ROFL SO FUCKING HARD @ 9:42-9:47 was that a smirk of pure ownage?
As soon as this guy finished making the bulk of his second point Sam made like Bobby Fischer: looked at him... and truly considered offering him a draw...
...before verbally and intellectually ripping his fucking throat out.
Reza is tearing this bigot, SAM, to shreds and shows how shallow and inaccurate his arguments are. He is basing his statement on an invalidated survey: How many people were surveyed? what were the exact questions? How neutral the survey was? Was it done by Fox news! But, for the sake of arguments, if we are to accept the result “survey”. He is making outlandish statements about 1.5 Billion people based on a survey of few hundreds or thousands of them!!! This is the best he can do, this sad.
“The worst lies are the lies we tell ourselves. We live in denial of what we do, even what we think. We do this because we're afraid. We fear we will not find love, and when we find it we fear we'll lose it. We fear that if we do not have love we will be unhappy.” lemonjelly Richard Bach
Also, I don't just travel through the Muslim world I LIVE in the HEART of the Muslim world, I study the Muslim world, etc... so according to Reza that makes me an expert and fit to comment. I agree 99% with Sam Harris.
I like Reza well enough, but... blah.. as soon as he opened his mouth in this video he starts going off on that incredibly boring, cliche, STUPID argument about how certain people are just not qualified to talk about religion because they aren't "experts" on it. Horrible argument..
Reza Aslan is simply stating that we are mistaken and if we learn some details and nuances about Islam we all see the light. I don't care how much trimming and decor Reza Aslan will dress Islam in, its a religion with powerful dogmas and taboos and as such is prone to going banana crazy.
he lies from 8:55 onward. the bible has been through the enlightenment, the age of reason, the scientific revolution. the koran has not. this is why no country in the world enforces old testament law. plenty of countries enforce the laws of the koran.
islam is a political ideology, has been since day 1 and it's whole calendar, no other faith is this way. many muslims, like reza, cannot understand this.
@fandanstan Well, you just exemplified the factual and historical ignorance typically seen in these types of discussions. The track record of Islam goes back over seven centuries, so look it up. The problem is that they don't have anymore intellectuals, knowledge, or books to destroy in their own countries, so they're broadening their horizons at present.
Just watch that Aslans' mannerisms while Harris is speaking. Such a deceiving douch-bag! You can see exactly how he's strategizing the next slight of hand where he can maneuver the topic down another left hand turn. Oh, but Islam is such a rich heritage. And those western Jesus types are so bad! Never addresses any topical points directly.
Sam is very good at staying calm and presenting his opinion without personal attacks. Very few people are capable of this. I am very impressed with Sam.
@chairde Yes, you're 100% right! And I think Reza is a putrefied, stinking sophist who confidently puts in propaganda-driven lies to help the ISLAMIC agenda. Reza has expertise on only one thing and that's "taqiyya"(deception of infidels sanctioned by qur'an)
Sam is right there is a rather uncanny, reflexive political solidarity (or is it a part of their communalism) among Muslims..majority of Muslims will always side with other muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior is.
Terrorism is totally political. No religion can be blamed for it. Those "terrorists" are only terrorists because of being occupied and oppressed for so long.
Some don't like Islam which is ok but we all must accept that there are 1.6 billion of them. That's 1 in 5 people. It's not going anywhere and we need to learn to live with it.
@TurboFuss1 In the same vein though, there's four of us (non-islamists) to one of them. So, why should the rest of the world accept something like Islam. There are obvious problems with Islam and no one should accept the things in the religion that run counter to normal peaceful society.
@frostmagemarii "no one should accept the things in the religion that run counter to normal peaceful society". What about our own country? There is immorality everywhere. We have drug use and sex like it's nothing. And there are heinous crimes against humanity carried out MOSTLY outside the Islamic world. For example The DRC in Africa, or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Stalin or Mao ZeDong, etc. What about the 50,000 people killed in the Mexico war right now?
I'm glad that Reza FINALLY brings up in part 2 the elephant in the room. Although not forcefully enough. Poverty definitely contributes but US foreign policy contributes vastly more. As US Empire encroaches on others (not just Muslims as the ignorant believe ie Latin America, Asia, Africa, etc), it forces people in a corner. People resort to violence when no other recourse is offered. Actually, they are DENIED. Stop committing terrorism & people will not want to commit it against you Uncle Sam.
@JoebooSauce That's right. Nobody has any human agency in the world except for the US. It;s all pretty much our fault. We're the only ones committing evil in the world. It never happens, for example, because some illiterate Mullah promises young desperate men 72 virgins if they go blow up themselves in the vicinity of infidels. And the leaders of Muslim nations aren't responsible for anyone's poverty: it's our fault for having even one meeting with those bad guys.
No, not all Americans are bad. You are though. The ones that do not know their OWN history are a disease. IGNORANCE is what we call it. And yet, your kind has the gall to claim to know what is right for the world. 60+ illegal interventions since WWII to overthrow elected leaders, torture, and murder just for access to mineral resources. (Google William Blum Killing Hope and READ.) Don't know all this? SHAME ON YOU! You lazy waste and burden. YOU make Americans look bad!!!
@JoebooSauce We've done a lot of bad in the world. So?
So we were supposed to throw the whole world to the Soviet Union? Cuz that really was just about the only other alternative in that (sad, bad, mad) bi-polar world. Or, following the break-up of the S.U., should we perhaps have intervened in Rwanda during the genocide of Tutsis, rather than piously not wanting to get our hands dirty? What about the former Yugoslovia? You tell me what is the optimum, principled position.
Although I agree with pretty much everything else Harris says about religion (i.e. dogmatism immune to criticism is a HUGE problem), i don't think "Islamic" terrorism is bourne out of religious dogma; but out of political problems. Islamic-clothed violence is a byproduct, and the solidarity of Muslims around the world just makes it harder for others to exploit them. If you attack an innocent Muslim; you are essentially attacking all Muslims in the world, in Muslim eyes.
"It takes some ideas to get someone who ... has not been molested by occupying powers, and get him to hijack a plane and hit the wall"
Harris doesnt realize that EVERYONE in an occupied place feels anger, whether they are directly abused or not, since your country and your fellows are being hurt. It's akin to Reza killing your mom, you punching him in response, and Harris claiming that it must've been religious doctrine that inspired your violence since you yourself were not directly attacked.
Anytime a Human genius like Sam Harris spends His time with one of these subhuman degenerates He lends credibility to it. Why must He allow this religious vermin to bask in His glow of extreme intellect, logic and Humanity. Its sad that a nobody like that desert rat can be allowed to be that close to Mr. Harris. Disgusting
Aslan is an apologist and is welcome Iran because of it. His book No god but God is a perfect example of whitewashing the violent and unsupportable aspects of Islam. The book has very little academic documentation,,,the first sign of poor scholarship.
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Sam Harris believes everything he says with as much dogmatism as a man of religion believes in his own dogma. He loses by default by his inherent inability to admit this.
Being absolutely certain of something does not make you loose by default. I am absolutely certain that 2+2=4 and no amount of debating is going to change that. Does that mean that I automatically loose any debate about the subject of addition?
Sam Harris supports his views through poll numbers and examples. He has the right to be certain about the things he discovered by analyzing the subject at hand.
No matter how you want to frame your opinion, faith will never trump reason, ever; furthermore, I fail to see how exposing the ignorance and intrinsic insanity of religion is dogmatism.
Sometimes I wish I hadn't discovered YouTube. The lunacy in the world baffles me. This is 2011 ! Nobody can still believe in God. I reckon they are all just making it up to get on TV.
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
If human free-will and self-awareness as an individual is mere illusion leaving leading to biochemical determinism and thus no individual culpability in choice of actions how is anything evil or wrong?
If there's no such thing as objective morality, just human preference to well being but a child molester has differing ideas about well being than his victims, how is that a "moral landscape" and not just a mere "preference landscape"? Harris has very low philosophical understandings.
@WILLTHEWGMAN the value of evil or wrong isnt absolute, FACT, it had change trought secular discusion and law, and common sence, how can you assume that it was put there by god, that is idiotic, you are the one with bad philosophy going down to deep, as it as a mere fonctional and practical every day fonction,
surviving, helping each other making a better world, whatever you wanna called it wake up,
The bible cherry picking of good is over, did the bible give the right to vote to women?
I don't assume that objective morals "was put there by god". I state that God Himself is pure goodness and love in His very being and absent any evil.
Question;
Is throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time?
If all things are merely subjectively wrong this "subjectivity" itself is the root cause of what we call evil and think of as good! What is "humanity" but a fairytale if our own sense of morality can never be objective?
@WILLTHEWGMAN funny how you made my point, bushman and other tribes who never heard of god share the same moral, values, from our genetic inheritance,
it come from gene,
as for your good quote from the bible, its all mere copy of oriental philosophy that were around at the time, bhudism,, forget that jesus did travel a bit ,
also, even common sence tell you that once again you cherry pick, choose to ignore the part that says to stone women to death evreething come from secular
Of course, humanity ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil and mankind is made in God's image to understand morality, what's so funny about this? If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective. There was no other philosophy before or after Jesus that states to "love your enemy" or when struck to "turn the other cheek" nor any secular law or obligation to do so in ancient and modern times. This is a solely Christian idea by Jesus.
as for jesus, he is mention in tibet sacred book, do you really think he dissaper beetween 16 and 33? nothing new about the love message, many were saying exactly that in orient,
study a bit outside christianism,
people rape kill lie so when you say
- If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective you kind of make my point there ,the god image thing, bad one,
did god just made them and have them instinc 50 000 thosand years ago, you make no sence and so are you argument base on your beleive wich i dont debate,
if you cant argue logicly without your own personal faith stuff get lost
It is not human instinct to save an enemy from drowning by any means of the word or evolutionary trait. You have a cartoon understanding of Christian doctrine and science.
You never answered these questions:
Do humans have free will? If yes, from where & what is this free-will agent being derived outside of mere biochemical illusion?
Is throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time? If not, how can you say anything is evil?
@WILLTHEWGMAN ill be the big man and answer your question you dont even assess mine, Biological evolution explain altruism, empathy, saving, first start studying far from THE FUCKING BIBLE, we see exemple of that in animal, (havent you seen the famous dog save dog on higway on youtube) againts anthropocentrism, you think human are special, got the monopole on evrething it isnt so,the babie question have answer try following, the fact that it is wrong evrywhere show how bullshit religion is,
If morality is mere instinct and/or traits of evolution this means it is Not objective, in another world evolution could have produced anything. Then there's no evolutionary argument that when there is a over-population problem that throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun is wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time in your world-view. Well, my world-view gives truth to the notion of humanity as more than just unguided evolutionary illusory. Do you have free-will?
@WILLTHEWGMAN did you see the fucking dog go and save the other dog putting himself at risk? you need to study the animal kingdom a bit more objective do not mean from outside, trowing baby in fire will never been tolorated as long as common sence is out there , your argument makjes no sence,
your a primate with adrenal gland to big and a too small frontal lobe
I am not sure what is worse, your grammar, spelling or vulgar language but I get this a lot from people on your side of the fence. You state that somehow "common sence (sense)" makes some morals objective but then you state that there are no objective morals. Are there or aren't there and how do you derive objectiveness from common sense, the majorities' senses makes truths in ought and ought-nots? I really believe at this point I am casting peals before swine with my questions...
Of course, humanity ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil and mankind is made in God's image to understand morality, what's so funny about this? If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective. There was no other philosophy before or after Jesus that states to "love your enemy" or when struck to "turn the other cheek" nor any secular law or obligation to do so in ancient and modern times. This is a solely Christian idea by Jesus.
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. => All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
@WILLTHEWGMAN you assume there is something else therefore a preferece landscape,
but atheist agnostic, whatever people of reason i prefer to called them, dont accept this, there is nothing else that what we human do, so whatever we decide as a whole, at a certain time, is the moral landscape,
its not rocket science really you seem to not gasp the concept,if you think you need to measure it over something it is your problem, take a book written 2000 years ago if you wish,
i will prefer to go with more modern one, after all, stoning women to death, and having slave isnt really my thing,
so i will use the standard we have devloppe in this century as it seem to be more peacfull when you take the secular and democratic one, but this is just me and the people of the civilize world,
there is a bunch of people that use the old one from books, in the middle east they are really well organised maybe you should join them??
"He without sin cast the first stone", "thou shall not covet thy neighbor", "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemy" are far from a modern concepts but a foundation principles in Christianity. No of which are "secular and democratic ones".
Do you believe there are moral objective right and wrongs as in oughts and ought-nots? Do you believe you have freewill, if so, from what and where is your free-will agent being derived from if it is not outside of mere biochemical illusory?
Isalm needs to be disemboweled! It's a pathetic cult everyone needs to shun. The Arab countries cause the most problems of our time. Allah should be burned. To he'll with the muslims.
Sam is brilliant & always has great things to offer. Still, Reza's point is most salient & makes me wonder, would Christianity behave differently in a world where Islamic nations were "super powers?" Maybe, maybe not (& maybe Islamic nations wouldn't be bastions of what is western-like tolerance)... But, the fact is that, religious behavior is a product of social context...
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
It sounds as if you were taught some extremely defective principals of hemanuetics when it comes to studying the Bible. To talk of fictional Holy Books while conflating the Bible w/the Quran, Book of Mormon, etc is clearly nonsensical& contrived itself; they all make vastly dis-similar truth claims regarding meaning & purpose (which is evident in reading them). If you are so concerned w/the pragmatism of the BIble, try reading & following the man-made laws of most county/state statutory codes.
Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian nation' is an excellent book. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens
All war and violence is wrong, but Harris is seriously ignorant of his own nation's violent attacks on other nations throughout the world. Arabs suicide bombing in no way compares to the slaughter waged by the U.S. on foreign lands. I'm not excusing Arab suicide bombing, but for Harris to point to it as the central contradiction is totally naive on his part.
@bakari45 Kind of a dumb argument. I understand where you are coming from but you will never see an American, lets say Christian vs Muslim is the debate, turn themselves into a bomb or directly attack civilians. Do civilians die in U.S. attacks? Yea. The price of war. When the soldiers or rebels hide amongst the people, that is going to happen. The difference is that we do not seek to kill the innocent. Jihadists WANT to kill the innocent (infidel).
And yes, America can inflict more damage but we have the means. We use those means as cautiously as we can but ware is not perfect. If the Muslim world had our munitions, they would not be so selective in their targets. I'm an atheist. I think all sides are childish but it's an insult to me to have the U.S. painted in the same light, or worse, than these jihadists.
Respond to this video... America's problem is choosing illegal wars and having a double standard in supporting liberation movements in Arab countries. I don't like the message the Arab world gets sent when we can support the Egyptian, Libyan, Syrian, and Tunisian liberation movements but Bahrain gets a pass because of our oil dependency with Saudi Arabia. Can't be the light of the world if we can selectively apply the shades
Sadly, people often use religion ( pick one) to justify murder and plunder. Columbus's journey to Hispalona was blessed by a priest ( who later redeemed himself). Then went on to commit genocide on the Taino.
When 77% of people in Lebanon say suicide bombing is justified you need to realize their next door neighbor is a brutal military behemoth using outlawed cluster munitions, heavily mining inhabited areas and enforcing a brutal economic stranglehold and apartheid on humans it considers beneath itself...namely Israel.
Suicide bombing is used most extensively in Sri Lanka smh people need to get facts straight.
@Azamspazam91 77% of people in Lenanon said it was justified towards NON-combatants. I don't know about you, but I think that's just morally revolting.
@Drgamedood As if Israel doesnt do the same to them! In your reply, I dare you to include the # of innocent NON-combatant Lebanese lives taken in 2006, then claim that Israel has moral highground
Al-Qaeda on the other hand is indoctrinated with a perverted, ignorant theology in which all people who are the slightest bit different are considered subhuman. The polls in pakistan, afghanistan and iraq (in which innocent people are killed indiscriminately) will show different results than Lebanon.
@Azamspazam91 I never claimed that Israel had the moral ground. I was just correcting your mistake. You can look up the polls. The questions asked were specifically about killing in defense of Islam, not against aggressors. The level of support was, as Sam says, shocking.
@Drgamedood And my point is Lebanon is a poor example of this "polling" because their "defense of Islam" is actually the defense of their sovereign soil and beloved children.
What is shocking is that people confuse the Islam that Reza Aslan, Mustafa Akyol and Tariq Ramadhan allude to as universal egalitarianism and the perverted theology exported by Saudi Arabian wahabi/salafi bigots. Show me the "polls" for support of non combatant killing in iraq afghanistan and pakistan.
@Azamspazam91 lol Uh, no. The question was in defense of Islam. The religion. Not their home or their family. Look up the polls for yourself. I'm not going to do your homework for you.
@Azamspazam91 So that justifies the support for aggression against NON-combatants. Wow, great logic.
"Oh hey, my next door neighbor has a gun and is trying to kill me. But rather than just defend myself against him, I think I'll go and kill his children as well."
@Drgamedood No its more like "Oh hey, my next door neighbor has a gun and is trying to kill me [AND MY CHILDREN. SO I WLL] just defend myself against him, I think I'll go and kill his children as well."
Now tell me if this is what Muslims did before western imperial colonialism + rise of wahhabism.
@Drgamedood Dude -_- the people Lebanon consider non combatants and the people alqeada considers non combatants ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
Reza Aslan is trying to answer Sam Harris about a poll loaded with ignorance. It sheds no light. Do you really think 77% of people in Lebanon would go to Iraq or China or Russia for that matter and blow people up?! NO! USE THAT NOGGIN!
@Azamspazam91 And you know this how? Why should I trust your claim that Lebanon's defintion of a non-combatant is different from the dictionary definition of a non-combatant?
The term "Non-combatant" was clearly stated. Get over it.
The American public was perfectly fine with the killing of 100,000+ "non combatants" in the Iraq war. The war in Afghanistan kills non combatants daily. You don't see Americans standing in solidarity saying this is atrocious or shocking. If we killed the same "non combatants" in France or Norway I'm pretty sure the American response would be different don't you think?
At least up till today, not all "non combatants" were created equal. change it.
@Azamspazam91 So let's review. We have a poll saying that over 70% of Lebanese think the murder of Non-combatants is jutified in defense of Islam. You're only excuses are that non-combatant doesn't really mean non-combatant, or that killing innocent people is somehow "ok". I'm done with you. At this point, we're just arguing semantics. Good day.
@Drgamedood Bro you started the argument about semantics.
Obviously I don't think its right killing any non combatants. The Lebanese people beg to differ since they've been invaded and had their families slaughtered over and over by America and Israel (and this is no stretch, look up wars in Lebanon)
Now if you went to them asking them if it was justified to murder "non combatants" in Russia or China they'd look at you funny and say "No habibi come have some coffee" in a thick Arab accent.
@papelhojas Not really sure what you are trying to say. What I was getting at is that Reza, rather than providing any justification for his claims, simply states that he is an expert on the Middle East and that therefore his position has more validity. This is called an argument from or an appeal to authority which is a common fallacious argument employed by theists.
its great to see the truth come out in the world and watch the lies of religion start to die off.like a self destructive human who lives by lies and fraud,they will destoy themselves in time and so religion is doing the same thing in our time.
So reza's argument here is that it is not ISlam but culture and social environment...well how do u explain how the muslim communities behave in the west??
and besides isn't religion just a manifestation of culture?
@cimsid101 So then I assume you find nothing wrong with Israel indiscriminately bombing Muslim CIVILIANS, since Muslims do it to them as well right?
You also miss the distinction between intentionally targeting noncombatants - i.e. blowing yourself up in a dinner party or restaurant - and unintended civilian casualties - i.e. blowing up a car with Hamas militants and killing several bystanders.
If Muslim suicide bombers were only targeting troops it would be a different issue.
@robocong7420 thats not only false, but deeply offending to the people of palestine.. im not religious.. i just see it how it is... israel bombs crouded areas of innoccent people, bombs schools, hospitals ect ect
religion aside.. what israel is doing to palestine is horrific and must stop
yes i've seen this wierd psychosis before where so-called atheists side with maniac muslims against a westernized liberal democracy. i dont know if it's drugs, or brain damage, or if the euro culture has simply produced effeminate pussies with no fight in them. personally, if i were israel, i'd have a terrorism contest with the palestinians. and i wouldnt give two fucks if they put their rockets in a bunker, or in a hospital. this is war dumb ass
@robocong7420 "israel doesnt indiscriminately bomb anything" hahaha yeah, keep the worthless empty insults comming einstein. you obviously know NOTHING about whats going on over there. the palestinians are being treated like rats, if not worse.
im not going to waste my time with clueless twats like u... american by any chance?
i dont understand why muslims or chritians engage in these debates and i dont understand why they allow themselves to be cornered by people like sam harris who demand that people faith account for the insanity of members of that faith, i dont know what possessed bin laden and his band of loonies to commit those crimes but it certianly wasnt my God, live and let live
I guess the problem is that the books (hadith mostly and to some extent the quran) do infact demand the killing of infidels, stoning of gays and misogyny. I'm happy to hear that you are one who doesn't take these texts seriously but I can't see how you can argue against extremism from a religious stand point. You would have to do it from a humanist point of view which you express by saying "live and let live".
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secularist social perspective
Reza is awesome. Sam is awesome. Reza shows patience while Sam is making his points and doesn't interrupt. I still side with Harris's reasoning here, but as far as Reza's arguments go I think they are pretty solid.
I like Harris, he's a cool, clear thinker. I hate that he wastes so much time debating morons though. He generally only does it when he's promoting a book, but it just seems like an epic waste of his time/abilities.
His opponents turn up with the same old arguments worded differently, and with no facts or evidence (obviously) and each and every time they walk away with their faith/gullibility intact, clinging to religion and enabling the negative aspects of that religion by doing so.
I've read both Reza Aslans "How to win a cosmic war" and Sam's "End of faith" and the only logical inference ii can make about religon is simply, why bother?
@idris090 Shia vs Sunni? Really? That's the same tired tribalism that has divided people since pre-history. Islam is stuck in the middle ages and the rest of the world is paying the price.
@TAz69x That's cute, but if Islam had never been civilized, they wouldn't have invented algebra, nor would they have preserved the writings of ancient Greece (in Al-Andalus) during the Dark Ages when the Christians were busy burning all pre-Christian/non-Biblical literature. That's not to mention the great architectural works and music and poetry. That's not to say the whole Islamic proposition isn't fµcking crazy (it is), just that there have been few pretty good things along with the horrible.
@ChollieD you assume that mathematic devloppement , and historical record keeping is linked to the beleif of a entire population wich isnt, some individual gifted devlopped algebra and it would probably happend if they were indhu chinesse or any civilisation, some of the biggest step upward in science have been made by single individual of different faith,
i agree that the whole islamic population isnt bad, but the problem isnt islam its ALL RELIGION, claiming you have the truth when you dont
It seems to me that the longer a religion is in existence the closer it gets to resembling a secular ideology. I've seen Sam debate a Rabbi who admits that religions are man-made! Anyone think the average Muslim would agree with that statement? It's a maturation process. Perhaps they will mature to the point where they are INDISTINGUISHABLE from secularism and we can all stop pretending and dispense with the lot of them. Unreasonably optimistic, I know, but...
apperantly he does not know much about it if those polls are indeed correct. Sam isnt just some ignorant fool, hes got facts. anyway, is it true that islam will only be a religion of peace when everybody submits to shariah law? isnt that what it really is? the peace comes after the domination cause I do not know
@preemptivestrike20 are u just stating that specifically because... hes Muslim or because he contrasts against your own preferences or beliefs (whatever they maybe)
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secular social perspectives
Reza Aslan may be correct in saying he is an expert on Islam and Sam Harris is not, but we are seldom experts in identifying our own disfunction, an outsider can usually see that before we do. We all have our own internal road maps as M. Scott Peck says, and if we don't expose our road map to other map makers (outsiders) we often don't see the flaws of our own thinking. Reza needs to listen to the criticisms of an outsider.
@thelionheart1001 Your absolutely retarded. What he said was that out of all the muslims in Lebanon wich constitute about 65-70 % of the country. 77% of THEM(the Muslim population) where in favor of suicing bombing]. I can't believe i actually had to explain that.
@moh490234890238490 first, thanks for the insults. He did say 77% of people in Lebanon, and he meant that. The guy has no clue about the nations he is talking about. Lebanon is way too complex demographically to run American standard polls in. btw you didn't have to explain it :P
Sam Harris is a complete opportunist and charlatan. He has come to prominence by joining in the scapegoating of Muslims, and supporting the phony "war on terror". He has tried to co-opt the banner of atheism, science and progress, for predatory wars waged by the most powerful military nation in the world, against impoverished and historically oppressed nations. He should explain how the invasion of Iraq, the seizure of its oil, and the murder of a million innocent civilians aid human progress.
ROFL SO FUCKING HARD @ 9:42-9:47 was that a smirk of pure ownage?
As soon as this guy finished making the bulk of his second point Sam made like Bobby Fischer: looked at him... and truly considered offering him a draw...
...before verbally and intellectually ripping his fucking throat out.
skdjhfkdhfa 4 days ago
All religions are false.
jezmundberserker 5 days ago
All religions are false.
jezmundberserker 5 days ago
Reza is tearing this bigot, SAM, to shreds and shows how shallow and inaccurate his arguments are. He is basing his statement on an invalidated survey: How many people were surveyed? what were the exact questions? How neutral the survey was? Was it done by Fox news! But, for the sake of arguments, if we are to accept the result “survey”. He is making outlandish statements about 1.5 Billion people based on a survey of few hundreds or thousands of them!!! This is the best he can do, this sad.
arraba99 2 weeks ago
@arraba99 calm down....no need to get all emotional
cygnusx555 1 week ago
@arraba99 Harris is a piece of shit. Is an ignorant stupid pseudo-scientist. The bigot thinks he's an expert on Islam based off fox news.
YouTodayKing 1 week ago
“The worst lies are the lies we tell ourselves. We live in denial of what we do, even what we think. We do this because we're afraid. We fear we will not find love, and when we find it we fear we'll lose it. We fear that if we do not have love we will be unhappy.” lemonjelly Richard Bach
Nietzschean1000 2 weeks ago
Also, I don't just travel through the Muslim world I LIVE in the HEART of the Muslim world, I study the Muslim world, etc... so according to Reza that makes me an expert and fit to comment. I agree 99% with Sam Harris.
kalbahamut 2 weeks ago
I like Reza well enough, but... blah.. as soon as he opened his mouth in this video he starts going off on that incredibly boring, cliche, STUPID argument about how certain people are just not qualified to talk about religion because they aren't "experts" on it. Horrible argument..
kalbahamut 2 weeks ago
Reza Aslan is simply stating that we are mistaken and if we learn some details and nuances about Islam we all see the light. I don't care how much trimming and decor Reza Aslan will dress Islam in, its a religion with powerful dogmas and taboos and as such is prone to going banana crazy.
Mishkafofer 3 weeks ago
Reza..strings words together that make no sense. He is what we call an "articulate incompetent"
AnnaMishel 1 month ago
reza aslan is a professional liar.
he lies from 8:55 onward. the bible has been through the enlightenment, the age of reason, the scientific revolution. the koran has not. this is why no country in the world enforces old testament law. plenty of countries enforce the laws of the koran.
islam is a political ideology, has been since day 1 and it's whole calendar, no other faith is this way. many muslims, like reza, cannot understand this.
karlsmith00 1 month ago
@fandanstan Well, you just exemplified the factual and historical ignorance typically seen in these types of discussions. The track record of Islam goes back over seven centuries, so look it up. The problem is that they don't have anymore intellectuals, knowledge, or books to destroy in their own countries, so they're broadening their horizons at present.
BER2ERKER 1 month ago 2
I'm sorry his last name is Aslan, because I really like that lion character in the story book.
audiotrax2000 1 month ago
Just watch that Aslans' mannerisms while Harris is speaking. Such a deceiving douch-bag! You can see exactly how he's strategizing the next slight of hand where he can maneuver the topic down another left hand turn. Oh, but Islam is such a rich heritage. And those western Jesus types are so bad! Never addresses any topical points directly.
audiotrax2000 1 month ago
Yeah America, the peaceful society. That's a laugh. Proud to be Canadian.
kittykatBflat 1 month ago 5
There's never a reason to be proud of being a canadian
DCAce00 1 month ago
Reza sounds just as annoying as Dinesh.
JDP1699 1 month ago
Sam is very good at staying calm and presenting his opinion without personal attacks. Very few people are capable of this. I am very impressed with Sam.
chairde 1 month ago 12
@chairde Yes, you're 100% right! And I think Reza is a putrefied, stinking sophist who confidently puts in propaganda-driven lies to help the ISLAMIC agenda. Reza has expertise on only one thing and that's "taqiyya"(deception of infidels sanctioned by qur'an)
Sam is right there is a rather uncanny, reflexive political solidarity (or is it a part of their communalism) among Muslims..majority of Muslims will always side with other muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior is.
Death2Hatred 3 weeks ago
Who is Reza trying to kid? Think terrorist, the first thing that pops to mind is Muslim.
Klash92 1 month ago
@Klash92 I think IRA
kittykatBflat 1 month ago
@kittykatBflat Sure the IRA are terrible. But which terrorist groups are more active on a world wide scale in the past 10 years? Muslim or catholic?
Klash92 1 month ago
@Klash92 Islamic
kittykatBflat 1 month ago
@kittykatBflat Precisely.
Klash92 1 month ago
Reza Aslan loves the word "profound." When he uses the word too many times in a small span, he temporarily switches to the word "vast."
Watch the follow-up videos for more "profoundness."
LogicalPhallusy 1 month ago
Terrorism is totally political. No religion can be blamed for it. Those "terrorists" are only terrorists because of being occupied and oppressed for so long.
To blame religion is absurd and idiotic.
fandanstan 1 month ago
Some don't like Islam which is ok but we all must accept that there are 1.6 billion of them. That's 1 in 5 people. It's not going anywhere and we need to learn to live with it.
TurboFuss1 1 month ago
@TurboFuss1 In the same vein though, there's four of us (non-islamists) to one of them. So, why should the rest of the world accept something like Islam. There are obvious problems with Islam and no one should accept the things in the religion that run counter to normal peaceful society.
frostmagemarii 1 month ago
@frostmagemarii "no one should accept the things in the religion that run counter to normal peaceful society". What about our own country? There is immorality everywhere. We have drug use and sex like it's nothing. And there are heinous crimes against humanity carried out MOSTLY outside the Islamic world. For example The DRC in Africa, or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Stalin or Mao ZeDong, etc. What about the 50,000 people killed in the Mexico war right now?
TurboFuss1 1 month ago
@frostmagemarii Peaceful society?! ROFL America's a fucked up country, bro.
fandanstan 1 month ago
I'm glad that Reza FINALLY brings up in part 2 the elephant in the room. Although not forcefully enough. Poverty definitely contributes but US foreign policy contributes vastly more. As US Empire encroaches on others (not just Muslims as the ignorant believe ie Latin America, Asia, Africa, etc), it forces people in a corner. People resort to violence when no other recourse is offered. Actually, they are DENIED. Stop committing terrorism & people will not want to commit it against you Uncle Sam.
JoebooSauce 2 months ago
@JoebooSauce That's right. Nobody has any human agency in the world except for the US. It;s all pretty much our fault. We're the only ones committing evil in the world. It never happens, for example, because some illiterate Mullah promises young desperate men 72 virgins if they go blow up themselves in the vicinity of infidels. And the leaders of Muslim nations aren't responsible for anyone's poverty: it's our fault for having even one meeting with those bad guys.
Oh, we're so bad! (Flogs self)
ChollieD 2 months ago
@ChollieD
No, not all Americans are bad. You are though. The ones that do not know their OWN history are a disease. IGNORANCE is what we call it. And yet, your kind has the gall to claim to know what is right for the world. 60+ illegal interventions since WWII to overthrow elected leaders, torture, and murder just for access to mineral resources. (Google William Blum Killing Hope and READ.) Don't know all this? SHAME ON YOU! You lazy waste and burden. YOU make Americans look bad!!!
JoebooSauce 2 months ago
@JoebooSauce We've done a lot of bad in the world. So?
So we were supposed to throw the whole world to the Soviet Union? Cuz that really was just about the only other alternative in that (sad, bad, mad) bi-polar world. Or, following the break-up of the S.U., should we perhaps have intervened in Rwanda during the genocide of Tutsis, rather than piously not wanting to get our hands dirty? What about the former Yugoslovia? You tell me what is the optimum, principled position.
ChollieD 2 months ago
Thank you for posting this. I appreciate it. It is a shame, however, that the full debate is not online (archived or otherwise).
elliotlee13 2 months ago
Although I agree with pretty much everything else Harris says about religion (i.e. dogmatism immune to criticism is a HUGE problem), i don't think "Islamic" terrorism is bourne out of religious dogma; but out of political problems. Islamic-clothed violence is a byproduct, and the solidarity of Muslims around the world just makes it harder for others to exploit them. If you attack an innocent Muslim; you are essentially attacking all Muslims in the world, in Muslim eyes.
OaklandMann 2 months ago
"It takes some ideas to get someone who ... has not been molested by occupying powers, and get him to hijack a plane and hit the wall"
Harris doesnt realize that EVERYONE in an occupied place feels anger, whether they are directly abused or not, since your country and your fellows are being hurt. It's akin to Reza killing your mom, you punching him in response, and Harris claiming that it must've been religious doctrine that inspired your violence since you yourself were not directly attacked.
OaklandMann 2 months ago
Anytime a Human genius like Sam Harris spends His time with one of these subhuman degenerates He lends credibility to it. Why must He allow this religious vermin to bask in His glow of extreme intellect, logic and Humanity. Its sad that a nobody like that desert rat can be allowed to be that close to Mr. Harris. Disgusting
699backstab 2 months ago
Muslim living in the west enjoying all its luxuries defends fascist iron age sandboxfairytale
One would think the hypocrisy would ring a few bells.
sonykroket 2 months ago 2
Aslan is an apologist and is welcome Iran because of it. His book No god but God is a perfect example of whitewashing the violent and unsupportable aspects of Islam. The book has very little academic documentation,,,the first sign of poor scholarship.
greenarcher180 3 months ago 2
I worked in Saudi Arabia for three years as a university lecturer. Reza is sanitising Islam: Sam is being more honest and accurate.
The more you read, hear, learn and study RE: Islam, the more shocked I was...
suren1946 3 months ago 20
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sam Harris believes everything he says with as much dogmatism as a man of religion believes in his own dogma. He loses by default by his inherent inability to admit this.
cbmjm1 3 months ago
@cbmjm1 No. Listen to me: NO.
Being absolutely certain of something does not make you loose by default. I am absolutely certain that 2+2=4 and no amount of debating is going to change that. Does that mean that I automatically loose any debate about the subject of addition?
Sam Harris supports his views through poll numbers and examples. He has the right to be certain about the things he discovered by analyzing the subject at hand.
PeterK1984 3 months ago
@cbmjm1
No matter how you want to frame your opinion, faith will never trump reason, ever; furthermore, I fail to see how exposing the ignorance and intrinsic insanity of religion is dogmatism.
adm491 3 months ago
@cbmjm1 Except that Sam doesn't believe dogmatically. He can be persuaded by evidence and by reason. He can change his opinion.
Can the same be said of the religious Muslims?
sexyloser 3 months ago
Sometimes I wish I hadn't discovered YouTube. The lunacy in the world baffles me. This is 2011 ! Nobody can still believe in God. I reckon they are all just making it up to get on TV.
lazycackle 4 months ago
alsefhl suhd
ChollieD 4 months ago
Rizla Asslan is a silly muppet
sonykroket 4 months ago
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sonykroket 4 months ago
look at gaza and lebanon...they elected hamas and hezbola ( terrorist organizations) in free elections.
most muslims believe in fundamentalism, if they say otherwise, they are flat lying
gotherealex 4 months ago
Harris is very persuasive.
energylots 4 months ago
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
IslamISsick1 4 months ago
Questions;
If human free-will and self-awareness as an individual is mere illusion leaving leading to biochemical determinism and thus no individual culpability in choice of actions how is anything evil or wrong?
If there's no such thing as objective morality, just human preference to well being but a child molester has differing ideas about well being than his victims, how is that a "moral landscape" and not just a mere "preference landscape"? Harris has very low philosophical understandings.
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN the value of evil or wrong isnt absolute, FACT, it had change trought secular discusion and law, and common sence, how can you assume that it was put there by god, that is idiotic, you are the one with bad philosophy going down to deep, as it as a mere fonctional and practical every day fonction,
surviving, helping each other making a better world, whatever you wanna called it wake up,
The bible cherry picking of good is over, did the bible give the right to vote to women?
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
I don't assume that objective morals "was put there by god". I state that God Himself is pure goodness and love in His very being and absent any evil.
Question;
Is throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time?
If all things are merely subjectively wrong this "subjectivity" itself is the root cause of what we call evil and think of as good! What is "humanity" but a fairytale if our own sense of morality can never be objective?
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN funny how you made my point, bushman and other tribes who never heard of god share the same moral, values, from our genetic inheritance,
it come from gene,
as for your good quote from the bible, its all mere copy of oriental philosophy that were around at the time, bhudism,, forget that jesus did travel a bit ,
also, even common sence tell you that once again you cherry pick, choose to ignore the part that says to stone women to death evreething come from secular
reason
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
Of course, humanity ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil and mankind is made in God's image to understand morality, what's so funny about this? If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective. There was no other philosophy before or after Jesus that states to "love your enemy" or when struck to "turn the other cheek" nor any secular law or obligation to do so in ancient and modern times. This is a solely Christian idea by Jesus.
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
you cherry pick what is good in the bible,
as for jesus, he is mention in tibet sacred book, do you really think he dissaper beetween 16 and 33? nothing new about the love message, many were saying exactly that in orient,
study a bit outside christianism,
people rape kill lie so when you say
- If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective you kind of make my point there ,the god image thing, bad one,
what about cro-magnon, australopitecus?
lapmarty 4 months ago
did god just made them and have them instinc 50 000 thosand years ago, you make no sence and so are you argument base on your beleive wich i dont debate,
if you cant argue logicly without your own personal faith stuff get lost
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
It is not human instinct to save an enemy from drowning by any means of the word or evolutionary trait. You have a cartoon understanding of Christian doctrine and science.
You never answered these questions:
Do humans have free will? If yes, from where & what is this free-will agent being derived outside of mere biochemical illusion?
Is throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time? If not, how can you say anything is evil?
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN ill be the big man and answer your question you dont even assess mine, Biological evolution explain altruism, empathy, saving, first start studying far from THE FUCKING BIBLE, we see exemple of that in animal, (havent you seen the famous dog save dog on higway on youtube) againts anthropocentrism, you think human are special, got the monopole on evrething it isnt so,the babie question have answer try following, the fact that it is wrong evrywhere show how bullshit religion is,
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
If morality is mere instinct and/or traits of evolution this means it is Not objective, in another world evolution could have produced anything. Then there's no evolutionary argument that when there is a over-population problem that throwing live human babies into a fire for mere fun is wrong to everyone, in every place and at any time in your world-view. Well, my world-view gives truth to the notion of humanity as more than just unguided evolutionary illusory. Do you have free-will?
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN did you see the fucking dog go and save the other dog putting himself at risk? you need to study the animal kingdom a bit more objective do not mean from outside, trowing baby in fire will never been tolorated as long as common sence is out there , your argument makjes no sence,
your a primate with adrenal gland to big and a too small frontal lobe
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
I am not sure what is worse, your grammar, spelling or vulgar language but I get this a lot from people on your side of the fence. You state that somehow "common sence (sense)" makes some morals objective but then you state that there are no objective morals. Are there or aren't there and how do you derive objectiveness from common sense, the majorities' senses makes truths in ought and ought-nots? I really believe at this point I am casting peals before swine with my questions...
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN
STFU moron
We heard it all before and its all BS
sonykroket 2 months ago
@lapmarty
Of course, humanity ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil and mankind is made in God's image to understand morality, what's so funny about this? If morals merely came from genes there is no obligation to follow them nor can any be objective. There was no other philosophy before or after Jesus that states to "love your enemy" or when struck to "turn the other cheek" nor any secular law or obligation to do so in ancient and modern times. This is a solely Christian idea by Jesus.
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. => All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
ChollieD 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
ChollieD 4 months ago
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@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
ChollieD 4 months ago
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@WILLTHEWGMAN With respect, I think you're looking at determinism wrong. If we agree that suffering sucks, then no philosophy prevents us from setting up rules that mutually reduce our suffering, such as "sticking a hot stick in somebody's eye deserves punishment." Also, for the word "wrong" to have any meaning at all, we need to *agree* on its meaning. All "is's" in communication are predicated on "oughts".
Harris covers this issue in detail in the book, which I can't in 500 characters.
ChollieD 4 months ago
@WILLTHEWGMAN you assume there is something else therefore a preferece landscape,
but atheist agnostic, whatever people of reason i prefer to called them, dont accept this, there is nothing else that what we human do, so whatever we decide as a whole, at a certain time, is the moral landscape,
its not rocket science really you seem to not gasp the concept,if you think you need to measure it over something it is your problem, take a book written 2000 years ago if you wish,
lapmarty 4 months ago
i will prefer to go with more modern one, after all, stoning women to death, and having slave isnt really my thing,
so i will use the standard we have devloppe in this century as it seem to be more peacfull when you take the secular and democratic one, but this is just me and the people of the civilize world,
there is a bunch of people that use the old one from books, in the middle east they are really well organised maybe you should join them??
lapmarty 4 months ago
@lapmarty
"He without sin cast the first stone", "thou shall not covet thy neighbor", "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemy" are far from a modern concepts but a foundation principles in Christianity. No of which are "secular and democratic ones".
Do you believe there are moral objective right and wrongs as in oughts and ought-nots? Do you believe you have freewill, if so, from what and where is your free-will agent being derived from if it is not outside of mere biochemical illusory?
WILLTHEWGMAN 4 months ago
Isalm needs to be disemboweled! It's a pathetic cult everyone needs to shun. The Arab countries cause the most problems of our time. Allah should be burned. To he'll with the muslims.
RratsArtStudio 4 months ago
Sam is brilliant & always has great things to offer. Still, Reza's point is most salient & makes me wonder, would Christianity behave differently in a world where Islamic nations were "super powers?" Maybe, maybe not (& maybe Islamic nations wouldn't be bastions of what is western-like tolerance)... But, the fact is that, religious behavior is a product of social context...
cooljeb3 4 months ago
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ShouldBewOt 4 months ago
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ShouldBewOt 4 months ago
Sam doesnt know what the F8ck he's talking about
bjl34565 4 months ago
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Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
IslamISsick1 4 months ago
It sounds as if you were taught some extremely defective principals of hemanuetics when it comes to studying the Bible. To talk of fictional Holy Books while conflating the Bible w/the Quran, Book of Mormon, etc is clearly nonsensical& contrived itself; they all make vastly dis-similar truth claims regarding meaning & purpose (which is evident in reading them). If you are so concerned w/the pragmatism of the BIble, try reading & following the man-made laws of most county/state statutory codes.
shieldsff 4 months ago
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saintpine 4 months ago
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Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian nation' is an excellent book. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens
zytigon 5 months ago
Sam Harris has very significant things to say. Would reccommend anyone to listen to him.
shanyin1234 5 months ago 40
All war and violence is wrong, but Harris is seriously ignorant of his own nation's violent attacks on other nations throughout the world. Arabs suicide bombing in no way compares to the slaughter waged by the U.S. on foreign lands. I'm not excusing Arab suicide bombing, but for Harris to point to it as the central contradiction is totally naive on his part.
bakari45 5 months ago
@bakari45 Kind of a dumb argument. I understand where you are coming from but you will never see an American, lets say Christian vs Muslim is the debate, turn themselves into a bomb or directly attack civilians. Do civilians die in U.S. attacks? Yea. The price of war. When the soldiers or rebels hide amongst the people, that is going to happen. The difference is that we do not seek to kill the innocent. Jihadists WANT to kill the innocent (infidel).
kperez151 5 months ago
@kperez151
So let me get this straight:
THEY want to kill innocents, but of course WE don't, we only want to kill terrorists (and/or people supporting terrorists)..
THEY are terrorists, but WE are just waging justified wars & it's just collateral damage when we kill the innocent..
THEIR enemy (infidel as you choose) is innocent, but OUR enemy (anyone acting against US interests) is guilty..
THEY use religion (authority) as a justification, WE only use reason & logic as justifications..
Hmm
ElDukerino1 4 months ago
And yes, America can inflict more damage but we have the means. We use those means as cautiously as we can but ware is not perfect. If the Muslim world had our munitions, they would not be so selective in their targets. I'm an atheist. I think all sides are childish but it's an insult to me to have the U.S. painted in the same light, or worse, than these jihadists.
kperez151 5 months ago
Respond to this video... America's problem is choosing illegal wars and having a double standard in supporting liberation movements in Arab countries. I don't like the message the Arab world gets sent when we can support the Egyptian, Libyan, Syrian, and Tunisian liberation movements but Bahrain gets a pass because of our oil dependency with Saudi Arabia. Can't be the light of the world if we can selectively apply the shades
kperez151 5 months ago
At 6:39 you can hear Aslan's vocal chords tighten and then he clears his throat. I don't think he believes what he's saying.
MrScuzzles 5 months ago
Sadly, people often use religion ( pick one) to justify murder and plunder. Columbus's journey to Hispalona was blessed by a priest ( who later redeemed himself). Then went on to commit genocide on the Taino.
sarainreno30 5 months ago
When 77% of people in Lebanon say suicide bombing is justified you need to realize their next door neighbor is a brutal military behemoth using outlawed cluster munitions, heavily mining inhabited areas and enforcing a brutal economic stranglehold and apartheid on humans it considers beneath itself...namely Israel.
Suicide bombing is used most extensively in Sri Lanka smh people need to get facts straight.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 77% of people in Lenanon said it was justified towards NON-combatants. I don't know about you, but I think that's just morally revolting.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood As if Israel doesnt do the same to them! In your reply, I dare you to include the # of innocent NON-combatant Lebanese lives taken in 2006, then claim that Israel has moral highground
Al-Qaeda on the other hand is indoctrinated with a perverted, ignorant theology in which all people who are the slightest bit different are considered subhuman. The polls in pakistan, afghanistan and iraq (in which innocent people are killed indiscriminately) will show different results than Lebanon.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 I never claimed that Israel had the moral ground. I was just correcting your mistake. You can look up the polls. The questions asked were specifically about killing in defense of Islam, not against aggressors. The level of support was, as Sam says, shocking.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood And my point is Lebanon is a poor example of this "polling" because their "defense of Islam" is actually the defense of their sovereign soil and beloved children.
What is shocking is that people confuse the Islam that Reza Aslan, Mustafa Akyol and Tariq Ramadhan allude to as universal egalitarianism and the perverted theology exported by Saudi Arabian wahabi/salafi bigots. Show me the "polls" for support of non combatant killing in iraq afghanistan and pakistan.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 lol Uh, no. The question was in defense of Islam. The religion. Not their home or their family. Look up the polls for yourself. I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood "UNICEF estimated that 30% of Lebanese killed were children under the age of 13"
google: UNICEF The humanitarian challenge in Lebanon
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 So that justifies the support for aggression against NON-combatants. Wow, great logic.
"Oh hey, my next door neighbor has a gun and is trying to kill me. But rather than just defend myself against him, I think I'll go and kill his children as well."
Pretty much what poll for lebanon is saying.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood No its more like "Oh hey, my next door neighbor has a gun and is trying to kill me [AND MY CHILDREN. SO I WLL] just defend myself against him, I think I'll go and kill his children as well."
Now tell me if this is what Muslims did before western imperial colonialism + rise of wahhabism.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 The poll fucking said NON-combatants. Why don't you understand about that?
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood Dude -_- the people Lebanon consider non combatants and the people alqeada considers non combatants ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
Reza Aslan is trying to answer Sam Harris about a poll loaded with ignorance. It sheds no light. Do you really think 77% of people in Lebanon would go to Iraq or China or Russia for that matter and blow people up?! NO! USE THAT NOGGIN!
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 And you know this how? Why should I trust your claim that Lebanon's defintion of a non-combatant is different from the dictionary definition of a non-combatant?
The term "Non-combatant" was clearly stated. Get over it.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood Lol just trust trust common sense.
The American public was perfectly fine with the killing of 100,000+ "non combatants" in the Iraq war. The war in Afghanistan kills non combatants daily. You don't see Americans standing in solidarity saying this is atrocious or shocking. If we killed the same "non combatants" in France or Norway I'm pretty sure the American response would be different don't you think?
At least up till today, not all "non combatants" were created equal. change it.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 lol If someone attacked me, I'd go after them and ONLY them. NOT NON-combatants.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 So let's review. We have a poll saying that over 70% of Lebanese think the murder of Non-combatants is jutified in defense of Islam. You're only excuses are that non-combatant doesn't really mean non-combatant, or that killing innocent people is somehow "ok". I'm done with you. At this point, we're just arguing semantics. Good day.
Drgamedood 5 months ago
@Drgamedood Bro you started the argument about semantics.
Obviously I don't think its right killing any non combatants. The Lebanese people beg to differ since they've been invaded and had their families slaughtered over and over by America and Israel (and this is no stretch, look up wars in Lebanon)
Now if you went to them asking them if it was justified to murder "non combatants" in Russia or China they'd look at you funny and say "No habibi come have some coffee" in a thick Arab accent.
Azamspazam91 5 months ago
@Azamspazam91 Excellent point.
citizenOfNowhere777 5 months ago
even with the last name aslan, he never had a chance
7777777letmein 5 months ago
Reza is a pedophile. I have no evidence of that - just faith !!!
WhiteLakeDan 5 months ago 29
Reza is just babbling without asnswering anything at all. It's embarassing.
sids500 5 months ago
Reza is putting a mask on Islam that is very deceiving!
zomkhan 5 months ago
Reza Alan immediately makes an argument from authority. What else has he got I guess.
MrMonkeyInk 5 months ago
@MrMonkeyInk
God. Oh wait, superstition is not authority, you're right, my bad.
papelhojas 5 months ago
@papelhojas Not really sure what you are trying to say. What I was getting at is that Reza, rather than providing any justification for his claims, simply states that he is an expert on the Middle East and that therefore his position has more validity. This is called an argument from or an appeal to authority which is a common fallacious argument employed by theists.
MrMonkeyInk 5 months ago
its great to see the truth come out in the world and watch the lies of religion start to die off.like a self destructive human who lives by lies and fraud,they will destoy themselves in time and so religion is doing the same thing in our time.
mwarkmusic7 5 months ago
No most wars havnt come out of religion!
puffyclouddd1 5 months ago
What you have to understand mrs. Harris is that the human race is unperfect.
puffyclouddd1 5 months ago
@puffyclouddd1 And religion doesn't help, it makes it worse.
ludogogo 5 months ago
Reza is good at making his point but when your argument is based on bullshit it is difficult to make sense.
L00KWITHIN 5 months ago 2
So reza's argument here is that it is not ISlam but culture and social environment...well how do u explain how the muslim communities behave in the west??
and besides isn't religion just a manifestation of culture?
the two are one and intertwined
ElectricQualia 5 months ago
debating Sam Harris is like lambs to the slaughter.
NefariousVirtuoso88 5 months ago
Reza Aslan instead of addressing the problem goes on the defense
by comparing other religions to Islam and plays the equivalent card
which is sad.
I do understand is not only Religion is religion mixed with tribalism
and failed politics that plays part in the middle eastern countries.
izaccy 6 months ago
@cimsid101 So then I assume you find nothing wrong with Israel indiscriminately bombing Muslim CIVILIANS, since Muslims do it to them as well right?
You also miss the distinction between intentionally targeting noncombatants - i.e. blowing yourself up in a dinner party or restaurant - and unintended civilian casualties - i.e. blowing up a car with Hamas militants and killing several bystanders.
If Muslim suicide bombers were only targeting troops it would be a different issue.
jsampras3 6 months ago
@jsampras3
israel doesnt indiscriminately bomb anything. israel bombs terrorist palestinians. palestinians WANT war, and they are getting what they deserve
robocong7420 6 months ago
@robocong7420 thats not only false, but deeply offending to the people of palestine.. im not religious.. i just see it how it is... israel bombs crouded areas of innoccent people, bombs schools, hospitals ect ect
religion aside.. what israel is doing to palestine is horrific and must stop
P4PMike 6 months ago
@P4PMike
yes i've seen this wierd psychosis before where so-called atheists side with maniac muslims against a westernized liberal democracy. i dont know if it's drugs, or brain damage, or if the euro culture has simply produced effeminate pussies with no fight in them. personally, if i were israel, i'd have a terrorism contest with the palestinians. and i wouldnt give two fucks if they put their rockets in a bunker, or in a hospital. this is war dumb ass
robocong7420 6 months ago
@robocong7420 "israel doesnt indiscriminately bomb anything" hahaha yeah, keep the worthless empty insults comming einstein. you obviously know NOTHING about whats going on over there. the palestinians are being treated like rats, if not worse.
im not going to waste my time with clueless twats like u... american by any chance?
P4PMike 6 months ago
@P4PMike
calling palestinians rats is an insult to rats. israel should begin bombing them indiscriminately, in my humble opinion
robocong7420 6 months ago
@robocong7420 HAHAHAHAHAHA im fuckn pissin muy self i realy am
bjl34565 5 months ago
@robocong7420 They should bomb you with piss balloons instead. Shitbag troll.
LuvChaos 5 months ago
@LuvChaos
nigga please! nothing makes me happier than seeing dead muslims
robocong7420 5 months ago
i dont understand why muslims or chritians engage in these debates and i dont understand why they allow themselves to be cornered by people like sam harris who demand that people faith account for the insanity of members of that faith, i dont know what possessed bin laden and his band of loonies to commit those crimes but it certianly wasnt my God, live and let live
vandexter101 6 months ago
@vandexter101
I guess the problem is that the books (hadith mostly and to some extent the quran) do infact demand the killing of infidels, stoning of gays and misogyny. I'm happy to hear that you are one who doesn't take these texts seriously but I can't see how you can argue against extremism from a religious stand point. You would have to do it from a humanist point of view which you express by saying "live and let live".
omegavalerius 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secularist social perspective
shieldsff 6 months ago
i have man crush on sam, watching him intellectually cornhole reza gives me a chubb
MrMilagroqq 6 months ago
has anyone viewed, "priest can't answer question on cain and abel" it's on faux news. It's a fucking riot do yourself a favor and check it out
MrMilagroqq 6 months ago
Reza is awesome. Sam is awesome. Reza shows patience while Sam is making his points and doesn't interrupt. I still side with Harris's reasoning here, but as far as Reza's arguments go I think they are pretty solid.
BurenVanMartin 6 months ago
@BurenVanMartin
How are Reza's points solid?
TheOtherView 6 months ago
I like Harris, he's a cool, clear thinker. I hate that he wastes so much time debating morons though. He generally only does it when he's promoting a book, but it just seems like an epic waste of his time/abilities.
His opponents turn up with the same old arguments worded differently, and with no facts or evidence (obviously) and each and every time they walk away with their faith/gullibility intact, clinging to religion and enabling the negative aspects of that religion by doing so.
Grr. >.<
UnitedKingdomify 6 months ago
Reza Aslan is an intellectual slimeball.
Mrmoc7 6 months ago 2
I've read both Reza Aslans "How to win a cosmic war" and Sam's "End of faith" and the only logical inference ii can make about religon is simply, why bother?
bjl34565 6 months ago
9:5 "Kill the mushrikun (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) wherever ye find them"
quran4theworld. com/translations/Hilali/9.HTM
9:1-29 are the latest verses spoken by Muhammad (Medina jihadi surahs)
jingel89 6 months ago
"DEBATE" LOL!!!
baldurus1 6 months ago
Sam just dominated the conversation. Wow
topturkey2 6 months ago 2
@idris090 Shia vs Sunni? Really? That's the same tired tribalism that has divided people since pre-history. Islam is stuck in the middle ages and the rest of the world is paying the price.
shootmeintheface81 7 months ago
Reza: "oh SHIT! Sam has -FACTS-..."
o.O
TAz69x 7 months ago 61
Reza: "I don't understand what Islamic civilization means."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
TheXenoChemist 7 months ago 4
@TheXenoChemist haha, true dat!
Islamic Civilization is an oxymoron
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
TAz69x 7 months ago 34
@TAz69x That's cute, but if Islam had never been civilized, they wouldn't have invented algebra, nor would they have preserved the writings of ancient Greece (in Al-Andalus) during the Dark Ages when the Christians were busy burning all pre-Christian/non-Biblical literature. That's not to mention the great architectural works and music and poetry. That's not to say the whole Islamic proposition isn't fµcking crazy (it is), just that there have been few pretty good things along with the horrible.
ChollieD 4 months ago
@ChollieD The advancements made in modern-day Baghdad and the Middle East were made unimpeded by islam until ~1100ce
Islam as a backbone or civic structure of some sort didn't itself bear the intellectual progressions credited to the region and epoch.
TAz69x 4 months ago
@ChollieD you assume that mathematic devloppement , and historical record keeping is linked to the beleif of a entire population wich isnt, some individual gifted devlopped algebra and it would probably happend if they were indhu chinesse or any civilisation, some of the biggest step upward in science have been made by single individual of different faith,
i agree that the whole islamic population isnt bad, but the problem isnt islam its ALL RELIGION, claiming you have the truth when you dont
lapmarty 4 months ago
It seems to me that the longer a religion is in existence the closer it gets to resembling a secular ideology. I've seen Sam debate a Rabbi who admits that religions are man-made! Anyone think the average Muslim would agree with that statement? It's a maturation process. Perhaps they will mature to the point where they are INDISTINGUISHABLE from secularism and we can all stop pretending and dispense with the lot of them. Unreasonably optimistic, I know, but...
JoshwithaJ 7 months ago
apperantly he does not know much about it if those polls are indeed correct. Sam isnt just some ignorant fool, hes got facts. anyway, is it true that islam will only be a religion of peace when everybody submits to shariah law? isnt that what it really is? the peace comes after the domination cause I do not know
1FreeThinker1 7 months ago
@1FreeThinker1
No. There is no "peace" before, after or within Islam or shari'ah law. The "religion of peace" tag is pure propaganda, nothing more.
Msunbird02 5 months ago
I can't take this Aslan guy seriously. Look at his douchebag Andy Samberg haircut. Plus, he's a weaselly debater. Nice head, dick!
johnclavis 7 months ago 2
Reza Aslan = shithead.
preemptivestrike20 7 months ago 4
@preemptivestrike20 are u just stating that specifically because... hes Muslim or because he contrasts against your own preferences or beliefs (whatever they maybe)
your a fucking idiot
Zanthios 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secular social perspectives
shieldsff 7 months ago
"I set the bar rather low for utter derangement !" - Sam certainly knows his onions!
RandomVortex 7 months ago
Reza Aslan may be correct in saying he is an expert on Islam and Sam Harris is not, but we are seldom experts in identifying our own disfunction, an outsider can usually see that before we do. We all have our own internal road maps as M. Scott Peck says, and if we don't expose our road map to other map makers (outsiders) we often don't see the flaws of our own thinking. Reza needs to listen to the criticisms of an outsider.
burkerow 7 months ago
Isn't he(Reza) the guy from Murphy Brown?
sonykroket 7 months ago
muslims in lebanon are about 65-70% how in the hell that study showed that 77% of lebanese agree with suicide problems !!
thelionheart1001 7 months ago
@thelionheart1001 Your absolutely retarded. What he said was that out of all the muslims in Lebanon wich constitute about 65-70 % of the country. 77% of THEM(the Muslim population) where in favor of suicing bombing]. I can't believe i actually had to explain that.
moh490234890238490 7 months ago
@moh490234890238490 first, thanks for the insults. He did say 77% of people in Lebanon, and he meant that. The guy has no clue about the nations he is talking about. Lebanon is way too complex demographically to run American standard polls in. btw you didn't have to explain it :P
thelionheart1001 7 months ago
@thelionheart1001 He said 77% of the muslim population. Your just to stupid to understand it.
moh490234890238490 7 months ago
@moh490234890238490 7:46 he says 77% of people in Lebanon... go get a life
thelionheart1001 7 months ago
@thelionheart1001 Then he just mispoke what he meant was 77% of muslims. Btw Muslims account for 60 percent.
moh490234890238490 7 months ago
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Futurecop2012B 7 months ago
Sam Harris is a complete opportunist and charlatan. He has come to prominence by joining in the scapegoating of Muslims, and supporting the phony "war on terror". He has tried to co-opt the banner of atheism, science and progress, for predatory wars waged by the most powerful military nation in the world, against impoverished and historically oppressed nations. He should explain how the invasion of Iraq, the seizure of its oil, and the murder of a million innocent civilians aid human progress.
mattandersonWSWS 7 months ago