© Thales Goalkeeper

[geonerd]

I'd like to see how the various CWIS systems perform against a missile that is maneuvering as it approaches its target. Watching videos, it seems that many of the kills require the gun to spray bullets for a second or two before a deciding hit is scored. If the missile follows a wildly erratic path, will the gun be able to hit it before it goes BOOM?

[mininow]

@geonerd AFAIK, missiles always go straight, turns just slow them down.

[sh4k3r]

and then it runs out of ammo...

[nus]

if you look at the distance 2:00 just amazing

[Caleb6543]

I knew it! Soccer IS war!

[hardgrower]

4200 shots a minute, that is... 70 shots a second!

[lmooij]

:D Go dutchies!!!

[pakruy]

Très jolie gadget



[jayzo4444]

so wat if u had friendlys in the line of fire??

[Maxables]

@jayzo4444 In that case, I think you'd be unable to fire without risking the lives of the crew on the other ship

[SmartRsSoul]

Put one if these in every major town square. Programme to pick up any drunks and idiots fighting. Anti social behaviour solved !!!!

Might hit a few innocent bystanders so best develop a little first.

[justforever96]

@SmartRsSoul Yeah....that's smart. Sure. Maybe a somewhat smaller caliber weapon would do the trick well enough? Maybe a GE Minigun?

I hope you don't plan on walking by it...unless you're really sure the computer can tell the difference between a drunk and a retard. Otherwise, you're history.

It's kind of funny how someone like you can act as if you dislike "anti-social behavior", while the solution you suggest involves a machine for blasting people on the spot without trial. Slightly ironic?

[kennnmoran]

So, do you want one, or dont you want one?

[Cg23sailor]

The danger from DU rounds is not from radioactivity. but from its poisonous qualities as a HEAVY METAL. Just as LEAD is a poisonous heavy metal.

[Cg23sailor]

Several have mentioned Depleted Uranium.

Depleted Uranium rounds are not "radioactive waste" as many think. DU is the result of the enrichment process to create nuclear fuel. DU is what is left over from natural uranium after the radioactive isotopes are removed for use as fuel. what is left behind in the Isotope of Uranium that has very little radioactivity and is NOT used for fuel.

[justforever96]

I dunno; I always wonder how one of these CICWS systems would work against 4-5 missiles. Or a few supersonic Moskit missiles? I guess that's the risks of war.

I wonder if they really do use the depleted Uranium shells for this? Those were designed to punch through tank armor. I think the standard HEAP-I would work fine for missile-killing. Even the "practice" ammo, steel with a aluminum body, would kill a missile. They aren't tough targets, just hard to hit.

[Morbidrod]

GK is last/final option in a layered defence. So there shouldn't be the need of targetting more than 1,2 maybe3 missiles. They rounds are actually 20mm tungsten, fired with the power of a 30mm shell and have a specific shape for better penetration of the missile. So no depleted uranium.

[justforever96]

@Morbidrod -Thanks man. So it's still a 30mm barrel, firing 20mm sabot? Or is it rebarreled to 20mm? I remember now reading about how they switched to tungsten because everyone was whining about the "radioactive waste"" and all that. Anyway, that's really interesting.

[Cg23sailor]

@justforever96 DU rounds are NOT "radioactive waste". At least for the US Navy, the reason we switched from DU penetrators to tungston is that there was no need for the armor penetration abilities with DU. Missiles are not armored and it would take more hits per engagement to actually destroy the target as the armor piercers pass right through the target.

[justforever96]

@Cg23sailor- I know DU isn't radioactive waste. Hence the quotation marks I put around it. And I may be wrong, but I BELIEVE that tungsten works just as well as the DU does as a penetrator round, or close to as well. They do make a HE-I round for the 30mm in the A-10, or they DID. I was wondering if they used those on the missiles instead of the penetrator rounds, since HE would do a lot of damage to a light target like that.

[Cg23sailor]

@justforever96 - While Tungsten is a hardened penetrator, it is not nearly as armor penetrating as DU. To the best of my knowledge, the Mk-15 Phalanx CIWS system used by the US Navy does use Tungsten rounds. But then my Firsthand knowledge dates from 1995. But online I can find no sources to discredit the statement.

[Cg23sailor]

@justforever96 - Also My knowlegde is only of the MK-15 Phalanx CIWS, not the 30mm Goalkeeper. The Mk-15 is a 20mm barrel firing a subcaliber 15mm discarding sabot round. Not sure if they make an HE-I round in that caliber. As to whether the Goalkeeper uses it or not, I have no clue.

[RonnieJamesable]

@Cg23sailor Yes it does. It uses a TPDS or Tugstun Projectile Discarding Sabot round. Meanwhile, 30mm ammunition for medium range Oerlikons is often TP/TPT Training Practice/ Tracer rounds. HE and HET in a 1 in 6 or 1 in 10 configuration. Were you on the USS HALSEY? I'm ex Royal Navy and worked on Goalkeeper on HMS CAMPBELTOWN & CHATHAM ( why have I capitalised ships names?, I'm not writing in a log, am i? old habits..... Worked with the USN a few times, good days in the PX in Rota, Spain.

[Cg23sailor]

@RonnieJamesable

Yes, I served aboard Halsey from 91-94 and her decommissioning, Later I served aboard Kitty Hawk.

Only opportunity I had to work with the Royal Navy was in the Gulf, A shipmate and I took a tour of HMS Southhampton and gave a tour of ours, while both were inport at Mina Suleman in Bahrain.

Well designed vessels.

[RonnieJamesable]

@Cg23sailor kitty Hawk eh? big ships man! my dad was on Ark Royal which was only 40,000 tonnes. He was a "greeny" or an Ordnance Electrical Mechanic. We were talking the other day about the role of frigates and destroyers in a carrier battle group, and I said "the destroyers are primarily for air defence, dad, that's why you would have always been in company with Glamorgan or Devenshire"

"Really..?" he said ".... I thought they were only there for us to play football against!"

Sailors, eh!

[k2477456]

@RonnieJamesable the kitty hawk is 96,000 tons...

[gibbsrg]

It's a 30mm shell firing a 21mm sabot. The danger with DU is not radiation. However, I do know that during the 1st Iraqi war some American soldiers returned home sick after examining the wreakages of some Iraqi tanks destroyed with DU rounds. It is believed that hey may have inhaled some dust from it, or something to that affect. Not sure of all the details. Buy there seems to be an environmental hazard from DU, even if not direct radiation.

[justforever96]

@gibbsrg- Yeah, DU isn't really nice stuff, even if it's not radioactive. I'm curious now though...is the Goalkeeper the only gun that fires these 21mm sabot rounds, or does the A-10 use them too? Or could it be JUST the A-10 that uses them...I don't see why they'd want a sabot/penetrator for anti-missile duty, unless that's the only 30mm ammo they make now. Personally, I'd use full-caliber HE shells with proximity fuses to deal with missiles. But oh well, I'm not in charge any more (I woke up)

[gibbsrg]

@justforever96 I don't know what the Dutch use in GK. I described what I know the A-10 uses. A case can easily be made for sabot ammo.  The sub-caliber projectiles have a higher velocity than full caliber projectiles. That makes computing firing solutions easier and quicker. Remember, GK and like weapons are last ditch, so time is critical. This is especially true if the target is maneuvering and solutions constantly being recomputed.

[justforever96]

@steviezxr That was supposed to be a joke..."I'm not in charge any more...I woke up", i.e. I was dreaming. In real life I ain't in charge of shit. Except my dog (and even she doesn't always listen).

If I WAS in charge, I wouldn't use this "SmartRsSoul" guy as an adviser...he seem to be a beer or two short of a six-pack.

[gibbsrg]

@justforever96 If you still have 4/5 missiles in the air when the are close enough to engage with GK, you are probably history. It won't matter if they are supersonic or not. The clock will simply run out on you.

[33vortex]

You don't need a GAU-8 or any type of rapid firing cannon to take down inbound missiles. A 40 mm cannon firing either timed or proximity fuzed ammo is equally effective, and cheaper I'd argue. So what did the americand dump GAU-8s on you for, to sell you "depleted" uranium for ammo as well?

[justforever96]

Modern 30mm vs old 40mm=40 does about 1/2 more damage per hit. The whole point of GAU guns is to put a LOT of shells on target. A plane is not a rugged target, so any shell strike will do damage; a 40mm will do 1.5X the damage, but that doesn't matter if it is a non-vital spot or a miss. Yes, it IS easy to miss a plane. Better to shoot 20 small shells and have 4 hit, than 5 big ones with 1 hit. If you can hit 4 spots, one WILL be vital. And putting a "cone of fire" will hit a missile better.

[justforever96]

CONTINUED;

Compare a shotgun and a rifle. Both shotguns and Goalkeeper are for "point-defense" combat. A rifle bullet (40mm) is very powerful, but if it only hits a non-vital spot, it won't stop a man five feet from you. It'll just do A LOT of damage to nothing. Yes the man (or plane) will crash, but not until it stabs you. A buckshot shell holds 9 shot. None are as powerful as a rifle bullet (and a 30mm is almost = 40mm), but if you fire them all at once, AT LEAST one will hit a vital spot.

[Morbidrod]

Don't comment if you don't know what you are talking about. It makes you look very stupid. I suggest you do some research before you make useless comments like this. I could explain why the chose this weapon but prob wouldn't be of any use. Darwin FAIL !!

[kamanchi7]

Check wikipedia and look up Thales Goalkeeper. General Dynamics supplied the Gau-8 Avenger system used in the the A-10. Goalkeeper has USA dna in it.

[ecpirate62]

did it take only 2 round to destroy that?

[badjokebr]

US sucks! FUCK USA!

NL rox! Woooooohooo

[elitecomsubin]

Goalkeeper is a Dutch close-in weapon system

[mvolesky1]

It's 30mm. In fact, the Goalkeeper uses the GAU-8 Avenger 7bbl cannon, which is used on the A-10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog). The Dutch navy licensed it for use in the Goalkeeper CIWS. The British use the Goalkeeper on a handful of ships as well, but unlike the US Phalanx CIWS, it can't be easily retrofitted to existing ships because it requires a lot of below deck space. Phalanx, while not as powerful, is self contained and can be bolted to any available deck space, making it a more popular.

[Firefox2208]

Tard, the goalkeeper is a dutch weapon Nothing american about it

[rasputin122]

Except the gun

[captaincavemaaaannn]

Royal Navy have used it for donkeys. The A10's been about for longer too. Don't think it's a dutch design some how.

[Firefox2208]

The A10 is a 30 mm gun this is 35.

Thales is a company thats located in Hengelo (Ov) and its been bought by Norma half a year ago. They do more stuf for the millitary.

[tdfisxs]

Know your facts. The Goalkeeper uses the GAU-8/A Avenger 30 mm Gatling gun, as used by the A-10 Thunderbolt II and uses a 30mm round that has a discarding nylon sleeve, or sabot, with a 21mm sub-calibre tungsten penetrator

[Firefox2208]

NO its a 35mm gun. A A10 gun is a 30mm gun. Grow up. it isn't a match

[tdfisxs]

Really? Firedope2208 knows better then Thales own website?

"GOALKEEPER is the most effective fully autonomous and integrated

Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) available today. Its superior search

radar leaves no threat undetected. Its highly accurate I- and K-band

tracking radar gives pinpoint precision. Its high-performance 30 mm

Gatling gun with its special ammunition and firing rate of 4200 rpm,

leaves no room for doubt about the outcome of any engagement. "

[gibbsrg]

@tdfisxs That sound like a manufacturers statement....lol The problem with these types of weapons is there limited range..which limits engagement time. Against a single target is one thing. But what about multiple targets? The critical factor is time, which may just run out. But, it is a last ditch weapon. Can't ask for too much at that point.

[gibbsrg]

@gibbsrg Forgive my bad English..lol  That "sounds like" and "their limited range" is correct.

[gogogomoveit]

Goalkeeper uses a Sea Vulcan 30mm gun, which is essentially the GAU-8 found on A-10. Check your facts.

[eriknl1988]

goalkeeper is 30mm

[alex512ify]

no its a 30 mm gau 8 avenger gun.

[Sabrehockeylw29]

isnt that the same gun onboard the A-10

[jjeellmmeerr]

ehm, the A10 is an aircraft, not a gun! and goalkeeper has 7 30 mm barrels. i have been working for almost 6 years with the gun. the firing mechanism isn't dutch only the radar's and computers are.

[strikey88]

LOL ,mr.joker, norma didnt buy thales ,they bought the machinery,

[Firefox2208]

Uh, how would you know better, unless you work there you might now beter. but you don't, sow STFU

[strikey88]

lol,I work there.. , Norma is going to expand their facilities just 500 meters away from thales,building a new complex, The machinery part of Thales is about 300 people of the 1800 that work there

[stalkingalizee]

Thales Nederlands is a subsidiary of Thales Group, it is owned by the French state.

[Piekartz]

yes it uses alot more space on a vessel, but its not just more powerfull, it uses less rounds for a target en can track alot more targets.

thats quite an advantage

[tdfisxs]

In addition, it must be tied into the ships fire control system. With the Phalanx it is an easy "bolt on" to retro fit onto other ships because it is almost completly self contained.

[Piekartz]

yes well its bigger and sofistecated. and much more effective than a Phalanx.

I always drive by the Thales company when I go to my girlfriend. they have huge ass radars on the roofs of there buildings. very cool to look at.

[conefucius]

No worries Kimmer but turns out I was wrong.

There was a prototype 37mm 6-barrelled rotary cannon known as the T249; it fired a new 37x219SR cartridge but the project was cancelled. A remaining prototype was later rechambered for the 35x228 KDA round. If you want to read more about it look up T250 Vigilante, tried posting a link to the article where I found the info earlier but my post never showed up here. :(

[kimmer6]

Conefucius, thanks for the info. I have several inert 35x228 rounds. Apparently the KDA and KDG require belted ammo. HUGE links. I will have to Google these and see what's up. Take care...

[davebeech]

If I'm on a ship in harms way, I want one of those topside, not a Phalanx.

[kimmer6]

OK Dutch Naval Officers, is this 30mm or 35mm? Looks like 30mm rounds in the ammo drum loader. What is the King Kong weapon you fire that is 35mm? Is it also called a Goalkeeper? My 35mm dummy round had huge steel links...belted!

[doyoublush]

the goalkeeper is a 30mm multi barrel gun, that fires at about 4000 round a minute.

[conefucius]

I haven't heard of a 35mm gatling, I think 30mm is the largest of these type of weapons.

The 35x228mm round is fired by the Oerlikon KDA anti-aircraft cannon; there are other auto-cannons chambered for this round such as the Bushmaster III and the 35mm/1000 KDG Millenium naval gun system.

[chernobilrasputin]

VERY NICE