The 'Virgin' Mary: To My Catholic/Orthodox Friends

[Strefanasha]

they do worship mary. how do i know? The passion and emotion they have toward her. marian doctrine is the most grossly offensive catholic doctrine there is, IMO, and the chief reason why i will never become a catholic

[pennylaneproductions]

@Strefanasha They call her 'our life, out sweetness, our hope'...yet they claim it is not worship. If you suggested they build a church without a single graven image you would find out where they stand.

[shaunleeky]

EL SEñOR DE JESUS ESTA CON MARI EN LAS PALABRAS DE DIOS! Y SI CICESX AL CONTRARIO ERES MENTIROSO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!

[BiblicalGreekChronos]

Part IV. We call her the bearer of God because she bore Jesus, our God, in her womb.

We call her ever-virgin because we believe that Jesus' brothers were from Joseph's first marriage and that Mary was a virgin her whole life, based on the statement: "πῶς ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω;" (Luke 1:34b) "How will this be, since I know not man?" γινώσκω is in the Present Active Indicitive form indicating a state of being. She does not say she has not known a man (past), but that she knows no man, she won't.

[Strefanasha]

@BiblicalGreekChronos the question "how can this be for i know not a man" can only be said to apply to her at that and up to that time.

there is absolutely nothing in the biblical text nor in plain common sense which implies from this that she was a life long virgin.

I submit that the idea that it does comes from the late roman empire period when the worldview darkened and people started to think that sex was intrinsically evil, which of course it is not

[BiblicalGreekChronos]

Part III: Immaculate because she died in a sinless state, having her sins forgiven because she was washed in the Blood of Christ just like any other believer. In the East, we DO NOT believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary, as it is completely unbiblical.

Most blessed and glorified Lady because she was blessed with the honour of bringing Jesus, the Christ, into this world. We call her glorified because she was in the state of believe (ἐν δόξος) and thus glorified as all believers will be.

[BiblicalGreekChronos]

Part II: We, in the East, call Mary: Τῆς Παναγίας, ἀχράντου, ὑπερευλογημένης, ἐνδόξου, δεσποίνης ἡμῶν Θεοτόκου καὶ ἀειπαρθένου Μαρίας. This means The All-Holy, Immaculate, Most blessed and glorified Lady, the bearer of God, and ever Virgin Mary.

All-Holy is not dogmatic and is most of the time not used. However, because she is seen as the "New Eve", having submitted to God, she is Holy because of God's Grace.

[BiblicalGreekChronos]

Part I: While in some ways, you raise valid points, you do not seem to understand that there is a distinct difference between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Church makes the claim that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, that she is the Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix. These ideas are unknown in the East.

[ThePanaghia]

Pentru toti ereticii care nu cred in Maicutza Domn ului............dak nu era ea nu exista nici Hristos pe pamant

[pennylaneproductions]

@ThePanaghia Can you say that in English?

[mondoshrimpo]

At the very foot of the cross which Jesus died on,one of the last things he said was 'Woman,behold your son,,,behold your Mother' Jesus gives his Blessed Mother to the world for our care and adoration,not worship,and we pray to Him through Her. Do you not care about and respect and honor your spouses/partners/best friends mother? It is as simple as this. Why do so many people continue to have a problem with Mary? I have been Catholic for 44 years and not once have I,or anyone I know,worship Her.

[pennylaneproductions]

@mondoshrimpo He gave her to the world? says who? Not John, not any NT writer. And she's the, what now? Mother of God? Does that make her the grandmother of believers? Ths 'church' calls itself mother. So Mary's the mother of the church? The churcvh has a mother and it is a mother too? Do you see what rubbish all this is? {Pure human reason, nothing more.

[mondoshrimpo]

@pennylaneproductions Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ,His true mother,she gave actual physical birth to him. Jesus is God, God made flesh,She is the Mother of the second member of the Holy Trinity i.e. Jesus who is also God.. His Precious body and blood are also Hers,He came from Her body, the same as you came from your own mothers body,you share the same body and blood and DNA as her dont you? Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ,whjo is God ,,what is unclear about any of this?

[pennylaneproductions]

@mondoshrimpo The (very obvious) problem with that view (besides being unbiblical, nay, antibiblical) is that usually mothers preexist their sons. My mother was before I was. Was Mary before Jesus? He created her, not she Him.

[mondoshrimpo]

@pennylaneproductions what part of this is so difficult for any common moron to understand? She was the mother of Jesus,it is very biblical...He is the son of God and born of the Virgin Mary ..Jesus IS GOD in human form on this earth and given free will just like any other human,Mary came before Jesus..God became before Mary and created Her but she is Jesus earthly mother ,She is the mother of the second person of the Holy Trinity (God) who is Jesus. Is your brain unable to understand this???

[mondoshrimpo]

Google 'The miracle of the sun' or watch on youtube

[pennylaneproductions]

@mondoshrimpo Lying signs and wonders. To make peopple believe in a 'Blessed Mother' which, anypone who reads the scriptures knows, Christ would not and did not allow.

[vasilyjc1955]

The Orthodox consider Rome to be schismatics and heretics. Rome considers the Orthodox schismatics.

The Holy Virgin is the Mother of our Lord. The most Holy Theotokos. The Virgin Mary has a place of "honor" in the Church. The Orthodox do not worship Her, but ask Her to pray for us. Your video is misleading .You should read some material on Orthodox dogmatic theology. The truth exists, you haven't found it yet.

[pennylaneproductions]

@vasilyjc1955 What you say might have been true at one point but today's Cat and Ort churches are all buddy-buddy. I have read four books by Coptic Pope Shenouda III and they aer consistent with traditional Orthodox theology. There is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER for asking intercession from Mary or any saint. If any man sins we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. You've read that, haven't you?

[vasilyjc1955]

@pennylaneproductions Saints are those Holy individuals who have died as martyrs, made a fearless confession of Faith, a sacrifice to lead a "Christ centered " life. We pray to them to help us in our worldly struggles. "You are my friends if you do whatever I command of you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you." (John 15:14-15)

[vasilyjc1955]

@vasilyjc1955 In the Orthodox Church there is a basis for everything. Tradition contains teachings of the Holy Apostles. Holy Tradition preserves facts which have to do with the life of Christ.

[pennylaneproductions]

@vasilyjc1955 And it doesn't trouble you at all that NO ONE in the BIble practices nor preaches this? I don't care how long a 'church' has been teaching something; a lie is a lie.

[vasilyjc1955]

@pennylaneproductions Do you not pray for loved ones,here ,departed or suffering from some ailment? Or maybe you think praying is not necessary. These Holy individuals, are the Church's heroes, individuals to emulate, to follow as Christ's disciples followed Him.

As far as the Orthodox Catholic buddy thing. This is what the western press is spreading. That these talks are productive. This is a falsehood. The Orthodox are quite dissatisfied with the outcomes.

[vasilyjc1955]

@pennylaneproductions In the Orthodox Church, we all come to services as a community, specifically the Liturgy, to worship together, and pray for those who have departed, whether family,friend or Saint. We are all members of Christ Holy Church here on earth.

[billjames10]

Full revelation was completed in the Bible. Things like Immaculate Conception or Trinity are not new revelations, but mysteries 'let loose' so to speak, for further contemplation of the complete revelation of Jesus.

[billjames10]

Finally, to base everything to be belived strictly on Bible text is to say that there is no Trinity for it is not in the Bible, though there is evidence...the same as there is no mention for Mary as Mediatrix and Mother of God, but there is clear evidence for such belief...and that both Catholics and Protestants believe things that were never clearly presented in the Bible, almost leaning towards Gnostic thought.

[billjames10]

Mary's cooperation was necessary. to say it wasn't and God wouldve chosen another would be to say God chose his son's mother at random, and His grand plan for salvation was all on the whim of whomever He chose. God knew she would accept, the same as He knew Moses would...both being righteous, trustful of God. Plus, it just does not make sense that Christ as man would have a sinful woman for Mother. Christ being fully human inherited His full humanity from Mary, who had to have been free of sin.

[pennylaneproductions]

@RedBloodedShqiponja What that would prove, actually, is that Catholics and Orthodox care less about the truth than they do about worldly relationships. Do the Orthodox have ANY clue that the Catholic Church officially condemns them as heretics? Does that register with them, I wonder?

[Chichiri520]

@pennylaneproductions

Dont they condemn EACH OTHER as heretics?

[pennylaneproductions]

@Chichiri520 Histroically, maybe...today each side calls the other 'brother', which is nonsense because it means the 'infallible' councils of old were wrong!

[billjames10]

@pennylaneproductions Catholics don't condemn Orthodox as heretics...nor protestants...nor muslims... please get your facts straight....please.

[pennylaneproductions]

@billjames10 Get YOUR facts straight. The one-world religious ecumenical nonsense of Vatican II totally contradicts earlier teaching condemning Protestants and Orthodox. One must be subject to the ROMAN pontiff...have you not read Boniface VIII, John XXIII or Pius IX? Those outside the Catholic Church CANNOT be saved according to Gergopry XVI,Pius IX, Boniface VIII, Paul VI, Eugene IV. These blasphemers and idolaters condemn the true faith in Christ and espouse man-made religion.

[thebchbys]

if we could include all "gospels" I'd listen to more of this...also to think there would be no "new information" about Christianity or that the only truth would have to be over a thousand years old seems odd to me...

[boggymark1]

Internationally renowned for its accuracy, the Authorized Version of the Holy Bible (KJV) preserves the Old Testament and the New Testament in exemplary English, which were translated flawlessly into our common language in its Golden Age.

For the English-speaking peoples, the King James Bible is the final authority in all matters because it is the Holy Scriptures, divinely inspired, inerrant, infallible, and preserved in English, which is the lingua franca of our contemporary world.

[johndamascene]

You cannot lump Orthodox and Catholic beliefs about Mary together. While we Orthodox share many beliefs about the life of the Mother of God and her role in the Christian Church, we have and will continue to deny anything that suggests that she was conceived without sin and is erroenous. To believe that suggests that Mary was never in need of the cross of our Lord and His Resurrection. Whether Mary actually sinned or not should not even be debated since we should worry for our own.

[MJGVFan]

Jesus did not address her Mother, nor any apostles address her Mother, BUT she was being described in the Bible as a ''Mother of Jesus.'' Which is still the same in ''Essence.''

John 10:30 I and My Father are one.

If Jesus is Our Father then Mary will be Our Mother. It says in Exodus 20:12 Honour your Father And Your Mother. Jesus is Our Father and Mary is Jesus' Mother, so its easy to understand that she will be Our Mother too because She is Jesus' Mother, and we should Honour her too.

[MJGVFan]

Ok, Let us say that there's Nothing extraordinary pertaining to her name ''Mary'' as you claim it. But her Being, her Qualities and her Devotion to God are the most Extraordinary that matters.

Noah is also Unique, BUT Jesus uses Mary as His special tool to be in this planet and that's what makes her Very Very special among all men. She brought him in this world, she took care of him, she feed him and most of all she loved him all her heart and Jesus was so grateful about it.

[MJGVFan]

Exodus 20:12 - Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

In this text God explicitly commanded us to ''Honor'' our Parents. So ''Why would you think that Jesus did not address his mother in a proper way?''

I tell you, here in the Philippines we pay respect to a Woman by calling them ''Binibini,'' A word which gives them much respect everytime we address them...

[MJGVFan]

Every language has its own Art of Expression and I think we cannot translate 100% the meaning from one language to another.

[MJGVFan]

John 2:4-Jesus said to her (Mary) ''Woman, how does your concern affect me?''

This text used the word woman as if Jesus did not respect he moher. In John 2:4, the English translation uses ''Woman'' for the original Greek language. ''Gyne'' that has the meaning of,''Lady,'' ''Madame,'' at that time, word that carries deep respect.

[MJGVFan]

Luk 1:52-55 - He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy. As he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

In additon to that, here is what Mary has to say to us:

John 2:5 - Jesus' mother then told the servants,''Do whatever he(Jesus) tells you.''

[MJGVFan]

Luk 1:46-55 - And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

[MJGVFan]

Ask Jesus, since Mary was absolutely critical and essential to his plan of salvation for mankind.

Mary is the woman of prophecy. The woman whose Son would crush the head of that old serpent, the devil. Paul and Peter didnt throw the term woman around lightly, and neither did Jesus.

Read the Magnificat (Marys Song) and youll see that God appreciates QUALITY Not necessarily Quantity.

[pennylaneproductions]

The term 'woman' (Greek, Gune) is the same word used of Mary (His mother), Mary Magdalene and the woman at the well...there is NOTHING extraordinary about this usage except in the imaginations of Catholics. Also, no one calls here mother, not even Jesus. Her role was unique but the again, so was Noah's.

[MJGVFan]

That is why Mary was called Blessed by angel Gabriel, because of all women on earth she was the chosen one, and the only one! We Catholics do ''Honor'' her- Why? It's Because God Honors her too.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

[MJGVFan]

Ask yourself: If God simply uses and then ''Discard'' his own mom, then what might YOU actually have to look forward to in Heaven?...

Jesus is A Loving and A Grateful God. He uses Mama Mary to be born here on earth in form of a human, that's why she has a special place in heaven, BUT it doesn't raise her to the level of God in any way, shape, or form. All it mean is that God chose to use her in an Extraordinary way for His will.

[MJGVFan]

Hi there Penny! In becoming man and coming to earth, God chose to involve a human being: Mary.

He didn't have to do so, he could have simply appeared as a grown man, as Adam had. But it pleased God to involve human ''Mediation'' in the Incarnation, by enlisting the cooperation of Mary and human biology. So Mary is Mediatrix in that first sense.

She brought Jesus into the world, which in turn led to our salvation.

[johndamascene]

Pennlaneyproductions,

First of all you fail to take into account that there are some very radical differences with regards to how the Orthodox and the Catholics approach Mary in our veneration (NOT worship; there is a difference) of her.

[pennylaneproductions]

And an even MORE radical difference between the way the Bible represents Mary and the way Cats and Orts SEE her.

[Paul020253]

Two of the gospels include genealogies of Our Lord, both from David. It seems to me that Scripture makes it clear, very clear, that God is intensely interested in the human forebears of the Son of God. To dismiss Mary as "unimportant" or "it could have been anybody" is, at best, poor exegesis and at worst a total ignorance of Scripture. Luke 1v48 'henceforth ALL generations will call me blessed" I wonder Penny when was the last time you blessed Mary? I spent 25 years in Evangelicalism and didnt

[Paul020253]

Once again Penny Lane is incorrect. Our Lord was the true King of Israel-therefore He had to descend from the Israelite Royal Family, so His Mother could not have been just anyone, she had to be of the tribe of Judah in general and one family in particular. Furthermore, since God's plan included the Second Person of the Trinity becoming Man, Mary had to agree to that, if she hadn't it would be tantamount to rape.

[billottte]

In embracing scripture as the sole source of divine revelation, ignoring Holy Tradition and the Sensus Fidelium, they have become cut off from the full richness of the Christian tradition.

[shanana000]

Says who?

[pennylaneproductions]

Full richness comes from knowing God...not having some apostate church tell me I can't know Him but through them

[pennylaneproductions]

So believing the scriptural teaching that we have passed from death to life through faith in Christ's FINISHED work and shall never perish and He is our ONE mediator and High Priest is being 'cut off' from something? And endlesses works, Masses, Rosaries, etc. is 'richness'? You poor soul!

[billottte]

I was raised in the Greek Orthodox Church, and I can say without reservation that the Blessed Virgin has much more to do with my life than to her apperance scripture. Her veneration is accepted by Holy Tradition and have often sought comfort in her maternal embrace. Sola Scriptura is the great error the of the Protestant movement.

[shanana000]

So what God says isn't the highest authority on earth? what are you, crazy?

[billottte]

Of course, I believe that God has the highest authority. We just disagree on how God's will is to be determined. The Christian understanding of the Bible is radically different than, say, the Islamic understanding of the Koran. Muslims believe that the Koran is a transcription of God's literal words to Muhammed. Christians have never claimed this about the Bible, which has historically been understood by Christians to be a collection of divinely inspired, not divinely authored, books.

[pennylaneproductions]

The Qur'an is basically a Bible commentary. No explanation is given for anything, it in fact presupposes the reader already knows and believes the Bible. How can it be accepted when it blatantly contradicts the Bible it is based upon?

[pennylaneproductions]

If scripture alone is not appropriate, then tell me...what OUTSIDE scripture are we to believe...scripture warns of flase bretheren coming after...nothing is safe to believe but scripture. Tradition contradicts (blatantly so) the Bible and therefore I reject it! 'Holy Tradition', my foot! You are trusting your soul to MEN!

[n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8]

We believe what the Church recognizes as authoritative.

One question. By what authority do you accept the canon of the New Testament? Why are we to believe that the books of the New Testament are canonical? Who decided that those books were legitimate? It was the Church in the mid-4th century, a time when there was no such thing as Sola Scriptura Protestants or Protestant Theology. The Bible you use was put together by a bunch of "hell-bound Mary-worshiping idolatrous cannibalistic heretics."

[pennylaneproductions]

That the Bible is a 'Catholic book' is a foolish assertion. GOD preserved His word the way He wanted it. That they DARE to take credit for it and, even worse, feel they have the right to add to it is an evident token of their perdition.

[johndamascene]

So humans had no part in the composition of the Scriptures? If humanity has no role in salvation or in the faith, then why did God become incarnate if not for that very reason? Or do you deny this as well?

[pennylaneproductions]

Sure they did. But they wrote 'as they were moved by the Holy Ghost'. (2 Peter 1:21)

[n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8]

The canon you utilize was created in the 4th century (although the Reformers removed some books later on). If you are going to say everything taught in Christianity must be limited to Apostolic writings canonized roughly 350 years after Christ, then what was the authority of Christians before the 4th century? You are basically saying God created the sole source of Christian authority 350 years after Christ and it would take another 1000 years for someone to correctly interpret it.

[pennylaneproductions]

They HAD the OT and the epistles and an ACCURATE explanation of the simple gospel. Most of the complex theology in scripture is not needful to know for salvation.

[n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8n8]

They did have what you consider the OT with a few additional books that the Protestants removed based off the Masoretic post-Christian Hebrew canon. These extra books contain theology that Protestants reject such as praying for the dead.

Some of the New Testament documents that were considered Scripture like the Didache also contain theology Protestants reject such as referring to the Eucharist as a sacrifice.

[atorente]

muka mo... di pungal ka!!!

[RockyBalboa211]

God bless the catholic perspective which is right, yet it is awesome that you have your view.. but I will stick with mine, god bless!

[carpentersdaughter2]

Excellent presentation of why Mary should not be exhalted. Thank you.

[pennylaneproductions]

Thank YOU. I'm just getting started.