As a social worker who has studied community organizing, the dimwitted overgeneralization contained in this statement by Mr. Kurtz are not just misleading but incendiary. Mr. Kurtz is critiqueing an organization which hold spiritual values similar to myself and indeed, as Jacobsen says, central to Christianity. "That which you do to the least of my brothers, you also do unto me. " Obama is irrelevant to this. I reserve the term evil for few things. This is one. It is vitriolic.
Collective or Individual are only two stories (of many). Hadn't heard of it before this. Thank you for making me aware of latest Beck propaganda.. Jesus taught to us love all our brothers as we love him. So, yes we are all connected through the Christ light-love. Salvation is irrelevant to this. Personal or Collective? So you say. We can stress Individualism as is the Objectivist-Republican tendency. Rand however was an atheist. "Individual existence is the 2nd premise of Satanic Wicca.
@billbrad1 "I myself believe that the duel between Christianity and atheism is the most important in the world. I further believe that the struggle between individualism and collectivism is the same struggle reproduced on another level." God and Man at Yale 1951 william f buckley/
I'm attacking the mis-characterization of community organization as negative in any way. I'm particularly attacking the idea that ACORN in any way caused the banking crisis. and a man who has no understanding for what is good and positive for the development of urban street communities. Anger of the black community is a a fact which as MLK said is a necessary transient phase to be used for development. Why is there such a vitriolic attack on Obama by Kurtz or Beck, GOP if not for racism.
Backbencher- one last thing If you are a Christian, stop listening to Glenn Beck and go read the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is very clear about serving the poor, giving to your brother. We are one. This "Marxist" nonsense is in your mind only. Liberation theology is something else. Obama's just saying get out there and help!
Voluntarily serving the poor and giving to your brother is a good thing. However, letting the government take your money and give it to others domestically and overseas (with the government taking their cut, of course) because it is somehow unfair that you have more money than they do is not a good thing. Jesus never said that everybody's houses should be the same as Al Sharpton said, and that is what this redistribution of wealth is all about.
This is another issue but...."equal in everybody's house" is what he said, meaning equal rights not we all have the same. Since 1980 (Reagan) the top 1% has gone from owning 9% of wealth to 23.5%. Middle class wages have fallen while top 2%has gone up 29%. Middle class works harder, longer to make the same. These are the results of supply side economics in last 30 yrs.
Fact. Progressives want a return to America of the 60's, not Marxism. Read Robert Reich, "Aftershock", then discuss.
@billbrad1 thats absolute garbage.the reason is because the middle class moved in to a higher tax bracket.you still have yet to address the issue of forced redistribution vs charity.could you make arguments without using classwarfare please? i find it just as distasteful as race based arguments.keep it clean. thank you.
@billbrad1 im sure you have heard the Leftist mantra before: “The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer.” In fact, Robert Reich’s newest book rehashes Marx’s Theory of Capital Accumulation, which argues that too much capital is accumulated at “the top” and eventually the bottom doesn’t have enough income to purchase what the top sells. (Of course this is a simplified summary of Marx’s Theory, but that is the general idea). Some have even argued that this caused the
@thebackbencher666 recent recession.Those who are familiar with Thomas Sowell know that he easily debunked this nonsense by explaining that nobody “distributes wealth” to the top income brackets. In fact, people are constantly moving up and down the statistical brackets, often with age. ( For example, young people tend to be poorer than they are when they get older and develop more skills and earn more in income. )However, another new development may destroy Reich’s
@thebackbencher666 argument without even needing to address what Sowell has discussed. It turns out that:
Two people were found to have filed multiple W-2 forms that made them into multibillionaires, an agency official said yesterday. Those reports threw statistical wage tables out of whack and, in figures released Oct. 15, made it appear that top U.S. earners had seen their pay quintuple in 2009 to an average of $519 million.The agency yesterday released corrected tables that
@thebackbencher666 showed the average incomes of the top earners, in fact, declined 7.7 percent to $84 million each.This would mean that all the claims that the top X % earned “obscene” incomes while the rest of the Country did poorly, isn’t true. Incomes in fact declined for almost everyone during this recession.This isn’t something to be happy about. But, it demonstrates that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Short answer here backbencher. I appreciate your thotful response. I rather see this as a dialogue between liberal and conservative economists. To use Marxism as a counter-point is only an emotional argument which clouds the issue. You apparently know more about Marxism than I, so I guess if I am one, I should read up. However, if Marx said concentrated income at the top hurts the economy
I would agree, that's what Reich is saying. I think he's right. The real engine of the economy is the middle class. Especially these days, the rich will invest 75% of their income, perhaps in credit default swaps, or investments in Brazil. Whereas 95% of the middle class income is spent on widgets which give others jobs here. Questions..What does it mean that the middle class moved to a higher tax bracket? Please explain, and can you document that? I don't see this as class warfare.
That was our friend and the Sharpton remark. I would hope we could avert class warfare, that is one great reason for not getting so unbalanced. All due respect to Thomas Sowell, but he hasn't debunked anything. The data (which I can document if you like) is clear that greater & greather % of the wealth is being concentrated there. W-2 debacle doesn't affect Reich's stats since Bureaus of Labor stats last done in 2007. Also the lower wages of middle class starting in 1980. Can you challenge
Progressives also want to regulate everything in our lives, from the banning of Happy Meals to putting extra taxes on sugary soft drinks to banning the incandescent light bulb in favor of a compact fluorescent light bulb with 4mg of mercury in it that is very dangerous should you break the bulb. If people want to eat fast food every day and they get fat and have a heart attack because their arteries are clogged, it's their problem, not mine. Progressivism removes all personal responsibility.
As a social worker who has studied community organizing, the dimwitted overgeneralization contained in this statement by Mr. Kurtz are not just misleading but incendiary. Mr. Kurtz is critiqueing an organization which hold spiritual values similar to myself and indeed, as Jacobsen says, central to Christianity. "That which you do to the least of my brothers, you also do unto me. " Obama is irrelevant to this. I reserve the term evil for few things. This is one. It is vitriolic.
billbrad1 1 year ago
@billbrad1 is it? do you deny any of his statements as facts or are you just going to attack his tone.
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
@thebackbencher666 do you believe in collective salvation?
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
Collective or Individual are only two stories (of many). Hadn't heard of it before this. Thank you for making me aware of latest Beck propaganda.. Jesus taught to us love all our brothers as we love him. So, yes we are all connected through the Christ light-love. Salvation is irrelevant to this. Personal or Collective? So you say. We can stress Individualism as is the Objectivist-Republican tendency. Rand however was an atheist. "Individual existence is the 2nd premise of Satanic Wicca.
billbrad1 1 year ago
@billbrad1 "I myself believe that the duel between Christianity and atheism is the most important in the world. I further believe that the struggle between individualism and collectivism is the same struggle reproduced on another level." God and Man at Yale 1951 william f buckley/
youngmarklevin 1 year ago
I'm attacking the mis-characterization of community organization as negative in any way. I'm particularly attacking the idea that ACORN in any way caused the banking crisis. and a man who has no understanding for what is good and positive for the development of urban street communities. Anger of the black community is a a fact which as MLK said is a necessary transient phase to be used for development. Why is there such a vitriolic attack on Obama by Kurtz or Beck, GOP if not for racism.
billbrad1 1 year ago
Backbencher- one last thing If you are a Christian, stop listening to Glenn Beck and go read the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is very clear about serving the poor, giving to your brother. We are one. This "Marxist" nonsense is in your mind only. Liberation theology is something else. Obama's just saying get out there and help!
That's exactly what Jesus said.
billbrad1 1 year ago
Voluntarily serving the poor and giving to your brother is a good thing. However, letting the government take your money and give it to others domestically and overseas (with the government taking their cut, of course) because it is somehow unfair that you have more money than they do is not a good thing. Jesus never said that everybody's houses should be the same as Al Sharpton said, and that is what this redistribution of wealth is all about.
Mpoconnor7 1 year ago
This is another issue but...."equal in everybody's house" is what he said, meaning equal rights not we all have the same. Since 1980 (Reagan) the top 1% has gone from owning 9% of wealth to 23.5%. Middle class wages have fallen while top 2%has gone up 29%. Middle class works harder, longer to make the same. These are the results of supply side economics in last 30 yrs.
Fact. Progressives want a return to America of the 60's, not Marxism. Read Robert Reich, "Aftershock", then discuss.
billbrad1 1 year ago
@billbrad1 thats absolute garbage.the reason is because the middle class moved in to a higher tax bracket.you still have yet to address the issue of forced redistribution vs charity.could you make arguments without using classwarfare please? i find it just as distasteful as race based arguments.keep it clean. thank you.
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
@billbrad1 im sure you have heard the Leftist mantra before: “The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer.” In fact, Robert Reich’s newest book rehashes Marx’s Theory of Capital Accumulation, which argues that too much capital is accumulated at “the top” and eventually the bottom doesn’t have enough income to purchase what the top sells. (Of course this is a simplified summary of Marx’s Theory, but that is the general idea). Some have even argued that this caused the
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
@thebackbencher666 recent recession.Those who are familiar with Thomas Sowell know that he easily debunked this nonsense by explaining that nobody “distributes wealth” to the top income brackets. In fact, people are constantly moving up and down the statistical brackets, often with age. ( For example, young people tend to be poorer than they are when they get older and develop more skills and earn more in income. )However, another new development may destroy Reich’s
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
@thebackbencher666 argument without even needing to address what Sowell has discussed. It turns out that:
Two people were found to have filed multiple W-2 forms that made them into multibillionaires, an agency official said yesterday. Those reports threw statistical wage tables out of whack and, in figures released Oct. 15, made it appear that top U.S. earners had seen their pay quintuple in 2009 to an average of $519 million.The agency yesterday released corrected tables that
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
@thebackbencher666 showed the average incomes of the top earners, in fact, declined 7.7 percent to $84 million each.This would mean that all the claims that the top X % earned “obscene” incomes while the rest of the Country did poorly, isn’t true. Incomes in fact declined for almost everyone during this recession.This isn’t something to be happy about. But, it demonstrates that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
Short answer here backbencher. I appreciate your thotful response. I rather see this as a dialogue between liberal and conservative economists. To use Marxism as a counter-point is only an emotional argument which clouds the issue. You apparently know more about Marxism than I, so I guess if I am one, I should read up. However, if Marx said concentrated income at the top hurts the economy
billbrad1 1 year ago
I would agree, that's what Reich is saying. I think he's right. The real engine of the economy is the middle class. Especially these days, the rich will invest 75% of their income, perhaps in credit default swaps, or investments in Brazil. Whereas 95% of the middle class income is spent on widgets which give others jobs here. Questions..What does it mean that the middle class moved to a higher tax bracket? Please explain, and can you document that? I don't see this as class warfare.
billbrad1 1 year ago
That was our friend and the Sharpton remark. I would hope we could avert class warfare, that is one great reason for not getting so unbalanced. All due respect to Thomas Sowell, but he hasn't debunked anything. The data (which I can document if you like) is clear that greater & greather % of the wealth is being concentrated there. W-2 debacle doesn't affect Reich's stats since Bureaus of Labor stats last done in 2007. Also the lower wages of middle class starting in 1980. Can you challenge
billbrad1 1 year ago
Progressives also want to regulate everything in our lives, from the banning of Happy Meals to putting extra taxes on sugary soft drinks to banning the incandescent light bulb in favor of a compact fluorescent light bulb with 4mg of mercury in it that is very dangerous should you break the bulb. If people want to eat fast food every day and they get fat and have a heart attack because their arteries are clogged, it's their problem, not mine. Progressivism removes all personal responsibility.
Mpoconnor7 1 year ago