Racist hall of fame: Abraham Lincoln, racist, hero or ???

[omega14j1]

What many people failed to to be informed of is that Lincoln, in his memoirs, wanted to send all slaves and former slaves back to Africa. Only the blacks born of free men in America were to stay. Imagine how this would've changed history. Was Lincoln a racist? Oh yeah, but some would argue he was our best and wisest president. I can't agree with all of that, but it is a popular opinion. Is this taught in schools? Nope, but I think it should be. After all is it not history?

[brawlmasterx96]

lincoln was a racist. there are transcripts of him say nigger regularly in speeches. he freed the slaves only because it weakened the south, and it was hard for working men, like his father to find work, and compete with those who had slaves.

[TheShinema]

Morals change. Many people shared Lincoln's view at that time. White americans and most abolitions are no different than lincoln. In fact, he is just a man who has its faults...africans live among whites wasn't practical at the time because of the circumstances of intolerance. One thing is that made Abraham Lincoln different, is that he made a opportunity for africans to build this nation even better. Took decades, for africans to fight for their freedoms. We have now a black president.

[lubentle]

@TheShinema Our President is not black, he is mixed aka multi-racial, half white and half black

[Zeeboe]

President Lincoln did in fact believe in the equal rights of white and black people, even if he often presented those beliefs in an esoteric manner. Mr. Lincoln's rhetorical strategies reveal much about his statesmanship as he constantly adjusted his language in order to gain an audience and win their support, while subtly reminding them of equality, without offending them.

[turnedup8484]

Abe lincoln was a racist and made it known. It was only the war and the abolitionist movement that made him abolish slavery. But he left a loop hole that actually led to something worse than slavery.Called the Convict leas system. They exploited the loop hole that said slavery and servitude is illegal unless it is punishment for a crime that a person has committed. During this time they reenslaved so many africans kids and all.and sentenced them to these labor camps and most died. research it.

[jackfire55]

Abraham Lincoln was a great and smart man.

[BGDD27]

yes thats all interesting but one thing to think about before judging him. everyone back in that time was racist so you'd think he'd just say all that stuff to get voters. after all in that speech he said no black voters but a year or two after black people were allowed to vote, coincidence. and if he was a racist how come he abolished slavery, if he really did hate black people he would've made them work for him.

[InsightfulGenius]

This certainly has changed my perception of this dude.

[DixieOfDeKalbCounty]

part of that was from his ottawa speech.

[hypnyxx]

And Barack Obama looks up to Lincoln. What does that tell you about Obama? Obama is pro-war, favors the banks and corporations and lies to the people everyday.

[MRY6]

If anyone actually looks at the LIncoln Douglas debate and, unlike this video, look at all the variables, the conclusion will be one of a man who is progressive in his social views but is limited by the bigotry of the rest of the cultural that elects him.

His quote "a universal feeling, whether well or ill-founded, cannot be safely disregarded" shows that what is shown here and the conclusion it tries to draw is not exactly based on well done research XD))

[sedicenobufalo]

jesus was racist too you guys

[MockStoneLLC]

uhm, please tell us how you came to that conclusion. i do not like you puting the son of my God in the same catagory as people like licoln, the kkk, and obama.

[Dmasterman]

To apply 20th century beliefs and standards to an America of 1858 and declare Abraham Lincoln a "racist" is a faulty formula that unfairly distorts Lincoln's true role in advancing civil and human rights. By the standards of his time, Lincoln's views on race and equality were progressive and truly changed minds, policy and most importantly, hearts for years to come.

[starbusra]

I think what you say is one angle, and can be true, but still, we are not living in 1858, and can only reflect from here, 2009. So, where can it take a conversation if we judge what is said through an earlier version of mankind, from the 19th century?! We contemplate through our views, now.

[MockStoneLLC]

what was lincolns role in advancing civil and human rights? i know that hes known as 'the emacipater' but in that document its reffering to, he only freed southern slaves; and would return them as soon as they return to the union.

[kissemurra12]

@Dmasterman

To not apply logic and reason such as human empati no matter the age and custom is to not apply logic and reason. If someone was racist in 1939 germany than that person is racist, period. If that person is in the 1800 then that person is racist. Lincoln could however could have tricked the people that would want to keep slavery, and thus tricked them to believe things would continue to go their way. Which it didnt.

[EndeavourLaunch]

I cannot believe some of the comments on here about the guy who not only the reason you can sit on your ass and type and not having to see a Confederate flag waving over your head, but the guy (although it came to pass in the 13th amendment after his death) pretty much granted freedom to the slaves. It just took a hundered years or so for another man to step up to the plate (MLKJR) to finish his work and he also gave his life for it.

[SecondComing666]

Fuck that Nigger. Im glad he died.

[corebus1203]

these are facts.. he said that in a debate.. the civil war was not about slavery, he just wanted people of color and all to believe that for political advantage.

[skater3shefik]

i know you typed this 3 months ago, but you do not the the truth. abraham lincln was actualy racist and did not try to help free slaves he was actualy for slavery. the truth is is that historians preaty much tweaked the story so much that they made their own story up.

the only reason he brought up slavery was when the north was almsot ready to lose. lincoln was a oportunist and did nothing to help free slaves. what they tell you at school is a lie

[coldh2ocarp]

Start researching. lincoln did Not fight a war to end slavery and did NOT free ANY slaves. The slaves were Not free until the 13th amendment which was after he was Dead. Jim Crowe laws & segregation began in the North. Segregation was forced on the South as Reconstruction. Every slave came here on a yankee ship under an American flag Not a Confederate flag. Its time TRUTH be taught!! Not only did lincoln look down on blacks he ordered thousnads of indians murdered. 300,000 blacks helped DfendDXE

[RustyChopper]

Freedom to Dixie land!

[jtrain997]

absolutley and how do people question that before Bearougard fired on sumter congress proposed a 13th amendment making slavery forever legal in exchange for a 40% tariif on the south

[ericthepim]

That may be true, but we cannot take our values and place them back in time when our ideas are alien to them.

[ryan1977ify]

@coldh2ocarp like your comment there is only one wrong thing to it slaves didnt come here on american ships they came on Dutch,Spanish,Portugese,french and in the pre 1800's British ships but you are right in all other statements!!!

[vlibert]

haha Abraham Lincoln was black go check

[zeke8tom]

Lincoln was a politician. Obama had to denounce Wright. Time and place is a invalid arguement though (H.D.Thoreau lived then).

I grew up hearing bigoted statements and was told my father was from a different era, then i read books and seen he was just merely stupid. Every era has stupid people and enlightened peoople. Although, sometimes we have to feign stupidity for a bigger cause.

If Abe said he wanted Negroes to vote and intermarry, nothing would have been accomplished. Let history judge

[starbusra]

Finally a comment I can really agree with. Even if almost everyone agrees that Lincoln actually was and is a hero (which I myself can accept and understand, though not completely on all grounds) still - it is always good to see historical figures from all sides, even if they might look controversial. Your last sentence is the most true: that is a fact, he surely would have failed had he said that. (conc. Thoreau, as far as I know, he was the kind who didn't compromise in his views)

[lilmissprincess]

"...I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal, and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."-Abraham Lincoln, debating with Douglas in Illinois, 1858

[starbusra]

Okay, Lincoln agreed that "Negros" at least can eat, what they earn, that's nice, that's very handsome - with this in mind, NOW I can forget all that little silliness with intermarrying, voting and office holding. Knowing what you shared, now I wouldn't imagine that such a great guy as Lincoln would be a double-talking manipulator, again I feel I might be wrong posing a question at all... Thanks for sharing!

[lilmissprincess]

"...Notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the Negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence-the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man..."

[baalyezidi]

so you dont agree that blacks and white are different? Because they are.. and im not a racist.. my parents are mexican/spanish But even i know there is difference.. But just because of difference does not mean you have to hate it in any way

[starbusra]

I understand what you say. But, I think the main problem is not whether black, spanish or white are different, the problem is if you ban people from voting or holding office based on those very differences of race/skin/ethnicity... I might be wrong, but okay, maybe this is not a problem for many.

[chairde]

It is wrong to measure historical figures by today's standards and mores. The best measure is to determine how far from the standards of his or her time the person progressed. I remember when MLK was NOT considered a hero even by some black people. Abe Llncoln was despised during his lifetime.

[starbusra]

Probably you are right, but somehow, still I feel that even then, you could just simply not say that, maybe I'm wrong, but why to say such silliness as "not favoring intermarrying", I think it's just awkward, it's not time/era based, it's either you feel the nonsense side, or don't.

[chairde]

When I was young there was a very big taboo against intermarriage and yet now my nephew married a black girl and nobody said anything. Community mores are a very powerful thing. I also thing the speed of change is faster today than in the past.

[starbusra]

I think what you say is true, the speed of change is faster, values/prejudices are more flexible for today's people. Still, I value what's been told (by A.L.) based on my thoughts/beliefs TODAY, and not 150 years ago. (I know, maybe I should be more flexible and understanding :-D ) If I put myself in such an emphatic position, in which I have to understand everyone in their own "world", I might end up not judging a serial killer, because I should understand that he had his own "causes".

[hunternomad]

I think both. 14/88

[starbusra]

Yes, most probably he just had to navigate in an era that was the least flexible concerning racial topics. So, I'm just curious of other people's opinion on this.