Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. 'The' Way, not 'a' way. Fear of God is a good thing, as those who have it will think twice about sinning instead of rushing headlong in. Read John 14:6
JESUS CHRIST, HIS CATHOLIC-UNIVERSAL-APOSTOLIC CHURCH, SACRAMENTS, THE BIBLE, MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ST. MARY APPARITIONS, MESSAGES FROM HEAVEN, SIGNS IN 2011 ARE NOT A MYTHOLOGY BUT THE REALITY !!!
@MojaveViper29 "Atheism is the denial of god or gods; it can not said to be "morally superior.""
I agree that lack of belief doesn't define the individual. But let's suppose your god has a history of genocide, murder, revenge, and that they endorse slavery. Just because you might not agree with your god, and seek to somehow justify the scripture, you still worship he-who-has-ideals-that-are-immoral. Clearly, the modern human mind has evolved beyond genocide, murder, revenge, and slavery.
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Atheism has nothing to do with morals; it is simply the denial of our God. And if you say that atheism has superior morals, what source can you give me so I can read up on it?
@WayOfTheMaster454 Atheism is the lack of belief in ANY gods due to lack of evidence to support the existence of gods. Atheism itself is a product of rational thinking and rational thinking is the very source of our social morality. In fact the reason why we do not hang gay people, cut off hands of thieves, stone adulterers to death or burn people alive is because of secular morals being reasoned in stark contrast to the religious moral punishments already listed. Yes secular are superior.
@tsunami770 I couldn't agree with you more. I am a strong advocate of rational thinking and morality for the good of humanity. Religion has caused a lot of misery through out history, it is destructive and divisive. Most people could agree on morals, but you will never get a cross section of people to agree on religion.
@WayOfTheMaster454 There is a group of people who insist on forcing their religion based beliefs on the sovereingty of women's bodies and their right to choose motherhood while poor children die of hunger elsewhere. That is not morality, that is a dictatorship. That education/prevention are the best tools to deal with potential unexpected pregnacies and that a safe abortion is better than a "back alley" abortion. Women don't take it lightly but it is their decision, not someone else's to make.
@WayOfTheMaster454 Limited understaning? You are making some biased assumptions there (terminating a growth of cells who cannot live independently is a kill?) so please stop falselighting. Society does not tolerate murder of children as it is and if you now include cells on that, imagine how many are "killed" for the sake of 1 birth. Your morality disguises the truth that it is really targeted control and empoverishment for women. You are free to choose not to abort and help kids dying of hunger
I need to commit this speech to memory so I'll never have to be patronised by a faith head again when they tell me that we get our morals from Christianity, or any Abrahamic religion for that matter.
There's more to morals than religious beliefs or lack thereof.... and atheism is a lack there of...you can't attach morals to atheism as if it were some sort of religion...there's nothing to attach it to in the first place. I'm an atheist, and I'm telling you here that the only thing keeping me from being immoral is the sovereign above my head and fear of death/imprisonment. That's the factual reality...anything else is just emotional or utilitarian.
The WHOLE western world is obsessed with "MORAL SUPERIORITY". THEISTIC AND ATHEISTIC they don't care as long as their superiority is insured. their thoughts are obsessed with domineering. they can't take what they believe in and roll with it. they have to have 12 volumes worth of arguments on how and/or why the "other guy" sucks. I'm a christian but my focus isn't on the supernatural or the afterlife nor do I fall for the humanistic utopian vison of some athiest. both are illogical.
I am an Atheist, and every time I walk on the sidewalk, and always look down. I do this inconvenient thing to make sure that I don't step on any insects. Name me one other person who does that.
@shinokiba No one, just you....so how is your atheism relevant to that? I've met religious people who are crazy about animal rights... to me it's mostly overrated bullshit...but hey whatever floats your boat....and yes I'm an atheist.
THE HIGH PRIESTS of Atheism, including Vanity Fair's starchild Christopher Hitchens, can never duplicate or demonstrate ONENESS. If U read their literature -take the brilliant Bristish scientist Stephen Hawking's black-hole manifesto THE GRAND DESIGN (presumably HIS!) U will eventually stumble upon their simplistic equation, namely, that: "NOTHING = NOTHING", DUH?
It would be difficult to find a more intelligent response to religion (and life in general) than what Christopher Hitchens has to offer....He is one of my favorite people in the world.
Closed minds gather in the same closet and speak about how beautiful the walls are, then turn & spew venomous hate, on all who dare to suggest, that a beautiful world truly exist outside of those precious 4 walls. The sad part is, no one wants to risk their closet clout, so no one dares to rise and open the door. Lol WAKE-UP non-believers! Bless The Lord Jesus!
This was the first time I heard Christopher Hitchens....that was like a year ago. Now I utterly adore and respect this man. I hope he pulls through in the next few months. The world would suffer to lose him too soon...
Morality is subjective. An athiest position can more readily change ideas or beliefs found immoral where as a more theist position usually has to be forced to over a long period of time where they can no longer argue their point. Slavery = bad. Beating your wife = bad. Pedofilia = Still no position apparently. They'll have to change the bible AGAIN eventually. You know, the infalliable word of god....Objective morality, don't be stupid.
@PixelPariah Certainly they've made inroads with making laws that are religionbased, and see? Our country is heading in the wrong direction. With prohibition (of both marijuana and alcohol) we have gang violence. We did cut out prohibition on alcohol but its not gone all the way. Meanwhile, we've got a HUGE gang problem.
I agree, but those vice laws make our world worse. Technically, the vice laws are illegal, they're a way the law contradicts itself. You are right though.
@spartacandream Then you need to take a second look at ordinances, zoning regulations and laws, thousands of which, are made sick by the iron fist of theocracy in America. We certainly toil under the cult de jour, and it must be fought at every turn.
Faith in country/leaders/philosophy led to the holocaust & the twisting of communism into something evil but i think faith in god leads to even more death. moses, mohammad, jesus(if he was real) r responsible for more death and suffering than any1.
@jake7864 how are they responsible for the deaths? They never said make a religion of their name...and if it weren't for them then we'd still have paganism doing the same thing... Also WW2 killed over 40-50 million people and communist socialism has killed around a quarter to half a billion people...is that seriously how much religion killed when in medieval times the world population was barely 3 quarters of a billion? Mind your history...I'm an agnostic but don't spew bullshit.
@SirGeorge8600 I didn't put that much thought into that comment & I'm not that proud of it. I don't know why I wrote that drivel I was either drunk, tired or something else. I usually try not to spew that type of bullshit. sorry dude.
@joe018687645 -Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is a system of conduct and ethics that is virtuous. It can also be used in regard to sexual matters and chastity.
-Rape and murder cause suffering, so they are wrong. In case of rape I think it cant be subjective, I cant think of a situation where raping would be right. But for example to kill a person who is killing your innocent mother would be right action to take.
@bary1234 Ok I was actually loking for a self defined answer, but ok. Rape causes suffering so that is wrong, but why? I mean im not splitting hairs I like this debate. What Im asking you is what objective value do you hold that says its wrong?(TO BE CONT)
It must be objective because morality in itself has no common bond subjectesism. Meaning, Hitler sincerely believed in Aryan suprmacy, so he had an objective reason for calling my idea of evil good. I just think everyone needs an objective view of morality because it is an intangible idea. IMHO
@joe018687645:There is no absolute morality.Morality is made up by humans, and we define it. So these would just be my definitions, based on definitions from society and people around me.
This is just going to be splitting hairs, I dont have any more profound explanation than wrong is wrong because I feel like it. Suffering is something every living creature tries to avoid.I dont want to suffer myself and I dont want to cause suffering. And I dont want anybody else to cause suffering either.
@joe018687645 I'd like to try to give a shot at this question...if you don't mind. I think your arguement about Hitler actually proves the opposite to be true....that an objective veiw of morality is the wrong way to think about it. Yes (it can be argued) that Hitler Honestly believed that what he was doing was right. So was he acting morally? Well if we are to say no, then we must define why. IF he was right about the Jews then he would be right, and everyone would agree. But [continued]
@joe018687645 [continuation] ....and everyone would agree. But he wasn't right (at least most of us including me believe he wasn't)....So if you are saying that his imorality is based on being WRONG, then you walk a thin line. Are the retarded immoral? They are wrong quite a bit. See where that leads? Now I would suggest that Hitler was not wrong, or stupid...but rather that he intentionally ignored facts to the contrary of his belief. He had blind faith. This is in [CONTINUED AGAIN]
@joe018687645 [SECOND CONTINUATION] ....He had blind faith. This is IMHO the root of most evil. The ignorance of truth...or if you will, ignorance. Combined with this should be the simple Idea that you should not unjustly inflict harm. How do I define that? Well to punch a man @ random in the street is unjustly harming him. Punching him in a boxing ring is justified because it is an agreed upon sport between the two. So to refine 10 commandments to 2. Dont be ignorant. Dont inflict unjust harm.
@joe018687645 Well, morality stems from the instinct to survive. Humans as a species, are more productive when they co-operate. Raping someone is not co-operation, therefore it is wrong and detrimental to our success.
@kaxitaksi "Morality is doing what is right regardless what you are told, religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right".
Quotation marks and all. Nice sound bite. Just one question. Who determines who is right? You, me, Stalin, Hitler or MotherTeresa? Who is the judge? Is it the official left or right winged Judge who works for you, me, Stalin, Hitler or Mother Teresa?
@benthemiester "Who is the judge?" Society and humanity. The people. The collective. Not one person. And certainly not a god who thinks killing newborns, genocide, slavery, public executions etc are a good idea.
@DarwinAwardsInc "Who is the judge?" Society and humanity. The people. The collective"
Which society? Nazi Germany society? The Agrarian society of Albania 1945? The head hunter society of jungles of Borneo? The Aztecs? The Taliban and Sharia Law societies, or do only the society you choose count? And who judges this method.....society?.... Classic tautology. Didn't Napoleon have something there when he said "Morality lies on the side of the biggest gun?" Isn't this more accurate?
@benthemiester Society being the PEOPLE, not their rulers. Society as a whole has come to the conclusion that certain things are wrong, there are areas of grey but other than that we keep fairly consitent, it's mostly the religious nutbags that still cling to bronze age doctrine that condones every atrocity known to man.
@MetalCatharsis I know you said "or at least theist" but you said you never said he was a Christian, thats why I provided you saying it in your own words.
I have had a lot of patience with your childish behavior and language but enough is enough. Take care and good luck.
@benthemiester Yeah the whole superior attitude doesn'tmake you any less wrong in pretty much every view you've expressed, also you continued your shit even after Iseveral times said Iwas done so don't pretend that I'm the one who dragged it on. Calling someone out on being a moron is not childish, expressing your opinions and feelings is not childish, calling other people childish at any opportunity, Is in itself, childish. Goodbye.
So if I were a muslim and believed in stoning people or if I was born in Stalin Russia and believed it was OK to kill 20 million people then thats the morality compass I should follow. OK sure no problem. Makes great sense.
@benthemiester You make the mistake of look at other societies through the morality goggles of your own.
Taliban muslims DO think that stoning those people IS their moral obligation. And they feel that WE are immoral because we eat pork. WE, disagree with them, based on OUR morals. And I'm willing to bet that 100 years from now, our grand-grandchildren will consider things immoral that WE consider moral today.
@benthemiester In short: morals evolve and are subjective. They find their origins in culture, society, traditions, background, education, upbringing...
@benthemiester : Are you going to try to justify your belief in imaginary god by this argument? Just remember, there never was any evidence for gods, there is no reason to believe in gods. Morality comes from people, we are the ones making it up as we go along.
So the answer is you, me, hitler, stalin, mother Teresa. Society is the judge, and every individual is the judge.
Most atheist will say that Christians are the scourge of mankind, but few act on their dogma. Hitchens chose to live in the US which is a country with a Christian majority who embraced & ratified a secular constitution that allows freedom of thought, speech & expression.
I challenge any atheist who shares Hitchens view to go and visit an atheist state & see how much freedom u have there. I don't see atheist flocking to these countries where people can be jailed for dissent and speaking freely.
@benthemiester One: there is not 'Atheist state.' If you mean a country in which government and religion ar eseperate, America IS such a nation. Two: 'countries where people can be jailed for dissent and speaking freely.' You mean like the middle east? Places that force all citizens to convert to islam and where women get their heads chopped off for driving cars? those types of nations?
@MetalCatharsis A secular state does not mean an atheist state. If you want to research it further key in words "state atheism". Yes there are some Muslim countries that are also very repressive. I am not a Muslim but I do know many Muslims who don't believe in Sharia law and are pretty nice people. The US which has a Christian majority is far from being perfect, but it is a free country and hundreds of thousands come here to live every year, including atheist.
@benthemiester The U.S has a christian majority, but it's laws have nothing to do with christianity and everyone has freedom of religion, what the majority is is irrelevant. There is as far as I know not one country where atheism is enforced by law. America being a free country ahs nothing to do with it's people being christian, at all.
@MetalCatharsis "The U.S has a christian majority, but it's laws have nothing to do with christianity and everyone has freedom of religion,
U don't get it, we ratified these freedoms.
If a nation made up of a Christian majority is willing to, ratify & in many cases give their lives in defending a secular constitution, then I think this makes my point. If you believe a majority is irrelevant in a Democratically based Republic like the US, then I would encourage u to go back to school.
@benthemiester One: it was Christians who brought over black slaves and used the bible to justify it. Two: Christians are generally intolerant to homosexuality and other religions. The United States being free is despite it's Christian population, not because of it. Were it up to U.S christians, many freedoms would be denied, and are being denied in the case of gay marriage. And Nazi germany was a deeply religious nation having ties to the vatican.
@MetalCatharsis cont.... Vietnam allows religion approved by the state but also has government restrictions on religion and has a poor human rights record. Its up to you to research. I cant hold your hand.
How could you know? You haven't been around long enough. As for democracy, again I strongly urge you to research it a little better. You barely learned today that atheist states exist. My thread was in response to someone who blamed Christians for repression, yet even you admit that the US is a free country in spite of a Christian majority. I would also encourage you to research Judeo Christian law and its relevance to our non statutory laws.
@benthemiester What atheist state where. name one country where by law religion is not allowed.
Yes, in SPITE of, meaning if the christians had their way we'd still have black slaves andgays would be thrown in jailor worse. A representative democracy is irrelevant to an actual democracy. Also, clearly YOU haven't researched history enough, look up the Inquisition, Christians are the most repressive group of all besides muslims, hostory has shown that.
@MetalCatharsis In China religion is controlled and monitored by the government and dissenter have been put in prison, and freedom of speech and dissent is not a right. The same can be said of N Korea where the government tells the outside world that there is freedom of religion but it is controlled by the government. Laos and Albania have very poor records on human rights and personal freedoms especially dissent of government policies.
@MetalCatharsis cont... Gays do very well in this country some of the wealthiest people in the US are gay as well as many celebrities. On the average they do very well.
as do atheist.
It seems you have now changed the rhetoric. Just a minute ago you said all were free and a Christian majority had nothing to do with it. Well then apply those same principles to gays and slavery. Didn't you say a Christian majority was irrelevant?
@benthemiester Seriously, you want to make the argument that the U.S is somehow free because of it's Christian population and just wanna gloss over the enslavement of blacks and repression of gays and likly a host of other things done by american christians and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?
@MetalCatharsis 'Seriously, you want to make the argument that the U.S is somehow free because of it's Christian population and just wanna gloss over the enslavement of blacks and repression of gays and likly a host of other things done by american christians and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?"
Its interesting that a minute ago you said "everyone is free" but it had nothing to do with a Christian majority but when it comes to slavery you have changed your tune.
@MetalCatharsis Again I cant emphasize enough how important research is and in this case, on Christian abolitionist that helped shape the way the country dealt with this issue. Hundreds of thousands of people gave their lives in the civil war to right injustices. The video is entitled moral superiority of atheism and its this that I contend.
We all have blemishes and no one is more superior to anyone else.
@benthemiester You've just mentioned two nations who enforce and control what religion people can have, that is not atheism in any sense. Vietnam and chine aren't without religion, they don't prevent people from worshiping they just tell them what they can worship. So again, what states enforce the non-belief in god? None.
@MetalCathar"However those who are against those freedoms are mainly Christians"
This is just false. From the war of Independence,1812, Spanish American, WW1 & WW2 when we threatened by a madman in Europe who was slaughtering millions it was Christians, Jews and people of all faiths that stood up and gave their lives for the freedoms we have. I would love to say that at least a small amount of atheist helped out, but according to most atheist, they don't fight in wars only religious people do.
@benthemiester No, it may not be absolutely true for all, but it is true that the majority of people who are against things like homosexuality and abortion are Christian, I'm sorry you don't know this you have obviously not observed the world around you. Also, you bring up world war 2, well Hitlers belief in god and his use of theism during his genocide is well documented fact, the fact that believers fought him doesn't make for morality by religion...
@benthemiester ....or change the fact that the worst acts ever done by humanity were done by Theists, Christians especially. Again, look up the inquisition.
@MetalCatharsis "they don't prevent people from worshiping they just tell them what they can worship"
If u read my original thread it was about restriction of personal freedoms. If u think having the government tell u what you can and cant believe in is sufficient freedom, then you & I have a different definition of the word freedom. Its like saying I only beat my wife sometimes. China, N Korea, Vietnam, Albania, Laos, all rank low on human rights & personal freedom some worst than others.
@benthemiester Yes, they have restriction of personal freedom, and I've just pointed out that has nothing to do with atheism and these states are not atheist. And your response is an irrelevant accusation that I somehow support state control. You have still not named an atheist state.
@benthemiester 1: most of those are out of date, name a current one. 2: imposing state sanctioned churches is not the same as being atheist, neither is persecuting religions unless the reason for persecution is in itself that the religions believe in a god.
@MetalCatharsis I didn't accuse you of ignorance until you tried to make claims that showed a willful ignorance. Your to young for me to expect you to know things that take years of research to understand. I am not clamming to know it all and will continue to learn until I die. I am just saying based on your answers you haven't done much research.
@benthemiester 3: even were these states imposed atheism, atheism has that one factor that you miss, it's not a dogma and it doesn't tell people how to live their lives, therefor just because some atheists oppress people says nothing about atheism in itself, unlike Christianity where intolerance violence and oppression are explicitly condoned several time sin the book that Christians follow.
@MetalCatharsis Hitler despised Christianity and we have the documents in his own words to prove it. Hitler never tried to convert Jews in to Christianity like the inquisition tried to do. He gassed them. He was a firm believer in Darwinism, eugenics, race purification and survival of the fittest. Slaughtering Jews was as natural to him as natural selection.
@benthemiester Lol, Hitler was completely Christian, or at leats theist, we have well documented accounts of that in mein kamfe for one. Hitler was not by any means atheist.
@MetalCatharsis There will always be people who use religion for their own gain. Jesus himself said that there would be wolves in sheep clothing and would someday even infiltrate the church. He prophesied this 2000 years ago. He never said follow me and everything will be fine and dandy. If you don't know this, then you have never studied the scripture you profess to know so much about. We all have the potential to do bad things. It is redemption that is the true message and yes pleasing God.
@benthemiester 'Pleasing God who says to love your enemy and judge not lest ye be Judged or pleasing yourself. Which one is the more selfish?'
The one that doesn't necessitate condoning the ownership of another human being the mawling of children by bears or forcing a raped woman to marry her rapist. Christianity is inheriently without any moral compass teaching only obediance to authority.
@DarwinAwardsInc I know people like Nick Matzke have made similar claims but offers no proof, but maybe you know something he doesn't. Please give citation.
If you cant, then I have to believe you may be a very gullible person who believes everything you read without researching it first, and also one who uses childish language.
@benthemiester 'you may be a very gullible person who believes everything you read without researching it first, and also one who uses childish language.'
You may have some credibility as soon as you cite anything other than wikipedia, until then shut the fuck up. Oooh sorry, too childish for you?
@benthemiester I've read this once and don't remember where. I also don't feel a need to look it up. Because it's unimportant anyway. No matter wich way, regardless of Hitler's motivations... it doesn't change anything to evolution theory. Common ancestory will not dissappear because some facist killed a bunch of people he deemed genetically inferior.
@benthemiester And 4: Again, Inquisition and holocaust, ignoring several other acts, those 2 alone constitute more horrors than anything known to have been motivated by non belief. Christians are immoral, they not only do more immoral things throughout history, whatever good things they do are selfish acts unless done in direct conflict with their bible.
@MetalCatharsis People like Martin Luther and other less known Christians fought against the medieval church that tried to deny the people the Bible. These men were not men of God and they did not follow teachings of Christ nor did they spread the Bible, but tried to interpret it for their own gain. Even so,2000 people were executed during the Spanish inquisition. 90 million died in wars fought because of Fascism,Communism,Imperialism these world wars were not controlled by the church.
@benthemiester Everyone tries to interperet the bible because it is self contraditory and you can get it to say just about anything. just because Christians perform actions you don't view as good doesn't mean they aren't believers. The church has controlled and ordered violence, and the vatican made deals with hitler.
@MetalCatharsis Millions of Christians were thrown to the lions & millions more were persecuted by Stalin Mao & other tyrants. If its not your thing then its not your thing but don't become self-righteous & judge a whole group based on the actions of a few. Most Christians did not own slaves. This was something that came with wealth and entitlement and there were Christian abolitionist. Slaves in biblical times lived better than most of the population & many sold themselves into slavery.
@MetalCatharsis Its unfortunate that even today a person like yourself can be taken in by 1930"s Nazi Propaganda. I referenced his private letters. If you had taken the time to study subject you would find that most historians regard his public statements as Nazi Propaganda. I find this not only unfortunate but vey sad.
@MetalCatharsis"Christian doesn't change the fact that majority of the Right wingers intolerantly trying to restrict freedoms are Christian"
Please tell me how your freedoms are being restricted?
Wasn't it he atheist who tried to sue school districts because they didn't want to allow people to say the word under God in the classroom? How many Christians have sued atheist for wanting to opt out of saying the word under God? Atheist have sued schools for even critiquing Darwinism.
@benthemiester Schools have been sued for showing favoritism to a religion and making every student listen to it, students can pray all they want, they can take a bible to class, they can get on their hands and knees and say 50 hail mary's.
@MetalCatharsis "By the way, wikepedia doesn't constitute proper research, if that's your source for everything then you're really pathetic"
This is coming from someone who has cited nothing and doesn't believe state atheism exist, even when sourced. I cited Wikipedia because Richard Dawkins is a fan of Wikipedia and most atheist love and trust Richard Dawkins. If you have a problem with articles cited then provided verifiable source and have it changed. Let me know how it turns out.
@benthemiester I've seen you mention communist states. An "atheist" state is not existant. It can't exist even. You seem to forget what atheism is. It's only the rejection of theist claims. It only tells you what people are NOT: theist.
It doesn't tell you what they ARE. No dogma's, doctrines or whatever are associated with atheism. Atheism is a pretty void word wich only exists so that cdesign proponentists such as yourself could label those that don't believe the same shit as you do.
@DarwinAwardsInc Secondly you better get yourself a lawyer because not only has Einstein been critiqued many times in many schools and publications, but he himself was his own worst critic. He called the cosmological constant argument one of his worst blunders. He was also wrong about the speed of light never being able to go faster than 299 792 458 m / s. He never found a unified theory. Hawkingism as you call it is not even a theory, and again even he has criticized himself. Your a fool.
@benthemiester You are a fucking morron dude. yes, now I am getting rude. The reason is your idiocy. "hawkingism" is not even a theory... but "Einsteinism" is? LOL fucking idiot, get a fucking clue.
When I talked about Einstein I was OBVIOUSLY talking about his theories and equations for wich there is scientific consensus: fabric of space-time, relativity, E=mc², prediction of black holes etc...
@DarwinAwardsInc "hawkingism" is not even a theory... but "Einsteinism is"
Just one question, can you please tell me where you mean by the theory of Einsteinism? The theory of Einsteinism isn't a defined term, though some refer to it as his political or religious beliefs or an Urban Joke. Are you saying his political or religious beliefs or an urban joke are a scientific theory? Maybe you means General relativity but are ignorant on the terminology.
@benthemiester Obviously I was being sarcastic by showing that refering to evolution theory as "darwinism" with as purpose to try and trick the uneducated into thinking that evolution theory is not science but some kind of religion, is a stupid thing to do.
I did that by speaking about "einsteinism" and "hawkingism". If you want I can add "mendeljevism", "hubbleism", "bellism", "newtonism",...
The fact that you didn't get this shows that you have no clue what is actually going on.
@DarwinAwardsInc "An "atheist" state is not existent It can't exist "
State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
State atheism has been defined as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice. ...
@benthemiester 'State atheism has been defined as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice.'
That is irrelevant to atheism with the exception of the use of the same word. Athesm is simply a lack of belief, it cannot be enforced it has no dogma, the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever, wiki fails on this one, sorry.
@MetalCatharsis "the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
And even in that situation, this state would be defined by the totalitarianism it adheres to (like communism), not atheism itself.
Wich is what would be required for an "atheist state"... that it is defined by atheism. But since atheism has no doctrine, no dogma and doesn't define ANYTHING, the term "atheist state" is pretty much nonsensical. :-)
@benthemiester You are referring to an act by a state. Not to the essense of a state. An "atheist state" is not the same thing as "state atheism" or "state sponsored atheism".
Atheism doesn't define these nations. Other things do. An "atheist nation" would be defined BY atheism. But since atheism is the rejection of a claim and doesn't define ANYTHING, an "atheist state" is a logical impossibility.
@DarwinAwardsInc "You are referring to an act by a state" I told you to look up state atheism and you told me it cannot exist. Yes state atheism or an atheist state as opposed to organic atheism. You don't seem to understand the subject very well and are using a semantic argument.
@benthemiester No, you told me to look up "atheist state", not "state atheism".
The first is when a nation is defined by atheism (wich is impossible, atheism has no dogma's or doctrines, hence it can't define anything). The second is when a state (ANY state) forces atheism upon its people (wich I guess would mean forcing them to disbelief - wich tbh, is also kind of strange to say the least...)
@benthemiester "You don't seem to understand the subject very well and are using a semantic argument."
Nope. You don't seem to understand what atheism is. You seem to think there's like a whole rulebook for being an atheist and a whole bunch of claims and doctrines associated with it. You are wrong.
A-theist = not theist. No more, no less. Regardless of what religious folks claim.
@DarwinAwardsInc You use a word like Einsteinism and Hawkinism whether sarcastically or because you didn't understand terms, or both, and because you didn't understand that Darwinism is a defined term. You also said state atheism was impossible, but it is a documented verifiable historical fact, and your calling me ignorant.
@DarwinAwardsInc "the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
I think when you slaughter & persecute religious people as Stalin, China, Khmer Rouge or Albania did, then thats a good way to force people to believe in no religion at all. Call me crazy or any other foul word you choose.
@benthemiester Sure. But if you look into it, you'll see that their motivation was not atheism. It rather was their own thrist for power, their communism, etc.
It's completely ridiculous to associate such things with atheism. Since atheism is essentially a void term. It tells you what something is NOT: a theist.
You can have a religious state: a nation defined by the religion it is ruled by. But you can't have an atheist state, since atheism doesn't define anything.
Merriam-Webster - 1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness 2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
The proper term is Mendelian or Newtonian. Darwinism is a defined term and is not a pejorative. It is most popular in England. Dawkins considers himself to be a Darwinist.
Darwinism- is a set of movements and concepts related to ideas of transmutation of species or evolution, etc
@benthemiester I don't give a shit what dawkins calls himself. I know darwinism is a proper term when used correctly, wich is NOT in scientific context. The problem is that you people use it as a synonym for evolution theory in a pathetic way to discredit it as solid science.
Fact of the matter is that in the actual scientific literature, you will NEVER see evolution theory refered to as "darwinism".
@DarwinAwardsInc Darwinism........."I know darwinism is a proper term when used correctly, wich is NOT in scientific context"
Are you saying that the Modern/Darwinian evolutionary synthesis is not scientific? The term Darwinist, Darwinism Neo Darwinism is used in scientific publications all the time. Would you like me to cite examples as published in the science literature? What you give a shit about is no interest of mine but thanks for sharing.
@DarwinAwardsInc I never said anything about rule books and Im using your own logic. You said that ...."the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
I pointed out that many of these states mentioned actually killed and persecuted religious people. That is in fact forcing someone not to believe, and in the worst way, through the barrel of a gun. You don't need a rule book to figure that one out.
@benthemieste"r That is in fact forcing someone not to believe, and in the worst way, through the barrel of a gun. You don't need a rule book to figure that one out." No see, they force them to COVNERT or die. Spanish Inquisition. Unexpected, I know, but goodly christians tortured people using all fun new inventive industrial revoluton machines to help
@Chardansearavitriol 3000 people were executed in the Spanish inquisition during a three hundred year period. Most were either told to convert or leave the country. As bad as the inquisition was the Kmer Rouge alone killed millions of religious people in the killing fields of Asia in a few short years, and even the Khmer Rouge could not compete with what Stalin did, not to mention Mao or what happened in Albania.
Good Christians were also the victims of the inquisitors not just Jews &Muslims
@MetalCatharsis The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, for a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler believed the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff. source wikipedia
@benthemiester All evidence shows hitler to have been a theist, I didn't say Christian specifically, he did believe in a god. You have obviously cherry picked through everything to find justifications for your viewpoint because again, you're an apologist, and I am again, done with this conversation, shut up. Also, where U.S law is now, students can bring bibles to school and pray, maybe some people made lawsuits before, but again slavery and the inquisition shows that christians are far worse
@benthemiester You're like a rabid apologetics dog spouting whatever shit you can pull out of your ass, you have several times been intellectually dishonest and still continue to be,, with this I really wish to be done, I have no interest in anything you have to say, goodbye.
"you're like a rabid apologetics dog spouting whatever shit you can pull out of your ass"
"then you're really pathetic"
"shut up"
Here we go with the childish name calling. That train is never late and is always the last refuge of desperation. Language is what demonstrates a persons character and maturity.
@benthemiester Yeah that ploy just won't work. You have been blatantly intellectually dishonest and I'm calling you on it. Everything I just said was true, you are a ridiculous apologist for the bible, which I didn't think until after you suggested hitler was an atheist, something most evidence rebukes and a classic apologetics tactic, and it fails. You being pathetic is the next logical step as anyone who makes apologetic excuses for religion by bashing atheism is pathetic.
@benthemiester 'Shut up' means I want you to shut the fuck up because I'm done arguing with a moron. Was your stance in any way true you wouldn't feel the need to try using your age as some kind of reason why you should know better. You still have not demonstrated any atrocities done out of non-belief that in any way dwarf the ones done with the use of religious doctrine, and have gone so far as to say that anyone who did do evil was not a believer because you disagree with them.
@benthemiester The Inquisition WAS done by Christians (Catholics to be specific) you don't get to say they weren't true believers just because you disagree with what they did, that's another form of apologetics. And sorry to trust your bubble, but read the bible, the Inquisition falls in perfectly with the mentality of the Christian god.
@MetalCatharsis I have backed up everything I have said with verifiable sources but you believe a modern encyclopedia is not relevant, while at the same time early 20th century Nazi propaganda is, and you offer nothing but the emotional rants of a child as you language attest too.
@benthemiester Hitler said he was a catholic, 'god is with us' was inscribed on nazi belt buckles. Hitler dealt with the vatican and used catholicism for antisemetic purposes. Hitler himself never admitted to mein kamfe being propoganda so if you want to believe post ww2 nazis who wanted to save face in any way possible be my guest. Hitlers 'private statements' which you mailed to me show he had a contempt for Christianity,
@benthemiester well if you'd actually read what I posted I said he was a THEIST, not a christian specifically, he actually considered himself a catholic. His public, AND private statements on religion are conflicting, you just cherry picked the ones that suit you. Hitler himself never said mein kamfe was propoganda and his opinion of it is all that matters as it was his personal memoir and anyone would be willing to cast doubt upon anything he said to save face post ww2
@MetalCatharsis Like I said before, if you are gullible enough to be duped by 1930"s propaganda and his public speeches & pandering, that is your choice.
@benthemiester Where, in his private or his public statements, does he declare himself an atheist? Not just a non christian but an atheist? As far as I can see from what you sent me, nowhere. Are you so rooted in your religion that you view any other opinions of god as atheism? and again, where did hitler himself call mein kamfe propoganda? I don't want to hear the opinions of ex nazis who'll say anything against him to save face.
@benthemiester He also spoke of atheists as the enemy of germany and associated them with communists. He seemed to have a low opinion of religion however you can be a non religious theist and just believe in a god, which he seemed to.
@benthemiester 'Lol, Hitler was completely Christian, or at least theist' nice way to cherry pick douchebag, I never stood behind hitler being of a specific religion all I know for sure is that he was a theist.
@benthemiester 'What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race ... so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. ... Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.' He clearly and consistently expresses his belief that he was divinely sent, and never once expressed any view remotely similar to atheism.
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KingdomSeeker2012 1 month ago
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JezusSlave 1 month ago
Atheism is the denial of god or gods; it can not said to be "morally superior."
MojaveViper29 5 months ago
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@MojaveViper29 "Atheism is the denial of god or gods; it can not said to be "morally superior.""
I agree that lack of belief doesn't define the individual. But let's suppose your god has a history of genocide, murder, revenge, and that they endorse slavery. Just because you might not agree with your god, and seek to somehow justify the scripture, you still worship he-who-has-ideals-that-are-immoral. Clearly, the modern human mind has evolved beyond genocide, murder, revenge, and slavery.
drgoldteef 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
@MojaveViper29 watch and listen first.......
karthikthomask 3 months ago
@MojaveViper29 He is talking about secularism bro. lol. U get rid of nonsense religious beliefs, you WIN
MJFAN666 1 month ago
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mykymyky0001 6 months ago
97,000 isn't so long when a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day :P
chrismstrshk 6 months ago
Atheism has nothing to do with morals; it is simply the denial of our God. And if you say that atheism has superior morals, what source can you give me so I can read up on it?
WayOfTheMaster454 7 months ago
@WayOfTheMaster454 Atheism is the lack of belief in ANY gods due to lack of evidence to support the existence of gods. Atheism itself is a product of rational thinking and rational thinking is the very source of our social morality. In fact the reason why we do not hang gay people, cut off hands of thieves, stone adulterers to death or burn people alive is because of secular morals being reasoned in stark contrast to the religious moral punishments already listed. Yes secular are superior.
tsunami770 7 months ago
@tsunami770 I couldn't agree with you more. I am a strong advocate of rational thinking and morality for the good of humanity. Religion has caused a lot of misery through out history, it is destructive and divisive. Most people could agree on morals, but you will never get a cross section of people to agree on religion.
Retromantra 7 months ago
@tsunami770 --What does secular morality have to say about abortion?
WayOfTheMaster454 7 months ago
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tsunami770 7 months ago
@WayOfTheMaster454 There is a group of people who insist on forcing their religion based beliefs on the sovereingty of women's bodies and their right to choose motherhood while poor children die of hunger elsewhere. That is not morality, that is a dictatorship. That education/prevention are the best tools to deal with potential unexpected pregnacies and that a safe abortion is better than a "back alley" abortion. Women don't take it lightly but it is their decision, not someone else's to make.
tsunami770 7 months ago
@tsunami770 --So in other words it is moral that a woman kill her pre-born for any reason?
WayOfTheMaster454 7 months ago
@WayOfTheMaster454 Limited understaning? You are making some biased assumptions there (terminating a growth of cells who cannot live independently is a kill?) so please stop falselighting. Society does not tolerate murder of children as it is and if you now include cells on that, imagine how many are "killed" for the sake of 1 birth. Your morality disguises the truth that it is really targeted control and empoverishment for women. You are free to choose not to abort and help kids dying of hunger
tsunami770 7 months ago 2
I need to commit this speech to memory so I'll never have to be patronised by a faith head again when they tell me that we get our morals from Christianity, or any Abrahamic religion for that matter.
a7xdude87 8 months ago
There's more to morals than religious beliefs or lack thereof.... and atheism is a lack there of...you can't attach morals to atheism as if it were some sort of religion...there's nothing to attach it to in the first place. I'm an atheist, and I'm telling you here that the only thing keeping me from being immoral is the sovereign above my head and fear of death/imprisonment. That's the factual reality...anything else is just emotional or utilitarian.
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
I actually think that it makes more sense to have multiple gods and goddesses who can make mistakes than one single perfect god.
Heyprinny 8 months ago
@Heyprinny Yep....the Greeks were smart people...
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
The WHOLE western world is obsessed with "MORAL SUPERIORITY". THEISTIC AND ATHEISTIC they don't care as long as their superiority is insured. their thoughts are obsessed with domineering. they can't take what they believe in and roll with it. they have to have 12 volumes worth of arguments on how and/or why the "other guy" sucks. I'm a christian but my focus isn't on the supernatural or the afterlife nor do I fall for the humanistic utopian vison of some athiest. both are illogical.
Ravengaurd6 9 months ago
I am an Atheist, and every time I walk on the sidewalk, and always look down. I do this inconvenient thing to make sure that I don't step on any insects. Name me one other person who does that.
shinokiba 9 months ago
@shinokiba buddhist maybe.
Ravengaurd6 9 months ago
@shinokiba No one, just you....so how is your atheism relevant to that? I've met religious people who are crazy about animal rights... to me it's mostly overrated bullshit...but hey whatever floats your boat....and yes I'm an atheist.
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
@SirGeorge8600 It doesn't, I am just trying to make a point that Atheists have morals to.
shinokiba 8 months ago
moral superiority with out god is moral superiority i take the human race above fairy tales
crackthecorn 10 months ago
Moral superiority of atheism? What a crackpot. No one is morally superior on account of his mindset alone. It's how you behave that's decisive.
jcmmanuel 10 months ago
You silly Christians accuse atheists of spewing hatred yet ignore the vile hate in your bible and committed by your god
espyd21c 10 months ago
@espyd21c Committed by our God? So you're actually saying there was a God that did these things? ...fail
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
THE HIGH PRIESTS of Atheism, including Vanity Fair's starchild Christopher Hitchens, can never duplicate or demonstrate ONENESS. If U read their literature -take the brilliant Bristish scientist Stephen Hawking's black-hole manifesto THE GRAND DESIGN (presumably HIS!) U will eventually stumble upon their simplistic equation, namely, that: "NOTHING = NOTHING", DUH?
SPEAKEZE2 10 months ago
It would be difficult to find a more intelligent response to religion (and life in general) than what Christopher Hitchens has to offer....He is one of my favorite people in the world.
t5998mc 11 months ago
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Closed minds gather in the same closet and speak about how beautiful the walls are, then turn & spew venomous hate, on all who dare to suggest, that a beautiful world truly exist outside of those precious 4 walls. The sad part is, no one wants to risk their closet clout, so no one dares to rise and open the door. Lol WAKE-UP non-believers! Bless The Lord Jesus!
detroitthebaptist 11 months ago
This was the first time I heard Christopher Hitchens....that was like a year ago. Now I utterly adore and respect this man. I hope he pulls through in the next few months. The world would suffer to lose him too soon...
LalEnuNoah 1 year ago
jesus sucked me last night
blindedby2monkeys 1 year ago
Sometimes you just have to throw out morals and use logic.
Skull666Bones 1 year ago
@Skull666Bones And visavirsa....sometimes circular or "practical" logic is very very fallible and doesn't work.
LalEnuNoah 1 year ago
Morality is subjective. An athiest position can more readily change ideas or beliefs found immoral where as a more theist position usually has to be forced to over a long period of time where they can no longer argue their point. Slavery = bad. Beating your wife = bad. Pedofilia = Still no position apparently. They'll have to change the bible AGAIN eventually. You know, the infalliable word of god....Objective morality, don't be stupid.
ant1establishment 1 year ago
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FFreeThinker my msn in profile! Moral Superiority Of Atheism
sexykatie911 1 year ago
I thank goodness Biblical morality and law has been banned in the USA since 1776.
spartacandream 1 year ago 33
@spartacandream
Pardon me? All vice laws are religiously inspired. You may be able to buy beer or liquor on Sunday, but I can't...
PixelPariah 9 months ago
@PixelPariah Certainly they've made inroads with making laws that are religionbased, and see? Our country is heading in the wrong direction. With prohibition (of both marijuana and alcohol) we have gang violence. We did cut out prohibition on alcohol but its not gone all the way. Meanwhile, we've got a HUGE gang problem.
I agree, but those vice laws make our world worse. Technically, the vice laws are illegal, they're a way the law contradicts itself. You are right though.
spartacandream 9 months ago
@spartacandream Then you need to take a second look at ordinances, zoning regulations and laws, thousands of which, are made sick by the iron fist of theocracy in America. We certainly toil under the cult de jour, and it must be fought at every turn.
bcgazette 8 months ago
Faith in country/leaders/philosophy led to the holocaust & the twisting of communism into something evil but i think faith in god leads to even more death. moses, mohammad, jesus(if he was real) r responsible for more death and suffering than any1.
faith is not a virtue.
jake7864 1 year ago 2
@jake7864 how are they responsible for the deaths? They never said make a religion of their name...and if it weren't for them then we'd still have paganism doing the same thing... Also WW2 killed over 40-50 million people and communist socialism has killed around a quarter to half a billion people...is that seriously how much religion killed when in medieval times the world population was barely 3 quarters of a billion? Mind your history...I'm an agnostic but don't spew bullshit.
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
@SirGeorge8600 I didn't put that much thought into that comment & I'm not that proud of it. I don't know why I wrote that drivel I was either drunk, tired or something else. I usually try not to spew that type of bullshit. sorry dude.
jake7864 8 months ago
@jake7864 eh, no worries...all is well...I too am drunk :-)
SirGeorge8600 8 months ago
multi-part Question for atheists: What is morality, please define?....Is rape or murder wrong, if yes please give reason?
joe018687645 1 year ago
@joe018687645 -Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is a system of conduct and ethics that is virtuous. It can also be used in regard to sexual matters and chastity.
-Rape and murder cause suffering, so they are wrong. In case of rape I think it cant be subjective, I cant think of a situation where raping would be right. But for example to kill a person who is killing your innocent mother would be right action to take.
So that rule is subjective.
bary1234 1 year ago
@bary1234 Ok I was actually loking for a self defined answer, but ok. Rape causes suffering so that is wrong, but why? I mean im not splitting hairs I like this debate. What Im asking you is what objective value do you hold that says its wrong?(TO BE CONT)
joe018687645 1 year ago
It must be objective because morality in itself has no common bond subjectesism. Meaning, Hitler sincerely believed in Aryan suprmacy, so he had an objective reason for calling my idea of evil good. I just think everyone needs an objective view of morality because it is an intangible idea. IMHO
joe018687645 1 year ago
@joe018687645:There is no absolute morality.Morality is made up by humans, and we define it. So these would just be my definitions, based on definitions from society and people around me.
This is just going to be splitting hairs, I dont have any more profound explanation than wrong is wrong because I feel like it. Suffering is something every living creature tries to avoid.I dont want to suffer myself and I dont want to cause suffering. And I dont want anybody else to cause suffering either.
bary1234 1 year ago
@joe018687645 I'd like to try to give a shot at this question...if you don't mind. I think your arguement about Hitler actually proves the opposite to be true....that an objective veiw of morality is the wrong way to think about it. Yes (it can be argued) that Hitler Honestly believed that what he was doing was right. So was he acting morally? Well if we are to say no, then we must define why. IF he was right about the Jews then he would be right, and everyone would agree. But [continued]
frankensteinmoneymac 1 year ago
@joe018687645 [continuation] ....and everyone would agree. But he wasn't right (at least most of us including me believe he wasn't)....So if you are saying that his imorality is based on being WRONG, then you walk a thin line. Are the retarded immoral? They are wrong quite a bit. See where that leads? Now I would suggest that Hitler was not wrong, or stupid...but rather that he intentionally ignored facts to the contrary of his belief. He had blind faith. This is in [CONTINUED AGAIN]
frankensteinmoneymac 1 year ago
@joe018687645 [SECOND CONTINUATION] ....He had blind faith. This is IMHO the root of most evil. The ignorance of truth...or if you will, ignorance. Combined with this should be the simple Idea that you should not unjustly inflict harm. How do I define that? Well to punch a man @ random in the street is unjustly harming him. Punching him in a boxing ring is justified because it is an agreed upon sport between the two. So to refine 10 commandments to 2. Dont be ignorant. Dont inflict unjust harm.
frankensteinmoneymac 1 year ago
@joe018687645 Well, morality stems from the instinct to survive. Humans as a species, are more productive when they co-operate. Raping someone is not co-operation, therefore it is wrong and detrimental to our success.
DYTisOver 1 year ago
Atheism has no moral teachings or tradition; it is only a dis-belief in god.
TheUltraHorror559 1 year ago
"Morality is doing what is right regardless what you are told, religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right".
kaxitaksi 1 year ago
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@kaxitaksi "Morality is doing what is right regardless what you are told, religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right".
Quotation marks and all. Nice sound bite. Just one question. Who determines who is right? You, me, Stalin, Hitler or MotherTeresa? Who is the judge? Is it the official left or right winged Judge who works for you, me, Stalin, Hitler or Mother Teresa?
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester "Who is the judge?" Society and humanity. The people. The collective. Not one person. And certainly not a god who thinks killing newborns, genocide, slavery, public executions etc are a good idea.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "Who is the judge?" Society and humanity. The people. The collective"
Which society? Nazi Germany society? The Agrarian society of Albania 1945? The head hunter society of jungles of Borneo? The Aztecs? The Taliban and Sharia Law societies, or do only the society you choose count? And who judges this method.....society?.... Classic tautology. Didn't Napoleon have something there when he said "Morality lies on the side of the biggest gun?" Isn't this more accurate?
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Society being the PEOPLE, not their rulers. Society as a whole has come to the conclusion that certain things are wrong, there are areas of grey but other than that we keep fairly consitent, it's mostly the religious nutbags that still cling to bronze age doctrine that condones every atrocity known to man.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis I know you said "or at least theist" but you said you never said he was a Christian, thats why I provided you saying it in your own words.
I have had a lot of patience with your childish behavior and language but enough is enough. Take care and good luck.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Yeah the whole superior attitude doesn'tmake you any less wrong in pretty much every view you've expressed, also you continued your shit even after Iseveral times said Iwas done so don't pretend that I'm the one who dragged it on. Calling someone out on being a moron is not childish, expressing your opinions and feelings is not childish, calling other people childish at any opportunity, Is in itself, childish. Goodbye.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester "Which society?" The one you are subject to.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "Which society?" The one you are subject to"
So if I were a muslim and believed in stoning people or if I was born in Stalin Russia and believed it was OK to kill 20 million people then thats the morality compass I should follow. OK sure no problem. Makes great sense.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester You make the mistake of look at other societies through the morality goggles of your own.
Taliban muslims DO think that stoning those people IS their moral obligation. And they feel that WE are immoral because we eat pork. WE, disagree with them, based on OUR morals. And I'm willing to bet that 100 years from now, our grand-grandchildren will consider things immoral that WE consider moral today.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@benthemiester In short: morals evolve and are subjective. They find their origins in culture, society, traditions, background, education, upbringing...
It's not a white and black issue.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@benthemiester : Are you going to try to justify your belief in imaginary god by this argument? Just remember, there never was any evidence for gods, there is no reason to believe in gods. Morality comes from people, we are the ones making it up as we go along.
So the answer is you, me, hitler, stalin, mother Teresa. Society is the judge, and every individual is the judge.
bary1234 1 year ago 24
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benthemiester 1 year ago
Most atheist will say that Christians are the scourge of mankind, but few act on their dogma. Hitchens chose to live in the US which is a country with a Christian majority who embraced & ratified a secular constitution that allows freedom of thought, speech & expression.
I challenge any atheist who shares Hitchens view to go and visit an atheist state & see how much freedom u have there. I don't see atheist flocking to these countries where people can be jailed for dissent and speaking freely.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester One: there is not 'Atheist state.' If you mean a country in which government and religion ar eseperate, America IS such a nation. Two: 'countries where people can be jailed for dissent and speaking freely.' You mean like the middle east? Places that force all citizens to convert to islam and where women get their heads chopped off for driving cars? those types of nations?
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis A secular state does not mean an atheist state. If you want to research it further key in words "state atheism". Yes there are some Muslim countries that are also very repressive. I am not a Muslim but I do know many Muslims who don't believe in Sharia law and are pretty nice people. The US which has a Christian majority is far from being perfect, but it is a free country and hundreds of thousands come here to live every year, including atheist.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester The U.S has a christian majority, but it's laws have nothing to do with christianity and everyone has freedom of religion, what the majority is is irrelevant. There is as far as I know not one country where atheism is enforced by law. America being a free country ahs nothing to do with it's people being christian, at all.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis "The U.S has a christian majority, but it's laws have nothing to do with christianity and everyone has freedom of religion,
U don't get it, we ratified these freedoms.
If a nation made up of a Christian majority is willing to, ratify & in many cases give their lives in defending a secular constitution, then I think this makes my point. If you believe a majority is irrelevant in a Democratically based Republic like the US, then I would encourage u to go back to school.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester One: it was Christians who brought over black slaves and used the bible to justify it. Two: Christians are generally intolerant to homosexuality and other religions. The United States being free is despite it's Christian population, not because of it. Were it up to U.S christians, many freedoms would be denied, and are being denied in the case of gay marriage. And Nazi germany was a deeply religious nation having ties to the vatican.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis cont.... Vietnam allows religion approved by the state but also has government restrictions on religion and has a poor human rights record. Its up to you to research. I cant hold your hand.
benthemiester 1 year ago
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benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis"There is as far as I know etc,
How could you know? You haven't been around long enough. As for democracy, again I strongly urge you to research it a little better. You barely learned today that atheist states exist. My thread was in response to someone who blamed Christians for repression, yet even you admit that the US is a free country in spite of a Christian majority. I would also encourage you to research Judeo Christian law and its relevance to our non statutory laws.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester What atheist state where. name one country where by law religion is not allowed.
Yes, in SPITE of, meaning if the christians had their way we'd still have black slaves andgays would be thrown in jailor worse. A representative democracy is irrelevant to an actual democracy. Also, clearly YOU haven't researched history enough, look up the Inquisition, Christians are the most repressive group of all besides muslims, hostory has shown that.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis In China religion is controlled and monitored by the government and dissenter have been put in prison, and freedom of speech and dissent is not a right. The same can be said of N Korea where the government tells the outside world that there is freedom of religion but it is controlled by the government. Laos and Albania have very poor records on human rights and personal freedoms especially dissent of government policies.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester China, north korea, soviet russia etc are not "atheist states". They are COMMUNIST states.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis cont... Gays do very well in this country some of the wealthiest people in the US are gay as well as many celebrities. On the average they do very well.
as do atheist.
It seems you have now changed the rhetoric. Just a minute ago you said all were free and a Christian majority had nothing to do with it. Well then apply those same principles to gays and slavery. Didn't you say a Christian majority was irrelevant?
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Seriously, you want to make the argument that the U.S is somehow free because of it's Christian population and just wanna gloss over the enslavement of blacks and repression of gays and likly a host of other things done by american christians and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis 'Seriously, you want to make the argument that the U.S is somehow free because of it's Christian population and just wanna gloss over the enslavement of blacks and repression of gays and likly a host of other things done by american christians and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?"
Its interesting that a minute ago you said "everyone is free" but it had nothing to do with a Christian majority but when it comes to slavery you have changed your tune.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Again I cant emphasize enough how important research is and in this case, on Christian abolitionist that helped shape the way the country dealt with this issue. Hundreds of thousands of people gave their lives in the civil war to right injustices. The video is entitled moral superiority of atheism and its this that I contend.
We all have blemishes and no one is more superior to anyone else.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester You've just mentioned two nations who enforce and control what religion people can have, that is not atheism in any sense. Vietnam and chine aren't without religion, they don't prevent people from worshiping they just tell them what they can worship. So again, what states enforce the non-belief in god? None.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis *China
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCathar"However those who are against those freedoms are mainly Christians"
This is just false. From the war of Independence,1812, Spanish American, WW1 & WW2 when we threatened by a madman in Europe who was slaughtering millions it was Christians, Jews and people of all faiths that stood up and gave their lives for the freedoms we have. I would love to say that at least a small amount of atheist helped out, but according to most atheist, they don't fight in wars only religious people do.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester No, it may not be absolutely true for all, but it is true that the majority of people who are against things like homosexuality and abortion are Christian, I'm sorry you don't know this you have obviously not observed the world around you. Also, you bring up world war 2, well Hitlers belief in god and his use of theism during his genocide is well documented fact, the fact that believers fought him doesn't make for morality by religion...
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester ....or change the fact that the worst acts ever done by humanity were done by Theists, Christians especially. Again, look up the inquisition.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis "they don't prevent people from worshiping they just tell them what they can worship"
If u read my original thread it was about restriction of personal freedoms. If u think having the government tell u what you can and cant believe in is sufficient freedom, then you & I have a different definition of the word freedom. Its like saying I only beat my wife sometimes. China, N Korea, Vietnam, Albania, Laos, all rank low on human rights & personal freedom some worst than others.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Yes, they have restriction of personal freedom, and I've just pointed out that has nothing to do with atheism and these states are not atheist. And your response is an irrelevant accusation that I somehow support state control. You have still not named an atheist state.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis "these states are not atheist."
I have just sent cited verifiable source that refutes your statement above. Its to large for youtube.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester 1: most of those are out of date, name a current one. 2: imposing state sanctioned churches is not the same as being atheist, neither is persecuting religions unless the reason for persecution is in itself that the religions believe in a god.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Most of what are out of date? Please tell me where in article that the countries I cited were out of date.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester most of the examples are of nations that have since changed.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis I didn't accuse you of ignorance until you tried to make claims that showed a willful ignorance. Your to young for me to expect you to know things that take years of research to understand. I am not clamming to know it all and will continue to learn until I die. I am just saying based on your answers you haven't done much research.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester 3: even were these states imposed atheism, atheism has that one factor that you miss, it's not a dogma and it doesn't tell people how to live their lives, therefor just because some atheists oppress people says nothing about atheism in itself, unlike Christianity where intolerance violence and oppression are explicitly condoned several time sin the book that Christians follow.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Hitler despised Christianity and we have the documents in his own words to prove it. Hitler never tried to convert Jews in to Christianity like the inquisition tried to do. He gassed them. He was a firm believer in Darwinism, eugenics, race purification and survival of the fittest. Slaughtering Jews was as natural to him as natural selection.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Lol, Hitler was completely Christian, or at leats theist, we have well documented accounts of that in mein kamfe for one. Hitler was not by any means atheist.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis There will always be people who use religion for their own gain. Jesus himself said that there would be wolves in sheep clothing and would someday even infiltrate the church. He prophesied this 2000 years ago. He never said follow me and everything will be fine and dandy. If you don't know this, then you have never studied the scripture you profess to know so much about. We all have the potential to do bad things. It is redemption that is the true message and yes pleasing God.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Pleasing God who says to love your enemy and judge not lest ye be Judged or pleasing yourself. Which one is the more selfish?
benthemiester 1 year ago
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@benthemiester 'Pleasing God who says to love your enemy and judge not lest ye be Judged or pleasing yourself. Which one is the more selfish?'
The one that doesn't necessitate condoning the ownership of another human being the mawling of children by bears or forcing a raped woman to marry her rapist. Christianity is inheriently without any moral compass teaching only obediance to authority.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester Darwin's publications were put on the nazi "forbidden books" list by adolf himself, douchebag.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc I know people like Nick Matzke have made similar claims but offers no proof, but maybe you know something he doesn't. Please give citation.
If you cant, then I have to believe you may be a very gullible person who believes everything you read without researching it first, and also one who uses childish language.
benthemiester 1 year ago
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@benthemiester 'you may be a very gullible person who believes everything you read without researching it first, and also one who uses childish language.'
You may have some credibility as soon as you cite anything other than wikipedia, until then shut the fuck up. Oooh sorry, too childish for you?
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester I've read this once and don't remember where. I also don't feel a need to look it up. Because it's unimportant anyway. No matter wich way, regardless of Hitler's motivations... it doesn't change anything to evolution theory. Common ancestory will not dissappear because some facist killed a bunch of people he deemed genetically inferior.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@benthemiester And 4: Again, Inquisition and holocaust, ignoring several other acts, those 2 alone constitute more horrors than anything known to have been motivated by non belief. Christians are immoral, they not only do more immoral things throughout history, whatever good things they do are selfish acts unless done in direct conflict with their bible.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis People like Martin Luther and other less known Christians fought against the medieval church that tried to deny the people the Bible. These men were not men of God and they did not follow teachings of Christ nor did they spread the Bible, but tried to interpret it for their own gain. Even so,2000 people were executed during the Spanish inquisition. 90 million died in wars fought because of Fascism,Communism,Imperialism these world wars were not controlled by the church.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Everyone tries to interperet the bible because it is self contraditory and you can get it to say just about anything. just because Christians perform actions you don't view as good doesn't mean they aren't believers. The church has controlled and ordered violence, and the vatican made deals with hitler.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Millions of Christians were thrown to the lions & millions more were persecuted by Stalin Mao & other tyrants. If its not your thing then its not your thing but don't become self-righteous & judge a whole group based on the actions of a few. Most Christians did not own slaves. This was something that came with wealth and entitlement and there were Christian abolitionist. Slaves in biblical times lived better than most of the population & many sold themselves into slavery.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Its unfortunate that even today a person like yourself can be taken in by 1930"s Nazi Propaganda. I referenced his private letters. If you had taken the time to study subject you would find that most historians regard his public statements as Nazi Propaganda. I find this not only unfortunate but vey sad.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis"Christian doesn't change the fact that majority of the Right wingers intolerantly trying to restrict freedoms are Christian"
Please tell me how your freedoms are being restricted?
Wasn't it he atheist who tried to sue school districts because they didn't want to allow people to say the word under God in the classroom? How many Christians have sued atheist for wanting to opt out of saying the word under God? Atheist have sued schools for even critiquing Darwinism.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Schools have been sued for showing favoritism to a religion and making every student listen to it, students can pray all they want, they can take a bible to class, they can get on their hands and knees and say 50 hail mary's.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
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@MetalCatharsis "Schools have been sued for showing favoritism to a religion and making every student listen to it"
Ok cite an example where everyone had religion forced on them or were made to do something against there will.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Even his ally Mussolini called Mien Kampf "little more than commonplace clichés"
Source wikipedia
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester By the way, wikepedia doesn't constitute proper research, if that's your source for everything then you're really pathetic.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
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@MetalCatharsis "By the way, wikepedia doesn't constitute proper research, if that's your source for everything then you're really pathetic"
This is coming from someone who has cited nothing and doesn't believe state atheism exist, even when sourced. I cited Wikipedia because Richard Dawkins is a fan of Wikipedia and most atheist love and trust Richard Dawkins. If you have a problem with articles cited then provided verifiable source and have it changed. Let me know how it turns out.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I've seen you mention communist states. An "atheist" state is not existant. It can't exist even. You seem to forget what atheism is. It's only the rejection of theist claims. It only tells you what people are NOT: theist.
It doesn't tell you what they ARE. No dogma's, doctrines or whatever are associated with atheism. Atheism is a pretty void word wich only exists so that cdesign proponentists such as yourself could label those that don't believe the same shit as you do.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc Secondly you better get yourself a lawyer because not only has Einstein been critiqued many times in many schools and publications, but he himself was his own worst critic. He called the cosmological constant argument one of his worst blunders. He was also wrong about the speed of light never being able to go faster than 299 792 458 m / s. He never found a unified theory. Hawkingism as you call it is not even a theory, and again even he has criticized himself. Your a fool.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester You are a fucking morron dude. yes, now I am getting rude. The reason is your idiocy. "hawkingism" is not even a theory... but "Einsteinism" is? LOL fucking idiot, get a fucking clue.
When I talked about Einstein I was OBVIOUSLY talking about his theories and equations for wich there is scientific consensus: fabric of space-time, relativity, E=mc², prediction of black holes etc...
read a fucking book, damn!
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "hawkingism" is not even a theory... but "Einsteinism is"
Just one question, can you please tell me where you mean by the theory of Einsteinism? The theory of Einsteinism isn't a defined term, though some refer to it as his political or religious beliefs or an Urban Joke. Are you saying his political or religious beliefs or an urban joke are a scientific theory? Maybe you means General relativity but are ignorant on the terminology.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Obviously I was being sarcastic by showing that refering to evolution theory as "darwinism" with as purpose to try and trick the uneducated into thinking that evolution theory is not science but some kind of religion, is a stupid thing to do.
I did that by speaking about "einsteinism" and "hawkingism". If you want I can add "mendeljevism", "hubbleism", "bellism", "newtonism",...
The fact that you didn't get this shows that you have no clue what is actually going on.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "An "atheist" state is not existent It can't exist "
State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
State atheism has been defined as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice. ...
en wikipedia org/wiki/State_atheism -
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester 'State atheism has been defined as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice.'
That is irrelevant to atheism with the exception of the use of the same word. Athesm is simply a lack of belief, it cannot be enforced it has no dogma, the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever, wiki fails on this one, sorry.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Also no current government promotes atheism, certainly not the communist states you have mentioned.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis "the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
And even in that situation, this state would be defined by the totalitarianism it adheres to (like communism), not atheism itself.
Wich is what would be required for an "atheist state"... that it is defined by atheism. But since atheism has no doctrine, no dogma and doesn't define ANYTHING, the term "atheist state" is pretty much nonsensical. :-)
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc
URBAN DICTIONARY Einsteinism 5 thumbs up
buy einsteinism mugs, tshirts and magnets
Refers to a joke which becomes much less funny if it requires an explanation.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester You are referring to an act by a state. Not to the essense of a state. An "atheist state" is not the same thing as "state atheism" or "state sponsored atheism".
Atheism doesn't define these nations. Other things do. An "atheist nation" would be defined BY atheism. But since atheism is the rejection of a claim and doesn't define ANYTHING, an "atheist state" is a logical impossibility.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "You are referring to an act by a state" I told you to look up state atheism and you told me it cannot exist. Yes state atheism or an atheist state as opposed to organic atheism. You don't seem to understand the subject very well and are using a semantic argument.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester No, you told me to look up "atheist state", not "state atheism".
The first is when a nation is defined by atheism (wich is impossible, atheism has no dogma's or doctrines, hence it can't define anything). The second is when a state (ANY state) forces atheism upon its people (wich I guess would mean forcing them to disbelief - wich tbh, is also kind of strange to say the least...)
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@benthemiester "You don't seem to understand the subject very well and are using a semantic argument."
Nope. You don't seem to understand what atheism is. You seem to think there's like a whole rulebook for being an atheist and a whole bunch of claims and doctrines associated with it. You are wrong.
A-theist = not theist. No more, no less. Regardless of what religious folks claim.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc You use a word like Einsteinism and Hawkinism whether sarcastically or because you didn't understand terms, or both, and because you didn't understand that Darwinism is a defined term. You also said state atheism was impossible, but it is a documented verifiable historical fact, and your calling me ignorant.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
I think when you slaughter & persecute religious people as Stalin, China, Khmer Rouge or Albania did, then thats a good way to force people to believe in no religion at all. Call me crazy or any other foul word you choose.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Sure. But if you look into it, you'll see that their motivation was not atheism. It rather was their own thrist for power, their communism, etc.
It's completely ridiculous to associate such things with atheism. Since atheism is essentially a void term. It tells you what something is NOT: a theist.
You can have a religious state: a nation defined by the religion it is ruled by. But you can't have an atheist state, since atheism doesn't define anything.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc "atheism doesn't define anything"
Merriam-Webster - 1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness 2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
The proper term is Mendelian or Newtonian. Darwinism is a defined term and is not a pejorative. It is most popular in England. Dawkins considers himself to be a Darwinist.
Darwinism- is a set of movements and concepts related to ideas of transmutation of species or evolution, etc
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester I don't give a shit what dawkins calls himself. I know darwinism is a proper term when used correctly, wich is NOT in scientific context. The problem is that you people use it as a synonym for evolution theory in a pathetic way to discredit it as solid science.
Fact of the matter is that in the actual scientific literature, you will NEVER see evolution theory refered to as "darwinism".
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc Darwinism........."I know darwinism is a proper term when used correctly, wich is NOT in scientific context"
Are you saying that the Modern/Darwinian evolutionary synthesis is not scientific? The term Darwinist, Darwinism Neo Darwinism is used in scientific publications all the time. Would you like me to cite examples as published in the science literature? What you give a shit about is no interest of mine but thanks for sharing.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@DarwinAwardsInc I never said anything about rule books and Im using your own logic. You said that ...."the only way you could possibly connect atheism with totalitarianism is if they foced people to believe in NO religion whatsoever"
I pointed out that many of these states mentioned actually killed and persecuted religious people. That is in fact forcing someone not to believe, and in the worst way, through the barrel of a gun. You don't need a rule book to figure that one out.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemieste"r That is in fact forcing someone not to believe, and in the worst way, through the barrel of a gun. You don't need a rule book to figure that one out." No see, they force them to COVNERT or die. Spanish Inquisition. Unexpected, I know, but goodly christians tortured people using all fun new inventive industrial revoluton machines to help
Chardansearavitriol 1 year ago
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benthemiester 1 year ago
@Chardansearavitriol 3000 people were executed in the Spanish inquisition during a three hundred year period. Most were either told to convert or leave the country. As bad as the inquisition was the Kmer Rouge alone killed millions of religious people in the killing fields of Asia in a few short years, and even the Khmer Rouge could not compete with what Stalin did, not to mention Mao or what happened in Albania.
Good Christians were also the victims of the inquisitors not just Jews &Muslims
benthemiester 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, for a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler believed the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff. source wikipedia
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester All evidence shows hitler to have been a theist, I didn't say Christian specifically, he did believe in a god. You have obviously cherry picked through everything to find justifications for your viewpoint because again, you're an apologist, and I am again, done with this conversation, shut up. Also, where U.S law is now, students can bring bibles to school and pray, maybe some people made lawsuits before, but again slavery and the inquisition shows that christians are far worse
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester You're like a rabid apologetics dog spouting whatever shit you can pull out of your ass, you have several times been intellectually dishonest and still continue to be,, with this I really wish to be done, I have no interest in anything you have to say, goodbye.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis
"you're like a rabid apologetics dog spouting whatever shit you can pull out of your ass"
"then you're really pathetic"
"shut up"
Here we go with the childish name calling. That train is never late and is always the last refuge of desperation. Language is what demonstrates a persons character and maturity.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Yeah that ploy just won't work. You have been blatantly intellectually dishonest and I'm calling you on it. Everything I just said was true, you are a ridiculous apologist for the bible, which I didn't think until after you suggested hitler was an atheist, something most evidence rebukes and a classic apologetics tactic, and it fails. You being pathetic is the next logical step as anyone who makes apologetic excuses for religion by bashing atheism is pathetic.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Right on.
DarwinAwardsInc 1 year ago
@benthemiester 'Shut up' means I want you to shut the fuck up because I'm done arguing with a moron. Was your stance in any way true you wouldn't feel the need to try using your age as some kind of reason why you should know better. You still have not demonstrated any atrocities done out of non-belief that in any way dwarf the ones done with the use of religious doctrine, and have gone so far as to say that anyone who did do evil was not a believer because you disagree with them.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester The Inquisition WAS done by Christians (Catholics to be specific) you don't get to say they weren't true believers just because you disagree with what they did, that's another form of apologetics. And sorry to trust your bubble, but read the bible, the Inquisition falls in perfectly with the mentality of the Christian god.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis I have backed up everything I have said with verifiable sources but you believe a modern encyclopedia is not relevant, while at the same time early 20th century Nazi propaganda is, and you offer nothing but the emotional rants of a child as you language attest too.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Hitler said he was a catholic, 'god is with us' was inscribed on nazi belt buckles. Hitler dealt with the vatican and used catholicism for antisemetic purposes. Hitler himself never admitted to mein kamfe being propoganda so if you want to believe post ww2 nazis who wanted to save face in any way possible be my guest. Hitlers 'private statements' which you mailed to me show he had a contempt for Christianity,
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester well if you'd actually read what I posted I said he was a THEIST, not a christian specifically, he actually considered himself a catholic. His public, AND private statements on religion are conflicting, you just cherry picked the ones that suit you. Hitler himself never said mein kamfe was propoganda and his opinion of it is all that matters as it was his personal memoir and anyone would be willing to cast doubt upon anything he said to save face post ww2
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Like I said before, if you are gullible enough to be duped by 1930"s propaganda and his public speeches & pandering, that is your choice.
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester Where, in his private or his public statements, does he declare himself an atheist? Not just a non christian but an atheist? As far as I can see from what you sent me, nowhere. Are you so rooted in your religion that you view any other opinions of god as atheism? and again, where did hitler himself call mein kamfe propoganda? I don't want to hear the opinions of ex nazis who'll say anything against him to save face.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester He also spoke of atheists as the enemy of germany and associated them with communists. He seemed to have a low opinion of religion however you can be a non religious theist and just believe in a god, which he seemed to.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis "I said he was a THEIST, not a christian"
"Lol, Hitler was completely Christian"
benthemiester 1 year ago
@benthemiester 'Lol, Hitler was completely Christian, or at least theist' nice way to cherry pick douchebag, I never stood behind hitler being of a specific religion all I know for sure is that he was a theist.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@benthemiester 'What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race ... so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. ... Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.' He clearly and consistently expresses his belief that he was divinely sent, and never once expressed any view remotely similar to atheism.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago