Do You Like Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition? (Answer in the comment section below)

[ThroatSore]

Yes, I like 4th Edition D&D. You know, that version on computer. That one were you play mechanically with others in a massively multiplayer environment. Ah, how odd, I start out with 4th ed and end up talking about world of warcraft. How odd.

I still play 3.5 as we can decide to slash someone in the knee with a sword if we wish. We don't have to have a card which tells us we can do it. I wonder what %th ed will look like?

[DMWithABigd20]

@ravenshadowz6000 Just read through all of this. You didn't defend your system even once. All you did was talk shit about 4e. Shit that wasn't even true. You say he didn't address any of your points, but he addressed every single one in turn. You say he's giving out cookie cutter answers, but he really isn't. You on the other hand have given out nothing but the same untrue, uninformed bullshit that all the other hipster fanboys toss out.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 A party of Wizards probably wouldn't even be able to get passed the first room of goblin guards in the dungeon. You have some serious misconception about what D&D 4e is really like. Understand that I have no issue if you prefer other editions of D&D over 4e. That's your choice. But when I see someone come into a public forum and make negative comments about a game I enjoy that aren't even true, you'll understand why I'd have something to say about it.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 Again I say, my comments are directed at those who made this video, they made negative comments toward the game that I play I'm not going to stand by and let them do that either.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 They made one joke about how wizards used to have to stand in the back and save their one good spell, which might be exaggerating, but is true enough for comedy's sake. But if you really feel that they insulted your game, then defend it. Don't spread misinformation about theirs.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 YOu know what, you repeat the same thing every other person who likes 4E, maybe you should come up with an original statement. I did not see you to respond to half of what I talked about here, what you said if I feel insulted to defend it which I did, then you turn around and get upset about it, there are a lot of people out there who same thing. Why do you think WOTC wants to change the system once more? I'm not the spends $1,000.00 then get betrayed.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 You should focus your anger on WOTC for messing with what you find to be so perfect. I'm done responding to cookie cutter answers from you.

[inlife9]

I have DMed/Gmed many rpgs starting with D&D 2nd. I was only a player of 1st. As my experience goes w/ D&D, I find 4e great fun. I understand the younger guys who do "seem" to fight alot came in on the hobby with 3.0/3.5 and they have a special place for it. I noticed most negative reviews of 4e are bias & false. Truth is ALL systems have points you need to fix for your own game enjoyment- if you are inclined. As for 4e in the hands of a skilled DM it is great fun & requires less prep hours.

[ravenshadowz6000]

For me it takes all the fun out of the game to have a card with who I'm told to play, I will take a video game over being told who or what to play, that is why I love, the original AD&D because there is none of that at all. I see no reason for anyone to limit their imagination when it comes to a game that is supposed to be a RPG.

[ravenshadowz6000]

Let's take for example typical adventure video game of today, you put the disc, let it load, pic the pre-made PC that you choose to be and then press play, that is all there is to it, now the same thing takes place with those who choose use the pre-made PCs, the DM hands out the cards with all the info and you are off to adventure, which most of those games turn into hack and slash.

[ravenshadowz6000]

I do not think Mr. Gygax would have been happy at all with this new edition, that being said, I know his game Lejendary Adventure, would have out performed 4th Edition D&D. Since this new system has pre-made PCs to me that is just like when you turn on your favorite video game and start playing by picking a pre-made fighter of most all video games of today, so yes this new system is headed towards a table top version of a video game.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 Um...What? What do you mean "pre-made PCs?"  The only 4e product that I know of that actually comes with pre-mades is Keep on the Shadowfell, and that was just because that product was actually released a month or two before the 4e core books, so that people could have a sample of the new edition. If you go to an Encounters session, they do offer some pre-mades, but those are really only meant for people who haven't played before.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89

What I'm talking about is that when I went to my local gaming shop and asked what edition they were playing and was told that it was 4th Edition and that they played with pre-made PCs, as soon as I was told that, I did not want to play or have anything to do with that game.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 You're local gaming shop was most likely in the middle of an Encounters season, and was (incorrectly) thinking that the Encounter pre-mades are mandatory. Those characters are meant so that people who've never played D&D can jump in and join a game to try it out without having to go through daunting (for newbies) character creation. Even if that isn't the case, to judge an entire system based on how it's played in ONE SINGLE STORE is just ridiculous.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89

What about the unlimited spells you get to use in combat?  That seems to me a lot like video games I have played.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 What unlimited spells in combat? Each class only get a couple of attack powers that they can use over and over again in a single battle, and most are usually only half a step above basic attacks in terms of usefulness. The more powerful ones can only be used once per encounter each, and the really big ones can only be used once per in-game day.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89

Oh you must mean the At Will Attack Powers such as Magic Missile that is described in 4E well I know a lot of computer games that work like that, in fact most MMOs work the same way. Might as well make the players god like if they are allowed to do that many MM attacks

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 You're right. We should go back to the old way, where a magic user completely forgot how to cast every spell the moment he cast it, and the party could either stop and go to sleep so the magic user could RE-LEARN their powers, or press on with a useless party member. That was so much better than actually letting the wizard do something once he's cast all his big spells. Just because it's similar to certain video games doesn't mean it's bad.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 The spell caster does not forget the spell, they have to rest in order to use the spell once again, I guess you have never read any fantasy such as "The Dreaming City" Elric of Melniboné, what happens to him once he cast a spell he becomes weak. A good party who does more than just hack and slash can and will find a way to either defeat their foe or get out of danger, the wizard should never become cookie cutter. The game is not about winning every battle

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 What you're describing still happens in 4e. That's the whole point of Encounter and Daily powers. They're powers that are so complicated or strenuous on the user that they can't be used again without the user taking time to rest up. (5 mins for Encounter Powers, 8 hours for Dailies.) The only difference is that now Wizards can learn some weaker, non-strenuous spells as well, which makes sense when you really think about it.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 I do under stand what you are saying, but the point I'm trying to get across is this.

It may happen to some degree but I'm pretty sure that it has become more like a video game as there are certain types of spells, etc that you have to wait for the to go back to fill health in order to use a spell. But what I'm saying where is the danger if you never run out of arrows or spells, the sword never breaks, etc.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 The danger is in the same place that it's always been. Do you honestly think that they just made the PC options more epic, and left the enemies all the same? If you think you can get by on just a wizard sitting in the back casting a single magic missile every round, you're dead wrong. The party still needs to work together, or they're going to get annihilated in the first fight. 4e is as focused on team work as much, if not more, than any previous edition.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 A party is almost wiped out or the party barely escapes not because they had an unlimited supply of magic missiles but because they barely won by working together and finding a way to win, that is far more memorable for the players, which would be talked about far longer than say a battle where the wizard says magic missile, magic missile over and over again, you might as well have the everyone play wizards and just use magic missile.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@ravenshadowz6000 So an army of wizards just mow everything and every one down that gets in their path, unless they go up against creatures that are not affected by magic. My original post were not directed at you, it was directed at those who made this video, if you like playing 4E I have no right to try and change your mind, but for them to cut down what I like to play, I will not stand for that. After all WOTC is going to do to 4E what they did to the rest of

[ravenshadowz6000]

@ravenshadowz6000 Editions since they got every penny they could from players, now they want to come out with a new set of books so people that are so hung up on rules will buy the next core books, I would not doubt that they will do one of two things either combine the DM with the PHB as Pathfinder did or come out with twice as many DMGs and PHBs making you spend even more money just so you can say you own all the books

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 First of all, you need to get it out of your head that Magic Missile is this all-powerful fix all attack. It's just 2+Int Mod damage, plus whatever the enhancement bonus you might have on your implement. It's an OK power for really slow minion busting, but unless you build around it, it's not really all that great. For god's sake, they actually had to give it away for free to the new Wizard classes because no one liked wasting an at-will slot for it.

[ravenshadowz6000]

With all that said, it does not take much imagination at all, if PCs can go up quickly to very high lvls, I see people becoming bored with the game very quickly. Where is the fun of creating a PC that has weaknesses that are heroes, for example, Elric, in that fantasy series was not all powerful without his sword Strombringer, the most fun I have had was playing lvl 1 PC and not knowing if I would survive or not, I think I will research Pathfinder.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 What do you mean "quickly"? Playing once a week for about three to four hours a session, it's estimated that it would take a player about a year and a half to go from starting level to final level. If that's to "quick" for you, then you have some pretty high standards.

[ravenshadowz6000]

@SuperGoliath89 We used to play once a week 8 to 10 hour sessions and no way were we any where near a final level. I was lucky enough to reach 6th level at the end of the year, my DM had very high standards it was not about how many monsters we could kill it was the quality of the game.

[SuperGoliath89]

@ravenshadowz6000 You can still have that type of experience with 4e. Anyone who says otherwise is just being elitist. My first campaign went for the better part of a year, meeting only once a week, and playing for about 5 hours at a time. The party only made it to level 5 before we had to put it on hiatus. Some of that was because we needed to skip a few sessions here and there, but a lot of it was that we would spend a lot of time in RP.

[ravenshadowz6000]

I play the original AD&D, and have also played AD&D 2nd edition.

I recently went into a gaming shop where they were playing D&D and asked about this new 4th Edition, I was told now that they have pre-made PCs, to me this has become a cookie cutter game, to let the players have powers that replace the Magic Spells, what good is it to have a Wizard and if there is the so called Healing Surge if that is what it is called, what good is it to have a Cleric?

[scottyjennings1]

I am an old school rplayer and I traversed Shadowrun, white wolf , d&d and rifts. I keep going back to 3.5. I realy think you should arguing like girls calling each other names I have never read any of the 4ed stuff and was hopping to get a real perspective from this before buying it. but it looks like that is too much to ask.

[JDizzleton1]

@scottyjennings1 Hey no worries don't listen to the haters, 4e is awesome and there's a lot of ways to check it out before putting any money down. Look on the official D&D site for a quick start rule guide for new players. There's sample characters and adventures there for download

[SYNYSTERfknGATES]

Yes, but with old school DnD roleplay was much more implied. And all these "cool down" powers and shit. Also, who's idea was it to shitty up the skills system for WoW edition? Its not the same game. Those gold-brickers at Wizards whipped up this edition to take advantage of the WoW generation and stuck the DnD name on it so that old school players would naively spend there money on a shitty product.

[goldgrif]

@SYNYSTERfknGATES Though I agree with you, it looks like the WOTC Zombies cant handle critiques, even though it was asked for, LOL I always preferred BRP but ran all the dnd since 79, Basic , 1 thru 3.5 My 4ed stuff is used as a doorstop, What is interesting is this need to keep improving stuff, yet keeps missing the mark, took me a year or so to like 2nd and 3rd, this one just doesnt flow for me, and if I was going to play a wargame, there are others much better and ADD the RPGing

[communistninja9]

Ok, yes D&D 4e is really combat focused, but there still is room for roleplayig! the store bought adventures aren't that great, so write your own, with room for roleplaying! if you find combat is taking too long it is probably the groups fault, and probably can move faster. Although one complaint i do have is unbalanced classes and the fact that it is modeled for 5 people and a DM which is hard to find. But overall this edition has potential!

[goldgrif]

hate it, it is a computer game pretendind to be a tabletop wargame pretending to be a rpg

[XBurntBProductionsX]

@goldgrif How is it anything like a computer game? DnD was the inspiration for video games, and it learned from popular ones too. How is it pretending to be a war game? DnD started from war games, try Chainmail dummy. And how is pretending to be a RPG? It is a RPG you play a character in the game, just because you can't RP with out the adventures holding your little hand, and telling you step by step what to do and say then you shouldn't hate it.

[goldgrif]

@XBurntBProductionsX Well DUMMY I was there in the begining , lol , been gaming since 79, and more and more there is less rpg. All 10th level fighters are basically the same, We now have slots, dcrease ofskills etc. and most players are now trying to imitate what they see in video games and that is how I perceiev the 4ed, So dummy I have playedwith groups all over north america and see the same thing. That is why there is a building old game revival. so dummy, you call have the crap

[XBurntBProductionsX]

@goldgrif Fine. I respect your opinion and all but still think your wrong about the fighters. They have more choices to make than ever! No more Basic Attack 24/7. Ohh and one last thing.....dummy.

[goldgrif]

@XBurntBProductionsX Well Dummy!!, LOL!!! (hey, you started it) Fighters ALWAYS had options even in the old days.Problem is most players and most gms dont do sword and board. On Tetsubos channel they are talking about AoO, that is a wargame issue of zone of control! It is the fact most gms and players limit their thinking. And have to "formalize" actions. A good gm should be able to monitor and regulate what is going on, many gms both old and new have an antagonstic behavior to players.

[SYNYSTERfknGATES]

"I hit him with my sword, i hit him with my sword"

Oh, so because you are a shitty role player they have to destroy D&D? Also, the "median" part at the end of game implies this was going to be funny.. but instead it was boring as fuck.

[XBurntBProductionsX]

@SYNYSTERfknGATES Please tell me how they destroyed it? It was a big advancement stop bitching about the old days man. Sure AD&D, and 3.x where great but you gotta move on. You can't live in the past. Like communist ninga9 said, it has a lot of potential.

[SYNYSTERfknGATES]

@XBurntBProductionsX 4e is a different game and they shouldn't have sold out the franchise on the fucker. Sure call it "Dungeons and Dragons: Trying to emulate Warcraft" or "Dungeons and Dragons: No roleplay required" but to say that it is a new version of DnD when its a blatant tare down is some bullshit.

[XBurntBProductionsX]

@SYNYSTERfknGATES I hate to tell you but DnD was never Roleplay required. The books never flat out told you YOU HAVE TO ROLEPLAY. And once again tell me how its like WoW.

[Orklord90]

D&D 4e isn't a roleplaying game.

Even myself could do a better role-playing game for roleplayers and I'm a newbie in Role-Playing Game Design and it's all homebrew.

Fuck that MMORPG-retarded Miniature game.

[TheOnlyAttrition]

@Orklord90 You do realize that Roleplaying is not system dependent right? since you are a self-proclaimed newbie, im not suprised you wouldnt realize that. anyone can roleplay just as well in 4e, 2e, 3e, 1e, GURPS, YAGS, WoD, Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulu, Dragon Age, Pathfinder. If you are that dumb as to let battle mechanics determine whether you RP or not, then you probably shouldnt be playing RPGS. Just saying. :/

[Orklord90]

@TheOnlyAttrition You must be very intolerant to other people, I mean why call them dumb if they don't share the same opinion?! And for me calling myself newbie is to be true with myself, because I'm a new in "playing" role-playing games and game designing, but that dosen't mean I just can't do anything good, be cause i'm a newbie right? Sounds just so idiotic to say otherwise.

[Orklord90]

@TheOnlyAttrition My system is based on role-playing, act and interact! Even the "battle mechanics" is based on acting and desrcribe in an social way. I'm just following John Wick and his way to design role-playing game systems, which I think is more Role-play friendly. And who are you to say that I should quit with my hobby and my life's work? I just say what 4e really is! It's not a rpg and I have many people that supports that statement.

[XBurntBProductionsX]

@Orklord90 Okay message me an entire custom RPG's rules and I'll judge how shitty of a game YOU can design. And look up the term roleplaying, and read 4e's books for God's sake! People shouldn't talk shit they don't know.

[madquest8]

Pathfinder all the way!

[CCGUniversity]

I like 1st and 2nd ed better

[minecraftmainian]

no



[Markleberry]

I've played all the editions from 1st to 4th, and I gotta say I love this 4th generation of the game.. It's answered every desire I had due to lack from previous editions. It's a bit more challenging to role play, but not impossible, and I guess that's the give and take of it all.

[africanjupiter]

i like your tee shirt ! ^^

[LichFox]

Pathfinder is so much better.

[skullblob]

D&D is dead to me... long live Pathfinder!

[woodwwad]

I really do not like 4e, IMO, 3.5 is much better.

[Ogma01]

Missed this one... And still pissed that we never had a chance to game together, Andrew (since I now live in Portland), but who knows what the future will hold! While 'Savage Worlds' is still my favorite ruleset, I have to say that I am quite a fan of 4th Edition! I've played D&D since 1978 (crap I'm an old man) and I think the latest edition is well-designed, streamlined, accessible to non-RPGers and just a heck of a lot of fun to play. Don't listen to the haters! Keep on gaming!!!

[TechState]

oh... thank you! hilarious!

[WambliPeta]

I've not played it. The only RPG I play is a MMOG call Lineage II .They build I play is Gracia second throne. I own and played Aion for about 3 months and kinda lost interest. Looking forward to more vids 8-)

[JamMasterJay63]

Do Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.

[nestormedeiros]

Well, it´s a good game, but the Dungeon Master lost a lot of his old authority and, in my opinion, have much more work now to create the adventures.

[rumive]

wtf? is this a joke? o.O

[BobfishAlmighty]

Personally, I've never been a DnD fan. I'm still too hung up on WEG

[60secondclip]

gaymedian?

[chinamansg1]

Hey Dan! Why is your t-shirt in 3D? Gonna' put up on IMAX?

I don't play much D&D... play GURPS a little more. Also, I have a friend who worked for Wizards of the Coast. Heh. I kinda' wanna' go to the PAX show sometime, though.

[gamedians]

@Omgausername6 This batch of video's sound got recorded in mono because we were running our lav mics through a different sound mixer this time that f-ed the sound up (i.e. recorded it in mono). There was also a bad buzzing from the new fluorescent lighting kit we used that was a royal pain to fix as well.

The next batch will be better. We're just waiting for Andrew's SAG waiver to come through so we can tape a bunch more. When you see us in different t-shirts you'll know it's a new batch.