José Piñera - Reinventing Social Security for the 21st Century [1/8]

[maisantaerikakirea]

people should expose piñera...he destroy our national industry in chile as neoliberalism has no patriotic compromise and is opened to the wild competence of the merchandises, piñera privatized evrything as a result his brother the actual president of chiole cannot control the students protests of the students in debt. piñera speaks about statistics, they show cile as a stron economy (just stupid numbers) why he doesnt show the highest level of inequality created by his fucking system in Chile???

[apango2000]

What a bunch of crap.

If Piñera is the "Placido Domingo" of the pension world

Then Jack Abramoff is the "Placido Domingo" of honesty.

[MrReco12]

@apango2000

i can;t stand the Pinochet grub as well.

[joselgr]

José Piñera and the ministers of pinochet's government sold 725 state enterprises to themselves in 20 percent of their value.

This is a fact LANCHILE, IANSA etc....

[apango2000]

This is precious

This is what the new president of Chile had to say about the country's pension system

"Chile's social security system requires deep reforms in all sectors, because half of Chileans have no pension coverage, and of those who do, 40 percent are going to find it hard to reach the minimum level".(about 100 dollars a month!)

This new president happens to be the brother of the person peddling this hoax as a miracle that will solve the world's problems.

[apango2000]

These people should know better, private retirement accounts (IRAs) have been a reality in the US for decades. They are highly efficient, highly competitive, flexible, transparent, adequately regulated, offer an almost infinite number of options and more importantly, they are strictly voluntary. The complete opposite of what happened in Chile with the hoax these people are trying to sell.

[vorbeigehende]

and you don't need to pay social security?(or how do you name pension payments in USA)

[apango2000]

@vorbeigehende

Do not understand your point. Most economist point to the need to have several sources of income for retirement. In the US we have SS, we have IRAs and some have employer pension plans. In Chile there is only AFPs which according to their own records will only provide benefits for less that half of the workers.

[vorbeigehende]

But SS is a Ponzi scheme, isn't it? You pay now for the people who are already retired and hope that someone will pay for your retirement later on. And Ponzi scheme can function only if the influx of new members is fairly constant. It's not the case at least here in Europe with our demography (especially here in Germany with birth rate 1.2).

[apango2000]

No it isnt

A Ponzi scheme is by definition a fraud. A scheme in which people get something for nothing (such as the pension administrators in Chile who pocket 20 to 30 cents of every dollar invested for doing practically nothing)

In SS you contribute today and based on your contributions youll get a future benefit. No fraud, no gimicks and no one gets somethig for nothing.

[vorbeigehende]

"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned."

This is the common definition of a Ponzi scheme. SS is precisely that. It doesn't generate any profit but uses money paid by subsequent investors (in this case young working people).

[apango2000]

SS just in 2008 had earnings of over 1 billion dollars, this is on top of the income from payroll taxes.

Let's get serious. There is no fraud in SS, no one is running away with your money. You pay into it and at retirement you get a benefit.

[vorbeigehende]

earning or payments?

wait till baby-boomers retire

economicshelp . org / images / micro /dependency-ratio

to get serious is really a good idea.

dependency ratio will go up. more people receive, less people pay. it's not sustainable. Especially in Europe

economicshelp . org/images/labourmarkets/devel­opment-dependence-fr-uk.gif

[apango2000]

Simple scare tactics

Even with the dire assumptions made by the SS trustees into infinity, it would take minor adjustments in taxes, benefits, retirement age or a combination to maintain sustainability forever

Furthermore, if the dire economic assumptions used to create this artificial "crisis" were to become true, investing payroll taxes in the stock and bond markets would be the perfect recipie for loosing your shirt.

[vorbeigehende]

in USA probably

but in Spain, in Japan, in Germany

where taxes are already high, SS = 19,9 %

image it will double (and it will) retirement age is already 67.

[apango2000]

I have not studied the situation in those countries but the point that I'm trying to make is that privatization has not solved the problem in any of the countries that have tried it, quite the contrary it has made the situation worst.

[apango2000]

Piñera is not reinventing Social Security; he is, or at least trying to reinvent reality. One only needs to look at Manuel Riesco (Chiles leading economist) paper entitled 25 Years Reveal Myths of Privatized Federal Pensions in Chile to see the monumental shortcomings and failures of the ponsi scheme he insist on selling us.

[emspeed1]

Ponzi scheme- A fraud disguised as an investment opportunity, in which initial investors and the perpetrators of the fraud are paid out of funds raised from later investors, and the later investors lose all funds invested.

Sounds remarkably like Social Security here in the U.S. not the Chilean system which has earned 10% on average per year. Hey, that article by Krugman that you pointed me to, Why did his chart come from a third rate source and only go to 1991? Maybe to propagate his bias?

[apango2000]

@emspeed1

Do not be silly, without Social Security tens of millions of americans would live in poverty right now.

The Krugman article I refered you to contains no charts

You are one confused fellow, I am sorry to say.

[aghoranathi]

Globalization will be the end of votes.