Ford's 1st Flex Fuel Car: the Model "T" w/ David Blume

[DR1ZERO]

Two words to explain world wide oil dependency: BIG MONEY

[BeAsTm0aD]

Wait, so how would changing the air / fuel intake valve differ from changing the timing of the spark?

[liljgoneman]

Ever been in the pits at an NHRA event? Behind an alcohol dragster when they warm it up? feels like someones rubbing onion in your eyes. Now, lets do the same thing in a traffic jam with ALL the cars burning alcohol..... Still sound like a good idea?

[TwiztedAnimator]

The first Ford's, from what I understand, ran on Hemp Fuel.... The many uses of Hemp!

[MrTpengineer]

Alcohol = engine damage, expensive, and would couse constant backfiring even if the timing is changed. That and being Dirty.

[liljgoneman]

@MrTpengineer I think thats a blanket statement to hide poor tuning abilities.

[MrTpengineer]

@liljgoneman Not really. Have you seen a Alcohol dragster cylinder? See how scorched and deformed it is after a few runs? yea...

[MrTpengineer]

@liljgoneman Also no matter how good the timing is the engine will always run rough because alcohol fires depending on the mixture and usually it's not mixed very well. Aka backfires.

[bandit4423]

@MrTpengineer

are you comparing a drag racing engine to a regular commuting engine? hmm... I think you should have stopped when you were ahead. Which was about 4 posts ago.

[MrTpengineer]

@bandit4423 Normal engines have been ran on alcohol with the same results, only over a period of about a week, that what I was getting at.

[cookieonfire96]

u need a better camera man

[mskydolphin]

Rockefeller gasoline. Nice. So much improvement has been kept from us.

See my faves.

Peace

[rallingsaabs]

One of my favorites from "Alcohol Can Be a Gas", at least as far as this revisonist history goes, pertains to the fact that the Argrol company and others were put out of business by a rumor about the fuel being made from imported molasses. This one made me chuckle. The WW2 era alcohol fuel book, "Food For Thought" (which I don't recall being cited in ACBAG, oddly enough) devotes quite a few pages to Agrol, their operation and their failure and i don't recall "rumors" being cited as a reason.

[rallingsaabs]

I run 2 vehicles almost exclusively on E85 and hydrous ethanol, and am one of ethanol's most ardent supports. It seems a shame that Mr. Blume is not satisfied with the actual history of ethanol to the point where he just makes this stuff up. There WAS an ethanol carb available for the "T" for a short period...it is very rare. On another note the patent for Otto's engine (1877) clearly states that it is a petroleum or coal gas engine, seemingly forgetting it was "designed to run on alcohol."

[sam6262626262]

Did Henry Ford have an alliance with Ferdinand Porsche when he produced the Model T? Being this car has a volkswagon distributor. I thought they had buzz coils??? Signed Confused in Canada

[pipbuster]

Regardless of whether the original Model T was specifically designed to run on alcohol or not, in TODAY's world, the 5th largest country (Brazil) is running their country on "sustainable" alcohol and IMPORTING NO OIL

[ElginPocketwatch]

@pipbuster THATS COOL

[stashorama]

Mr. Blume is misinformed on a number issues.

The Model T Ford was not originally designed to run on alcohol. The Model T Ford manual specifies only gasoline as fuel. Ford Motor Co. did not promote the use of alcohol in Model T Fords.

Manual adjustment of ignition timing (i.e. spark lever) and manual carburetor adjustment (i.e. mixture) was common on most if not all gasoline powered cars of that era and are not unique to Model T Fords nor was the Model T the first car to have such controls.

[darkvader47]

If it specifies only gasoline, then why does it have the adjustments? Henry Ford was in favor of alcohol being the main fuel. Seems to me the only misinformed person would be you.

[stashorama]

Sorry. As a current Model T Ford owner and driver who grew up around antique automobiles ranging from 1900 to 1927, I can assure you that the ability to manipulate the ignition timing via the spark lever and the air/fuel mixture via the carburetor knob are required in order to run a Model T Ford on gasoline. Those controls were not put on Model Ts or other cars for the utilization of alcohol.

Copies of Model T Ford owners manuals are still readily available. Educate yourself and read one.

[brob1969]

Actually at the time of manufacture of the Model T gasoline was only available in metropolitan areas so if you were to fuel up a vehicle in a rural area you would most certainly be buying ethyl alcohol. It was almost requisite that ICEs were able to run on either. Much of Europe at the time was running on alcohol. The Fordson tractor was the largest export in the world in its time and was an alcohol vehicle as the infrastructure to ship crude was not in place for many years.

[stashorama]

The Model T was introduced in October 1908 - U.S. auto production and consumption was already well established. Gasoline was not restricted metropolitan areas at that time. The shipment of crude oil should not be confused with the distribution of refined products (gasoline and kerosene). Fordson tractors were introduced in 1917 with a 21.5 gallon kerosene tank, a kerosene vaporizer and one-quart gasoline tank. Fordsons were started on gasoline and once warmed-up, run on kerosene - not alcohol.

[darkvader47]

Most farms had their own stills and all of their farm equipment ran on alcohol. People could go from farm to farm and fill up on alcohol. Next you'll be telling us that gasoline is better for the automobile than alcohol. We could have been off of foreign oil years ago. Brazil is a great example of not depending on any oil. They import NO OIL.

[stashorama]

Sorry again. Early internal combustion engine farm machinery was typically powered by kerosene. Ex: early tractors had two tanks - they were started on gasoline and once warmed up the operator would turn a valve and switch to kerosene.

Also - most farmers did not waste their time and energy distilling alcohol. Ex: my grandfather (born in 1892) and his father, both farmers in Minnesota, never owned a still or distilled alcohol.

RE Brazil: they still have to put oil in their crankcases.

[brob1969]

Well, not exactly... The first ICE farm machines were compressionless ethyl alcohol or coal gas engines; it wasn't for nearly another 35 years that a kerosene fired compression engine was developed and nearly another 30 years before anything went into production for use in farm equipment. Farmers couldn't produce kerosene on the farm but they could produce ethyl alcohol as many did. Lots of pumps and mills ran on either alcohol or wood or coal gas...

[stashorama]

It's highly doubtful that a farmer would run a compressionless engine on coal gas because farmers typically did not have access to coal gas. Coal gas is a manufactured gas that was distributed via pipeline in urban areas for lighting, heating, cooking and industrial applications, prior to the adoption of natural gas. I suppose a farmer could manufacture his own coal gas via a small gasifier; however, in the late 1800s it would have been more practical to own and operate a steam engine.

[nw8000]

@darkvader47

“It is better to use the resources of your enemies before you use your own.”

Or

“Don’t get high on your own supply”

(Don’t know who said it)

[Hrothulf19]

Well I don't think he actually says that the model T was designed to run on alcohol, its just that it could because of the timing and mixture adjustment equipment.

[ontheearthproduction]

Great video and excellent information.