M-1: Khamanaev vs. Cristea, An Illegal Eye Gouge Attempt

[vanrog3142]

Каманаев - шакал

[osmiu]

get the fuck out of the sport , bum !!!!

[ryan36ish]

to save yallguys sometime it happens 2:54

[kenseisato1989]

good thing the reff saw it

[EndDepravity]

LoL sherdog is retarded. They said he won this by triangle.

[Anandfulness]

Shows you how fake competition is. Eyegouge is a valuable tool in real life. So is breaking the fingers, hitting the groin and throat, slamming the ears, biting, etc... I mean, I agree, he shouldn't have done that inside a competition. You must respect the rules of the game. But it shows you how fake the whole thing is. I see a lot of matches where a perfect groin kick or a perfect throat slam could've ended the whole thing... It's frustrating to watch almost. Competition is so useless.

[EPR89]

@Anandfulness It's not fake, it's a sport and therefore follows rules. People who compare MMA to fights in real life are just doing it to get attention.

[Anandfulness]

@EPR89 Depends on your definition of fake. I say that any fight with rules is fake. And MMA has many rules. So it's fake. You can win or lose, and that is real. But the notion that these techniques are 100% effective all the time is fake.

It's fair to compare MMA to real fights since that's what many instructors promote. They say ''it's great for self defense'' but then they only teach the techniques that are allowed in competition. See my point?

[EPR89]

@Anandfulness Yes. Seen from that perspective it's absolutely valid to call it that way.

[Ljenkins9000]

"Depends on your definition of fake. I say that any fight with rules is fake. And MMA has many rules."

Sure, MMA fights aren't actual street fights, but an MMA fighter is a million times as prepared for a street fight than anyone else.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 A professional MMA fighter will have a very good chance. But an amateur MMA fighter will not be better prepared than someone that trains (the same amount of time) for self defense.

Self defense schools will learn you every aspect (knives, multiple opponents, what to look for, how to talk, how to act, what weak points to strike and how, legal procedures, etc...)

MMA schools only learn you how to ''win'' under controlled circumstances. That's a weaker system in my eyes.

[Ljenkins9000]

Yes, what you're saying makes absolute perfect sense in theory. But until I see some proof that what a self defense place teaches (like a Krav Maga school) actually works under pressure, I won't believe it. We know MMA works. It's the evolution of fighting with little-to-no rules and we have videos available online of MMA practitioners defending themselves in real fights. What I want is a real street fight caught on tape of a Krav Maga (or other self defense) person defending themselves.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 : The little rules that MMA has makes MMA completely unrealistic in my eyes.

I don't think you can 'prove' that MMA works better because MMA has more videos online. That's not research.

We spar with facemasks, groin and throat protectors. So I don't need to be 'convinced'. My techniques work because I test them. If my techniques wouldn't work, I would never train them. That is a waste of time in my opinion. Eyegouges, groinkick, throatslam, biting... All very valuable in combat.

[Ljenkins9000]

@Anandfulness "The little rules that MMA has makes MMA completely unrealistic in my eyes."

There are still MMA orgs with no rules at all. The early UFCs technically had no rules at all as well (and eye gouges WERE used). Krav Maga or other self defense types do not compete or fight people in a no-rules environment. If they did, they would undoubtedly be better than MMA guys in that situation. However, it is still only in MMA that you will find no-rules fights.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 ''However, it is still only in MMA that you will find no-rules fights.''

So what? You still have weight-classes, no multiple opponents, no weapons, a ring, a judge, clothing rules, etc..

In my school I need to spar against (resisting) multiple opponents, opponents with plastic marker-knives, opponents that are bigger than me, opponents with thick jackets, outdoors, indoors, tight quarters, etc... Each month a different situation and a different case to solve.

[Ljenkins9000]

"The MMA fighter is in a clear disadvantage."

Not true. The MMA fighter is MUCH better at punching, kicking, elbows, knees, take downs, take down defense, wrestling, grappling, submissions including chokes and breaking bones, etc., etc. So even if it is true that a "TMA" guy really has an advantage with biting and eye gouging, they're still at a gigantic disadvantage overall.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000

". The MMA fighter is MUCH better at punching, kicking, elbows, knees, take downs, take down defense, wrestling, grappling, submissions including chokes and breaking bones, etc."

The only reason that they've better is because they train more. And the reason why you are so convinced that they are better is because you haven't met enough serious traditional martial artists. 10 hours of self-defense/week > 10 hours of learning a ringsport.

[Ljenkins9000]

"you haven't met enough serious traditional martial artists."

Not true. Kyokushin guys spar all the time and they do full contact. They are good fighters because they are used to full contact. That's why you see them competing in K1 and MMA. Same with Sanda. People who do crappy arts like Wing Chun or "traditional Kung Fu" spar so rarely or so lightly, they really don't know what to do when put up against someone who does. That's why they get the piss beaten out of them in MMA.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 "spar so rarely or so lightly, they really don't know what to do when put up against someone who does."

Like I said, you don't know any serious traditional martial artists. Kyukushin only spars below the head and Sanda is a ringsport. You don't know anything about traditional sparring. Groin, throat and face-protection at full force and full speed, that's what traditional sparring is about. Then you can implement weapons and multiple opponents at full force.

[Ljenkins9000]

@Anandfulness "Kyukushin only spars below the head and Sanda is a ringsport"

You seem to think that if something works in "the ring" it somehow cannot possibly work "in the streetz". Why is that? How are the two suddenly mutually exclusive? It's like saying we'll have practitioners of different styles fight, and we'll know that the ones which lose are the best fighting styles. Makes no sense.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 Read the message and look at the videos that I sent you. I don't give a shit about MMA. It's competition. Competition is worthless because it focuses on 'winning', money, trophies, etc... There is absolutely no room for learning. The only way to learn is to spar with no rules and under friendly circumstances. If all you do is train for a competition-fight, then that's as far as you'll go: competition. If you train for real life, then you can work your entire life.

[Ljenkins9000]

"Competition is worthless because it focuses on 'winning', money, trophies, etc."

Oh yeah, that really makes proving yourself worthless... Dumb.

"The only way to learn is to spar with no rules and under friendly circumstances"

That's what MMA guys have been saying all along. It's the TMA world which doesn't spar in anything close to no rules but thinks that since they do forms and practice their eye gouges on the air, they think they can deal with a real fight. It's pretty silly.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 "Oh yeah, that really makes proving yourself worthless... Dumb."

Proving yourself... Dumb.

"since they do forms and practice their eye gouges on the air,"

Forms are just basic training. Just like a Muay Thai boxer that drills his combos, a traditional martial artist will drill his techniques in a more artful way. Muay thai also has forms, but the MMA-crowd does not like anything more sophisticated than a simple punch-punch-kick combo. Formlessness through form is the real goal.

[Ljenkins9000]

"So what? You still have weight-classes, no multiple opponents, no weapons, a ring, a judge, clothing rules, etc."

Ok. I think you really should watch the first 10 UFCs. They were single elimination style vs. style MA tournaments with literally no rules (yes, even biting and eye gouging were technically allowed and DID happen). There were no judges, no rounds, no time limits, no clothing requirements, etc. Many practitioners of "deadly" styles showed up which you normally don't see anymore.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 ''Many practitioners of "deadly" styles showed up which you normally don't see anymore.''

The styles that show up for competitions are usually the styles that need to prove something. That tells you a lot about how deadly they think they are.

[Ljenkins9000]

@Anandfulness “I don't think you can 'prove' that MMA works better because MMA has more videos online. That's not research.”

That’s the problem. There is very little empirical evidence to look at. However, it’s still the only empirical evidence we have, and 100% of it points to the effectiveness of MMA in the street rather than the so-called “self defense” arts.

[Ljenkins9000]

“We spar with facemasks, groin and throat protectors. So I don't need to be 'convinced'... Eyegouges, groinkick, throatslam, biting... All very valuable in combat”

Problem is you don’t actually eye gouge or “throatslam” your partners. You think you are practicing deadly techniques, but you don’t really know if they work because they’ve never actually been used on a resisting opponent or even a compliant one.

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 I see, you assume that we don't train in a realistic manner because the techniques seem too deadly to train. Let me explain: Sparring means fighting a resisting opponent. I can throatslam and perform a well placed groinkick because my sparring partner is wearing protection. That's how we train those techniques. Same with eyegouges. We use ''paint'' method to determine whether our fingers actually came close or not. Our methods are always adapting. As they should.

[Ljenkins9000]

@Anandfulness The other thing is you know without a doubt that MMA guys are a thousand times better at punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, grappling, wrestling, breaking bones, etc. So that leaves you with cheap shots (eye gouges, biting). Why would you expect those things would save you when you don't even have a chance of landing a solid punch to an MMA person's chin?

[Anandfulness]

@Ljenkins9000 Furthermore, your assumption that ''MMA-guys'' are better at blablabla... That's just your imagination. There is no way that an MMA-fighter is better than a traditional martial artist that trains in a realistic manner. There's just no way. The MMA fighter is in a clear disadvantage. He will have to change his entire mindset in order to defend against eyegouges, groinkicks, attacks against the throat, back of the head, biting, etc... He's just not trained for a maniac like that!

[Ljenkins9000]

Let me wade through most of the BS and get to the core of the argument:

"There is no way that an MMA-fighter is better than a traditional martial artist that trains in a realistic manner."

Not true. The fact is that MMA is not a discipline in itself (although it is becoming one now I guess), but a competition rule set where traditional martial artists can compete on equal ground. There are STILL MMA organizations which have no rules at all. And STILL BJJ, Wrestling, MT, Boxing types win there

[vaynah2007]

Musa is a very good street fighter, on the street no one can win

[MarkjeBOSS]

Don't fuck with the Dutch

[alucardseperdalv]

@MarkjeBOSS dutch???? ethnic is romanian

[alucardseperdalv]

that russian is a dick

[razvedrota1]

@alucardseperdalv By nationality he is not Russian. He is Dagestani. They often use dirty tricks, like other people from the Caucasus.

[wtwtwtwtwf]

yes referee should leave him to choke a few more seconds COCK!!!

[mrjohngarland28]

that guys a punk. should've held that guillotine choke longer.

[autohckr]

Well, those were eye gouge "attempts" not actual eye gouges. Ref was also there to slap his hands away. Also a little secret, you gouge the eye from the outside in not inside out. Try it on yourself, you'll see what I mean.

[snakerman2612]

i don't get it

[autohckr]

Ok, let me clarify. If you push your finger into the outer edge of the eye with enough pressure, the finger will push in behind the eyeball. Try it on yourself with just one hand using your thumb on one side and the middle finger on the other and push inward. Feel how the finger is already behind the eye ball? Now push a bit and everything will go black just from slight pressure. Now imagine full pressure. That is the correct way to remove an eye, believe me.

[teamventure08]

oooooo and people say you can eye gouge your way out of a submission. wrong!!

[maxgunn555]

@teamventure08 well you can. this man is a fucking idiot. and how he starts on him after the guillotine. 

[0BHVideos0]

what a cock

[mikasddd]

sucks cant believe he tried to do that -_-

[UberLifeTroll]

@mikasddd It's a fight so everything is fair you fucking pussies.