"Fire in the Eyes," Part 1

[zippe43467]

Hilarious, Tree huggers get it good! Recommended viewing for any red blooded American, sad as it is it is probably illegal to just go ahead and shoot these vermin.

[NCEFMedia]

@zippe43467 You seem to forget that non-violent civil disobedience is part of the American heritage. Responding to political dissent with violence and torture is more characteristic of a totalitarian government, which is why the activists were able to win the lawsuit associated with these incidents and the Humboldt Co. Sheriff's Dept. can no longer use this tactic on protestors. Without non-violent civil disobedience, it's possible that America would still be segregated.

[NCEFMedia]

@jfagler Nobody deserves to be tortured, no matter where they are from. As for getting the governmet they deserve, the people in the video took the police to court and won, so now this method cannot be used as a means to extract protestors from their lockdown positions.  For years, the police have simply cut the lockboxes, without a single injury; it takes more time, but it's the safe way to do it. So fighting for a cause sometimes does result in a better government, as deserved.

[robodeer]

Its called TRESPASSING you ppl continually break the law.If you want to save trees BUY them.Its simple.

[NCEFMedia]

It's called CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, and it's responsible for some of the greatest shifts in our nation's consciousness and policies. MLK was a big fan of civil disobedience, and the nation is about to celebrate him, in a very big way. Do you have the pocket change to buy old growth trees? Most people don't, so what do you do when you you're not loaded with cash? Nothing? Also, Maxxam was not a willing seller, for the most part. We tried that route, yet you can't fundraise if there's no deal.

[MrLittleman63]

@robodeer nature existed before currency



[robodeer]

i would have happily pissed in these peoples eyes....

[NCEFMedia]

You have some bizarre fantasies there, robodeer, you might want to get some professional help. Why such disdain for people who do something for the greater good? In the end, thousands of trees were saved and the pepper spray lawsuit was won by the activists. A federal jury decided that the Humboldt Co. Sheriff's Dept. was wrong to use pepper spray in this way, as a torture device, and has been forbidden from doing so in the future. You would be on the losing team, robodeer.

[c9d4l]

hahaha!...they got what they deserved...

[NCEFMedia]

Well, the jury disagreed with you, and the Humboldt Co. Sheriff's Dept. can no longer use pepper spray as a torture device. The pepper spray victims became the pepper spray plaintiffs and defeated this practice in court.

Since when do people who want to save trees deserve to be tortured? Think about it.

Torture has been outlawed by international treaties, so you're definitely way behind the times if you advocate or justify torture; or like Bush Jr., take your pick.

[snapdragonabs]

Thank you. Not only are correct about the facts, but you're right on everything else 100%. :)

[booley]

@c9d4l and that's how we get police states.

Because at least a third of the people are ok with these kinds of tactics. They have this belief that if one "breaks the law" then there is little to nothing that's too extreme a punishment.

All the rest of us have to do is stay silent.

[rrvb]

I guess I'll say it again to you lot. This make's you look like a bunch of pampered naive spoiled kids. If your not willing to endure the pain don't fight the battle. I have no sympathy for you. Especially because there have been others that have knowingly and willfully laid down their lives with out even a whimper. You called that a "Death Squad"? That is an insult to everyone that's ever faced a true Death Squad. What? Did you think because your non violent they'd be too? Stupid.

[NCEFMedia]

We, the people, have the right to redress our grievances with our government, without being threatened, injured, or tortured; it's part of living in America, as opposed to China, for example. The activists' rights were violated, and they proved it in court when they won their civil suit against the Humboldt County Sheriff's Dept. Pepper spray can no longer be used as a torture device, because people stood up for their rights to non-violently protest in America. Victory.

[rrvb]

You have that right on paper, yes. That doesn't mean it actually exists. They won their case in CIVIL court. No criminal charges were filed. The fault of the sheriff was not that he used peeper spray but that it was administered improperly. They can still use it and have even a few days ago. They used it before this, and they used it after. What did they win? They still cut down the trees. Non violent protest has never worked, but I digress.

[NCEFMedia]

Winning the right to engage in non-violent civil disobedience and direct action, without being tortured with pepper spray, was the point of the lawsuit, so they did win. OC can be used as a non-lethal means of defending oneself, whether you're a police officer or private citizen, yet it must be noted that some people do have lethal reactions to it, so it's not entirely safe. If you have asthma, for example, OC can be deadly. Non-violent protests have kept many trees standing.

[rrvb]

It wasn't all that I had a problem with anyway. I concure the mace was used improperly however it was well within the sherrifs rights to use it. The fact that they're over exaggerating their own "Martyrdom" is what I found to be in poor taste.

[NCEFMedia]

I disagree. The activists were not posing any physical threat to the officers, nor anyone else, so the use of mace is completely inappropriate, in this type of scenario. It's hard to say what's "over exaggerating" until you've been tortured yourself. It must have been traumatizing, on many levels, and there have been no long-term studies on the effects of OC applied directly to eye tissue. There is some evidence that it can damage the eyes permanently.

[rrvb]

The police have the right to use non lethal means to disperse a crowd this includes mace and tear gas. When a group becomes a crowd is open to debate.I do recognize that the method in which they used it was totally unacceptable. As for the over exaggeration, torture is a very specific thing. Out of respect of people that have been tortured and have face true "Death Squads" I am loath to call this torture. So that's the base of our disagreement here. What actually constitutes torture?

[NCEFMedia]

Yes, I believe the disagreement we have is the definition of torture. I would define torture as "trying to get someone to do something they do not want to do, or to extract information that they may or may not have, using physical and/or mental pain, discomfort, or the threat of such conditions." According to the activists, they experienced extreme pain, much more than "discomfort," in attempts to get them to unlock. Historically, they have been cut out with grinders, with no injuries.

[rrvb]

The main thing I'm trying to get across here. Is that if you're going to fight the battle you can't complain about the wounds you receive. It makes you look bad. It sends the message that you hadn't clearly thought about your actions and weren't prepared for them when they came. In short it makes you appear weak, and weakness never won anything. Though we disagree I have to say you've always responded politely and intelligently and I respect that.

[NCEFMedia]

Thank you, I'm definitely open to respectful debate:) I believe that people do have the right to call out the police for excessive force, in order to preserve our rights to protest without fear of injury or death. When you riot, you can expect the police to do the same; when you protest in a very calm and controlled manner, it's reasonable to expect similar treatment. I feel that the police were getting lazy, and didn't want to take the time to cut people out, thought they could fast-track it

[rrvb]

My experience with civil protest comes from the labor side , Joe Hill for example, which has traditionally been decidedly more violent that ecology protest. Battle of Blair mountain was an extream historical example, but par the norm. I have since changed my views and have been on the police side recently. I sympathize with both sides. The police really mean well, but they are in an akward position in these situations.

[rrvb]

I don't feel they were lazy so much as running out of ideas and options. "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." I've enjoyed this discourse. If another video of yours catches my eye I will def. be back for another row. Till then keep fighting for your beliefs. After all open discourse and freedom of expression are what this country is about. Differing points of view are what makes us a democracy. I'm just sorry it so often turns uncivilized.

[thehurricaine23]

All Cops/Coppers Are Bastards!! It's basically an old punk slogan that a lot of squatters/anarchos in Europe use as a tattoo/rallying call.

[NCEFMedia]

Thanks for explaining what it means and where it came from. I appreciate the rebel vibe behind it, yet the feds will have a harder time demonizing us if we build bridges with police officers who aren't already violent and aggressive. Some friends and I used to yell "freeze!" at the local police, yet, in more recent years, I just smile and wave at them. Some officers are good people, who really want to deter crazy people from harming and otherwise victimizing the populous. Thanks!

[thehurricaine23]

A.C.A.B.

[NCEFMedia]

Please explain this acronym. Thanks!

[haikucuple]

Wow what a horrible abuse of power, these same officers are still terrorizing the fine folks of Humboldt County!

[cfield30]

If the protesters expected to be arrested for nonviolent civil disobedience, and the goal was to raise more public awareness. Couldn't they of accomplished that without locking themselves together? The use of fabricated locking devices changes the dynamics of the situation completely in addition to creating an environment where mistakes are more likely to occur.I just think there is some shared responsibility here, between the protesters and the deputy's.

[NCEFMedia]

North Coast Earth First! has over 20 years of history, with people locking themselves to logging road gates, abandoned cars turned into roadblocks, creative "pods" (roadblocks involving elevated lockdown positions, precariously positioned on logging roads), as well as rallies, non-arrestable protests with signs and banners, climbing on top of and sometimes locking down to logging trucks, and tree-sits, as a few examples. As Americans, have the right to engage in n.v.c.d. without being tortured.

[cfield30]

It appeared from the video that the officers were attempting to gain voluntary compliance through temporary discomfort and pain (IE) Pepper Spray. How the officers applied the pepper spray also appeared to be very concretive(usually they just spray a large amount in your face?) It appears to be a clear case of citizens breaking the law by trespassing and resisting arrest that is an issue that cannot be ignored. I'm curious, how should the police of enforced the law differently?

[NCEFMedia]

There have been no studies on the long-term effects of applying pepper spray directly to the eyeballs. It goes against the manufacturer's directions for use, and it's very possible that such harsh chemicals could result in long-term damage. Traditionally, the Humboldt Co. Sheriff's Dept. would cut the people out of their lockboxes, using grinders and flame-retardant materials, and then are arrested; that's what the activists expected, and were horrified by this "new tactic."

[cfield30]

Actually, pepper spray IS designed to directly contact the eyeballs, nose, mouth, and face. Also, The Journal of Investigative Ophthalmology and Visual Science published a study that concluded that single exposure of the eye to OC is harmless, but repeated exposure can result in long-lasting changes in corneal sensitivity. They found no lasting decrease in visual acuity.

[NCEFMedia]

It's designed to be used at a distance, according to the manufacturer's directions. Long-lasting changes to corneal sensitivity is bad enough, and applying it in high concentration, directly to the eyeball, is likely to produce a different effect than getting a bit of the spray in your eyes.

I believe that the core of the issue is that the police were engaging in torture. People who break the law are subject to arrest and the judicial process, in a civilized society, not torture.

[scryermountain]

Its such a shame that as tax payers we are actually paying them to put pepper spray into our own eyes.

[Notsuredamus]

I was in the USMC I know what pepper spray is feels like. I am also an Earth Firster! North Coast E.F. even tho you guys asked me to leave an action do to disagreements on appropriate tactics I still respect what you stand for. But try to think about what you have endured. Then ponder what you have gained from it. If a cause is worth enduring pain, jail & even life, Then it is worth fighting for. If they want aggression give it to them. They do it for money we do it for love. For the struggle!

[NCEFMedia]

We fight non-violently, and we don't like to give them what they want, if ya know what I mean. Thanks for your supportive comments, just remember that they want us to be aggressive, so that they have an excuse to beat us up and torture us. When we get in their way, non-violently, then we maintain the moral high ground and ultimately beat them in court. As soon as you give in to aggression, you lose the moral high ground. Thanks again! Earth First!

[NCEFMedia]

The activists were yelling in pain, and most of the bystanders were EF! supporters, so they would care. Please try to keep the language clean, we have people of all ages learning about Earth First!  Thanx!

[indioestereo]

Como es eso de earth first, como me uno?

Desde Peru escribo (soy peruano)

[cafetorrado62]

Pls, can you tell me where can i find de book "ecodefense, a fied guide to monkeywrenchin, but IN SPANISH???

...Those policemen remember me our argentine ratis (cops?) from 1970...

[lunchboxbringa]

Thats why you don't mess with the law. They gave them plenty of opportunities to walk away.

[NCEFMedia]

Well, actually, the "law" lost this one. The Earth First!ers brought a civil suit against the Humboldt Co. Sheriff's Dept. and won, so now the "law" can't engage in this kind of behaviour anymore. Earth First!

[cfield30]

what were the charges and what was the verdict? What is the case # and name, "state vs ? "

[cfield30]

Only criminals should "fear the law" they are no more criminal than some one choosing to speed excessively. It appears these people are concerned citizens not people bent on "messing with the law" (by "law" i assume you are meaning the police officers) however I do not advocate these tactics.

[NCEFMedia]

Fair enough. People engage in non-violent civil disobedience and direct action because they feel that all else has failed. It's a bit of a last-resort attempt at bringing attention to issues that are being ignored, and are used to expose ongoing lies and corruption. Civil disobedience helped to build this country, from the Boston Tea Party to Rosa Parks, as well as other well-known campaigns around the world, such as the one in India, led by Gandhi. Letters and phone calls to reps. dont work

[urnman]

Why cant they just get a chain cutter.

[NCEFMedia]

For years, that's what they did. In 1997, they decided they were going to try a new tactic, torturing people, and it backfired on them, in a big way.

[idemandmydreams]

where do we live?

"don't you have a conscious?" and they laugh.

wow. just wow.

[DaveLovesGod]

Its a balance, you are violating the law. But directly to the eye seams a little extreme to me. I am all for your protest. MORE POWER TO YOU!