When Seconds Count: Stopping Active Shooters

[jmans56]

Listen guys..guns are very good because if there were no guns rednecks will have nothing to do..and like many people said 2nd amendment is good..and that guns protect people

[bigshukas]

random comment. but for those of you who dont own a firearm never thought you would. go buy one. learn to shoot it. 2nd amendment. hope that you never have to use it. but in the event you do........ you should get the picture.

[grantsdaman01]

I really like how the description talks about how experts are changing the way they look at gun free zones. Does that imply that they were high as fuck when they initially got the idea to create them? Either they were cocaine snorting experts or they weren't actually experts to begin with.

[bigbluedragonfly09]

To believe that a criminal with a gun will obey a sign that reads "no guns allowed" is beyond ignorant and naive. Such signs only ensure that no law abiding citizens with guns are around. It is a welcome mat to all robbers and murderers.

The people that post such signs should be charged with accessory to murder for facilitating the crime. I will NEVER go into such an establishment when I see that sign.

[ajlepisto]

30 people dead by the time the cops are ready to go. And people say we're safer just calling the Police and praying? The ignorance of human beings, is so frightening.

[tubevideoguy762]

4:06 HOLY SHIT COPS ARE EVEN REALIZING THAT NOW.....YES!!!!

[cceessaarr234]

WHat a voice,.

[JAndersonIV]

4:11-4:25 AMEN!!! Why doesn't everyone realize this?

[AmyLeesPetWookiee]

@JAndersonIV The democrats just don't care. They think that they're gods or something and can change the world, or perhaps they feel that the world is perfect. The real bad people don't care what some piece of paper says, "gun control" laws only disarm the good people and cause a "sheep to the wolves" scenario.

Bad people will always get weapons and murder people regardless of what law is in place. It's sad that so many people don't get it.

[OhioGuy19]

@AmyLeesPetWookiee Progressives/socialists/commun­ists/democrats actually WANT these shootings to occur so they can use the tragedies as ammunition (no pun intended) in their argument for total gun bans. Once we are disarmed they can usher in open/overt marxism-leninism and herd dissidents into gulags or just shoot them in the woods NKVD style.

[xUberxHaxx]

The thing about arming everyone else is that there is the assumption that nobody will ever have a really bad day and decide to just start shooting now that they have a gun. It may be easier to take them down, but it also puts firearms in situations where they previously did not exist. Not to mention any number of lethal accidents that could occur. I'm not saying there is an easy solution to this problem, but people really need to think about the implications of arming everyone.

[AmyLeesPetWookiee]

@xUberxHaxx LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE GUNS DON'T "EXIST" IN THOSE PLACES.

Gun safety rules should be taught in schools. It would reduce the number of accidental suicides by a huge percentage. People should be encouraged to take defense classes. Instead, we have a bunch of ignorant degenerates who would rather "cover their eyes and hope the problem goes away," while disarming the populace so that the actual good people can't end the problems.

[ajlepisto]

@xUberxHaxx Why said they'd arm everyone? The stats say that even with the right, such a small number of the population actually get their concealed carry permit that you're bound to hardly ever meet one of them.

Firearms are already in every situation, we just don't always hear or find out about them. That's the way it should be. You shouldn't know if I have a gun until you try to take my life. Then you'll know.

[OhioGuy19]

@ajlepisto Florida has issued almost 2.1 million permits since 1987 and as of 2011 had approximately 850,000 active permits. Ohio has somewhere around 300,000 active permits, in a state with 11 million people (probably 7.5 million are adults), so out of 7.5 million adults, 300,000 have permits to carry weapons. So on a daily basis, in Ohio, about 4% of the people you see in public are likely armed with a pistol, not insignificant by any measure.

[OhioGuy19]

@OhioGuy19 So if somebody opens fire in a shopping mall with 600 shoppers, unless the mall is a "gun-free" zone, and assuming no pistol permit people casually "failed" to notice the no-gun sign, the shooter should potentially be faced with upwards of 24 armed citizens, going by the Ohio rate of about 4% of the adult population having concealed carry permits.

[OhioGuy19]

@OhioGuy19 My limit remark about people "casually failing" to notice no-gun signs has to do with the fact that many "gun buster" signs or "gun free" signs do not conform to the requirements of state law, they are too small, they are 50-100 feet inside the building instead of on the door, they are at ankle/knee level instead of eye level, etc. Typically in cases where a sign does not conform to state law, it can be ignored. If you have to hunt to find the sign it really doesn't count.

[OhioGuy19]

@OhioGuy19 Of course you are required to know your state laws, NEVER carry in a place where it is prohibited by statute! Such places would be police stations, jails, federal government buildings, typically state/county government buildings, court-houses, typically hospitals, schools, colleges, etc. It doesn't matter if the sign is clearly posted, those are prohibited by statute. As for malls/etc, if they want you disarmed they need to CLEARLY POST it.

[ajlepisto]

@OhioGuy19 Yes, the statistics don't lie, but my point was that the fear that everyone will have guns and a bad day are over-hyped by people who don't know the reality.

My point was, he's got such a small chance of being face to face with a concealed carry owner and knowing the person is carrying, that it will have no impact on his life.

[OhioGuy19]

@ajlepisto Well at least a half-dozen mass shootings have been lessened/mitigated or stopped by armed citizens. The three that immediately come to mind are the shooting at the high school in Mississippi where the principal retrieved his 45 ACP from his car and held the shooter at gunpoint before he could leave and head to the junior high. The second would be a college in West Virginia where students retrieved guns from cars and held the shooter at gunpoint.

[OhioGuy19]

@OhioGuy19 The third was Charles Whitman's shooting where armed citizens used their rifles to keep him suppressed and to keep him from being able to effectively take shots at citizens. They kept him occupied while several police moved into position and then assaulted the clock tower.

There are a few more big ones but I cannot readily recall them right now.

The media tends not to give them much, if any, attention.

[DaleCarterStuff]

@xUberxHaxx - licensed gun owners are, according to every crime statistic report, the MOST law abiding people in the country. Guns are not appropriate for all people and those who are uncomfortable with them, or incapable of handling them, should not arm themselves. Putting a firearm in the hands of a "good guy" in any of these school shootings would have limited the amount of casualties.

[123666420]

i carry a 9mm in my book bag every day i go to college, for obvious reasons

[recordmanful]

Forget 2nd amendment, we need bigger "gun-free zone" signs.

[zoofergee]

arm everyone teach everyone from a younng age to shoot and be responcible with guns then arm them get rid of all the laws that limit my rights to own a firearm and carry it and the mass murders will stop

[AmyLeesPetWookiee]

@zoofergee Amen. Also abolish the injustice system that defends the degenerates, and enact a justice system that defends the good.

[yuowatcher]

"If first officer on the scene acts quickly..."

But he is already too late. How about armed citizen on the scene? If only 10% of people arm themselves, and carry concealed gun, you very likely will have one of them around at any moment. If an idiot starts shooting, there is fair chance armed citizen is facing him, and he will stop it not only because he feels responsible, but also merely because he has to defend himself too. Don't help to disarm citizens: one of them may save your life one day.

[FFlint07]

I carried while a college student.. my life is more important than any law or societal consequences. Carry the biggest caliber that you can shoot well and practice often

[CarlosHobbyRC]

Arm all teachers.

[TehHonda]

victim or survivor, Please choose one.

[Suicune123457]

@TehHonda Survivor

[texaspentecostal]

I am a teacher at a high school. I have a concealed handgun license but I am not allowed to carry on campus. If a shooter comes in the school he would have to go through me to get to my students obviously, but if all I am armed with is a meter stick and chalk dust, my students are lost.

[leatherneck2044]

@texaspentecostal Good point. "Gun-free shool zone" laws don't protect anybody but the shooters.

[MrMeatBullet]

Gun free zone = Victim concentration zone.

[Jimboslickster]

@MrMeatBullet yup couldnt have put it better myself

[Mudrabbit308]

@MrMeatBullet correction; gun free zone = victim concentration camp. with that being said, i bet if the jews had guns they would have been a much bigger problem to nazis

[xjtbarnesx]

"Freeze simulation."

[bailenforcer]

Well done, well said a gun free zone is in fact an invitation for a psychopath.

[tlapower]

Arm every student with paintball guns.

[shaolinwarrior87]

college students like myself with CHL should be allowed to carry on campus, especially since i was prior active in the military, people like me can respond faster than law enforcement

[4rkadi]

@jsh1284 Exactly. Gun free zones mean just the bad guys are the ones with guns.

[sovietninja3]

@4rkadi so true

[havefunletsauction]

The commentator said it correctly the signs tell the criminal no guns allowed. So Gun Free Zones are advertised Killing Zones.

Hopefully the majority of society will learn this fact and allow teachers and responsible adults to be armed ready to protect the defenseless.



[labartic]

I remember seeing the virginia tech videos where cops have cordoned off the area, you can hear gun shots in the background as the shooter is blasting students left and right, and the cops arent even moving.

The average cop is gonna go charging into a gun battle and isnt as brave as they would like us to believe. The answer is simply to allow the CCW holders to carry guns in schools.

[leatherneck2044]

@labartic Point of fact: All 33 victims and the shooter were dead before the police arrived at the scene.

[labartic]

@leatherneck2044 Oh really? Thats why I saw a video of cops setting up a cordon while gun shots go off in the background.

Did you read some history yet? Or do you still think America won ww2 for the allies

[leatherneck2044]

@labartic Point of Fact: I have two degrees in History and I have also read the Blacksburg PD rep. The shots were probably suppressing or ambient.

[leatherneck2044]

@labartic No doubt the USSR played a key role in the allied victory. but to say they "mostly won it for [the U.S.]" is just not accurate. But, thank God this is America and you have the freedom to remain ignorant if you choose to.

[labartic]

@leatherneck2044 Apparently your history schooling hasnt helped you. Anyone with real historical knowledge knows that the Germans burned themselves out fighting the soviets. So give me a break

[leatherneck2044]

@labartic DANG, all that money spent on degrees in history and I missed out on the "real historical knowledge" I could have gotten here from labartic!

[Xonegod]

Weather you praise them or loath them: Cops are absolutely useless as first responders. And those tactics shown here are suffering from a severe lack of logical thinking. They are way to slow, Team is too close together, and they are verbal giving the assailant a clear situational awareness of where they are at so they can throw ONE pipe bomb and the whole team is cooked.

The reason for the suicides is to take the power away from those who think they have it.

..X..

[ZombieX13]

No! Putting guns in schools is not controversial. Those that are against it are simply wrong. It should be allowed for permit holders.

[zack9912000]

@ZombieX13  100% There are almost police who patrol hallways in HS and it would not be necessary and cheaper to train teacher and other adults with CCW permits to carry in schools.

[D0ublezer0x]

conceal and carry

use your rights

[SHaywoodarmy]

4:08 Gun free zone place our children in danger!

[mtsEnrique]

wow, this is the first news cast on school shootings that actually addressed the issue of openly inviting mass murder due to gun free zones. Why did it take them so long to connect the dots?

[6117240]

One officer against two gunmen is not a good scenario the only way to stop school massacres is for students and teachers to be armed but that in itself is not an answer because there are stupid students who will shoot each other.

[Enderschoice]

So my school had police training and a couple teachers and students protested. They should see this.

[jacksawild]

The fact that you are at the point of saying that everyone should be armed means you've done something terribly wrong earlier. There are countries with virtually zero guncrime and very low murder rates, how can the second amendment fundies ignore this? I suppose it's the same as ignoring Darwin, comes easily to some dicks. Hurry up and shoot each other and commence shutting the fuck up.

[lalew2]

@jacksawild - what countries are these?

[mtsEnrique]

@jacksawild in switzerland any male from ages 18-40 can be called to active duty in the army. They are issued fully automatic assault rifles and have the lowest murder rate in the world. This proves that with TRAINING people can be armed without turning to mass murder around every corner.

[jacksawild]

@mtsEnrique The problem is, that the second amendment doesn't mention the need for people who own guns to be responsible. A cursory search on youtube will confirm this; it's full of Americans playing with guns. I've had some military training and the way I see weapons handled scares the hell out of me. Your own example exposes the flaws in the American system. I wouldn't care if they were killing themselves, but it's always the vulnerable and the innocent who suffer.

[mtsEnrique]

@jacksawild and I agree. Innocent blood should never be shed. But the police cant protect innocents all the time. We need to get back to the root of the problem. People need to be responsible for themselves again. Parents don't even talk about sex or drugs with there kids let alone gun safety. Most assume its the schools problem. Striping away gun rights is a step in the wrong direction. Education, Training, Self reliance, Stronger America. Not disarming and growing fearful.

[urkingod]

Ok, America ~!

[pumper34x]

911 is a great news story...for them.

LEARN TO DEFEND YOURSELF.

[etucker5007]

I was in a building next door to Norris hall at Virginia Tech. I remember thinking "I wish I had a gun" I didn't hear any shots or see any bodies, that day but it could have just as easily been me.

...I have a carry permit now

[guns4good]

This video is CASE-IN-POINT for "gun-free zones" and how absolutely RETARDED they are! If just ONE student in those auditoriums at VT had been armed (and not afraid of retribution) that shooting could have been stopped in the first classroom. Instead there are NO WEAPONS allowed signs all over the place. Funny that the psycho doing all of the shooting didn't seem to have a problem breaking the rules. GO FIGURE!

Gun-free zones EMPOWER these freaks to wreak havoc, with almost zero resistance!!

[maciverandy]

these assholes are silly...you will never stop these losers from shooting up schools...no swat training single training or any other training will help...kids these days are hopeless...

[dildertoy]

i was just thinking WTF the hole way threw this vid but now it makes sense!

[12GaugeLosAngeles]

humans are so stupid... "statistics show the longer you wait, the morw time goes by"... ha ha, cops have ar's and are still trained below the average ar owner that hits the range... you smell me? i got better aim than the average street cop.

[HKBM45]

Good story, nice to see.

[chriskc04]

Looks like they're starting to get the idea...

[callihn]

3:07, yeah I would wait because police are training to kill the person with the gun and without giving them a chance to shoot back or give up, meaning any good samaritan seen by the police with a gun on the scene are more likely than not going to get killed by the police.

The only thing that can stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.

Gun free safe zones: Providing helpless targets for mass murderers since 1991.

[MyFartsRock]

your allwoed to carry a gun. So no need for police. Go get your CCW permit. When seconds count cops and 911 are minutes away. You have the right to protect yourself and the people around you..

[ibmsony101]

You have that right only if you live in a state and a municipality that will not prosecute you. If you tried to be a hero in a most localities, you will be prosecuted and convicted by the morons who set on the jury and sentenced to pound me in ass penitentiary for man slaughter for many years. If you live in a freaking liberal ass state or even a liberal city in a conservative state, then you get what you get. Move to a conservative area and hope that the carpetbaggers stay away.

[fuckthekoolaid]

TDI is a fucking joke. A bunch of part time pigs that run a training school where they push other schools techniques as their own and take what little experience they have and blow it WAY out of proportion. I guess i shouldn't be surprised, after all its a bunch of Mayberry cops pretending to be something they are not. Have fun fucking up perfectly good Glocks and telling students they are better trained than you when using a carbine. Fucking turds.

[wist0301]

Officers who Understand this....

1. Officer Munley-Fort Hood

2.

3.

4.

Lets add to the list, or hope we dont have to.

[badduggaboy]

When second count, the police are only minutes away. "Gun free zone" = Unarmed victim zone

[XXTHE12THMANXX]

Thanfully there has no been a shooting at my school we dont have very many exits

0.o

[fuhmeregan]

Cops hide behind their cars and don't enter. the animal chink had killed his goal then himself by the time dinks-turned-vagina had trembled to the door in their bulletproof vests.

[O8SERVER]

don't be racist, asshole

[ModzArmory]

Banning guns will do nothing. Criminals will still get their hands on them and law-abiding citizens will not.

[hercprsound]

Teachers parents and students 18 and up should be armed

[aethiops007]

We need legal policies that advocate self defense for civilians in the event martial law is declared. Without the legal parameters to self-defense all this stuff is USELESS. Being paranoid is NOT helpful. As a black man, we've been disillusioned into thinking "gangsterism" is cool but in fact its self destructive. We MUST Trust is GOD!

[pkjmuas]

Don't listen to them. They are liars. Shooting no longer take place in school becuase there are "no gun signs." Hahahahahahahaha! So keep you guns at home.

[digglyda]

"The right to bear arms." That is the only bit of your constitution that I've ever heard an American mention, like it's the only line in the entire document you care about. Why is that? Why are you all so obsessed with guns? Don't try telling me that you're any safer through widespread gun ownership...for pity's sake: You're arguing about whether to allow guns in schools. In SCHOOLS?!!! You're all sick...all of you.

[norrisjointer]

Really? you've never heard an AMerican mention the "Right to freedom of speech", AKA the First amendmnent?

You must be too busy pandering to illegal Muslim Cleric's who live off your state whilst demanding it's overthrow?

God save the Queen.......

[digglyda]

Well, we're not overly alarmed by the extremist Muslim clerics over here. We have a longer history of exposure to terrorism in this country than in yours. Like the IRA trying to kill us using guns, explosives and equipment purchased using money donated by Americans.

[leatherneck2044]

American men have the courage to fight..yes, with guns....that's why we won both world wars and saved nutless wonders like you.

[digglyda]

You turned up late for both. Don't let a Russian hear you brag that YOU won WWII either...go read a history book and stop spouting bullshit. You insult the men of ALL nationalities that DID fight and die. American, British, Russian, German, French, Italian, Polish, Belgian, etc, etc...

[KlubMarcus]

Actually, not having guns in American schools is a new thing. American schools used to teach marksmanship as part of their Phys Ed program. Schools had sponsored gun clubs on campus. Guess what? There weren't any mass shootings back then. If you're a criminal, you want to strike where stupid people are left unarmed. A school makes an excellent crime scene because it's probably full of "kumbaya" teachers who don't believe in violence.

[nominalvelocity]

I know this is thread necromancy... But to answer your question to why you only hear about the 2A? It's because it's the one with the most emotion attached to it!

You don't find many people worrying about quartering troops, due process, trial by jury, civil trial by jury, excessive bail, protection of rights not specifically enumerated, or states' rights. (i.e. the rest of the bill of rights)

When you have 70% of the people worrying about 20% taking their right to arms away, you'll hear stuff!

[leatherneck2044]

Yes, we want guns in schools. IN SCHOOLS. BC that is where the shootings are taking place! Ergo, we want good citizens armed to protects students from harm. You are such a coward.

[digglyda]

Ha, ha. You americans...what is the weather like on your planet? Guns good, guns bad, more guns, less guns, guns in schools, guns on buses, guns at the shops, guns on the street, guns at home. Why are you all so damned obsessed with guns? You already have more privately owned firearms than the rest of the world combined and you also have gun deaths figures to match. You must all be terrified of your own shadows? If you arm everybody with guns you're just gonna get more deaths not less.

[leatherneck2044]

You're right. We need to be more like England and Australia. They banned guns and crime went down...oh, wait.

[digglyda]

Let's go and compare violent crime statistics for the US, England and Australia shall we? We didn't actually 'ban' guns...we've never had widespread gun ownership as part of law to start with. I wouldn't trust you to wipe your arse properly...let alone trust you to handle a firearm competently. I expect I've upset younow? you best go buy another assault rifle...or maybe an anti-tank gun...or a flamethrower?

[leatherneck2044]

If the British gun ban worked, why have Bobbies had to start carrying guns since the ban? Also, didn't we Americans and our guns win two World wars and save Britain's "arse?"

[digglyda]

Gun death comparison (homicide) 2005 figures: United States 12,000. United Kingdom (England & Wales) 50. if my statistics are wrong, please feel free to correct me? Numbers can be twisted to say all sorts of things but this seems pretty clear, guns in the United States are a big problem? You'e society is much more violent than mine. FACT.

Most British Police DO NOT routinely carry firearms.

The US DID NOT "win" two world wars.

[leatherneck2044]

God has given all good men the duty to protect their families and other innocents. That is why all good men should carry guns. I thought the UK included Scotland and Ireland. Anyway, Yes I AGREE that our society is violent, hence the need for good men to carry guns to defend the defenseless. I mean no disrespect to the fighting resolve of British troops in the WW's. Brave Britains took up arms and defeated evil men with guns, much like I intend to do by carrying my concealed gun.

[ibmsony101]

1) England & Wales pale in scale to the size and population of the US.

2) Contemporary Englishmen are mostly effeminate Whites who bend over and let the criminals or Muslim thugs have their way!

3) If you had a criminal population in the millions, many of the most violent sort, it is miracle that only 12k have died of gun shots.

4) 34,017 died in car accidents in 2008. Should Americans ban cars?

5) Why is it any of your fucking business what Americans choose to do freely with their lives?

[digglyda]

1) They don't "pale" in comparison at all. Population of the US is about 5x that of the UK. But your gun related death figures (homicide etc) are more than 200x as high as over here. What's wrong with this picture? YOU tell me?

2) Yeah, right. Ad Hominem attack on an entire population.

3)Miracle? some miracle.

4) Every year they make efforts to reduce road deaths and make vehicles/driving safer. Do they do the same for guns?

5) This is open forum on Youtube. Anyone can post an opinion.

[ibmsony101]

1) America has a higher percentage of hardened ultra violent criminals. Taking guns from the law abiding will leave them at the mercy of those who have none.

2) I do not think it is an Ad Hominem judging by the myriad of Englishmen that I encountered and my couple of visits to the UK. I think that I am spot on in fact.

3) Gang memberships are estimated to be 800k in the US and they are becoming more violent every day. Yeah it is a miracle that only 12k bought the farm.

[ibmsony101]

6) They have made gun ownership extremely difficult to 2nd to impossible in many states & municipalities. But like everything the leftist do-gooders do, it back fired. Now gun ownership is mostly for criminals in many large cities with predictable results. Hurricane Katrina & Andrew showed the stark difference between how a vulnerable unarmed population was prayed upon by small gangs of violent men who capitalized on the situation and what armed citizenry can do to stop mayhem.

[ibmsony101]

Above should be 4

5)" Yeah, but my opinion is that Europeans should keep their big noses to their selves. However, that may free time for selfreflection and pondering the grim realities of a dying continent which will be reborn as a morbid land of Islam. Americans owing guns or not is the least of your worries.

[digglyda]

...and you accused me of being "nutless" in a previous comment...cos' I don't think guns in schools are a good idea and disagree with the idea of widespread gun ownership? I'm puzzled why you think owning a gun makes you a "man" and my not owning one makes me "nutless"? Can you explain?

[leatherneck2044]

A real man is one who accepts responsibility to protect others and a gun is a useful and essential tool toward that end. Selfish cowards refuse to do their duty and thus have no need for a gun.

[digglyda]

I don't think all men are equally capable of handling a gun in difficult situations. Not all men are "warriors". Even with training, people panic or lack control when dangerous events happen. Surely, more guns means more gun deaths? For every good, real man like you that would know just what to do in a tight spot, there will be one who is a total liability and a danger to himself and everyone around him. Too much talk about the right to bear arms, not enough about the implications of that right?

[leatherneck2044]

I agree that not all people should be armed. I think you are selling yourself short: You can be a warrior if the situation demands. It's a shame that liberal propaganda has castrated men, so to speak, into being "metrosexuals." BTW, what are the gun laws in the UK? Is it across-the-board no guns at all? or no handguns?

[ibmsony101]

Come on: you are just as nutless as a harem eunuch. Owning a gun does not make you a man, but having no instinct to defend others or the courage, commitment to do so, beside refusal to attain mastery and gaining the means to that end is the clearest sign of your utter uselessness in the man department because that is the single greatest duty of a man which you refuse for yourself & others.

[digglyda]

I don't need a firearm to serve my instinct to defend myself or others. Not wishing to carry or gun a gun is no proof of lack of courage or commitment.

[ibmsony101]

If you had the instinct to defend others, what did that instinct lead you to do? Become a trained martial artist perhaps, master knife fighting techniques or what? How would you go about defending anyone, especially a vulnerable person who depends on you if ever a terrible time came when you had to? Real men consider this and act accordingly. Male proclivities to collect weapons and play fight are instinctual across cultures and history unless you were not born with a pair or yours were excised

[iansull]

as an american I am appalled at your knowledge of history.

the only world war the US was important in was WWII, and only really in the pacific where it fought essentially alone. You have to remember that the vast majority of the fighting in World War II took place between Russia and Germany. THEY fought the hardest war. Bigger than every other theater combined. 14 Germans died in the east for every German who died in the west.

[ibmsony101]

Germany would reach an armistice in WWI if the US did not tip the balance and I wish that it did not go in because Germany's defeat set the stage for WWII. If there was ever a case for Yankees staying home, it was this. However, in WWII the eastern front was more a war of attrition and not tactics, and if the US did not supply the USSR, it would have collapsed. Congratulating the Soviets on being careless with the lives of their Army who they used as canon fodder is foolish.

[ibmsony101]

Bottom line: the US was the most essential country in WWII, because it supplied the equipment, munitions, transportation, raw material and food that enabled all the allies, including Russia, England & China to keep on fighting. The eastern front was such a disaster for Germany due to the Soviet weather, the stupidity and handedness of Hitler and lack of proper preparation. The USSR threw millions of lives as Stalin and his henchmen were bloody psychos.

[iansull]

The eastern front was not a war of attrition any more than the Battle of Britain or Normandy were. and you *cannot* accuse the USSR for throwing millions of lives away and in the same breath praise the US - *cough* Normandy was the biggest "human wave" cannon fodder attack in history by a long shot.

I'd also like to point out the USSR was not dependent on US supplies, and was capable of outproducing the US at the time. The largest concentration of anti-tank guns in history? All russian made.

[ibmsony101]

Soviet officers on the eastern front held guns to the back of their soldiers to get them moving in the human waves. The US strategic deception on D-day was one of the greatest strategic deception coups ever and the US tried its best to suppress casualties and D-day is the greatest sea invasion in human history. The Germans overran the industrial and raw material heart of the USSR and American supplies helped them to keep going until they build up. Google arctic convoys of WWII.

[iansull]

the "guns at the backs of soldiers" in normandy was the english channel. two options: drown or get shot, MAYBE get lucky and make it through.

as for nazi damage to the soviet industry? if you weren't aware, the soviets actually dismantled the vast majority of their factories and MOVED them so far east the nazis would never have had a chance to hit them.

during WW2 the USSR was by far the largest producer of tanks, anti-tank munitions, etc.

[labartic]

@leatherneck2044 russia mostly won it for us.

[leatherneck2044]

@labartic With all due respect to Russia's brave fighting men and their contribution to overall victory, your statement is nonsense.

[labartic]

@leatherneck2044 haha...youre an idiot. We didnt even enter the war until late 41. Russia fought the war from the start. The German army broke against Stalingrad, the greatest armored battle occurred at Kursk and their armored force was essentially wiped out. They lost millions of troops fighting the soviets. The majority of their efforts were in the East.

Go read a history book. It was the soviet union and their 10+ million losses that mostly defeated Germany, we just helped.

[sovietninja3]

@labartic thats not entirely true. USA and britain got into france on d day and liberated all of france after that. that battle was a major turning point in the war. before that, the US defeated italy. Germany couldnt get into moscow cuz they coulnt take the cold. USA didnt go to Berlin cuz tthey new it was gonna be a blood bath and didnt let Patton continue, and let the Russians kill them selves

[4rkadi]

@sovietninja3 - And kill themselves they did! The Ostfront made the entire European field of combat look like a dayspa by comparison. The Ruskies really won the war against Germany proper. US/Britain/Canada mostly beat up on Germany's special-ed Nazi cousins: Hungarians, Lithuanians, Iraqis, Italians, etc.

Germany's failure in Russia was due to scorched earth tactics, a bitter winter, and Hitler's ADD planning that changed objectives every other week. That, and Zhukov tearin' their shit up.

[takeastepoutside]

@leatherneck2044 the british gun ban didnt work, they had a 25 percent increase in home invasions immediately following the disarming of the people

[ibmsony101]

Several Englands can fit in a mid-sized American state and Australias populations are very small and widespread. The US has been historically a hard land for hard men of all races (Whites, Native Indians, Blacks and Hispanics) and was formed through strife. The US has some of the most hardened violent criminals in the world and has more of them than any country. If you lived in a land of large ravenous predators, would you go around unarmed?

[digglyda]

Most of the instances of US citizens "going postal" usually involve individuals using legally owned firearms. The rights and laws to carry put those weapons into the hands of those that then used them criminally. You say that all "good" people should go armed to prevent school massacres happening? How do you know "good" from "bad". More guns means more gun deaths ...more guns in schools means more gun deaths in schools.

[ibmsony101]

Crazy people still can easily enough mix explosives or chem weapons in their basements, or would you ban the sale of fertilizers, fuels and basic chemicals. The world is full of hazards, but as Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." In the US constitution the right to bare arms comes 2nd to free speech because if you cannot protect something then it not yours.

[lalew2]

@digglyda - so with your logic- we should ban cars? There are more automobile deaths than gun deaths.

[lalew2]

@digglyda - with your logic then we should ban cars since they cause more deaths than guns.

[digglyda]

Actually, the death rates per capita (fatality per 1000 populace are extremely similar for automobiles & guns in the USA:

Gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people

Car deaths in 2001 was 14.80 per 100,000 people

Bear in mind that cars are used by a much larger number of individuals on a day to day basis for longer periods of time than is case for firearm usage.

[ibmsony101]

Listen fool: Muslims will take over the UK in a couple of decades as fools like yourself are no threat to them. Leftists like yourself are subsidizing your own slavery and destruction. Freedom is not free and it is bought with rivers of blood of both patriots and tyrants. Peace can only be achieved with deterrence.

[digglyda]

Wait: We haven't given up our guns because we have never had a history of an armed civil populace in the first place.

Taking up arms to safeguard your rights or heritage is not the same thing as having access to weapons at all times.

[ibmsony101]

And that is why a bunch of farmers who happened to be excellent marksmen sent the greatest imperial army packing to your weathering shores. Also, that is why the Japanese feared invading the American West coast at a time even young children were handy with guns. You have to thank those farmers who inspired the end of aristocratic rule of old Europe, liberating the lower classes.

[leatherneck2044]

How many Columbine, Virginia Tech students were dead before the police even arrived? Let us carry!

[BEARaCOODA]

I agree

[daswaim]

Arm the School level admins who hold a Weapons license.

[AmokBR]

GUNSSSSS

[Riflemanm16a2]

That's why "gun free zones" are fucking stupid. They are basically just signs that say "Mass shooters welcome!" WHY WOULD YOU ADVERTISE OR EVEN MAKE A GUN FREE ZONE? People who intend on actually using the gun for criminal acts are going to do it anyway!

[Yonatan77777]

More civilians with guns = less dead civilians and cops.

[bandcookie88]

LEOS usually see the nature of reality and how stupid it is for people not to be armed. it's the truly stupid people that say we should cater to criminals.

[1ONE5FIVE]

There is a lot of truth to the statement about the signs and gun free zones. I just returned from active shooter school and they did not mention that. I guess I learned something new today. Haha.

[kutthroat9081]

F**kin' A! I totally agree ClassicFIH!

[ClassicFIHD]

To me a "first responder" is a student with a concealed gun.

[49ErnieSch]

A sickeningly liberal woman once asked me why I carry a gun. I replied "Cops are too heavy"

[gizm0steve]

"freeze simulation... unfreeze"

does he think he's on a star trek holodeck or something? lol

[kenbstepp]

Lets not advertise that you can kill us all we are unarmed. Arm people that are willing to take some training and get rid of the signs. I have had to take a life to save others. I'd do it again if I had too. Some people deserve to die.

[gdcleanfun]

Finally, a news report that gets it right!

[phillyforever]

i know its rare to the new give a fair and balence view of the gun of the gun issue and even more rare to see the news to show the reality of the so called ''gun free zone''

[koriko88]

Hey hey hey, big surprise! When seconds count, SWAT will be there in time to take a body count. The only person around to protect you 24 hours a day - and most hours of the day at all - is you. Until they invent the PocketCop, that's just going to be the way it is.

[DJSedSo]

You are so right. Also, I'd like to share a brief, important history of law enforcement:

England's first police force, in London, was not instituted until 1827. The first such forces in America followed in New York, Boston, and Philadelphia during the period between 1835 and 1845. They were established only to augment citizen self-protection. It was never intended that they act affirmatively, prior to or during criminal activity or violence against individual citizens.

[DJSedSo]

(Continued) Their duty was to protect society as a whole by deterrence; i.e., by systematically patrolling, detecting and apprehending criminals after the occurrence of crimes. There was no thought of police displacing the citizens' right of self-protection. Nor could they, even if it were intended.

These excerpts come from "Police Have No Duty To Protect Individuals" by Peter Kasler. This is a GRAVELY IMPORTANT read on how WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN PROTECTION AND OF THOSE CLOSE TO US!

[Bound4NH]

Police response doesn't require SWAT officers with special gear and high speed tactical training, it just requires an armed response.

Likewise, armed teachers, parents, and adult students needn't have military or LEO experience; they just need for the government to STOP DISARMING THEM.

Active shooters, as noted, are cowards who usually kill themselves at the first armed resistance. That armed resistance doesn't need a badge behind it, it just needs to be armed and determined.

[ebolachimp]

School shootings simply can't happen! Guns aren't allowed on school grounds!

[fivepiece]

I find it frightening and sickening that it has taken this long for our "officials" to reach a conclusion that simple fucking common sense has led the rest of us to. Honestly, I can't believe this is NEWS.

[orygunner1]

Gun free zones are DEFENSE FREE ZONES. How many more school shootings do we need before we allow trained teachers to carry firearms!? They're not going to snap and start shooting students like the Brady Campaign cries. WE ALREADY trust our teachers with our children's lives, let's allow them the best tools to protect our children!

[squish3r]

So, make that "gun free" zone not so "gun free" anymore. In the case of grade/high schools, allow those members of faculty/staff with the desire and training to carry, and in the case of colleges and universities, allow those students AND faculty and staff who can carry to do so. (Almost everyone is legally an adult by the time they get to uni, so how is that different than being in public?)

Armed resistance stops the shooter MUCH faster than waiting for LEOs.

[mzmadmike]

When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

[idontcare3333]

Wow, a news story that tells the truth. Am I dreamaing. Great report

[wait887]

maybe one day people won't be focused on disarming victims.