Added: 2 years ago
From: EricTheCarGuy
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  • ericthecarguy...... are these the same steps on a 94 accord????

  • I've been working on my own vehicles for years, everything I've learned about cars is by actually touching them, and having some mechanical aptitude. It may sound crazy, but this video is a great information tool. I only watched it to learn how. All the braking systems I've worked on have had free floating rotors. THANK YOU!!

  • Have you ever used a hub shark/ hub tamer?

  • I like the way you work giving attention to small details which help out like cleaning and applying lube. Thanks!

  • Greatjob because that job cost 360

  • Eric, question for you. I followed your video but did the lower ball joint last and it won't budge. Does it matter what order I undo the ball joints? I have tried everything and no matter how much I pound on it I can't git it to give. I also have the spindle nut off, all I need is to get that last ball joint to come lose. Thanks for your help.

  • can you do a video on how to change a ball joint?

  • THANKS FOR THE VIDEO!!! i found the bolt idea to be easier then the hub puller. thumbs up!

  • Hey eric, just wondering , what kind of air impact gun do you use?

  • If you don't have those longer 10mm x 1.25 bolts how can you remove the rotor from the knuckle...I have everything off like you have but the rotor won't budge for nothing.

  • What does the "G" and "L" mean?

  • One more thing, my mechanic called and asked why I hadn't brought it in and when I told him I did it myself, he was shocked and asked me how I got the bearing out, he said he sends them out to be done he can't do it. I told him your trick of putting in the larger bolts n tapping out. He was impressed. When told I cut the bearing race off of the hub with my little dremel, he was equally shocked. LOL Oh, and I did all this with a ratchet set, I don't have the fancy gun you have. Thanks again Eric!

  • This was awesome! I've never seen bearings/rotors embedded like this. I planned on replacing the bearings and it wasn't until I went to the auto parts store I realized I had no clue how to do this! Thought it would be simple like jobs past. I watched your video about five times before giving it a go. It took most of the day but as the sun went down, I had new bearings and rotor! Saved me a good $300+! Thank you so much for putting in the time to teach us poor saps how to fix our junk. God bless.

  • Thanks for the Video local tire shop broke to stud and tried to charge me $190 to fix it. You just saved me hours of fiddling with my 91 accord.

  • Another great resource video Eric, looks like you hit a sore spot with some local mechanic .. I mean ‘Field Engineer’. I would take my auto to a shop if the butt heads didn’t charge $120 an hour for their ‘Privileged information’.. That dude is pissed because you are cutting into his greasy business.

    Thanks again for yet another great video.

  • Thanks for taking the time Eric. You rock!

  • i have a 94 civic and my wheel bearing are bad for the driver side. would it be almost the same as this accord to change it??

  • You are the best Eric. Thank You :D

  • looks like a very involved process. more work that i would want to do. i have done lots of rotors and bearings on lots of cars/trucks, many different ways, noe quite like this. i see you wear those latex gloves, don't you find they restrict your hands and your sense of touch? i only wear them where its going to be a really greasy job, otherwise not, if i'm doing something by touch only, no sight i can't wear them, and i find there is no grip on the finger tips with them either, your opinion?

  • You were totally lucky with that one. I had to take mine to a local hangar were they had a massive press. I got it out but bent a piece of one inch thick steel in the process. Buy the hub-over conversion kit people it fixes Hondas mistake. My advise find a local steel forge and ask to watch them melt your old bearing and rotor. This will make you feel better than any drug ever could.

  • You are an asshole for posting this vid. Not all shops have crooked mechanics. Alot of this is privileged information, if you can't read a shop manual and DIY then don't do it at all. And there are enough idiots out there screwing up their own shit, we don't need videos giving people more self confidence to attempt it. But thats ok im a field engineer so all you ASE MT's come to me for questions when all else fails. oh and btw there is about 3 different ways to take those rotors off.

  • @imacowtipper1 Calm down dude, a lot of people simply enjoy learning how things work and are competent enough to fix things and save a lot of money by not going to have their cars worked on by a field engineer like yourself. I guess Haynes, Chilton, and Helms are assholes too since they publish books that tell people how to fix EVERYTHING on their cars. /rolls eyes

  • @wheelbite14 apparently you didn't read it correctly...I said if you can't read a shop manual and DIY then don't mess with it. I have no problem with people buying repair manuals, Next time you try to talk to someone in a condescending manner, make sure you know what your talking about./rolls eyes

  • Your a great mechanic, good job one of the reasons that I need to learn how to do this stuff myself is that I dont trust any of the mechanics around where I live. But I would trust you to work on my car. Plus of course the worst part is always that ungodly number.

  • @Raptorman5174 Yea in a way that's kind of how I got started doing this years ago. Thanks for your comment and good luck.

  • i am doing this job for a customer next week on a '95 accord. Its never had its brakes touched before............ wish me luck!

  • @Electromachines Good luck. Know that you don't HAVE to replace the rotors unless they are below spec, you could machine them on the car with a specially designed lathe instead.

  • Saving my life with this video...stupid Hondas...what a dumb design

  • @mbraun145 I'm happy to be of assistance. Thanks for the comment.

  • thanks, this video was really helpfull.

  • @Jaguarh1208 I love to hear that my videos are helpful, thanks for the comment.

  • Been trying to figure this out all day...not too bad. Appreciate it...

  • @jhonburke626 I'm happy to help. Thanks for the comment.

  • Very helpful !!

  • Great video, I like a lot THANK´S................for your Help

  • @herickpalomo2010 You're most welcome, thanks for the comment.

  • wow these rotors are a pain in the ass.

  • @dumapies Yea they can be.

  • hey man, thanks for the video. very informative and very clear.

  • @dafuzman Glad you liked it, thanks for the comment.

  • Thanks for the vid. I need to do the brakes on my '96 accord and has warped brake rotors. will need to take time to do them all...don't have the vice.

  • @daleschmidtsr You may not need to remove them, if there is enough material left to the rotor you could take them somewhere to be machined with an on-the-car brake lathe and save yourself a lot of headache. Good luck.

  • You have helped me so much. Thanks for all you do !

  • @Rager03 You're welcome, thanks for the comment.

  • Thanks for taking the time to make this video. Not too many mechanics would do what you do to help DIY'ers like me

    Are the 12 point bolts that need to be removed 10 mm? Also is the axle nut 36mm?

    Just waiting for a dry day outside to get this done. Check out my " WTF Motorized Bike" on You TUbe

  • @boell4grumpa I believe the 12pts are 10mm and the axle nut needs a 36mm socket. Thanks for the comment.

  • Do you have any experience with a 96 jeep grand Cherokee? It's leaking from behind the oil filter housing. I can see it clearly and have access to it from the top. Is this something I need special tools for or can I do this in my garage in a couple hours? I think the o ring set costs like $4.00 at the local parts store.

  • @mario111876 Not sure 'what' is leaking but it sounds like you have a handle on it. Honestly I have limited experience with those vehicles.

  • @mario111876 One other thing to consider - a lot of the inline-6 Jeeps have the oil press. sender positioned very close to the oil filter, and when the sender gets old, it becomes very brittle (body of it is plastic, only the base and attachment point is metal) and even the lightest knock from a misplaced oil filter wrench will break it in half. So be sure that 1. it's not leaking fro the sender; and 2. DON'T hit the sender when servicing the oil filter housing...if you do, oil, oil, everywhere.

  • Thank you Eric. They came rite off. You were 100% correct. I even did the ball joints on the front end as well and they came off a little too easy with a couple wackes. I was wondering if you knew. I herd some people talking of an acura cl that the front knuckle bolts rite to the 90 to 93 accord that doesn't have that captive rotor. Have you herd of such a thing? The next time I have to do rotors on this I would just rather go to the junk yard and get that knuckle to replace everything.

  • @mario111876 The CL has the same brake set up as the Accord in fact they are the same car but later models had a different brake set up that also fits that car. Honestly I don't know the exact year that you need. Personally I think it would be a waste of time especially since you already did the job once, it makes it easier to do the job again in the future if you need to.

  • This video was very helpful. It goes exactly like the video. I was wondering if you can make one on how to do the rear hub and bearing on this same model. I have the rear drum model.

  • @mario111876 If you can do this you'll laugh at the rear bearing as all you need do is remove the brake drum and the center nut and the assembly comes right off. I do hope to make a video on that as well as the style of bearing that is held in with a snap ring when the opportunity presents itself. Good luck and thanks for the comment.

  • Thanks Eric.I work in a busy shop and was planning on buying

    the removal tool kit for captive rotors.After watching this video

    there's no need to spend $400 on a tool that would be used

    occassionally.Thanks again!

  • @goldbroker You might also consider borrowing one, some auto parts stores loan those out but the stuff shown in this video will also work just as well.

  • So how hard are the back rotors to do? Are they just 'slip old ones off, slip new ones on'? And whats a good price to pay for a rotor and everything else while not breaking the bank?

    As long as I'm changing the front ones I will change the back ones and all the brake pads.

  • @awefilledcreep The rear rotors just slip off but you may have to deal with the screws that hold them on, I've done a video to help with that. As for pricing I don't normally get into that sorry.

  • @EricTheCarGuy ok thanks.

    instead of pricing then, what signs should i look for in good rotors then? there are ones with the special surfaces and then the smooth ones, which are better? and are there any other signs of good or decent rotors to look for? that way i dont have to do all this all over again.

  • my lug stud snapped in my 97 accord, and it works out perfectly because i bought rotors for it a few months back and left them in my trunk because i thought this would be so annoying! now i can finally put them in and fix my damn stud. thanks man

  • @dabears232323 I'm happy to know the video helped you, thanks for your comment and good luck.

  • your my favorite.

    

  • @dontflarteryourself Your mine too.

  • Can I get a kit to switch it to normal, u kno, so I don't hav to do tht every time?

  • @bluewhale8888 Yes you can but in my opinion it's a waste of time and money, as you normally only have to do this once, they make an on-the-car brake lathe that makes cutting these easy on the car if there is enough metal left.

  • thanks Eric, good job

  • @livinglikeaking Thank YOU for the comment.

  • as always,,,great job...what size were those bolts that you used with the air hammer it get the hub out? bearing assembly i mean....

  • as always,,,great job...what size were those bolts that you used with the air hammer it get the hub out?

  • @hondaslave I THINK they were 10x1.25.

  • Eric! Dude, thanks so much for these videos. I got a free 91 accord with 200 k miles that hadn't run in 2 years. Without these vids man, I wouldn't have been able to do it properly!! Quick ?: I took it to get an alignment once everything was done and I asked the guy to torque up my axel spindle nuts. I dont know what setting he used, but when I got home there was some smoke coming from the tire. It it possible he over torqued it? Would that cause smoke from the CV joint/bearing/spindle?

  • @trogsdor That sounds more like a sticking caliper as roller wheel bearings like to be torqued pretty good.

  • Thanks for making a very helpful video. i got to change brake rotors and pads on my 97 accord.

  • @WildBillDaFly129 Comments like this are my favorite as it means I've done my job right.

  • A few questions: is it safe to reuse the ball joint and tie rod ends after you've beat them with a hammer? Also, would it be helpful to loosen up the bearing with a torch, or to use a shop press to just push it out?

  • @wc4pwned You don't hit the ball joint or tie rods directly, just what they go through, do this and you can reuse them without a problem. NEVER heat a bearing assembly as you WILL damage it. Because of the awkward nature of these parts it's almost impossible to put them in a press to perform this procedure in my experience.

  • all that bs just to replace rotos, thank god i have GM cars.

  • @ad356 Too bad I'm replacing all the same parts on my GM with 150,000 miles when my Honda has 300,000. Seems like a fair trade.

  • @ric03014 300,000 miles on a set of rotors, i dont care where the car was made i call BS on that. rotors are pretty much all made the same. i just did all of the brakes on my cavalier and the rotors were 20 bucks a piece. rotors for a honda cost twice as much. the only reason why i had to replace the rotors is because the salt beat them up. i like my little chevy

  • Nice job Eric.

    Is the procedure similar for the rear rotors?

  • @dgdoc No those just come right off like regular rotors.

  • holly damn! I thought it's as easy as break pads :(

  • I JUST BOUGHT A 94 ACCORD EX AND THE BRAKES ALL AROUND ARE REALLY BAD, DOWN TO METAL, THE CAR ONLY HAS 75K ORIGINAL MILES. ANYWAYS, WHEN I START THE VEHICLE EVERYTHING IS PERFECT ABOUT 30-40 MINS INTO THE DRIVING THE ABS LIGHT COMES ON AND STAYS ON UNTIL I SHUT THE CAR OFF AND IF I RESTART THE ENGINE THE LIGHT IS GONE, AND I DO HEAR THE HYDRULIC PUMP MAKING A WEIRD NOISE EVERY 5 MINUTES I'LL SAY.....ANY ADVISE OR COMMENT WILL BE HELPFULL. I HAVE NOT REPLACE THE ROTORS AND PADS YET.

  • @8000RPMS It sounds like your going to have to replace the brakes no matter what. As for the ABS issue you need to start by pulling the code, short the blue 2 pin connector under the glove box and turn the key to the ON position and count the blinks of the ABS light, once you have that code you will be able to start fixing the ABS problem. Good luck.

  • @EricTheCarGuy .......THANKS ALOT BRO, IT'S REALLY AMAZING HOW YOU PUT THESE HELPFUL VIDEOS....I'VE LEARNED ALOT!!! THANKS FOR THE ADVISED.

  • @8000RPMS Your welcome, thanks for the comments.

  • If I'm just removing the disc rotor and not the bearing is there an easier way or a way to avoid having to removing the whole assembly from the car. Like just removing the axle nut and the bolts that go thru the rotor into the bearing assembly? Or would I still need to remove those 4 bolts from the back side that you removed before to put those hardened bolts into?

  • @kordril This is how it's done unfortunately, hence the name "captive rotors".

  • @EricTheCarGuy yea...I was hoping it was just the axle nut and those 4 bolts on the front side making it "captive." Thanks Eric for the quick response though...I will definitely be asking you questions in the future if the need arises. I'm just amazed that you actually take the time to answer all these questions. I've hardly seen informative service like this from people whom I've paid money. Maybe that's why I do so much work on cars on my own these days...Stayin Dirty LOL.

  • U SHOULD SO DO A HONDA SWAP VIDEO?

  • @SNEAKGANG What does that mean?

  • @EricTheCarGuy hes asking about a honda engne swap...like a 1.8 integra engine in a normal 1.6 civic...

  • thank you so much for this video, unfortunately though this has given me less hope on saving money on my car.

  • Hey Eric, I thought everything was all good but now when the car comes to a stop or when the car accelerates there is a single clunk sound coming from the front end...any ideas what I might have done wrong? Thanks.

  • @CHEVYJOE65 Not sure really, go back and check your work to see if anything is loose or damaged.

  • Way cool dude...I'm an old chevy guy & figured all rotors came off the same way until I offered to help a friend change his brakes on his 96 accord. Needless to say I was totally lost...your video saved my ass! Thanks allot man ..keep it nice n shiney!

  • @CHEVYJOE65 I love the old Chevy's too and I'm happy I was able to help you with my video. Thanks for the comment.

  • Eric, thank you for making this video. Big, big help to me. You have a star-like quality. They should give you a show on speed channel or something. Later dude.

  • @yukenet That might be fun, thanks very much for the comment.

  • WOW Thats a lot of work for one rotor. I didnt know about this type of rotor before... Im far from a mechanic though hehe.

  • Very impressed by the video. Only question is what is the torque specs for the bolts? Currently working on a car that a tire repair facility over torqued the rotors when installing them and created a very bad vibration in the front end.

  • @badtennbear I don't think the bolt torque is as important as the lug nut torque in that situation, lugs should be torqued to 80lbft.

  • Great vid. You remind me of the guy from "Dirty Jobs" when you explain everything on the video.

  • @Stx1igor I love that show. Thanks for the comment.

  • the rotors went exactly like your video showed...thank you soooooo much! Luckily I live in CA where theres no salt, and the bearings came free of the hub no problem at all!(with an air chisel) I used 10x1.25 threaded bolts for the hub removal and they worked fantastic. Wire wheel cleaned them up like a dream and reassembly was a breeze. You saved me close to $300 youre a savior

  • @loudog040 I love comments like this, thanks very much for posting it.

  • Any chance you could clue me in on what those bolts were you used for threading into the hub and air chiseling the hub free? Just cause Im remote and itll save me a trip to the hardware store once I opened up the front end. Thanx again

  • @loudog040 I think they are 10x1.25 but I don't remember for sure.

  • What are the chances that I need to replace Rotors and Wheel Bearings on my 1990 Accord lx and you have a video for it?!?!?!? this vid is a BIG help! how much would Bearings run me??? thanks alot man

  • @SKYBIRDoesTheDirt I don't discuss pricing sorry. Good luck with the job though.

  • Man I PRAY mine goes as smooth as yours. I have the air chisel and have checked for new bearings at Napa in case I ruin one. Thank you for an excellently detailed video

  • @loudog040 Good luck, I know you'll do fine. Thanks for the comment.

  • Thats exactly what i do. have you ever noticed that when you hit the lower control arm to get the ball joint loose that sometimes the ball joint starts to pop out of the knuckle?

  • @klfer It shouldn't if the snap ring is installed but I have seen that in the past. Thanks for the comment.

  • Nice job Eric

    Keep it on and you will be great guy.

    Oh yah, stay dirty.

    Thanks for the video.

  • @NissanAltima2005 Thank YOU for the great comment.

  • Thanks Eric your video is a lot better than the Haynes manual that just says remove the rotor assy.

    I appreciate your detailed video and advice. Thanks Again

  • @Digginitdog Your most welcome, thanks for the comment.

  • Just curious, would this procedure be the same for an '05 Accord?

  • @axxonn01 Actually no, they stopped using that set up around 99 I think. Yours should just come off after you take out the rotor screws, I did a video on that if it helps.

  • This is just what I was looking for. Do the ball joints really come off that easy, and what size is the spindle nut? I have a 92 accord.

  • @spartacuss100 Sometimes they do. The axle nut is 36mm on this car.

  • to get a job go here ->careerstarts.info<-

  • Great Job Eric! 

  • 8 or 10 mm?

    

  • @SLIMBO5 I think the bolts are 8mm but I don't remember for sure.

  • @SLIMBO5 My 95 Accord took 10mm, just bought them tonight. Thanks Eric, always great stuff; quite a service you're providing!!

  • @plairofpires Sweet, thanks for the update on that. You are most welcome and thanks for the comment.

  • im a female....... and i got exactly how you did this,,, and fallowed it exactly step by step... and got it done... thanks for the video's

  • @SarahGibson1986 It's my sincerest hope that my daughter is just as confident when she grows up about such things. Thanks very much for your comment.

  • Any idea what thread and pitch those hub retaining bolts are. i have to do one this weekend and want to get bolts ahead of time.

  • @SLIMBO5 I think 1.25.

  • Thanks so much for this--saved my ass doing this project over the weekend.

  • @ruok5555 I'm happy to help, thanks for the comment.

  • EricTheCarGuy we didnot realize that the heads were shorter but im just sayin they fit

  • Your videos rock dude! I did this job a while back when I was tearing everything apart to change the clutch. With over 180k miles on the clock, I figured it was time for bearings too. While I was in there, I switched to the Acura TL hubs, and used Prelude VTEC brakes. It is a pretty common swap for the Accord. It gives you 11" rotors instead of the stock 10" and rotor over hub so the next rotor change is a snap! Keep up the awesome how to's! I'll be doing the IACV and EGR cleaning soon!

  • @Tquick9 That is a common swap a lot of people ask me about well done. I'm glad you like the videos and thanks for the comment.

  • i loved the vid only thing u could have done different was say that the 4 "special bolts" are just regular 10mm 12 points /// our only prob was the big nut

  • @freakshow3850 They aren't 'regular' as they have recessed heads, if you try and use 'regular' ones they may stick up too far and cause a problem when you try and install the wheel.

  • @EricTheCarGuy we used any old 3/8 drive with any old 12 pt socket no prob

  • @freakshow3850 I stand corrected, I was under the impression the bolt heads were recessed for clearance reasons as if you look at the stock fasteners they have shorter heads on them than regular fasteners.

  • I ended up puttin wheels back on, lowered car and used socket an a breaker bar. bar is only like 2ft long. Got one side off, but other side WONT budge. I keep moving the car an tire even with it on the ground. Also cant get lower ball to let go after removing nut! Sorry to be a pain, but ur saving my ass! Thanx man!

  • @charlottetache In the video I show setting the parking brake to keep it from moving, it does help. One more thing you can try is to jack the car up by the breaker bar, this way you use the weight of the car to break it loose, see the video I did on installing a spare tire for that method.

  • love the vid. am finding out hard way this wasnt like every other brake job. For some reason tho the center nut wont budge, wont loosen AT ALL. with an impact or other ways (breaker bar). I cant stop axle from spinning to looosen that center nut!!! Would love a reply, but im goin back out to try again...

  • @charlottetache Watch the axle replacement video for tips on that. Good luck.

  • Hi Eric, Thank you for your very helpful videos all the way from Manila!

    Anyway, I have a 97 Accord that needs front brake rotor replacement. Is this the same way one would do it for my car?

  • haha ... i little more browsing and you already have a video that answers my question. Thanks man!

  • @markmbarrios Instant answers, I like it.

  • @markmbarrios If it's a 4 cylinder yes, if it's a V6 no.

  • @markmbarrios Hello Manila!  If it's a 4 cylinder Accord yes this is how it is done, if it's a 6 cylinder they just slide off like most other rotors.

  • Great video man! Helped me out of the hole i was in. lol Thanks for the video. Keep them coming.

  • @parisianblue25 Glad I could help, thanks for the comment.

  • Hey Eric, THANK YOU so much for this vid! Got a 91 Accord, trying to get through inspection. Rotors failed. Followed your instructions to the letter, job DONE! :) The only thing you might want to add is that the hub nut can be a bitch to remove. I used a 1/2" drive, 18" breaker bar, 36mm socket, 5' length of steel pipe, slid the pipe over the breaker bar, supported the socket/extension with a jack, put down pressure on the pipe and whacked on the bar. Took 3 days and it FINALLY broke free.

  • @db587 Glad the video helped. BTW I've actually done videos on axle nut removal as well as another version of this video where I show how to do these on the car. Thanks for the comment.

  • @delfin23o This is by far my favorite kind of comment, thanks for posting it.

  • Hay Eric just checked out the how to on replacing the Honda rotors perfect to the letter!!!!!!

    Thank a BUNCH.

    Alex, San Diego

  • @1aceriv I'm glad you found the video helpful and thank you for the comment Alex!

  • perfect!!!!!!

  • Good informative video! Thanks for the help, on my sons Accord!

  • @Thesound176 I'm happy to help, thanks for the comment.

  • Hi Eric, There is a tool out there that will allow you to chnge the rotor in 3 minutes on-car. I have been a tech for 40 years and it is the best., Don;t remember the name but is in all the tool catalogs. Nice video

  • @boaterbil Well if it involves slide hammering the hub out and splitting the bearing I don't recommend that as I've seen that ruin more than one set of bearings. Thanks for the comment.

  • Love this video,It was great guide,and now I can take the whole thing apart in just a few minutes with just hand tools.I don't have a bench vise,but I have a work table with several different sized holes drilled into the top.I held the knuckle up by hand,then rested the lower ball joint stud inside one of the holes on the table to keep knuckle steady while holding it up.Using the longer bolt trick works great!Smacked the bearing right out of the knuckle with a few good whacks at the rear.

  • @96HondaEX5Speed Good deal, thanks for the comment and for your story I really enjoyed your ingenuity.

  • thanks you are the best :-)

  • @peluquin29 Thank YOU for that great comment.

  • Eric,

    Much thanks for this video. Would not beleave it if I didn't get into doing new rotors for our Zippy Race team car 613 for "24 Hours of Lemons" WHAT A PAIN!! Could not do this at the track! Again, THANKS for this info.

  • @5ZIPPYS Yea this would not be a quick turn around at the track. Thanks for the comment.

  • so how do i make rotors LAST?

  • @Ryandavis33 Buy quality ones for starters. It really comes down to what they are made of, think about it they get very hot and are expected to cool quickly over and over again, if the metal that they are made from is not up to the task they won't be able to do that very well and as a result won't last as long.

  • @steelheadvalley It's nice to know that my videos can offset a sucky situation. I've done another video on this where I show how to do it on the car that might interest you.

  • oh my goshhh this was a godsend...my husband would of been lost with out it

  • @theonlymom I'm very happy to have been able to help, thanks for your comment.

  • great video

  • @metalxesp Thank you!

  • Eric, I love you, absolutely the best how to video I've ever watched. You made my day, so much easier. Thank you much!!!! God Bless Man!!!

  • @rotorfreak7 I'm very happy to help and I thank you very much for your comment. I've also posted a video on how to do this on the car if that helps. Good luck and thanks again.

  • thanks alot eric...........i'm on the fence about doing "backyard" style.....but, i think i'm gonna give it a whirl. y