Pregnant? Abortion? "Let Me Live" by Gordon Birchard

[Seymour13]

[Personal note: Anyway, I said my peace concerning this topic.

I'll do what I initially decided to do after my previous post and leave it at this.]

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Take care, and I don't come at you with hate or anything, I do care and I care for you too and I do love you, and btw Happy Valentines :D

[thugz4sale]

Awesome video and kids!

[Seymour13]

"That's fine...we lead people to Christ...we don't force people. Our children do it willingly"

Willingly?

Oh right, being raised (read: indoctrinated) by christian parents to believe christianity is the truth makes it THEIR choice... NOT!

There are no religious children, just children of religious parents that take what their parents tell them on authority as they are not yet able to defend against the bullshit which they are fed (due to a lack of knowledge/understanding).

[theist77]

@Seymour13 Hmmm...do you have children? Do/will you impose your morality on them or do you just let loose. Please stop the hypocrisy.

[Seymour13]

@theist77

What hypocricy?

I would do my best to pass on general stuff like 'don't steal' and 'be honest'.

I would endeavor to teach them the value of integrity, to reason for themselves and not be afraid to question.

But I would never spoonfeed them religious doctrine (just teach that they should strive to be good honest people) nor would I 'impose' my own morality on them outside of things along the lines of the aforementioned 'don't steal' and 'be honest'.

[OmgFactoryStudio]

I really feel sick watching these young kids being used by YOU to promote your religious ideas, I am not buying it...

[theist77]

@OmgFactoryStudio That's fine...we lead people to Christ...we don't force people. Our children do it willingly.

[Seymour13]

@OmgFactoryStudio

"I really feel sick watching these young kids being used by YOU to promote your religious ideas"

Same here, this shit really gets my blood boiling...

But this ain't nothing yet, it's safe to assume that this sicko also teaches them other apsects of his religion such as that we're all wretched sinful creatures that need to beg for forgiveness both for being how we were made (imperfect) and for the crimes of some non-existent ancestor; talk about child abuse, huh...

[theist77]

@Seymour13 You have no moral ground to stand on in an atheist world view...other than your subjective opinions based upon your genes and your past experience. In your view, free will is an illusion and responsibility is non-existent.

[Seymour13]

@theist77

(cont.)

Funny you should bring that up though.

Actually; your religion tries to take away responsibility by way of 'redemption through proxy' (seeing as morality is solely dependant upon personal accountability your religion effectively destroys the very basis of morality by means of a scapegoat followed by faith based salvation, both concept are utterly immoral) after setting an impossible standard none can supposedly live up to.

(cont.)

[Seymour13]

@theist77

(cont.)

If you think morality is dependant upon a deity, support scapegoating, support a standard that judges based on faith rather than character and fail to acknowledge that a standard of judgement which no imperfect being can live up to is immoral (which you do, on all 4 counts) then I'm afraid you've got no leg to stand on as far as a discussion on morality is concerned.

[Seymour13]

@theist77

PS: Note that I'm not even taking a possible (and likely) belief in- and acceptance of hell into account, nor do I have to go into the atrocities supposedly ordered and condoned by the god of the bible as both would just be icing on the cake at this point...

Have a nice life.

-Peace out.

[thugz4sale]

@theist77 Hopefully someday he "as well as others" will be able to see, but I was just as arrogant once upon a time, and all poor arguments he's proposed has been said in the past and properly refuted and dealt with, sad that people still use them without doing any proper research to better understand their arguments and how these are severely flawed. What he does bring to the table is hateful insulting comments and personal attacks directed to you and your family.

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

And I'm not insulting his family; my heart breaks for his family and what he's doing to his little girls, and as far as he himself is concerning I merely made a valid assessment of what kind of person he has shown himself to be (judging by the content of his vids).

If he's insulted by anything I've said then that's just an added bonus (as I was handling him with kid gloves), and I sincerely hope he's butthurt about it.

(cont.)

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

On the arrogance note; sod off.

You're the one who believes he is some skydaddy's favorite species for whom everything was created to rule over (god's own words from the bible; it was all made for us to govern).

Atleast I'm humble enough to admit that neither I nor my species as a whole is the center of the universe.

We're insignificant specs of carbon in an uncaring and indifferent universe, and if there is a god he's either incompetent, lazy or just a sadist.

(cont.)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Humble enough to attack God are you? The Creator of everything outside of our realm of existence from which is the foundation of all existences the first cause of all causes.... The "skydaddy" is that your false god zeus or someone to the like whom does live in the sky?

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

Also saw your comments on the abortion vid btw, nice to know you're anti-woman (shame you seem to think women should just be 'breeding cows') aswell as pro-'blood sacrifice' and pro-scapegoating.

Serious question; would you be for or against providing abortion to (for example) rape victims?, women having an egtopic pregnancy?, etc.

Anway, I've wasted too much time talking to you.

Have a nice life.

-Peace out.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 You're claiming sense I value life, I therefore must be anti-woman? That is the most insane statement I've ever seen anyone make trying to make an personal attack. And then going as far as suggesting the women who do love having babies and value life are "breeding cows".

And in your case you seem to care for the "the breeding cows you so call them" now that love children and want to make the right choice in matters of a terrible thing such as rape and a sick baby.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Rape, a terrible sin, which you seem to understand is bad in your statement.. which is unjustified in your world view I'm sure... because everything is meaningless. But to kill the child for the evil of the father, 2 evils make it right? The woman who has been through this pain and has to live with this, now has to live with murder as well... Have you met women who has eventually came around with this? They are utterly scarred for life with deep issues and pain.

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

'But to kill the child'

A splat of goo (early pregnancy) doesn't equal human life (it doesn't even have the brain or muscles needed to be concious, let alone actually feel anything), it's something that if left alone will develop into a human fetus over the many weeks to come.

Note that there are (and should be) very strict regulations regarding abortion (up until when it is allowed, for example), but to reject it outright... I don't even have words for that.

(cont.)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 You think the gift of life is a "splat of goo" and women who do have babies are "breeding cows" ?

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

You however seem to be in favor of (to continue on one of my examples) making a rape victim keep the child.

To see that man every time she looks into the child's eyes, a life-long reminder of that horrible event (there's quite alot of those women).

"and a sick baby"

Egtopic pregnancy is not a sick baby btw, it's the kind of pregnancy where the mother's death is basically guaranteed because the embryo grows in the tubes and not in the womb.

(cont.)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 I know what it means, I had limited space, So I put forward another circumstance people want to use to justify killing their baby... You did put etc... I added my own :)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 And, to live with the fact they killed their child you don't think that would deepen the wound? And if a mother cannot look into their childs eyes without compassion and love.. I believe she should adopt out the child to a loving family. 

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

But we don't even have to get into that, just because of the pain pregnancy and especially giving birth causes the woman (not to mention the parental burden) she has every right to choose not to go through with the pregnancy (up until a certain point in time, once we're dealing with an actual feeling fetus), the term for this is 'bodily rights'.

(cont.)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Physical pain of a pregnancy is temporary, and I wouldn't think a loving family that cares for their children calls their child a "burden"  Body rights is like tattoos or piercing etc, killing another life other than their own is another story.

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

"and I wouldn't think"

Duh, because in that case they actually want to start a family, hence 'loving family'.

Otherwise it's a 'loving couple that doesn't want children'.

The point of that particular issue was (as mentioned previously) unwanted pregnancy, barring even the 2 examples I gave just the pain is cause enough to refuse to go through with the pregnancy if the person in question doesn't WANT to.

The ppl in your example do (I assume) want to have the child.

/sigh.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Then they should murder their child because they don't want it? Wouldn't adoption be a better choice than killing a baby?

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

No offense btw, but you have previously said we're all sinful creatures that deserve eternal torture (this includes many of the greatest and kindest people to ever live, because they lacked faith), so EXCUSE ME for saying things that can be concieved as 'mildly offensive' if taken personally rather than as a blunt assessment of the person I'm addressing (they aren't even in the same league).

I'm not aiming to offend, but because of that I don't care if you are offended either tbh.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 To deny we sin, is denying who we are. Once you realize that, the blind fold will be taken off. And God is just and at the same time showed the greatest love conceivable to all man kind. And His will is not any should perish, It's our sin inside of us all that separate us. But He made a way, and yes Faith in Him is opening the door. He knocks on everyone's door, everyone has a conscious they should listen to for good reason.

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(resuming this on the other page as this topic would be off-topic here)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 He is the one that showed me to love instead of hate, and to cherish life. He gives you your hearts will, if you don't love what is good He respects you and loves you enough to let you choose, but in that, you don't choose God and you are in danger of being separated by the source of love and all things good...You're left with everything else.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 If they want the child or not, the baby is there... And I think there are so many better options than murder "adoption". I believe sin is the biggest culprit to why people make these choices and rarely due to ever any situational circumstance such as risk of someone dying due to having a baby, which is a whole other subject. There is a responsibility people don't want to take part in, and it's almost always for selfish reasons.

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

"And then going as far as suggesting the women who do love having babies and value life are "breeding cows""

Nope, the point was that if YOU think that abortion should NEVER be allowed, then in your mind a woman is just a 'breeding cow' because they have no say, this is very different from a woman that wants a large family (as it's her choice), see where I'm going with this?

(cont.)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 You did asserted in your previous statement that women are indeed "breeding cows". I don't see how calling women who want to have babies are "breeding cows" is relative to the topic of if murder is right or wrong. And I have seen exactly where you been headed from the start..

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

(cont.)

Seriously though, you did the same thing ('breeding cow' here, and concerning 'scapegoating' on the other vid) on the other page where you responded to me (perverting what I said, though I'll assume not intentionally) so I'll respond with the same line; 'Can you be serious for even a second?'.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Perverting what you said? I have been straightforward.. I assume you're upset that I've pointed out things and which you're acting out in ways. I have not been the one with personal attacks or attacks on families and one who's tried to "pervert" the belief of what it is we belief and many other things you continue to do. "Can you be serious for even a second" I have been serious, is this another attempt to try to undermine me?

[thugz4sale]

@thugz4sale correction "believe"

[Seymour13]

@thugz4sale

As for 'Perverting what you said? I have been straightforward.'

Wow... just wow.

I'm done here, you're either pulling my leg or you're an idiot...

"You did asserted"

No, get some damn glasses (you're starting to get on my nerves) and re-read what I said.

I stated that your outright refusal of abortion would reduce them to that, women are anything BUT breeding cows, and as such I respect their aforementioned 'bodily rights' to choose for themselves.

Ugh... obvious troll is obvious.

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 Wow you are angry and full of hate, calling me names again.... You're backtracking what you said previously. And I do apologize for typing too fast while multitasking and made a mistake like people do and I won't be the last,,, forgive me... I know it was wrong, so you pointed it out, but still you don't see how murder is wrong. Yes anything but breeding cows , but only if they opted to have babies and not support in abortion?

[thugz4sale]

@thugz4sale not I , it < I proved my point :)

[thugz4sale]

@Seymour13 But I sense you're just here to defend your own world views and your own beliefs, because of your lifestyle these things I say don't agree with you and your sin... I still love ya, and you take care as well.

[markdiehard]

Your girls are adorable you are very blessed brother, the little one was trying hard to keep up how beautiful. God bless you and your family in love Mark

[theist77]

@markdiehard Thanks, brother...

[ulthea]

I don't see this issue as black and white as many people do, but your girls are sure good little singers. Hope you allow them the freedom to discover their own personal beliefs though : )

[unkledanbot]

Appropriate sex education and birth control prevent abortion.

Punishing women for having sex is good for no one.

[skrinkaman]

Nice video!

[theist77]

@skrinkaman Glad you enjoyed it!! It's a great message.

[BasilofOZ]

@dprjones 1. I did not say this is a Carol. I sighted Carols as another example of Children's songs which have a powerful message, but we do not debate them after a performance.

2. His daughters were singing a song. Many songs have different messages. Yes, they probably agreed with the theme message and that is why they wanted to sing it.

3. I suggest that they understand what death is and killing at their age. I suggest they have the right to express their opinion as they live in the USA.

[BasilofOZ]

@dprjones (cont.) What child is NOT indoctrinated to their Parents views of the world? Obviously they want to help their father express the message on this Topic. I suppose you don't believe that School Teachers indoctrinate children? They certainly do. Parents actually move children to schools that share their Set of Moral Values.

[perromanchado]

wonderful



[LiberalElitistMedia]

Sad to see children brainwashed

[ZanimaDeepkoreX]

@LiberalElitistMedia Well you can say anybody who has a radically different opinion to you is "brainwashed". It works both ways.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@ZanimaDeepkoreX No it does not work both ways I am not the deity worshiper here/

[ZanimaDeepkoreX]

@LiberalElitistMedia See, by that very statement I KNOW you are confused about what constitutes "brainwashing".

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@ZanimaDeepkoreX I don't think so. I am reality bound to the degree that I can differentiate between what ideas phenomenal and which are objective or factual.?

[ZanimaDeepkoreX]

@LiberalElitistMedia That's what every brainwashed person says.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@ZanimaDeepkoreX It is impossible to reason with those in the so called "pro-life" movement as the vast majority are faith-tarded to begin with.

[ZanimaDeepkoreX]

@LiberalElitistMedia Will you stop using the word "faith-tarded"? It's really lame, and makes you look bigoted.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@ZanimaDeepkoreX What derogatory term that describes religious delusion would you prefer I use? 

[ZanimaDeepkoreX]

@LiberalElitistMedia How about no derogatory terms at all? It makes you look bigoted, which you didn't deny. (Funny that).

[theist77]

@LiberalElitistMedia No, you are a molecule worshiper...you give them more credit than that which is due.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@theist77 No I give all due respect to ungrounded faith based beliefs *none

[theist77]

@LiberalElitistMedia They are so much grounded that you are without excuse.

[gutbolt]

@LiberalElitistMedia Just cus someone was taught something you don't agree with doesn't mean they are brainwashed. If God is real then its good they were taught that, and you are the one who should be felt sorry for.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@gutbolt The whole god thing is taught by the indoctrination of young children brainwashed to believe that having faith without proof is a virtue . GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum stated that 67% of kids going into American Colleges with a faith based upbringing leave without it.- Knowledge is the enemy of faith . That is why the 'pro-life' movement is populated by faith-tards .

[BasilofOZ]

@LiberalElitistMedia You are illogical. Your own statistics demonstrate that 67% of kids were NOT brainwashed in their upbringing as it clearly did not work. You are a fool if you think that children don't constantly re-examine their faith throughout their life. Religious people constantly have their faith tested. You are also highly offensive to use the term: Faith-tards! I hope someone pushes the flush button to wash you away!

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@BasilofOZ I am not terribly concerned by the reverse 'logic' of deity worshipers/ Although I agree that, lowering those who put their trust, their meaning for living, their purpose on childhood fairy tales they never had the sense to question, faith-tards , at least I am honest.

[gutbolt]

@LiberalElitistMedia You couldn't be more wrong sir. Gaining knowledge in no way detertiorates a persons faith. It's being surrounded by people with a bitter additude toward theism like yourself, that acts as a form of indoctrination via peer preassure. Sadly your childish namecalling actually does have an effect on others. And its a much more low and detestable way to bring someone to your point of view.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@gutbolt How common is it now a days, for you to be ridiculed for the ungrounded faith based beliefs you have been indoctrinated to believe, puts you on the moral high ground?

[gutbolt]

@LiberalElitistMedia I don't understand what you are asking. can you rephrase please?

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@gutbolt Are you of the opinion that your faith based beliefs because they are faith based beliefs ought to be exempt from criticism?

[gutbolt]

@LiberalElitistMedia Of course not.

[gutbolt]

@LiberalElitistMedia But just calling people brainwashed and faith-tard isn't real criticism. It's a bullying tactic. And it shows more about you then it does about the people you are saying it to.

[LiberalElitistMedia]

@gutbolt I gave up on attempting to reason with anti-abortion /faith-tards long ago. Maybe by hitting people over the head (figuratively speaking) maybe they might listen to the next person who tells them they are wrong?

[ChRoPi21]

Very nice song. I liked the little bits of harmony they did too. :) I do hope you also do a video talking about the issue of abortion :)

[MoguMoguMagic]

YOUR ALL TOOOOOO CUTE!!!!! GOD BLESS YOU! I LOVE THE SMALLEST ESPECIALLY... :) KEEP IT UP AND GOOD WORK

[jamlimited3]

Cute kids!

[BasilofOZ]

Lovely singing and girls. Their Parents are very lucky. I don't think an emotional song will change a girl's plans on abortion though. It might make her reconsider and think more. Your videos seem to always attract the a**holes such as dprjones. This video was obviously not intended as a platform for a serious discussion. Next XMas your daughters should sing some Carols on You Tube.

[dprjones]

@BasilofOZ

"Your videos seem to always attract the a**holes such as dprjones. This video was obviously not intended as a platform for a serious discussion."

From the description of this video:

"Our four girls sharing a powerful message in song...pay close attention."

Which is it? A "powerful message"? Or not intended for "serious discussion"? I don't see how you can have it both ways.

As I said in my previous post (now removed) - "pathetic".

[BasilofOZ]

@dprjones I understand your point here. Theist has stated he will present a serious Video for debate later with his point of view. Any Christmas Carol has a powerful message. Do you expect to debate them too if children post a video singing them? I think Theist was just giving his daughters the opportunity to sing in a video on You Tube. Children their age do have an opinion nowadays. Wait for Theist's serious Video.

[dprjones]

@BasilofOZ

Thank you.

1. I look forward to his video.

2. I do not recognise this as a "carol".

3. I do not accept that he (theist) was "just giving his daughter the opportunity ..."

4. "Children their age do have an opinion nowadays" - are you really suggesting that the views of a young child who probably can't explain what an abortion is, let alone spell the word, should be taken seriously?

This is grotesque exploitation of indocrinated children.

[UrielOmega]

Cute kids..... they most get that from there mother,hehe. I'm just making a joke. You guys seem to have done a good job raising them, and that is one of the best things people can do in this world(raising kids well). God bless

[PhilosAphylas]

That was cool :-)