CCR and Vulcan Society on DemocracyNow: Win case vs FDNY

[jab7168]

Hey Gauroofis....how many black judges are there? Sure doesn't relect the city. Step down you friggin hypocrite.

[keefwannabe93]

Fuck the vulcans, not because they called the FDNY racist (which they're not).

But because I thought it was Spock who was suing the FDNY. Turns out it was just a bunch of whiny black guys!

[QCFrankC7]

The vulcans are a joke

[Bxdeutch]

not just the bottom f the list.....also the bottom rung of the ladder...The lack of pride amazes me...Why is the corrections dept, MTA, meter maids not considered discriminatory towards whites? Welfare in nyc almost entirely a minority problem(mainly black), see any correlation?

[aujax]

You need to read and write well to be a fireman. We inspect buildings three times a week and write violation orders, summonses and notices of violations. We also have to keep the house journal up to date clearly and accurately. Officers must write reports and communicate clearly to his firemen during training and drills. All members should have a strong command of the language to be able to understand training materials. Officers and chiefs also write articles on firefighting.

[aaaffa2008]

If you have a racist attitude you shouldn't be a Firefighter either. Using stereotypes and suggesting race wars is not only ignorant, wrong and self-destructive, but unconstitutional as well.

Please people listen to what the argument is and look at the facts. It is not just a test, it is a process problem. The city and department's diversity goals for a city department are not being met and that is a problem.

[mebigusmall123]

@aaaffa2008 Why is that a problem. Changing reality would be unfair. The people who want to be firefighters get to be, why is it so bad that black people don't want to be firefighters?. Idealists Wanting the FDNY to look a certain way is racist. Why would you try and encourage one race more than another.

[ff621]

In FDNY Is not just the Test that's messed up, it's the whole process.Even if you pass with a high score they screw you on the other things.

[soupy3185]

This man says the job isn't as dangerous as people think. I don't know how he could say that when 3 firefighters in his battalion died over the past few years.

[soupy3185]

This man says the job isn't as dangerous as people think. I don't know how he could say that when 3 firefighters in his battalion died over the past few years.

[baileybull1]

i took that 99 test and got a 97. i never got a 97 on any test in HS. any literate person can pass that test. one question had a map and the question was: if you make 3 right turns, what street will you be on? another question was: a picture of a sailboat in the water with a BIG picture of the wind direction. which way is the boat moving/ N S E W? ALL questions were this easy. Test was super easy. physical is where many of my friends fell short. i ve been on job for several years now

[A550RGY]

I want my firemen to do well on both written tests AND field tests. Problem solved. End of story.

[giterdungal]

shut up. FDNY isnt racist. just because ur too dumb to pass a common sense test doent mean its racist. and besides we shouldnt make the tests easier. thats just puting lives on the line.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

I'm Done , Good luck in high school kid. Maybe one day you can grow up and be the next Obama.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

How is the test biased"? What makes it unfair? You say that a written exam is no way of determining whether one will be a good fireman or not. SO tell me, what about all of the whites and Asians in the last 11 years who failed these Horrible irrelivant pointless reading tests??? Whhat about them? Are they not entitled to the same compensation? Why is it a BLACK thing? In what way shape or form is the test biased towards them?

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Since you have gotten yourself in a debate on a topic you truly know nothing about and continue to speak as if you have any clue at all.....my last question is "

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

The black fireman I worked with were no dummies and could pass that written test in their sleep. It's time to stop the complaining and whining.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

If you're saying that a written exam is discriminatory against blacks, then you must follow that claim with saying that you believe black people are less intelligent than whites and asians. One follows the other.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

I've already wasted enough time in my life debating this with you. I have 3 sons who are older than you and I raised them all not make excuses for themselves. actually, one of my sons wants to be a fireman but he, as well as I, has been discouraged over trials like this. I don't blame him.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Noone can eb blamed for resentment or not respecting these lucky individuals

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Now here's where it gets really interesting. Those same guys who receive all this free stuff compliments of affirmative action and bigots - the are joining fire companies with 50 other men who will all have less seniority than them. They will know that these men are mostly there for a free ride from the city. Who would turn down a check for close to a million dollars and only having to work 9 years and THEN be able to RETIRE!!.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Lets talk facts since you love speaking in theory and fantasy.

1) THis court ruling wants to give black fireman 10 years back pay for work they never did.

2) It would give the fireman who took the exam in 1999 ELEVEN years seniority.

3) They would be able to retire with a full pension in 9 years.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

I'm will to take a guess and say you've never been inside a fire station nor have help a real job. When you say you work hard does that mean "studying for miterms in highschool".

Things works differently than they appear on paper. In the real world, there are serious consequences for doing the things people like you consider "equality" or "helping out".

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Well, since you are saying your farewell, allow me to do the same.

First off, I am 54 years old. I was a police offer for 5 years and a fireman for 27.

You said you were 17 and i's expect nothing less. Society and schools are pushing the same beliefs and morals you were standing up for here. You want more with doing less. Hmmmm It would only take a genius to figure out who you would have voted for in 2008.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

GROW UP!! Stop being LAZY! This lawsuit is as redicules as me sueing the NBA for not enough Hispanic representation. I think I'm gonna do that now. Why not? Who says how well you shoot, run, and how high you jump determine how well of a player you would be?

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

As I would also be ashamed if a puerto rican was telling the city that our group are not smart enough to pass reading comprehension exams and are too lazy to take the initiative to go out and find an FDNY job application themselves.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

You still have not come up with any good solution? How would you like to alter the process? Tell me! Get rid of the written?? So anotherwards you're saying black people are stupider but better athletes? Now That is a racist view. All the black fireman I know (except 1 Piece of shit) are great well rounded guys not looking to embarrass their people.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

What could be more legit? As of right now, any fireman (who did no slip through the cracks) should feel proud he completed all that. It's shows he's qualified and had to break his ass to earn something he really wanted. he can also rest assured knowing he can READ!!

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Step 5 - Medical - Full physical (are you healthy, can you perform your job, are you expected to be sufficient in physically do it)

Step 6 - FIre Academy - A 6 month long intense Marine style training. It tests you mentally and physically. Most importantly, it questions your desire and motivation for obtaining the job

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Step 4 - background check (criminal record - I know of course you would argue that blacks have a higher chance of having a criminal record. TOO BAD. The city doesnt wanted anyone convicted of a felony!

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Step 1 - Written exam ( basic reading understanding) aka are you are moron.or not? Have you ever read a book in your life.

Step 2 - Physical exam ( an intense obstacle course including multiple tasks performed in the field)

Step 3 - Psychological exam (are you insane, unstable, troubled, not able to work with others)

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

My brother has served two terms in Iraq. He has been in the Army since 2002. Rest assured they keep the illiterate people away from the complicated machinery and Yes They do often get in the way.HEe has seen them get others killed. NOW - The FDNY is a job. YOu want them. FDNY has a limited number of members and like a good display of Capitalism - there is competition for the job.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

refused to continue reading your posts after you got into talking about the Miiitary and mechanics. Yes, I'm sure a man who went through automotive school can't read? Here's the difference between the Military and the Fire department. Military is volunteer. They want you! The US govt is alwyas looking for more members. BLACK, white, dumb, illiterate, handsome, ugly etc.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Alwyas excuses from the side you are arguing with. No real answers. NO FACTS!. All you guys are doing is weakening a department.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

But i guess me actually being a fireman WITH 27 years experience and earning 2 promotions means I know nothing. I'm sure lawyers, spectators, Liberals and angry Bigot organizations know everything!

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Excuse me for getting involved in a matter I know nothing of

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Do you think I was never harassed? Was i never discrimated against? Was a never called a Spic? Did I not date women who were ashamed to take me home to mee their family? Guess what I'm still alive. I still have ambition. I dont want sympathy nor charity. It's about time you guess Grew up and MAN-UP!

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

f we are not going to use a standardized 6th grade reading level comprehension exam, then what do you advise we do test? A dancing conest ? How well the applicant can sing?

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Both of my parents were born in Puerto Rico and I never once looked to use that to my advantage in any way. I took a reading, physical and psychological exam with no special help. I worked very hard and earned my badge. I am so sick of this mentality in society of which everyone is looking to get something for nothing. Everyone wants special treatment. NO one is entitled to anything. All race cards should go through the shredder.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

By the way, Who are you kidding? YOu know that it was not the Hispanics of new York that were complaining about the previous exams or recruiting of minorities. it was the blacks and ONLY the blacks. The Vulcan society is the only group looking for special treatment (and Handouts).

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

The Vulcan's wont be happy until they obtain a majrity in the FDNY and don't even have to show up to work. Due to lack of recruiting and difficult competitive exams in he past, black fireman no longer have to work to obtain a paycheck and pension. Sounds fair to me. After all, they were slaves 150 years ago

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

It's clear you dont know SHIT about fighting fires. I am a retired 27 year "Latino" Captain of a Fire Department. I also have many friends in numerous ranks working fo the FDNY. You can't be stupid and be a good fireman. You must believe that the only things firefighters do is ride around on a big red truck and then put the wet stuff on the orange stuff and break a few windows while we're at it. Firefighting is a very complex science, that requires intelligence, reading, interest, heart,

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

dedication, and practice. Every single day in the 6 month academy, the probies are required to read mutliples chapters regarding the job. They include learning and understand complex tools of the job such as the Hurst Tool. Many firefighting procedures, if performed incorrectly, can result in dying or killing several other members. If you can't comprehend basic reading passages, you don't even belong being a fire dispatcher.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

THis is LIFE AND DEATH. I have gone to too many funerals in my career and I can see the number of deaths rising as the standards are lowered

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

Fireman are a family. On the fire floor, the are a team that rely on each other. They trust each other with their lives and count on each other to perform his specific task and do it under pressure. The best fireman I know are always taking the initiative to learn more. They are the ones reading articles on fire related material. They are the ones studying the books

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

How can a fireman that got on the job by way of 1) having the test remade to be idiot proof so he could pass (Yes Ive seen copies of the new Exam - it is a JOKE Basically my 6 year old could take the exam and score a higher grade than me since there are no real right answers)

2) they were recruited by minority fireman getting paid Overtime. Clearly they did not even want the job and had no enthusiasm about fighting fires.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

3) They skipped over more qualified and more wanting white and asian firemen.

4) the standards were lowered just for them. No more college credit, no more needingto know how to read, no more hard work required.

Is that the type of career they want? How can they be proud of that? It's a disgrace

[fordman1214]

At the 4:17 mark, Mr Washington states that there is not as much danger as people think. I dont know where you get that idea from, you should go tell that to the families of all of the brothers that have been KILLED ON THIS JOB! See how they feelabout your ridiculous comment!

[11385brooklyn]

stop complaining!!!!

[raggazio12345]

THIS IS BULLSHIT this country is so stupid BLacks and Hispanics aren't passing thas there problem plain and simple

[danthemansa1]

Amen!

[jrpaulsen]

The Vulcans are obviously after the money. They are insluting the black firemen who worked hard to get on the job. We have 3 in my firehouse out of 50 guys.

Lowering the standards is not the answer. Paul Washington is going to cost the city millions of dollars be responsible for many deaths when "lower standard" applicants get on this job. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of what he is doing. Its all about GREED for him and the Vulcan Society.

[ItsMeLadyK]

Unfair hiring practices or the race card? Let's review the facts and then make intelligent comments not racially motivated ones.

[Jayxbird521]

I am a Black man a black firefighter well to be fair 1/2 black but I have seen the FDNY exam and there is no way in hell that black people shouldn't be able to take. Now I understand being in NYC your a victim of the shity public schools but if you can't pass the fucking minimum you're just not cutt out to be a firefighter period and it's not because youre black it's that your just not educated enough thats it its not because your black or because were black.

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

This is coming from a first generation Mexican-American. If my parents were able to make it here, you free-loaders should too

[ENRICODELCAMPO]

I didnt have any family on the job. I'm Spanish, but i'm not white. I had to go out of my way to send away for an application. I took the test, passed and got on the job. WHy do BLACK people wanna cry about everything. Stop being lazy wining cunts. How much do you want handed to you?? I think we should put a permanent cancelation on all RACE CARDS. You people wonder why Racism is still fueled.

[John7512]

It's an open competitive exam! The candidates with the highest scores are hired. I took the written test. A child could pass it. If I was a minority I would be offended! Mr Washington, are you implying that whites are more intelligent than blacks. I want to know where all the outraged black firemen are. Speak up! Or are you racist cowards?

P.S. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!

[ns0710]

Pay attention amigo. In the realm of employment discrimination, there's disparate impact and disparate treatment. The factors for disparate impact were met, case won.

[sanfordhousing]

Thank you Vulcans your struggle is a part of NYC rich history of social change,and a wonderful tapestry of the good hard working people fighting for justice for all its citizens I was in Vietnam in 1967,The African American Grunts would jibe the white grunts (hard ass crackers) How come we always have to sit in the back of the Huey ?Huhh ,The crackers would cringe,The humor would flow like wine, with bouquette of rich political cultura wit which was dismantling racist beliefs before my eyes

[AJames1000]

WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED IN THE SAME LIKENESS AND SPOKE TO ARAR'S WIFE DIRECTLY:

CIA /KKK TARGETING OUR PERSONS for abduction on behalf of McCain admin- youtube(dot)com/watch?v=0RezG0­KwH_I

Our message to Obama: youtube(dot)com/watch?v=_sfObg­s3GGg and

CIA EXPOSED IN TORTURE youtube(dot)com/watch?v=x02fiU­6S1-Q

Center For Constitutional Rights must respond we are waiting.

[NYsentinel]

FDNY Aux Fire Corps / Volunteer aux/Lt 16yrs

Job Candidate / 92

Vulcans Society trained us for the physicals

Always very proffessional A1A

Shout to Paul Wahington and Family

[NYsentinel]

I always remembered that when youre in zero visibility it didnt matter what race the man/woman next to you was just so long as they can pull you out of hell when the time came to get out.

Captain Paul Washington trained us that way.

Strength and Honor

[hisunand]

who works hard deserves it that's all

[DefenceSpeech]

This is ridiculous, either they know why 'minorities' score in a lower percentile than whites or they don't. To discredit a test because blacks and hispanics can't pass it as often is racist in and of itself. I thought we're all the same? That's what these multi-culturalist nutjobs preach day and night.

[thinkblu5]

the FDNY should not recruit, they should have applicants that WANT to BE FIREMEN! .. well if anything happens to these people, hopefully they dont get the 110 lb girl that cant pick up hose, and people that are hired just because of color that dont care to do the job or cant..

[thinkblu5]

These people are idiots..for a job that lives depend on, you would think they would want the person who scored the best.

[trooprkid]

"this job is learned on the job, under intense pressure"... if you can't pass a simple written test under NO pressure, why should you progress to the "intense pressure" stage? gimme a break

[danmane243]

Isn't this the same test given to the NYC Dept. Corrections which is vastly black...why isn't that considered racist to whites.

[vitalsenise]

It's a known fact that on average blacks score by 20 points lower on IQ tests then Whites and Asians. Asians scored 5 points hire then whites. Let's face it. Blacks have an attitude. Were going to have a Race war.

[gun138]

If the City of New York had a Van drive around to minority neighborhoods and give out one hundred dollar bills, The Vulcans would complain that the city should make more of an effort to bring the money to the people on the upper floors of their apartment buildings so that they don't have to go all the way down to the street to get the free $100.

[dkbugs]

Those two make me sick!!!!!!!!

[A550RGY]

This is so backwards. Because minorities do worse, there MUST be something in the test causing this? They can't give examples of discriminatory questions, but they are soooo sure something wrong is going on. Learn about cause and effect, you idiots.

Furthermore, they are the ones putting down minorities by saying they aren't very good at cognitive tests. Nice.

2:30 So then why even HAVE a written test, right? We have written tests to WEED out the ones not worth FIELD TESTING (see 8:08).

[rachiegirl1231]

How can a written test they everyone takes be racist? And why are they only talking about Blacks and Latinos...poor asians(well..maybe they pass so they couldn't be included). Next time maybe they should study harder, hire a tudor, and just because people fail usually its not the tests fault it sometimes has to do with the person taking the test.