in a letter written soon afterwards, Messiaen tempted to explain what he had been doing: 'I am completely distraught that things did not happen according to your wishes. You asked me if I could play the first of Bach's Advent chorales at the beginning of the service. I did that. I was given no other instructions whatsoever. Seeing that Monsieur Bonnet had not arrived and not knowing the keys of the pieces with the small organ, or the time that you had set aside for me between these pieces,
Here's the complete reference: "In March [1933] Messiaen's relations with Nadia Boulanger, already strained, took a turn for the worse. Boulanger had invited Joseph Bonnet, the organist of Saint-Eustache,to play for her sister Lili's memorial service at the Trinité, but Bonnet failed to turn up, and as Messiaen was on hand he agreed to play. Boulanger disapproved of his improvisations and obviously made her feelings known;
Actually, since she died 15 March 1918, Messiaen was nine years old (his birthday as 10 December)...!
OK, here's the reference in Peter Hill's & Nigel Simeone's biography of Messiaen (pp. 49-50) I see now that the incident in question was over a "memorial service" in March 1933. So it was my mistake to call this her funeral, as it was obviously only a memorial liturgy on the 15th anniversary of Lili's death.
very interesting. great piece, never heard it before. great history too. Put two composers, or organists in any room, make bets to see who comes out alive, lol
The trouble was that she and her sister Lili were parishioners at the church where Messiaen was organist. When Lili died, Nadia specified that Messiaen should not be organist for the funeral. Messiaen consented and scheduled a substitute to play the funeral. But then the substitute backed out at the last minute, and Messiaen had to play after all. Nadia was furious. Messiaen wrote a polite letter apologizing and explaining what happened, but I gather Nadia was not assuaged.
I'm afraid the history can't be possible: Messiaen was born in 1908, he was only 10 y.o. when Lili died and even hadn't been an organist, he went to the Paris Conservatoire when he was 11.
Qu'est-ce que vous allez imaginer là? Messiaen n'avait que 9 ans quand Lili Boulanger est décédée et fut admis au Conservatoire à 11 ans, il n'était certainement pas titulaire de l'orgue de la Trinité et n'avait certe pas encore élaboré touts ses trucs et ses modes à transpositions limités et Nadia avait une trop grande noblesse pour faire ce genre de coups bas. Quelle est votre référence? Excusez moi de vous le dire, mais vous divaguez!
J'ai oublié de vous dire que Mademoiselle Boulanger vivait au 36 rue Ballu dans le 9ième arrondissement. Son église "de quartier" aurait été en principe La Madeleine plus bas vers la Concorde; elle en est d'ailleurs devenue Titulaire des Grandes Orgues Cavaillé-Coll, et plus haut de chez elle, Il y a le Sacré-Coeur à Montmartre. Elle se rendait à la Trinité (chapelle de la Ste-Vierge) pour commémorer la mémoirede sa soeur Lili et de sa mère, la princesse Mychetsky (a suivre)
Et Mademoiselle Boulangeait enseignait chez elle et au Conservatoire américain de Fontainbleau, elle était donc très souvent à la messe à l'église St-Louis de Fontainbleau, mais si ma mémoire est bonne elle était rattachée à La Madeleine. L'église de la Ste-Trinité la reliait parce que sa mère y avait eu son service funèbre dans cette église. Quand à Messiaen, même s'il n'existait pas musicalement à la mort de Lili, elle ne se se serait jamais permise de juger son oeuvre.
Messiaen's negative comments about Boulanger after her death must be understood in context. Nadia Boulanger pathologically despised Messiaen and his music.
Thank you for posting this! I have played through this piece on my harmonium a few times, and this performance is very inspiring. Is this a recording of Boulanger playing the piece? What instrument is heard, and where was the photo taken?
@Mustel1887 : Thank you! It was performed by me, on Notre-Dame de Metz Hauptwerk virtual organ. This photo was taken on January 7, 1925, at Philadephia Wanamaker store.
Did you know that at the funeral service of Mme Boulanger at Ste Trinité, Olivier Messiaen refused to play because she had composed 'ugly and worthless music lacking any talent'? ;)
@GJmusique I think there is more behind his comment--it's also true that Boulanger herself dismissed Messiaen's music as insignificant and incomprehensible, and that may be more the reason why he refused to honor her at the funeral service.
@diapasonabsolu: J'ai encore reconnu mon erreur, est j'ai recemment fait mes corrections ici, en anglais... citations du livre de Hill et Simeone.
MolnarPohdap 2 months ago
I thought that the wisest course was the improvise from start to finish. There you are! I am not to blame!'" (Hill, Simeone, op. cit., pp. 49-51).
MolnarPohdap 3 months ago
in a letter written soon afterwards, Messiaen tempted to explain what he had been doing: 'I am completely distraught that things did not happen according to your wishes. You asked me if I could play the first of Bach's Advent chorales at the beginning of the service. I did that. I was given no other instructions whatsoever. Seeing that Monsieur Bonnet had not arrived and not knowing the keys of the pieces with the small organ, or the time that you had set aside for me between these pieces,
MolnarPohdap 3 months ago
Here's the complete reference: "In March [1933] Messiaen's relations with Nadia Boulanger, already strained, took a turn for the worse. Boulanger had invited Joseph Bonnet, the organist of Saint-Eustache,to play for her sister Lili's memorial service at the Trinité, but Bonnet failed to turn up, and as Messiaen was on hand he agreed to play. Boulanger disapproved of his improvisations and obviously made her feelings known;
MolnarPohdap 3 months ago
Actually, since she died 15 March 1918, Messiaen was nine years old (his birthday as 10 December)...!
OK, here's the reference in Peter Hill's & Nigel Simeone's biography of Messiaen (pp. 49-50) I see now that the incident in question was over a "memorial service" in March 1933. So it was my mistake to call this her funeral, as it was obviously only a memorial liturgy on the 15th anniversary of Lili's death.
MolnarPohdap 3 months ago
Olivier Messiaen was 10 years old when Lili Boulanger died.
Gunnvalk 4 months ago
very interesting. great piece, never heard it before. great history too. Put two composers, or organists in any room, make bets to see who comes out alive, lol
bfs1888 4 months ago
The trouble was that she and her sister Lili were parishioners at the church where Messiaen was organist. When Lili died, Nadia specified that Messiaen should not be organist for the funeral. Messiaen consented and scheduled a substitute to play the funeral. But then the substitute backed out at the last minute, and Messiaen had to play after all. Nadia was furious. Messiaen wrote a polite letter apologizing and explaining what happened, but I gather Nadia was not assuaged.
MolnarPohdap 5 months ago
@MolnarPohdap : Thank you for this info!
mrSymphonic 5 months ago
@MolnarPohdap
I'm afraid the history can't be possible: Messiaen was born in 1908, he was only 10 y.o. when Lili died and even hadn't been an organist, he went to the Paris Conservatoire when he was 11.
bartk07 3 months ago
@MolnarPohdap
Qu'est-ce que vous allez imaginer là? Messiaen n'avait que 9 ans quand Lili Boulanger est décédée et fut admis au Conservatoire à 11 ans, il n'était certainement pas titulaire de l'orgue de la Trinité et n'avait certe pas encore élaboré touts ses trucs et ses modes à transpositions limités et Nadia avait une trop grande noblesse pour faire ce genre de coups bas. Quelle est votre référence? Excusez moi de vous le dire, mais vous divaguez!
diapasonabsolu 2 months ago
@MolnarPohdap
J'ai oublié de vous dire que Mademoiselle Boulanger vivait au 36 rue Ballu dans le 9ième arrondissement. Son église "de quartier" aurait été en principe La Madeleine plus bas vers la Concorde; elle en est d'ailleurs devenue Titulaire des Grandes Orgues Cavaillé-Coll, et plus haut de chez elle, Il y a le Sacré-Coeur à Montmartre. Elle se rendait à la Trinité (chapelle de la Ste-Vierge) pour commémorer la mémoirede sa soeur Lili et de sa mère, la princesse Mychetsky (a suivre)
diapasonabsolu 2 months ago
@MolnarPohdap
Et Mademoiselle Boulangeait enseignait chez elle et au Conservatoire américain de Fontainbleau, elle était donc très souvent à la messe à l'église St-Louis de Fontainbleau, mais si ma mémoire est bonne elle était rattachée à La Madeleine. L'église de la Ste-Trinité la reliait parce que sa mère y avait eu son service funèbre dans cette église. Quand à Messiaen, même s'il n'existait pas musicalement à la mort de Lili, elle ne se se serait jamais permise de juger son oeuvre.
diapasonabsolu 2 months ago
Messiaen's negative comments about Boulanger after her death must be understood in context. Nadia Boulanger pathologically despised Messiaen and his music.
MolnarPohdap 5 months ago
Thank you for posting this! I have played through this piece on my harmonium a few times, and this performance is very inspiring. Is this a recording of Boulanger playing the piece? What instrument is heard, and where was the photo taken?
Mustel1887 6 months ago
@Mustel1887 : Thank you! It was performed by me, on Notre-Dame de Metz Hauptwerk virtual organ. This photo was taken on January 7, 1925, at Philadephia Wanamaker store.
mrSymphonic 6 months ago
Does anyone know where I might locate the score to this wonderful piece?
racoonpatrol 11 months ago
@racoonpatrol : You can get it here: e-partitions.servhome.org
mrSymphonic 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@racoonpatrol Score now available on IMSLP :) :) :) !!! I'd just downloaded and have been playing. I love that and can't stop.
bartk07 3 months ago
Did you know Mademoiselle Boulanger hated all of her pieces, she was overcritical.
Sesquiltera 1 year ago
@Sesquiltera
I knew she was far too critical and lacking in self-confidence, but that she hated all of her music, I didn't know that!
mrSymphonic 1 year ago
@mrSymphonic
Did you know that at the funeral service of Mme Boulanger at Ste Trinité, Olivier Messiaen refused to play because she had composed 'ugly and worthless music lacking any talent'? ;)
GJmusique 1 year ago
@GJmusique
Well, it's a bit shocking to me, to hear this... I've always believed Messiaen to have been a very nice person.
But, if such an attitude came from Dupré, for instance, it wouldn't really be surprising to me... :)
mrSymphonic 1 year ago
@GJmusique I think there is more behind his comment--it's also true that Boulanger herself dismissed Messiaen's music as insignificant and incomprehensible, and that may be more the reason why he refused to honor her at the funeral service.
gregnudd 7 months ago
I LOVE IT !!
jeanseborg 1 year ago
@jeanseborg
Delighted!
mrSymphonic 1 year ago
Gorgeous!
Skoogorganist 1 year ago 2
@Skoogorganist
You're too kind!!!
mrSymphonic 1 year ago