Bill Maher, Religulous @ TIFF Sept. 7th 2008 part 2

[gggreggg]

who is the guy with shades. i am interested in what he has to say, but the damned shades are very off--putting (and still considered impolite when speaking to people.)

[EscpdFrmPsykward]

I think the event that really shifted the US to more religion in politics would be 9/11. I might be a little short sighted on that, thinking it only happened in the last 8 years, but I think the attacks hit everyone with the question "why?" and one of the answers was that the attackers consider us a "godless" nation. So, US took the bible in one hand a mini American flag in the other. Going back further then that, the "Red Scare" stirred up alot of pro-jesus crap too...

[harleyblueswoman]

Pascal wrote:

"If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is."

[GoblinInventor]

Yep, and Pascal was a piss-poor theologian. His philosophy was interesting, he came up with some interesting math things, but, much like Isaac Newton actually, his theological and numerilogical predilections were batshit crazy. His wager, which is what you bring up here, is beyond silly, as it assumes that there is no downside to believing in a god, AND that he will accept some half-assed believer who accepted him on this basis.

[Soninha1982]

So true! Those who believe in God, 'just in case' one exists aren't likely to be in an all-knowing god's good graces!= (if one exists)

[PRIMEx420]

very good point; i didn't have the patience to articulate it, however, please don't say stuff like "some interesting math things"... it makes you seem like some sort of... well, a goblin inventor

[robaquarian]

yeah that is a stupid wager cause it assumes its a 50 50 bet, he does not include islam,or any other god so its like a 1 in 100 bet

also its an argument from intimidation,if you dont believe there are consequences that is stupid,if a proposition has to be accepted by a threat of pain it is not true

[PRIMEx420]

setting aside the fact that this statement is full of logical fallacies, let's not forget that Pascal lived in an age where if he had said anything to the contrary, he'd be committing professional and possibly even actual suicide

[DepressedBeyondWurdz]

It's not Furby.

[LuckyLukarse1981]

Larry Charles is a brilliant observer of the human condition

[LuckyLukarse1981]

When people talk about God and creation, they always think of beautiful things, like roses and hummingbirds. But I also think of a little African boy sitting on a river bank in West Africa with a worm eating its way through his eyeball, which will make him blind in the next few years. Now if you are telling me that God created the rose and the hummingbird, presumably he also created this thing in his eye. And it didn't evolve the way that I believe that it did, but it was created by God...

[LuckyLukarse1981]

...Some way or another, God said, "I will make a worm that can only live by boring through peoples' eyes." Now I don't find that compatible with the Christian idea of a God who cares for the well being of each of us.

-- Sir David Attenborough

[ManhunterFromMars]

I'm anti-...children.

[mazroea]

no .. That's not stupid

Ignorance is on of the characteristics of mankind , and despite all the discoveries and inventions he achieved he still admits that what he knows in reality - what can be seen and felt- is nothing comparing to what he does not know , let alone what is behind reality!! I think that humbleness makes us accept the other opinion, even if we oppose it, while Arrogance keeps us away !!

[mazroea]

They are "co co" to !!

religions are actually based on faith and not only scientific facts because beyond the creation of life there has to be a mistery and when we reach that sector we have to shift from beleiving the seen to believing the unseen and irrational that's the thing that Maher can't get

[Defenstrator]

No, you don't get it. When you get to the point that life is a mystery and can't be explained, you don't start believing irrational things. That's just stupid. Instead, you acknowledge that you just don't know the answer and accept that nobody knows it right now. Just because no one knows an answer to a question doesn't mean that you need to make up fantasy stories to explain it.

[mazroea]

no .. That's not stupid

Ignorance is on of the characteristics of mankind , and despite all the discoveries and inventions he achieved he still admits that what he knows in reality - what can be seen and felt- is nothing comparing to what he does not know , let alone what is behind reality!! I think that humbleness makes us accept the other opinion, even if we oppose it, while Arrogance keeps us away !!

[batman551]

Bill... when a rationalist can explain in rational way the formation of perfect functioning living beings.. well.. I will be all ears, because the last thing I rationally read was the "entropy/enthalpy" law..that goes like this... from chaos, order will never be formed without external influences.. chaos produces more chaos... Bill, I do not agree on how do you think but I will defend the right for any person to think the way they choose.

[niginit]

you failed, try again.

[sealhunta]

it is irational to pretend that u know the answer to how life began

[batman551]

Nope; I did not say that! I was not even here when everything started and the same goes for all current living things.If you read my comment, I say I would be delighted to talk to a rationalist, about some deep gaps in some of the theories of evolution. but at the end, everybody believes what they want to believe and I defend that right. I am not here to convince anybody. You may agree that historically scientific prove has been wrong. Since when imperfect human beings give perfect explanations?

[Defenstrator]

Except evolution isn't a belief, it's a fact. As of three months ago the DNA of the Chimpanzee was decoded. Guess what they found when they compared it to human? That you can see the point aprox 3 million years ago that there was only one animal, the one that both we and chimps are decended from. So make up what stories you want. Evolution is now a law like gravity.

[batman551]

I respect your opinion. Rats are lab animals normally used because it similarity with DNA also. Hard to believe that from "one animal", all the ever so rich variety of living creatures, each with its own perfect way of organs that function in a synchronized way. Neither of us was here 3 mill years ago. Your believe is as good as mine. You pick if it is from a chimp or rat humans evolved; then ask yourself why not all chimps/rats evolved to be humans? Murphys law comes close to evolution theory.

[ahabthewhaler]

all that you just said means you dont understand the theory of evolution. and its not a belief it is the strongest scientific theory as opposed to the other rubbish

[batman551]

Well.. Lets see.. I hold an engineering degree, masters in information systems and business administration. I think I get the scientific side of this conversation.

I welcome your doc-references in the evolution THEORY. Again, you believe what you want to believe and your guess is as good as mine, but please don't tell me that I supposed to trust a THEORY from people that have a proven record of being wrong before; and that is an historic documented fact.

[ahabthewhaler]

nice work on going to school. I dont particularly care if you want to believe in evolution, because as you said it is just a theory put forward by the scientific community, and yes they have obviously been wrong before. i am simply saying it is a scientific theory, the other stuff such as creationism/intelligent design is a silly story based on a silly book

[batman551]

Thanks again for your comments. What I try to say in my original comment is that evolution theory holds as many "hard to imagine" assumptions as any other way/book that tries to explain how everything started. When I turn around and see all living things working on such a beautiful sync way, based on a scientific law, I conclude that from chaos has never come out order (that is why we have jobs) and that a lot of order in this world.

[LuckyLukarse1981]

Firstly evolution is not formed from chaos (do you mean the chaos theory or a god representing the idea of choas?!?). It is a process where small changes over millions of years (this is probably why most cannot fathom the concept) which are discarded or integrated into the population based on whether it is a useful change. Secondly 'beautiful sync way'?!? Have you watched animal planet?

[LuckyLukarse1981]

Proven wrong before. That is how we improve scientific theory, by attempting to prove it wrong. You want history? I remember a group claiming in their book which is the word of their almighty deity that the sun revolved around our planet, to which Galileo was treated quite unfairly over. Your iron age book has pro slavery arguments in it to, whatever happened to that great idea?

[Defenstrator]

See, that's the thing. You don't respect my opinion, because I don't have one. Evolution isn't opinion, it's fact. You can live in pretend land and deny it, but you not believing in it isn't you expressing an opinion. It's you denying reality.

[batman551]

If evolution for you its a fact; be it. I do not think I live in the pretend or deny land. Please get back with me when the "missing link" is found; with a 100% proof. what has evolved in humans.. say.. in the last 2,000 years? have we stop evolved because we reached the end of evolved meter? I have never seen order coming from chaos.. it always takes something/someone that create that order.

[Defenstrator]

Ah but you do. Is the fossil record incomplete? Yes. But it is still there. As are genetics, strata formations, records of extinction and new forms of life developing. The only theory put forward that fits so is evolution. I notice that while you try to discredit it, you are unable to put forward an alternate theory that has a shred of actual proof. With some real evidence versus no evidence at all evolution remains the only credible theory of those who do not live life denying reality.

[batman551]

I think we should be paid for promoting Bill's movie. Lets see. Are new forms being developed or just being discovered? Fossils are there and so items form Jesus, Allah, Buda (excuse for not mention others) no doubt life has been in this planet for as long the man made instruments can record it. I am not discrediting anything! Want real evidence? Travel to Rome, Jerusalem and other places to see for yourself. If evolution is the only credible theory for you; that is fine. Not for me.

[LuckyLukarse1981]

What is this proof of which you speak? Rome and / or Jerusalem are pretty big places. How did you (or your leaders) quantify and qualify that these items / places can be considered 'evidence'? PS You misspelt Buddha as Buda :-/

Your theory btw is not a theory in the sense of a scientific discussion as to what 'theory' means? A theory is something you develop when presented with evidence. What you have is an idea and are trying to link that with your surrounds, cart before the horse my friend ;-)

[batman551]

You mention proof by mention fossils, I mention proof by point you to places where it is physical evidence but not valid enough. Ok, once again, if you consider a theory full of holes and gaps as absolute true for you, that is fine. You put your faith in Scientifics; I put my faith somewhere else..

[LuckyLukarse1981]

If batman551 (such a tarnishing of thy hero's name shall not be in thy vain, it will be in your vein, mu ha ha - bad pun...apologies) doesn't want to believe in evolution, he can refuse to have his mutated MRSA bug treated by the latest antibiotics, penicillin should do fine ;-)

[LuckyLukarse1981]

In the last two thousand years? This is great - tell you what, go to Jerusalem and tell me what the average height of a doorway was in that region. Or maybe go to Japan and see what their av height was pre-western contact, pre read meat. Then tell me how tall these peoples are now ;-) This is gradual evolution of a species, the thing you cannot seem to grasp is the speed of this change. Think glaciers, but slower ;-)

[daanimallovr]

Hey, batman551 feel free not to take the wonderful medicines the Theory of Evolution has helped our scientists create. There is more evidence of evolution than there is of gravity, since you don't trust that theory why don't you just go fly off into space you dumbass. I have a degree in history and I seem to understand the science behind it better than you.

[batman551]

If there is such overwhelming evidence of evolution, what happened with you? Were you left behind? By the vast choices of words I can tell you may be the person that lead us all into the 22th century.. Please do not reply.. Dont waste my time.

[000EatMan000]

Evolution is one of the most fundamental pieces of modern science. You can choose to live in ignorance and pretend evolution is some agenda pushed by atheist scientists to mock religion, but the truth is evolution is one of the most bedrock pieces of human knowledge. The question is not if evolution is real or not, but every exact detail of how it works. Nothing about evolution is controversial. Nothing about evolution is fringe. It's proven science. Cold, hard science. There is no debate.

[batman551]

I do not choose to live in ignorance, if you choose to believe that it was a magic pond where somehow unexplained organisms and electrical forces got together and create many species over millions of years by random accident and that occurred twice (male and female because I guess over those million years they have to reproduce), well in my opinion it as far fetch as the ideas of, say, the talking snake as Bill likes to say. Who was first, the chicken or the egg? Cold hard science? Your choice.

[octane629]

that's because you are not in a science related field. if you were to study viruses, which have very short lifespans, you could study the evolution of a virus; how a virus will change it self to become resistant to existing vaccines.

there are numerous examples that can easily be studied which show how species adapt to their environments. if you choose to call it magic and make not effort to understand it, it only shows revelry in ignorance. nothing more.

[batman551]

Call me whatever you want, just tell me Mr. Scientist how was that very first virus formed and I am not talking about adapting but creation. I am trying to make an effort to understand how this evolution Theory is taken as fact without considering other options, specially knowing that scientist are humans and have been terrible wrong before; and that s a fact. The word evolution means process of change; assuming that something is already there. How that something got created out of nothing?

[octane629]

we're talking about 2 different things here. do i believe it is possible for an entity to have created a spark that cause some molecules to clump together, w/ a single celled creature to develop into a multi celled creature to eventually become a human (which is far from a perfect species)... i say its possible.

but if you think the planet earth is more like some something that GOD put together like a HO train set, complete with animals, (no dinosaurs) who NEEDS to be worshipped or i go to hell

[batman551]

I believe we are talking about many subjects here. If you believe molecules clump together and created not only humans but thousands of living creatures, well good for you. I say that probability is one in a million and one in a trillion for the same thing happen twice (male and female)lets talk about creation against evolution and lets leave religion out because there are many religions and some of them have differences among themselves. Probable yes, possible not so much.

[octane629]

this god is capable of directing all peoples and creatures (fate). every time a person dies, this god take the time to go the naughty-or-nice list and send the dead person either to heaven or hell.

i'm not buying any of that.

i'm also not buying noah's ark, a 7000 year old earth, christianity is THE religion, the bible, mohammed, reincarnation, a chosen people or anything along those lines.

[batman551]

it is ok if you do not buy those things, but you have to agree that believing a once in a trillion event is also pretty far fetch. so how is right and who is wrong? both of us and none of us. time will tell if we are still in the planet to see it. you put your feith where you see it fit.

[octane629]

one in a trillion is very long odds. there are trillions of creatures on the planet. there are trillions of planets in known galaxies.

one in a trillion. that's why it took so long for humans to arrive. its why we probably will never find similar in the universe.

i rely on science and i can say with confidence:

- the earth is older than 10,000 years.

- there was no ark with 2 of every earth creatures.

i can say that god is NOT on george bush's side.

[octane629]

now, if you suggested that the creator (i won't call him god) was an extra-terrestrial who, through a science experiement, created our galaxy or even possibly our universe (which would suggest this is not the only universe, but its the only one we can see)... for the purposes of studying... or perhaps he moved on long ago...

i'd subscribe to that possibility.

[batman551]

Well.. The Bible (the only one I kind of know) talks about giants in the David and Goliath event. There are some you tube videos about that but with my reservations to touch that. Once again the subject is: what is more possible, feasible and probable, creation of something or evolution of something, and if it is evolution, how that thing got created?

[octane629]

that's the difference between science and creation. i don't need to have all the answers. its okay that i don't know everything. whereas, with religion... your little brother gets hit by a truck: god's will. your cousin was born with his heart on the outside of his chest and he dies at birth: god's will. a busload of nuns goes over a cliff: god's will. christians and many religious people in the world NEED and answer to everything. god is the answer...

[batman551]

but wait... how in religion ask to have every answer where in cience you are confortable not having all the answers?

[octane629]

i know where you are going with this, i was raised a christian.

bottom line, humans were not created. we evolved from stuff which has no resemblance to humans.

in science, there are theories and fact. fact is backed up by various tests. this is how we've established that the earth is not flat, the universe does not revolve around the earth, dinosaurs once existed and the earth wasn't created in 7 days.

[batman551]

If humans evolved, it must be a thing that evolve from, right? how that thing was created? in a one in a trillion chance? maybe or maybe not. Evolution is still a theory and not a law that scientist have not been able to reproduce the event; out of nothing create twice something. Scientist said that the earth was flat and then corrected themselves; they assume and then try to prove their assumptions. from hypothesis to theory to law, but the buck ended in theory.

[octane629]

some things are theory, some are fact. its not a theory that the earth is at least 5 mil years old. & scientists have seen species evolve.

it was the scientists who calculated the earth was round. it was flat-earthers, non scientists who were the last to agree.

in the end (since this is my last comment), i will take the large volume of facts & apply them to my beliefs.

i notch them against the arsenal of facts that confirm the authenticity and accuracy of the bible, any day.

all the best.

[000mundaka]

the beauty of science is that it has the courage to ask questions, to acknowledge when its wrong, and to acknowledge when it simply doesnt know. religion, being divine, must always be right even when its obviously wrong. religion may offer every answer but some people would like the correct answer and be given reason to accept it.

[daanimallovr]

batman551

"By the vast choices of words I can tell you may be the person that lead us all into the 22th century.."

Ok man if your going to try to attack my intelligence than please come back at me with something better than an incoherent sentence fragment...LOL

By the way if you understand evolution so well and scientific theory can you give me the scientific definition of evolution and do you know the difference between a hypothesis and scientific theory, WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP?

[LuckyLukarse1981]

Entropy is related to thermodynamics in the micro sense and does not apply to evolutionary theory in the macro or micro sense.

How life began and how life evolved are also two different theoretical questions, to sealhunta ;-)

perfectly funtiong human beings? In what sense do you pose this hypothesis? Moral (pfftt)? Biological (Our adrenal gland is too big and our pre-frontal brain too small, the knees fuck up nearly all the time, the neck/spine are horribly exposed to mechanical trauma...)

[baracine]

Who is the interviewer?

[bahramf]

Bill Maher is Satan, don't see this movie. Jesus forever!!!

[niginit]

LOL, you illustrate what this movie is all about!

[ManhunterFromMars]

JESUS FOREVER=hilarity