What does this proof? Nothing. So what if we wouldn't exists? I mean whats so special about that? So just because we exists, there must be a god? Seriously... ... ... ...
Typical crap argument from believers. It must be god because we have no evidence or proof, but things seem to be magically perfect for life. In an infinite multiverse, given infinite time, it was bound to happen. Stop acting like you are a special child of a special parent somewhere special and take some damn responsibility for a change whiners.
hey i played basketball the other day and i made the ball fit exactly on the case at the last second, definitely god designed big bang so perfectly, so i could exist and be able to make it happen, awesome, thank god!
This is absolutley rediculous and proves nothing. Chance, that is all life is. A lucky roll in the cosmic dice. The more videos, books, and essays I read about "why god exists" makes me have less and less faith in humanity as a whole. Question the word you live in. Don't accept these bullshit answers as the way that it has to be. I find it appalling that people can believe in this garbage and religion in general. Is that warm fuzzy feeling of false hope really worth it?
"Time is nothing"... "Chance is nothing"... "you still get NOTHING"
By that rational god is nowhere, he doesn't have an address or zip code either. Therefore by your reasoning god must not exist.
"Order proves that there is an orderer" - There is as much proof that Zeus is in charge of what happens as there is of the christian god being the orderer.
The fine tuning argument, how cute. It assumes that the universe is designed for life. It is not. If you were to be placed in a random point on the surface of our planet, you'd most likely die in 80-90% cases (drowning, cold, heat, nature). If you were to be placed in a random point in our planet, you would die instantly in 99.9999999% cases. And that's just our planet. Most space is not compatible with life as we know it.
@olegkikin Your argument reinforces the Christian viewpoint. We all acknowledge that incompatible and inhospitable environments abound; but thus far, only one tiny speck in the universe has been found to support life. Life requires a highly improbable concentration of variables - a constant flow of energy; stable gravitation within certain limits; a planet free from meteor bombardment; the right sized star with a certain radiation profile etc. This is necessary for any kind of evolution.
You are making a classic mistake- you assume that there was either a creator, or it happened by chance. This is a fundamentally wrong way to proceed with Science- you see no intermediate, and if you continue to shoehorn everything into these two categories, then you will live for the rest of your lives, stuck with God, defending him till the end. Hint- he won't thank you for it, he'll have your father kill you (Genesis 22: 1-19), or have some Israelites rape you (Numbers 31:7-18).
I find it funny that atheists are ALWAYS making comments on Christian (God, Jesus) type videos. My questions is why the need? If Christians are wrong, let them be. I think atheists repeatedly keep drilling their beliefs on places like this because they are trying to convince themselves. Maybe they don't believe in a biblical God but they know something is more to this than matter alone or they wouldn't keep trying to convince themselves by slamming videos like this. Security = silence.
@HowFarAreWeNow As soon as a christians take their stupid "In God We Trust" BACK OFF of the national currency, we will seriously consider your request.
And thanks for proving how insecure christians are.
@HowFarAreWeNow True...Atheists (not all but alot recently) seem to be bashing christians for "shoving religion in their face" while trying to shove their beliefs in everyones face.
@Mulrich14 No of course not. He is a genius, and so was Isaac Newton, Einstien, Pascal.IQ has nothing to do with what you believe. But I do find that people with lower IQ's tend to believe in Evolution..hmmmmwonder why?: Oh yeah indoctrination.
@doobersmanster Eh... 93% of all the members of the national acadamy of sciences support the evolution theory and deny intelligent design/ the story of creation.
I saw the first debate between these two. I thought Turek one that one, but Hutchens did do a good job revealing some of Turek's inconsistencies. I have not seen this one. But I know Turek has not changed his view. He is still an evidentialist which means Hitchens could have exposed those inconsistencies again.
Well here's an easy example: take a can of Legos. Would they assemble by themselves after an infinite amount of time? No. Will the Legos assemble if I shake them or blow them up? No. Same idea, you need a creator to match the complexity of the universe like Legos to a mind at hand. It's not difficult to understand and accept.
@HurdleBac0n "It's not difficult to understand and accept."
Indeed. Now you just have to demonstrate that the analogy between lego bricks and atoms holds. Good luck with that in a world where the Miller-Urey experiment managed to self assemble a range of amino acids in essentially no time at all..
ok well there are so many planets one has life on it though millions of years one of coutless plantes have life thats no baseis on proof of god. bill clinton was the one spem that made it though millions of others and got to the egg first that doesnt prove that god is real.. noobs
"Order proves that there is an orderor" - I disagree, but let's say that we grant that -- there is still a long ways to go to show that the orderor loves us, answers prayers, or cares about human affairs.
Also, if the universe is ordered, then describe a DISorded universe? What would it look like? How would it function?
The intelligent design crowd has been pressed into grasping at straws. Its another desperate and failed attempt by theists to apply science & reason to their faith.
Yeah, so the big bang was remarkable. But hey, we're here, aren't we? Seems to me like everything worked out. That still doesn't prove there's a god.
When you try to argue against science with religion, you are only throwing a bucket of water on an inferno. You have a few statements to prove that there is a god, yes? What about everything else? Using the answer "God did it" is just proving that you are a sheep who does not like to think for yourself.
your basing all that your saying on nothing. God is like santa you figure out and start asking questions one day but most americans don't ask questions thats why the US is the laughing stock of the world.
God is only a character in a story you tell yourself in your mind. Humans like telling stories, we can easily elaborate them, this is why religious texts around the world are rich and have depth. We also like to believe that there can be a plan or procedure to things that someone has thought out beforehand that can just tell us the best way to live. However, we have no need for a God figure any longer. We need to realize that it is through our creative cooperation that we recreate the world.
Christians don't have to try to convince unbelievers that God exists. Belief in God is not possible unless God allows you to believe. So there will always be people who don't believe. Even people that we witness to. Don't you know that faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit? So we share the gospel, but we are not responsible for changing anyone. God is the one who regenerates the heart. There's no need for this type of explanation.
@MinnieTyko I've actually watched the whole debate. Both men (Turek and Hitchens) did ok. The debate, itself, was kind of mediocre. Then, again, I think the whole debate thing can get pretty nerdy. Turek does give the explanation as you said it, but I think he was trying to grapple with something in this clip.
Todd Friel's favorite word is presupposition. Like the whole bible isn't based on that single word. Todd reminds me of a failed 80's stand up comic that lost his mind and threw away his ability to think critically.
Oh wait, that's really what did happen. Look it up.
... and the big bang proves the God of Abraham? Nothing in this argument provides evidence for Yahweh. The fact that our universe supports life with such exact components is not evidence for anything. How about we evolved in our environment not our environment was created for us. How about the possibility of a multi verse and ours had the right combination of things to support life?
@blucas God flooded the earth because what he made turned on him like we are today. He made us perfect, but we failed to stay that way. God did however save you from hell, once again are you going to turn on him or accept? Thank you God bless
@dakotbeastj, Why would you respect a god that murdered all land life by drowning including pregnant women, babies, children and the purest of all of us because of a handful of wicked people.
God could have easily punished the wicked with a thought.
Do you really believe that man descended from the incest of Adam & Eve's children and later the incest of Noah's children giving White, Black, Brown & Asian people 5,000 years ago.
Evolution doesn't work that fast. That takes faith.
@MrHoolits If you read the Bible it states that God populated the earth again after the second fall witch was the flood. In this time he also said men would not live past the age of 120 years and since no man or women has. Coincidence?
@dakotbeastj First the bible was not written by a god. They are stories past down by the ancients. A god did not get the virgin bride of Joseph of Nazareth pregnant.
Your beliefs are based on First Council of Nicaea ordered by Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 AD that they compile the stories into 1 book & later edited and heavily rewritten by the Roman Catholics in 397 AD at the Council of Carthage.
You have no idea what was excluded or destroyed when these men compiled your bible.
@MrHoolits let me ask you when you read a history book, do you believe it? Why was you there? no it takes faith yes I believe that God got a virgin pregnant, and that he made you and me out of dust. I believe that God shows him self to us everyday, and we have to look. I believe that God gives us each and every breath that we take. I believe that Christmas is based on the birth of Christ born from an un worthy virgin. Yes I believe. I BELIEVE. I BELIEVE I BELIEVE
@dakotbeastj,The difference in History is Alexander the Great, Caesar, Plato or Socrates were not gods.
Your beliefs are based on what a few ancient men wrote like Genesis Chapter 1 where god created a flat Earth with a dome & water above and below the dome.
We know this did not happen. God makes Earth first then "let there be light" making the Sun second.
Yes I understand you believe all of this but must do based on Faith as if it was fact there would be no Atheists & 1 religion.
'If you read the Bible it states that God populated the earth again after the second fall witch was the flood. In this time he also said men would not live past the age of 120 years and since no man or women has. Coincidence?'
The point is we are here. There is an estimated 500 billion galaxies. Giving this to an invisible creator is done so out of ignorance. We simply do not know and the Big Bang is based on an expanding Universe. 100 years from now that theory many chance as science is self correcting.
There may be supernatural powers in an infinite Universe. If there is, man has no idea what those powers are or what they think. Certainly ancient, superstitious men 1000s of years ago did not know so they made it up.
@MrHoolits God isn't + and - he isn't something you can base on science, however if you were to base it on science you would find that our bodies have 1000 of tiny parts, and as you were saying there are 500 billion galaxies. So my question to you is how if everything is soo precise that there isn't a living God? How did all this come to be? The all powerful God made it. That's how. Or it just happened? Do you believe stuff in a history book? The Bible is the most important history book ever.
@dakotbeastj, Simple. I don't know & will not pretend to know or lie to myself and say I know or use opinions as facts.
I'm Agnostic, reject all man made religions but am honest to myself and say there might be powers like gods in an infinite and ageless Universe.
The Universe as far as man in concerned is not precise nor is Earth with floods, tsunamis, droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes, birth defects, blindness, deafness, born with missing limbs, retardation...
@MrHoolits Well, there does seem to be some order amongst the chaos, don't you think? The cycles of the seasons, tides, movement of the planets and so on, are all happening in a universe of crashing galaxies, exploding stars, and so on. Seems like something went awry East of Eden. Just a thought.
@SpeakaDaEnglish, In a way there is order amongst chaos if you look at life on Earth in the last 10,000 years of so which is nothing when compared to the Milky Way Galaxy at 13.7 billion years.
Much of it short term until Earth's gravity pulls in another giant meteorite that smashes into the Earth killing all life or most of it.
We have meteorite showers all the time with most of it burning up, landing in the ocean but when we get with the big ones that smashed into Jupiter....
@MrHoolits That Jupiter strike was pretty scary. I wonder why we don't get sucked in by the Sun? It's sucks us close, and then it hurls us away again. That's wild!
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
@ideologger how would you explain rainbows? other then because God told us as a promise that he would never again flood the earth. There's more proof of God then there is saying he isn't real. (which he is) Thank you and God bless you
@dakotbeastj Why did god need to flood the earth to destroy everything he created if he is perfect. He wouldnt have made imperfections in the first place. God is either a real life dumbshit, or he doesnt exist. :/
@dakotbeastj How do I explain rainbows? With all due respect and sympathy, are you pulling my leg? Google "where do rainbows come from" and learn why they appear. It's actually very, very simple and edifying to learn. My 4 y/o son could explain it and I firmly believe you could understand it too. I don't think I've ever met a Christian or Jew that didn't understand that as symbolism or an etiological myth.
@ideologger The fact remains that it states in the Bible something that we explain as water evaporates, and the sun comes out and it's there. When actually it's there because the Lord wanted it there. And yes I've seen laminin and the reason I say that is because the Lord was nailed on a cross that is in the same shape as Laminin. God shows himself to those who care enough to look. The way our bodies work is proof he lives. God is active everyday you live.God bless you. Merry Christmas
@dakotbeastj the Lord? what? are we back in feudal ages? said lord was nailed in a cross? so what? i say the flying spagety monster one time mated with a giant meatball and their sons were the earth and the sun. can you prove it wrong? can you prove you are right? no you cant do either of those
god doesnt show itself because it doesnt exist, its a human concept, i care about the truth i looked everywhere and what i saw was... NO FUCKING GODS EXIST. may you get hit by an airplane, happy pagan day
@ComAntNeLib you can believe what you wish to believe but why don't you go ahead and respect those who disagree. Thank you and God bless you. I'll pray for you
@ideologger and what about the fossols that were found just feet below the surface of the earth? the only thing that could produce enough weight to make fossols that close to the surface would be lots of water. Where did that water come from? I think it was a flood that happened when God flooded the earth.
@dakotbeastj If you really believe this stuff, I take pity on you. There's no evidence of fossils "found just feet below the surface of the earth." If there were, it wouldn't much matter- there are accounts of similar creation and deluge myths that predate Judaism. There's actually no evidence of a global flood, sadly enough- I guess you won't have a good reason to convert to Baal worship.
@ideologger do you know what Laminin does? it holds your body together. In Colossians 1:16-18
English Standard Version (ESV)
16For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. God holds all things together it's in the shape or form of a cross. that's how it's proof
@dakotbeastj Where does it say anything like "God holds all things together it's in the shape or form of a cross." Not in my Colossians (KJV, ESV, NASB, NEB, JB). And have you actually seen laminin? Not a schematic diagram, but picture of what it actually looks like. It's a lumpy 'x.' Must be proof that the Catholics are right, huh? Similar "proofs" can be found for many other religions. Muslim apologists make a dozen similar claims, and they're all just as as desperately sad.
@RoverT1000 I fear some people will never understand that. Every time a coin flip lands in heads, some people will exclaim "LOOK! The Hand of God!" That coin could have landed in one of any billion of logically and physically possible configurations- but it landed heads up! Hallelujah!
@homeboy1615 Todd said as much at the beginning of this clip. He said there is no proof of God, but that God and Christian theology should be a PRESUPPOSITION. I presuppose the moon is made of smegma. Ergo, the moon is made of cheese. I OWNED YOU WITH SCIENCE AND LOGIC! That's how it works for him, William Lane Craig, etc.
@dakotbeastj How is it proof? It's a protein. It's a pretty cool protein, though! Even the nutjobs at Answers in Genesis think only a simpleton would take the shape of a protein as proof of God or of Christ's divinity. Next thing you know, you'll tell me Calicivirus is proof that Judaism is right and Jesus is wrong; Potassium Channel protein proves at least one of the following: Macs are better than PCs, Nazis were right, or Hitler is God. Do you really believe all of that?
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to Him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
atheists scream 'give us the evidence'. God says 'open your eyes and look around' The proof evident all around us in the creation is sufficient for God to consider men 'without excuse'. (Romans 1:20) That means you are under the full weight of the law and found guilty as charged unless you escape to the saving mercy of Jesus Christ.
@servant714 I think that's true. If you look around, it does make you wonder if we were "seeded" here or something. (That's one of those cool sounding words that scientists like).
@SpeakaDaEnglish :-) Your right, even Dawkins conceded that life may have originated from an alien species. Do you get the feeling that extreme atheists will accept "anything but God!"
@servant714 The difference is, there is evidence for the possibility of panspermia. There is not evidence that God dun it. As a Christian, I'd LOVE to see evidence for the "God dun it" theory- it would only strengthen my faith. Telling lies to God's flock and lies to the unbelievers is a denial of Christ and shows the hatred people like Todd have for God. I hope that one day, people like Todd and you can put down the Devil's lies and come to Christ. God Bless!
@SamWiseGingy The evidence is history, the bible, Jesus and his own statements, prophecy in the bible, past miracles with eye witnesses...did i mention 6000 years of history that was started by the one true God, even science is evidence. The world knows, all the kings and queens knew, and know...Even the haters know...even you know because it is written on your heart. YET you and your wealth of experience and long life have been taught to fight against your creator. You should ask yourself why!
RELIGIOUS CRIPS CHANGE THE RULES GOD USED TO BE IN THE CLOUDS,
WE INVENTED THE AIR PLANE AND GOD WENT TO THE HEAVENS , WE INVENTED THE ROCKET AND WENT TO THE SPACE , WE WENT TO THE MOON AND NOW GOD MOVE TO THE END OF THE UNIVERSE!!
@elpedorro2 So you are basically claiming that you are..part..god? ok......whatever. Sorry, but the concepts you provide mean nothing. The men used to write the bible never thought that God was on top of a cloud or on the moon. God is seperate from His creation.
@ddrninjette. I agree with you but I have no doubt it does not have those qualities. Also it ran on instinct and in the end was very tasty. Good night all.
Of course he didnt show the response by hitchens, and im pretty sure those figures are not exacty 100%...this world DOES NOT work perfectly, there are things that are horribly "designed"!!!!
@YouAreNotAMonkey My favorite proof that God esists is the first line in the bible.
IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth.
Jesus died so the scoffers can be saved too. And they can/will have a great reward, but for some reason they fight against what they know in their hearts to be true. They choose to fight for Satan? Jesus came for their sins too if they will only repent and trust and follow. Sin is not worth choosing hell. Jesus showed pure love to die for you, for you too!
Want to know the worst part about this entire argument of order/constants...
The creation is under a curse.
Imagine it without the curse!
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God
Same basic building blocks don't always mean realationship. You would argee that most things on earth are made from the same simple elements (carbon, oxygen etc) but we see huge diversity in life and non life in the world. Secondly human brains are not as simmilar to animal brains as you make it out to be, human brains have special characteristics to them such as, humor, recognition of time, beuty, death, morality, love etc. This will be my last post, I know nothing I say will change your mind.
"You would argee that most things on earth are made from the same simple elements (carbon, oxygen etc) but we see huge diversity in life and non life in the world."
Yea, even the way the same building blocks operate differently within the same organism is mysterious. The alimentary canal contains gray matter for example, much like what is found in the human brain, but that doesn't mean we reason with our intestines. lol
Can you back that claim up with evidince? You just made an accusation against me saying that I don't understand where the brain came from. Okay then, what about the brain shows that evolution is real?
Our brain cells, brain molecules, neurotransmitters and synapses are almost identical in all animals – so the brains of insects, fish, reptiles, birds and mammals are all made from the same 'building blocks'. If we are really supposed to be seporate from the animals, why make the brain from the same materials?
@jwissick - Why not make the brain from the same materials? Why should the human brain be entirely alien from the rest of Creation? The fact that human brains are like animal brains proves that there is a Creator who had a design in mind. Besides, it's not our physiology that makes us separate from the animals, James. It's our spirit. You claim to be a former Christian, so that's something you should know. I'm not surprised that you don't.
@jwissick You actually make a good point here j. This is one of the reasons I believe in my Creator. The fact that both man and animals posses similar attributes such as you mentioned above it shows that we have the same designer. You and I look at it from opposite directions. I would have said the animals act like us as opposed to us acting like the animals but in the end the design is similar in many ways. My authority is Gods written Word as opposed to mans own secular conclusions.
@RVGuy1959 Reading in on your exchange about animals and human with jwissick made me refer to Genesis to see that animals were indeed created before humans. So maybe GOD drew inspiration from his previous creation (the animals) to then craft humanity...or it could be as you said; From all the time that animals have spent with humans, they have simply adopted our manners. Could go either way.
@jwissick - Um, nope. What I said about what you believe about the origins of life is accurate. You call it "primordial soup" to make it sound like it's scientific when it's not.
We are separate from the animals not in creation - you ignoramus. We're separate from the animals in ability and purpose. The Bible says that God breathed into humanity a 'Spirit,' that we were created in his image, so, unlike the animals, we can understand Truth, the Abstract, Morality, and we can reason among other things animals cannot.
@RVGuy1959 Yeah, gorillas can speak sign-language, for example. In fact, a friend of mine, Koko the gorilla, was taught sign language. (We met because Koko got sued, and my mom represented her). She owned a cat. She loved that cat to death. But it got hit by a car. When she was told about her poor cat, she mourned for weeks.
As for dolphins, they can do math among other things. They are very smart.
@ddrninjette That is incredible, I just watched a video where a zoo has a parrot that can talk. I mean have you ever seen a talking parrot. In fact they use this parrot to raise funds. I even seen this parrot on TV so it must true.
@RVGuy1959 Actually, one of the first questions raised by sign talking primates was whether or not they were actually communicating or parroting movements. However, when the primates began creating new sign languages based off the old ones, that idea was put to rest.
@RVGuy1959 And, also like in the example, when told Koko's cat died, Koko understood the implications and became sad. There's no way something just mimicking sounds or movements could do that.
@ddrninjette but really......I really want to know how science or was it animal physcology got into the head of the beast to determine this was the actual emotion being felt. Come on, this is one of those arguments that other smart guys on your side would probably put their hand over their mouths and mumble softly while looking your way "don't go there". This trail you are on will end in a trainwreck.
We are not that different from the other apes. We have all the same parts. They react the same ways when their friends die or get hurt. These are observable, predictable, measurable events!
@ddrninjette I sometimes think that the secular science community of faithfull followers and preachers are going to have a nervouse breakdown just trying to keep up with the ever changing theories to justify their faith. Yikes, take a breath or you will get a migraine.
@ddrninjette just one more rant before I hit the rack. This subject of beasts ability to reason and have emotions to the degree you SEEM to be implicating makes me wonder if the buck that I just shot with my .270 round is thinking as he runs away (all be it not far) rats, i've just been shot now I'm going to die. I don't want to die. Could we observe this event enough times to make a determination?
@RVGuy1959 I doubt that buck you shot understood the concept of death and permanence, though, I hope you did everything you could to minimize its suffering.
@ddrninjette I agree animals are smart. It is not just Koko that understands language and can communicate. Animals can understand gestures, understand generated emotion and threats, they communicate many ways, and use objects to assist them in their pursuits. So just because an ape stuck a stick in an ant-hole to get some bugs does not mean that, wow, humans are apes too. That is a jump in logic. Animals are proof of a creator too. God is amazing indeed. Koko rocks! BUT Penny is lost without God
@YouAreNotAMonkey Don't be silly. Humans are apes because humans are primates with short or no tails. Humans are part of the hominidae family which includes all great apes. Saying that humans are apes is purely taxonomic and has nothing to do with giant leaps of logic.
@YouAreNotAMonkey Animals can communicate, but they don't speak. That's another major attribute that distinguishes humans from all other living creatures, apes included. (Unless of course you count Baalam's donkey). :D
@SpeakaDaEnglish Yes, humans are very unique in our ability to communicate orally, which is partially what makes the whole "talking snake" in Genesis thing so unbelievable to most people. :)
@ddrninjette Yes, there's all sorts of supernatural phenomena like the snake, the donkey, the burning bush, speaking to rocks, etc... of course that's a whole other ball of Biblical wax. Sometimes I wonder if animals really do have something to say, but just can't say it (at least not without a miracle). They are pretty smart.
@jwissick Morals is a tough one to be applying to animals. Hmm, I think you would have a hard time convincing anyone that animals have morals. Sure I agree that within their communities there is a standard of behavior that needs to be conformed to but morals. Tough one to prove.
What does this proof? Nothing. So what if we wouldn't exists? I mean whats so special about that? So just because we exists, there must be a god? Seriously... ... ... ...
Heny313 1 day ago
BOW BEFORE ME....I NEED THE ATTENTION
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
NONE CHRISTIAN COUNTRY...DOOMED
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
HELP YOU FIND TV REMOTE...IGNORE STARVING CHILDREN
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
Comment removed
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
COULD PUT A END TO THE DEBATE....DOESN'T
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
Comment removed
TrollMeNoTroll 5 days ago
a christian with a math book is like a drunk with a car.
He might be able to start and drive it, but the results won't be pretty.
l337pwnage 1 week ago
Typical crap argument from believers. It must be god because we have no evidence or proof, but things seem to be magically perfect for life. In an infinite multiverse, given infinite time, it was bound to happen. Stop acting like you are a special child of a special parent somewhere special and take some damn responsibility for a change whiners.
frosted1030 1 week ago
hey i played basketball the other day and i made the ball fit exactly on the case at the last second, definitely god designed big bang so perfectly, so i could exist and be able to make it happen, awesome, thank god!
TheMstdnt 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is absolutley rediculous and proves nothing. Chance, that is all life is. A lucky roll in the cosmic dice. The more videos, books, and essays I read about "why god exists" makes me have less and less faith in humanity as a whole. Question the word you live in. Don't accept these bullshit answers as the way that it has to be. I find it appalling that people can believe in this garbage and religion in general. Is that warm fuzzy feeling of false hope really worth it?
777eafowler 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
777eafowler 3 weeks ago
"Time is nothing"... "Chance is nothing"... "you still get NOTHING"
By that rational god is nowhere, he doesn't have an address or zip code either. Therefore by your reasoning god must not exist.
"Order proves that there is an orderer" - There is as much proof that Zeus is in charge of what happens as there is of the christian god being the orderer.
djjamesbest 3 weeks ago
The fine tuning argument, how cute. It assumes that the universe is designed for life. It is not. If you were to be placed in a random point on the surface of our planet, you'd most likely die in 80-90% cases (drowning, cold, heat, nature). If you were to be placed in a random point in our planet, you would die instantly in 99.9999999% cases. And that's just our planet. Most space is not compatible with life as we know it.
olegkikin 1 month ago
@olegkikin Your argument reinforces the Christian viewpoint. We all acknowledge that incompatible and inhospitable environments abound; but thus far, only one tiny speck in the universe has been found to support life. Life requires a highly improbable concentration of variables - a constant flow of energy; stable gravitation within certain limits; a planet free from meteor bombardment; the right sized star with a certain radiation profile etc. This is necessary for any kind of evolution.
jlandles 3 weeks ago
You are making a classic mistake- you assume that there was either a creator, or it happened by chance. This is a fundamentally wrong way to proceed with Science- you see no intermediate, and if you continue to shoehorn everything into these two categories, then you will live for the rest of your lives, stuck with God, defending him till the end. Hint- he won't thank you for it, he'll have your father kill you (Genesis 22: 1-19), or have some Israelites rape you (Numbers 31:7-18).
DidItForebode 1 month ago
I find it funny that atheists are ALWAYS making comments on Christian (God, Jesus) type videos. My questions is why the need? If Christians are wrong, let them be. I think atheists repeatedly keep drilling their beliefs on places like this because they are trying to convince themselves. Maybe they don't believe in a biblical God but they know something is more to this than matter alone or they wouldn't keep trying to convince themselves by slamming videos like this. Security = silence.
HowFarAreWeNow 1 month ago 2
@HowFarAreWeNow i can say the same thing about christians.
Bloodlust392 1 month ago
@HowFarAreWeNow "Let them be". Yes, because religion will happily let science and atheism be, right?
britishguitar 1 month ago
@HowFarAreWeNow As soon as a christians take their stupid "In God We Trust" BACK OFF of the national currency, we will seriously consider your request.
And thanks for proving how insecure christians are.
l337pwnage 1 week ago
@HowFarAreWeNow True...Atheists (not all but alot recently) seem to be bashing christians for "shoving religion in their face" while trying to shove their beliefs in everyones face.
WhatUGawkinAt 1 day ago
lol its the other way around
TheShellshock1992 21 hours ago
The Big Bang did not even happen...it is a stupid theory.
doobersmanster 1 month ago
@doobersmanster And Stephen Hawking has a low IQ
Mulrich14 1 month ago
@Mulrich14 No of course not. He is a genius, and so was Isaac Newton, Einstien, Pascal.IQ has nothing to do with what you believe. But I do find that people with lower IQ's tend to believe in Evolution..hmmmmwonder why?: Oh yeah indoctrination.
doobersmanster 1 month ago
@doobersmanster Eh... 93% of all the members of the national acadamy of sciences support the evolution theory and deny intelligent design/ the story of creation.
Mulrich14 1 month ago
Hitchens ruined this guy's logic and people are still bumming him on the internet. Sad times.
theafi99000 1 month ago
I saw the first debate between these two. I thought Turek one that one, but Hutchens did do a good job revealing some of Turek's inconsistencies. I have not seen this one. But I know Turek has not changed his view. He is still an evidentialist which means Hitchens could have exposed those inconsistencies again.
theocratickingdom30 1 month ago
Well here's an easy example: take a can of Legos. Would they assemble by themselves after an infinite amount of time? No. Will the Legos assemble if I shake them or blow them up? No. Same idea, you need a creator to match the complexity of the universe like Legos to a mind at hand. It's not difficult to understand and accept.
HurdleBac0n 1 month ago
@HurdleBac0n "It's not difficult to understand and accept."
Indeed. Now you just have to demonstrate that the analogy between lego bricks and atoms holds. Good luck with that in a world where the Miller-Urey experiment managed to self assemble a range of amino acids in essentially no time at all..
Gnomefro 1 month ago
the universe didn't "explode into being out of nothing..." I love how this guy doesn't know what he's talking about...
kajakpaddler92 1 month ago
ok well there are so many planets one has life on it though millions of years one of coutless plantes have life thats no baseis on proof of god. bill clinton was the one spem that made it though millions of others and got to the egg first that doesnt prove that god is real.. noobs
TheCasualAngler 1 month ago
"Order proves that there is an orderor" - I disagree, but let's say that we grant that -- there is still a long ways to go to show that the orderor loves us, answers prayers, or cares about human affairs.
Also, if the universe is ordered, then describe a DISorded universe? What would it look like? How would it function?
The intelligent design crowd has been pressed into grasping at straws. Its another desperate and failed attempt by theists to apply science & reason to their faith.
MrKeenoRossi 1 month ago
Comment removed
MrKeenoRossi 1 month ago
Yeah, so the big bang was remarkable. But hey, we're here, aren't we? Seems to me like everything worked out. That still doesn't prove there's a god.
When you try to argue against science with religion, you are only throwing a bucket of water on an inferno. You have a few statements to prove that there is a god, yes? What about everything else? Using the answer "God did it" is just proving that you are a sheep who does not like to think for yourself.
mrEYUH 1 month ago
todd friel is the ultimate proof that there is no god.
bassbasstwotwo 1 month ago in playlist Weitere Videos von WretchedNetwork
your basing all that your saying on nothing. God is like santa you figure out and start asking questions one day but most americans don't ask questions thats why the US is the laughing stock of the world.
phoenixxxcp 2 months ago
God is only a character in a story you tell yourself in your mind. Humans like telling stories, we can easily elaborate them, this is why religious texts around the world are rich and have depth. We also like to believe that there can be a plan or procedure to things that someone has thought out beforehand that can just tell us the best way to live. However, we have no need for a God figure any longer. We need to realize that it is through our creative cooperation that we recreate the world.
libertyandjustice 2 months ago
Christians don't have to try to convince unbelievers that God exists. Belief in God is not possible unless God allows you to believe. So there will always be people who don't believe. Even people that we witness to. Don't you know that faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit? So we share the gospel, but we are not responsible for changing anyone. God is the one who regenerates the heart. There's no need for this type of explanation.
MinnieTyko 2 months ago in playlist More videos from WretchedNetwork
@MinnieTyko I've actually watched the whole debate. Both men (Turek and Hitchens) did ok. The debate, itself, was kind of mediocre. Then, again, I think the whole debate thing can get pretty nerdy. Turek does give the explanation as you said it, but I think he was trying to grapple with something in this clip.
exiled30 2 months ago
Excellent video and a compelling argument. Thank you.
eternalwolf777 2 months ago
ahahah these fucktards keep using bad words... big bang was designed? WTF STOP USING WORDS THAT REFER TO A FUCKING FLYING SPAGETI MONSTER.
exactly time is human invention, chance is human invention, GOD IS A FUCKING HUMAN INVENTION STOP FUCKING SAYING THERE IS ONE OR MULTIPLE ONES
ComAntNeLib 2 months ago
god is santa claus for adults.
SalamanderTalent 2 months ago
Well Said...
girotube 2 months ago
Todd Friel's favorite word is presupposition. Like the whole bible isn't based on that single word. Todd reminds me of a failed 80's stand up comic that lost his mind and threw away his ability to think critically.
Oh wait, that's really what did happen. Look it up.
metalsusa1 2 months ago
... and the big bang proves the God of Abraham? Nothing in this argument provides evidence for Yahweh. The fact that our universe supports life with such exact components is not evidence for anything. How about we evolved in our environment not our environment was created for us. How about the possibility of a multi verse and ours had the right combination of things to support life?
Massive fail.
metalsusa1 2 months ago
@blucas God flooded the earth because what he made turned on him like we are today. He made us perfect, but we failed to stay that way. God did however save you from hell, once again are you going to turn on him or accept? Thank you God bless
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
@dakotbeastj, Why would you respect a god that murdered all land life by drowning including pregnant women, babies, children and the purest of all of us because of a handful of wicked people.
God could have easily punished the wicked with a thought.
Do you really believe that man descended from the incest of Adam & Eve's children and later the incest of Noah's children giving White, Black, Brown & Asian people 5,000 years ago.
Evolution doesn't work that fast. That takes faith.
MrHoolits 2 months ago
@MrHoolits If you read the Bible it states that God populated the earth again after the second fall witch was the flood. In this time he also said men would not live past the age of 120 years and since no man or women has. Coincidence?
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
@dakotbeastj First the bible was not written by a god. They are stories past down by the ancients. A god did not get the virgin bride of Joseph of Nazareth pregnant.
Your beliefs are based on First Council of Nicaea ordered by Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 AD that they compile the stories into 1 book & later edited and heavily rewritten by the Roman Catholics in 397 AD at the Council of Carthage.
You have no idea what was excluded or destroyed when these men compiled your bible.
MrHoolits 2 months ago
@MrHoolits let me ask you when you read a history book, do you believe it? Why was you there? no it takes faith yes I believe that God got a virgin pregnant, and that he made you and me out of dust. I believe that God shows him self to us everyday, and we have to look. I believe that God gives us each and every breath that we take. I believe that Christmas is based on the birth of Christ born from an un worthy virgin. Yes I believe. I BELIEVE. I BELIEVE I BELIEVE
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
Comment removed
MrHoolits 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dakotbeastj,The difference in History is Alexander the Great, Caesar, Plato or Socrates were not gods.
Your beliefs are based on what a few ancient men wrote like Genesis Chapter 1 where god created a flat Earth with a dome & water above and below the dome.
We know this did not happen. God makes Earth first then "let there be light" making the Sun second.
Yes I understand you believe all of this but must do based on Faith as if it was fact there would be no Atheists & 1 religion.
MrHoolits 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dakotbeastj
'If you read the Bible it states that God populated the earth again after the second fall witch was the flood. In this time he also said men would not live past the age of 120 years and since no man or women has. Coincidence?'
I really hope that's a joke...
chablyukk 2 months ago
These preachers should have been sales men.
raganriley 2 months ago
This is such crap, it seems like it might actually be a joke.
junkdna83 2 months ago
The point is we are here. There is an estimated 500 billion galaxies. Giving this to an invisible creator is done so out of ignorance. We simply do not know and the Big Bang is based on an expanding Universe. 100 years from now that theory many chance as science is self correcting.
There may be supernatural powers in an infinite Universe. If there is, man has no idea what those powers are or what they think. Certainly ancient, superstitious men 1000s of years ago did not know so they made it up.
MrHoolits 2 months ago
@MrHoolits God isn't + and - he isn't something you can base on science, however if you were to base it on science you would find that our bodies have 1000 of tiny parts, and as you were saying there are 500 billion galaxies. So my question to you is how if everything is soo precise that there isn't a living God? How did all this come to be? The all powerful God made it. That's how. Or it just happened? Do you believe stuff in a history book? The Bible is the most important history book ever.
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
@dakotbeastj, Simple. I don't know & will not pretend to know or lie to myself and say I know or use opinions as facts.
I'm Agnostic, reject all man made religions but am honest to myself and say there might be powers like gods in an infinite and ageless Universe.
The Universe as far as man in concerned is not precise nor is Earth with floods, tsunamis, droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes, birth defects, blindness, deafness, born with missing limbs, retardation...
That isn't a precise Earth or man.
MrHoolits 2 months ago
@MrHoolits Well, there does seem to be some order amongst the chaos, don't you think? The cycles of the seasons, tides, movement of the planets and so on, are all happening in a universe of crashing galaxies, exploding stars, and so on. Seems like something went awry East of Eden. Just a thought.
SpeakaDaEnglish 2 months ago
@SpeakaDaEnglish, In a way there is order amongst chaos if you look at life on Earth in the last 10,000 years of so which is nothing when compared to the Milky Way Galaxy at 13.7 billion years.
Much of it short term until Earth's gravity pulls in another giant meteorite that smashes into the Earth killing all life or most of it.
We have meteorite showers all the time with most of it burning up, landing in the ocean but when we get with the big ones that smashed into Jupiter....
MrHoolits 2 months ago
@MrHoolits That Jupiter strike was pretty scary. I wonder why we don't get sucked in by the Sun? It's sucks us close, and then it hurls us away again. That's wild!
SpeakaDaEnglish 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
ladtheman1360 2 months ago
@ideologger how would you explain rainbows? other then because God told us as a promise that he would never again flood the earth. There's more proof of God then there is saying he isn't real. (which he is) Thank you and God bless you
dakotbeastj 3 months ago
@dakotbeastj Why did god need to flood the earth to destroy everything he created if he is perfect. He wouldnt have made imperfections in the first place. God is either a real life dumbshit, or he doesnt exist. :/
blucas6 2 months ago
@dakotbeastj How do I explain rainbows? With all due respect and sympathy, are you pulling my leg? Google "where do rainbows come from" and learn why they appear. It's actually very, very simple and edifying to learn. My 4 y/o son could explain it and I firmly believe you could understand it too. I don't think I've ever met a Christian or Jew that didn't understand that as symbolism or an etiological myth.
ideologger 2 months ago
@ideologger The fact remains that it states in the Bible something that we explain as water evaporates, and the sun comes out and it's there. When actually it's there because the Lord wanted it there. And yes I've seen laminin and the reason I say that is because the Lord was nailed on a cross that is in the same shape as Laminin. God shows himself to those who care enough to look. The way our bodies work is proof he lives. God is active everyday you live.God bless you. Merry Christmas
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
@dakotbeastj the Lord? what? are we back in feudal ages? said lord was nailed in a cross? so what? i say the flying spagety monster one time mated with a giant meatball and their sons were the earth and the sun. can you prove it wrong? can you prove you are right? no you cant do either of those
god doesnt show itself because it doesnt exist, its a human concept, i care about the truth i looked everywhere and what i saw was... NO FUCKING GODS EXIST. may you get hit by an airplane, happy pagan day
ComAntNeLib 2 months ago
@ComAntNeLib you can believe what you wish to believe but why don't you go ahead and respect those who disagree. Thank you and God bless you. I'll pray for you
dakotbeastj 2 months ago
@ideologger and what about the fossols that were found just feet below the surface of the earth? the only thing that could produce enough weight to make fossols that close to the surface would be lots of water. Where did that water come from? I think it was a flood that happened when God flooded the earth.
dakotbeastj 3 months ago
@dakotbeastj If you really believe this stuff, I take pity on you. There's no evidence of fossils "found just feet below the surface of the earth." If there were, it wouldn't much matter- there are accounts of similar creation and deluge myths that predate Judaism. There's actually no evidence of a global flood, sadly enough- I guess you won't have a good reason to convert to Baal worship.
ideologger 2 months ago
@ideologger do you know what Laminin does? it holds your body together. In Colossians 1:16-18
English Standard Version (ESV)
16For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. God holds all things together it's in the shape or form of a cross. that's how it's proof
dakotbeastj 3 months ago
@dakotbeastj Where does it say anything like "God holds all things together it's in the shape or form of a cross." Not in my Colossians (KJV, ESV, NASB, NEB, JB). And have you actually seen laminin? Not a schematic diagram, but picture of what it actually looks like. It's a lumpy 'x.' Must be proof that the Catholics are right, huh? Similar "proofs" can be found for many other religions. Muslim apologists make a dozen similar claims, and they're all just as as desperately sad.
ideologger 2 months ago
this guy is an idiot. Time is nothing, chance is nothing, if there is order, there must be an orderer.... WHITE NOISE.
RoverT1000 3 months ago
@RoverT1000 I fear some people will never understand that. Every time a coin flip lands in heads, some people will exclaim "LOOK! The Hand of God!" That coin could have landed in one of any billion of logically and physically possible configurations- but it landed heads up! Hallelujah!
ideologger 3 months ago
What a load of bullshit lol theres no proof, people are so fucking stupid
homeboy1615 3 months ago
@homeboy1615 Todd said as much at the beginning of this clip. He said there is no proof of God, but that God and Christian theology should be a PRESUPPOSITION. I presuppose the moon is made of smegma. Ergo, the moon is made of cheese. I OWNED YOU WITH SCIENCE AND LOGIC! That's how it works for him, William Lane Craig, etc.
ideologger 3 months ago
God is real for those who think different, go check out a thing called laminin study it. if that's not proof then what is?
dakotbeastj 3 months ago
@dakotbeastj How is it proof? It's a protein. It's a pretty cool protein, though! Even the nutjobs at Answers in Genesis think only a simpleton would take the shape of a protein as proof of God or of Christ's divinity. Next thing you know, you'll tell me Calicivirus is proof that Judaism is right and Jesus is wrong; Potassium Channel protein proves at least one of the following: Macs are better than PCs, Nazis were right, or Hitler is God. Do you really believe all of that?
ideologger 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WretchedNetwork 0:15 you do have to give logical reasons for why you have faith, Todd. 1 Peter 3:15. Quite trying so hard to be an ass. :]
jothmar 3 months ago in playlist More videos from WretchedNetwork
Comment removed
jothmar 3 months ago in playlist More videos from WretchedNetwork
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to Him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
poor atheists....
cinderella1976 3 months ago
atheists scream 'give us the evidence'. God says 'open your eyes and look around' The proof evident all around us in the creation is sufficient for God to consider men 'without excuse'. (Romans 1:20) That means you are under the full weight of the law and found guilty as charged unless you escape to the saving mercy of Jesus Christ.
servant714 3 months ago
@servant714 I think that's true. If you look around, it does make you wonder if we were "seeded" here or something. (That's one of those cool sounding words that scientists like).
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@SpeakaDaEnglish :-) Your right, even Dawkins conceded that life may have originated from an alien species. Do you get the feeling that extreme atheists will accept "anything but God!"
servant714 3 months ago
@servant714 Yes, I do.
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@servant714 The difference is, there is evidence for the possibility of panspermia. There is not evidence that God dun it. As a Christian, I'd LOVE to see evidence for the "God dun it" theory- it would only strengthen my faith. Telling lies to God's flock and lies to the unbelievers is a denial of Christ and shows the hatred people like Todd have for God. I hope that one day, people like Todd and you can put down the Devil's lies and come to Christ. God Bless!
ideologger 3 months ago
@ideologger It is an honor to be likened with Todd, thanks and my God will soon crush your god under His foot.
servant714 3 months ago
@servant714 Good luck with that. I doubt that your Lord Satan will be crushing anything under his foot anytime soon. Maybe a bit of brimstone.
ideologger 2 months ago
What is your evidence that the "orderer" is your god?
SamWiseGingy 3 months ago
@SamWiseGingy The evidence is history, the bible, Jesus and his own statements, prophecy in the bible, past miracles with eye witnesses...did i mention 6000 years of history that was started by the one true God, even science is evidence. The world knows, all the kings and queens knew, and know...Even the haters know...even you know because it is written on your heart. YET you and your wealth of experience and long life have been taught to fight against your creator. You should ask yourself why!
YouAreNotAMonkey 3 months ago
I see people here mentioned God. Therefore, you believe in Him. :-D
bblande 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bblande "I see people here mentioned God. Therefore, you believe in Him. :-D"
I would come up with a witty retort, but, uhh.... you have a really good point.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
God Exists
gweems828 3 months ago
I wish I would have had this kinda proof 40 years ago....... I had to RELY ON FAITH !
heygeno1951 3 months ago
A nice debunking of the cosmological argument:
watch?v=4u6Mz21jTaA
jwissick 3 months ago
Love ya my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus the Lord! Love ya sooo much! :)
AmericanConcrete 3 months ago
GOD AND EVIL IS IN EACH AN EVERYONE OF US
WE DECIDE WHOS GOING TO PLAY EACH DAY!
RELIGIOUS CRIPS CHANGE THE RULES GOD USED TO BE IN THE CLOUDS,
WE INVENTED THE AIR PLANE AND GOD WENT TO THE HEAVENS , WE INVENTED THE ROCKET AND WENT TO THE SPACE , WE WENT TO THE MOON AND NOW GOD MOVE TO THE END OF THE UNIVERSE!!
elpedorro2 3 months ago
@elpedorro2
God is everywhere. From the highest heaven to the lowest hell. God did not move anywhere.
gneisenau321 3 months ago
@elpedorro2 So you are basically claiming that you are..part..god? ok......whatever. Sorry, but the concepts you provide mean nothing. The men used to write the bible never thought that God was on top of a cloud or on the moon. God is seperate from His creation.
25blue24 3 months ago
@ddrninjette. I agree with you but I have no doubt it does not have those qualities. Also it ran on instinct and in the end was very tasty. Good night all.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
The Bible declared that all atheists are fools (Psalm 14:1)
ChristiansofAsia 3 months ago
Of course he didnt show the response by hitchens, and im pretty sure those figures are not exacty 100%...this world DOES NOT work perfectly, there are things that are horribly "designed"!!!!
TheJdecka 3 months ago
Comment removed
YouAreNotAMonkey 3 months ago
@YouAreNotAMonkey My favorite proof that God esists is the first line in the bible.
IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth.
Jesus died so the scoffers can be saved too. And they can/will have a great reward, but for some reason they fight against what they know in their hearts to be true. They choose to fight for Satan? Jesus came for their sins too if they will only repent and trust and follow. Sin is not worth choosing hell. Jesus showed pure love to die for you, for you too!
YouAreNotAMonkey 3 months ago
Want to know the worst part about this entire argument of order/constants...
The creation is under a curse.
Imagine it without the curse!
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God
Amen!
droptozro 3 months ago
Same basic building blocks don't always mean realationship. You would argee that most things on earth are made from the same simple elements (carbon, oxygen etc) but we see huge diversity in life and non life in the world. Secondly human brains are not as simmilar to animal brains as you make it out to be, human brains have special characteristics to them such as, humor, recognition of time, beuty, death, morality, love etc. This will be my last post, I know nothing I say will change your mind.
GrabBagMovies 3 months ago
"You would argee that most things on earth are made from the same simple elements (carbon, oxygen etc) but we see huge diversity in life and non life in the world."
Yea, even the way the same building blocks operate differently within the same organism is mysterious. The alimentary canal contains gray matter for example, much like what is found in the human brain, but that doesn't mean we reason with our intestines. lol
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@SpeakaDaEnglish I don't know about you, but that gives all new meaning to the phrase, "gut feeling."
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette lol Yes.
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
Can you back that claim up with evidince? You just made an accusation against me saying that I don't understand where the brain came from. Okay then, what about the brain shows that evolution is real?
GrabBagMovies 3 months ago
@GrabBagMovies
Our brain cells, brain molecules, neurotransmitters and synapses are almost identical in all animals – so the brains of insects, fish, reptiles, birds and mammals are all made from the same 'building blocks'. If we are really supposed to be seporate from the animals, why make the brain from the same materials?
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick - Why not make the brain from the same materials? Why should the human brain be entirely alien from the rest of Creation? The fact that human brains are like animal brains proves that there is a Creator who had a design in mind. Besides, it's not our physiology that makes us separate from the animals, James. It's our spirit. You claim to be a former Christian, so that's something you should know. I'm not surprised that you don't.
JMcH 3 months ago
@JMcH So, if the design seems based off previous models, it's a sign of intelligent design. What does it mean when you find an all-new design?
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette Um... Even under evolutionist beliefs, animals living today are NOT "previous models."
JMcH 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JMcH "Um... Even under evolutionist beliefs, animals living today are NOT "previous models.""
Actually, I think that's the general idea of evolution. Each generation passes traits from the previous generation or "models" if you like.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@JMcH I do know you believe it.
It's a foolish belief without basis.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick - The fact that you don't act like an animal proves you wrong.
JMcH 3 months ago
@JMcH I act like an animal because I am an animal. Hell, I'm going to sleep soon. That's like... super animal behavior.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@JMcH No. We don't act like animals at all. We don't mate, sleep, eat, claim territory, etc...
Oh. Wait.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick
gneisenau321 3 months ago
@jwissick You actually make a good point here j. This is one of the reasons I believe in my Creator. The fact that both man and animals posses similar attributes such as you mentioned above it shows that we have the same designer. You and I look at it from opposite directions. I would have said the animals act like us as opposed to us acting like the animals but in the end the design is similar in many ways. My authority is Gods written Word as opposed to mans own secular conclusions.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Reading in on your exchange about animals and human with jwissick made me refer to Genesis to see that animals were indeed created before humans. So maybe GOD drew inspiration from his previous creation (the animals) to then craft humanity...or it could be as you said; From all the time that animals have spent with humans, they have simply adopted our manners. Could go either way.
crzytasha 3 months ago
@JMcH Cause he wished the other animals into existence.... and you believe we are made out of dirt.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick - You believe we came from a puddle of goo. Not much of a difference there.
JMcH 3 months ago
@JMcH
You used a straw man, I didn't. Derp!
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick - Um, nope. What I said about what you believe about the origins of life is accurate. You call it "primordial soup" to make it sound like it's scientific when it's not.
JMcH 3 months ago
@jwissick
We are separate from the animals not in creation - you ignoramus. We're separate from the animals in ability and purpose. The Bible says that God breathed into humanity a 'Spirit,' that we were created in his image, so, unlike the animals, we can understand Truth, the Abstract, Morality, and we can reason among other things animals cannot.
aveyowyns 3 months ago
@aveyowyns What about animals like gorillas or dolphins capable of abstraction, morality, and reason, etc?
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette really?
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Yeah, gorillas can speak sign-language, for example. In fact, a friend of mine, Koko the gorilla, was taught sign language. (We met because Koko got sued, and my mom represented her). She owned a cat. She loved that cat to death. But it got hit by a car. When she was told about her poor cat, she mourned for weeks.
As for dolphins, they can do math among other things. They are very smart.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette That is incredible, I just watched a video where a zoo has a parrot that can talk. I mean have you ever seen a talking parrot. In fact they use this parrot to raise funds. I even seen this parrot on TV so it must true.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Actually, one of the first questions raised by sign talking primates was whether or not they were actually communicating or parroting movements. However, when the primates began creating new sign languages based off the old ones, that idea was put to rest.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 And, also like in the example, when told Koko's cat died, Koko understood the implications and became sad. There's no way something just mimicking sounds or movements could do that.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette but really......I really want to know how science or was it animal physcology got into the head of the beast to determine this was the actual emotion being felt. Come on, this is one of those arguments that other smart guys on your side would probably put their hand over their mouths and mumble softly while looking your way "don't go there". This trail you are on will end in a trainwreck.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959
We are not that different from the other apes. We have all the same parts. They react the same ways when their friends die or get hurt. These are observable, predictable, measurable events!
jwissick 3 months ago
@ddrninjette I sometimes think that the secular science community of faithfull followers and preachers are going to have a nervouse breakdown just trying to keep up with the ever changing theories to justify their faith. Yikes, take a breath or you will get a migraine.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Good science follows the evidence. There is no conspiracy or secret "faith." o_O
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette "Good", do you think your a good person............all right I won't go there.
:-()
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@ddrninjette just one more rant before I hit the rack. This subject of beasts ability to reason and have emotions to the degree you SEEM to be implicating makes me wonder if the buck that I just shot with my .270 round is thinking as he runs away (all be it not far) rats, i've just been shot now I'm going to die. I don't want to die. Could we observe this event enough times to make a determination?
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 I doubt that buck you shot understood the concept of death and permanence, though, I hope you did everything you could to minimize its suffering.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Deer? Not likely.
A great ape, elephant, or others likely would.
jwissick 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Have you seen the African Grey Parrots that can reason and grasp abstract concepts?
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick again j the animal kingdom is indeed amazing. And again I see Gods design and intelligence as opposed to your millions of years of chance.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 There is NO chance in evolution aside from the randomness of mutations.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick Let's not undermine the role chance plays in evolution. :)
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette I agree animals are smart. It is not just Koko that understands language and can communicate. Animals can understand gestures, understand generated emotion and threats, they communicate many ways, and use objects to assist them in their pursuits. So just because an ape stuck a stick in an ant-hole to get some bugs does not mean that, wow, humans are apes too. That is a jump in logic. Animals are proof of a creator too. God is amazing indeed. Koko rocks! BUT Penny is lost without God
YouAreNotAMonkey 3 months ago
@YouAreNotAMonkey Don't be silly. Humans are apes because humans are primates with short or no tails. Humans are part of the hominidae family which includes all great apes. Saying that humans are apes is purely taxonomic and has nothing to do with giant leaps of logic.
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@YouAreNotAMonkey Animals can communicate, but they don't speak. That's another major attribute that distinguishes humans from all other living creatures, apes included. (Unless of course you count Baalam's donkey). :D
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@SpeakaDaEnglish Yes, humans are very unique in our ability to communicate orally, which is partially what makes the whole "talking snake" in Genesis thing so unbelievable to most people. :)
ddrninjette 3 months ago
@ddrninjette Yes, there's all sorts of supernatural phenomena like the snake, the donkey, the burning bush, speaking to rocks, etc... of course that's a whole other ball of Biblical wax. Sometimes I wonder if animals really do have something to say, but just can't say it (at least not without a miracle). They are pretty smart.
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@SpeakaDaEnglish But the ape can speak through sign language. Unless you are saying the deaf using sign language can't speak either.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick The deaf can speak as well, silly.
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago
@aveyowyns Really? Then why do all social mammals have their own sets of morals?
Oops.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick really?
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Really.
jwissick 3 months ago
@jwissick touche'
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@jwissick Morals is a tough one to be applying to animals. Hmm, I think you would have a hard time convincing anyone that animals have morals. Sure I agree that within their communities there is a standard of behavior that needs to be conformed to but morals. Tough one to prove.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959 Actually it's not hard at all.
Wild Justice by Prof Marc Bekoff, ecologist at University of Colorado, Boulder
jwissick 3 months ago
@aveyowyns Good grief, relax and reason. Just because they don't play nice doesn't mean you can't.
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
@RVGuy1959
Please... Go away.
aveyowyns 3 months ago
@aveyowyns :-) tsk! tsk!
RVGuy1959 3 months ago
Comment removed
fizzkick 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In the beginning, I AM created the heavens and the earth!!
theist77 3 months ago
I didn't hear him say that he believed in the big bang.
SpeakaDaEnglish 3 months ago