Hey I love key, ogre, dave rave and reznor, coil, gristle & muslimgauze. but this song/vid is no different than starf*ckers in theme and content. they all eat and digest the same music, angst and world views. it all just comes out in their own way. neither is better or worse or more/less original than the other. It's all just music. music fanatics are just as bad as religious fanatics.
The issue that Ogre wrote about Trent is because of a project they both worked on called Pig, where Trent royally fucked Ogre. Hence the Pig walking over Ogre in the video.
i agree it's about those guys, but they're not specifically targeting manson's and trent's "rip-off" of skinny puppy, or else eminem wouldn't be here. it's more about each artist's integrity in releasing quality music instead of what sells.
also I'm a bit upset about the trent stab...with regard to his music it's very well developed and doesn't sound much like skinny puppy or any other band at all...in fact i highly dislike that people compare the two on every nin and sp video that i see.
it's comparable because of the sound of old nin, im pretty trent has even said that down in it was "highly inspired" by dig it, but either way, with out sp there would be no nin. although today they are completely different, trent try's to polish turds and insist they are "artistic" and sp remains relevant
sure, but he did not rip sp off, and this was written wayyyy later than that phase. and i still don't agree. they are both amazing artists who write music for themselves.
i don't care what any of you think, but this song is about trent and marilyn hanson and it hits the nail right on the head. they or anyone else will never fill Ogre or Uncle Al's shoes
you two need lives, this video is great and its sad to view comments like this.
Your really only putting your self down by caring as to what others think about you on youtube. There not even intelligent based discussions. Just rabble.
Regardless of whatever, Skinny Puppy, Ohgr, its some of the most innovative creative music i've ever heard, my biggest inspiration musically. its the closest thing to art in music ive ever heard.
ok then genius besides david bowie, what do you think influenced his sound, lets see, how about sp, ministry, revolting cocks, maybe some old school kmfdm. any band on wax trax dummy!
oh and by changing his style you mean forgetting who put him on to begin with, forgetting who taught him how to play his instruments, and forgetting why he started making music in the first place (to be like ministry) (see waxtrax 1st 13 years for proof)
this is such an amazing piece...wow...you know i've seen it time and time again...but for some reason its hitting its point hardest today! wow! great vid! great song! great artist!...key word there...artist
this song is fab - those dicks who think otherwise better beware cos i've psychic powers.
lusid's my fave tho
still can't beat the puppies
can't believe the guy below who believe its 'ripped off'. needs education in how long ogre has been around and how many people (all of us, i think) have ripped off him.
Message to Ogre: profit is not always synonymous with selling out. Trent Reznor makes more money than you. Stop being such a big pussy and get over it already.
Hi tfwotfwotfwotfwo. I'm a square, so I was unable to identify your handle tfwo. Tfwo is an acronym for what . . . The Fucking World's Over? Help me out on that one. My next ? 4 u is, which one is the correct lyric: "it's so DILUTED" or "it's so DELUDED"? I know that I've already asked a lot of you but I have one final request. Would you please join forces w/me to kick clout9sangel's ass? I would greatly appreciate your partnership for dealing with this matter aggressively and effectively.
i bet you suck dick aggressively, and effectively. and i bet marilyn hanson is your hero. go suck his tits and wipe the lipsDick off your face. your a fuckin toy. how come your music isn't on youtube?b/c people will dish out the same insults while they boo you off line. leave industrial music to the masters. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY GENRE!
Hey fu+die-yup-scum. Despite all of your homophobic insults, I kind of like you man. We should get together one wkend. I'll get you drunk and when you're not looking I'll slip you a roofie so that I can have my way w/you. It will be a lot of fun, for both of us. The music that I'm currently involved with includes some elements of industrial but I wouldn't use that genre to classify it. My band will be up on youtube at some point. I'm really not as gay as you think. Approx. 1-2 dicks a month.
good job morbid jimmy i'm proud of you. the first step is admitting that you love the cock. now since you are gay and you know i'm not, the second step is to find some one who is. next sign up to glaad or some gay rights shit to march in those parades. sorry though i don't swing that way but your boyfriend hanson will always be there for you. i just wonder, who plays the bitch in the relationship? lastly, i do recommend you get that morbid jimmy checked out at the free clinic before it rots away
ok i guess your small mind ran out of your half-assed insults so your gonna try and use mine now. i think you should take your own advice and practice what you preach. at least the world won't have to worry about you breeding, being with hanson and all. but don't worry! with obama in the white house now, he's proposing that gay marraige be allowed so you and marilyn hanson can live happily ever after! you never did answer me. who plays the female in your love affair?
Well fu+die-yupskum, I was just beginning to have a little fun w/you and your dedication to this trivial rivalry but now you're slowly killing me w/boredom. Be sure to keep the vasectomy appt. that I arranged for you & don't ask for a 2nd script of vikes.
sorry morbid jimmy i took a day off from listening to your second grade insults. the last email i read from you seems like you are falling back to kindergarten. oh, and that Vise-Sect-Omy appointment you scheduled me for need not apply. your sister or your mother called (i can't tell the 2 whores apart) and told me that their pregnant. guess who knocked both of them up?
i take a day off from your second grade comebacks to find some half-assed kindergarten heel nippers? dude, if i could give you any advice it would be to break out of that 70% deluded catagory. you are the worst rival i've ever put down on youtube. you can't respond to my questions! what a fuckin toy! NOW GO TO YOUR ROOM!
That always seems to happen after somone becomes popular. Everyone who isn't invited along for the ride was ripped off. But hey, I'm sure it's just a coincidence!
Well its great skinny puppy has sold for records than Trent, whatever that means. It's great that my belief that people often get bitter and jealous and act on it is overlooked. It's even better when people confuse influence and ripped off because they too are jealous, even when it doesn't imply...them!
Excuse me nininchnails (btw, major points for the ultra-original handle), were you drunk when you wrote the "ripped off" comment? Back in the day, Trent, Al, Nivek & co. were all members of the same inner circle. And Trent has admitted more than once in rock mag. interviews that some of his songs were purposely similar sounding to the work of Ministry, Skinny Puppy and Depeche Mode. This song & vid is an example of Ogre being a big baby, crying about a very insignificant statement.
Regardless of my dig on Ogre, I remain a fan of all of his work (I never said that I didn't like this song or vid) from every musical project that he's been involved in.
thats right! all you will ever be is a fan. not an innovator, a fanatic if you must. why don't you go stalk all your idols like the papparazi or some shit. you will never be nothing but a wannabe. sucks to be you morbid jimmy. sounds like some kind of STD you got from marilyn hanson. remember- there should be a free clinic in your town to get that treated! STAY OFF THE DICK!
your the big baby. just another makeup wearin gothic/emo crybaby tryin to talk shit b/c your insecure. do you have self esteem now, son? i didn't think so. so go cut yourself just like the rest of your colleagues do to take your mind off that pain. i bet your music is made with "fruity loops" since you love trent so much why the fuck are you here? go watch Al's interview about trent. then play russian roulette you techno fag! STOP BITCHING! START A REVOLUTION
XanatharEye, down boy. OK, so you've got a hard-on for Ogre. I've been a fan of SP since 86 so my comment about Ogre being a pussy was quite objective. Also XanatharEye, you should do your research before making unfounded comments. As of 07, NIN has sold 10.5 million units and SP's record sales don't even come close to that number.
yo dude if you give a fuck about how many records have been sold, then you listen for the wrong reasons. it doesn't make the song any less true! it's so diluted give it up. sp's idea from the beginning was fuck off. "your not going to like this, so fuck off"
OK clout9sangel. I think that it's time for you to remove the black nail polish, you're "so diluted give it up" and hang up your black lace brassiere. You're conversing with a dedicated fan who has an interest in all aspects of the music that I listen to . . . the business end included. I'm sorry that your focus is so narrow and constricted.
oh so jimmymorbid you are the music expert. deluted or diluted, either way you don't have the ability to see the truth in this song. clout9 is my old lady and i know for a fact she can kick you and your army of trendy pissed off "hot-emo-goth-topic" fools back to your "new rock" radio station. we're grown folks here, why don't you go back to marilyn hanson and nin or better yet put on your rollerblades, tie the slip knot around your neck, kick the chair, then do what my name says bitch!
You and Marilyn Hanson are the ones who need to hang up the black brassieres since your queer asses arent suppose to be wearing them anyways you fuckin transvesDikes!!! Oh and you two SheMales need to quit huffing the black finger nail polish. Or better yet keep huffing it until the other one is starting to look pretty, then maybe it won't make you feel bad for being such a cum guzzler!!
YOU DO IT! You said it yourself, nothing but a deDICated fan/follower, how ever you want to sugarcoat that shit. For fuck's sake stop ridin the dilsnick, your chaffing the willy! Use some lube for Christ's sake. i'm glad your urethra is so narrow and constricted so you can't breed. "whats that you hide behind your violent shit?"
great animation. i think it inspired lightglobal meltdown by pokerstrom
calabiyou 3 weeks ago
LMFAO!!
TheJesseGladSaget 3 months ago
Thinking you're evil when your not is evil
cannibalvector 9 months ago
Hey I love key, ogre, dave rave and reznor, coil, gristle & muslimgauze. but this song/vid is no different than starf*ckers in theme and content. they all eat and digest the same music, angst and world views. it all just comes out in their own way. neither is better or worse or more/less original than the other. It's all just music. music fanatics are just as bad as religious fanatics.
fatchick1o9 11 months ago
brilliant video. love the references.
earx23 1 year ago
and too everyone getting pissed off, trent and ohgr r good friends and it wasn't Ohgr
that put it in the vido, it was the guy who made it. So relax
ryankilleleagh 1 year ago
wow all these comments are funny. you nin fans are taking it so personal. do you understand analogy?
fatalposition 1 year ago
i bet if emminem saw this video he would get mad lol
TheSystem092 1 year ago
wow this song is almost 10 years old
AntiMusick 1 year ago
The issue that Ogre wrote about Trent is because of a project they both worked on called Pig, where Trent royally fucked Ogre. Hence the Pig walking over Ogre in the video.
psion 2 years ago
@psion you must be thinking of the song they did together with Pigface called Suck look for the video on here, or on the Pigface Glitch video comp.
AntiMusick 1 year ago
@psion sure it wasn't pigface? pig was Raymond watts project.
fatalposition 1 year ago
@psion your an idiot.
vectro242 1 year ago
i adore this song-
robotaholic 2 years ago
i agree it's about those guys, but they're not specifically targeting manson's and trent's "rip-off" of skinny puppy, or else eminem wouldn't be here. it's more about each artist's integrity in releasing quality music instead of what sells.
also I'm a bit upset about the trent stab...with regard to his music it's very well developed and doesn't sound much like skinny puppy or any other band at all...in fact i highly dislike that people compare the two on every nin and sp video that i see.
noronahahaha 2 years ago
it's comparable because of the sound of old nin, im pretty trent has even said that down in it was "highly inspired" by dig it, but either way, with out sp there would be no nin. although today they are completely different, trent try's to polish turds and insist they are "artistic" and sp remains relevant
Ampyre 2 years ago
sure, but he did not rip sp off, and this was written wayyyy later than that phase. and i still don't agree. they are both amazing artists who write music for themselves.
noronahahaha 2 years ago
@noronahahaha sure it wasn't pigface? pig was Raymond watts project.
fatalposition 1 year ago
look at 1:27 ^^
NIN
legolas1w 2 years ago
WHAT A TUNE!
PauliiiB 2 years ago
i don't care what any of you think, but this song is about trent and marilyn hanson and it hits the nail right on the head. they or anyone else will never fill Ogre or Uncle Al's shoes
fukuandieyuppieskum 2 years ago
you two need lives, this video is great and its sad to view comments like this.
Your really only putting your self down by caring as to what others think about you on youtube. There not even intelligent based discussions. Just rabble.
Circasurvive20 2 years ago 6
i think you all take the lyrics and video way too seriously.
bezerkerr 3 years ago
wow ya'll have quite a stupid argument gone on their, well just to let ya'll know ohgr, skinny puppy, nin, and marilyn manson are all badass.
bezerkerr 3 years ago
you are the cracker ogre is talking about
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
i am, he told me he wrote this song after he met me
bezerkerr 3 years ago 2
ladies and gentlemen, morbid jimmy has left the building to go get checked out at the free clinic! let's hope its gohnoherpesyphillaids!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Regardless of whatever, Skinny Puppy, Ohgr, its some of the most innovative creative music i've ever heard, my biggest inspiration musically. its the closest thing to art in music ive ever heard.
joyxdivizion 3 years ago 2
this song is just genious and the vid is fucking trippy as hell!!
I love it! <333
Adrienneizmyname 3 years ago
trent follows no one, and changed his style while you havnt.
positivesecret 3 years ago
ok then genius besides david bowie, what do you think influenced his sound, lets see, how about sp, ministry, revolting cocks, maybe some old school kmfdm. any band on wax trax dummy!
oh and by changing his style you mean forgetting who put him on to begin with, forgetting who taught him how to play his instruments, and forgetting why he started making music in the first place (to be like ministry) (see waxtrax 1st 13 years for proof)
clout9sangel 3 years ago
today for lunch i had a baked potato with sour cream and chives and ive been having gas allday.
positivesecret 3 years ago
put some water on that shit!!!!!!!!!
clout9sangel 3 years ago
I have to admit I enjoy how this vid seems to lambast former collaboraters Ministry and NIN
capthowdy355 3 years ago
Scuse me, somebody could explain the direction of the lyrics ? I dont speak very good english ^^
titouuu 3 years ago
shit, my name is nivek and i was named after this guy.
kingofthieve92 3 years ago
Fuckin Weirdo... but original ^ ^ luv it
NyappyMiruku 3 years ago 2
I love NIN but OhGr adn Skinny Puppy are better. They're more original. Just like the song says. :D
lvaprile 4 years ago 10
@lvaprile TRUE iVE been a listener for about twenty years then trent came out later which he isn't bad but he doesn't go deep with his music.
rubster1206 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Wow look at all the closet Ninnies on here slagging off Nik for mocking their idol.
hocico101 4 years ago
orinality DOES exist. never mind postmodern twaddle. sp are original - live with it.
rickster69 4 years ago 3
couldn't haveve said it better myself Austin, truly magnificent video. Great lyrics implemented with an profound array of visuals.
MonsterHorrorBoy 4 years ago 2
this is such an amazing piece...wow...you know i've seen it time and time again...but for some reason its hitting its point hardest today! wow! great vid! great song! great artist!...key word there...artist
AustinKronix 4 years ago 2
y isent SP popular they have a very original tunes and sounds fucking sweet Fuck the ppl who thinks otherwize
orrises 4 years ago
this song is fab - those dicks who think otherwise better beware cos i've psychic powers.
lusid's my fave tho
still can't beat the puppies
can't believe the guy below who believe its 'ripped off'. needs education in how long ogre has been around and how many people (all of us, i think) have ripped off him.
ah well...
rickster69 4 years ago
Message to Ogre: profit is not always synonymous with selling out. Trent Reznor makes more money than you. Stop being such a big pussy and get over it already.
jimmymorbid 4 years ago
that's not true
XanatharEye 4 years ago
I don't care what all these people say, this is an awesome song and the video is kinda cool. It's different I think. You guys suck!
weeinersauce 4 years ago
it's unoriginal.
tfwotfwotfwotfwo 4 years ago
dear david ogilvie. you modeled your solo album after other people's work. you simply "updated" your sound. it's so deluded, give it up.
tfwotfwotfwotfwo 4 years ago
are you addressing your message to Ogre? If so, his real name is Kevin Ogilivie, not David.
j7609 4 years ago
Hi tfwotfwotfwotfwo. I'm a square, so I was unable to identify your handle tfwo. Tfwo is an acronym for what . . . The Fucking World's Over? Help me out on that one. My next ? 4 u is, which one is the correct lyric: "it's so DILUTED" or "it's so DELUDED"? I know that I've already asked a lot of you but I have one final request. Would you please join forces w/me to kick clout9sangel's ass? I would greatly appreciate your partnership for dealing with this matter aggressively and effectively.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
i bet you suck dick aggressively, and effectively. and i bet marilyn hanson is your hero. go suck his tits and wipe the lipsDick off your face. your a fuckin toy. how come your music isn't on youtube?b/c people will dish out the same insults while they boo you off line. leave industrial music to the masters. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY GENRE!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Comment removed
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
Hey fu+die-yup-scum. Despite all of your homophobic insults, I kind of like you man. We should get together one wkend. I'll get you drunk and when you're not looking I'll slip you a roofie so that I can have my way w/you. It will be a lot of fun, for both of us. The music that I'm currently involved with includes some elements of industrial but I wouldn't use that genre to classify it. My band will be up on youtube at some point. I'm really not as gay as you think. Approx. 1-2 dicks a month.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
good job morbid jimmy i'm proud of you. the first step is admitting that you love the cock. now since you are gay and you know i'm not, the second step is to find some one who is. next sign up to glaad or some gay rights shit to march in those parades. sorry though i don't swing that way but your boyfriend hanson will always be there for you. i just wonder, who plays the bitch in the relationship? lastly, i do recommend you get that morbid jimmy checked out at the free clinic before it rots away
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Thank you for the astute medical advice
fu+die-yupskum. Damn that name is a mouthful. Please make sure not to do any breeding anytime soon. It will make the world a better place to live in.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
ok i guess your small mind ran out of your half-assed insults so your gonna try and use mine now. i think you should take your own advice and practice what you preach. at least the world won't have to worry about you breeding, being with hanson and all. but don't worry! with obama in the white house now, he's proposing that gay marraige be allowed so you and marilyn hanson can live happily ever after! you never did answer me. who plays the female in your love affair?
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Well fu+die-yupskum, I was just beginning to have a little fun w/you and your dedication to this trivial rivalry but now you're slowly killing me w/boredom. Be sure to keep the vasectomy appt. that I arranged for you & don't ask for a 2nd script of vikes.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
Dicks R 4 Chicks!!!
You Silly Faggot!
clout9sangel 3 years ago
I guess I'll never fail to be amazed by the cleverness of the youtube nation.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
40% CLEVER
70% DELUDED
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
sorry morbid jimmy i took a day off from listening to your second grade insults. the last email i read from you seems like you are falling back to kindergarten. oh, and that Vise-Sect-Omy appointment you scheduled me for need not apply. your sister or your mother called (i can't tell the 2 whores apart) and told me that their pregnant. guess who knocked both of them up?
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
i take a day off from your second grade comebacks to find some half-assed kindergarten heel nippers? dude, if i could give you any advice it would be to break out of that 70% deluded catagory. you are the worst rival i've ever put down on youtube. you can't respond to my questions! what a fuckin toy! NOW GO TO YOUR ROOM!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
You better gather up an Emo Army you douche bag And you better pack your Lunchbox cause its going to take all day!@!!
clout9sangel 3 years ago
this song is brilliant! must be a hit!
replicas79 4 years ago
yes, just so all you newbs understand, this is about trent reznor's shameless ripping off of Skinny Puppy, Ministry, and Front Line Assembly
XanatharEye 4 years ago
That always seems to happen after somone becomes popular. Everyone who isn't invited along for the ride was ripped off. But hey, I'm sure it's just a coincidence!
nininchnails 4 years ago
skinny puppy has never been on the Top 40, but STILL ahs sold for records than Trent Reznor, MORON.
XanatharEye 4 years ago
Well its great skinny puppy has sold for records than Trent, whatever that means. It's great that my belief that people often get bitter and jealous and act on it is overlooked. It's even better when people confuse influence and ripped off because they too are jealous, even when it doesn't imply...them!
nininchnails 4 years ago 3
Excuse me nininchnails (btw, major points for the ultra-original handle), were you drunk when you wrote the "ripped off" comment? Back in the day, Trent, Al, Nivek & co. were all members of the same inner circle. And Trent has admitted more than once in rock mag. interviews that some of his songs were purposely similar sounding to the work of Ministry, Skinny Puppy and Depeche Mode. This song & vid is an example of Ogre being a big baby, crying about a very insignificant statement.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
Regardless of my dig on Ogre, I remain a fan of all of his work (I never said that I didn't like this song or vid) from every musical project that he's been involved in.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
thats right! all you will ever be is a fan. not an innovator, a fanatic if you must. why don't you go stalk all your idols like the papparazi or some shit. you will never be nothing but a wannabe. sucks to be you morbid jimmy. sounds like some kind of STD you got from marilyn hanson. remember- there should be a free clinic in your town to get that treated! STAY OFF THE DICK!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
your the big baby. just another makeup wearin gothic/emo crybaby tryin to talk shit b/c your insecure. do you have self esteem now, son? i didn't think so. so go cut yourself just like the rest of your colleagues do to take your mind off that pain. i bet your music is made with "fruity loops" since you love trent so much why the fuck are you here? go watch Al's interview about trent. then play russian roulette you techno fag! STOP BITCHING! START A REVOLUTION
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
I feel a lot of hate in these comments. I like it.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
yea you like that don't ya bitch
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Yes. Give me more master.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
BOW DOWN! WHO'S YOUR MASTER?
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
XanatharEye, down boy. OK, so you've got a hard-on for Ogre. I've been a fan of SP since 86 so my comment about Ogre being a pussy was quite objective. Also XanatharEye, you should do your research before making unfounded comments. As of 07, NIN has sold 10.5 million units and SP's record sales don't even come close to that number.
jimmymorbid 4 years ago 4
yo dude if you give a fuck about how many records have been sold, then you listen for the wrong reasons. it doesn't make the song any less true! it's so diluted give it up. sp's idea from the beginning was fuck off. "your not going to like this, so fuck off"
clout9sangel 3 years ago
OK clout9sangel. I think that it's time for you to remove the black nail polish, you're "so diluted give it up" and hang up your black lace brassiere. You're conversing with a dedicated fan who has an interest in all aspects of the music that I listen to . . . the business end included. I'm sorry that your focus is so narrow and constricted.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
oh so jimmymorbid you are the music expert. deluted or diluted, either way you don't have the ability to see the truth in this song. clout9 is my old lady and i know for a fact she can kick you and your army of trendy pissed off "hot-emo-goth-topic" fools back to your "new rock" radio station. we're grown folks here, why don't you go back to marilyn hanson and nin or better yet put on your rollerblades, tie the slip knot around your neck, kick the chair, then do what my name says bitch!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
I Love You!!!
clout9sangel 3 years ago
Love you too kitty kat!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
You and Marilyn Hanson are the ones who need to hang up the black brassieres since your queer asses arent suppose to be wearing them anyways you fuckin transvesDikes!!! Oh and you two SheMales need to quit huffing the black finger nail polish. Or better yet keep huffing it until the other one is starting to look pretty, then maybe it won't make you feel bad for being such a cum guzzler!!
clout9sangel 3 years ago
I can't believe how serious everyone is with these comments. Guys. Please. Lay off the testosterone.
jimmymorbid 3 years ago
dumbass don't start no shit won't be no shit. don't throw stones living in a glass house.
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
YOU DO IT! You said it yourself, nothing but a deDICated fan/follower, how ever you want to sugarcoat that shit. For fuck's sake stop ridin the dilsnick, your chaffing the willy! Use some lube for Christ's sake. i'm glad your urethra is so narrow and constricted so you can't breed. "whats that you hide behind your violent shit?"
Fuckin yuppie, get killed!
fukuandieyuppieskum 3 years ago
Comment removed
emphryio 5 years ago
Ogre appears on
Signal To Noise: Reinforced Industrial HitsOrig. release, 2006
MSimpltns2cntz 5 years ago
kraftwerk on acid
keithbyrne 5 years ago
2 Borderline ((McDonalds Song
Artist: Ogre $0.99
MSimpltns2cntz 5 years ago
Wow, that probably upset a few fanboys and girls. But you can't argue with the truth, can you?
SquirrelNoir 5 years ago
that made no sense
mrcardgage 5 years ago
no kidding
rezzy333 5 years ago
how ironic.
kevinm4435 5 years ago