No matter how you call it, but this is NOT natural horsemanship! This horse is not meant to be "cured" while a big crowd of people is watching, so he has to do something because obviously Pat doesn't allow himself to "fail" in front of the audience. It would have been better if he had stopped this cruel game and said to the audience that it is too much stress for the horse and he will work with him in a more quiet place - a really authentic horseman would do that like i.e. Josh Lyons
you know it is easy to say it Looks abusive, but LOOK AGAIN, LOOK AT THE STALLION BEHAVIOR. NOTE HE IS AT A CLINIC WITH PAT BECAUSE THE OWNER BELIEVED PAT COULD HELP. STALLIONS ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS. THE STALLION BEHAVIOR IS BECAUSE OF ITS OWNER, NOT PAT AND LINDAS TRAINING
the video is not clear enough to see how Pat is handling the stallion. I only know that stallions can be very dangerous and no riding club or riding school accept stallions. some of stallions even try to attack human women who have period to mate! May be Pat tried to fix quickly after 2 hours of struggle since there were audience. I don't blame him for that. You get too much pressure from them while trying to train a stallion in a limited time. After all there is no quick fix to train a horse
This is not abuse. You want abuse? Go to a horse slaughter plant, or a racetrack. Note that this session took TWO HOURS. Anyone who abuses horses would have forced the bit on the horse quickly, only further damaging this horse. Parelli did what was necessary.
@Nitrostreak "Note that this session took TWO HOURS." That was far too long for a single session in rather pressured circumstances (demo in front of an audience). Pat misjudged quite badly here.
This is not abuse. This is a stallion and people HAVE to handle stallions differently then gelding and mares. The majority of stallions if you let them get away with resisting you and giving you threatening gestures (which this stud did several times) they will end of hurting you severely and maybe even end of killing you. A stud is not a gelding or mare. Please know more about handling horses before you post.
i had a stallion like this and we never needed a twich... it took good old time and lots of haltering and un-haltering... when ben was ready he let us do what we needed to do with him... i always was able to get the briddle on him and after a little bit of time and him learning that work was something that he could enjoy he learned to put his head in the the briddle.... O, also be was 18.2hh he was never handled that way
I do not find this abusive, but I don't believe it's the best approach to the situation. I don't care for him. I know people that have witnessed him doing actual abusive things to horses.
Anybody want to bet that somewhere, sometime there was small issue with bridling caused by Human stupidity, but a bunch of know-it-all wahoos decided to teach this horse a lesson and "ear twitch" him? I could train him to get his bridle on like a gentleman, but it would take a lot longer than one little clinic.
what the fuck is wrong with this guy? he is such an idiot and that horse isnt gonna give a shit about "who's boss" after they let him go. he is just gonna be scared more of people. i feel so sorry for that poor horse.
I used to train horses for horse shows and the amount of effort you put into training determines how well the horse performs. You don't have to abuse a horse to train it well. If you feel like you do, then you aren't a good trainer. But I do agree with LinHeartsHorses about the race track industry. You can train a horse to race without a whip. I've done it.
@HeartofEquus "Positive reinforcement has a much longer-lasting effect than punishment." Yes, but as far as I know Pat doesn't use positive reinforcement in any structured way. Why not? Good question! His "solution" for this needle-shy mare clearly shows he is stuck in the dark ages.
Ditto too Eventing4star we real professionals can not be fooled sad so many are taken advantage of by him . I have retrained many stallions like this without cowboy tactics
@JoyfuloneAim " I have retrained many stallions like this without cowboy tactics" Indeed, and anyone who believes that stallions especially need rougher handling than other horses doesn't know stallions.
i don't think this is right. even for those of you saying you sometimes need tools to aid you with your training. i understand that but his "thing" is supposed to be natural horsemanship. in that case he shouldn't need the tools and shouldn't need to force the horse to do something. horse training is all about patience.
Omg, you need to learn what abuse really means. He wasn't hurting the horse, he was trying to help him not be head shy. That stallion was huge! Pat needed a little extra help to control him, stallions can be unpredictable so they need a little extra push for control. The rope obviously didn't hurt him, the horse was just being resistant to the training. You need to look more closely at things. Pat is known for his natural and gentle techniques in training. You need to think more clearly.
I think the quality of the video ist too bad to judge right. Stallions can be dangerous if they are not reared consequently. And pulling the head of if you want to halter is a troublesome and not tolerable habit. I think many "great horses" have such problems, but normaly the rider or owner make the best of it because they dont want to expend effort to change it.
I don't agree with the pat parelli training I think it is a load of Bull that he uses to make money.... I have worked with horses my whole life and in no way was this clip effective horse training....
@newimagetc I never said anything about babying the horse. Your right, a little more firmness would be necessary for this horse. I think Pat is doing a good job.
Sorry if i offend anyone but this is not animal abuse i work with horses and know many people who work with horses and this is nothing compared to what some people do
@diane6600 So? Just because some people do it worse, does it make it okay? You can't use comparatives in that way. There was no need to put the horse under that kind of stress, and using the pulling up of the leg so it only stands on three is an undesirable method of breaking it's will. That's what he's attempting to do - to break the horses will... not work with it.
All trainers when working with stallions need to be very aware they are stallions. I do not agree with what I see in this video on several levels. there are many people in the audience that don't have horse experience and will try this at home. Number two if the stallion needed more time to have a trust built It doesn't mean Pat failed-it means so horses won't respond to his methods. Monty and Buck would not have gone to that method so quickly!
The horse does NOT look distressed and it doesn't look abused. A stallion needs good manners to have a good life. I am impressed by the video, not distressed!
@letters448 "The horse does NOT look distressed and it doesn't look abused." More harassed, I would say. I think the horse would rather be somewhere else.
"A stallion needs good manners to have a good life." Surely that could be said of all horses, no?
"I am impressed by the video" Wow! I thought it looks pretty crummy.
The horse is a reflextion of our selves, this horse had either been abused or spoiled rotten. Either way he got to the point he is dangerous to bridle, sometimes it will get dark before it gets light. Be as gentle as you can but firm as necessary. You allow the horse to make mistakes and find the answer, Pat is simply making the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult.
@MrRockingp Stallions especially are strong reactive animals and they sometimes require a very firm appoach. You cannot baby a stallion you will get yourself killed that way. My approach has always been firm and effective but not abusive. This type of horse requries a skilled proffesional to know how much pressure to put on and when to take it off. Most average horse or non horse people don't know this. Neither can they recognize it. All they can see are the negatives....
i dont know who this is, this isnt horsemanship, it doesnt seem like it'll do the horse anygood. You'll have to work harder to solve his problems. I dont think its abuse either. This guy was too forceful but thats all. I wouldnt do this to my horse, thats for sure.
@samphire87 "i dont know who this is, this isnt horsemanship, it doesnt seem like it'll do the horse anygood. You'll have to work harder to solve his problems. I dont think its abuse either. This guy was too forceful but thats all. I wouldnt do this to my horse, thats for sure." I agree with everything you wrote. Not abuse, but poor horsemanship. Unnecessarily forceful and there are better ways to deal with headshyness.
It's a stallion, they are not easy. And they can be very dangerous to the people who are watching, too. Maybe in their place that horse is an angel, but with all that public and music and new arena the horse got a little nervous. Pat may be able to do all what he was going to show when the horse is quite and relaxed, but he wasn't relaxed at that moment. And, as I told you, a nervous stallion can be dangerous. He did well when he tried to catch the horse, but it wasn't easy...
That is not abuse. Sometimes Horses need to know who is boss, and sometimes you need force and pressure on them. People expect horsemanship to be all loveydovey and pretty, That is not always the case.
@ShandyHorse Horses need and want to know who is boss, and this is abuse. Ya know how to get a bridle on a horse that doesn't want you within 50 feet of his head? Time. Just time. There was pressure pressure pressure, where was the release? The "cowboy up" types always forget the release part.
He didnt really "abuse" the horse. He made a stupid decision and made himself look like a fool and a hypocrite...but at least he didnt beat the horse until it couldnt move....
This is no-way Pat Parelli and Linda just a couple of wannabees lookilikies, the mannerisms and silhouettes are way off if you inspect this blurry poor excuse for a video. I am not sucked in.
Thank you for letting me know about the "letter" from Pat and I did find it and it explains the whole situation. I'm good with it, but it's too bad that most of the folks commenting have not seen it and I've noticed that a lot of them want to discredit the Parelli program for selfish reasons. I feel sorry for them. The video is a year old and of no consequence. My regret is coming across this video and watching it and reading the comments.
This is a very poor, blurry video sent in by someone with an axe to grind. I can't even tell if it's Pat Parelli in the the video and I've met him. Pretty darn hard to tell what's going on except that the horse is difficult. Really now...can you actually see a stud chain or twitch? Parelli never uses that stuff. Next time honey, if you have a vendetta, please show us something we can see not fuzzy images intermixed with accusations. Get a life and stop wasting our time.
if you think this is abuse apparently youve never worked with a wild or stubborn horse let alone a stallion.....when ya do come back and youll realize its not so bad
there is no such thing as natural horsemanship! there is nothing natural for a horse to want to be able to be ridden. If he were actually doing "natural horsmanship" then he would have known that grabing at a horses head is a preditorial action!
I'm a dog rescue person, and not a horse person, but whatever his methods, this video doesn't look like it's working for him. The horse wasn't cooperating at all in my opinion.
i have to confess if you think anything was done wrong here then you are out of luck when it comes to horses. you should look into getting a cat, or a gerbil
I like some of pat parellis methods, but some i just ignore. he is an ass hole in person i have heard, but i think people need tp try and adapt what works for them, and the horse best. take some of his methods on board, left some in the dust.
pat parelli is so good at teaching! just kidding! i wonder how this ended up... doesnt look very successful of a method. im not saying it was abuse but i mean come on if you are a world known trainer you should be able to handle a stud a little better than that!
This is not horse abuse. You have to understand that wild horses, and horses naturally in a herd will be very aggressive. They bite each other, kick, buck, and charge at them. You just sometimes need to use a little aggression. REAL abuse is whipping the horse, jerking hard at a horse's mouth with a harsh bit. NOT putting on a bridle a little aggressively. Did you ever notice how in Parelli's videos his horses follow him like dogs? You've never watched them, have you?
Sometimes we need to assert ourselves in what others deem as abuse. Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them. To witness real and continued abuse/torture of horses, please direct your much needed efforts to the race track industry. Then go do horse shows. Namely gaited horses, then to the Arabians and on and on. It is horrific.
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
@LinHeartsHorses We have gaited horses and they are not abused... Some do practice soreing yes but we dont believe in it. A good gaited horse will have a smooth natural gait. Its not the breed of horse its people. Also my horses are shod no differently than a quarter horse and still preform their natural smooth gait.
not every horse responds to "love, and persistance" some horses you just gotta say; do it NOW, otherwise they'll never learn, others DO need patience, just depends on the horse i guess..
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy"." I just watched it and am totally unimpressed. In the time he spent talking and upsetting the horse with leg ropes, someone *could* have got the mare accepting a needle in the vein (not just in the neck muscle, duh!). Pat obviously hasn't heard of counter-conditioning, or doesn't understand it. This technique should have been tried with Catwalk too and saved all this undignified messing about.
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged" The appalling thing about this video is the way Pat talks a perfectly ordinary horse up into some kind of Level 4 disturbed individual. (Pat loves his levels, doesn't he?) For crying out loud the mare was needle-shy, not a monster! Then he uses this to convince people that "somewhat extreme measures must be taken". B*llshit!
@LinHeartsHorses Gaited horses aren't abused. Really? How about polo horses getting smacked in the legs? Or jumpers coming down off a jump? Every discipline has its downfalls. My horses are treated wonderfully. Please. Attend one of my horse shows, then shove your foot in your mouth. Thanks.
@kadytess Please don't assume everyone in the gaited industry is a saint. I've SEEN the hot mustard and whipping chains put on gaited horses. That's more abuse than any jumper goes through. I won't defend polo, as I consider it dangerous and cruel.
@Nitrostreak Yeah. Understandably so. But it isn't necessary for people to assume that we're all out there beating our horses in the gaited world. Any industry you go into you'll find people doing some f*cked up stuff to horses.
This video not very authentic, we can't hear what Pat Parelli said and you can write what you want... The Quality is bad too. We don't know the situation. I don't think it's abuse... I think Parelli is a good natural Trainer ;-) Everybody can think about how to work with his horse. I work natural, but not only parelli, I use the best things of many trainers (best for me and my horse)
Eventingnation you are a dumb bitch i bet your one of those "parelli" people that make your horse back up after every little thing. Like Elkeleigh said you have to be bigger than the horse scotch hobble is a good way to do that and make them know your the boss. you see Parelli do all these things with horses but when you have horses that are asses you need to be in control. some day you'll get rid of your horse because its "bad" when really your the irresponsible owner that let it walk over you.
@laxanimal18 "Like Elkeleigh said you have to be bigger than the horse scotch hobble is a good way to do that and make them know your the boss." Look for YouTube video "one leg hobble" by MrCaitihoch to see hobble being used in example of superb natural horsemanship. Would Parelli be prideful of this?!
@BoldHollis The "irresponsible" owner is Robert Whitaker. It is not untrained or unhandled, it's the stupid handlers. So get a life you saddo and do some research.
Why is a horse this scared and aggressive still a stallion? Who is the irresponsible owner that has not gelded this horse? Maybe the methods could be questioned but the simple fact is that an unhandled, untrained stallion will eventually hurt someone.
this isnt horse cruelty , its called 'training' , sometimes a horse dosent respond to natrual trianing tecniques so you need to be a little more agressive. Especially with a two thousand pound stallion that could easily trample you. But with the twitch & the rope around his legs, pat can control the stallion. This is why people under 15 cant handle a stallion ..
I sort of get that he wants to make money doing clinics and stuff, but IMO a horse who has trust issues should be trained over a period of time in a "safe" environment not be hauled of to participate in a clinic in front of full bleechers with the added pressure for the trainer to "produce" in two hours or less.
come on you are the most stupid person ever!! he was doing what the horse needed and i know some people wont see that but if you kept watching after about 10 minutes that horse was carm and relaxed.
I don't particularly like the rope around the leg (I mean, whats up with that!?) But I've watched one of his shows before. I don't find him to be abusive. It's my opinion that he was having a bad day and should have stopped. Normally I would not expect this out of him. As this is the only evidence I've found of him not using good method, I'm going to give him benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong, I won't argue, but that's my thoughts.
Catwalk was afraid of the bridle, probably because a previous trainer, purposefully or not, hurt him with it
what that horse needed was someone to take the time to train him without agression.
and not to mention he's a stallion. you can say what you like about your horse being gentled, but it's never 100% and ESPECIALLY not if you're talking about a stallion.
Catwalk looks like a good horse, but training away fear needs much more time (and brains) than parelli seems capable of here.
who ever said this is abuse needs to open there eyes I have been around the world with horse from the ranch to the race track to the back woods of NWT, I have meet man around the work that belive you need to smack the head down with a bord to make them smeat so plse dont think you know everthing just keep you mouth shut and lean what you need and want.
Trying to cram learning! All for show... that horse deserved better...stallion or not... he deserved leadership instead of whatever that was called... a flashy show for the audience I guess... DISLIKE...
@gradyblade actually yes, and yes you need to be on your guard and may sometimes have to put a bit more pressure on in the horse gets in your space, but the horse can read body-language like a book. This is supposed to be a man who works kindly and 'naturally' with horses. this is not kind, or natural, horses do not pin eachother's heads to the floor, and if you spent time with horses you would notice they very VERY rarely make contact, it is all with body language and gestures.
If you really understood equine in any shape form or fashion you wouldn't be as judgemental. This video seems to consist of a 1200lbs stallion who is unwilling to comply with trainers request. Question for you, " How many horses have you sucessfully trained. Have you ever been in the presence of an untrained staillion? Don't judge a man until you walked a mile in his moccasins.
Part of the problem is trying to cram all the training into the constraints of the time allotted. I work with a lot of horses and each horse has its own time table. The modern clinicians all use the same basic principles. They have their own techniques. The problem is not everyone is the same as the clinician. It's equally important to learn as much as possible and apply the techniques as they suit your personality. However, also learn to recognize when it's time to take a break.
i honestly dont see any "abuse" here. granted i never really thought a "natural horsemanship" trainer would use these techniques so i guess i can see where some of you are coming from. take into consideration though that stallions can be dangerous if not trained/handled right. either this horse has been abused in the past and is head shy or its an ill mannered stud who has gotten away with things so now he knows he can get away with it. and he needs to know his limits.
I own and work with stallions every day and have never had to use that type of restraint........That is also a type of running W that should be outlawed, very stupid!
I have never bought into the whole "natural horse training" crap. Thing is, this guy SELLS "NHTC" and then uses methods that are NOT in line with his own methods? That is never ok. Furthermore, as someone who has trained many and understands that horses dont fart rainbows and could kill me, I think what he did here was stupid. He put a horse that could not go in front of a crowd and "get fixed in an hour" in a bad situation. He kept the horse in that situation because of his ego.
The simple fact is, most horses dislike the very fact that you're taking them out of the paddock, let alone asking them to do something they're not sure of and never done before in a strange arena in front of a bunch of people.
Pat did OK with this horse and I'd love a chance to watch the man in action, I think he'd know more about what was going on inside that horse's mind then the person taking the video. Other wise they would be out there showing what to do and pat would be in the stand.
@chance666ify "The simple fact is, most horses dislike the very fact that you're taking them out of the paddock" Does that include Parelli-trained horses? ;-)
@fburton8 WTF ARE YOU ASKING ME FOR???? Ask the expert himself dickhead. All I see here is wanna-be's critising, if you were so damned talented with horses, we'd be paying all of you to see the wisdom, but nooooooo, you just sit on the side lines and bitch! GET OUT THERE AND DO YOUR OWN VIDEOS if you know so much more than he does then put your money where your mouth is. It's really easy to piss and moan when you don't have to back it up with video proof. So get out there and back it up.
@chance666ify "WTF..." There is absolutely no need to be so rude. Having worked with stallions (some quite aggressive - which Catwalk was not!) and helped headshy horses, I'd be happy to work with a headshy stallion if the opportunity arose and even video the process. I don't think it would be as "exciting" as this video though!
It isn't so much that he is using the techniques they show, its is the fact that he claims to be a "natural horseman". The techniques shown are not based on "a holistic approach to natural horse training based on developing a natural relationship with your horse through understanding his/her nature and understanding the world from the horse's point of view" . If you ask me, he wasn't understanding anything that horse was telling him.
I may not be an expert when it comes to horses, but fact is that this horse CLEARLY dislikes what is done with him. Whatever that man is respected by others, these methods are nothing natural.
If that was my horse and someone would treat it that way, I would give them a good beating, regardless of what so many fans think about him and his methods. :/
Hey folks with nasty comments, How many unfamiliar horses do you handle in a year? Many horses are outright dangerous and sometimes "keeping it natural" doesn't fly. This horse was probably at that clinic because it was already way out of hand.
You can't rush with horses you have to tae your time while training and not force them to do what you like but listen and wait till they are ready and show they are ready to move onto the next step in training. I don't like pat I've always thought of him as fake and he's just in it for money and fame not in it for the horses.
a good trainer would never have to resort to such force if they new how to properly train and knew all horses learn and respond differently and not all horses will accept say having there ears and face handled in such a short time. All depends on the horse. I've trained horses from unhandled and have had some within 3 months were already started under saddle and were fine being touched all over etc and others that took almost a year before I felt they were ready to back.
@jessejamesgirl "mg horse training isnt alway pretty. its not always fluff anf butterflys." However, I contend that the best horse training always looks calm and *quiet*.
I don't quite understand what he was trying to do in the beginning when he was leading the horse, it looked like he was flicking the lead rope at the horse, I don't get that part.
It may have been a better idea to close the lesson down and let the horse get some time off rather than keep nagging him, sometimes just easier to walk away from a frustrated and tense horse.
There is no such thing as "natural" horse training. I am not a Parelli person. I have worked with a lot of stallions and if you do not match their aggression you will get hurt. This was in no way abuse. Sometimes you have to behave like a horse and if you have ever watched horses interact they are very aggressive with eachother and as a horse trainer sometimes you have to be aggressive. That is just the way it is. If you think you can just pet them into submission you are wrong!
@elkeleigh you don't need to have the horses submit to you to be able to ride them/work with them, check out Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling videos, I went to a Parelli 3 day work shop as well and didn't make it to day number 3, I was disappointed and upset and no longer a Parelli method follower. I wish I would have taken some videos myself of what I saw.
@elkeleigh Horses aggress differently to the way Parelli is now. They very rarely actually injure each other. They have adapted to read gestures and avoid conflict before any contact is made as the consequences of a physical fight can be very bad. Like all animals horses need firm handling but to frighten or hurt an animal into submission actually makes it more dangerous in the long term as it becomes fearful, but usually have learnt not to show that fear.
@AmalamCooper " They very rarely actually injure each other." hmmm and how many people have treated a horse for bite or kick injuries? or even injuries to a horse that has been chased and caused injury?
All of you that says this is cruel are IDIOTS!!! get rid of your horses before you get hurt becasue you dont know what the fuck your doing. please do the world a favor
@elkeleigh amen! im more of a clinton anderson person myself cause he works more in baby steps that the horse can understand but sometimes you have to buck up and get your horse to respect you, its the same thing with the parents who never want to discipline their kids! however i can see a million different ways to get this horse to accept the bridle
I'm guessing all of you who bad mouth are stallion experts? I've seen people do this and it work just fine, remember he's working with a STALLION 1,000 plus pounds of pure testosterone, he's wired for one thing and one thing only.. What I see is Pat showing the horse that he (Pat) is the boss you will not walk over me, you will listen because I am the alpha male... think on that before you bad mouth someone
IMHO everyone keeps focusing on dominance here. Or the horse was frightened. Natural horsemanship is not all about dominance. But in this case this was a learned behavior that may have started with fear or pain. Now it has become habitual and avoidance issues. What I believe was being done is interrupting the pattern. Some horses you can be light and use other methods others need tougher methods. The goal is causing balance when extremes in the horse's behavior.
in nature horses like this 1 are known as the alpha horses, so in order for this horse to become a partner, he probably needed to have some force applied. i dont see anything wrong with how pat is handling it. som horses just ned an extra push. nature also includes showing the animal whos boss. i dnt se pat hurting the horse. i se pat showing the horse that he wont b pushed around and he demands respect. theres nothing abusive about that, and if u think it is then ur horse wil walk all over u.
a twich can make them sleepy not hurt them. you have to show the horse you are the alfa male or matriark mare. do u understand natural-horsemanship?????? u have to be the boss and not get trampled on but a horse! think! not every horse can be fixed..... just think bout th for a bit.
The horse's reaction tells it all. People here defending what the man is doing is on the human perspective which is not natural for the horse at all because the horse is the nature itself!!! Thanks for the upload.
You need to learn somewhat the methods Parelli uses. He absolutely believes in Natural Horsemanship..however, you'll see in your video, or the stuff that you show anyway, that he never whips it, uses brute force, but if you think that he could have quieted down a horse by loving it at that point, you're wrong. Stallions are also just like mustangs and unless worked with can be violent. He could have thought other violence could have ensued. It's too bad he was used as an example horse however.
It's a 1,400lb animal. Not to mention - a stallion. Sometimes you have to take the more direct method. Kindly asking, and requesting a horse that other people have already messed up, to do something; isn't going to always work. If this horse was green and had no previous experience and was acting this way, then ya that wouldn't be the best way to go about working with it. But the reality is that he had all of those bad habits set in his mind, and he needed a firmer request.
These two clearly need to see the Master at work! Monty Roberts.....show them how to do it properly!... Check this out on Youtube:- Hello, Monty Roberts Centaur!
@mojomeil I've seen Monty - I think he might be worse - I was appauled - as were quite a few other people there - whom I did not know - some of us walked out!
@Peaka01 why would they need to drug or dope this horse?, he wasn't being bad at all, the Parelli's just don't get that all methods don't work on all horses and this horse needed more time than they gave him, they obviously don't understand horse body language at all.
@Peaka01 can you show me an article where this has been proven? not being sarcastic but if something is stated as a fact there has to have been research done on it or it is just an opinion.
I am not commenting on the right or wrong of what he did either.
You all who think this is abuse are full of shit, your fucking stupid. Don't judge the guy. Get off your fucking lazy worthless ass's and do that with a horse.
@11huggiebear Well,it is abusive from the horses perspective.I've been around horses all my life & have been working with them professionally for about 40 years.I've seen just about everything people do with& to horses & have worked with MANY troubled horses,damaged by humans 'showing the horse who's boss' In this case the demeanor behind the use of the tools was most harmful & reflected back onto an already unsure horse and thus escalated.To a horse attitude and really small things are huge.
Part 3)The Parelli's being who/what they tout themselves to be, should have turned that situation into a positive learning experience for both the horse & the audience by offering and demonstrating good/positive training information & skills that offered comfort, leadership and wellbeing for the horse.Less rather than more, perhaps. No horse should have to endure that kind of handling. He will never forget it.
Part2) In continuation of my previous post. Perhaps the horse should not have been at liberty the entire time as I mentioned as that is not always appropriate, I was feeling his need to get away from them! None the less the Parelli's should have been preparing the horse for what they wanted as opposed to forcing something on a it. I've learned most horses rarely resist without just cause and I think he was just not ready for what ever reason and was expressing himself.
I don't care what you call it-it's BS! This horse should have had the choice to leave - he should have been at liberty the entire time - until he was ready to be with the people - never mind trying to put a bridle on him! It was all forced - The poor horse was stressed - it was human error and a good example of why many horses wind up the way they do - note the snowball effect from start to finish.I have rehabed many horses who have been 'trained' in this fashion.No regard for the horse...
i have a horse who is 9 and a bit green . he can be very anxious and yes i hit him some times but you have to do this. it shows horses they cant be in control of you.. but i agree horse abuse is terrible and maybe this guy should have givin the horse a break obviously the thing is scared. thats when you need to show it love. this video is wrong but i see where disoplin is needed
@Dare2beShaumbra
I totally agree with you. Even more of a reason I don't like this guy.............
jumperbarrel 2 hours ago
No matter how you call it, but this is NOT natural horsemanship! This horse is not meant to be "cured" while a big crowd of people is watching, so he has to do something because obviously Pat doesn't allow himself to "fail" in front of the audience. It would have been better if he had stopped this cruel game and said to the audience that it is too much stress for the horse and he will work with him in a more quiet place - a really authentic horseman would do that like i.e. Josh Lyons
Dare2beShaumbra 5 hours ago
@Rayschall1 stallions attac human women who have period to mate? since when?
trultajenta 9 hours ago
you know it is easy to say it Looks abusive, but LOOK AGAIN, LOOK AT THE STALLION BEHAVIOR. NOTE HE IS AT A CLINIC WITH PAT BECAUSE THE OWNER BELIEVED PAT COULD HELP. STALLIONS ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS. THE STALLION BEHAVIOR IS BECAUSE OF ITS OWNER, NOT PAT AND LINDAS TRAINING
TheLittleonejade1 2 days ago 3
the video is not clear enough to see how Pat is handling the stallion. I only know that stallions can be very dangerous and no riding club or riding school accept stallions. some of stallions even try to attack human women who have period to mate! May be Pat tried to fix quickly after 2 hours of struggle since there were audience. I don't blame him for that. You get too much pressure from them while trying to train a stallion in a limited time. After all there is no quick fix to train a horse
Rayschall1 3 days ago
@Rayschall1 "no riding club or riding school accept stallions" Of course, it depends on what country you're talking about.
fburton8 3 days ago
parelli is an amazing trainer, the guys made it obvious he knows what hes doing
4evrMusicAsMedicine 3 days ago
this is not even bad I'd love to see if you have horses, I'm sure they'd walk all over you, have fun getting killed
outlivin 3 days ago
hahha this aint abuse. i have dealed with many horses including a stallion or 2 and if he/she thinks their in boss then you get hurt,
MewSilverGold 3 days ago
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@MewSilverGold "a stallion or 2" How many?! And you consider yourself to be experienced with stallions?
fburton8 3 days ago
eventingnation doesn't know what he is talking about.
Princeaboo 3 days ago
This is not abuse. You want abuse? Go to a horse slaughter plant, or a racetrack. Note that this session took TWO HOURS. Anyone who abuses horses would have forced the bit on the horse quickly, only further damaging this horse. Parelli did what was necessary.
Nitrostreak 4 days ago
@Nitrostreak "Note that this session took TWO HOURS." That was far too long for a single session in rather pressured circumstances (demo in front of an audience). Pat misjudged quite badly here.
fburton8 3 days ago
This is not abuse. This is a stallion and people HAVE to handle stallions differently then gelding and mares. The majority of stallions if you let them get away with resisting you and giving you threatening gestures (which this stud did several times) they will end of hurting you severely and maybe even end of killing you. A stud is not a gelding or mare. Please know more about handling horses before you post.
eaglestable 4 days ago 2
@eaglestable "giving you threatening gestures (which this stud did several times)" Where?? Please show me!
fburton8 3 days ago
This horse gets bridled every day by your average groom. No idea why Patsy has so much trouble.
thomasfaltejsek 4 days ago
Abuse? Try "how stuff happens in the real world"
QHriderke 5 days ago 2
are you serious? This is not abuse! Stallions are headstrong and need a forceful hand. Learn before you post!
horselover0730 5 days ago 2
i had a stallion like this and we never needed a twich... it took good old time and lots of haltering and un-haltering... when ben was ready he let us do what we needed to do with him... i always was able to get the briddle on him and after a little bit of time and him learning that work was something that he could enjoy he learned to put his head in the the briddle.... O, also be was 18.2hh he was never handled that way
dollar151990 6 days ago
obviously that is a green horse! what he was doing was WAY WRONG!!! if a horse backs up in fear DONT APPROACH WITH FORCE DUMB ASS!!!
16Snapple 6 days ago
I do not find this abusive, but I don't believe it's the best approach to the situation. I don't care for him. I know people that have witnessed him doing actual abusive things to horses.
Jo2Jo9 6 days ago
serious this is not horse abuse, I so totally agree with shandyhorse
samanthaXlover 1 week ago
Anybody want to bet that somewhere, sometime there was small issue with bridling caused by Human stupidity, but a bunch of know-it-all wahoos decided to teach this horse a lesson and "ear twitch" him? I could train him to get his bridle on like a gentleman, but it would take a lot longer than one little clinic.
pmarie2003 1 week ago
what the fuck is wrong with this guy? he is such an idiot and that horse isnt gonna give a shit about "who's boss" after they let him go. he is just gonna be scared more of people. i feel so sorry for that poor horse.
SamAndGonzo 1 week ago
I used to train horses for horse shows and the amount of effort you put into training determines how well the horse performs. You don't have to abuse a horse to train it well. If you feel like you do, then you aren't a good trainer. But I do agree with LinHeartsHorses about the race track industry. You can train a horse to race without a whip. I've done it.
PlanetStudier 1 week ago
I have two words for all of you here. CLINTON ANDERSON!! :)
jnahorsetrain 1 week ago
Parelli needs to learn Monty Roberts methods, not old fashioned tying down horses with ropes. I am disgusted.
figarodapony 1 week ago
I really wished the horse would have kicked him in the face, oh no sorry I don't, he would have put it down for 'misbehaving'.
figarodapony 1 week ago
Keep it natural...not Parelli
figarodapony 1 week ago
Pathetic post...get a life!
im4rodeo 1 week ago
i walked out of his show when the horses they "love" refused to perform due to contracted shod feet.
hoofforeeya 1 week ago
Shame on you pat :0( the horse is backing away, pat is stood square on following it, in horse language does thus not mean GO AWAY to the horse
bridgetwiston 1 week ago
Positive reinforcement has a much longer-lasting effect than punishment.
Stress hormones inhibit learning.
Why use whips, ropes and restriction if they're not only not needed, but counterproductive?
HeartofEquus 1 week ago
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@HeartofEquus "Positive reinforcement has a much longer-lasting effect than punishment." Yes, but as far as I know Pat doesn't use positive reinforcement in any structured way. Why not? Good question! His "solution" for this needle-shy mare clearly shows he is stuck in the dark ages.
fburton8 1 week ago
Ditto too Eventing4star we real professionals can not be fooled sad so many are taken advantage of by him . I have retrained many stallions like this without cowboy tactics
JoyfuloneAim 1 week ago
@JoyfuloneAim " I have retrained many stallions like this without cowboy tactics" Indeed, and anyone who believes that stallions especially need rougher handling than other horses doesn't know stallions.
fburton8 1 week ago
i don't think this is right. even for those of you saying you sometimes need tools to aid you with your training. i understand that but his "thing" is supposed to be natural horsemanship. in that case he shouldn't need the tools and shouldn't need to force the horse to do something. horse training is all about patience.
phorzebracorn131 1 week ago
Omg, you need to learn what abuse really means. He wasn't hurting the horse, he was trying to help him not be head shy. That stallion was huge! Pat needed a little extra help to control him, stallions can be unpredictable so they need a little extra push for control. The rope obviously didn't hurt him, the horse was just being resistant to the training. You need to look more closely at things. Pat is known for his natural and gentle techniques in training. You need to think more clearly.
Yuuchichan01 1 week ago
I think the quality of the video ist too bad to judge right. Stallions can be dangerous if they are not reared consequently. And pulling the head of if you want to halter is a troublesome and not tolerable habit. I think many "great horses" have such problems, but normaly the rider or owner make the best of it because they dont want to expend effort to change it.
ThexMinE 1 week ago
I don't agree with the pat parelli training I think it is a load of Bull that he uses to make money.... I have worked with horses my whole life and in no way was this clip effective horse training....
Eventing4star 1 week ago 3
@newimagetc I never said anything about babying the horse. Your right, a little more firmness would be necessary for this horse. I think Pat is doing a good job.
kcc1128 2 weeks ago
Sorry if i offend anyone but this is not animal abuse i work with horses and know many people who work with horses and this is nothing compared to what some people do
diane6600 2 weeks ago 3
@diane6600 So? Just because some people do it worse, does it make it okay? You can't use comparatives in that way. There was no need to put the horse under that kind of stress, and using the pulling up of the leg so it only stands on three is an undesirable method of breaking it's will. That's what he's attempting to do - to break the horses will... not work with it.
whataboutredlorry 1 week ago
@whataboutredlorry well i guess we all have our own opinions and mine is that he is not trying to harm the horse in any way what so ever.
diane6600 1 week ago
All trainers when working with stallions need to be very aware they are stallions. I do not agree with what I see in this video on several levels. there are many people in the audience that don't have horse experience and will try this at home. Number two if the stallion needed more time to have a trust built It doesn't mean Pat failed-it means so horses won't respond to his methods. Monty and Buck would not have gone to that method so quickly!
barthalomue 2 weeks ago 2
The horse does NOT look distressed and it doesn't look abused. A stallion needs good manners to have a good life. I am impressed by the video, not distressed!
letters448 2 weeks ago 3
@letters448 "The horse does NOT look distressed and it doesn't look abused." More harassed, I would say. I think the horse would rather be somewhere else.
"A stallion needs good manners to have a good life." Surely that could be said of all horses, no?
"I am impressed by the video" Wow! I thought it looks pretty crummy.
fburton8 2 weeks ago
Shut up
airboy90 2 weeks ago
And this is SO natural for the horse. Good job Pat, good job.
horsesLcool 2 weeks ago
The horse is a reflextion of our selves, this horse had either been abused or spoiled rotten. Either way he got to the point he is dangerous to bridle, sometimes it will get dark before it gets light. Be as gentle as you can but firm as necessary. You allow the horse to make mistakes and find the answer, Pat is simply making the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult.
MrRockingp 2 weeks ago 2
@MrRockingp Stallions especially are strong reactive animals and they sometimes require a very firm appoach. You cannot baby a stallion you will get yourself killed that way. My approach has always been firm and effective but not abusive. This type of horse requries a skilled proffesional to know how much pressure to put on and when to take it off. Most average horse or non horse people don't know this. Neither can they recognize it. All they can see are the negatives....
newimagetc 2 weeks ago 12
You think this is abuse?? really? Have you ever broken a horse or rode one for that matter?
BrrlraceNgirl10 2 weeks ago
i dont know who this is, this isnt horsemanship, it doesnt seem like it'll do the horse anygood. You'll have to work harder to solve his problems. I dont think its abuse either. This guy was too forceful but thats all. I wouldnt do this to my horse, thats for sure.
samphire87 2 weeks ago
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@samphire87 "i dont know who this is, this isnt horsemanship, it doesnt seem like it'll do the horse anygood. You'll have to work harder to solve his problems. I dont think its abuse either. This guy was too forceful but thats all. I wouldnt do this to my horse, thats for sure." I agree with everything you wrote. Not abuse, but poor horsemanship. Unnecessarily forceful and there are better ways to deal with headshyness.
fburton8 2 weeks ago
It's a stallion, they are not easy. And they can be very dangerous to the people who are watching, too. Maybe in their place that horse is an angel, but with all that public and music and new arena the horse got a little nervous. Pat may be able to do all what he was going to show when the horse is quite and relaxed, but he wasn't relaxed at that moment. And, as I told you, a nervous stallion can be dangerous. He did well when he tried to catch the horse, but it wasn't easy...
leyluchy1 3 weeks ago
That is not abuse. Sometimes Horses need to know who is boss, and sometimes you need force and pressure on them. People expect horsemanship to be all loveydovey and pretty, That is not always the case.
ShandyHorse 3 weeks ago 24
@ShandyHorse Horses need and want to know who is boss, and this is abuse. Ya know how to get a bridle on a horse that doesn't want you within 50 feet of his head? Time. Just time. There was pressure pressure pressure, where was the release? The "cowboy up" types always forget the release part.
Apollostowel 1 week ago
@ShandyHorse a twitch is abuse pure and simple. Sell crazy somewhere else, youtube is all stocked up.
proteus1579 1 day ago
Dinks!!!!!!!!
Mscatbalu 3 weeks ago
He didnt really "abuse" the horse. He made a stupid decision and made himself look like a fool and a hypocrite...but at least he didnt beat the horse until it couldnt move....
QHCWGRL11 3 weeks ago
Thats not horse abuse!!
TheMollydog400 3 weeks ago
neither do i you cant even tell if its really pat parelli
TBBhorsegirl 3 weeks ago
Abused? How? When? I see no abuse what so ever.
brandileeg22 3 weeks ago 2
1080p
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mario
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this video
PonyDenDen 3 weeks ago 2
This is no-way Pat Parelli and Linda just a couple of wannabees lookilikies, the mannerisms and silhouettes are way off if you inspect this blurry poor excuse for a video. I am not sucked in.
xfluffkinx 3 weeks ago
Thank you for letting me know about the "letter" from Pat and I did find it and it explains the whole situation. I'm good with it, but it's too bad that most of the folks commenting have not seen it and I've noticed that a lot of them want to discredit the Parelli program for selfish reasons. I feel sorry for them. The video is a year old and of no consequence. My regret is coming across this video and watching it and reading the comments.
hermosasue 3 weeks ago
This is a very poor, blurry video sent in by someone with an axe to grind. I can't even tell if it's Pat Parelli in the the video and I've met him. Pretty darn hard to tell what's going on except that the horse is difficult. Really now...can you actually see a stud chain or twitch? Parelli never uses that stuff. Next time honey, if you have a vendetta, please show us something we can see not fuzzy images intermixed with accusations. Get a life and stop wasting our time.
hermosasue 3 weeks ago
@hermosasue Don't want to get into a fight but there was a twitch and that is Pat. he later made a statement about the incident.
MedoraCowgirl 3 weeks ago
Looks like an old fashioned "breaking the horse" to me. :/
GreyOwl8 3 weeks ago
if you think this is abuse apparently youve never worked with a wild or stubborn horse let alone a stallion.....when ya do come back and youll realize its not so bad
pitsbyteback 3 weeks ago
What a dick all that just for a demo god I wish the horse had kicked the crap out of him
billboy1616 3 weeks ago
there is no such thing as natural horsemanship! there is nothing natural for a horse to want to be able to be ridden. If he were actually doing "natural horsmanship" then he would have known that grabing at a horses head is a preditorial action!
Ivibibi10 4 weeks ago
I'm a dog rescue person, and not a horse person, but whatever his methods, this video doesn't look like it's working for him. The horse wasn't cooperating at all in my opinion.
rebeccaBGroup 4 weeks ago
i have to confess if you think anything was done wrong here then you are out of luck when it comes to horses. you should look into getting a cat, or a gerbil
Travisk100 4 weeks ago
I like some of pat parellis methods, but some i just ignore. he is an ass hole in person i have heard, but i think people need tp try and adapt what works for them, and the horse best. take some of his methods on board, left some in the dust.
FluffayBootso0 4 weeks ago
pat parelli is so good at teaching! just kidding! i wonder how this ended up... doesnt look very successful of a method. im not saying it was abuse but i mean come on if you are a world known trainer you should be able to handle a stud a little better than that!
downonbladeefarms 4 weeks ago
This is not horse abuse. You have to understand that wild horses, and horses naturally in a herd will be very aggressive. They bite each other, kick, buck, and charge at them. You just sometimes need to use a little aggression. REAL abuse is whipping the horse, jerking hard at a horse's mouth with a harsh bit. NOT putting on a bridle a little aggressively. Did you ever notice how in Parelli's videos his horses follow him like dogs? You've never watched them, have you?
CherubHorse 4 weeks ago
This is in no way abusive.. You need to get strong handed with a horse like this or they will just take advantage of you and/or injure you.
BarrelBabe4797 4 weeks ago
Sometimes we need to assert ourselves in what others deem as abuse. Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them. To witness real and continued abuse/torture of horses, please direct your much needed efforts to the race track industry. Then go do horse shows. Namely gaited horses, then to the Arabians and on and on. It is horrific.
LinHeartsHorses 1 month ago 15
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@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
fburton8 4 weeks ago
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@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
fburton8 4 weeks ago
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@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged that somewhat extreme measures must be taken for safety of the people around them." Please could you tell me where I can find this video?
fburton8 4 weeks ago
@LinHeartsHorses We have gaited horses and they are not abused... Some do practice soreing yes but we dont believe in it. A good gaited horse will have a smooth natural gait. Its not the breed of horse its people. Also my horses are shod no differently than a quarter horse and still preform their natural smooth gait.
MsCrazyhorselady 3 weeks ago
not every horse responds to "love, and persistance" some horses you just gotta say; do it NOW, otherwise they'll never learn, others DO need patience, just depends on the horse i guess..
LCSimberto 1 week ago
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy"." I just watched it and am totally unimpressed. In the time he spent talking and upsetting the horse with leg ropes, someone *could* have got the mare accepting a needle in the vein (not just in the neck muscle, duh!). Pat obviously hasn't heard of counter-conditioning, or doesn't understand it. This technique should have been tried with Catwalk too and saved all this undignified messing about.
fburton8 1 week ago
@LinHeartsHorses "Pat made a video called "needle shy". It gives a detailed description of what is necessary with a prey animal so damaged" The appalling thing about this video is the way Pat talks a perfectly ordinary horse up into some kind of Level 4 disturbed individual. (Pat loves his levels, doesn't he?) For crying out loud the mare was needle-shy, not a monster! Then he uses this to convince people that "somewhat extreme measures must be taken". B*llshit!
fburton8 1 week ago
@LinHeartsHorses that was not safety, that was horse abuse
figarodapony 1 week ago
@LinHeartsHorses Gaited horses aren't abused. Really? How about polo horses getting smacked in the legs? Or jumpers coming down off a jump? Every discipline has its downfalls. My horses are treated wonderfully. Please. Attend one of my horse shows, then shove your foot in your mouth. Thanks.
kadytess 5 days ago
@kadytess Please don't assume everyone in the gaited industry is a saint. I've SEEN the hot mustard and whipping chains put on gaited horses. That's more abuse than any jumper goes through. I won't defend polo, as I consider it dangerous and cruel.
Nitrostreak 4 days ago
@Nitrostreak Yeah. Understandably so. But it isn't necessary for people to assume that we're all out there beating our horses in the gaited world. Any industry you go into you'll find people doing some f*cked up stuff to horses.
kadytess 3 days ago
This video not very authentic, we can't hear what Pat Parelli said and you can write what you want... The Quality is bad too. We don't know the situation. I don't think it's abuse... I think Parelli is a good natural Trainer ;-) Everybody can think about how to work with his horse. I work natural, but not only parelli, I use the best things of many trainers (best for me and my horse)
Sylvie1982 1 month ago
Eventingnation you are a dumb bitch i bet your one of those "parelli" people that make your horse back up after every little thing. Like Elkeleigh said you have to be bigger than the horse scotch hobble is a good way to do that and make them know your the boss. you see Parelli do all these things with horses but when you have horses that are asses you need to be in control. some day you'll get rid of your horse because its "bad" when really your the irresponsible owner that let it walk over you.
laxanimal18 1 month ago
@laxanimal18 "Like Elkeleigh said you have to be bigger than the horse scotch hobble is a good way to do that and make them know your the boss." Look for YouTube video "one leg hobble" by MrCaitihoch to see hobble being used in example of superb natural horsemanship. Would Parelli be prideful of this?!
fburton8 1 month ago
@BoldHollis The "irresponsible" owner is Robert Whitaker. It is not untrained or unhandled, it's the stupid handlers. So get a life you saddo and do some research.
chloecindy99 1 month ago
Why is a horse this scared and aggressive still a stallion? Who is the irresponsible owner that has not gelded this horse? Maybe the methods could be questioned but the simple fact is that an unhandled, untrained stallion will eventually hurt someone.
BoldHollis 1 month ago
this isnt horse cruelty , its called 'training' , sometimes a horse dosent respond to natrual trianing tecniques so you need to be a little more agressive. Especially with a two thousand pound stallion that could easily trample you. But with the twitch & the rope around his legs, pat can control the stallion. This is why people under 15 cant handle a stallion ..
iluvhorsies1 1 month ago
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
LesRadley100 1 month ago
@LesRadley100 your a fucking retard
laxanimal18 1 month ago
I sort of get that he wants to make money doing clinics and stuff, but IMO a horse who has trust issues should be trained over a period of time in a "safe" environment not be hauled of to participate in a clinic in front of full bleechers with the added pressure for the trainer to "produce" in two hours or less.
swedishmaggie 1 month ago 22
come on you are the most stupid person ever!! he was doing what the horse needed and i know some people wont see that but if you kept watching after about 10 minutes that horse was carm and relaxed.
teaglestargirl 1 month ago
I don't particularly like the rope around the leg (I mean, whats up with that!?) But I've watched one of his shows before. I don't find him to be abusive. It's my opinion that he was having a bad day and should have stopped. Normally I would not expect this out of him. As this is the only evidence I've found of him not using good method, I'm going to give him benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong, I won't argue, but that's my thoughts.
HowlerOne 1 month ago
Catwalk was afraid of the bridle, probably because a previous trainer, purposefully or not, hurt him with it
what that horse needed was someone to take the time to train him without agression.
and not to mention he's a stallion. you can say what you like about your horse being gentled, but it's never 100% and ESPECIALLY not if you're talking about a stallion.
Catwalk looks like a good horse, but training away fear needs much more time (and brains) than parelli seems capable of here.
RunSplashRun 1 month ago
who ever said this is abuse needs to open there eyes I have been around the world with horse from the ranch to the race track to the back woods of NWT, I have meet man around the work that belive you need to smack the head down with a bord to make them smeat so plse dont think you know everthing just keep you mouth shut and lean what you need and want.
rednickfromhell 1 month ago
Trying to cram learning! All for show... that horse deserved better...stallion or not... he deserved leadership instead of whatever that was called... a flashy show for the audience I guess... DISLIKE...
JoyceLeeLifeCoach 1 month ago
@gradyblade actually yes, and yes you need to be on your guard and may sometimes have to put a bit more pressure on in the horse gets in your space, but the horse can read body-language like a book. This is supposed to be a man who works kindly and 'naturally' with horses. this is not kind, or natural, horses do not pin eachother's heads to the floor, and if you spent time with horses you would notice they very VERY rarely make contact, it is all with body language and gestures.
rae14eva 1 month ago
@squeenie82 you're so right! totally agree
Atlantika26 1 month ago
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Atlantika26 1 month ago
If you really understood equine in any shape form or fashion you wouldn't be as judgemental. This video seems to consist of a 1200lbs stallion who is unwilling to comply with trainers request. Question for you, " How many horses have you sucessfully trained. Have you ever been in the presence of an untrained staillion? Don't judge a man until you walked a mile in his moccasins.
gradyblade 1 month ago
@gradyblade "Have you ever been in the presence of an untrained staillion?" What exactly do you mean by "an untrained stallion"?
fburton8 1 month ago
Part of the problem is trying to cram all the training into the constraints of the time allotted. I work with a lot of horses and each horse has its own time table. The modern clinicians all use the same basic principles. They have their own techniques. The problem is not everyone is the same as the clinician. It's equally important to learn as much as possible and apply the techniques as they suit your personality. However, also learn to recognize when it's time to take a break.
imfooked 1 month ago
i honestly dont see any "abuse" here. granted i never really thought a "natural horsemanship" trainer would use these techniques so i guess i can see where some of you are coming from. take into consideration though that stallions can be dangerous if not trained/handled right. either this horse has been abused in the past and is head shy or its an ill mannered stud who has gotten away with things so now he knows he can get away with it. and he needs to know his limits.
horses4life16 1 month ago 2
I own and work with stallions every day and have never had to use that type of restraint........That is also a type of running W that should be outlawed, very stupid!
mountainmamma57 1 month ago
@mountainmamma57 Running W ???you have no idea what that is if you think this is a form of running W shown here.
mlposten 1 month ago
well the horse he is dealing with is a stallion you guys have to rember this before you jump to conlcusions!
horselover0730 1 month ago
I have never bought into the whole "natural horse training" crap. Thing is, this guy SELLS "NHTC" and then uses methods that are NOT in line with his own methods? That is never ok. Furthermore, as someone who has trained many and understands that horses dont fart rainbows and could kill me, I think what he did here was stupid. He put a horse that could not go in front of a crowd and "get fixed in an hour" in a bad situation. He kept the horse in that situation because of his ego.
Skinfaxi 1 month ago
Wow, the Parelli nuts are still out there. Let me guess, you all pay for all those high dollar training aids like the great "Carrot Stick"? LOL
Try learning from real horse people like Craig Cameron or Clinton Anderson and there are many more.
cbtaken 1 month ago
@cbtaken Awkward moment when Clinton Anderson was a former Parelli student taught by Pat Parelli himself.
emaieoghanahally 1 month ago
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DarksideArabians 1 month ago
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DarksideArabians 1 month ago
The simple fact is, most horses dislike the very fact that you're taking them out of the paddock, let alone asking them to do something they're not sure of and never done before in a strange arena in front of a bunch of people.
Pat did OK with this horse and I'd love a chance to watch the man in action, I think he'd know more about what was going on inside that horse's mind then the person taking the video. Other wise they would be out there showing what to do and pat would be in the stand.
chance666ify 1 month ago 2
@chance666ify "The simple fact is, most horses dislike the very fact that you're taking them out of the paddock" Does that include Parelli-trained horses? ;-)
fburton8 1 month ago
@fburton8 WTF ARE YOU ASKING ME FOR???? Ask the expert himself dickhead. All I see here is wanna-be's critising, if you were so damned talented with horses, we'd be paying all of you to see the wisdom, but nooooooo, you just sit on the side lines and bitch! GET OUT THERE AND DO YOUR OWN VIDEOS if you know so much more than he does then put your money where your mouth is. It's really easy to piss and moan when you don't have to back it up with video proof. So get out there and back it up.
chance666ify 1 month ago
@chance666ify "WTF..." There is absolutely no need to be so rude. Having worked with stallions (some quite aggressive - which Catwalk was not!) and helped headshy horses, I'd be happy to work with a headshy stallion if the opportunity arose and even video the process. I don't think it would be as "exciting" as this video though!
fburton8 1 month ago
@fburton8 So rude hey? If I was trying to be rude, I wouldn’t have abbreviated it to WTF now would I? I would have plain out said, WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!
chance666ify 1 month ago
@chance666ify "WTF ARE YOU ASKING ME FOR????" It was a rhetorical question. ;-)
fburton8 1 month ago
It isn't so much that he is using the techniques they show, its is the fact that he claims to be a "natural horseman". The techniques shown are not based on "a holistic approach to natural horse training based on developing a natural relationship with your horse through understanding his/her nature and understanding the world from the horse's point of view" . If you ask me, he wasn't understanding anything that horse was telling him.
6tturner 1 month ago
I may not be an expert when it comes to horses, but fact is that this horse CLEARLY dislikes what is done with him. Whatever that man is respected by others, these methods are nothing natural.
If that was my horse and someone would treat it that way, I would give them a good beating, regardless of what so many fans think about him and his methods. :/
xXDemonS0ulXx 1 month ago
Hey folks with nasty comments, How many unfamiliar horses do you handle in a year? Many horses are outright dangerous and sometimes "keeping it natural" doesn't fly. This horse was probably at that clinic because it was already way out of hand.
farrier616 1 month ago
Especially me!!
morganlovehorses 1 month ago
@jessejamesgirl your right horse training doesn't always go how you want and to Rhodes of you bad talking parelli SHUT UP NOBODY GIVES A SH** es
morganlovehorses 1 month ago
You can't rush with horses you have to tae your time while training and not force them to do what you like but listen and wait till they are ready and show they are ready to move onto the next step in training. I don't like pat I've always thought of him as fake and he's just in it for money and fame not in it for the horses.
breanneburtch 1 month ago
a good trainer would never have to resort to such force if they new how to properly train and knew all horses learn and respond differently and not all horses will accept say having there ears and face handled in such a short time. All depends on the horse. I've trained horses from unhandled and have had some within 3 months were already started under saddle and were fine being touched all over etc and others that took almost a year before I felt they were ready to back.
breanneburtch 1 month ago
0:27 ....... GOOD BOY CATWALK!!!!!!!
horseluver832 1 month ago
Poor Catwalk...
horseluver832 1 month ago
He's a phony, always was.
Cosmosdh 1 month ago
omg horse training isnt alway pretty. its not always fluff anf butterflys.
jessejamesgirl 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jessejamesgirl "mg horse training isnt alway pretty. its not always fluff anf butterflys." However, I contend that the best horse training always looks calm and *quiet*.
fburton8 1 month ago
I don't quite understand what he was trying to do in the beginning when he was leading the horse, it looked like he was flicking the lead rope at the horse, I don't get that part.
It may have been a better idea to close the lesson down and let the horse get some time off rather than keep nagging him, sometimes just easier to walk away from a frustrated and tense horse.
jimmybee49 1 month ago
There is no such thing as "natural" horse training. I am not a Parelli person. I have worked with a lot of stallions and if you do not match their aggression you will get hurt. This was in no way abuse. Sometimes you have to behave like a horse and if you have ever watched horses interact they are very aggressive with eachother and as a horse trainer sometimes you have to be aggressive. That is just the way it is. If you think you can just pet them into submission you are wrong!
elkeleigh 1 month ago 30
@elkeleigh you don't need to have the horses submit to you to be able to ride them/work with them, check out Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling videos, I went to a Parelli 3 day work shop as well and didn't make it to day number 3, I was disappointed and upset and no longer a Parelli method follower. I wish I would have taken some videos myself of what I saw.
squeenie82 1 month ago
@elkeleigh Horses aggress differently to the way Parelli is now. They very rarely actually injure each other. They have adapted to read gestures and avoid conflict before any contact is made as the consequences of a physical fight can be very bad. Like all animals horses need firm handling but to frighten or hurt an animal into submission actually makes it more dangerous in the long term as it becomes fearful, but usually have learnt not to show that fear.
AmalamCooper 1 month ago
@AmalamCooper " They very rarely actually injure each other." hmmm and how many people have treated a horse for bite or kick injuries? or even injuries to a horse that has been chased and caused injury?
mlposten 1 month ago
All of you that says this is cruel are IDIOTS!!! get rid of your horses before you get hurt becasue you dont know what the fuck your doing. please do the world a favor
laxanimal18 1 month ago
@elkeleigh amen! im more of a clinton anderson person myself cause he works more in baby steps that the horse can understand but sometimes you have to buck up and get your horse to respect you, its the same thing with the parents who never want to discipline their kids! however i can see a million different ways to get this horse to accept the bridle
flyingchangeequine91 1 month ago
@elkeleigh SO TRUE!
DiamondDelight1 3 weeks ago
If anyone thinks that this is the way to "establish" dominance and to show the horse who is the alpha, read Mark Rashid.
acheval666 1 month ago
I'm guessing all of you who bad mouth are stallion experts? I've seen people do this and it work just fine, remember he's working with a STALLION 1,000 plus pounds of pure testosterone, he's wired for one thing and one thing only.. What I see is Pat showing the horse that he (Pat) is the boss you will not walk over me, you will listen because I am the alpha male... think on that before you bad mouth someone
cowgirlonup 1 month ago
IMHO everyone keeps focusing on dominance here. Or the horse was frightened. Natural horsemanship is not all about dominance. But in this case this was a learned behavior that may have started with fear or pain. Now it has become habitual and avoidance issues. What I believe was being done is interrupting the pattern. Some horses you can be light and use other methods others need tougher methods. The goal is causing balance when extremes in the horse's behavior.
mlposten 1 month ago
in nature horses like this 1 are known as the alpha horses, so in order for this horse to become a partner, he probably needed to have some force applied. i dont see anything wrong with how pat is handling it. som horses just ned an extra push. nature also includes showing the animal whos boss. i dnt se pat hurting the horse. i se pat showing the horse that he wont b pushed around and he demands respect. theres nothing abusive about that, and if u think it is then ur horse wil walk all over u.
ThunderKathryn 1 month ago
a twich can make them sleepy not hurt them. you have to show the horse you are the alfa male or matriark mare. do u understand natural-horsemanship?????? u have to be the boss and not get trampled on but a horse! think! not every horse can be fixed..... just think bout th for a bit.
kezzy2318 1 month ago
you obiously dont know anything about horses if you think that was abuse wow im surprized at your stupidity dumbass
MegaInulover 1 month ago
The horse's reaction tells it all. People here defending what the man is doing is on the human perspective which is not natural for the horse at all because the horse is the nature itself!!! Thanks for the upload.
acheval666 1 month ago
You need to learn somewhat the methods Parelli uses. He absolutely believes in Natural Horsemanship..however, you'll see in your video, or the stuff that you show anyway, that he never whips it, uses brute force, but if you think that he could have quieted down a horse by loving it at that point, you're wrong. Stallions are also just like mustangs and unless worked with can be violent. He could have thought other violence could have ensued. It's too bad he was used as an example horse however.
fluffy762002 1 month ago 6
It's a 1,400lb animal. Not to mention - a stallion. Sometimes you have to take the more direct method. Kindly asking, and requesting a horse that other people have already messed up, to do something; isn't going to always work. If this horse was green and had no previous experience and was acting this way, then ya that wouldn't be the best way to go about working with it. But the reality is that he had all of those bad habits set in his mind, and he needed a firmer request.
EquitationChampion 1 month ago 2
I agree. Monty wouldn't have an issue fixing this horse.
FromWishingDreams 1 month ago
These two clearly need to see the Master at work! Monty Roberts.....show them how to do it properly!... Check this out on Youtube:- Hello, Monty Roberts Centaur!
mojomeil 1 month ago
@mojomeil I've seen Monty - I think he might be worse - I was appauled - as were quite a few other people there - whom I did not know - some of us walked out!
L7L77L 1 month ago
this is roberts whitakers horse were talking about here, i highly doubt that it needs training.
hollieandizzy 1 month ago
there thre sides to every story: mine yours and then theres the truth.
hollieandizzy 1 month ago
twitches may sound nasty but actually release endorphins which calm the horse, this is far more natural than drugs/dope.
Peaka01 1 month ago 19
@Peaka01 why would they need to drug or dope this horse?, he wasn't being bad at all, the Parelli's just don't get that all methods don't work on all horses and this horse needed more time than they gave him, they obviously don't understand horse body language at all.
squeenie82 1 month ago
@Peaka01 can you show me an article where this has been proven? not being sarcastic but if something is stated as a fact there has to have been research done on it or it is just an opinion.
I am not commenting on the right or wrong of what he did either.
cazyhorseworld 1 month ago
@Peaka01 but still , have you ever met a horse that have been twiched once , that wants to be twiched again ?
thecowgirlandherhors 1 month ago
Natural horsemanship is natural..all i im going to say is pat can take that twich and shove it up his ass!
jynquo 1 month ago
You all who think this is abuse are full of shit, your fucking stupid. Don't judge the guy. Get off your fucking lazy worthless ass's and do that with a horse.
11huggiebear 1 month ago
@11huggiebear Well,it is abusive from the horses perspective.I've been around horses all my life & have been working with them professionally for about 40 years.I've seen just about everything people do with& to horses & have worked with MANY troubled horses,damaged by humans 'showing the horse who's boss' In this case the demeanor behind the use of the tools was most harmful & reflected back onto an already unsure horse and thus escalated.To a horse attitude and really small things are huge.
L7L77L 1 month ago
Part 3)The Parelli's being who/what they tout themselves to be, should have turned that situation into a positive learning experience for both the horse & the audience by offering and demonstrating good/positive training information & skills that offered comfort, leadership and wellbeing for the horse.Less rather than more, perhaps. No horse should have to endure that kind of handling. He will never forget it.
L7L77L 1 month ago
..i thought in natural horsemenship you dont use and thiing like ropes to control or twitches..let alone tie the horses leg basicaly
RAPPIEMYBABY 1 month ago
i want to give this little fucker a piece of my mind! he shouldnt of done that, he should of been working on it a little bit every day!
SimplyAmbers 1 month ago
Part2) In continuation of my previous post. Perhaps the horse should not have been at liberty the entire time as I mentioned as that is not always appropriate, I was feeling his need to get away from them! None the less the Parelli's should have been preparing the horse for what they wanted as opposed to forcing something on a it. I've learned most horses rarely resist without just cause and I think he was just not ready for what ever reason and was expressing himself.
L7L77L 1 month ago
I don't care what you call it-it's BS! This horse should have had the choice to leave - he should have been at liberty the entire time - until he was ready to be with the people - never mind trying to put a bridle on him! It was all forced - The poor horse was stressed - it was human error and a good example of why many horses wind up the way they do - note the snowball effect from start to finish.I have rehabed many horses who have been 'trained' in this fashion.No regard for the horse...
L7L77L 1 month ago
i have a horse who is 9 and a bit green . he can be very anxious and yes i hit him some times but you have to do this. it shows horses they cant be in control of you.. but i agree horse abuse is terrible and maybe this guy should have givin the horse a break obviously the thing is scared. thats when you need to show it love. this video is wrong but i see where disoplin is needed
546horselover 1 month ago