This is just perfect. The bible, religion, the pointlessness of the so called resurrection. It's all there. How anyone can still believe after being exposed to this, well it shows religion up for the mental disease it really is.
@Hermoor Yes, and guess what? Josif Stalin destroyed christianity in Communist russia...I hope you can also make a cogent argument about what happened durign that horrible regime, without religion...L0L
@gnossticc He made himself a religious leader, instead of worshipping Jesus they worshipped him. He controlled religion in order to control the people. Very religious society...there is no society on earth that has turned into a nazi or stalin like society, that has been secular. Only the religious go to war and fight among eachother...right now it's religious USA and religious middle east. You don't see atheistic sweden going to war do you? We are more at peace than you christians...idiots.
@Hermoor No, he persecuted religion and if that is your argument that proves that leaders put themselves in such position for sheep to adore them. Welcome to the real world, and forgive hitchens for decieving you about human nature.
About No society being non-religion never turning into a nazi or communist regime, bravo you make half-ass assertions. That doesn't prove my point: Stalinist russia was a no-religion state and only recently the church there began to emerge again.
@Hermoor Again: Stalinist russia was a NO-religion regime, prove otherwise and you win the argument something that you cannot prove. Now, what is your magic formula to turn this world into a NO-religous world? The only way is to try Stalinist formula again and then say that the leaders there were begotten by religion and turned into Gods...Hmmm stop talking from yous smelly ass...
@gnossticc Maybe you need to read history, Stalin russia was a case of leader worship. He was seen as a god by the people, as a saint within their christian faith. This has happened before throughout history, in mongolia Genghis Khan was a god. Today in north korea kim jung something is said to have been born by a virgin...he is a god. This is a sort of religion, absolutely not atheistic or secular. Only religious people are as dumb as those regimes.
@Hermoor Sir, you are the one who needs to interpret correctly what religion on NON-religion is: Stalin persecuted religion and forced it underground. Until recently it emerged again. Any leader, any guide in whatever field may be regarded as a god, as you do with Hitchens. he is you "spiritual" guide.
It doesnt't matter if you want to conform your beliefs with reality: Stalin persecuted the very thing that Hitchens hates, religion and it worked out wonderfully, right?
@gnossticc Stalin did nothing against religion, he only took control of the superstitious minds of the masses and used christianity to gain control over the people. And hitchens my spiritual guide, hahaha there are many more intelligent people than hitchens. My "spiritual" guide would probably either be fictional people or possibly the dalai lama. Not that I believe in buddhism or even practise it, but the dalai lama sais a lot of wise things. Much wiser than anything jesus said.
@gnossticc Communism and atheism aren't synonyms of eachother. You should look up the definitions, because you obviously have no idea what they mean. Religion isn't believing in a man in the sky dumb fuck. While you are at it look up the definition of religion idiot...you don't even know the defenitions of the words you try to define. Confused idiot...
@gnossticc If he said that give me video link and at what minute second he said it. Also I'm pretty sure he hasn't said anything about stalin doing the things he did because he was an atheist. Russia was very religiuos...and the leader...stalin became a saint...within christianity. Stalin was atheist...but he didn't do anything in the name of atheism. Communist russia...was religious...stupid...ignorant. There is a difference between an entire country and one person.
@Hermoor Sir, again: Stalin persecuted and purged his OWN people! Do you know that? He also has a KGB...Do you know what that was? 25,000,000 aproximmately of his own people murdered. Sent to the Gulag and Siberia, his own people to die in forced labors by their own Saint! I know, he is indeed regarded as saint but that doesn't change the fact that STALIN PERSECUTED CHRISTIANISM AND UNTIL RECENTLY SURFACED AGAIN! That's the argument!
@gnossticc He didn't persecute christianity, he took control of it. He used christianity to commit his evil actions, the only reason he could take control of the people is because they believed him to be a godlike being. And the only reason they believed that was because of christianity...which stalin took control of. If you want to know a society without religion look at scandinavia...we haven't been at war for 200 years. Atheism has been more peaceful than christianity by far.
@Hermoor My friend, please stop playing the fool. Stalin destroyed the church in Russia, if you insist in thi, you are indeed the dumbest fool on earth: "Hitchens: In the past it was communist ASTHEISM OUR ENEMY..."
You need a serious education...Are you american by the way?
All the people smiling are Christians who think he stupid because he doesn't believe in talking snakes and a 6,000 year old earth. The two girls at 2:42 might be listening and that's about it.
@CambridgeHeights Do you have evidence of the god you speak of? Or evidence of evisceration by His Hand? Hitch eviscerates all religions equally, not just xianity, so why aren't you baseless asserting that it was Allah that made the payback?
@CambridgeHeights Cancer is evidence of cancer, nothing more. Can you provide evidence of a connection to god? So you are saying that the god of islam and xianity is the same?
@Lawlessuk The only thing that's sick is the feeling you will have in your stomach when you realize you will spend an eternity in hell. And yes, even babies must pay for the Original Sin.
@CambridgeHeights I used to be like you actually. I believed what I'd been told. Then I started to wonder. Then I started to learn and understand a whole lot more about religion.
Now I'm an atheist. The concept of eternal guilt/suffering/heaven is as likely as me being able to lay a golden egg.
So I suggest you find something that makes you happier and more accepting of life and the people around you, because quite frankly, you sound miserable.
@CambridgeHeights If you actually believe that you also MUST say that your god is an unimaginary evil one that has serios anger problems. And if you do not say so you at least must claim that you are a sick and evil unmoral being that wishes this to be true. Done.
@CambridgeHeights Wow, than mankind got a pretty different understanding of whats moral if even kids have to pay for that one man ate an apple... Damn, sounds like an asshole to me your god... And there's it, if that is the morality of your god, and mankind got a different understanding of whats moral, it can't be from your god. End of story -.-
@kick2004 Man is sinner, so it's no surprise to me that you and many others find the righteous lord to be evil. You will pay for that thought in due time.
@CambridgeHeights ^^ Ok, you are free to explain to me how I "sinned", if your god has created me as I am?! I can't belief it, so, how have I sinned? My sin is that I ask questions? And I'm gonna pay for that? WOW, sounds like a very friendly god -.- More like a Dictator if you ask me! Have you never wondered why your religion/god has such a problem with asking questions? And with science? Think about that and ask yourself if this sounds godlike!
@kick2004 God gave you free will so that you can choose to sin and yes you will pay for them. What makes you think that God should be "friendly"? You don't questions Him, just obey or pay the price with eternal torture.
@CambridgeHeights So you admit that god is not a good god? You know, I usually don't obey assholes! I don't have to question him. As long as there isn't a single piece of evidence for him there simply is nothing to question. And in addition, "so that you can choose to sin and yes you will pay for them", which is like... Haha, lets see if they obey me, if not, lets fuck them for eternity! Dude, your god has some issues! Just sayin ^^
@CambridgeHeights Morality doesn't come from God. Christians say morality is absolute and never changing yet differences in morals beliefs has split Christianity into thousands of different groups.
You think you have the same moral beliefs as Christians 2,000 years ago? Don't kid yourself.
Also how did the Chinese develop morals and civilization without your God?
@Cenamark2 The Bible hasn't changed, therefore morals haven't changed. If the Chinese had some morality, it was because they coincidentally were following parts of what the Bible said.
@CambridgeHeights The way people interpret the Bible continues to change. That's why we have thousands of different groups of Christians. Also non-Christians don't get their morals from coincidentally doing what the Bible says. That's ludicrous. Morality is just natural to humans.
The Bible is a poor place to get your morals. If we really did get our morals from the Buy Bull there would be a lot more stoning going on.
@CambridgeHeights You are denying that thousands of cultures had moral standards in place long before any of them read the bible. What about animals that show compassion and empathy for one another? Why do they care about each other? It's because it's in their genes.......and it's in our genes too.
@CambridgeHeights It's because identical twins don't experience every situation and every circumstance identically at exactly the same time, if at all. And even minutely differing conditions during seemingly similar interactions can cause immensely differing results. And once one twin experiences one thing differently for the very first time(likely during birth or shortly after) they FOREVER have continually different, even radically different decision making and reactionary concepts.
@Nemomain Christopher Hitchens along with Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins are FOOLS
AND COWARDS! LOL! >;-) Both Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins AND Hitchens manipulate and distort Religion to attack and discredit Theists, period! Religion AND the Nature of GOD are unique...Religion is a Human Institution while the Nature of GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING to say the very least, my child! Additionally, Both won't debate World Renowned Theists...LOL! READ your Bible AND Start getting right with GOD! ;-)
@advantage73 They arn't cowards, theres no point in trying to debate those who are unwilling to listen to evidence, rather then simple speculation, and finally, you should actually read the bible for what its worth. Heres some examples of texts, since all christian's do is quote the nice parts.
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness -- Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord -- Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. What should I do?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@Nemomain Christopher Hitchens along with Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins are FOOLS
AND COWARDS! LOL! >;-) Both Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins AND Hitchens manipulate and distort Religion to attack and discredit Theists, period! Religion AND the Nature of GOD are unique...Religion is a Human Institution while the Nature of GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING to say the very least, my child! Additionally, Both won't debate World Renowned Theists...LOL! READ your Bible AND Start getting right with GOD! ;-)
@advantage73 hey obviously you love god a lot... so why dont you sacrifice yourself in an act of martyrdom by slitting both wrists and walking around in a park with a bunch of signs untill you bleed to death?
@73geneva - That an empty tomb means a dead man rose. That political unrest with Roman authorities in turbulent times means a man claimed to be god rather than the real problem of sedition at hand. The Jews had enough issues with Imperial rule & the safety of their community. History proved they had good reason. Adding supernatural causation is a stretch. To: Jews I wish a Happy Rosh Hashanah. To anyone following this banter - thanks for reading. To 73geneva - thanks for your time. All the best.
@73geneva - No where in the history of the world has it been recorded that a bunch of dead people came back. This is not "extraordinary" - it doesn't occur in a sane world. What is more realistic: That Herod sought to please the Jews or the very real historical fact the growing anger against Jewish suppression led to a full revolt in 66 CE. & the destruction of the temple - a catastrophy for the Jews. The Jews were not pleased with Jesus for political reasons - a real threat to them re: Romans.
@73geneva - Luke 23: 2 says "And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” This was a direct political challenge to the authorities who were exploiting the Jews financially. No religious entity would be concerned about taxes. Jesus presented an political/economic challenge to Roman order. The Jews had not authority to execute - the Romans did so for sedition.
@Rose999123 You rightly answered the question urself. You're conversant with the Bible. Look at the whole scenario again. Taxes and so on came up when they brought Jesus before Pilate; cos, I repeat, that only would interest him, considering his position as governor. But these same folks had already decided Jesus must die because He claimed to be the Son of God; that was their gross. Caiaphas did not rent His garments and call for Jesus' death because of taxes; it was because He claimed deity.
@73geneva - Jesus was causing public problems at Passover. The Romans were sensitive to disturbances as multitudes came to Jerusalem at this time. Jews were forced to buy sacrificial animals & tax proceeds were given to Romans. Jesus protested this. He turned the money changers tables over as Jews were forced to buy a certain currency at the temple (more revenue for Romans). His statements were against the authorities and led to his arrest. To avoid more provocation, he was arrested & sentenced.
@Rose999123 The fact of the matter which you are either unaware of or don't want to acknowledge is this: There was no way the Romans could have arrested and killed Jesus without His people being part of it. The Jewish leaders initiated the move, arrested Him and found Him guilty of death in their own court. For them it was because He claimed to be the Son of God; that was their gross. But since they had no power to execute anyone they handed Him to the governor and here, the story changed...cont
@Rose999123 ...It was no longer that He claimed to be the Son of God; it was now He claimed to be the King of the Jews. The first was spiritual, this time political, cos that would interest Pilate . It was such a solid game plan that they told Pilate if he freed Jesus then he was not a friend of the emperor. For Pilate, Jesus must have been nothing but a renegade, nondescript Jew, envied by His people. But then, he couldn't care less; he'd earlier slaughtered many others b4, so he did the job.
@73geneva - Cont'd: The Jews don't continue to hate Jesus. Judaism is far more just as it states that righteous gentiles will earn god's favor without belief in Judaism - unlike Christianity that claims damnation for the righteous if they do not accept Christ. The Jews at the time of Jesus had very real problems with the Romans. They had to manage their own community or face consequences. They had no power to "end" Christianity. The Destruction of the Temple in 70 CE is proof of how bad it was.
@geneva - Not producing a body does not automatically mean a dead person rose. How does one become the other? The Jews at the time of Jesus were under Roman domination. The only control they had was over the Sanhedrin. Any disruption from fellow Jews (e.g Jesus) meant trouble from Roman authorities. Jews were subject to heavy taxes which the Romans collected from them, especially during high holidays. Jesus caused disturbances during Passover. This caused both economic & legal tensions (cont'd).
@Rose999123 You said not producing a body does not mean a dead person rose. Too bad, the case of this 'dead person' was unique cos He said repeatedly that He'd die and rise again. In fact, He used their most sacred temple as a symbol of what He'd do when He said, "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I'll make it rise." Even in death He was such a nightmare to the powers that be that His own people persuaded the governor to guard the tomb. About taxes, economic and legal tension. I don't have..cont
@73geneva - I would still like to know why there are no Non-Christian accounts of Matthew 27: 53 claiming many dead people rose up from their graves and walked through Jerusalem. That many people saw them. This event should have been recorded "everywhere" in the known world - but it is recorded "NOwhere" except in the NT. Why - because it did not happen. The NT is making claims of non-events.
@Rose999123 an idea of what you mean by linking this up with Jesus' death. Those were in place when the Jews handed Jesus to the governor and ensured He got the death sentence, even when the governor wanted to free Him. They even prounced a curse on themselves that His blood be upon them and their descendants. What in the world has tax and legal tensions got to do with an empty tomb. You know, I'm even surprise you agree that Jesus even died in the first place.
@Rose999123 Recorded everywhere; What do you mean by 'everywhere'? Extraordinary events happen around the world everyday that you don't hear about. And how in the world could you say the Jews had no power to end Christianity? They were able to convince a ruthless leader like Pilate to execute Jesus, the very founder of Christianity, even when he wanted to set Him free. What else couldn't they do? They tried to liquidate the early church and boy, it wasn't just through debates like Hitchens...
@73geneva - Your beliefs are based on NT accounts only. There are no NON-Christian accounts that confirm Jesus rose from the dead. Again, you cite the source to confirm the source. That is not evidence. It's similar to Ahmadinejad's followers saying there was no holocaust - because he said so, or wrote so & they believe so. An empty tomb does not equate to a dead person rising. Osiris also died & rose from the dead 3 days later. This is recorded, is it true? Millions of people believed this.
@Rose999123 Ma'am, as I said earlier, Jesus was a Jew. Jews are still around today. Why didn't their ancestors produce the body of the man whom they feared so much that they had to guard His tomb? This is not about the Bible. The Jews hated and still hates Jesus more than anyone else, cos they believe He was a deceiver. If anyone would have wanted to end Christianity they were the ones and Christianity hinges on Jesus' resurrection. If they'd produced the body there won't be any arguement here.
@Rose999123 They went about it brazenly by killing the Christians. Stephen was killed, under the supervision of Saul, who later became Paul. James, the brother of John was killed and when Herod saw it pleased the Jews, he arrested Peter, intending to kill him as well. What are you talking about? Most of them had to literally flee for their lives. It was on his way to arrest them that Saul met Jesus Himself and the story changed.
@73geneva - Ironically, you and others who denounce the Council of Nicea fail to realize that the very New Testament bible which you place faith in, from where you get your sources to confirm what you believe - were all put together by the Council of Nicea. The books of the NT were compiled by them, the theology set by them, the various books selected by them. They were split on the divinity of Jesus as many claimed he was not divine. They chose the divinity route discarding other views.
@Rose999123 I read Chine62's mails to you and he did a good job, so there's no need going through it all over again. You said there is no evidence that Jesus rose. How funny. A man is dead; b4 He died He said He'd rise again 3 days later. Three days later the tomb was empty! Jesus was a Jew. The Jewish nation is still there today. All they'd have done to abrogate and silence Christianity for once was simply produce the body: that's all. Anyway, all the best in your pursuits.
@73geneva - A great book is "Christianity, The First Three Thousand Years" (yes, 3,000 years) by awarding-winning historian Diamaid MacCulloch. Brilliantly researched and well written. He writes about how the previous 1,000 years "before" Jesus shaped Christianity. Then 2,000 years of Christian history after. Great sections on Hellenic and pagan influences and the development of Jesus as divine. Try objectivity away from the supernatural.
@73geneva - Why not reverse the question & ask - who gained from the doctrine that Jesus was divine & resurrected? Read the history of how the early emperors sought to consolidate various pagan beliefs under one umbrella & controlled them through the new religion - Christianity (a near duplicate of their existing beliefs including holidays). Mithraism was a competitor & was absorbed. Read historic non-Christain sources about that struggle and how Christianity took shape. They finalized the NT.
@73geneva - Where is the evidence that Jesus resurrected? Quoting the bible here to justify it is not evidence. A claimed empty tomb is not evidence, it's just empty. The holocaust has millions of eyewitnesses. Historical, photographic & forensic evidence. Meticulous documents with precise authors. Why are there no historical accounts of all the dead saints (in Matthew) who walked in ancient Jerusalem then? NO non-Christian accounts of anyone seeing them. It boils down to evidence, not belief.
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@73geneva - No need for you to add that surely "Satan" has infiltrated every other belief system on earth (especially the Catholic Church as you stated). No doubt all of this corruption has occured - with the exception of Evangelism. Every one else is wrong. History is wrong, cultural influences on beliefs are wrong. Documentary (texts) developments are wrong. Major socio-political decisions discarded. Heaven, hell, ghosts, dead walking are all deemed facts. Condemnation of fellow man prevails.
@73geneva - Christianity claims a person who has lived a righteous life, has helped others, provides food to the hungry & shelter to the poor etc is barred from "heaven" if s/he does not believe in Jesus. In other words, such a person is damned. Jesus rose from the dead - is part of a belief system and NOT fact. Sin, saviors, blood, god becoming his own son, then dead man becoming a ghost, then fusing with god. Then more dead walking in Jerusalem. Visions from sky, god dictating a letter. Wow.
@Rose999123 Jesus' resurrection, as you said is not a fact. Well, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran, said the holocaust never happened; he said it was a publicity stunt initiated by the Jews to attract undue sympathy. So, we see people are free to believe and reject whatever they deem fit; it all boils down to that.
@73geneva - re: John being on Patmos - Jesus appears to him (after 60 years) to DICTATE A LETTER! Is it signed "god"? We have many of Jesus' own family members who apparently do not believe what is claimed in the Nicean code. But instead Christians give weight to doctrine formulated in the 4th century over people closest to Jesus. Most bible scholars will admit that the "eyewitness" accounts are written by several, unknown authors. This is historical fact, not faith-fiction.
@Rose999123 Like Chine62 told you, the Nicean Council is the worst thing that ever happened to true Christianity, cos that was when Satan infiltrated the Church through Catholicism. And boy, it never had anything to do with scriptures. The life of Jesus (gospel) was already in circulation before this NIcean Council. John, in the gospel that bears his name, emphatically said that Jesus did many other things that were not recorded; even a child knows it's true: His life between 12-30 was not..cont
@Rose999123 I told you also that right there in the Bible, Jesus' own family members rejected Him as deity; scripture says so clearly; one does not need extra sources. In fact, the animosity against Him started right from when He preached His first message, amongst His own people: they wanted to throw Him off a cliff. Luke 4:16-29. But His victory over death was the clinch to His claim as the messiah; the Son of the living God. One of His half brothers, James, subsequently became one of the...
@73geneva - What also is irrelevant to Christians are all the other gospels written by Jesus' contemporaries which state that he was not divine, nor do they mention his atonement. They thought of him as a mortal man, a prophet. These writings were deemed heretical by the Council of Nicea in 325 CE - through which we now have their select and biased version of the NT. All the other accounts were banned. Had they chosen otherwise, your beliefs would be altered. Blind faith without understanding.
@Rose999123 ...Pillars of the early church. In fact he was one of those Paul met. He also wrote the Book of James. Jude too. The whole point of this is that Jesus' resurrection is the proof of His deity; that was all. His own disciples had doubts about Him. But after He rose, everything changed completely. Jesus, like all men, certainly used the restroom, ate, slept, etc; no one disputes that. But then His victory over death is the clinch that He is the saviour of the world; deity. That's all.
@72geneva - For the sake of clarity, "I" didn't say due to Adam's sins all men are sinners. I said Paul (who wrote a good deal of the NT) said it. I am quoting the source as many Christians do to justify their dogmas. I don't believe it. Without this fall of man, no need for Jesus' atonement & redeemer. Resurrection myths dominate pagan cultures. So many part god-part men who sacrificed themselves as atonement. Paul borrowed heavily from this for ease of spreading his new theology to pagans.
@Rose999123 Like what someone said here, the angst against Paul is ludicrous. John, who lived with Jesus for 3 years, saw part of His deity at the transfiguration and His full deity at Patmos, emphatically said the remission of sins is only possible through Jesus. Peter, another eyewitness to Jesus' majesty, also said the same thing. About whether you believe Christianity or not is irrelevant. Even Jesus' half brothers did not believe in HIm, neither did (do) the Jews, His own people so its ok
@73geneva - Firstly, I have no connection to a mythical Adam who did anything (good or bad). Sin is a concept vs what is moral, ethical etc. What is a "sin" in one culture is acceptable in another. It is relative. Whether I or anyone else commits any wrong doing has nothing to do with Jesus. Christianity claims even the best person canNOT be redeemed if s/he doe NOT accept Christ! It's not about me - it's about a warped concept based in doctrine, which claims to be "the" only salvation. Not OK.
@73geneva - Paul authored in NT that man inherited sin from Adam. Due to this, man canNOT serve as his own redeemer; good works are to NO avail, for even these canNOT satisfy the justice of god (Gal 2: 16). Jesus took on the punishment via his resurrection. This sin is "inherited" without our personal fault. Only belief in a gruesome death will "save" us from this? So doing good without this belief will not "save" us? As you stated below: "it's tyranny and the height of wickedness." I agree.
@73geneva - Paul authored in NT that man inherited sin from Adam. Due to this, man canNOT serve as his own redeemer; good works are to NO avail, for even these canNOT satisfy the justice of god (Gal 2: 16). Jesus took on the punishment via his resurrection. This sin is "inherited" without our personal fault. Only belief in a gruesome death will "save" us from this? So doing good without this belief will not "save" us? As you stated below: "it's tyranny and the height of wickedness." I agree.
@Rose999123 ..the consequence followed which is death. The effect of sin is present within your own life and at mos,t sixty yrs from now you and I will be dead: that is the price of sin. It's b4 you every day. But someone was responsible for Adam's fall and God's gross is against him and not His own creation. God sent Jesus to pay for the sins of all men which is death. But then, the power of sin could not hold Him, cos He had no sin and 3 days later He rose again, thus putting the devil..contd
@Rose999123 ..the consequence followed which is death. The effect of sin is present within your own life and at mos,t sixty yrs from now you and I will be dead: that is the price of sin. It's b4 you every day. But someone was responsible for Adam's fall and God's gross is against him and not His own creation. God sent Jesus to pay for the sins of all men which is death. But then, the power of sin could not hold Him, cos He had no sin and 3 days later He rose again, thus putting the devil..contd
@Rose999123 ..to shame and at the same time earn victory for all who believe He has paid the price for their sins. That's why Jesus said He that believes in me but he were dead yet shall he live. Again, God's gross is not against His creation, it's against the one who made them fall. However, your likes assume this to be a waste of time and thereby want to do it your way. Jesus is the only hope for you, lady and without Him all men are lost. God loves you and sent Jesus to pay your debt.
@73geneva - The Scriptures state repeatedly of sin & death entering the world through “one man’s transgression”. Due to Adam’s sin, all men are sinners. Problem with Penal Substitution is it presents a god who is very concerned with retribution for sin from his wrath against sinners. This does not fit with the words/attitude of Jesus. God required an atoning sacrifice for this. Jesus' bloody death is linked to the original Fall (Adam & Eve). Without this - there is NO basis for Christianity.
@Rose999123 Scripture says through one man's transgression sin entered the world. You said due to Adam's sin all men are sinners. You answered the whole thing. The child of a lion is a lion cub; just as a baby eagle is an eaglet, with all the intrinsic tendencies of their parents. Adam's influence on you gives you the inherent tendency to sin. Now tell me, why do you commit sin? Certainly you can't say since your birth till now you've not done something bad; even if you say so I won't believe.
@Rose999123 The question now is why can't even the most righteous of men be that way at every single point in their lives? Impeccably righteous. Why would even the best of men do something bad occasionally. This is not about Adam anymore; it's you. So-called religious people attribute the death of Jesus to be a waste of time and I'm surprised you agreed He even died in the first place. They want to do it themselves. Adam had no reason to sin; He was created perfect. And when He did sin...cont
@73geneva - You're missing the point. The concept of Jesus dying for the sins of mankind originated in the fall of man (Adam & Eve). "Without" this original sin, there is NO need for Jesus to be sent as a saviour. One is linked directly to the other. Christians clearly believe that Jesus' death was a "ransom" by which humanity was offered freedom from the sin acquired at the Fall. Read Romans 5: 12-19 & 1 Cor 15: 21-22. There can be no idealized belief in Jesus & his atonement without the Fall.
Cont'd: A further "NO" that Adam & Eve caused this "Fall" with their wrong-doings. To accept Jesus as the savior, this Fall must be accepted to trigger this chain reaction of events. No - to Romans 5: 12-19. No - to Jesus as a "ransom". No - to anyone who judges others who don't believe in all of this as lacking or hateful. No - to destroying minds by injecting myths as facts and the further proselytizing of it as a duty, while not conceding that all of this is quite incredible to sane minds.
@Rose999123 Also, no one holds you responsible for what Adam and Eve did; you're responsible for your own life and that is all that matters. No where did the Bible say anyone will be punished for what Adam and Eve did. If it were so, then it's tyranny and the height of wickedness.
A more positive view of creation is to assume that man (with all of our flaws) is NOT born in a state of sin. We accept mankind commits aggression & evil against others. We also accept there is much good in people. There is NO original "Fall of Man" (a false stain on all). So NO need for a blood sacrifice from Jesus to reverse this. What creator would condemn innocent children with this inherent defect? NO original sin, NO god-incarnate atoning for mankind. NO religious superiority. All myths.
@73geneva - It's unfortunate that when people choose not to "believe" in Jesus it is equated with "hate". The ultimate form of hate occured when god deemed man to be born in a state of eternal sin (according to Christianity). This "sin" is the reason why god had to send his "son" to die a torturous death to "save" us. This entire proposition rests on this ONE basis. Those who choose not to accept this are "hateful"?! Don't waste your prayers on us. Pray for the gift of reason for yourselves.
@73geneva - It's unfortunate that when people choose not to "believe" in Jesus it is equated with "hate". The ultimate form of hate occured when god deemed man to be born in a state of eternal sin (according to Christianity). This "sin" is the reason why god had to send his "son" to die a torturous death to "save" us. This entire proposition rests on this ONE basis. Those who choose not to accept this are "hateful"?! Don't waste your prayers on us. Pray for the gift of reason for yourselves.
Whoever is on this page, pls hear me. It is appointed unto men once to die and after this comes judgment. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. There is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, who died for our sins and rose again. Don't let Satan deceive you, pls. Come to Jesus today; He shall forgive all your iniquities: hard drugs, immoral sex, theft, etc. Come to Him now; He is mighty to save.
I have to wonder sometimes, If god "does" exist, why then would he create a world where if we stop breathing for a few minutes, we will suffocate. Why if we refuse to kill another organism and consume its flesh, we will starve. Why are there many more ways to suffer than to be happy? If this universe was created by a deity, it obviously could have been created "any" way the deity saw fit. So why like this? I am fairly confident that I could have made a better universe.
@Chine62 - Again you are free to believe what you want - just as I am. It is impossible for many of us to accept supernatural events as fact. To us the dead don't rise, god does not have a child through a virgin, god-incarnate, a blood sacrifice is required. Having faith does not rest on whether a person is "learned" or not - intellectual ability is separate from belief. Belief is not based on empirical proof, it's internal. Historical influences and developments can be traced however.
@Chine62 - I read what you wrote: "Not even Muslims, who are more devoted are willing to die because they believe Muhammed was deity; they wont even dream of it." - not quite clear on syntax.
@Rose999123 What I simply mean is that some of them are willing to kill or die not because they think Muhammed is divine. Christians, on the other hand, are willing to die because of their belief that Jesus is the Son of God; deity. I didn't just exclude it to Muslims alone; I meant other religions as well.
@Chine62 - Muslims do NOT believe Muhammand was a deity. They state clearly that he was a man with no divine attributes. Islam is strictly monotheistic just as Judaism. Muslims worship the god of Abraham. You don't seem to know basic beliefs of other religions. Even if Christians are willing to die for their faith - what exactly does that prove? Too bad god demands so much death from mankind. Sounds sadistic to kill his own "son" in such a gruesome manner. Blood and death for the sake of god.
@Rose999123 I said Muslims never claim that Muhammed is deity, but Christians claim Jesus is and that is what propells them; I don't know what you're talking about. You seem to either misunderstand me or ...I don't know. Please read my mails carefully before saying things I never said.
@Chine62 - You say true Christians are willing to die because they believe their savior is god. That's fine - for them. It doesn't mean it's the truth, only that they believe this specific thing. The same can be said for any religion that promotes martyrdom. Apparently a horrible end-times war is to occur per NT. Of all of creation, only good Christians will go to heaven. The rest of us will meet an awful doom. That's great. I suppose my grave won't be flying open at that time - I don't qualify.
@Chine62 - You say true Christians are willing to die because they believe their savior is god. That's fine - for them. It doesn't mean it's the truth, only that they believe this specific thing. The same can be said for any religion that promotes martyrdom. Apparently a horrible end-times war is to occur per NT. Of all of creation, only good Christians will go to heaven. The rest of us will meet an awful doom. That's great. I suppose my grave won't be flying open at that time - I don't qualify.
@Chine62 - With all due respect, your statement that "someone is a liar because they distort the truth in order to validate their claim is not wrong in any way" - is difficult. I will not call anyone a liar - however many religious beliefs appear to be distortions of the truth. Again, what is truth to you is a gross distortion to me and others. There are many "truths" in history that cannot be denied. Religious killings are fact. The dead walking the streets of ancient Jerusalem is not.
@Rose999123 It might be a distortion to you because people accept and believe what they want. Atheists believe God is a fallacy and so on. I am only doing what I deem is right by telling you Jesus is the Son of the living God, who died for the sins of the whole world, rose again, ascended into heaven and is coming again to reign. It's not for me to persuade you; it would be the height of arrogance to believe my feeble words can persuade a learned lady like you to believe in something.
To accept Jesus as the savior, one has to accept that man is born in a state of SIN. Even babies inherited this. This "original sin" (or fall) is why Jesus had to die to atone for the sins of mankind. Without accepting this false basis - there is no need for Jesus' death. Redemption through Jesus is the only means. To be "saved" this prerequisite must be assumed! Our state of sin MUST be in PLACE for the atonement. A gruesome death apparently freed us. Quite a stretch. "God so loved the world.."
@Chine62 - It doesn't reflect favorably on your arguments to call others who disagree with you "liars". Many could equate your views as spreading lies too. Your beliefs are "beliefs" - not facts to be imposed. You may think they are facts but they are not. Many think Christianity is a myth-based concept. That doesn't equate to lying. Killing innocents to impose Christianity is a fact. The Protestant witch hunts are a fact (in Europe & US). Most of Christain history is bathed in blood - Fact.
@Rose999123 My saying someone is a liar because they distort the truth in order to validate their claim is not wrong in any way. No true Christian would soil their hands in blood just because they want people to accept Jesus. The foundation of Christianity is Jesus Himself and based on the information we have about Him He neither told His followers to kill because of Him, nor did He engage in violence Himself. So these 'protestants' you refer to were none of Jesus'.
Don't sugarcoat it Chris. Tell us what you really think.
Possibly the best thing on youtube. And in my playlist it's followed by Joe Walsh "Rocky Mountain Way". It just seems so right.
willbond 1 week ago in playlist Favorite videos
@Elvishairdude89 If you're gonna troll, you'll need better bait than that.
MrMZaccone 2 weeks ago
Our species has been around for 100K years depending on how you define "our species." I'd say it's more like 50,000 years.
ObjectiveBob 2 weeks ago
@ObjectiveBob The Toba Bottleneck was about 70,000 years ago so you're probably in the ballpark. In any case, I think Hitch's point stands.
MrMZaccone 2 weeks ago
R.I.P
salaam29 1 month ago 2
RIP Christopher Hitchens.
jimpossible2k 2 months ago
This is just perfect. The bible, religion, the pointlessness of the so called resurrection. It's all there. How anyone can still believe after being exposed to this, well it shows religion up for the mental disease it really is.
zapkvr 2 months ago 2
I love watching this, stupid peoples world view torn down in minutes.
Hermoor 3 months ago 10
@Hermoor Yes, and guess what? Josif Stalin destroyed christianity in Communist russia...I hope you can also make a cogent argument about what happened durign that horrible regime, without religion...L0L
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc He made himself a religious leader, instead of worshipping Jesus they worshipped him. He controlled religion in order to control the people. Very religious society...there is no society on earth that has turned into a nazi or stalin like society, that has been secular. Only the religious go to war and fight among eachother...right now it's religious USA and religious middle east. You don't see atheistic sweden going to war do you? We are more at peace than you christians...idiots.
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor No, he persecuted religion and if that is your argument that proves that leaders put themselves in such position for sheep to adore them. Welcome to the real world, and forgive hitchens for decieving you about human nature.
About No society being non-religion never turning into a nazi or communist regime, bravo you make half-ass assertions. That doesn't prove my point: Stalinist russia was a no-religion state and only recently the church there began to emerge again.
gnossticc 1 month ago
@Hermoor Again: Stalinist russia was a NO-religion regime, prove otherwise and you win the argument something that you cannot prove. Now, what is your magic formula to turn this world into a NO-religous world? The only way is to try Stalinist formula again and then say that the leaders there were begotten by religion and turned into Gods...Hmmm stop talking from yous smelly ass...
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc Maybe you need to read history, Stalin russia was a case of leader worship. He was seen as a god by the people, as a saint within their christian faith. This has happened before throughout history, in mongolia Genghis Khan was a god. Today in north korea kim jung something is said to have been born by a virgin...he is a god. This is a sort of religion, absolutely not atheistic or secular. Only religious people are as dumb as those regimes.
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor Sir, you are the one who needs to interpret correctly what religion on NON-religion is: Stalin persecuted religion and forced it underground. Until recently it emerged again. Any leader, any guide in whatever field may be regarded as a god, as you do with Hitchens. he is you "spiritual" guide.
It doesnt't matter if you want to conform your beliefs with reality: Stalin persecuted the very thing that Hitchens hates, religion and it worked out wonderfully, right?
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc Stalin did nothing against religion, he only took control of the superstitious minds of the masses and used christianity to gain control over the people. And hitchens my spiritual guide, hahaha there are many more intelligent people than hitchens. My "spiritual" guide would probably either be fictional people or possibly the dalai lama. Not that I believe in buddhism or even practise it, but the dalai lama sais a lot of wise things. Much wiser than anything jesus said.
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor Hitchens "In the past our enemy was communist ATHEISM..." Hitchens, please instruct this fool!
gnossticc 1 month ago
@Hermoor In hitchens own words: "In the past OUR enemy was communist ATEHISM (Hitchens is atheist), now it is Religious regimes..."
According to Hitchens, religion is believing in a man in the sky, Stalin was a real man. Duh!
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc Communism and atheism aren't synonyms of eachother. You should look up the definitions, because you obviously have no idea what they mean. Religion isn't believing in a man in the sky dumb fuck. While you are at it look up the definition of religion idiot...you don't even know the defenitions of the words you try to define. Confused idiot...
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor If those terms are not synonimous, please resurrect Hitchens and tell him because HE STATED THAT!
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc If he said that give me video link and at what minute second he said it. Also I'm pretty sure he hasn't said anything about stalin doing the things he did because he was an atheist. Russia was very religiuos...and the leader...stalin became a saint...within christianity. Stalin was atheist...but he didn't do anything in the name of atheism. Communist russia...was religious...stupid...ignorant. There is a difference between an entire country and one person.
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor Sir, again: Stalin persecuted and purged his OWN people! Do you know that? He also has a KGB...Do you know what that was? 25,000,000 aproximmately of his own people murdered. Sent to the Gulag and Siberia, his own people to die in forced labors by their own Saint! I know, he is indeed regarded as saint but that doesn't change the fact that STALIN PERSECUTED CHRISTIANISM AND UNTIL RECENTLY SURFACED AGAIN! That's the argument!
gnossticc 1 month ago
@gnossticc He didn't persecute christianity, he took control of it. He used christianity to commit his evil actions, the only reason he could take control of the people is because they believed him to be a godlike being. And the only reason they believed that was because of christianity...which stalin took control of. If you want to know a society without religion look at scandinavia...we haven't been at war for 200 years. Atheism has been more peaceful than christianity by far.
Hermoor 1 month ago
@Hermoor Oh lawdy! You are dumb! "Stalin didn't persecute christianity" L0L
gnossticc 1 month ago
@Hermoor Again: Stalinist Russia was a se-cu-lar regime.
gnossticc 1 month ago
@Hermoor My friend, please stop playing the fool. Stalin destroyed the church in Russia, if you insist in thi, you are indeed the dumbest fool on earth: "Hitchens: In the past it was communist ASTHEISM OUR ENEMY..."
You need a serious education...Are you american by the way?
gnossticc 1 month ago
All the people smiling are Christians who think he stupid because he doesn't believe in talking snakes and a 6,000 year old earth. The two girls at 2:42 might be listening and that's about it.
ScottandTanyaYoung 3 months ago 2
That shaky camera action is shit....
kaduisaui 3 months ago
God didn't reveal himself with the Chinese, because he doesn't like them. That's why he allows them to live in ignorance and worship Buddha.
Cenamark2 3 months ago
1:21 HOT
weefeatures 3 months ago
Hitchens eviscerates Christianity, then God eviscerates his esophagus. Coincidence?? I think not.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Do you have evidence of the god you speak of? Or evidence of evisceration by His Hand? Hitch eviscerates all religions equally, not just xianity, so why aren't you baseless asserting that it was Allah that made the payback?
BiffWhitebread13 3 months ago
@BiffWhitebread13 The cancer is the evidence. It's clear as day and indisputable. And Allah is just the Arabic word for God.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Cancer is evidence of cancer, nothing more. Can you provide evidence of a connection to god? So you are saying that the god of islam and xianity is the same?
BiffWhitebread13 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights If Christians didn't get cancer, you might have a point. But they do, so you don't.
ninjajesus81 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights So how do you explain all the babies that die of excruciatingly painful cancers before they reach 1 year old or 2 years old?
Are they just paying early for their potential sins? well done, you win "sick theist comment of the day"
Why am I not surprised to see your nationality is American?
Lawlessuk 3 months ago
@Lawlessuk The only thing that's sick is the feeling you will have in your stomach when you realize you will spend an eternity in hell. And yes, even babies must pay for the Original Sin.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Yawn. Same old BS from a delusional happy clapper.
Lawlessuk 3 months ago
@Lawlessuk Have you ever considered the fact that maybe you're the delusional one? I'm just saying...
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights I used to be like you actually. I believed what I'd been told. Then I started to wonder. Then I started to learn and understand a whole lot more about religion.
Now I'm an atheist. The concept of eternal guilt/suffering/heaven is as likely as me being able to lay a golden egg.
So I suggest you find something that makes you happier and more accepting of life and the people around you, because quite frankly, you sound miserable.
Lawlessuk 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Lawlessuk I'm happy as a clam. I will spend eternity in paradise. You, on the other hand, will be tortured forever in a lake of fire. Have fun!
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights If you actually believe that you also MUST say that your god is an unimaginary evil one that has serios anger problems. And if you do not say so you at least must claim that you are a sick and evil unmoral being that wishes this to be true. Done.
kick2004 3 months ago
@kick2004 Morality is based on God. If God is ok with it, then it's moral. End of story.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Wow, than mankind got a pretty different understanding of whats moral if even kids have to pay for that one man ate an apple... Damn, sounds like an asshole to me your god... And there's it, if that is the morality of your god, and mankind got a different understanding of whats moral, it can't be from your god. End of story -.-
kick2004 3 months ago
@kick2004 Man is sinner, so it's no surprise to me that you and many others find the righteous lord to be evil. You will pay for that thought in due time.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Your god sucks cocks in hell. End of story.
fdasherv 3 months ago
@fdasherv Well at least you admit He exists. That's a start.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights ^^ Ok, you are free to explain to me how I "sinned", if your god has created me as I am?! I can't belief it, so, how have I sinned? My sin is that I ask questions? And I'm gonna pay for that? WOW, sounds like a very friendly god -.- More like a Dictator if you ask me! Have you never wondered why your religion/god has such a problem with asking questions? And with science? Think about that and ask yourself if this sounds godlike!
kick2004 3 months ago
@kick2004 God gave you free will so that you can choose to sin and yes you will pay for them. What makes you think that God should be "friendly"? You don't questions Him, just obey or pay the price with eternal torture.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CambridgeHeights So you admit that god is not a good god? You know, I usually don't obey assholes! I don't have to question him. As long as there isn't a single piece of evidence for him there simply is nothing to question. And in addition, "so that you can choose to sin and yes you will pay for them", which is like... Haha, lets see if they obey me, if not, lets fuck them for eternity! Dude, your god has some issues! Just sayin ^^
kick2004 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights nice trolling!! :D
weefeatures 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights
'God gave you free will'
Divine brain implantation / modification eh?
Simple . . . .elegant . . . and totally implausible.
Uberlaser 3 months ago
@Uberlaser God is omnipotent. It's completely plausible.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights
'Believe in me or you'll be tortured forever'
Thanks for that Free-will, God, you implausible all-powerful all-knowing thing you . .
Uberlaser 3 months ago
@Uberlaser That's right, you should thank Him. He could have just tortured you forever, which is what you deserve for being a sinner.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights
Apparently your God is all-seeing and all-knowing.
He already knows what's going to happen to me . . .
What's the point in thanking him? Or is that a loophole in your eloquent brainwashed logic?
Uberlaser 3 months ago
@Uberlaser Logic is a tool of Satan to confuse our fallible minds. Obey Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior or perish in the flames of hell.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Morality doesn't come from God. Christians say morality is absolute and never changing yet differences in morals beliefs has split Christianity into thousands of different groups.
You think you have the same moral beliefs as Christians 2,000 years ago? Don't kid yourself.
Also how did the Chinese develop morals and civilization without your God?
Cenamark2 3 months ago
@Cenamark2 The Bible hasn't changed, therefore morals haven't changed. If the Chinese had some morality, it was because they coincidentally were following parts of what the Bible said.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights The way people interpret the Bible continues to change. That's why we have thousands of different groups of Christians. Also non-Christians don't get their morals from coincidentally doing what the Bible says. That's ludicrous. Morality is just natural to humans.
The Bible is a poor place to get your morals. If we really did get our morals from the Buy Bull there would be a lot more stoning going on.
Cenamark2 3 months ago
@Cenamark2 There's only one way to interpret the Bible; God's way. The only reason morality is partly 'natural' is because God put it there.
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights What abou the dinosaurs that lived on this earth before us?
Hermoor 3 months ago
@Hermoor they didn't
CambridgeHeights 3 months ago
@Hermoor They were Presbyterians.
markedwardindc 2 months ago
@Cenamark2 You're interpreting the Bible wrong. If you're not a Methodist you're getting the Bible all wrong.
Cenamark2 3 months ago
@CambridgeHeights You are denying that thousands of cultures had moral standards in place long before any of them read the bible. What about animals that show compassion and empathy for one another? Why do they care about each other? It's because it's in their genes.......and it's in our genes too.
rep300 2 months ago
@rep300 It's in our genes? Then why do identical twins behave differently from a moral perspective?
CambridgeHeights 2 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Gene-Environment interaction
unfathomablebo 2 months ago
@CambridgeHeights Google it for yourself.
Dzonrid 2 months ago
@CambridgeHeights It's because identical twins don't experience every situation and every circumstance identically at exactly the same time, if at all. And even minutely differing conditions during seemingly similar interactions can cause immensely differing results. And once one twin experiences one thing differently for the very first time(likely during birth or shortly after) they FOREVER have continually different, even radically different decision making and reactionary concepts.
Tetrahedragon2 1 month ago
@CambridgeHeights Wasn't it because Hitchen's smoked in exccess? Gee, not only believers are stupid, that's for sure! L0L
gnossticc 1 month ago
Francis Collins is a Christian...btw
tmeyer10000 4 months ago
Awesome! Awesome because it's true.
shabido1 4 months ago
that was a crippling hitchslap.
blaze8272000 4 months ago
@blaze8272000 with whiskey after-taste.
endofscene 4 months ago
@blaze8272000 I think it was Hitchens who coined the phrase: you are too stupid for me to remain sober.
endofscene 4 months ago 10
What a bunch of BS Christopher Hitchens spews!!!! LOL! >;-)
advantage73 5 months ago
@advantage73 Please make an argument. Otherwise you can't be differenced from a random internet troll.
Nemomain 5 months ago
@Nemomain Christopher Hitchens along with Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins are FOOLS
AND COWARDS! LOL! >;-) Both Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins AND Hitchens manipulate and distort Religion to attack and discredit Theists, period! Religion AND the Nature of GOD are unique...Religion is a Human Institution while the Nature of GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING to say the very least, my child! Additionally, Both won't debate World Renowned Theists...LOL! READ your Bible AND Start getting right with GOD! ;-)
advantage73 5 months ago
@advantage73 They arn't cowards, theres no point in trying to debate those who are unwilling to listen to evidence, rather then simple speculation, and finally, you should actually read the bible for what its worth. Heres some examples of texts, since all christian's do is quote the nice parts.
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness -- Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
TheLordValarath 4 months ago
Comment removed
TheLordValarath 4 months ago
@TheLordValarath
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord -- Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. What should I do?
TheLordValarath 4 months ago
@TheLordValarath 5 dollar. give her to your neighbours for 4 dollar and they'll forget about the stench.
endofscene 4 months ago
@TheLordValarath It doesn't matter if women take offense. They aren't even human.
endofscene 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Nemomain Christopher Hitchens along with Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins are FOOLS
AND COWARDS! LOL! >;-) Both Sir Richard "GAYLORD" Dawkins AND Hitchens manipulate and distort Religion to attack and discredit Theists, period! Religion AND the Nature of GOD are unique...Religion is a Human Institution while the Nature of GOD IS EVERYTHING AND NOTHING to say the very least, my child! Additionally, Both won't debate World Renowned Theists...LOL! READ your Bible AND Start getting right with GOD! ;-)
advantage73 5 months ago
@advantage73
ya ok
gods not real get a life. dinosaurs ruled the earth for 240 million years; your feeble god was born 2011 years ago.
Eat shit faggot
pajiad191 4 months ago
@pajiad191 GOD rules over you, my child. >;-)
advantage73 4 months ago
@advantage73 hey obviously you love god a lot... so why dont you sacrifice yourself in an act of martyrdom by slitting both wrists and walking around in a park with a bunch of signs untill you bleed to death?
DaBluedude100 4 months ago
@advantage73 Your god sucks cocks in hell. Yea, verily, He and the Son with Him.
fdasherv 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@advantage73 "What a bunch of BS Christopher Hitchens spews!!!! LOL! >;-)"
What is there to laugh about?
Go play with your barbie doll and Jesus fairy tales somewhere else.
saintpine 4 months ago
@advantage73 U mad Bro?
DaBluedude100 4 months ago 3
@DaBluedude100 hahahahah LOL! >;-)
advantage73 4 months ago
agree 100%
topperheartramada 5 months ago
@73geneva - That an empty tomb means a dead man rose. That political unrest with Roman authorities in turbulent times means a man claimed to be god rather than the real problem of sedition at hand. The Jews had enough issues with Imperial rule & the safety of their community. History proved they had good reason. Adding supernatural causation is a stretch. To: Jews I wish a Happy Rosh Hashanah. To anyone following this banter - thanks for reading. To 73geneva - thanks for your time. All the best.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Thanks for your time.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - No where in the history of the world has it been recorded that a bunch of dead people came back. This is not "extraordinary" - it doesn't occur in a sane world. What is more realistic: That Herod sought to please the Jews or the very real historical fact the growing anger against Jewish suppression led to a full revolt in 66 CE. & the destruction of the temple - a catastrophy for the Jews. The Jews were not pleased with Jesus for political reasons - a real threat to them re: Romans.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@73geneva - Luke 23: 2 says "And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” This was a direct political challenge to the authorities who were exploiting the Jews financially. No religious entity would be concerned about taxes. Jesus presented an political/economic challenge to Roman order. The Jews had not authority to execute - the Romans did so for sedition.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 You rightly answered the question urself. You're conversant with the Bible. Look at the whole scenario again. Taxes and so on came up when they brought Jesus before Pilate; cos, I repeat, that only would interest him, considering his position as governor. But these same folks had already decided Jesus must die because He claimed to be the Son of God; that was their gross. Caiaphas did not rent His garments and call for Jesus' death because of taxes; it was because He claimed deity.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - Jesus was causing public problems at Passover. The Romans were sensitive to disturbances as multitudes came to Jerusalem at this time. Jews were forced to buy sacrificial animals & tax proceeds were given to Romans. Jesus protested this. He turned the money changers tables over as Jews were forced to buy a certain currency at the temple (more revenue for Romans). His statements were against the authorities and led to his arrest. To avoid more provocation, he was arrested & sentenced.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 The fact of the matter which you are either unaware of or don't want to acknowledge is this: There was no way the Romans could have arrested and killed Jesus without His people being part of it. The Jewish leaders initiated the move, arrested Him and found Him guilty of death in their own court. For them it was because He claimed to be the Son of God; that was their gross. But since they had no power to execute anyone they handed Him to the governor and here, the story changed...cont
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 ...It was no longer that He claimed to be the Son of God; it was now He claimed to be the King of the Jews. The first was spiritual, this time political, cos that would interest Pilate . It was such a solid game plan that they told Pilate if he freed Jesus then he was not a friend of the emperor. For Pilate, Jesus must have been nothing but a renegade, nondescript Jew, envied by His people. But then, he couldn't care less; he'd earlier slaughtered many others b4, so he did the job.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - Cont'd: The Jews don't continue to hate Jesus. Judaism is far more just as it states that righteous gentiles will earn god's favor without belief in Judaism - unlike Christianity that claims damnation for the righteous if they do not accept Christ. The Jews at the time of Jesus had very real problems with the Romans. They had to manage their own community or face consequences. They had no power to "end" Christianity. The Destruction of the Temple in 70 CE is proof of how bad it was.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@geneva - Not producing a body does not automatically mean a dead person rose. How does one become the other? The Jews at the time of Jesus were under Roman domination. The only control they had was over the Sanhedrin. Any disruption from fellow Jews (e.g Jesus) meant trouble from Roman authorities. Jews were subject to heavy taxes which the Romans collected from them, especially during high holidays. Jesus caused disturbances during Passover. This caused both economic & legal tensions (cont'd).
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 You said not producing a body does not mean a dead person rose. Too bad, the case of this 'dead person' was unique cos He said repeatedly that He'd die and rise again. In fact, He used their most sacred temple as a symbol of what He'd do when He said, "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I'll make it rise." Even in death He was such a nightmare to the powers that be that His own people persuaded the governor to guard the tomb. About taxes, economic and legal tension. I don't have..cont
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - I would still like to know why there are no Non-Christian accounts of Matthew 27: 53 claiming many dead people rose up from their graves and walked through Jerusalem. That many people saw them. This event should have been recorded "everywhere" in the known world - but it is recorded "NOwhere" except in the NT. Why - because it did not happen. The NT is making claims of non-events.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 an idea of what you mean by linking this up with Jesus' death. Those were in place when the Jews handed Jesus to the governor and ensured He got the death sentence, even when the governor wanted to free Him. They even prounced a curse on themselves that His blood be upon them and their descendants. What in the world has tax and legal tensions got to do with an empty tomb. You know, I'm even surprise you agree that Jesus even died in the first place.
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Recorded everywhere; What do you mean by 'everywhere'? Extraordinary events happen around the world everyday that you don't hear about. And how in the world could you say the Jews had no power to end Christianity? They were able to convince a ruthless leader like Pilate to execute Jesus, the very founder of Christianity, even when he wanted to set Him free. What else couldn't they do? They tried to liquidate the early church and boy, it wasn't just through debates like Hitchens...
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - Your beliefs are based on NT accounts only. There are no NON-Christian accounts that confirm Jesus rose from the dead. Again, you cite the source to confirm the source. That is not evidence. It's similar to Ahmadinejad's followers saying there was no holocaust - because he said so, or wrote so & they believe so. An empty tomb does not equate to a dead person rising. Osiris also died & rose from the dead 3 days later. This is recorded, is it true? Millions of people believed this.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Ma'am, as I said earlier, Jesus was a Jew. Jews are still around today. Why didn't their ancestors produce the body of the man whom they feared so much that they had to guard His tomb? This is not about the Bible. The Jews hated and still hates Jesus more than anyone else, cos they believe He was a deceiver. If anyone would have wanted to end Christianity they were the ones and Christianity hinges on Jesus' resurrection. If they'd produced the body there won't be any arguement here.
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 They went about it brazenly by killing the Christians. Stephen was killed, under the supervision of Saul, who later became Paul. James, the brother of John was killed and when Herod saw it pleased the Jews, he arrested Peter, intending to kill him as well. What are you talking about? Most of them had to literally flee for their lives. It was on his way to arrest them that Saul met Jesus Himself and the story changed.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - Ironically, you and others who denounce the Council of Nicea fail to realize that the very New Testament bible which you place faith in, from where you get your sources to confirm what you believe - were all put together by the Council of Nicea. The books of the NT were compiled by them, the theology set by them, the various books selected by them. They were split on the divinity of Jesus as many claimed he was not divine. They chose the divinity route discarding other views.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 I read Chine62's mails to you and he did a good job, so there's no need going through it all over again. You said there is no evidence that Jesus rose. How funny. A man is dead; b4 He died He said He'd rise again 3 days later. Three days later the tomb was empty! Jesus was a Jew. The Jewish nation is still there today. All they'd have done to abrogate and silence Christianity for once was simply produce the body: that's all. Anyway, all the best in your pursuits.
73geneva 5 months ago
you have to -actually- be retarded to watch this and still believe in god
symnzXx 5 months ago
@73geneva - A great book is "Christianity, The First Three Thousand Years" (yes, 3,000 years) by awarding-winning historian Diamaid MacCulloch. Brilliantly researched and well written. He writes about how the previous 1,000 years "before" Jesus shaped Christianity. Then 2,000 years of Christian history after. Great sections on Hellenic and pagan influences and the development of Jesus as divine. Try objectivity away from the supernatural.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@73geneva - Why not reverse the question & ask - who gained from the doctrine that Jesus was divine & resurrected? Read the history of how the early emperors sought to consolidate various pagan beliefs under one umbrella & controlled them through the new religion - Christianity (a near duplicate of their existing beliefs including holidays). Mithraism was a competitor & was absorbed. Read historic non-Christain sources about that struggle and how Christianity took shape. They finalized the NT.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@73geneva - Where is the evidence that Jesus resurrected? Quoting the bible here to justify it is not evidence. A claimed empty tomb is not evidence, it's just empty. The holocaust has millions of eyewitnesses. Historical, photographic & forensic evidence. Meticulous documents with precise authors. Why are there no historical accounts of all the dead saints (in Matthew) who walked in ancient Jerusalem then? NO non-Christian accounts of anyone seeing them. It boils down to evidence, not belief.
Rose999123 5 months ago
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lightandbeautiful 5 months ago
@73geneva - No need for you to add that surely "Satan" has infiltrated every other belief system on earth (especially the Catholic Church as you stated). No doubt all of this corruption has occured - with the exception of Evangelism. Every one else is wrong. History is wrong, cultural influences on beliefs are wrong. Documentary (texts) developments are wrong. Major socio-political decisions discarded. Heaven, hell, ghosts, dead walking are all deemed facts. Condemnation of fellow man prevails.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@73geneva - Christianity claims a person who has lived a righteous life, has helped others, provides food to the hungry & shelter to the poor etc is barred from "heaven" if s/he does not believe in Jesus. In other words, such a person is damned. Jesus rose from the dead - is part of a belief system and NOT fact. Sin, saviors, blood, god becoming his own son, then dead man becoming a ghost, then fusing with god. Then more dead walking in Jerusalem. Visions from sky, god dictating a letter. Wow.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Jesus' resurrection, as you said is not a fact. Well, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran, said the holocaust never happened; he said it was a publicity stunt initiated by the Jews to attract undue sympathy. So, we see people are free to believe and reject whatever they deem fit; it all boils down to that.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - re: John being on Patmos - Jesus appears to him (after 60 years) to DICTATE A LETTER! Is it signed "god"? We have many of Jesus' own family members who apparently do not believe what is claimed in the Nicean code. But instead Christians give weight to doctrine formulated in the 4th century over people closest to Jesus. Most bible scholars will admit that the "eyewitness" accounts are written by several, unknown authors. This is historical fact, not faith-fiction.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Like Chine62 told you, the Nicean Council is the worst thing that ever happened to true Christianity, cos that was when Satan infiltrated the Church through Catholicism. And boy, it never had anything to do with scriptures. The life of Jesus (gospel) was already in circulation before this NIcean Council. John, in the gospel that bears his name, emphatically said that Jesus did many other things that were not recorded; even a child knows it's true: His life between 12-30 was not..cont
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 I told you also that right there in the Bible, Jesus' own family members rejected Him as deity; scripture says so clearly; one does not need extra sources. In fact, the animosity against Him started right from when He preached His first message, amongst His own people: they wanted to throw Him off a cliff. Luke 4:16-29. But His victory over death was the clinch to His claim as the messiah; the Son of the living God. One of His half brothers, James, subsequently became one of the...
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - What also is irrelevant to Christians are all the other gospels written by Jesus' contemporaries which state that he was not divine, nor do they mention his atonement. They thought of him as a mortal man, a prophet. These writings were deemed heretical by the Council of Nicea in 325 CE - through which we now have their select and biased version of the NT. All the other accounts were banned. Had they chosen otherwise, your beliefs would be altered. Blind faith without understanding.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 ...Pillars of the early church. In fact he was one of those Paul met. He also wrote the Book of James. Jude too. The whole point of this is that Jesus' resurrection is the proof of His deity; that was all. His own disciples had doubts about Him. But after He rose, everything changed completely. Jesus, like all men, certainly used the restroom, ate, slept, etc; no one disputes that. But then His victory over death is the clinch that He is the saviour of the world; deity. That's all.
73geneva 5 months ago
@72geneva - For the sake of clarity, "I" didn't say due to Adam's sins all men are sinners. I said Paul (who wrote a good deal of the NT) said it. I am quoting the source as many Christians do to justify their dogmas. I don't believe it. Without this fall of man, no need for Jesus' atonement & redeemer. Resurrection myths dominate pagan cultures. So many part god-part men who sacrificed themselves as atonement. Paul borrowed heavily from this for ease of spreading his new theology to pagans.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Like what someone said here, the angst against Paul is ludicrous. John, who lived with Jesus for 3 years, saw part of His deity at the transfiguration and His full deity at Patmos, emphatically said the remission of sins is only possible through Jesus. Peter, another eyewitness to Jesus' majesty, also said the same thing. About whether you believe Christianity or not is irrelevant. Even Jesus' half brothers did not believe in HIm, neither did (do) the Jews, His own people so its ok
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - Firstly, I have no connection to a mythical Adam who did anything (good or bad). Sin is a concept vs what is moral, ethical etc. What is a "sin" in one culture is acceptable in another. It is relative. Whether I or anyone else commits any wrong doing has nothing to do with Jesus. Christianity claims even the best person canNOT be redeemed if s/he doe NOT accept Christ! It's not about me - it's about a warped concept based in doctrine, which claims to be "the" only salvation. Not OK.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Certainly, no one can get to heaven without Jesus; He said so Himself. And it isn't about a 'mythical' Adam, it's about you.
73geneva 5 months ago
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@73geneva - Paul authored in NT that man inherited sin from Adam. Due to this, man canNOT serve as his own redeemer; good works are to NO avail, for even these canNOT satisfy the justice of god (Gal 2: 16). Jesus took on the punishment via his resurrection. This sin is "inherited" without our personal fault. Only belief in a gruesome death will "save" us from this? So doing good without this belief will not "save" us? As you stated below: "it's tyranny and the height of wickedness." I agree.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@73geneva - Paul authored in NT that man inherited sin from Adam. Due to this, man canNOT serve as his own redeemer; good works are to NO avail, for even these canNOT satisfy the justice of god (Gal 2: 16). Jesus took on the punishment via his resurrection. This sin is "inherited" without our personal fault. Only belief in a gruesome death will "save" us from this? So doing good without this belief will not "save" us? As you stated below: "it's tyranny and the height of wickedness." I agree.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 ..the consequence followed which is death. The effect of sin is present within your own life and at mos,t sixty yrs from now you and I will be dead: that is the price of sin. It's b4 you every day. But someone was responsible for Adam's fall and God's gross is against him and not His own creation. God sent Jesus to pay for the sins of all men which is death. But then, the power of sin could not hold Him, cos He had no sin and 3 days later He rose again, thus putting the devil..contd
73geneva 5 months ago
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@Rose999123 ..the consequence followed which is death. The effect of sin is present within your own life and at mos,t sixty yrs from now you and I will be dead: that is the price of sin. It's b4 you every day. But someone was responsible for Adam's fall and God's gross is against him and not His own creation. God sent Jesus to pay for the sins of all men which is death. But then, the power of sin could not hold Him, cos He had no sin and 3 days later He rose again, thus putting the devil..contd
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 ..to shame and at the same time earn victory for all who believe He has paid the price for their sins. That's why Jesus said He that believes in me but he were dead yet shall he live. Again, God's gross is not against His creation, it's against the one who made them fall. However, your likes assume this to be a waste of time and thereby want to do it your way. Jesus is the only hope for you, lady and without Him all men are lost. God loves you and sent Jesus to pay your debt.
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - The Scriptures state repeatedly of sin & death entering the world through “one man’s transgression”. Due to Adam’s sin, all men are sinners. Problem with Penal Substitution is it presents a god who is very concerned with retribution for sin from his wrath against sinners. This does not fit with the words/attitude of Jesus. God required an atoning sacrifice for this. Jesus' bloody death is linked to the original Fall (Adam & Eve). Without this - there is NO basis for Christianity.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Scripture says through one man's transgression sin entered the world. You said due to Adam's sin all men are sinners. You answered the whole thing. The child of a lion is a lion cub; just as a baby eagle is an eaglet, with all the intrinsic tendencies of their parents. Adam's influence on you gives you the inherent tendency to sin. Now tell me, why do you commit sin? Certainly you can't say since your birth till now you've not done something bad; even if you say so I won't believe.
73geneva 5 months ago
@Rose999123 The question now is why can't even the most righteous of men be that way at every single point in their lives? Impeccably righteous. Why would even the best of men do something bad occasionally. This is not about Adam anymore; it's you. So-called religious people attribute the death of Jesus to be a waste of time and I'm surprised you agreed He even died in the first place. They want to do it themselves. Adam had no reason to sin; He was created perfect. And when He did sin...cont
73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - You're missing the point. The concept of Jesus dying for the sins of mankind originated in the fall of man (Adam & Eve). "Without" this original sin, there is NO need for Jesus to be sent as a saviour. One is linked directly to the other. Christians clearly believe that Jesus' death was a "ransom" by which humanity was offered freedom from the sin acquired at the Fall. Read Romans 5: 12-19 & 1 Cor 15: 21-22. There can be no idealized belief in Jesus & his atonement without the Fall.
Rose999123 5 months ago
The black and white film adds a certain something. Don't you think?
polkmine23 5 months ago
Cont'd: A further "NO" that Adam & Eve caused this "Fall" with their wrong-doings. To accept Jesus as the savior, this Fall must be accepted to trigger this chain reaction of events. No - to Romans 5: 12-19. No - to Jesus as a "ransom". No - to anyone who judges others who don't believe in all of this as lacking or hateful. No - to destroying minds by injecting myths as facts and the further proselytizing of it as a duty, while not conceding that all of this is quite incredible to sane minds.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 Also, no one holds you responsible for what Adam and Eve did; you're responsible for your own life and that is all that matters. No where did the Bible say anyone will be punished for what Adam and Eve did. If it were so, then it's tyranny and the height of wickedness.
73geneva 5 months ago
A more positive view of creation is to assume that man (with all of our flaws) is NOT born in a state of sin. We accept mankind commits aggression & evil against others. We also accept there is much good in people. There is NO original "Fall of Man" (a false stain on all). So NO need for a blood sacrifice from Jesus to reverse this. What creator would condemn innocent children with this inherent defect? NO original sin, NO god-incarnate atoning for mankind. NO religious superiority. All myths.
Rose999123 5 months ago 4
@73geneva - It's unfortunate that when people choose not to "believe" in Jesus it is equated with "hate". The ultimate form of hate occured when god deemed man to be born in a state of eternal sin (according to Christianity). This "sin" is the reason why god had to send his "son" to die a torturous death to "save" us. This entire proposition rests on this ONE basis. Those who choose not to accept this are "hateful"?! Don't waste your prayers on us. Pray for the gift of reason for yourselves.
Rose999123 5 months ago
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73geneva 5 months ago
@73geneva - It's unfortunate that when people choose not to "believe" in Jesus it is equated with "hate". The ultimate form of hate occured when god deemed man to be born in a state of eternal sin (according to Christianity). This "sin" is the reason why god had to send his "son" to die a torturous death to "save" us. This entire proposition rests on this ONE basis. Those who choose not to accept this are "hateful"?! Don't waste your prayers on us. Pray for the gift of reason for yourselves.
Rose999123 5 months ago
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73geneva 5 months ago
Whoever is on this page, pls hear me. It is appointed unto men once to die and after this comes judgment. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. There is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, who died for our sins and rose again. Don't let Satan deceive you, pls. Come to Jesus today; He shall forgive all your iniquities: hard drugs, immoral sex, theft, etc. Come to Him now; He is mighty to save.
73geneva 5 months ago
I have to wonder sometimes, If god "does" exist, why then would he create a world where if we stop breathing for a few minutes, we will suffocate. Why if we refuse to kill another organism and consume its flesh, we will starve. Why are there many more ways to suffer than to be happy? If this universe was created by a deity, it obviously could have been created "any" way the deity saw fit. So why like this? I am fairly confident that I could have made a better universe.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@Chine62 - Again you are free to believe what you want - just as I am. It is impossible for many of us to accept supernatural events as fact. To us the dead don't rise, god does not have a child through a virgin, god-incarnate, a blood sacrifice is required. Having faith does not rest on whether a person is "learned" or not - intellectual ability is separate from belief. Belief is not based on empirical proof, it's internal. Historical influences and developments can be traced however.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 All the best ma'am; just as you are.
chine62 5 months ago
@chine62 Great job, friend. You rightly answered the question on why the world hates Jesus. They hate me without a cause, Jesus said.
Anyway, let's not stop to pray for them. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness.
73geneva 5 months ago
@Chine62 - I read what you wrote: "Not even Muslims, who are more devoted are willing to die because they believe Muhammed was deity; they wont even dream of it." - not quite clear on syntax.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 What I simply mean is that some of them are willing to kill or die not because they think Muhammed is divine. Christians, on the other hand, are willing to die because of their belief that Jesus is the Son of God; deity. I didn't just exclude it to Muslims alone; I meant other religions as well.
chine62 5 months ago
@Chine62 - Muslims do NOT believe Muhammand was a deity. They state clearly that he was a man with no divine attributes. Islam is strictly monotheistic just as Judaism. Muslims worship the god of Abraham. You don't seem to know basic beliefs of other religions. Even if Christians are willing to die for their faith - what exactly does that prove? Too bad god demands so much death from mankind. Sounds sadistic to kill his own "son" in such a gruesome manner. Blood and death for the sake of god.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 I said Muslims never claim that Muhammed is deity, but Christians claim Jesus is and that is what propells them; I don't know what you're talking about. You seem to either misunderstand me or ...I don't know. Please read my mails carefully before saying things I never said.
chine62 5 months ago
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@Chine62 - You say true Christians are willing to die because they believe their savior is god. That's fine - for them. It doesn't mean it's the truth, only that they believe this specific thing. The same can be said for any religion that promotes martyrdom. Apparently a horrible end-times war is to occur per NT. Of all of creation, only good Christians will go to heaven. The rest of us will meet an awful doom. That's great. I suppose my grave won't be flying open at that time - I don't qualify.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Chine62 - You say true Christians are willing to die because they believe their savior is god. That's fine - for them. It doesn't mean it's the truth, only that they believe this specific thing. The same can be said for any religion that promotes martyrdom. Apparently a horrible end-times war is to occur per NT. Of all of creation, only good Christians will go to heaven. The rest of us will meet an awful doom. That's great. I suppose my grave won't be flying open at that time - I don't qualify.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Chine62 - With all due respect, your statement that "someone is a liar because they distort the truth in order to validate their claim is not wrong in any way" - is difficult. I will not call anyone a liar - however many religious beliefs appear to be distortions of the truth. Again, what is truth to you is a gross distortion to me and others. There are many "truths" in history that cannot be denied. Religious killings are fact. The dead walking the streets of ancient Jerusalem is not.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 It might be a distortion to you because people accept and believe what they want. Atheists believe God is a fallacy and so on. I am only doing what I deem is right by telling you Jesus is the Son of the living God, who died for the sins of the whole world, rose again, ascended into heaven and is coming again to reign. It's not for me to persuade you; it would be the height of arrogance to believe my feeble words can persuade a learned lady like you to believe in something.
chine62 5 months ago
To accept Jesus as the savior, one has to accept that man is born in a state of SIN. Even babies inherited this. This "original sin" (or fall) is why Jesus had to die to atone for the sins of mankind. Without accepting this false basis - there is no need for Jesus' death. Redemption through Jesus is the only means. To be "saved" this prerequisite must be assumed! Our state of sin MUST be in PLACE for the atonement. A gruesome death apparently freed us. Quite a stretch. "God so loved the world.."
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Chine62 - It doesn't reflect favorably on your arguments to call others who disagree with you "liars". Many could equate your views as spreading lies too. Your beliefs are "beliefs" - not facts to be imposed. You may think they are facts but they are not. Many think Christianity is a myth-based concept. That doesn't equate to lying. Killing innocents to impose Christianity is a fact. The Protestant witch hunts are a fact (in Europe & US). Most of Christain history is bathed in blood - Fact.
Rose999123 5 months ago
@Rose999123 My saying someone is a liar because they distort the truth in order to validate their claim is not wrong in any way. No true Christian would soil their hands in blood just because they want people to accept Jesus. The foundation of Christianity is Jesus Himself and based on the information we have about Him He neither told His followers to kill because of Him, nor did He engage in violence Himself. So these 'protestants' you refer to were none of Jesus'.
chine62 5 months ago