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From: tarkineWild
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  • Looks like we have arrived after all these years at the point where more than "1%" will know what the hell the IMF is.

    "Kiss the ladies/Shake hands with the fellas/And it's, open for business like a cheap bordello/And they call it Democracy..."

  • Shove it Obama.

  • @eldorado61guy

    Actually it's about the IMF , you know what that is right?

  • Anthem for a revolution

  • Lucid, Searing and stunning Bruce.

  • Bruce Cockburn is still a very avant-garde performer who really has been attached what he really believes in his own philosophy in music. Now with the WallStreet movements against greed this song points what we are really living in what it really calls democracy

  • How much money did he make from shitting on capitalism

  • @cpkcpk2001 not enough.............

  • this is my morning alarm every day.

    Peace to Bob Hunter. forever

  • this is my morning alarm every day.

    

  • This may be the only popular rock song written about the IMF at the time, but plenty of Carribean artists have written about the IMF as well as Argentine artists. A great song by a great artist

  • It's Punk that couldn't find it's distortion pedal, so it found Bruce Cockburn.

  • Billy Bragg wrote "North Sea Bubble" about the IMF. That would be a double bill of my wildest dreams, Billy and Bruce.

  • @Bigguns - that ain't capitalism, it's corporatism. So, BTW is socialism. It's all government, and it's all immoral.

  • a great songwriter/musician we hear little in my cell

  • Just to rebuff this statement ""Call it Democracy" is perhaps the only song ever written about the International Monetary Fund": there is at least one other song, by the portuguese songwriter José Mário Branco, named "FMI". :)

  • As a new Canadian (25yrs) and one who has lived through some of the worst exccesses of Thatcherism, in another life. I can see a mirror image in Harper in Canada now.

    Sadly though the minority elected a majority (they call it democracy) I am so happy that at last the majority have seen the sense to elect a Socialist Party who will provide REAL opposition and at the next election will be the first Socialist government in North America. Think about the wonders we can achieve!

  • As a new Canadian (25yrs) and one who has lived through some of the worst exccesses of Thatcherism, in another life. I can see a mirror image in Harper in Canada now.

    Sadly though the minority elected a majority (they call it democracy) I am so happy that at last the majority have seen the sense to elect a Socialist Party who will provide REAL opposition and at the next election will be the first Socialist government in North America. Think about the wonders we can achieve!

  • There only needs to be one song because this one says it all. Great post!

  • this sums it up quite nicely!

  • communist

    1:34 : This is the only part that people apparently care about.

  • @MachintoshCJ What are you blathering on about fool? Communist? LOL 

  • communist

  • Comment removed

  • anyone know what kind of guitar Bruce is playing here?

  • @ChrstphrClrk

    I believe it is a Charvel Surfcaster

  • I have a degree in International Development & Bruce hits the main points of the injustice of the system. World Bank & IMF overfunded developing countries with high interest loans that make it hard for them to ever get ahead, the military industrial complex (mainly in the US) profits from conflict around the world, Europe and North America have allowed elites in developing countries to have power and siphon off money as long as they keep it stable for Multinational business interests.

  • @fullersDuck. Is that a real quote or are you just making up the truth?

  • Again in Lybia...

  • I feel like a smart dinosaur; I wish that I could stop thinking about the end of life on this planet, but it's happening--Bruce Cockburn knew it well before Gore didn't sign Kyoto--which was insufficient. Or will we blow the place up? It's a question of when, not if.

  • ahhh.. disagree with him some. only some. Nevertheless, that is a really catchy tune; always liked it. thanks for posting it.

  • I've always had the sense that Mr Cockburn's lack of general popularity in the USA has a lot to do with his candor and willingness to give things the names they deserve. His biography is very interesting! I saw him do a one-man show at a small venue in PA, and even by himself, he can really deliver.

  • LOVIN THAT GUITAR TONE

  • Such a good song.

    Interviewer to Eddie van Halen " What's it like to be the best guitarist in the world?"

    Eddie van Halen "Ask Bruce Cockburn."

  • @FullersDuck That's an apocryphal quote, and it's been applied to everyone from Phil Keaggy on down.

  • @FullersDuck That's actually an oft-repeated urban legend...But just because it didn't happen, doesn't mean it shouldn't have :)

  • Such a good song.

  • wow that was goodddddd

  • With all the wikileaks drama this week I haven't stopped listening to Bruce all week. We need people like Bruce now more than ever!

  • For decades Bruce has been telling truths. He is one of the few real prophets we have left today. I thank you Bruce.

  • Nice memories... By that time I was making money with the metod posted at ez-casino(dot)com (I don't know if it's still there), but I became almost rich, now I live in the Bahamas :D

    

  • A few weeks back the IMF gave two more seats to third world countries but hardly any newspapers reported it...huh

  • The USA is not a democracy it is a REBUBLIC. Republic means rule of law.

    Democracy is MOB rule. Nothing more and nothing less. You wanna be ruled by a mob? Carefull what you wish for, it may come true.

  • great performance

  • great performance

  • Fuckin Amazing

  • Socialism is a cruel tyrannical evil imposed on men by the wicked.

  • "We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."

    —Nikita Khrushchev

    "We will bury your grand-children without firing a shot"

    -Khrushchev (on turning the West communist from within).

  • What a tight band and an amazing tone on Bruce's guitar!! Oh and a great song too!

  • Still challenged by this songs after so many years. Listen to the words. Why do we continue to bind the poor? Idolatry of ideology.

  • Crooks existed since the dawn of time I'm sure. I'm sure there a primates getting screwed over by other primates. The world is a cruel place and has plenty of crooks.

  • the

  • bruce is a great person love his music he is one of the best

  • I LOVE to see a happy man on the kit.

  • great stuff, Bruce. I have seen this guy perform three times. Everything he is saying is still true and then some. 

  • Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt.................

  • "That song is fifteen years old and it shows. The words are outdated. Back in 1985, they needed the notion of 'democracy' to justify what they were doing. Now they don't even use that as an excuse."

    [Bruce Cockburn commenting after a searing version of "Call It Democracy,"

    -- [paraphrase] from performance at Calvin College, Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA. 5 May 2000.

  • @pekoe67 So true. Now it's all about security. Reagan was spouting the word democracy. George H. Bush the new world order. Clinton was busy with the women and G. W. Bush was all over the word security and terrorists.

    Most people have the blinkers on and can't see what's been happening since WWII. Ya. it was crap before the war as well but it was a different system. Now 98% of the citizens get treated like shit. Most of the nations in the world still don't count.

  • America isn't Democracy, its suppose to be a Constitutional Republic!!!!

  • @whiteej21 yes, that was indeed my implication. i laid the sarcasm on so thick i didn't think it was possible to be misinterpreted.

  • america is by far the worse nation for capitalism, they have so many socialist things already...teachers, fire departments,etc, but when it comes to the real money, its about politicians making money first, about businesses making money first....and the government making money first......just imagine if all those rich people and celebrities donated just 10 percent of their yearly wages to the poor....they dont, they set up there charities so that the normal people pay and they do nothing.

  • its a fuckin hi proxy

  • I'm really pissed off Bruce!!!...BP is killing our oceans!!!!

  • fuckin a right. every single word of it!

  • @MainTightSqueeze -Bruce woke me up in the 70's!!!! I owe him. ~JTC

  • @JeffTheCanuck2 Thnx for the contribution and link Jeff .And yes, Bruce woke me from my prozaic state in the mid 80's

  • @tarkineWild Do you think Bruce is a Constitutionalist?

  • IMF dirty MF alright

  • @whiteej21 health care is free here in canada? interesting... see i had always thought we were paying for indirectly via taxes.

  • Taking as opportunity of this song i would like to welcome the IMF to my country Greece.

    For you that you don't know they have already "closed" the deal.

    The increase the tax to everything second time this year and cut the salaries from employees from public sector and from the pensions of the people.

    They haven t lost their touch....

  • My type of Christian. Recall, please, Jesus whipping out the money lenders who brought all the misery to the common people as they do still today.

  • @hypno59 Is that not why they got out the hamer and nails for christ,was he not the first socialist.

  • saw him play this song at the Warfield Theatre in San Francisco ROCKING it, sent chills up our spines with exhilaration and so current and relevant in 2010 ~ such a kick ass political song saying it all - well could add all the bankers on wall street, Goldman Sachs and the rest of em - so, wishing someone could post more live versions of it! And he still ripens with age, virtuoso visionary!

  • I love this song

  • Thank You Bruce for this song *

    New Brunswick Canada is in need of you "Democracy"

  • Bruce is Canada's little known prophet.

  • AGENDA 21 LOOK IT UP!!!!

  • personally there are individual canadians who need help right now..(myself being one of them right now) sorry globe..

  • FOOCKIN' A

  • KellyLogan and beehak...floating a false dialogue. Not left v right, but tyranny v freedom. The Strategy of Tension...old and well known.

    The roots of many 'Foundations' lie in Rome.  Almost all are members of the cartel.

    All part of the public record.

  • The Day Will Come and Time Will Pass as we will suffer it so for now. Only a short time no worries Peace!

  • Not in our lifetimes, brother. Though the next attempt at holocaust (sacrifice) will be.

  • nelemak - a rather ignorant sophist of Rome. To each one of the contentions regarding the US...a link to Roman subversion.

    And having lived in the US and elsewhere...one notes both the actors and the actions for what they are.

    The Living Christ rages against tyranny...and noted that the most direct action in fighting said is to upset their trade on ignorance. The first temple upon which they have based their trade...is us.

  • Great post tW

    thanks for putting the words up

    My mum once called this song "preaching to the converted"

    but the converted need to hear the truth shouted out loud and clear once in a while

    when I need a pick me up about how the poor get trounced by the rich in this world

    I turn this way up and say

    right on Bruce

    Billy Bragg's version of Leon Rosselson's "World Turned Upside Down" can be cheering too..

  • The IMF is a monetary weapon, owned and operated by the Roman money cartels.

    The sea of all discourse on political systems breaks upon the rock of 'ism's'. It is all a strategy of tension, meant to divide rather than solve anything, to subvert rather than build.

    The model of the early US was perfect, in that it allowed unfettered advancement of the individual, to whom money may acrue if others found merit in him or his industry.

    A Community of thought and deed, not 'isms'.

  • moneycounters. Thats what they are called, and against whom jesus raged at the temple...

    The pharisees who were preaching only a certain form of coin was allowed,,, and they were the sole providers of this money.... and sold it at terribly inflated prices!

  • I've just discovered Bruce Cockburn (via the book "The Shack" by Wm Paul Young). He's become one of my faves

  • liberals love the IMF until they realize it is an abject failure. Rather than criticizing the IMF as another failed socialist solution they recast it as an instrument of capitalism.

    According to liberals everything exploitive is an instrument of Capitalistism . That is not honest debate. Most critically it will not help the poor.

    So I ask. Do liberals "really give a flying *uck about the people in misery" or are they really just interested in furthering their ideology?

  • Well, the notion of capitalism as a "rising tide" theory is proving itself untrue. Millions live in poverty while hundreds own the country, it's laws, and money. That isn't helping the poor. Socialism does, and has proven itself to help the poor.

    Do you believe that liberals want to create socialism for no other reason but to say we're socialist now? Socialism provides basic needs to all people and not only those most capable or savy or malicious. It's a fair system. Problem?

  • Proving itself untrue where? Where is capitalism failing?

    India faltered for years until it dropped its silly socialist policies. It not grows. China, is a similar example.

    Perhaps you like the economic performance of Cuba, and North Korea. Venezuala is in decline despite its oil.

    Perhaps you are thinking of Denmark, Norway, Sweden & Finland. These are not socialist countries they are as much capitalist as they are socialist.

  • Mixed economies like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland have the best health care outcomes, lowest infant mortality, virtually no Corruption in Government.....

    And morons still argue on the internet about which failed extremist ideology (maxism V Laissez faire) is ideal.

  • Actually you have know idea what the "health care outcomes" are of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

    You mistake life expectancy and live birth rate numbers for "health care outcomes." That is a fraud...more dishonesty from the left.

  • the key issue is solidarity. without it such reforms cause only hate, hate and more hate.

    fact is your american society is incredibly divided, blacks hate whites to the point of deliberately not making any effort in school... afraid progress or learning to read would constitute "whiteness".

    And such divisions, made even more bitter by escalating invasions of immigrants makes solidarity a ever more obscure goal... even within racial groups. (see bowling alone)

  • Solidarity can only come through Awareness...not the bayonet point. Rome has ever favored and adopted the latter.

  • I'm currently living in a country that capitalism, specifically 'free market' and 'neo-colonial' capitalism, has failed. It's called the USA; perhaps you've heard of it.

    We have rising inflation and unemployment, coupled with a massive redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle class to the top 1% earners.  Rampant deregulation and lax enforcement has led to corporations growing beyond all reason or control, distorting the market and leaving the country in a constant state of crisis.

  • Capitalism was not meant to be a rising tide and no one valid assumed it would be.

    Free enterprise is a rising tide, whereas the aggregation of large amounts of capital in the hands of a few is a tyranny.

    Socialism, Capitalism...all -ism...a construct of Rome and inferior (not to mention antithetical) to base Liberty.

  • Agree

  • @Bigguns222 If you mean "fair" In that it kills competition, innovation, industry, drags the majority toward poverty and encourages government tyranny (once you cross a certain age it's "unfair" that you get the life-saving surgery and a pre-natal clinic doesn't get given a grant to refurbish their lamaze classroom) Then I suppose so. Which socialist nation(s) have been more roundly successful than the USA? Many of them are running out of money and are embracing austerity plans.

  • @silvi01977 I suggest you carry out some research into Economics. You will find that the nations that were FORCED to remove social safeguards by the IMF have growing poverty and crime. If you go to the extreme and look at the communist countries that embraced free trade then you will see that the number of people living in poverty has skyrocketed. I would suggest France/Germany/Sweden/Denmark are more successful for the majority of their citizens than the US while having social policies.

  • The idea that the IMF is in any way socialist is patently absurd. The IMF does not support any classicly 'socialist'-identified policies, and in fact generally forces countries to privatize their resources, allow outside corporations to buy up their land and manufacturing, and reduce or remove labor and civil rights laws for those corporations.

    The IMF's model country, that gave in to all of their demands, was Argentina, which subsequently economically collapsed.

  • "The IMF's model country, that gave in to all of their demands, was Argentina, which subsequently economically collapsed. "

    And Argentina is less free market after the "reforms" than before. Go figure. Thanks for making my point for me.

  • LOL - Whatever you say, behaack. I was under the impression that privatizing nationalized industries, cutting gov. spending, promoting business, and cutting labor laws made it more 'free market', not less. Maybe that's just me. :^)

  • The Heritage Foundationsays the state's role in the economy has expanded since the start of the Kirchner administration. It is engaged in price fixing in some industries and the creation of a state-owned airline and a state-owned energy company. The Heritage Foundation assigns Argentina a score of 3.3 (mostly unfree) in economic freedom on a scale of 1 to 5 of, which places the country in the 109th position of the 157 evaluated at the Index of Economic Freedom.

    This is what you call free?

  • The Heritage Foundation Moonies? Really? The rabid neo-cons that promoted the Reagan doctrine of pushing money and weapons into the hands of every dictator and military junta that said they would 'fight the commies', including the Afghan Mujahadeen (Al-Qaeda)? These are the guys that say that the best way to help the environment is to fast-track failed nuclear power plant projects and to let "nuclear waste producers to finance and manage their own spent nuclear fuel however they see fit..."

  • @behaack Heritage Foundation? You're kidding right?

    What does Rush Limbaugh say. Might as well go to the source.

  • @KellyLogan you are very smart person I would say woman with "Kelly" who knows. you must be involved with education??

  • My mum once kindly commented "he's kind of preaching to the converted", but hey, I need a little preaching now and again, and nobody does this kind of thing as good as him. His lyrics come to me in the middle of my day like a shining light, and keep me going.

    Love the whale sound guitar solo on the album.

    Agreed, he should have headlined at some of those 100,000 strong peace marches in Washington.

    He chose to go with a small record company, they didn't know how to market him Stateside.

  • Poignant-Strong song lyrically and instrumentally...Cockburn is a profound talent. and i am a guilty apathetic observer to the crimes of bastards.

  • And abbesieyes, may'be if people actually loved one another instead of judging one another, we could make some positive change, and about "those" who (Absolute power, corrupts absolutely), they can hide in the shadows for a little, but in the end God will judge them for their heinous, vile acts against innocent people like you and me, they will NOT get away with murder or corruption, they listen not to Jesus, but the Devil who tells them lies and decieveth the whole world.

  • Curt...We are commanded to provide a Reason of our Faith. Judgement as critical to proper logic and argument. The argument of waiting upon God to change things, when it is we who are Gods hands here...is a sophistry born of Rome.

    I love and respect my enemy, however that does not imply that I offer myself up to him.

    If, after turning the other cheek, the enemy persists...well, even the face of the Buddha should not be rubbed thrice.

  • I do understand that we have to change things, and i'm not waiting for God to do stuff, but rather he uses me to accomplish his will on earth, we have to protest against these corrupt elites

  • The time for mere protest passed long ago.

    Sadly.

  • Saw him back in 1982, glad to see that's he's still got it. Always wondered why he wasn't a bigger star in the US, he's such an amazing songwriter. Actually I do know why - this is a country that appeals to the lowest common denominator which is why Britney Spears and JLo are 'singing' stars.

  • jono11 - Your guild by association tactics are as weak as your intellect.

    To speak to reality, the Illuminati (in its current itteration and seperate from the Illumbrados) is a contruct of Weishaupt, a Jesuit. Thanks for playing.

    As to dismal failures, you have only to look in the mirror. I wirte like someone with something more than a 7th grade education...my apologies if you have trouble with it.

    If you are the measure of 'a real person', I weep for humanity.

  • typo *guilt by association

  • Any secret society is the enemy of Christ's Peaceable Kingdom

  • Great song

  • Jono01: I suggest that you verify your facts before you hurl stones of judgment at Bruce Cockburn. Mr. Cockburn has performed in the Southern part of the United States-Birmingham, Alabama included - and did not hold back. He has repeatedly spoken out and acted against irresponsible, immoral, and amoral regimes, while others hide behind desks and computers or remain silent. He has put his life, actions, and name on the line; no complacency or self-aggrandizement.

  • What are these "acts" he's done against regimes? I'd love to hear about them.

  • He's observed and reported, which what a Bards calling *is*.

  • Additionally, there have been no major wars that did not further the goals of Counter Reformation and Inquisition...world wide.

  • abbesieyes, i'm referring to bruce and his lyrics and what HE takes them to mean... here is a quote of his re: this song.

    "That song was an attempt to vent what I understood about the inequity of the 'north-south' economic relationship. That inequality still exists - I thought of that song a lot when all the protests against globalization were taking place in Seattle, Genoa and Quebec City."

  • The meaning is quite clear in the words.

    He understands who underwrote and continues to underwrite the 'internationalists'. He goes to the philosophical source of the slave state concept ...the jesuit reductions. He properly notes the basis of most tyranny - the concept of Divine Right as still espoused by the RCC and much of European 'royalty'.

    And had he been any clearer in the context of a quote...the quote would have been buried.

  • ok, ok... i'll do the research... eventually... well... i spent my "time" under the thumb of the catholic church... there are good things... but the "business" is completely corrupt and immoral

  • There are generally good and trusting people everywhere. The fault lies solely with those who abuse the trust.

  • You're psychotic in your delusion. It's not about Catholics. It's about a military-industrial complex.

  • But of course I am. Everyone applying base logic to issues is considered quite mad by the sheep. The sheep, after all, are quite satisfied wandering around the paddock. That is until the shepherd tires of merely taking the wool, and wishes the mutton.

    It wasn't about 'Catholics' the first time around. It was about the errant Executive and The Orders. Kings don't hold to the fairy tales they tell their people.

    Divine rights trump your rights...until you take them back.

  • You're so absurd. As if a dying, decaying, failing institution of religious faith with an ever-dwindling sphere of influence was somehow dominating the world.

    Why can't people like you ever get passionate about REAL problems, the issues that are REAL and really matter? Why do you have to invent some half-baked fuckwad theorem? Is the world not damaged enough for you? Can you not find enough in the real world to decry?

    You're despicable.

  • I highlight the valid. Your lies are truly despicable.

    watch?v=Z-I44rCeA2U&feature=ch­annel_page

    Google 'continuing counter reformation' and learn something valid.

    Would that it were a failing institution, but it is not. If it was merely religious it would have no need of the overarching temporal power it both demands and consolidates.

    Rome is the Mother of REAL problems...especially for FREE people.

  • It's not about Catholics, but the same war takes place between Liberation Theologists, who actually work to alleviate misery in the poorest parts of the world, and the Nazi Pope in Rome who is trying to purge them from the Church.

  • Its about Catholics insofar as they remain within the body of something corrupt.

    And the 'Liberation Theology' of the Jesuits is nothing more or less than the same old tactic of insurrection they've practiced since their inception. It has nothing to do with alleviating the misery of the peasants. The Divine Rights crowd cares not one whit for the 'peasantry'.

    The PanzerKardinal is in full accord with the aims and tactics of the Jesuit Order.

  • Are you sure it isn't the Illuminati's fault? Perhaps something to do with the moon-landing conspiracy, and the gunman on the grassy knoll?

    You are a dismal failure. Your mind is wasted on a practical joke it's played on itself. Your passion is meaningless. Your language is insipid and bombastic. "Cares not one whit"? What the fuck are you, the King James Version? Talk like a real Goddamned person or fuck off.

    Fucking ridiculous cunt.

  • Invalid. Liberation Theology is a construct of the Jesuit, and is just overt Roman warfare given a different term. Should poverty and ignorance be the enemy, then the RCC and the Jesuit would elliminate Catechism and Dogma in favor of base awareness. There is too profitable a trade in ignorance for them to wish to change anything.

    The Nazi Pope is in full accord with the Jesuit.

    It is not about the laity, but (as always) about the Divine Rights crowd in the Executive and the Orders.

  • Many thanks for hoisting this vid -- one of BC's more thoughtful and relevant efforts. In the age of the minimalist dim bulb art still possesses the potential to stand a natural and necessary adversary to power, although, in America at least, the on-going erosion of the underpinnings of public education coupled with the increasingly irreversible ascendancy of celebrity worship -- amongst other viruses -- appears to be transforming this landscape . . .

  • Apologies, my response to Jono11 should have read ", whereas the Romans did so with all their philosophical enemies (and continue to do so) with glee."

  • test

  • take your guitar and go home get off the stage now right away this is a order i discovered a plot i figured it ask your friends to go home and pray now

  • Bruce Cockburn was and is a musician and political activist. He has been honoured by many for his political views and deeds. He has performed countless benefit concerts for numerous causes he believes strongly in, has visited and worked in many impoverished countries. To Jono11, i'd say that's pretty darn humanitarian. His music has inspired me and made me aware from a young age, to me that's something.

  • Ooooh, a concert. I'm sure millions of dead Africans are very grateful. But the dictators that ripped off the poorly-managed funds from the shows are probably even happier about it.

    Benefit shows are silliness, designed to make middle-class white people feel like all they have to do to make the world better is do what they were doing in the first place: listen to the music they like.

    Energy efficiency, piecemeal socialism, and benefit shows are meaningless. Real change isn't easy and simple.

  • A skilled poet and a profound guitarist with a mind that sees through all the bullshit. I absolutely love Cockburn -- man and music.

  • Bruce wrote this song years ago and looks like hes a bit of a prophet -One day you're going to rise from your habitual feast to find yourself staring down the throat of the beast they call the revolution. Its going to be a spiritual revolution and it will eradicate abject poverty and morally unjustifiable wealth. Brillant song ,what music should be about ,challenging and intelligent.

  • Challenging? What's challenging about it? It's completely straightforward.  It's clunky, hamfisted, and obvious. It's not poetry, it's journalism.

    It's an OK song, but what's so challenging about it?

  • Lyrics don't need metaphors and masturbatory subtleties to be potent - find journalism that can make someone feel as responsible for the news as this song does.

  • We can argue about what makes lyrics "good," but that's not what I brought up. I asked what's "challenging" about it? What's in any way a challenge about this song?

    Journalism that makes me feel as responsible for the news as this song? Well, this song doesn't mean much to me. Wish-fulfillment power fantasy from a complacent white liberal male who thinks singing about something absolves him of guilt. I'll take the journalism of Mother Jones over this song.

  • I guess I don't understand what you mean by "challenging" - I was thinking of how it challenges people to take a stance.

    As far as singing to relieve guilt... If Bruce's song can get a few people truly concerned about a real issue, and these people can then bring about change, then I think he's done his part. Some people best serve the cause as figureheads.

  • Show me who's been challenged by this song (or any song, really) to take a stand. People who work do it because of something deeper than a bad pop song.

    And no. He has NOT done his part by creating "awareness." That is NOT enough.

  • Actually, creating awareness is more than enough. Its certainly more than I've done (other than to remain aware).

  • More than enough? Show me what Cockburn has made better by playing music.

    He plays to people who already agree with them, so they can congratulate themselves and give themselves a pat on the back. "Good job, Joe Schuler. You listen to Bruce Cockburn and Paul McCartney. Good for you. You're doing your part, Joe Schuler. Ohp, look at the time. Gotta get to work. Lord knows Accounts Payable can't afford my dilly-dallying."

  • So you're not one who thinks the pen is mightier than the sword?

  • The pen was mightier than the sword when only a few people had pens. Now every bargain-basement Dylan-wannabe poet has one, and he has a guitar too, and he can sing songs with pandering, one-dimensional lyrics that slackjawed morons think is "deep" and "challenging."

    The pen IS mightier than the sword, in that the proliferation of pens has done what the proliferation of swords never could: erased the effectiveness of humanity.

  • These days, the 'pens' are like telephones: each time one is added to a network, the power of all the others increases. The "effectiveness of humanity" is actually enhanced. That we can discuss this here is better than fighting it out on the streets.

    As far as Dylan goes, remember that his songs (particularly "Blowing in the Wind") played a huge role in the mobilization of middle-class white youth to fight segregation in the US in the early 60's.

  • Oh, the effectiveness of humanity is ENHANCED? That must be why we've solved all the problems in the world! ...wait, we haven't solved ANY OF THEM. We've gotten MORE complacent than previous generations.

    Dylan's music was a soundtrack, not a catalyst. Seriously, someone really needs to explain to America that artists are performers and background noise, not social movements.

  • We've solved many of our problems over the past 100,000 years. Its just that we've created quite a few along the way.

    *****

    Re Dylan, that's like saying that Tom Paine had nothing to do with American's Independence movement, or that the Gospel writers had nothing to do with the spread of Christianity throughout Europe.

  • lol...Christianity didn't spread throughout Europe...Roman Catholicism did. Whenever 'christianity' spread, the RC's murdered it. Thats part of Bruces' point.

    Thats a huge part of the problem.

    Gandhi said it well, "If Christians actually practiced what the Christ taught, all India would be Christian."

  • The point is the pen, the voice that reaches millions and spurs, enrages or otherwise inspires change. Even if I stick with the Christianity theme, I can say that Martin Luther came to prominence utilizing the hot new communication/information technology of the day: Gutenburg's printing press.

    Today, we have TV evangelists that do pretty much the same thing with today's hot new technologies. But while none of those voices appeal to me, Bruce's does. This is a powerful theme throughout history.

  • Tarkus...the pen is not the point anymore. It was the point when people thought...rather than merely being a morass of unconnected sound bites that they neither critically ponder nor challenge.

    The communications have to be turned off at this juncture...to stop the conditioning and the fear mongering...and to give the people no recourse but to think and actually interact/act in concert with their neighbors.

    You will note that keeping the hamsters on the wheel gets them nowhere.

  • It's not a powerful theme, it's a powerful meme. That's all we as a culture seem to be able to handle now: pithy retorts, clever turns of phrase, favorite quotations. Does anybody have a favorite BOOK anymore? A favorite philosophy? A favorite well-reasoned argument? I'm sure it's fun to call the IMF dirty motherfuckers, but what's achieved? All Cockburn does is preach to the choir. He gives us nothing new, and he completely loses his ability to reach anyone that doesn't already agree with him.

  • Before the Reformation, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy WERE Christianity. One and the same. Sorry, you don't get to justify Christianity by divorcing it from past abuses. Christianity doesn't become an actual religion until the Pauline movement, which changes it from radical rabbinical Judaism to a separate faith. At that point, Christianity is born, and it is born AS Catholicism. You want to be a Christian without all the shitty parts? Then be a Jew.

  • Sorry, you are so wrong on so many points. Catholicism is not what the Christ taught.. Absent all rhetoric the proof lies in action.

    Thats why I've never divorced Catholicism from past abuses. You will note that the Protestants did not go to Rome and burn it to the ground (putting most to the sword), whereas the Romans did so (and continue to do so) with glee.

  • Jono11...just another RCC troll - well conditioned, largely ignorant, and quite racist.

  • Dylan is MUCH less catalytic to the 60s than Paine is to independence. Paine literally wrote documents that were used to foment rebellion in the colonies. Dylan wrote poetry and sang it. No one turned hippie because Bob Dylan wrote a song. They turned hippie because it was the cool thing to do.

    I think we also need to just remind ourselves that the 60s didn't really accomplish anything of substance. We're not really any more progressive now than we were in 1950. It's just more insidious now.

  • isn't that rue with almost everybody? Why single out Bruce? Preaching to the choir is not a new activity. But the truth is Bruce does use his pulpit to express views that should be heard, then discussed.

  • When he sings those views in a redneck bar in West Memphis, he can say he did something.

  • Will you then please get off his back? lol...peace!