Writing DIY: The Craft and The Bullshit pt.2

[zac2491]

Wow this was a really good pair of videos. As an aspiring novilist I found a lot of interesting points here, I too am into the Fantasy genre.

[uoyevolotevol]

whoa! i know what you're talking about. that's julio cortázar, it's magical realism. i learned that genre in spanish in high school. that's cool that you're adapting a primarily latin american genre

[mandalastar]

I have a jillion guitar pieces that are dieing for lyrics.

[burnvictim77]

Is this simply a statement or a proposal of some sort?

[thedakkster]

If you like reading experimental stuff, you should check out Mark Danielewski's House of Leaves. It blew me away.

[burnvictim77]

You are the 2nd today to recommend it. I'll put it on my list.

[UpPaulsChannel]

i like the bit where the british fellow makes his big statement

[UpPaulsChannel]

i like the bit where mickey mouse finds dead guy's secret art.

[burnvictim77]

I do it all for you, Paul. Welcome back... again.

[UpPaulsChannel]

i like books with introspective handsome men and no magic. write one of them.

[burnvictim77]

There are no such beasts. If a man is both introspective AND handsome, he is by definition MAGIC. So what you are really saying is that you prefer Magical Realism.

[QuinnEGorges]

Interesting.  I find it rewarding to work on my writing, too. It's good to have discipline...although it's always a struggle for me :)

[ournationalspace]

talking about this stuff takes away a lot of energy from doing it - self reflection is as overrated as bingo: it's exciting at first, but then some old lady sitting behind you won't shut up and you miss when they call C2 and you're not sure if your son is picking you up at 7:30 or 8:00 and all of this is after watching the devil walk in, hang up his cape and slowly, with his thin red eyes, scan across the room - you always hope he doesn't catch your eyes, but you then become his burn victim #77

[penguinworm]

It's not that absolute. I write some things to clear my mind, I draw some things just to get better at drawing, and I create some lever-operated machinery just to appease the spirit of Archimedes. You see?

[burnvictim77]

The exceptions that prove the rule.

[Gimmeaflakeman]

Glad you said that. I've always thought people who say that they only make things (vids, music, paintings, etc.) for themselves are almost always full of shit.

[machtsnicht]

i've given your situation as a writer more thought. it seems that the most valid critique of your writing would be, does it say what you want it to say? i guess a good mix of readers who know you and your thinking process well, as well as those who don't, would best be able to reflect that to you, for you to judge? just a thought.

[D4Shawn]

I tried reading your novel "The Devil's Dune Buggy". I couldn't finish it. It just wasn't realistic... like the part where the monkeys stole the dune buggy from Satan... am I REALLY supposed to believe that a monkey can operate a motor vehicle (especially under the influence of absinthe). Yeah right!

[UpPaulsChannel]

this is a very very funny. if it's not a joke it still would be audatious funny and clever.

[machtsnicht]

sounds like an interesting writing technique, i'll have to check out the book myself, thanks for sharing. what piques my interest most are books (or art) that challenge me in the technique they are written (incl. poetry,) or thru their theme (fantasy, sci-fi, comedy, metaphysics.)

i agree art is communicative, but i think many artists cannot help themselves but to create; they are driven to it. just as another person is driven to make money, count beans, or express him/herself in another way.

[burnvictim77]

The fact that one may be driven to create doesn't belie that it is communicative. Anyway, that's always seemed to me to be fuzzy mumbo jumbo claptrap from the sort of people who want to mystify their audience or set themselves upon a pedestal: I'm not like the unwashed masses; I MUST CREATE! Fuck that. I write because I WANT to, not because I HAVE to.

[machtsnicht]

totally agree. i think i was referring more to the grey areas. your words are more precise than mine. i dont think many people engage in pursuits that they are driven to do without wanting to. i guess i was using the word 'driven' to mean that they really WANT to. i dont believe that art, or any creative expression, overcomes someone so entirely that they must do it regardless of all else. but i do see that artists vary in drive, so, some maybe (great?) artists arent so because of lack of drive.

[machtsnicht]

which rationally means that the reverse is hypothetically possible: lots of "eh" art exists because some artists are driven to make it.

[mrmortonblogs]

I disagree completely about the 'making things for others to see'. I write and tell stories because there is something inside me that needs that release. To create something from nothing.. the world in the palm of my hand sort of things.

The rush is from the creation itself, not from the reaction of others.

[burnvictim77]

Destroy everything you've written and I'll believe you.

[Rythsaad]

Hmm,I don't see how that would convince you.

Just like I don't see why you would consider that deep down all artists want their secret work exposed.

But nonetheless I can tell you a peculiar story from my own experience:

As a kid, 12-15 years old maybe but I can't be sure now, I had a secret portfolio of my own drawings and stuff and I only showed it to a select few and only under my own supervision. So once a certain someone took it without my permission, I tore almost all of my drawings apart.

[Rythsaad]

The drawings were good, they didn't have any true professional value but they had personal value to me. I was not ashamed of them but for some reason I felt violated, so I destroyed them.

Today I regret doing that but the action made sense to me then in my emotional outburst.

Believe it or not, does that scenario convince you?

[burnvictim77]

I don't know. I guess it doesn't convince me. I can be interpreted in several lights.

Art is the sort of communication we can take back before we utter it.

[Rythsaad]

Fair enough but then so can the situation with the dying artist who supposedly hopes his paintings to be found someday by someone. I personality tend not to be overly generalistic in these sorts of situations. I can never truly know what goes on in somebody else's head. The material representation of art certainly allows for the possibility of being exposed, doesn't mean it was the primary or otherwise subconscious intent of the artist.

[Rythsaad]

And yeah, art can be and definitely is a form of communication. But are you saying that art can truly obtain its status as art only when it is finally perceived and realised by outside observers other than the creator?

[burnvictim77]

Not knowing what is going on in someone's else head doesn't mean we can't base our opinions on what evidence and reason can lead us to understand. The goal is to able to create a work of communication. This doesn't take being seen by anyone else to make it "art"... it's the intent. The intent is expression, regarless of whether it is destroyed before another sees it or not.

[Rythsaad]

Absolutely. I have no argument there.

So even if it can't be purely either of the two, both - you and mrmortonblogs are right to an extent - the intent of either creation or communication can be a primary reason for art. And you certainly have the right to your own opinion based on the evidence you've encountered.

I guess you don't believe in teenage diaries. :p

[burnvictim77]

I do believe in teenage diaries. However, what they generally represent (without getting to far into the philosophy of self, here) is a communication between the "me" at 13 and the "me" at some later age. And I wouldn't call them art.

Nor would I call Kid Rock art, but that's a whole different conversation. :)

[Rythsaad]

I see...very well then.

Is Malevich's Black Square art? And what does it communicate?

[burnvictim77]

Ah, well, personally I see the Black Square and Blank Canvas as artistic statements, rather than works of art. They are basic exercises which shows us something about art and how we interpret it. However, they are really only singular elements and not full works, though I admit that is a very subjective distinction.

[Rythsaad]

Ok then, I think we can end it here.

Thank you.

[Huesos138]

Do you have a new camera?

[burnvictim77]

No. Why?