS MURDERERS, SERIAL KILLERS, & just AWFUL LOW-LIFE R really these ARTsy-FARTsy TYPE! Look at them! They can't wait to MOLEST our CHILD HOOD MEMORIES on even our VIDEO GAMING!! >=(
Our GREEDY CROOKS, FLAG-WAVING LIARS, PRO-RELIGIOUS BIGOTS, MASS MURDERERS, SERIAL KILLERS, & just AWFUL LOW-LIFE R obsessed in ART....
watch?v=cnO8zKH5s_k
VIDEO GAMES R not REAL! They R 4 FUN, yet we have these LIARS pretend that they R REAL to SCAPEGOAT our GAMERS & distract OTHERS from knowing what a SHIT that they really R....
watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY
They hated our GAMES in GAMEPLAY....
watch?v=mmMv0ceWTVQ
They won't be happy until everything is ARTsy-FARTsy like they R!! >=(
Hayao Miyazaki is POLITICAL SCIENCE major not ART major....
watch?v=qD58ZTVm7Qs
Shōji Kawamori is AERONAUTICAL ENGINEERING major not ART major either! Most Aerospace/Mechanical Engineers can DRAW way better than ARTsy-FARTsy like Jackson Pollock anyhow....
watch?v=wckZcVFLU24
Alfred Hitchcock & Stanley Kubrick never won an OSCAR, so neither did Akira Kurosawa....
watch?v=lwOswxbTFd8
ART is PRETENTIOUS & favorite word of ARTsy-FARTsy!! >=P
If HOLLYWOOD, which is control by Zion-CHRISTIAN-Gay-As-Hell-JEWS, can not even give an OSCAR toward their BEST FILM DIRECTORS such as Alfred Hitchcock, Akira Kurosawa, & more in their own FILM INDUSTRY, do U think these IDIOTS can tell another INDUSTRY how to run its own affairs!! =/
SEARCH & READ "The Evolution Of The First-Person Shooter, In One Shot"
FPS GAMEPLAY should be like this BENCHMARK (N64)....
watch?v=NRdXiUwQjiQ
VIDEO GAMES should NOT be like FILM INDUSTRY!! >=(
SEARCH & READ "Everything you need to know about the video game industry" from ubergeeek
SEARCH & READ "Get The Hell Off My Lawn: Why Bioshock Has Ruined FPS Genre For Me"
Stop WORD-SMITH BS, Jerry FAG! BIOSHOCK is CRAP from Zion-JEW Ken Levine (A System Shock WANNABE)! Doug Church is that LEGEND behind our GREAT GAMEPLAY! Give CREDIT where it is due!! {roll my eyes}
Oh, I got CENSORED by AlphaOmegaSin 4 telling him that he is one of those REVIEW CRITICS like FAT-ARSE Roger Ebert, too, not our FPS GAMERS that have to pay with our HARD-EARNED MONEY as one of our HOBBY....
watch?v=FiY2th0VEwI
Do U noticed that MASS-MEDIA always PORTRAIT our GAMERS as either some DORKY-FAT-ARSE (FUGLY) NERDS or those POT-SMOKING (can't hold a real job) HIPSTERS? If Tim Schafer's STORY BS always FLOP & John Madden series SPORT GAMES would SOLD well, what do that tells U!? =/
SEARCH & READ "Shinji Mikami" of Resident Evil (SOFTWARE)
SEARCH & READ "Min-Liang Tan" of Razer (HARDWARE)
Our VIDEO GAME DEVELOPERS R way COOLER than those COUCH POTATOES Roger Ebert & their ARTsy-FARTsy CRONIES from FILM INDUSTRY! Keep your FAT-ARSE ARTsy-FARTsy & COUCH POTATOES making FILMS out of our Lean & Mean FPS VIDEO GAMES.... haha!! >=P
SEARCH & READ "Shadows On The Screen: The Safety of Maintaining Taboo and the Importance of Social Deviance"
This is another attempt by ARTsy-EMO-Adolf Hitler to SCAPEGOAT our GAMERS! How many SOLDIERS would BUNNY HOP 4 SPEED GAIN in REAL WORLD? Do we run faster in REAL WORLD because we hold a KNIFE in hand vs holding a SNIPER RIFLE like in CS 1.6!? =/
George Carlin - Euphemistic Language....
watch?v=CNk_kzQCclo
Come on, we have a FROG that can't swim in FROGGER!? {roll my eyes}
ENGINEER major not ART major nor FILM major with people such as Shōji Kawamori, Alfred Hitchcock, Gunpei Yokoi, Hironobu Sakaguchi, & more made this (IMMORAL, CORRUPTING YOUTH, & EVIL) kind of MASTERPIECE....
watch?v=fuFF_6bg4T4
That's while ARTsy-FARTsy (always talking about their ART & their MORALITY like ZION-CHRISTIAN Ted Haggard PRIEST & their CRONIES) made these....
Video GAME is a medium that dare not speak its name! It's cloaked in euphemisms such as INTERACTIVE MEDIA or DIGITAL ARTS now a day!! >=(
Why Radio & Music Industry Sucks now....
watch?v=Vzm50HEmNeM
George Carlin - Advertising Lingo....
watch?v=38wFNVKehBw
If I want STORY, I read a BOOK! That's ART my arse, STORY my arse, & MORALITY my arse! I told U exactly what a GREAT GAME not ART CRAP is, which must be driven with GAMEPLAY, TECH, & BLACK HEART! Spare me LINGO CRAP 4 DIP-SHIT!! >=P
I had been VIDEO GAMING 4 ever! It is one of my HOBBY, & I as GAMER will accurately define it without any BS Euphemisms! Video Game is a GAMING Medium! It is a sub set of SOFTWARE with 1 & 0 where computers can read them in machine code! This COMPUTER SOFTWARE contain GAMEPLAY, which allowed USER INPUTS & INTERACTIONS with DISPLAY on SCREEN! With this GAMEPLAY, it had GAME PHYSICS ENGINE, TEXTURE (polygon or spirit) FILES, AUDIO FILES, UI, AI, & ETC that made up this GAMING MEDIUM!! >=)
SEARCH & READ "Weekly Rant: Advertisements in Video Games - Cheat Code Central"
Josh Engen said, "narcissistic loudmouth who thinks that you deserve to live in a world where no one tries to sell you a product, you might want to ask your doctor for a psych referral."
George Carlin talks about advertising....
watch?v=RW2JInyMoPc
SEARCH & READ "Advertising in Violent Video Games Results in Poor Recall"
We already paid $60 per GAME! U can't even deliver GAMEPLAY we want, CLUE-LESS IDIOTS!! >=(
1:09 I can: Bioshock, shadow of the colossus, Minecraft, flower, halo 1-reach, ICO, bastion, dwarf fortress, FF1, FF7, Infamous, little big planet. do you think these fine examples are great peaces of modern art?
This was an excellent presentation. But I just thought that the examples were lacking. Especially for Braid. That game had an entire hidden meaning to it that would have further supported this presentation. The *SPOILER* nuclear bomb ending to it. The ending of the game about changing time and involving a nuclear bomb represents all the pain people wish they could have taken back after the nuclear bomb's power was shown. To go back and fix it. It's like in books and movies. The implied meaning.
I disagree with her point that no game is as any of the great poets, novelists, and filmmakers. There are plenty of games that surpass any of those stories.
since ebert, being a second rate movie reviewer with a penchant to point out obvious plot holes in C movies as he is, attacked something he couldn't possibly understand and knows full well it will spark a large debate, i cant help but to think that this is just another media stunt to get himself some attention. He certainly has gotten mine. Well done mr. ebert! in the past, i only thought of you as untalented hack, but now, i think you are attention seeking money grabing douchebag as well.
whether or not one views video game is art, it really depends on one's definition of art. art is fluid concept--it defies definition. in his article, roger ebert derided video games by saying it can never be art and yet he ebert never given the readers his definition of art.
Braid is artistic in many design aspects and having a good and steady build up. Very climactic. Fitting atmosphere that works with the game design.
However, it's not exactly conclusive. The main character is practically going in circles because he learns nothing from his experiences. The players can grow, but the characters within have no real growth. The character design is shallow in contrast to the general atmosphere of Braid.
@laughingfurry the character doesn't grow? did you play the game till the end? The entire game was about a guy and his past obsession with developing a weapon of mass destruction. It's the design aspects that make it art it's the symbolism and the fact that you really have to read between the lines to discover it's true meaning. The entire game is about time because the main character essentially desires the ability to undo his past mistakes.
Character growth in any form of fiction is when a character goes through a change due to the events the character goes through within the fiction. In Braid, Tim spends his time going on a journey to find himself and a means to amend the errors of his past. By the end of Braid, we see the events that unfolded which started it all. First through Tim's perspective, then through the Princess's perspective. It is revealed what Tim's error was. The epilogue references similar errors.
Entering the door in the epilogue starts you back at the beginning, this time with a means to amend the error. Tim's journey involves collecting stars in stead of building a puzzle. Upon finally succeeding in his obsession, we see yet another error occur, which uses one of the various references in the epilogue. Tim get's the last star, in the princesses bedroom. Then proceeds back. It's still the same. Tim made one mistake, then an equally bad second mistake.
Tim made a series of errors that were more harm than good. He feels great regret for his errors, but he has done nothing to fix them. He hasn't fixed the errors, he hasn't learned that he was doing wrong, he doesn't change.
As for the boom, it isn't just a representation of the effects of a weapon of mass destruction. It is also a representation of all harm that comes from dangerous obsession. Death, destruction, rape.
@laughingfurry and so the character has to somehow change in order for it to be a work of art? Since when? Character development is good in making a good narrative but braid isn't a narrative so why does there need to be character development?
Because there was a story to it. Plain and simple. Isn't it rather flawed for anyone to go through so much, yet change so little? For someone to have no real change would simply mean the character has gone mad, but nothing in Braid even denotes that Tim has gone mad, aside from the castle in the epilogue. Sadly to say, that doesn't even prove much, unless you decide that Tim waiting in the castle is how the story ends.
@laughingfurry except tim DOES learn from his mistakes. We can see this because he tries a different solution than the first one. It still failed but it was a different approach nonetheless. That's part of what Braid is about, trying different solutions to problems till you find the right one. trying a different solution and expecting a different result doesn't imply insanity. Time hasn't fixed the errors but he's trying to. He just hasn't succeeded yet.
@laughingfurry in part, you could see it as a statement about accepting the consequences of ones action. Maybe Tim is trying to fix a problem that. unbeknownst to him, can't be fixed because unlike how he wishes reality was, he can't ever truly undo his actions. Maybe him not succeeding either time is a statement about how he keeps trying to undo his actions but is doomed to fail because no matter what he does, the destruction he has caused is permanent.
True in the sense that that is what the player learns, but nothing is conclusive about Tim after the second error, aside from whatever the player speculates. As I've said before, the player can learn and grow, but Tim doesn't appear to learn anything from the second error. At least, that's how I see it. I suppose it's one of those things that is intentionally open, but it feels more like an incomplete puzzle to me. Odd considering my other interests, but Braid feels incomplete.
@laughingfurry it's not that it's incomplete, it's just left intentionally open to interpretation. It's like a poem, the person who made it provides you with hints and clues but you are supposed to draw your own interpretation of them. That's why i see braid as a work of art, it's a game that essentially behaves as if it were a poem.
I guess I'm just more accustomed to seeing more presence from a character when the character is presented. Probably the only reason it feels incomplete to me. I'm not just talking on an artistic level, but also on the basis of visual media as a whole. I actually do enjoy many types of visual media that are open to interpretation, I just didn't feel anything with Braid's epilogue.
Different people have different outlooks, even when the experience is similar.
this issue i have is when someone else, irrespective of their qualifications, attempts to define art for me--which if you really sit and think about (probably lost a few of you there), is completely contradictory to that reciprocal process between the artists and the audience when experiencing a work of art. i absolute enjoy playing videogames, but as it stands right now, there exist too few examples to make an argument. why not just let it evolve on its own terms? gamers are so impatient...
there are many more arguments for videogames as art... but this is sufficient. film was a collaboration of sound speech writing and images with the added dimension of movement and time. videogames are all that AND an added dimension of interactivity.
----anything expressive is art. -----
roger ebert i respect you etc, but as louis ck would say, you can suck a bag of dicks as per your view on videogames
@jtapia1123 i hope you don't sincerely believe that "anything expressive is art." there's so much wrong with that statement i wouldn't even know where to begin. if it really were offering that unique aesthetic moment, it would provoke a personal reaction specific to that person and instance. it wouldn't turn into this battle cry for validation. video games are fun. what's wrong with that?
@studnothin there is nothing wrong with a fun game. The problem is when a game is determined to be a good or bad one based on how fun it is. Video games, being a mediums of art, are not limited to evoke a single emotion. They are not limited to fun. Fun can be good, but why demand fun and why stop there?
Video games are not supposed to be fun. I'm not saying video games are supposed to be not fun, I am saying that 'fun' is not and should not be the an innate goal of every game.
@mediummatt yep. now, i am not talking about games that make you wanna kill your self bechose they are so broken. i mean that games that like farcry 2 where your hole team dies and you are sole survivior. that gives some powerfull emotions.
Hi There, Kellee.....this is HuskysFahjah. I cannot believe the lack of views nor that I am the first to comment on your excellent grasp of the future of media !
The future of video games will evolve into an INTERACTIVE ART FORM.
It is a hard sell to old farts like me that believed video games were just a jazzed up pinball machine. "What a waste of time, ain't no one, no where, no how, no way, gonna get a job or make a living playing those dang video games!!!" WRONG ! Ask HuskyStarcraft!
This has been flagged as spam show
Video Games R not ART! They R just GAMES! VIDEO GAMES may contain ART just like SOCCER BALL may contain ART on that BALL! That SOCCER BALL is still driven by GAMEPLAY not your ARTsy-FARTsy STORY BS!! {roll my eyes}
Stop using WORD-SMITH to twist our VIDEO GAMES into your ARTsy-FARTsy BS!! >=(
IronJackalTw 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Our SOCIETY manipulated by RACIST POLITICIANS, RACIST MASS MEDIA, & RACIST CHURCHES like to SLANDER our VIDEO GAMERS as VIOLENT PEOPLE daily, but I'm going tell people this TRUTH! It sounds PARADOX, but it is TRUTH!! =/
SEARCH & READ "ADOLF HITLER's PAINTINGS"
SEARCH & READ "ART by John Wayne Gacy"
Our MASS MURDERERS, SERIAL KILLERS, & just AWFUL LOW-LIFE R really these ARTsy-FARTsy TYPE! Look at them! They can't wait to MOLEST our CHILD HOOD MEMORIES on even our VIDEO GAMING!! >=(
IronJackalTw 1 week ago
Our GREEDY CROOKS, FLAG-WAVING LIARS, PRO-RELIGIOUS BIGOTS, MASS MURDERERS, SERIAL KILLERS, & just AWFUL LOW-LIFE R obsessed in ART....
watch?v=cnO8zKH5s_k
VIDEO GAMES R not REAL! They R 4 FUN, yet we have these LIARS pretend that they R REAL to SCAPEGOAT our GAMERS & distract OTHERS from knowing what a SHIT that they really R....
watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY
They hated our GAMES in GAMEPLAY....
watch?v=mmMv0ceWTVQ
They won't be happy until everything is ARTsy-FARTsy like they R!! >=(
IronJackalTw 1 week ago
LIFE is a PARADOX!! {roll my eyes}
Hayao Miyazaki is POLITICAL SCIENCE major not ART major....
watch?v=qD58ZTVm7Qs
Shōji Kawamori is AERONAUTICAL ENGINEERING major not ART major either! Most Aerospace/Mechanical Engineers can DRAW way better than ARTsy-FARTsy like Jackson Pollock anyhow....
watch?v=wckZcVFLU24
Alfred Hitchcock & Stanley Kubrick never won an OSCAR, so neither did Akira Kurosawa....
watch?v=lwOswxbTFd8
ART is PRETENTIOUS & favorite word of ARTsy-FARTsy!! >=P
IronJackalTw 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If HOLLYWOOD, which is control by Zion-CHRISTIAN-Gay-As-Hell-JEWS, can not even give an OSCAR toward their BEST FILM DIRECTORS such as Alfred Hitchcock, Akira Kurosawa, & more in their own FILM INDUSTRY, do U think these IDIOTS can tell another INDUSTRY how to run its own affairs!! =/
SEARCH & READ "The Evolution Of The First-Person Shooter, In One Shot"
FPS GAMEPLAY should be like this BENCHMARK (N64)....
watch?v=NRdXiUwQjiQ
VIDEO GAMES should NOT be like FILM INDUSTRY!! >=(
IronJackalTw 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SEARCH & READ "Everything you need to know about the video game industry" from ubergeeek
SEARCH & READ "Get The Hell Off My Lawn: Why Bioshock Has Ruined FPS Genre For Me"
Stop WORD-SMITH BS, Jerry FAG! BIOSHOCK is CRAP from Zion-JEW Ken Levine (A System Shock WANNABE)! Doug Church is that LEGEND behind our GREAT GAMEPLAY! Give CREDIT where it is due!! {roll my eyes}
Bruce Lee....
watch?v=-DDGMSDfh_w
Dance of DEATH - Iron Maiden....
watch?v=lSHSUOZHXFc
DEATH TAROT & live in TRUTH!! >=)
IronJackalTw 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Oh, I got CENSORED by AlphaOmegaSin 4 telling him that he is one of those REVIEW CRITICS like FAT-ARSE Roger Ebert, too, not our FPS GAMERS that have to pay with our HARD-EARNED MONEY as one of our HOBBY....
watch?v=FiY2th0VEwI
Do U noticed that MASS-MEDIA always PORTRAIT our GAMERS as either some DORKY-FAT-ARSE (FUGLY) NERDS or those POT-SMOKING (can't hold a real job) HIPSTERS? If Tim Schafer's STORY BS always FLOP & John Madden series SPORT GAMES would SOLD well, what do that tells U!? =/
IronJackalTw 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here R our REAL VIDEO GAMERS:
SEARCH & READ "Billy Mitchell" of Donkey Kong CHAMP
SEARCH & READ "Steve Wiebe" of Donkey Kong CHAMP
SEARCH & READ "Hank Chien" of Donkey Kong CHAMP
More of our FPS GAMERS....
watch?v=FkQ0Vu2CF6Y
Stop BS STEREOTYPING of our VIDEO GAMERS!! >=(
IronJackalTw 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here R our REAL GAMING DEVELOPERS:
SEARCH & READ "Cevat Yerli" of Crysis (SOFTWARE)
SEARCH & READ "Shinji Mikami" of Resident Evil (SOFTWARE)
SEARCH & READ "Min-Liang Tan" of Razer (HARDWARE)
Our VIDEO GAME DEVELOPERS R way COOLER than those COUCH POTATOES Roger Ebert & their ARTsy-FARTsy CRONIES from FILM INDUSTRY! Keep your FAT-ARSE ARTsy-FARTsy & COUCH POTATOES making FILMS out of our Lean & Mean FPS VIDEO GAMES.... haha!! >=P
IronJackalTw 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SEARCH & READ "Shadows On The Screen: The Safety of Maintaining Taboo and the Importance of Social Deviance"
This is another attempt by ARTsy-EMO-Adolf Hitler to SCAPEGOAT our GAMERS! How many SOLDIERS would BUNNY HOP 4 SPEED GAIN in REAL WORLD? Do we run faster in REAL WORLD because we hold a KNIFE in hand vs holding a SNIPER RIFLE like in CS 1.6!? =/
George Carlin - Euphemistic Language....
watch?v=CNk_kzQCclo
Come on, we have a FROG that can't swim in FROGGER!? {roll my eyes}
IronJackalTw 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SEARCH & READ "The Führer's Obsession with Art"
ENGINEER major not ART major nor FILM major with people such as Shōji Kawamori, Alfred Hitchcock, Gunpei Yokoi, Hironobu Sakaguchi, & more made this (IMMORAL, CORRUPTING YOUTH, & EVIL) kind of MASTERPIECE....
watch?v=fuFF_6bg4T4
That's while ARTsy-FARTsy (always talking about their ART & their MORALITY like ZION-CHRISTIAN Ted Haggard PRIEST & their CRONIES) made these....
watch?v=xaP8oS_IV9s
Contradiction? Life is stranger than fiction!! =/
IronJackalTw 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Video GAME is a medium that dare not speak its name! It's cloaked in euphemisms such as INTERACTIVE MEDIA or DIGITAL ARTS now a day!! >=(
Why Radio & Music Industry Sucks now....
watch?v=Vzm50HEmNeM
George Carlin - Advertising Lingo....
watch?v=38wFNVKehBw
If I want STORY, I read a BOOK! That's ART my arse, STORY my arse, & MORALITY my arse! I told U exactly what a GREAT GAME not ART CRAP is, which must be driven with GAMEPLAY, TECH, & BLACK HEART! Spare me LINGO CRAP 4 DIP-SHIT!! >=P
IronJackalTw 1 day ago
I had been VIDEO GAMING 4 ever! It is one of my HOBBY, & I as GAMER will accurately define it without any BS Euphemisms! Video Game is a GAMING Medium! It is a sub set of SOFTWARE with 1 & 0 where computers can read them in machine code! This COMPUTER SOFTWARE contain GAMEPLAY, which allowed USER INPUTS & INTERACTIONS with DISPLAY on SCREEN! With this GAMEPLAY, it had GAME PHYSICS ENGINE, TEXTURE (polygon or spirit) FILES, AUDIO FILES, UI, AI, & ETC that made up this GAMING MEDIUM!! >=)
IronJackalTw 1 day ago
SEARCH & READ "Weekly Rant: Advertisements in Video Games - Cheat Code Central"
Josh Engen said, "narcissistic loudmouth who thinks that you deserve to live in a world where no one tries to sell you a product, you might want to ask your doctor for a psych referral."
George Carlin talks about advertising....
watch?v=RW2JInyMoPc
SEARCH & READ "Advertising in Violent Video Games Results in Poor Recall"
We already paid $60 per GAME! U can't even deliver GAMEPLAY we want, CLUE-LESS IDIOTS!! >=(
IronJackalTw 13 hours ago
Video Games R ART not GAME crowd is FULL OF SHIT in denial!! =/
George Carlin on Mass-Media (sorry 4 repetition, but middle part is great)....
watch?v=AtK_YsVInw8
SERACH & READ "'The world has changed': Team Ninja's Hayashi on more realistic, respectful games"
SEARCH & READ "Peter Molyneux"
Andreas Ronning is correct! Tomonobu Itagaki served his EVIL MASTERS well! TORUS.... lol? Bring on Grade-A Prime-Cut FULL OF SHIT already....
watch?v=04Wf2-gqQdU
We lived in a SICK SICK WORLD!! >=P
IronJackalTw 5 hours ago
1:09 I can: Bioshock, shadow of the colossus, Minecraft, flower, halo 1-reach, ICO, bastion, dwarf fortress, FF1, FF7, Infamous, little big planet. do you think these fine examples are great peaces of modern art?
unholysanta 1 month ago
This was an excellent presentation. But I just thought that the examples were lacking. Especially for Braid. That game had an entire hidden meaning to it that would have further supported this presentation. The *SPOILER* nuclear bomb ending to it. The ending of the game about changing time and involving a nuclear bomb represents all the pain people wish they could have taken back after the nuclear bomb's power was shown. To go back and fix it. It's like in books and movies. The implied meaning.
Dereego 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
No superhero ever said "With great power comes great responsibility."
A superheros uncle, however, did.
slaggavagga 2 months ago
Comment removed
slaggavagga 2 months ago
if you don't think video games are art, your clearly not playing the right games
halfbakedharry 2 months ago
I disagree with her point that no game is as any of the great poets, novelists, and filmmakers. There are plenty of games that surpass any of those stories.
deadlestwarriorfan 2 months ago
and GREAT JOB kellee! for defending one of the most innovative art of this generation!
jstranger123 3 months ago
since ebert, being a second rate movie reviewer with a penchant to point out obvious plot holes in C movies as he is, attacked something he couldn't possibly understand and knows full well it will spark a large debate, i cant help but to think that this is just another media stunt to get himself some attention. He certainly has gotten mine. Well done mr. ebert! in the past, i only thought of you as untalented hack, but now, i think you are attention seeking money grabing douchebag as well.
jstranger123 3 months ago
Comment removed
jstranger123 3 months ago
whether or not one views video game is art, it really depends on one's definition of art. art is fluid concept--it defies definition. in his article, roger ebert derided video games by saying it can never be art and yet he ebert never given the readers his definition of art.
jstranger123 3 months ago
Metal Gear Solid 3.
VGMGarden 3 months ago
I don't get how you can have this presentation and not mention team ico at least once
Wesleythelin 3 months ago
if braid isn't a piece of art then i don't know what the hell is.
sunset261 6 months ago
@sunset261 Exactly! you don't know.
FreeVonHelton 3 months ago
@FreeVonHelton then explain to me exactly how braid is not a piece of art.
sunset261 3 months ago
@sunset261
Not my argument, but I feel I must say this.
Braid is artistic in many design aspects and having a good and steady build up. Very climactic. Fitting atmosphere that works with the game design.
However, it's not exactly conclusive. The main character is practically going in circles because he learns nothing from his experiences. The players can grow, but the characters within have no real growth. The character design is shallow in contrast to the general atmosphere of Braid.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
@laughingfurry the character doesn't grow? did you play the game till the end? The entire game was about a guy and his past obsession with developing a weapon of mass destruction. It's the design aspects that make it art it's the symbolism and the fact that you really have to read between the lines to discover it's true meaning. The entire game is about time because the main character essentially desires the ability to undo his past mistakes.
sunset261 3 months ago
@sunset261
Character growth in any form of fiction is when a character goes through a change due to the events the character goes through within the fiction. In Braid, Tim spends his time going on a journey to find himself and a means to amend the errors of his past. By the end of Braid, we see the events that unfolded which started it all. First through Tim's perspective, then through the Princess's perspective. It is revealed what Tim's error was. The epilogue references similar errors.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
@sunset261
Continuing...
Entering the door in the epilogue starts you back at the beginning, this time with a means to amend the error. Tim's journey involves collecting stars in stead of building a puzzle. Upon finally succeeding in his obsession, we see yet another error occur, which uses one of the various references in the epilogue. Tim get's the last star, in the princesses bedroom. Then proceeds back. It's still the same. Tim made one mistake, then an equally bad second mistake.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
@sunset261
In conclusion...
Tim made a series of errors that were more harm than good. He feels great regret for his errors, but he has done nothing to fix them. He hasn't fixed the errors, he hasn't learned that he was doing wrong, he doesn't change.
As for the boom, it isn't just a representation of the effects of a weapon of mass destruction. It is also a representation of all harm that comes from dangerous obsession. Death, destruction, rape.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
@laughingfurry and so the character has to somehow change in order for it to be a work of art? Since when? Character development is good in making a good narrative but braid isn't a narrative so why does there need to be character development?
sunset261 3 months ago
@sunset261
Because there was a story to it. Plain and simple. Isn't it rather flawed for anyone to go through so much, yet change so little? For someone to have no real change would simply mean the character has gone mad, but nothing in Braid even denotes that Tim has gone mad, aside from the castle in the epilogue. Sadly to say, that doesn't even prove much, unless you decide that Tim waiting in the castle is how the story ends.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
Comment removed
sunset261 3 months ago
@laughingfurry except tim DOES learn from his mistakes. We can see this because he tries a different solution than the first one. It still failed but it was a different approach nonetheless. That's part of what Braid is about, trying different solutions to problems till you find the right one. trying a different solution and expecting a different result doesn't imply insanity. Time hasn't fixed the errors but he's trying to. He just hasn't succeeded yet.
sunset261 3 months ago
@laughingfurry in part, you could see it as a statement about accepting the consequences of ones action. Maybe Tim is trying to fix a problem that. unbeknownst to him, can't be fixed because unlike how he wishes reality was, he can't ever truly undo his actions. Maybe him not succeeding either time is a statement about how he keeps trying to undo his actions but is doomed to fail because no matter what he does, the destruction he has caused is permanent.
sunset261 3 months ago
@sunset261
True in the sense that that is what the player learns, but nothing is conclusive about Tim after the second error, aside from whatever the player speculates. As I've said before, the player can learn and grow, but Tim doesn't appear to learn anything from the second error. At least, that's how I see it. I suppose it's one of those things that is intentionally open, but it feels more like an incomplete puzzle to me. Odd considering my other interests, but Braid feels incomplete.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
@laughingfurry it's not that it's incomplete, it's just left intentionally open to interpretation. It's like a poem, the person who made it provides you with hints and clues but you are supposed to draw your own interpretation of them. That's why i see braid as a work of art, it's a game that essentially behaves as if it were a poem.
sunset261 3 months ago
@sunset261
I guess I'm just more accustomed to seeing more presence from a character when the character is presented. Probably the only reason it feels incomplete to me. I'm not just talking on an artistic level, but also on the basis of visual media as a whole. I actually do enjoy many types of visual media that are open to interpretation, I just didn't feel anything with Braid's epilogue.
Different people have different outlooks, even when the experience is similar.
laughingfurry 3 months ago
this issue i have is when someone else, irrespective of their qualifications, attempts to define art for me--which if you really sit and think about (probably lost a few of you there), is completely contradictory to that reciprocal process between the artists and the audience when experiencing a work of art. i absolute enjoy playing videogames, but as it stands right now, there exist too few examples to make an argument. why not just let it evolve on its own terms? gamers are so impatient...
studnothin 10 months ago
there are many more arguments for videogames as art... but this is sufficient. film was a collaboration of sound speech writing and images with the added dimension of movement and time. videogames are all that AND an added dimension of interactivity.
----anything expressive is art. -----
roger ebert i respect you etc, but as louis ck would say, you can suck a bag of dicks as per your view on videogames
jtapia1123 11 months ago
@jtapia1123 i hope you don't sincerely believe that "anything expressive is art." there's so much wrong with that statement i wouldn't even know where to begin. if it really were offering that unique aesthetic moment, it would provoke a personal reaction specific to that person and instance. it wouldn't turn into this battle cry for validation. video games are fun. what's wrong with that?
studnothin 10 months ago
@studnothin there is nothing wrong with a fun game. The problem is when a game is determined to be a good or bad one based on how fun it is. Video games, being a mediums of art, are not limited to evoke a single emotion. They are not limited to fun. Fun can be good, but why demand fun and why stop there?
Video games are not supposed to be fun. I'm not saying video games are supposed to be not fun, I am saying that 'fun' is not and should not be the an innate goal of every game.
mediummatt 9 months ago
@mediummatt yep. now, i am not talking about games that make you wanna kill your self bechose they are so broken. i mean that games that like farcry 2 where your hole team dies and you are sole survivior. that gives some powerfull emotions.
gethsoftware 7 months ago
@studnothin I object
saijeehiguchi 4 months ago
Hi There, Kellee.....this is HuskysFahjah. I cannot believe the lack of views nor that I am the first to comment on your excellent grasp of the future of media !
The future of video games will evolve into an INTERACTIVE ART FORM.
It is a hard sell to old farts like me that believed video games were just a jazzed up pinball machine. "What a waste of time, ain't no one, no where, no how, no way, gonna get a job or make a living playing those dang video games!!!" WRONG ! Ask HuskyStarcraft!
huskysfahjah 1 year ago 2