@Raspect56 This is a common misconception. When Lord Ram Worshiped Shiva, he did not do so because he thought Shiva was supreme but rather he was worshiping himself inside the heart of Lord Shiva to show those who worship Lord Shiva how 2 actually worship Lord Shiva. Lord Ram was honoring his own devotee. not that Shiva is as supreme as VIshnu but rather Vishnu/Krsna r the source of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva & Lord Krsna/Vishnu r same yet different. Like milk & Yogurt. Yogurt comes from Milk.
The constant awareness that I am the same (Brahma) represents the most
dazzling flame. In this way when the bliss of Self-Realization sheds its bright
lustre, the error of duality, is dispersed and the infinite darkness of infatuation etc. which forms the family of Avidya disappears." but, "one is apt fall from path of wisdom soon...the ocean of transmigration, cannot be crossed without cultivating the same feeling of Rama as a servant cherishes towards his master"
...continued from above.... That was the evidence u requested & thus i presented it. Even if something happened with some of them, one can stick to SB. That's a safe and recommended way for Kali yuga
A reviler of Lord Hara and his own preceptor takes the form of a frog (after his death) and his birth in that form is repeated a thousand times. A reviler of the Brhmanas, after suffering tortures in a number of hells, is born on earth in the form of a crow. Those conceited souls who revile the gods and the Vedas are cast into the hell known as Raurava. They who delight in vilifying the saints are reborn as owls...
compiling all the vedas concluded with the bhagavatam. S.B.1.4.30 S.B 1.5.3 and 1.5.8-9 alsocheck Agni purana 272.6.7 and Matsya purana 53.20-22 and other such vedic sastras
indicates His equality with Brahman, which by the way, is confirmed in your 2nd ref. Brahma ITI, Paramatma ITI, Bhagavan ITI sabdyate. Nowhere is the mention of hierarchy. OM"
'Nowhere' is an absolute statement. See BG 15.15-20, Gopalatapani Upanisad
1.17, 2.23, 96, 107-116, SB 1.9.42, etc. The hierarchy is also understood by
their attributes and rasa (raso vai sah, Taittiriya Up. 2.7.1, raso'ham, BG
7.8). After all, Adi Sankara accepted Sri Krsna as the Supreme Person beyond
BG 15.15-20 is actually reaffriming my statement. BG 15.18: Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person.
Again, there are Shaiva Upanishads which also expound Shiva being the ONLY Supreme parabrahmam.
"Also see CC Adi 7.64 "Sometimes they ('Mayavadis') dress gorgeously and travel on the backs of elephants in processions, and thus• they are always puffed up, accepting themselves as jagad-gurus."And here is prabhupada's humility: 'The science of self-realisation' pg 17"
SP indirectly makes fun of them.
Btw, in advaita there's no place for a guru, what to speak of a jagat-guru.
....Again, there are Shaiva• Upanishads which also expound Shiva being the ONLY Supreme parabrahmam."
Sakta texts say the same about Sakti. So?
People with 'god competition' mentality can't understand the oneness and difference among Visnu, Siva and Sakti. You have to understand why such siddhantas are presented. So for different gunas different siddhantas were presented by Sri Vyasadev which i presented in my previous messeges.
Thnx 4 all ur messages. Its obvious that u r all over the map. I am curious as 2 what exactly
ur goal is. First u challenge with among other things the Madhvas not accepting Iskcon ascoming from their lineage which was proven wrong and instead you disregard those arguments and continued to focus on
other misconceptions regarding the sruti sastras which was also proven contradictory even by the struti sastras
"Again, a mistranslated verse and again taken out of contex Issue 1 - Why• is it that in the previous verse, Lord says, mama sadharmyam> agatah - attain My nature? That sounds like He is talking about Apotheosis.
My nature refers to attaining the same features as the Lord (sarupya mukti). SB 3.29.13, 9.4.67.
So now that there is no way to refute the statement, you are undermining its importance by providing a ref from purana? I wasn't talking about what the devotees want, I was talking about the correct translation of the verse. I am also for the Bhakti movement, but I am against the 'follow Bhakti principles only the way our sampradaya has laid out because all others are rascals' philosophy propounded by IskCON. Never heard Advaitists use such language. Perhaps because they are proper sidhhas
.....Never heard Advaitists use such language. Perhaps because they are proper sidhhas"
This is the same rhetoric of disguised envy over and over again.ISKCON doesn't attack other Vaisnavas. Some of them from time to time attack ISKCON though.Advaitists often attack ISKCON. So not everything is one,otherwise they wouldn't care.
(Bg17.4)? By your own logic (and Prabhupada's), Krishna is a 'demi-god' (whatever that means) since those in the mode of goodness worship 'demi-gods'. But your precious puranas say those in the mode of goodness worship Hari. You are refuting Lord Krishna only. After this, prabhupada in a lecture manipulated this and gave his own purport - those in the mode of passion worship demi-gods - contradicting Krishna Himself. wow.
There are no 'minor' deities. Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are all aspects of the Absolute Truth.• In order to attain the Absolute, one must transcend these three gunas, which is clear that we haven't"
These aspects are not on the same level. Unless that's understood, there's
no chance to understand more. In order to transcend these gunas one must ultimatly
come to the uttama siddhanta by surrendering to Lord Krsna/vishnu B.G 7.13 7.14 and S.B.1.2.23
Also see CC Adi 7.64 "Sometimes they ('Mayavadis') dress gorgeously and travel on the backs of elephants in processions, and thus they are always puffed up, accepting themselves as jagad-gurus."
15 refers to apihitam mukham, covered face. 16 says remove the rasmin, rays,to see rupam kalyana tamam, your most auspicious form. Iow, these texts are very clear. Abheda = qualitative oneness between jiva and isvara
Sri Krsna has clearly expressed in Bhagavad-gita that goodness is superior to passion & ignorance. Similarly, Sri Suta Gosvami explains in the S.B (1.2.24) that "Passion is better than ignorance because it can lead to realization of the Absolute Truth." In this verse Suta speaks about which type of worship produces the ultimate benefit, and his conclusion is that one can only achieve the best result by worshipping Lord Visnu.
" O beautiful lady, one should know that the Visnu, Naradiya, Bhagavata, Garuda, Padma and Varaha are all in the mode of goodness. The Brahmanda, Brahma-vaivarta, Markandeya, Bhavisya, Vamana and Brahma are in the mode of passion. The Matsya, Kurma, Linga, Siva, Skanda and Agni are in the mode of ignorance."
Yes, The Shiv purana is one of the 18 principle puranas. It is one of the 6 puranas that glorify Lord Shiva to be supreme. However the Shiva purana is not the uttama siddhanta. The puranas are divided into 18 and are catogorized as sattva, rajas and tamas.
However, if that is the case, then certain sections of the Vedas must also be considered to be pauruseya-vakya since they have names like Katha Upanisad, Aitareya Upanisad (Katha and Aitareya being names of sages).
Thank u 4 ur msg sorry 4 replying late. I will try my best 2 reply promptly. Let me try 2 give a point by point analysis.
Yes, I agree, that is only natural. Its human nature 2 think my path is best because I am in it & therefore the most bonafide. Leaving that aside though I will point out from the vedic point of view of how to determine the proper conclusion of vedic siddhanta and what constitutes this conclusion
The Gaudiya 'sampradaya' is insulting Vedic dharma. I have been to Iskcon satsangs and listened to their 'swamis'. I stopped going soon after, when I read prabhupada's translations and realized that this was fanatacism and manipulation of scripture. Amazing how the acintyavadis say the Lord is inconceivable and yet force their concept of God down other peoples throat . Not a single verse conclusively shows Nirguna God as an 'emission' from Krishna. This is just propaganda. OM
The vedas r eternel & apurushaya is something all sampradayas of vedic culture agree with. Even the Sankaracarya sampradaya.They constitute the means of receiving knowledge about the Absolute Truth. Also its interesting that you mentioned the bhagavad gita as part of the vedas, which is of course is true, however the bhagavad gita ultimatly rejects the Karma kanda section. E.g gita 2.43 and 2.46. The upasana viddhi section of the vedas supercede the karma kanda section.
From the sruti statements it is clear that the puranas r part of the Vedas & originate from the same source as the Vedas, namely the Supreme Lord Himself. V may argue that since the Puranas have names such as Skanda, Agni, Markandeya etc. they must have been composed by those personalities, therefore they r not eternal & thus cannot be apauruseya
pancangam ca puranam syad akhyanam itarat smrtamsattvikesu ca kalpesu mahatmyam adhikam hareh rajasesu ca mahatmyam adhikam brahmano viduhtadvad agnes ca mahatmyam tamasesu sivasya ca sankirnesu sarasvatyah pitrnam ca nigadyate
" A Purana consists of 5 elements, as opposed to an Akhyana. The sattvika Puranas glorify Hari; the rajasika Puranas glorify Brahma, & the tamasika Puranas glorify Siva & Agni
The sattvika Puranas recommend the worship of Visnu / Krsna, whereas the rajasika and tamasika Puranas advocate the worship of minor deities and therefore do not lead the aspirant towards the Absolute Truth.
Each individual is influenced by the three gunas. The point is to overcome all three. Not lecture to others that he is reading such and such purana and therefore he/she is in this guna or that guna. There are no 'minor' deities. Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are all aspects of the Absolute Truth. In order to attain the Absolute, one must transcend these three gunas, which is clear that we haven't.
Anirvacaniya deals with categorisation of maya and not with ability to conceive. Oneness and difference are conceivable (not by material senses but by other means, which is the point). Otherwise, the whole purpose of liberation is void.
Attacking Puranas is typical 4 nastikas. Puranas r accepted by sruti. Mahabharat adi parva 1.267 & manu smahita: Ithihasa purnabhyam vedam samupabrhayat "one must compliment one's study of the vedas with the ithihasas and puranas. Atharva Veda 11.7.24-15.6.10-12 Gopatha Brahmana Purva 2.10 Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanishad 7.1.4 and Madhaydina brhad aranyaka upanishad 2.4.10 which are sruti sastras also state that.
Hey Haridham - Sri La prabhu pada (&his guru) has changed all that. With ISKCON ,eventhough it is not strictly proselytization and conversion activity, many miilions of people all around the world are embracing ISKCON voluntarily,once they are made known about the greatness and supremely noble philosophy ,scientifically more truthful ideas. This is renewal of the DHARMA which was handed down to the HUMANITY.For 1000yrs ISLAM&christianity destroyed world cultures and civilizations with impunity.
Iskcon is presenting the authentic version of vedic culture, basically if anything orthodox hinduism without the hodge podge that is prevelant that is infused with todays hinduism. Iskcon is part of the brahma madhva gaudiya sampradaya and presents vedic culture as it is as it is the original aspect of vedic culture. Its not important to be hindu, muslim or christian, its more important to establish a relationship with Krsna.
Hey Haridham- Again - there is no need to assert or be rigid. SANATANA DHARMA (HINDU DHARMA ) is not a dogma. It is the most tolerant on this earth. It is not a religion as you define the ISLAM,christian,judaism( Abrahamic ) where you need one prophet,one book and one God.proselytization&conversion is their main mission .SANATAN DHARMA is not for proselytization and conversion.Actually some sections of SANATANAVADIS are averse for convertion.This is why SANATAN DHARMA is destined to be week&die
Its not regarding being assertive or rigid but rather keeping the principles in tact. Sanatan dharma is not a free 4 all anything goes in which people mistake 4 being tolerant but rather is about stability through guru, sadhu sastra. Vedic culture gives a vast array of apportunity for anyone as vedic culture is 4 everyone. Sanatan means eternel, dharma means constitutional nature. Nobody converts, everyone is an eternal spirit soul already. So no question of something eternel dying.
I am a former agnostic &Ex.communist . Now, with unflinching belief in SANATANA DHARMA ( now referred yo as Harekrishna -ISKCON movement ). The standard sxriptures are BHAGAVADGEETA ,VEDAS,UPANISHADS, PURANAS ,ITHIHAAS - same for all. Nodifference . It is perfectly acceptable to me. I donot have any problem - SRIKRISHNA as supreme God . With time and for variety of reasons people develop affinity towards one manifestation -SANATANA DHARMA is such vast,expansive, all inclusive concept
The scriptures you mention are same yet different. They have a purpose in elevating to the ultimate goal, and the ultimate goal is Krsna. We have to remember Krsna is the source of all other vishnua tattva manifistations
Hey Haridam,i would just like to say yor doing a good job here preaching. My param guru-deva, Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja; whom preached very boldly all over India once said that, 'you can tell how well your preaching is doing by how many court cases you have against you.' So keep up the good work.
Hey swami s - there is absolutely no need to criticize Hindu dharma or ISKCON. This is all uncalled for and unseemly. Because you are not sages,scholars or well versed in SANATANA DHARMA and it's philosophy. It takes decades to understand and espouse the essence of this supremely noble philosophy,principles and values,ethos. The words both "HINDU " and RELIGION" were imposed or thrust on by SANATANA DHARMA by foreigners - Moslems,christians and western writers ,ofcourse gained acceptence
Vedic culture is understood through devotion coming in the line of devotees who are devoted to Lord Krsna. Sanatan Dharma through sabda pramana continues and concludes with the fact that Krsna is supreme. It is not neccecary to take decades but proper understanding comes through guru, sadhu and sastra via a bonafide parampara from a bonafide sampradaya as is propounded by all the great and bonafide sages in sanatan dharma
Hey ! swamis please stop this un seemly,uncalled for contraversy about the Supreme Godhead. Once you accept the 3 attributes of the God as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent , then the there is no scope for any argument - That is God , a supreme lord can appear or manifest in any form,any place and at any time depending on the situation,circumstances and need . It is like division of labour . scores of examples can be given. analogy is the human body which functions with the he
Contraversies exist due to human nature. Our understanding whateever it is if it is not based on proper authority will result in an improper conclusion. Yes, the supreme lord can manifest any form doesnt mean whatever form we think to be supreme is supreme. The vedic point of view, based on the uttama siddhanta as presented by the greatest of sages, vyasadev in the srimad bhagavatam, it is concluded that Krsna is that supreme as is all aspects of Godhead. God(krsna) is 1 without a second.
Sorry if im hurting ani of your beliefs, but im tellin you the truth..im a hindu my self i use to worship sri krishan. BUT if you read the vedas deeply u will understand that there is a GOD beyond sri krishan, brahma and shiv.
Krishna came into this earth wheather u like it or not, this opposes yajur Ved. People tried explainin vedas can conclude Krishna is god like brahma nd ved vyas, however these are all conclusions. It is NOT authentic then the Vedas
Srila Vyasadev who composed all the vedas including the 4 vedas but was still wasnt satisfied as he didnt present the essence of the vedas but rather just the karma kanda section of the vedas. He wanted to present the essence of the vedas and thats the upasana viddhi section, thus he composed the srimad bhagavatam which supercedes the yajur veda. The key thing is that you havent understood the yajur veda as I mentioned you need a bonafide guru from a bonafide sampradaya. T
Whenever there is inconsistency of Vedic literature and puranas, the followers of different Gods ascribe the purana they follow to be the greatest and their own sampradaya to be 'bonafide'...whereas, the essence of Vedic religion and philosophy are the Vedas (ie the karma kanda, upanishads) and scriptures that agree with them ( Yoga Vashishta, Brahma Sutra, Bhagavad Gita). Puranic Literature are not accepted as Vedic as they are biased and have been edited by humans..
asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama
vedotharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina
"O Maitreya, the Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas as well as the Itihasas and the Puranas all manifest from the breathing of the Lord." (Madhyandina-sruti, Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 2.4.10)
again, only scriptures that agree with the Upanishads, MahaBharatam, Yoga Vashishta, Brahmanas, Ramayana, Brahma Sutra etc. are considered Vedic. My point is that Extant puranas are subject to editing by uninitiated since they were meant to be available to the unitiated. Please provide reference from above mentioned texts. They are more than enough.
"Anirvacaniya deals with categorisation of maya and not with ability to conceive. Oneness and• difference are conceivable (not by material senses but by other means, which is the point). Otherwise, the whole purpose of liberation is void"
So does this mean you understand and accept GV conclusion now?
See its not that the yajur veda and the gita are conflicting, rather they both discuss different topics. See Krsna is not mentioned in the karma kanda section of the vedas, but he is finally revealed in the upasana viddhi section of the vedas. Although there are many upanishads which mention Lord Krsna's lilas which are transcendental and difficult to understand by many. Krsna is never born like you and me through seminal discharge, rather he is eternelly resideing in goloka
why then don't you follow Shiv Puran? It was also authored by Vyasa and claims Shiva to be Supreme God? The Saiva Siddhanta also claims to come down from God and views Krishna as a part of Shiva, similarly the Shaktas...To recognise who the true Lord within and outside of the Self is...one must follow guru who will wipe away Maya and reveal the inner Self according to aformentioned Scripture.
evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan
"In this way, all Vedas were manifested along with Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas & Puranas." (Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)
nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah
"Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama & Atharva r names of the 4 Vedas. Itihasas & Puranas r de 5th Veda." (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)
In vedas, the vedas itself Krishna is not known to be GOD. The description of GOD is opposing gita as it says in yajur Ved that GOD is not born, god does not take human form. However you cannot say krishna wasnt born or he didnt come to earth.Krishna took bodily form for LILA for his devotees
Sorry for taking so long to reply. Now first in order to understand the vedas, one must understand it from a bonafide Guru who is a bonafide authority coming from a bonafide parampara coming from a bonafide sampradaya. Most people dont understand the vedas without that proper guidence and thus come to an incorrect conclusion. The conclusion of the vedas is the Srimad Bhagavatam which is further explanation of Lord Krsna which were mentioned in the gita.
By the way...doesn't Iskcon claim to be from Madhva sampradaya although the Madhvas deny it? There is no record of any Madhevendra Puri or Isvara puri as disciple of Vyasa Tirtha ... besides the fact that Iskcon rejects the Madhva philosophy and also that Caitanya took Ekadandi Sanyaas despite being initiated into vaishnavism and that the only records of him we have are from his followers.
sa brhatim disam anu vyacalat tam itihasas ca puranam ca gathas ca itihasasya ca sa vai puranasya ca gathanam ca narasamsinam ca priyam dhama bhavati ya evam veda
"He approached the brhati meter, and thus the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the beloved abode of the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis." (Atharva Veda 15.6.1012)
When he appeared on the planet to perform lilas, these were the same eternel lilas that he was performing in goloka. When he appeared as the child of vasudev and devaki, he first entered the mind of vasudev and then entered devakis womb in his original form to perform vatsalya rasa. There is nothing above krsna. Actually Brahman is actually Krsna but Krsna infact is the source of Brahman. Nobody is above Lord Krsna. This is the conclusion of the vedas, mainly the srimad bhagavatam
Inhis Krishnashtakam he also glorifies Sri Krishna. In his medium sizedbook Prabodha-sudhakar, Sri Sankaracharya rather goes on to glorifyand describe the midday pastimes of Sri Krishna during cow-herding inthe forest of Vrndavan. Not only that in the Gita Mahatmaya he delcares Lord Krsna to be Supreme and the gita to be the only sastra to be read.
..and after reading some of the many comments below, its really amazing how some people just can`t stand the fact that Krishna is the Supreme.
But I`m not surprised, even at the time when Krishna was here on earth , many persons tried to kill Krishna and take the position as "God" themself. Hare Krishna!
Yes true, I guess when we are interacting with the 3 modes of material nature then its difficult to understand lord Krsna and his actual position. Thats why Guru, Sadhu and sastra are needed.
Yeah true the word hindu is never mentioned in the sastra and definatly not the gita. ITs funny i heard another definition of the word "hindu" this week, probably the 1000th and i guess thats what happens when we dont have guru, sadhu and sastra.
Worshipin the ultimate reailry is the true path. In our Shahstar Brahma was created by God, he is the creation and he can make mistakes, as you know he made mistakes with krishna with cows story. this shows that brahma can make mistakes and we should not lissen or believe in him or what he says as he can make mistakes.
Yes, worshiping the ultimate reality is the true path, however what is the ultimate reality? It is declared in the gita that Lord Krsna is the ultimate reality and the absolute truth. This Lila between Lord Brahma and Lord Krsna was inacted inorder to show us that Krsna is the supreme personality of Godhead. The ultimate reality. There is a similar incident between Lord Krsna and Indra. So ultimatly one must understand that Krsna is uttamapurusha.
Jai sri krishna, In n the vedic times, vishnu or krishna wer not worshipped. Visnu is considered not as important in the Vedas, only a few hymms are dedicated to him. In the Vedic times..Some use to worship Fire ,Wind Etc and some use to Worship Brahman, the ultimate reailty.
In actuality in vedic times the highest form of worship was to lord Vishnu. This is mentioned in the sastras. However due to the fact that most people r materialy motivated most of the sastras deal with karma kanda where agni, vayu, chanda etc r given higher importance. So Lord Vishnu/Krsna werent worshiped by those in the karma marg, however in the upasana viddhi, which lead to bhagavad viddhi. The conclusion of the vedas is the srimad bhagavatam where it is revealed that Krsna is the supreme.
Haridham and Zeuspitar - both LORD VISHNU and LORD KRISHNA are same. Please join hands to tackle DK bigots like princegoutham, whatmakesulaugh and Bhisman - the 3 of them. They are offensive creatures.
yes, Lord Krsna and Lord Vishnu are the same.However Lord Krsna is the original source of Lord Vishnu but the are both the same person in a different vishnu tattva form. The thing is that i have debated against these guys, they have no scriptural knowledge nor are they perticularly intelligent. It is ultimatly a waste of time.
Haridham - are you aware one Website has been created by some demons and its Under Youtube and called as Monkeydham. It has your Photo but all distorted facts and also offensive links showing u as monkey. Any idea who has done this ? Please have a look.
Yes, I am aware of monkeydham, a channel which was created in my honor. These are so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me. I feel quite honoured actually. It shows that what I am doing is working. As the saying goes, "immitation is the sincerest form of flattery" They claim to be hindu and they stated hinduism is about tolarance, acceptence, peace etc and then they show their true colors. I dont mind.
My friend,in all due respect,you shouldnt be saying..."so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me." Your group REALLY doesnt know full Vedic culture and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif. I personally have given you qoutes and etc. in my debates with you.
"My friend,in all due respect,you shouldnt be saying..."so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me."
I disagree. The context in which i said that statement still holds true. Those who coudnt debate me and dont know about actual vedic culture would make fun of me instead of disagreeing or debating.
ALthough I know Indians from India who are also Krishna devotess who have told me that Prabuphad had to water down alot of what he brought to the West since most Westerners would not be able to do all the rituals nor did some rituals apply to them.
In actuality Prabhupad watered down the rituals because that was not the yuga dharma. In kaliyuga the highest process is to harinam sankirtan and not focus to much on the rituals presented in the karma kanda section of the vedas. The Hare Krsna Mahamantra is not subject to the rules and regulations of the karma kanda as it is pure in itself, other mantras were meant for brahmanas and one had to purify oneself before a mantra could be chanted, however the hk mantra is the purifier initself.
there also are references of debates in the commentaries of Shankara wherein the efficacy of rites and rituals are doubted even though the shastras advise many rituals. Shankara does not write however as a devotee of Krishna...He did write about Govinda but this was from the perspective of Advaita.
No. He's clearly a devotee. His devotional poems don't leave anydoubt. Also, in his Sariraka Bhasya he supports eternal differencebetween jiva and Brahman. And when he appeared at the bedside of hisdying mother, she rejected advaita and so he told her about Vaikuntha.
The story about his rejection of Advaita was apparently done to sooth his dying mother who could not follow the intellectual rigor needed in order to grasp the Advaita doctrine. He then resorted to bhakti and from that standpoint he composed hymns to both Shiva and Vishnu to sooth his mother...But the bulk of his works after this were Advaita in content.
his mother was actually intelligent since she knew that at her deathbed advaita is not all in all & woudnt give her solace (and even before). Thus she was interested only in 'BhajaGovindam'. I understand that the bulk of his work was advaita but that was due to kala, patra desha, he reestablished the vedas but in a manner that those who were influenced by buddhism can grasp it. After him Ramanujacarya, madhvacarya nimbarka, vishnu swami & caitanya mahaprabhu reestablished the dvaita siddhanta.
I guess I take issue with your conclusion that tries to establish him as a link with the later Dvaitists since I do not see any attempts of this in his Advaita works...at times he even mentions that he does not like Dvaitic philosophy.
If Sri Sankaracharya never declared from his own mouth who he is that doesn't prove that He is not Lord Siva(he often does state shivoham), if the bonafide scriptures like puranas (compiled by Sri Vedavyasa who is also thecompiler of the four vedas) have stated so.
Now in actuality Sankaracarya is a grt devotee of Lord Vishnu, he was actually lord shiva who came under the order of whom he is devoted to, lord vishnu. In the padma purana and other sastras(as I mentioned) the secret behind Sri Adi Sankacarayas propogation is revealed. It is to actually only for those in perticular consciousness that the advaita philosophy is meant for.
Granted that the puranas refer to him as Lord Shiva but did he himself make that claim for himself? In what I have studied by him thusfar, I have never read where he makes the identification Prabhu. so this makes me a little suspicious of Puranas as Shruti but rather take Shankara's own writings as evidence of any claims he may have made...and I would probably venture to say that both Bhakti and Jnani appeal to a different personality/consciousness.
Great personalities never declare from their own mouth who they r. Krishna is an exceptional case. Sri Krishna declareshimself 2 b the summum bonum in B.G. Even other avatars don't declare their supremacy from theirown mouth.generally,the great personalities including sages, rishis, munis, devatas & even most of the avatars never declaretheir supremacy & exalted position from their own mouths.
Sri Sankaracharya has elaborately refuted the conception of Buddhists & Jainists in his Sariraka-mimamsa-bhashya commentary toBrahma-sutras. In his Govindashtakam Sri sankaracharya glorifies the supremacy ofSri Krishna by saying: satyam jnanam anantam etc. In hisCarpat-panjarika stotram he says: govindam bhaja mudha mate etc.
"Your group REALLY doesnt know full Vedic culture and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif"
That is merely your opinion which is baseless and of no pramana.
"and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif"
Thats ok, you and I have been debating for a while and you misunderstand and point out things based on your misunderstandings. "I personally have given you qoutes and etc. in my debates with you"
Yes, however they were as always quite insufficiant.
haridham, I am sorry, I am totally lost in so many comments you have added. You entered some 50 comments in 2 days. Its better to write entire thing in one or two pages, upload in some website and send the link. That will same time. Yesterday, I responded to few comments randomly.
Well, all my comments are there, i suggest you go backwards from the first one i sent today or the other day and then it will make sense. What I am presenting here is for public debate as that is the best way others can get an understanding.
"Whats in a name? Name comes from language and language is man made? GOD understand language of bhakti and love, it does not matter what you call him/her"
Krsna's name and his form are non different. Krsna always has had a name. Languages and name come from Krsna. Yes, bhakti means to surrender unto Krsna. That is what Krsna states in the gita. Bhagavad Gita 18:66. Check it out for yourself.
314159265352 I hope you read my reply to you and read it thoroughly as it will clear any misconceptions that you have. Now these will be in many parts so read the whole thing before you chose to reply.
Krsna never tells arjuna to be hindu, he tells arjuna to give up such religions and surrender unto him. Infact the word hindu or the current form of hinduism is never mentioned in any vedic litature
Ofcourse the reason is because we are preaching everything that Lord Krsna wants us to preach. We are part of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. One of the 4 principle sampradayas that iskcon gets its teachings from. We dot make things up. These teachings are based on the conclusion of the vedas has been established by Lord Krsna himself. This is confirmed in the padma purana in the following.
chose Madhvacarya to represent his disciplic succession. In the same way
Laksmi-devi chose Ramanujacarya, Lord Siva chose Visnu Svami, and the four
Kumaras chose Nimbaditya."
Are you saying that these sampradayas which have been established by Lord Krsna over 5 thousand years ago are doing the wrong thing? Are they teaching the wrong thing? Krsna doesnt think so! Lord Shiva doesnt think so. Lord Brahma Doesnt think So. Mother Laxmi Doesnt think so.
See the above (gita 7.23) lord Krsna has explained that those who worship the devas are less intelligent and the results of that worship is temperary(antavat) not sanatan(eternel)
Also starting from gita 9.20 where he gives arjuna the understanding of what happens when you follow the karma kanda section of the vedas. Whatever you get is temperary. He also confirms that those who worship other gods(devas) worship krsna but in the wrong way. 9.23 Now the following is a key verse in the 9th chapter, 25th verse
Now Krsna also explains what happens to one who is foolish, and their knowledge is stolen by illusion. Gita 7.15
na māḿ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraḿ bhāvam āśritāḥ
Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.
We never stated that what others were following was wrong. We are simply stating as per the conclusion of sage vyas that Krsna is the supreme. It was lord Krsna who taught this science to lord brahma who taught it to Sri vyasadev, who taught it down the line to others. for example here.
Iskcon is presenting a long lineage of culture from thousands of years ago. V r not inventing anything new. I also presented how iskcons teaching would spread all over the world. It is meant to happen.
Now Prameya Ratnavali (v.7) confirms the following. This will be divided in parts.
sri krsna brahma devarsi, badarayana samjnakansri madhva sri padmanabha, sriman nrhari madhavanaksobhya jaya-tirtha sri, jnanasindhu dayanidhisri vidyanidhi rajendra, jayadharma kramadvayam
purusottama brahmanya, vyasa-tirthams ca samstumahtato laksmipatim sriman, madhavendran ca bhaktitahtac-chisyan srisvaradvaita, nityanandan-jagat-gurundevam-isvara-sisyam-sri, caitanyan ca bhajamah
Here are more of those who agree with what iskcon is doing. Sridhara Swami Sukadeva Goswami BhagavatPrasad Giridharlal Goswami Jiva Goswami Vamsidhara Viraraghava Acarya (Sri samapradaya) Visvanatha Cakravarti
Vijayadwaja (Madhva sampradaya)Yadavarya
By the way none of the above were in iskcon.
Also if you think that iskcon is still wrong then here is evidence from the bhagavad Gita as spoken by Arjuna. This will continued in the following.
There are tones from other sastras as well which I will give you but this is just the basics. This is from Sri ARjuna and will be continued in the next messege.
See Sri Arjuna even confirms this. Narada Muni also confirms this, Asita also confirms this, Devala also confirms this and ofcourse as i mentioned Vyasadev also confirms this. Are all of these great personality narrow minded? Think about it. That is the conclusion of these great beings and it is my conclusion and it is Lord Krsna's conclusion.
314159265352 I hope you now have a clearer picture of what Iskcon is doing and how it is presenting real vedic culture. What it was before it got currupted.
ISKON is a circus like organisation. it was initially established with a noble idea to spread the krisha consiousness. but it ruined itself. mere dressing like middle aged saints like Meerabhai,Tukaram,Chaitanya prabhu will not make these people equal to them. Those saints didn't write books with silly titles like 'BhagavadGita As It IS' as srila prabhupada did. ISKON people don't know anything about Vedas. ISKON today is just an altered form of christianity.
Iskcon is part of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. It is still spreading Krsna consciousness, check out russia, china and several other places. I dont know where you get the idea that it ruined itself, it is still sucessful. I dont know who is dressing like middle aged saints. You obviously dont know what a saint is. Srila prabhupads Gita is accepted by Sri, Rudra, and kumara sampradayas. Iskcon understands the essence of the vedas. Iskcon is the essence of vedic culture.
Trojanhorsse143, iskcon is doing great service to the world. They have food for life programs, they help people off drugs, they change people lives. I think Hinduism is a circus. Iskcon is the only good thing about the hinduism.
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.
The thing is Lord Krishna said .."I"..he didn't said "I Krishna".
All throughout the gita it is mentioned the words "Sri Bhagavan Uvacha" Not "Sri Brahman Uvacha" Lord Krsna even states that people who think that he was impersonal before are less intelligent. By the way your link is misinterpreted. Let me prove to you that Krsna is the source of all incarnations.
"How can you say that the link is misinterpreted and yours is correct??"
Very easily. Who translated those scriptures? What is their sampradaya? What guna is their sampradaya? Who else agrees with their translations in other sampradayas. Our translation is from the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Where is that translation from?
More over in the Yagya of Yudhisthir...Lord Krishna served the saints, he took their left overs, he washed their feet...so that means Krishna is less then saints??
You havent understood the lila between Yudhisthir and Lord Krsna. Lord Krsna serves his devotees. Just as he served ARjuna by becoming his chariot driver, just as he chose to bound up by the rope of mother Yashoda. Just as he chose to put his fathers shoes on his head, all that to please his devotees and to show us how he loves the devotees. Only a real devotee can understand Krsna.
yeah so that means the Truth can't be lowered or Higher.....eternal Truth remains the same and can't be compared...it can take any form for you ..it can be Krishna it can be Ram or it can be any sage ..depending upon what is needed
The truth is not an it. The truth is Lord Krsna. Lord Krsna is the absolute truth from whom everything enamates. Krsna is the source of everything material and spiritual. He comes sometimes by himself in his original form as Lord Krsna and sometimes as other avatars and sometimes sends saktyavesh avatars who are all mentioned in the sastras.
Saying KRISHNA is the only GOD, is truth, but IT IS NOT COMPLETE TRUTH.
Anyone saying that Krishna is only god, does not essense of Hinduism. According to Hinduism, there is only ONE GOD (Brahman), who can appear in form or in formless, who is so vast and superior, that we cannot understand its real nature.
Krishna, was considered as sampoorna avatar. According to Hinduism (even Gita), we can worship GOD in any form of our choice and GOD comes ot us in that very form.
Lord Krsna is the absolute truth. This is confirmed in th gita. Again the word hindu or the current form of hinduism is never mentioned in any vedic literature. Brahman is just one aspect of God. Krsna is the source of brahman gita 14:27. You are claiming that Krsna is considered a sampoorna avatar, so first give me a defition of sampoorna avatar and then show me where is this stated. WHich sastra? What is the guna of that sastra? Who translated it? What sampradaya? Etc.
I agree with what you are saying. Only disagreement is that you are saying that only Krishna is GOD. I am saying that there is one GOD (Brahman) and it can be called as Krishna or any other name with SAME results. Even in Gita, Krishna said that He appears in front of devotees in the form in which they worship. GITA is very very old document. Do you think only ISKON was able to properly understand that?
I will try to provide references when I get chance.
Krsna IS the only supreme God, the source of Brahman.(gita 14.27) There r 3 aspects of God, Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, S.B.1.2.11. Thinking that Ganesh, Durga etc are equal 2 Krsna is incorrect. Iskcon is part of the brahma madhva gaudiya sampradaya which comes from Lord Krsna, so our understanding of the gita is accurate. There r 3 other sampradayas Sri,Rudra,Kumara who also agree with us & they r eternel sampradayas started under the direction of Lord Krsna. V all cant be wrong right?
Kindly read the entire chapter. The subject-matter dealt with is attaining Brahman, even prabhupada's translation finally admits that 'reaching' Brahman is the Ultimate Happiness (14.27) 'sukhasya aikantikasya ca'. Also, 'pratishta' can mean basis, foundation, position, abode, reputation, fame etc. In either case, Krishna indicates His equality with Brahman, which by the way, is confirmed in your 2nd ref. Brahma ITI, Paramatma ITI, Bhagavan ITI sabdyate. Nowhere is the mention of hierarchy. OM
As regards the mortal composition of the puranas and Itihasas, I beg to differ with this view, on the basis of the following references in the sruti-sastras
rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah
"The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens." (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)
In gita Lord Krsna explains that worship of other devatas is not equal to his worship, infact he gives the devotee the faith to worship the perticular devata but that doesnt mean they are worshiping krsna, in one sense they r but in the wrong way as the gita states. Lord Krsna states that the other gods or sages dont understand Krsna because he(Krsna)is their source, if they were all one why cant they understand Krsna? Iskcon comes in the line of Krsna so iskcon does understand gita properly.
Once someone realises that Krsna is the supreme one understands the essence of vedic culture. The conclusion of the gita is that one should surrender unto Lord Krsna(bhagavad gita 18:66) If we worship any form of God(Krsna) then yes, however if we worship demigods we go there and not to Krsna.
Let me tell you about incident of Goswami tulsidas:
He went to a Krishna temple. Priest said him to bow to Krishna. He said I will not bow to Krishna, my God is Lord Rama. I will bow to him only. He has bow and arrow in his hand. I will bow to him only.
Hearing this, the idol of krishna turned into idol of Lord Rama.
What is the moral of story? Is Lord Rama greater or Lord Krishna smaller? No!
He is SAME everywhere, he can't be compared and whatever his lover wish, he become that.
That is truly a great story, but i am sorry 2 say u have misunderstood the meaning or misinterpreted the story. Ram & Krsna ARE the same person. Krsna is the origin when he appears for various lilas he sometimes comes as Narshima, Varaha, Natsya etc but that is all krsna in diff forms. However these r vishnu tattva forms, we should not mistake vishnu tattva forms with jiva tattva, the devatas(except lord Shiva) r jiva tattva. This is mentioned in the Brahma Samhita 5.39 continued....
Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme
i dont know for me , per my interpretation krsna is the origonal form of god and there for it is only neccecary to worship and serve him, but i also have the buddha, quan yin, and ganesha on my alter, i dont worship them often but i just love seeing there faces along with krsnas every mourning, and nite
Well, Krsna is the original form of God per vedic uttama siddhanta. So when you worship Lord Krsna it automaticaly includes all the other devi devatas. Your alter should be set up so that Lord Krsna is primary. Just water the root my friend, just water the root.
ksna is the only one that useualy recieves worship, but seeing the others there gets me in the mood of servic, the buddha being an incarnation, quanyin being his devotee, and lord ganesha being a devotee, they have all at some point in my life been very merciful to me, so when one of them isnt there it feels like something is missing
I can definatly understand your sentiment, you can still have them on your alter but in the proper position. Lord Krsna and ganeshji shoudnt be on the same position. Try that if you like.
There are no primary, secondary in GOD. Everything is GOD and GOD is everything. India produced so many saints in the past and all of them were GOD relalizing. But no one said that krishna is the ONLY GOD.
According to you, Sri Ramakrishna was wrong! Raman Maharishi was wrong! Maa Anandamayi wrong! and who is right!!!! ISKON!
Do not misterprent beautiful Indian scriptues and 'Islamicize' them saying that only one GOD, only one name etc.
According to all bonafide authorities Lord Krsna is supreme, and that is the conclusion of vedic uttama siddhanta. If Ramakrishna was right then show me evidence from sastra how he was right. Iskcon is part of the brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya and the teachings are based on guru, sadhu and sastra, what are your teachings based on?
We are presenting vedic culture as presented before it was currupted. What is the measuring stick 4 right and wrong?
Did Lord Krishna in Shrimad Bhagwat Geeta said that he is supreme of all Bonafide??
He said from time and again I come to this earth to promote dharma. He can come in any form whether in the form of Lord Rama or in the heart of a saint.
Remember -- If something is greater then it's not Truth or 'atman' if it is smaller then also it is not 'Truth'. The eternal truth can't be greater or smaller than anybody. It's SAME in everyone. That is what Lord Krishna pointed out. Truth can't be compared.
These r prayers by Lord Brahma, who is a guna avatar of Lord Krsna.
Brahma Samhita 5.39
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaḿ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi
I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Kṛṣṇa and the different avatāras in the world in the forms of Rāma, Nṛsiḿha, Vāmana, etc., as His subjective portions.
"Did Lord Krishna in Shrimad Bhagwat Geeta said that he is supreme of all Bonafide??"
Yes!
Gita 10.8
ahaḿ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaḿ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māḿ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
Lord Krsna states here that he is the source of everything & the wise worship him.
Yeah so when he said ME..that means me..eternal conscious...which is everywhere n in every body. He came with in the body of Krishna and Ram. So HE is the same. Everyone is same and in HIM. So there is no one big or small. in HIS eyes
Thats foolish. When Krsna says he, he means He, there is no eternel consciousness within Krsna. This is clearly explained in the following verse of the gita.
brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.
What HE?? who is HE? is HE the body?? if that is the body of Krishna...then it went away?? so how can he be eternal?
Sure easily.
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.
Yeah so when Krishna and Ram are same then Ram is also the source of everything? No? When everything is same then why u comparing? When everything is tatva which has several names why u comparing?
The point you are missing is that Krishna was avatar of Supreme GOD (Brahman). When he said 'I' or 'Me', you literally interpret as Krishna and not as Supreme GOD.
Whats in a name? Name comes from language and language is man made? GOD understand language of bhakti and love, it does not matter what you call him/her.
Bonafide authorities are those that realize God through guru, sadhu and sastra and are authorized by God. Which is Krsna. Without the measuring stick of Guru, Sadhu and sastra we can be lost We have to figure out what is the measuring stick for who is spiritualy advanced and who isnt. The list i sent you previously explains who is bonafide and who isnt. Those like Narada Muni, Sage Vyasa etc are those authorised which and they are the ones who set the bar for God realization.
"GOD was, is and always be there. We have to just realize this and thats why it is called GOD Realization. GOD is right here, but because of our EGO and past karmas, we do not see.:
I absolutely agree. Krsna is eternel. He is the source of everything, everything including Brahman comes from him. It is due to false ego we think that God is limited to just Brahman. Brahman is another aspect of Krsna but beyond Brahman is Paramatma & Bhagavan. According to Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.11
The Absolute Truth is both subject and object, and there is no qualitative difference there. Therefore, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān are qualitatively one and the same. The same substance is realized as impersonal Brahman by the students of the Upaniṣads, as localized Paramātmā by the Hiraṇyagarbhas or the yogīs, and as Bhagavān by the devotees. In other words, Bhagavān, or the Personality of Godhead, is the last word of the Absolute Truth.
Lord Rama worshipped Lord Shiva, Krishna worshipped Shiva, Arjuna worshipped Shiva. Shiva is as supreme as Vishnu.
Raspect56 4 months ago
@Raspect56 This is a common misconception. When Lord Ram Worshiped Shiva, he did not do so because he thought Shiva was supreme but rather he was worshiping himself inside the heart of Lord Shiva to show those who worship Lord Shiva how 2 actually worship Lord Shiva. Lord Ram was honoring his own devotee. not that Shiva is as supreme as VIshnu but rather Vishnu/Krsna r the source of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva & Lord Krsna/Vishnu r same yet different. Like milk & Yogurt. Yogurt comes from Milk.
haridham 4 months ago
Just chant Hare Krishna,the recommended sacrifice for this age. Demigod worship IS NOT the method for this age.
ThinkofKrishna 1 year ago
The constant awareness that I am the same (Brahma) represents the most
dazzling flame. In this way when the bliss of Self-Realization sheds its bright
lustre, the error of duality, is dispersed and the infinite darkness of infatuation etc. which forms the family of Avidya disappears." but, "one is apt fall from path of wisdom soon...the ocean of transmigration, cannot be crossed without cultivating the same feeling of Rama as a servant cherishes towards his master"
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
...continued from above.... That was the evidence u requested & thus i presented it. Even if something happened with some of them, one can stick to SB. That's a safe and recommended way for Kali yuga
haridham 2 years ago
A reviler of Lord Hara and his own preceptor takes the form of a frog (after his death) and his birth in that form is repeated a thousand times. A reviler of the Brhmanas, after suffering tortures in a number of hells, is born on earth in the form of a crow. Those conceited souls who revile the gods and the Vedas are cast into the hell known as Raurava. They who delight in vilifying the saints are reborn as owls...
Ramcharitmanas Uttara khand.
Hari Om.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
continued from above... After all Vyasadev after
compiling all the vedas concluded with the bhagavatam. S.B.1.4.30 S.B 1.5.3 and 1.5.8-9 alsocheck Agni purana 272.6.7 and Matsya purana 53.20-22 and other such vedic sastras
haridham 2 years ago
indicates His equality with Brahman, which by the way, is confirmed in your 2nd ref. Brahma ITI, Paramatma ITI, Bhagavan ITI sabdyate. Nowhere is the mention of hierarchy. OM"
'Nowhere' is an absolute statement. See BG 15.15-20, Gopalatapani Upanisad
1.17, 2.23, 96, 107-116, SB 1.9.42, etc. The hierarchy is also understood by
their attributes and rasa (raso vai sah, Taittiriya Up. 2.7.1, raso'ham, BG
7.8). After all, Adi Sankara accepted Sri Krsna as the Supreme Person beyond
mukti.
haridham 2 years ago
BG 15.15-20 is actually reaffriming my statement. BG 15.18: Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person.
Again, there are Shaiva Upanishads which also expound Shiva being the ONLY Supreme parabrahmam.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
"Also see CC Adi 7.64 "Sometimes they ('Mayavadis') dress gorgeously and travel on the backs of elephants in processions, and thus• they are always puffed up, accepting themselves as jagad-gurus."And here is prabhupada's humility: 'The science of self-realisation' pg 17"
SP indirectly makes fun of them.
Btw, in advaita there's no place for a guru, what to speak of a jagat-guru.
haridham 2 years ago
Also, 14.3 says 'mahat-Brahma' or material(lyconditioned) Brahman. And He emphasises this point again in the next
verse. He does NOT speak of the impersonal Brahman.
Mahat-brahma is mahat-tattva. It's clear from the commentary.
haridham 2 years ago
Read Manu Smriti 1.4-1.12, MhBharat Santi Parva, Rig Veda X.121 too many to even mention.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
....Again, there are Shaiva• Upanishads which also expound Shiva being the ONLY Supreme parabrahmam."
Sakta texts say the same about Sakti. So?
People with 'god competition' mentality can't understand the oneness and difference among Visnu, Siva and Sakti. You have to understand why such siddhantas are presented. So for different gunas different siddhantas were presented by Sri Vyasadev which i presented in my previous messeges.
haridham 2 years ago
Thnx 4 all ur messages. Its obvious that u r all over the map. I am curious as 2 what exactly
ur goal is. First u challenge with among other things the Madhvas not accepting Iskcon ascoming from their lineage which was proven wrong and instead you disregard those arguments and continued to focus on
other misconceptions regarding the sruti sastras which was also proven contradictory even by the struti sastras
themselves.
haridham 2 years ago
"Again, a mistranslated verse and again taken out of contex Issue 1 - Why• is it that in the previous verse, Lord says, mama sadharmyam> agatah - attain My nature? That sounds like He is talking about Apotheosis.
My nature refers to attaining the same features as the Lord (sarupya mukti). SB 3.29.13, 9.4.67.
haridham 2 years ago
So now that there is no way to refute the statement, you are undermining its importance by providing a ref from purana? I wasn't talking about what the devotees want, I was talking about the correct translation of the verse. I am also for the Bhakti movement, but I am against the 'follow Bhakti principles only the way our sampradaya has laid out because all others are rascals' philosophy propounded by IskCON. Never heard Advaitists use such language. Perhaps because they are proper sidhhas
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
.....Never heard Advaitists use such language. Perhaps because they are proper sidhhas"
This is the same rhetoric of disguised envy over and over again.ISKCON doesn't attack other Vaisnavas. Some of them from time to time attack ISKCON though.Advaitists often attack ISKCON. So not everything is one,otherwise they wouldn't care.
haridham 2 years ago
when I read prabhupada's translations and realized that this was fanatacism and manipulation of scripture.
It may seem like that to a superficial reader.
haridham 2 years ago
Really?
How does one account for
(Bg17.4)? By your own logic (and Prabhupada's), Krishna is a 'demi-god' (whatever that means) since those in the mode of goodness worship 'demi-gods'. But your precious puranas say those in the mode of goodness worship Hari. You are refuting Lord Krishna only. After this, prabhupada in a lecture manipulated this and gave his own purport - those in the mode of passion worship demi-gods - contradicting Krishna Himself. wow.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
....... Ramcharitmanas Uttara khand." Hari Om.
Aren't you the same person who requested only sruti refs? Why are you quoting RCM
now and not only that out of context? GVs never revile Siva, rather the opposite.
Check S.B. 12.13.16. My presentation was based on the vedas with the proper understanding coming from the author of the vedas. Sri Vyasadev
haridham 2 years ago
There are no 'minor' deities. Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are all aspects of the Absolute Truth.• In order to attain the Absolute, one must transcend these three gunas, which is clear that we haven't"
These aspects are not on the same level. Unless that's understood, there's
no chance to understand more. In order to transcend these gunas one must ultimatly
come to the uttama siddhanta by surrendering to Lord Krsna/vishnu B.G 7.13 7.14 and S.B.1.2.23
haridham 2 years ago
Also see CC Adi 7.64 "Sometimes they ('Mayavadis') dress gorgeously and travel on the backs of elephants in processions, and thus they are always puffed up, accepting themselves as jagad-gurus."
And here is prabhupada's humility:
'The science of self-realisation' pg 17
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
15 refers to apihitam mukham, covered face. 16 says remove the rasmin, rays,to see rupam kalyana tamam, your most auspicious form. Iow, these texts are very clear. Abheda = qualitative oneness between jiva and isvara
haridham 2 years ago
The symptoms of a superficial reader are evident. The concept of sruti sastras are only vedic
is an idea presented by bias indologists. Now if weare arguing for the sake of arguing then there
is no point in our discussion
haridham 2 years ago
Sri Krsna has clearly expressed in Bhagavad-gita that goodness is superior to passion & ignorance. Similarly, Sri Suta Gosvami explains in the S.B (1.2.24) that "Passion is better than ignorance because it can lead to realization of the Absolute Truth." In this verse Suta speaks about which type of worship produces the ultimate benefit, and his conclusion is that one can only achieve the best result by worshipping Lord Visnu.
haridham 2 years ago
divisions of the eighteen Puranas is defined by Lord Siva to Uma in the Padma Purana (Uttara Khanda 236.18-21):
vaisnavanam naradiyam ca tatha bhagavatam subhamgarudam ca tatha padmam varaham subha-darsanesattvikani puranani vijneyani subhani vaibrahmandam brahma-vaivarta markandeyam tathaiva ca bhavisyam vamanam brahmam rajasani nibodha mematsyam kaurmam tatha laingam saivam skandam tathaiva ca agneyam ca sad etani tamasani nibodha me
haridham 2 years ago
" O beautiful lady, one should know that the Visnu, Naradiya, Bhagavata, Garuda, Padma and Varaha are all in the mode of goodness. The Brahmanda, Brahma-vaivarta, Markandeya, Bhavisya, Vamana and Brahma are in the mode of passion. The Matsya, Kurma, Linga, Siva, Skanda and Agni are in the mode of ignorance."
haridham 2 years ago
Yes, The Shiv purana is one of the 18 principle puranas. It is one of the 6 puranas that glorify Lord Shiva to be supreme. However the Shiva purana is not the uttama siddhanta. The puranas are divided into 18 and are catogorized as sattva, rajas and tamas.
haridham 2 years ago
However, if that is the case, then certain sections of the Vedas must also be considered to be pauruseya-vakya since they have names like Katha Upanisad, Aitareya Upanisad (Katha and Aitareya being names of sages).
haridham 2 years ago
Thank u 4 ur msg sorry 4 replying late. I will try my best 2 reply promptly. Let me try 2 give a point by point analysis.
Yes, I agree, that is only natural. Its human nature 2 think my path is best because I am in it & therefore the most bonafide. Leaving that aside though I will point out from the vedic point of view of how to determine the proper conclusion of vedic siddhanta and what constitutes this conclusion
haridham 2 years ago
Hari OM tat sat.
The Gaudiya 'sampradaya' is insulting Vedic dharma. I have been to Iskcon satsangs and listened to their 'swamis'. I stopped going soon after, when I read prabhupada's translations and realized that this was fanatacism and manipulation of scripture. Amazing how the acintyavadis say the Lord is inconceivable and yet force their concept of God down other peoples throat . Not a single verse conclusively shows Nirguna God as an 'emission' from Krishna. This is just propaganda. OM
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
The vedas r eternel & apurushaya is something all sampradayas of vedic culture agree with. Even the Sankaracarya sampradaya.They constitute the means of receiving knowledge about the Absolute Truth. Also its interesting that you mentioned the bhagavad gita as part of the vedas, which is of course is true, however the bhagavad gita ultimatly rejects the Karma kanda section. E.g gita 2.43 and 2.46. The upasana viddhi section of the vedas supercede the karma kanda section.
haridham 2 years ago
From the sruti statements it is clear that the puranas r part of the Vedas & originate from the same source as the Vedas, namely the Supreme Lord Himself. V may argue that since the Puranas have names such as Skanda, Agni, Markandeya etc. they must have been composed by those personalities, therefore they r not eternal & thus cannot be apauruseya
haridham 2 years ago
Matsya Purana (53.65, 68-69) states
pancangam ca puranam syad akhyanam itarat smrtamsattvikesu ca kalpesu mahatmyam adhikam hareh rajasesu ca mahatmyam adhikam brahmano viduhtadvad agnes ca mahatmyam tamasesu sivasya ca sankirnesu sarasvatyah pitrnam ca nigadyate
" A Purana consists of 5 elements, as opposed to an Akhyana. The sattvika Puranas glorify Hari; the rajasika Puranas glorify Brahma, & the tamasika Puranas glorify Siva & Agni
haridham 2 years ago
The sattvika Puranas recommend the worship of Visnu / Krsna, whereas the rajasika and tamasika Puranas advocate the worship of minor deities and therefore do not lead the aspirant towards the Absolute Truth.
haridham 2 years ago
Each individual is influenced by the three gunas. The point is to overcome all three. Not lecture to others that he is reading such and such purana and therefore he/she is in this guna or that guna. There are no 'minor' deities. Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are all aspects of the Absolute Truth. In order to attain the Absolute, one must transcend these three gunas, which is clear that we haven't.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
Amazing how the acintyavadis say the Lord is inconceivable and yet force their concept of God down other peoples throat .
The same accusation could be aimed at Sankarites with their anirvacaniya
concept. Ofcourse it appears that your intention is shown by the comments you have made and thus doing something you accuse others of doing.
haridham 2 years ago
Anirvacaniya deals with categorisation of maya and not with ability to conceive. Oneness and difference are conceivable (not by material senses but by other means, which is the point). Otherwise, the whole purpose of liberation is void.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
Now I wish to tell you that if this continues to go in the circular logic and you just want to argue
for the sake of arguing then I will not continue this anymore.
haridham 2 years ago
Attacking Puranas is typical 4 nastikas. Puranas r accepted by sruti. Mahabharat adi parva 1.267 & manu smahita: Ithihasa purnabhyam vedam samupabrhayat "one must compliment one's study of the vedas with the ithihasas and puranas. Atharva Veda 11.7.24-15.6.10-12 Gopatha Brahmana Purva 2.10 Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanishad 7.1.4 and Madhaydina brhad aranyaka upanishad 2.4.10 which are sruti sastras also state that.
haridham 2 years ago
Hey Haridham - Sri La prabhu pada (&his guru) has changed all that. With ISKCON ,eventhough it is not strictly proselytization and conversion activity, many miilions of people all around the world are embracing ISKCON voluntarily,once they are made known about the greatness and supremely noble philosophy ,scientifically more truthful ideas. This is renewal of the DHARMA which was handed down to the HUMANITY.For 1000yrs ISLAM&christianity destroyed world cultures and civilizations with impunity.
allembrace 2 years ago
Iskcon is presenting the authentic version of vedic culture, basically if anything orthodox hinduism without the hodge podge that is prevelant that is infused with todays hinduism. Iskcon is part of the brahma madhva gaudiya sampradaya and presents vedic culture as it is as it is the original aspect of vedic culture. Its not important to be hindu, muslim or christian, its more important to establish a relationship with Krsna.
haridham 2 years ago
Hey Haridham- Again - there is no need to assert or be rigid. SANATANA DHARMA (HINDU DHARMA ) is not a dogma. It is the most tolerant on this earth. It is not a religion as you define the ISLAM,christian,judaism( Abrahamic ) where you need one prophet,one book and one God.proselytization&conversion is their main mission .SANATAN DHARMA is not for proselytization and conversion.Actually some sections of SANATANAVADIS are averse for convertion.This is why SANATAN DHARMA is destined to be week&die
allembrace 2 years ago
Its not regarding being assertive or rigid but rather keeping the principles in tact. Sanatan dharma is not a free 4 all anything goes in which people mistake 4 being tolerant but rather is about stability through guru, sadhu sastra. Vedic culture gives a vast array of apportunity for anyone as vedic culture is 4 everyone. Sanatan means eternel, dharma means constitutional nature. Nobody converts, everyone is an eternal spirit soul already. So no question of something eternel dying.
haridham 2 years ago
I am a former agnostic &Ex.communist . Now, with unflinching belief in SANATANA DHARMA ( now referred yo as Harekrishna -ISKCON movement ). The standard sxriptures are BHAGAVADGEETA ,VEDAS,UPANISHADS, PURANAS ,ITHIHAAS - same for all. Nodifference . It is perfectly acceptable to me. I donot have any problem - SRIKRISHNA as supreme God . With time and for variety of reasons people develop affinity towards one manifestation -SANATANA DHARMA is such vast,expansive, all inclusive concept
allembrace 2 years ago
The scriptures you mention are same yet different. They have a purpose in elevating to the ultimate goal, and the ultimate goal is Krsna. We have to remember Krsna is the source of all other vishnua tattva manifistations
haridham 2 years ago
Hey Haridam,i would just like to say yor doing a good job here preaching. My param guru-deva, Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja; whom preached very boldly all over India once said that, 'you can tell how well your preaching is doing by how many court cases you have against you.' So keep up the good work.
paryan117 2 years ago
thanks
haridham 2 years ago
Hey swami s - there is absolutely no need to criticize Hindu dharma or ISKCON. This is all uncalled for and unseemly. Because you are not sages,scholars or well versed in SANATANA DHARMA and it's philosophy. It takes decades to understand and espouse the essence of this supremely noble philosophy,principles and values,ethos. The words both "HINDU " and RELIGION" were imposed or thrust on by SANATANA DHARMA by foreigners - Moslems,christians and western writers ,ofcourse gained acceptence
allembrace 2 years ago
Vedic culture is understood through devotion coming in the line of devotees who are devoted to Lord Krsna. Sanatan Dharma through sabda pramana continues and concludes with the fact that Krsna is supreme. It is not neccecary to take decades but proper understanding comes through guru, sadhu and sastra via a bonafide parampara from a bonafide sampradaya as is propounded by all the great and bonafide sages in sanatan dharma
haridham 2 years ago
Hey ! swamis please stop this un seemly,uncalled for contraversy about the Supreme Godhead. Once you accept the 3 attributes of the God as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent , then the there is no scope for any argument - That is God , a supreme lord can appear or manifest in any form,any place and at any time depending on the situation,circumstances and need . It is like division of labour . scores of examples can be given. analogy is the human body which functions with the he
allembrace 2 years ago
Contraversies exist due to human nature. Our understanding whateever it is if it is not based on proper authority will result in an improper conclusion. Yes, the supreme lord can manifest any form doesnt mean whatever form we think to be supreme is supreme. The vedic point of view, based on the uttama siddhanta as presented by the greatest of sages, vyasadev in the srimad bhagavatam, it is concluded that Krsna is that supreme as is all aspects of Godhead. God(krsna) is 1 without a second.
haridham 2 years ago
Sorry if im hurting ani of your beliefs, but im tellin you the truth..im a hindu my self i use to worship sri krishan. BUT if you read the vedas deeply u will understand that there is a GOD beyond sri krishan, brahma and shiv.
4PeaceWar 3 years ago
Krishna played wit gopis, nd played with balram.
Krishna came into this earth wheather u like it or not, this opposes yajur Ved. People tried explainin vedas can conclude Krishna is god like brahma nd ved vyas, however these are all conclusions. It is NOT authentic then the Vedas
4PeaceWar 3 years ago
Srila Vyasadev who composed all the vedas including the 4 vedas but was still wasnt satisfied as he didnt present the essence of the vedas but rather just the karma kanda section of the vedas. He wanted to present the essence of the vedas and thats the upasana viddhi section, thus he composed the srimad bhagavatam which supercedes the yajur veda. The key thing is that you havent understood the yajur veda as I mentioned you need a bonafide guru from a bonafide sampradaya. T
haridham 2 years ago
Whenever there is inconsistency of Vedic literature and puranas, the followers of different Gods ascribe the purana they follow to be the greatest and their own sampradaya to be 'bonafide'...whereas, the essence of Vedic religion and philosophy are the Vedas (ie the karma kanda, upanishads) and scriptures that agree with them ( Yoga Vashishta, Brahma Sutra, Bhagavad Gita). Puranic Literature are not accepted as Vedic as they are biased and have been edited by humans..
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama
vedotharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina
"O Maitreya, the Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas as well as the Itihasas and the Puranas all manifest from the breathing of the Lord." (Madhyandina-sruti, Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 2.4.10)
haridham 2 years ago
again, only scriptures that agree with the Upanishads, MahaBharatam, Yoga Vashishta, Brahmanas, Ramayana, Brahma Sutra etc. are considered Vedic. My point is that Extant puranas are subject to editing by uninitiated since they were meant to be available to the unitiated. Please provide reference from above mentioned texts. They are more than enough.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
The constant awareness that I am the same (Brahma) represents the mostdazzling flame. In this way when the bliss of Self-Realization
sheds its bright lustre, the error of duality, is dispersed and the infinite darkness of
infatuation etc.— which forms the family of Avidya —disappears." but, "one is apt fall from path• of wisdom soon.....etc
fall from advaita platform happens as per SB 10.2.32.
haridham 2 years ago
"Anirvacaniya deals with categorisation of maya and not with ability to conceive. Oneness and• difference are conceivable (not by material senses but by other means, which is the point). Otherwise, the whole purpose of liberation is void"
So does this mean you understand and accept GV conclusion now?
haridham 2 years ago
See its not that the yajur veda and the gita are conflicting, rather they both discuss different topics. See Krsna is not mentioned in the karma kanda section of the vedas, but he is finally revealed in the upasana viddhi section of the vedas. Although there are many upanishads which mention Lord Krsna's lilas which are transcendental and difficult to understand by many. Krsna is never born like you and me through seminal discharge, rather he is eternelly resideing in goloka
haridham 2 years ago
why then don't you follow Shiv Puran? It was also authored by Vyasa and claims Shiva to be Supreme God? The Saiva Siddhanta also claims to come down from God and views Krishna as a part of Shiva, similarly the Shaktas...To recognise who the true Lord within and outside of the Self is...one must follow guru who will wipe away Maya and reveal the inner Self according to aformentioned Scripture.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan
"In this way, all Vedas were manifested along with Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas & Puranas." (Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)
nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah
"Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama & Atharva r names of the 4 Vedas. Itihasas & Puranas r de 5th Veda." (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)
haridham 2 years ago
In vedas, the vedas itself Krishna is not known to be GOD. The description of GOD is opposing gita as it says in yajur Ved that GOD is not born, god does not take human form. However you cannot say krishna wasnt born or he didnt come to earth.Krishna took bodily form for LILA for his devotees
4PeaceWar 3 years ago
Sorry for taking so long to reply. Now first in order to understand the vedas, one must understand it from a bonafide Guru who is a bonafide authority coming from a bonafide parampara coming from a bonafide sampradaya. Most people dont understand the vedas without that proper guidence and thus come to an incorrect conclusion. The conclusion of the vedas is the Srimad Bhagavatam which is further explanation of Lord Krsna which were mentioned in the gita.
haridham 2 years ago
By the way...doesn't Iskcon claim to be from Madhva sampradaya although the Madhvas deny it? There is no record of any Madhevendra Puri or Isvara puri as disciple of Vyasa Tirtha ... besides the fact that Iskcon rejects the Madhva philosophy and also that Caitanya took Ekadandi Sanyaas despite being initiated into vaishnavism and that the only records of him we have are from his followers.
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
sa brhatim disam anu vyacalat tam itihasas ca puranam ca gathas ca itihasasya ca sa vai puranasya ca gathanam ca narasamsinam ca priyam dhama bhavati ya evam veda
"He approached the brhati meter, and thus the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the beloved abode of the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis." (Atharva Veda 15.6.1012)
haridham 2 years ago
When he appeared on the planet to perform lilas, these were the same eternel lilas that he was performing in goloka. When he appeared as the child of vasudev and devaki, he first entered the mind of vasudev and then entered devakis womb in his original form to perform vatsalya rasa. There is nothing above krsna. Actually Brahman is actually Krsna but Krsna infact is the source of Brahman. Nobody is above Lord Krsna. This is the conclusion of the vedas, mainly the srimad bhagavatam
haridham 2 years ago
hardam's videos are great. You dont understand.
thegift108 2 years ago
Inhis Krishnashtakam he also glorifies Sri Krishna. In his medium sizedbook Prabodha-sudhakar, Sri Sankaracharya rather goes on to glorifyand describe the midday pastimes of Sri Krishna during cow-herding inthe forest of Vrndavan. Not only that in the Gita Mahatmaya he delcares Lord Krsna to be Supreme and the gita to be the only sastra to be read.
haridham 3 years ago
..and after reading some of the many comments below, its really amazing how some people just can`t stand the fact that Krishna is the Supreme.
But I`m not surprised, even at the time when Krishna was here on earth , many persons tried to kill Krishna and take the position as "God" themself. Hare Krishna!
108pyramids 3 years ago
Yes true, I guess when we are interacting with the 3 modes of material nature then its difficult to understand lord Krsna and his actual position. Thats why Guru, Sadhu and sastra are needed.
haridham 3 years ago
Now..that was very clear. If a person claims to
be a "Hindu" (whatever that is) he/she must follow the "Bhagavad Gita as it is".
Thank you! Hare Krishna!
108pyramids 3 years ago
Yeah true the word hindu is never mentioned in the sastra and definatly not the gita. ITs funny i heard another definition of the word "hindu" this week, probably the 1000th and i guess thats what happens when we dont have guru, sadhu and sastra.
haridham 3 years ago
Worshipin the ultimate reailry is the true path. In our Shahstar Brahma was created by God, he is the creation and he can make mistakes, as you know he made mistakes with krishna with cows story. this shows that brahma can make mistakes and we should not lissen or believe in him or what he says as he can make mistakes.
4PeaceWar 3 years ago
Yes, worshiping the ultimate reality is the true path, however what is the ultimate reality? It is declared in the gita that Lord Krsna is the ultimate reality and the absolute truth. This Lila between Lord Brahma and Lord Krsna was inacted inorder to show us that Krsna is the supreme personality of Godhead. The ultimate reality. There is a similar incident between Lord Krsna and Indra. So ultimatly one must understand that Krsna is uttamapurusha.
haridham 3 years ago
Jai sri krishna, In n the vedic times, vishnu or krishna wer not worshipped. Visnu is considered not as important in the Vedas, only a few hymms are dedicated to him. In the Vedic times..Some use to worship Fire ,Wind Etc and some use to Worship Brahman, the ultimate reailty.
4PeaceWar 3 years ago
In actuality in vedic times the highest form of worship was to lord Vishnu. This is mentioned in the sastras. However due to the fact that most people r materialy motivated most of the sastras deal with karma kanda where agni, vayu, chanda etc r given higher importance. So Lord Vishnu/Krsna werent worshiped by those in the karma marg, however in the upasana viddhi, which lead to bhagavad viddhi. The conclusion of the vedas is the srimad bhagavatam where it is revealed that Krsna is the supreme.
haridham 3 years ago
Haridham and Zeuspitar - both LORD VISHNU and LORD KRISHNA are same. Please join hands to tackle DK bigots like princegoutham, whatmakesulaugh and Bhisman - the 3 of them. They are offensive creatures.
Haribol100 3 years ago
yes, Lord Krsna and Lord Vishnu are the same.However Lord Krsna is the original source of Lord Vishnu but the are both the same person in a different vishnu tattva form. The thing is that i have debated against these guys, they have no scriptural knowledge nor are they perticularly intelligent. It is ultimatly a waste of time.
haridham 3 years ago
Haridham - are you aware one Website has been created by some demons and its Under Youtube and called as Monkeydham. It has your Photo but all distorted facts and also offensive links showing u as monkey. Any idea who has done this ? Please have a look.
Haribol100 3 years ago
Yes, I am aware of monkeydham, a channel which was created in my honor. These are so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me. I feel quite honoured actually. It shows that what I am doing is working. As the saying goes, "immitation is the sincerest form of flattery" They claim to be hindu and they stated hinduism is about tolarance, acceptence, peace etc and then they show their true colors. I dont mind.
haridham 3 years ago
My friend,in all due respect,you shouldnt be saying..."so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me." Your group REALLY doesnt know full Vedic culture and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif. I personally have given you qoutes and etc. in my debates with you.
zeuspitar 3 years ago 2
"My friend,in all due respect,you shouldnt be saying..."so called hindus who have no clue about vedic culture and instead of debating me they decided to make fun of me."
I disagree. The context in which i said that statement still holds true. Those who coudnt debate me and dont know about actual vedic culture would make fun of me instead of disagreeing or debating.
haridham 3 years ago
ALthough I know Indians from India who are also Krishna devotess who have told me that Prabuphad had to water down alot of what he brought to the West since most Westerners would not be able to do all the rituals nor did some rituals apply to them.
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
In actuality Prabhupad watered down the rituals because that was not the yuga dharma. In kaliyuga the highest process is to harinam sankirtan and not focus to much on the rituals presented in the karma kanda section of the vedas. The Hare Krsna Mahamantra is not subject to the rules and regulations of the karma kanda as it is pure in itself, other mantras were meant for brahmanas and one had to purify oneself before a mantra could be chanted, however the hk mantra is the purifier initself.
haridham 3 years ago
there also are references of debates in the commentaries of Shankara wherein the efficacy of rites and rituals are doubted even though the shastras advise many rituals. Shankara does not write however as a devotee of Krishna...He did write about Govinda but this was from the perspective of Advaita.
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
No. He's clearly a devotee. His devotional poems don't leave anydoubt. Also, in his Sariraka Bhasya he supports eternal differencebetween jiva and Brahman. And when he appeared at the bedside of hisdying mother, she rejected advaita and so he told her about Vaikuntha.
haridham 3 years ago
I am not familiar with the Sariraka Bhasya...does it go by another name perhaps? also where is his rejection of Advaita recorded?
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
Sariraka bhasya (i.e. commentary) is well-known. Other name is simply Sankara Brahmasutra bhasya. He didn't write another one far as I know.
haridham 3 years ago
The story about his rejection of Advaita was apparently done to sooth his dying mother who could not follow the intellectual rigor needed in order to grasp the Advaita doctrine. He then resorted to bhakti and from that standpoint he composed hymns to both Shiva and Vishnu to sooth his mother...But the bulk of his works after this were Advaita in content.
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
his mother was actually intelligent since she knew that at her deathbed advaita is not all in all & woudnt give her solace (and even before). Thus she was interested only in 'BhajaGovindam'. I understand that the bulk of his work was advaita but that was due to kala, patra desha, he reestablished the vedas but in a manner that those who were influenced by buddhism can grasp it. After him Ramanujacarya, madhvacarya nimbarka, vishnu swami & caitanya mahaprabhu reestablished the dvaita siddhanta.
haridham 3 years ago
I guess I take issue with your conclusion that tries to establish him as a link with the later Dvaitists since I do not see any attempts of this in his Advaita works...at times he even mentions that he does not like Dvaitic philosophy.
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
By the way, kala patra desha means(kala=time patra=circumstance and desha=place.
So ultimatly it means time, place and circumstace.
Sorry I didnt present an english translation the first time.
haridham 3 years ago
If Sri Sankaracharya never declared from his own mouth who he is that doesn't prove that He is not Lord Siva(he often does state shivoham), if the bonafide scriptures like puranas (compiled by Sri Vedavyasa who is also thecompiler of the four vedas) have stated so.
haridham 3 years ago
Now in actuality Sankaracarya is a grt devotee of Lord Vishnu, he was actually lord shiva who came under the order of whom he is devoted to, lord vishnu. In the padma purana and other sastras(as I mentioned) the secret behind Sri Adi Sankacarayas propogation is revealed. It is to actually only for those in perticular consciousness that the advaita philosophy is meant for.
haridham 3 years ago
Granted that the puranas refer to him as Lord Shiva but did he himself make that claim for himself? In what I have studied by him thusfar, I have never read where he makes the identification Prabhu. so this makes me a little suspicious of Puranas as Shruti but rather take Shankara's own writings as evidence of any claims he may have made...and I would probably venture to say that both Bhakti and Jnani appeal to a different personality/consciousness.
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
Great personalities never declare from their own mouth who they r. Krishna is an exceptional case. Sri Krishna declareshimself 2 b the summum bonum in B.G. Even other avatars don't declare their supremacy from theirown mouth.generally,the great personalities including sages, rishis, munis, devatas & even most of the avatars never declaretheir supremacy & exalted position from their own mouths.
haridham 3 years ago
Sri Sankaracharya has elaborately refuted the conception of Buddhists & Jainists in his Sariraka-mimamsa-bhashya commentary toBrahma-sutras. In his Govindashtakam Sri sankaracharya glorifies the supremacy ofSri Krishna by saying: satyam jnanam anantam etc. In hisCarpat-panjarika stotram he says: govindam bhaja mudha mate etc.
haridham 3 years ago
"Your group REALLY doesnt know full Vedic culture and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif"
That is merely your opinion which is baseless and of no pramana.
"and I can point out certain points in your sect beleif"
Thats ok, you and I have been debating for a while and you misunderstand and point out things based on your misunderstandings. "I personally have given you qoutes and etc. in my debates with you"
Yes, however they were as always quite insufficiant.
haridham 3 years ago
Haridham, grat video. I keep coming back and enjoying the videos.More ok.
thegift108 3 years ago
Jai hare Krishna
savealllifes 3 years ago
jai Sri Krsna, Jai Real Sanatan dharma
haridham 3 years ago
haridham, I am sorry, I am totally lost in so many comments you have added. You entered some 50 comments in 2 days. Its better to write entire thing in one or two pages, upload in some website and send the link. That will same time. Yesterday, I responded to few comments randomly.
314159265352 3 years ago
Well, all my comments are there, i suggest you go backwards from the first one i sent today or the other day and then it will make sense. What I am presenting here is for public debate as that is the best way others can get an understanding.
haridham 3 years ago
"Whats in a name? Name comes from language and language is man made? GOD understand language of bhakti and love, it does not matter what you call him/her"
Krsna's name and his form are non different. Krsna always has had a name. Languages and name come from Krsna. Yes, bhakti means to surrender unto Krsna. That is what Krsna states in the gita. Bhagavad Gita 18:66. Check it out for yourself.
haridham 3 years ago
I and many other hindus love Krishna, his life, his leelas, his saying and most of all GITA.
But ISKCON is bringing bad name to krishna, and kind of discouraging others by preaching things in wrong way.
314159265352 3 years ago
314159265352 I hope you read my reply to you and read it thoroughly as it will clear any misconceptions that you have. Now these will be in many parts so read the whole thing before you chose to reply.
haridham 3 years ago
Krsna never tells arjuna to be hindu, he tells arjuna to give up such religions and surrender unto him. Infact the word hindu or the current form of hinduism is never mentioned in any vedic litature
haridham 3 years ago
Ofcourse the reason is because we are preaching everything that Lord Krsna wants us to preach. We are part of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. One of the 4 principle sampradayas that iskcon gets its teachings from. We dot make things up. These teachings are based on the conclusion of the vedas has been established by Lord Krsna himself. This is confirmed in the padma purana in the following.
haridham 3 years ago
Lord Brahma
chose Madhvacarya to represent his disciplic succession. In the same way
Laksmi-devi chose Ramanujacarya, Lord Siva chose Visnu Svami, and the four
Kumaras chose Nimbaditya."
Are you saying that these sampradayas which have been established by Lord Krsna over 5 thousand years ago are doing the wrong thing? Are they teaching the wrong thing? Krsna doesnt think so! Lord Shiva doesnt think so. Lord Brahma Doesnt think So. Mother Laxmi Doesnt think so.
haridham 3 years ago
See the above (gita 7.23) lord Krsna has explained that those who worship the devas are less intelligent and the results of that worship is temperary(antavat) not sanatan(eternel)
haridham 3 years ago
Also starting from gita 9.20 where he gives arjuna the understanding of what happens when you follow the karma kanda section of the vedas. Whatever you get is temperary. He also confirms that those who worship other gods(devas) worship krsna but in the wrong way. 9.23 Now the following is a key verse in the 9th chapter, 25th verse
haridham 3 years ago
Now Krsna also explains what happens to one who is foolish, and their knowledge is stolen by illusion. Gita 7.15
na māḿ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraḿ bhāvam āśritāḥ
Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.
haridham 3 years ago
We never stated that what others were following was wrong. We are simply stating as per the conclusion of sage vyas that Krsna is the supreme. It was lord Krsna who taught this science to lord brahma who taught it to Sri vyasadev, who taught it down the line to others. for example here.
Iskcon is presenting a long lineage of culture from thousands of years ago. V r not inventing anything new. I also presented how iskcons teaching would spread all over the world. It is meant to happen.
haridham 3 years ago
Now Prameya Ratnavali (v.7) confirms the following. This will be divided in parts.
sri krsna brahma devarsi, badarayana samjnakansri madhva sri padmanabha, sriman nrhari madhavanaksobhya jaya-tirtha sri, jnanasindhu dayanidhisri vidyanidhi rajendra, jayadharma kramadvayam
purusottama brahmanya, vyasa-tirthams ca samstumahtato laksmipatim sriman, madhavendran ca bhaktitahtac-chisyan srisvaradvaita, nityanandan-jagat-gurundevam-isvara-sisyam-sri, caitanyan ca bhajamah
Continued...
haridham 3 years ago
Here are more of those who agree with what iskcon is doing. Sridhara Swami Sukadeva Goswami BhagavatPrasad Giridharlal Goswami Jiva Goswami Vamsidhara Viraraghava Acarya (Sri samapradaya) Visvanatha Cakravarti
Vijayadwaja (Madhva sampradaya)Yadavarya
By the way none of the above were in iskcon.
Also if you think that iskcon is still wrong then here is evidence from the bhagavad Gita as spoken by Arjuna. This will continued in the following.
haridham 3 years ago
There are tones from other sastras as well which I will give you but this is just the basics. This is from Sri ARjuna and will be continued in the next messege.
arjuna uvācaparaḿ brahma paraḿ dhāmapavitraḿ paramaḿ bhavānpuruṣaḿ śāśvataḿ divyamādi-devam ajaḿ vibhumāhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarvedevarṣir nāradas tathāasito devalo vyāsaḥsvayaḿ caiva bravīṣi me
haridham 3 years ago
See Sri Arjuna even confirms this. Narada Muni also confirms this, Asita also confirms this, Devala also confirms this and ofcourse as i mentioned Vyasadev also confirms this. Are all of these great personality narrow minded? Think about it. That is the conclusion of these great beings and it is my conclusion and it is Lord Krsna's conclusion.
haridham 3 years ago
314159265352 I hope you now have a clearer picture of what Iskcon is doing and how it is presenting real vedic culture. What it was before it got currupted.
haridham 3 years ago
ISKON is a circus like organisation. it was initially established with a noble idea to spread the krisha consiousness. but it ruined itself. mere dressing like middle aged saints like Meerabhai,Tukaram,Chaitanya prabhu will not make these people equal to them. Those saints didn't write books with silly titles like 'BhagavadGita As It IS' as srila prabhupada did. ISKON people don't know anything about Vedas. ISKON today is just an altered form of christianity.
trojanhorse143 3 years ago
Iskcon is part of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. It is still spreading Krsna consciousness, check out russia, china and several other places. I dont know where you get the idea that it ruined itself, it is still sucessful. I dont know who is dressing like middle aged saints. You obviously dont know what a saint is. Srila prabhupads Gita is accepted by Sri, Rudra, and kumara sampradayas. Iskcon understands the essence of the vedas. Iskcon is the essence of vedic culture.
haridham 3 years ago
Trojanhorsse143, iskcon is doing great service to the world. They have food for life programs, they help people off drugs, they change people lives. I think Hinduism is a circus. Iskcon is the only good thing about the hinduism.
thegift108 3 years ago
Krsna the source of all incarnations
S.b.1.3.28
ete cāḿśa-kalāḥ puḿsaḥ
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam
indrāri-vyākulaḿ lokaḿ
mṛḍayanti yuge yuge
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.
haridham 3 years ago
The thing is Lord Krishna said .."I"..he didn't said "I Krishna".
All throughout the gita it is mentioned the words "Sri Bhagavan Uvacha" Not "Sri Brahman Uvacha" Lord Krsna even states that people who think that he was impersonal before are less intelligent. By the way your link is misinterpreted. Let me prove to you that Krsna is the source of all incarnations.
haridham 3 years ago
How can you say that the link is misinterpreted and yours is correct?? both are from the scriptures...then why your can't be incorrect???
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
"How can you say that the link is misinterpreted and yours is correct??"
Very easily. Who translated those scriptures? What is their sampradaya? What guna is their sampradaya? Who else agrees with their translations in other sampradayas. Our translation is from the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Where is that translation from?
haridham 3 years ago
More over in the Yagya of Yudhisthir...Lord Krishna served the saints, he took their left overs, he washed their feet...so that means Krishna is less then saints??
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
You havent understood the lila between Yudhisthir and Lord Krsna. Lord Krsna serves his devotees. Just as he served ARjuna by becoming his chariot driver, just as he chose to bound up by the rope of mother Yashoda. Just as he chose to put his fathers shoes on his head, all that to please his devotees and to show us how he loves the devotees. Only a real devotee can understand Krsna.
haridham 3 years ago
yeah so that means the Truth can't be lowered or Higher.....eternal Truth remains the same and can't be compared...it can take any form for you ..it can be Krishna it can be Ram or it can be any sage ..depending upon what is needed
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
The truth is not an it. The truth is Lord Krsna. Lord Krsna is the absolute truth from whom everything enamates. Krsna is the source of everything material and spiritual. He comes sometimes by himself in his original form as Lord Krsna and sometimes as other avatars and sometimes sends saktyavesh avatars who are all mentioned in the sastras.
haridham 3 years ago
mattaḥ parataraḿ nānyat
kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
mayi sarvam idaḿ protaḿ
sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.
Lord Krsna Bhagavad Gita 7.7
haridham 3 years ago
Saying KRISHNA is the only GOD, is truth, but IT IS NOT COMPLETE TRUTH.
Anyone saying that Krishna is only god, does not essense of Hinduism. According to Hinduism, there is only ONE GOD (Brahman), who can appear in form or in formless, who is so vast and superior, that we cannot understand its real nature.
Krishna, was considered as sampoorna avatar. According to Hinduism (even Gita), we can worship GOD in any form of our choice and GOD comes ot us in that very form.
314159265352 3 years ago
Lord Krsna is the absolute truth. This is confirmed in th gita. Again the word hindu or the current form of hinduism is never mentioned in any vedic literature. Brahman is just one aspect of God. Krsna is the source of brahman gita 14:27. You are claiming that Krsna is considered a sampoorna avatar, so first give me a defition of sampoorna avatar and then show me where is this stated. WHich sastra? What is the guna of that sastra? Who translated it? What sampradaya? Etc.
haridham 3 years ago
I agree with what you are saying. Only disagreement is that you are saying that only Krishna is GOD. I am saying that there is one GOD (Brahman) and it can be called as Krishna or any other name with SAME results. Even in Gita, Krishna said that He appears in front of devotees in the form in which they worship. GITA is very very old document. Do you think only ISKON was able to properly understand that?
I will try to provide references when I get chance.
314159265352 3 years ago
Krsna IS the only supreme God, the source of Brahman.(gita 14.27) There r 3 aspects of God, Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, S.B.1.2.11. Thinking that Ganesh, Durga etc are equal 2 Krsna is incorrect. Iskcon is part of the brahma madhva gaudiya sampradaya which comes from Lord Krsna, so our understanding of the gita is accurate. There r 3 other sampradayas Sri,Rudra,Kumara who also agree with us & they r eternel sampradayas started under the direction of Lord Krsna. V all cant be wrong right?
haridham 3 years ago
Kindly read the entire chapter. The subject-matter dealt with is attaining Brahman, even prabhupada's translation finally admits that 'reaching' Brahman is the Ultimate Happiness (14.27) 'sukhasya aikantikasya ca'. Also, 'pratishta' can mean basis, foundation, position, abode, reputation, fame etc. In either case, Krishna indicates His equality with Brahman, which by the way, is confirmed in your 2nd ref. Brahma ITI, Paramatma ITI, Bhagavan ITI sabdyate. Nowhere is the mention of hierarchy. OM
vedavaakyam 2 years ago
As regards the mortal composition of the puranas and Itihasas, I beg to differ with this view, on the basis of the following references in the sruti-sastras
rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah
"The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens." (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)
haridham 2 years ago
In gita Lord Krsna explains that worship of other devatas is not equal to his worship, infact he gives the devotee the faith to worship the perticular devata but that doesnt mean they are worshiping krsna, in one sense they r but in the wrong way as the gita states. Lord Krsna states that the other gods or sages dont understand Krsna because he(Krsna)is their source, if they were all one why cant they understand Krsna? Iskcon comes in the line of Krsna so iskcon does understand gita properly.
haridham 3 years ago
Once someone realises that Krsna is the supreme one understands the essence of vedic culture. The conclusion of the gita is that one should surrender unto Lord Krsna(bhagavad gita 18:66) If we worship any form of God(Krsna) then yes, however if we worship demigods we go there and not to Krsna.
haridham 3 years ago
Let me tell you about incident of Goswami tulsidas:
He went to a Krishna temple. Priest said him to bow to Krishna. He said I will not bow to Krishna, my God is Lord Rama. I will bow to him only. He has bow and arrow in his hand. I will bow to him only.
Hearing this, the idol of krishna turned into idol of Lord Rama.
What is the moral of story? Is Lord Rama greater or Lord Krishna smaller? No!
He is SAME everywhere, he can't be compared and whatever his lover wish, he become that.
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
That is truly a great story, but i am sorry 2 say u have misunderstood the meaning or misinterpreted the story. Ram & Krsna ARE the same person. Krsna is the origin when he appears for various lilas he sometimes comes as Narshima, Varaha, Natsya etc but that is all krsna in diff forms. However these r vishnu tattva forms, we should not mistake vishnu tattva forms with jiva tattva, the devatas(except lord Shiva) r jiva tattva. This is mentioned in the Brahma Samhita 5.39 continued....
haridham 3 years ago
Yeah They are from the SAME truth. So they are EQUAL. Truth can't be compared it is everywhere in universe and is same.
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
This is also confirmed in the following verse
avyaktaḿ vyaktim āpannaḿ
manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto
mamāvyayam anuttamam
Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme
haridham 3 years ago
i dont know for me , per my interpretation krsna is the origonal form of god and there for it is only neccecary to worship and serve him, but i also have the buddha, quan yin, and ganesha on my alter, i dont worship them often but i just love seeing there faces along with krsnas every mourning, and nite
Inuyashabuddha 3 years ago
Well, Krsna is the original form of God per vedic uttama siddhanta. So when you worship Lord Krsna it automaticaly includes all the other devi devatas. Your alter should be set up so that Lord Krsna is primary. Just water the root my friend, just water the root.
haridham 3 years ago
i do
ksna is the only one that useualy recieves worship, but seeing the others there gets me in the mood of servic, the buddha being an incarnation, quanyin being his devotee, and lord ganesha being a devotee, they have all at some point in my life been very merciful to me, so when one of them isnt there it feels like something is missing
Inuyashabuddha 3 years ago
I can definatly understand your sentiment, you can still have them on your alter but in the proper position. Lord Krsna and ganeshji shoudnt be on the same position. Try that if you like.
haridham 3 years ago
There are no primary, secondary in GOD. Everything is GOD and GOD is everything. India produced so many saints in the past and all of them were GOD relalizing. But no one said that krishna is the ONLY GOD.
According to you, Sri Ramakrishna was wrong! Raman Maharishi was wrong! Maa Anandamayi wrong! and who is right!!!! ISKON!
Do not misterprent beautiful Indian scriptues and 'Islamicize' them saying that only one GOD, only one name etc.
314159265352 3 years ago
According to all bonafide authorities Lord Krsna is supreme, and that is the conclusion of vedic uttama siddhanta. If Ramakrishna was right then show me evidence from sastra how he was right. Iskcon is part of the brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya and the teachings are based on guru, sadhu and sastra, what are your teachings based on?
We are presenting vedic culture as presented before it was currupted. What is the measuring stick 4 right and wrong?
haridham 3 years ago
Did Lord Krishna in Shrimad Bhagwat Geeta said that he is supreme of all Bonafide??
He said from time and again I come to this earth to promote dharma. He can come in any form whether in the form of Lord Rama or in the heart of a saint.
Remember -- If something is greater then it's not Truth or 'atman' if it is smaller then also it is not 'Truth'. The eternal truth can't be greater or smaller than anybody. It's SAME in everyone. That is what Lord Krishna pointed out. Truth can't be compared.
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
These r prayers by Lord Brahma, who is a guna avatar of Lord Krsna.
Brahma Samhita 5.39
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaḿ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi
I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Kṛṣṇa and the different avatāras in the world in the forms of Rāma, Nṛsiḿha, Vāmana, etc., as His subjective portions.
haridham 3 years ago
"Did Lord Krishna in Shrimad Bhagwat Geeta said that he is supreme of all Bonafide??"
Yes!
Gita 10.8
ahaḿ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaḿ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māḿ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
Lord Krsna states here that he is the source of everything & the wise worship him.
haridham 3 years ago
Yeah so when he said ME..that means me..eternal conscious...which is everywhere n in every body. He came with in the body of Krishna and Ram. So HE is the same. Everyone is same and in HIM. So there is no one big or small. in HIS eyes
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
Thats foolish. When Krsna says he, he means He, there is no eternel consciousness within Krsna. This is clearly explained in the following verse of the gita.
brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.
Bhagavad Gita 14.27
Continued....
haridham 3 years ago
What HE?? who is HE? is HE the body?? if that is the body of Krishna...then it went away?? so how can he be eternal?
He said "I"..so what is "I"...can you explain me>??? What do you mean by "I"???
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
What HE?? who is HE? is HE the body?? if that is the body of Krishna...then it went away?? so how can he be eternal?
Sure easily.
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.
The above is explained in brahma samhita 5.1
haridham 3 years ago
When Krsna says "I" it means HIM(KRSNA) it doesnt mean anything or anyone else. Krsna is the source of everything.
haridham 3 years ago
Yeah so when Krishna and Ram are same then Ram is also the source of everything? No? When everything is same then why u comparing? When everything is tatva which has several names why u comparing?
SadhakKapil 3 years ago
The point you are missing is that Krishna was avatar of Supreme GOD (Brahman). When he said 'I' or 'Me', you literally interpret as Krishna and not as Supreme GOD.
Whats in a name? Name comes from language and language is man made? GOD understand language of bhakti and love, it does not matter what you call him/her.
314159265352 3 years ago
Bonafide authorities are those that realize God through guru, sadhu and sastra and are authorized by God. Which is Krsna. Without the measuring stick of Guru, Sadhu and sastra we can be lost We have to figure out what is the measuring stick for who is spiritualy advanced and who isnt. The list i sent you previously explains who is bonafide and who isnt. Those like Narada Muni, Sage Vyasa etc are those authorised which and they are the ones who set the bar for God realization.
haridham 3 years ago
"GOD was, is and always be there. We have to just realize this and thats why it is called GOD Realization. GOD is right here, but because of our EGO and past karmas, we do not see.:
I absolutely agree. Krsna is eternel. He is the source of everything, everything including Brahman comes from him. It is due to false ego we think that God is limited to just Brahman. Brahman is another aspect of Krsna but beyond Brahman is Paramatma & Bhagavan. According to Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.11
Cont..
haridham 3 years ago
The Absolute Truth is both subject and object, and there is no qualitative difference there. Therefore, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān are qualitatively one and the same. The same substance is realized as impersonal Brahman by the students of the Upaniṣads, as localized Paramātmā by the Hiraṇyagarbhas or the yogīs, and as Bhagavān by the devotees. In other words, Bhagavān, or the Personality of Godhead, is the last word of the Absolute Truth.
Continued
haridham 3 years ago