Jade Empire - Torment The Way Of The Closed Fist (music)

[Coinwalker1]

@postapocalyptia Well, everyone except your character, having hot girl sex with Silk Fox while being the new tyrant-emperor.

[nrvrine427]

@Coinwalker1 That was awesome, especially when Silk Fox was like "I never felt this way about another woman!"

Your character's so badass, that people turn gay for you. Hehe...

[kissmyasssuckers]

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST REMAKE IT?! T_T

[gestaltmadness]

Adore this theme... I am Emperor Sun Li! GOD! ^_^.

[Thunker71]

Epic 0_0

Now, it's time to install Jade Empire !

[ERST105]

Had this song in the background when I phoned my boss telling him to bugger off.

[bhk2006]

A highly underrated game.

[AndyRaslan]

@postapocalyptia Agreed. Jade Empire actually gives you a sense of depth of character. Sort of like KOTOR II, but better.

[kingwoompwoomp]

this song will play whenever america decides to rise against the NWO

[SKORPIQN666]

@postapocalyptia EXACTLY. This is the kinda choice that ALL modern RPGs should give its players, a story that has many paths to many possible endings. Jade Empire was great for SO many reasons but i think most importantly for me was the Chinese mythological theme and the incredible amount of character development.

[Rougamaru]

@postapocalyptia that WAS pretty cool.

george lucas should learn from that.

and hey, it would've been cool to see him raize the magnificent basterds motherland.

oh well, maybe in jade empire two.

[Rougamaru]

@postapocalyptia yeah, but this bioware man!

they live for everloading on dialog!

and I'm the opposite, the open palm was the most fullfilling.

you realize the hero's finally found their place in the world, and made peace with it. he's obtained his own small bit of enlightenment and peace.

[TriniKnight01]

YOU may say that was a cop-out but based on the way the story was presented, that IS a neutral ending. IMO "neutrality" just doesn't fit this particular story.

Neutrality works in D&D but in Jade Empire, nature is tied up with the Celestial Bureaucracy and Order in general. The choices that lead the main character to restore nature and the elements also save the empire and lead to a 'good' ending.

If you decide to ignore people's needs, you're also ignoring the natural order of things.

[Rougamaru]

@TriniKnight01 I only meant he copped out of fighting master li.

it just doesn't make sense for him to do that after all he and his companions have been through.

btw, I really DO agree with your statement.

[SKORPIQN666]

I don't think that BioWare mistook the closed fist philosophy as evil...( "evil" being subjective). The difference between an evil man and a follower of the way of the fist was explained by your trainer at the begining of the game. Reason is the key, it is why the philosophy is so often misinterpreted. Thought behind the action. ie. WHY did you kill this person.... "Evil" in JE was considered mindless. If you kill to achieve, even just a small amount then you are following the path of the fist.

[Rougamaru]

@SKORPIQN666 you have a point, but it would've been nice if there had been a philosophy class in the scholars garden explaining each path a bit better. make it really feel less about good and evil and more about choice and actual philosophy.

[TriniKnight01]

To me, Closed Fist seemed heavily influenced by the Sith ideology from KoToR.

There were some Closed Fist dialogue choices that had no violent outcome, gave fewer Closed Fist alignment points but were still NOT Open Palm. You can recognise them easily - they were the ones that praised self-reliance, or berated people for needing help.

So again, I think there's more to it than simple violence. You don't have to take the most blatantly CF choices when you're playing a CF character.

[Rougamaru]

@TriniKnight01 it still would've been cool if they'de expanded on the less violent aspects of the closed fist. and like I said, yeah, cf=darkside.

[MangaVoltage]

I removed my message because i'm stupid lo. . You can actually follow the cf philosophy in the game if you put though into your choice.

[Risingkiwi]

Reagarding both philosophies, Closed Fist is more chaotic , while Open Palm is more lawful. Both just seem to have a good or evil bent because of how many of its followers tend to apply these in situations.

[TriniKnight01]

"I realised that the makers of Jade-Empire mistook "Closed Fist" for "Evil" and I had no reason to continue at all."

You're saying they got a fictional moral philosophy - one that THEY invented - wrong? Explain this to me.

Especially since the character who explains the moral system to you actually uses an example showing how a Closed Fist person will do the same action as an evil person - except his (or her) reasoning will be different.

[Risingkiwi]

@TriniKnight01 It is that the decisions the PC is put through that a closed fist follower would approve often tend to be more violent than not. A closed fist person for example, could teach others how to achieve the strength so desired by the philosophy.

[Rougamaru]

@TriniKnight01 yes, but it would've been nice if they'd had a good and evil version of both paths, and maybe a middle path, way of the folded paw perhaps? (cause animals are nuetral, the theme of the path would be survival, not enlightenment.) all in all, 4 to 6 paths. spear catches leaf even mentions that there can be "intrigue behind the open palm and honor within the closed fist." instead, we get a lightsided open palm, and a darksided closed fist. they just could've done better is all.

[gamingeagle19]

@Rougamaru you can surrender to Sun Li in the end and get the "neutral" ending if you can really call it that.

[Rougamaru]

@gamingeagle19 that is a cop out, plain and simple.

[gamingeagle19]

@Rougamaru I know, I was just pointing it out.

[Rougamaru]

@gamingeagle19 cool. though the kid in it was cool.

imagine if jade empire two was based on his story and rise to power?

like, spartacus, jade empire style, ya know?

[gamingeagle19]

@Rougamaru now that would be interesting.

[Rougamaru]

@gamingeagle19 yeah, it would be. like, he get's sent to the wall, and starts a rebellion with the slaves and criminals there, and finds some way to overcome the golems and eventually seal way (or steal or free or whatever) the power of the water dragon. maybe the heroes from the first game could come back as ghosts, though zin-bu the magickal abbacus, wild flower and chai-ka & ya zhen, and kang the mad would still be alive, offering divine assistance. (or demonic assistance.)

it could work.

[TeshnosFire]

I liked Jade Empire. But stopped playing during the Forest mission.

I realised that the makers of Jade-Empire mistook "Closed Fist" for "Evil" and I had no reason to continue at all.

Not to mention having to fight 10 spirits immune to all cool styles every 2 damn minutes... It felt more like a grind. I had to act like a heartless evil son of a bitch killing anything in my path in order to get "Closed Fist" points? Yes, FUCK THAT.

Damn Bioware for this one. Such great potential.

[akatsukifanboy102]

great song, and i think the way of the closed fist is a bit eh, more down to earth then the open palm.

[Avessan]

I feel like the way of the closed fist is understood by most people, and for good reason. The game messed it up quite a bit. What could have been a neat philosophy really turned into just good vs. evil.

[sverdmester]

as much as i like bioware, it seems to end up like that more often than not.

they seldom offer a reward for being neutral.

and you have to choose between being some dimwitted saint, or some ridiculously vicious bastard.

(if you should wish to stay neutral, you'd just have to alternate between the two :p )

i felt the same way with kotor. they gave a nice explanation of how the dark side was not "evil" as such.

but you still had to play a malicious and evil character to go there.

[SarahBearX]

Strength is a powerful virtue to have...and to eventually overcome. To only know strength and no other....

I think the passiveness of the Way of the Open Palm is harder to master because you're constantly trying to stay in harmony.

I would like to both learn the Way of the Open Palm and the Closed Fist, because it would be interesting to try to implement both they're strengths and weaknesses into harmony with one another.

[mastablack47]

I live my life by the closed fist, and strength is the ultimate virtue.

[Blisterdude]

Every song in this game is a master piece in its own right, but I'm sorry, nothing gets me as stoked as hearing the main theme itself. It just epitamises the mood of the game as a whole, epic!

[sithlord7m]

Hands down the best song from jade empire. It loses momentum in the end, but the first minute or so is CHOICE

[Risingkiwi]

It allows you to pave your own way through life...over the corpses of other of course....

[SKORPIQN666]

Strength can achieve more than that.

[UndecidedRPGplayer]

Strength is superficial at best. Look where the Way of the Closed Fist/strength got Master Li. A corpse at your hands, his plans having collapsed around him. The Way of the Open Palm ending is canonical, Way of the Closed Fist ending is not.

[Blisterdude]

Technically speaking, while I prefer the Way of Open Palm too, its tricky to define a canonical ending when the game (at the moment) is a solo affair. As it stands, the endings up for grabs still considering the present lack of sequel

[SomeoneYouDunno]

@UndecidedRPGplayer  Master Li was Open Palm. He wanted order. Open Palm does not equal goody goody, although in game mechanics it was forced to do so. He wanted total peace, through whatever means. In case I'm not entirely clear... "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[UndecidedRPGplayer]

@SomeoneYouDunno He wanted power. "I was not content to see my older brother obtain more power." (Perhaps not exactly, but close enough) Master Li wanted power for power's sake. He didn't care who he had to step on to get it. Were it up to him, he would have killed everyone just so he could become emperor. He wanted an eternal empire, with himself at its head. With the power of the Water Dragon, he too could cheat death as his brother had. All he wanted was power, which is Closed Fist.

[UndecidedRPGplayer]

@SomeoneYouDunno Also, the Way of the Open Palm is about being in harmony with your surroundings. Staying within your station. The Way of the Closed Fist is about strength and advancing one's station. Sun Li was the second born, and yet he wanted to kill Sun Hai to become Emperor. And then, he tried to become a God. Twice he tried to advance his station. That is the Way of the Closed Fist.

[SomeoneYouDunno]

@UndecidedRPGplayer Eh? :P I suppose I'm only looking at the ends and not the means. Agree to disagree? Or at least agree we have different viewpoints? :3

[UndecidedRPGplayer]

@SomeoneYouDunno Agreed. There are those who believe he follows the Way of the Open Palm, such as you, while there are others who believe he follows the Way of the Closed Fist like myself.

[SKORPIQN666]

The Way of the Closed Fist.

The Only Way... STRENGTH IS THE ULTIMATE VIRTUE!

[Tankanko2]

If you value nothing else but bloodshed and death, of course.