I enjoyed seeing the passion from Ella. I am a hearing student interpreter. I try to share similiar opinions to my hearing family and their lack of understanding makes me feel frustrated also.
@TheASLFire I was not trying to test you, I wanted to know your "meaning" of anti-oralism. That is all. Do not be paranoid. I do not know you that well and do not know if you are againse deaf people who speaks orally or what.
Just in case you did not know what ASLElla meant when she closed her vlog (in her words) with a "hearing idiom", "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".
This idiom means you can offer something to someone, like good advice, but you cannot make them take it.
your interpretation of that quote is fine. I'm curious, if you understood what I mean, why did you volunteer to "explain" it? I don't see anybody asking me what that last part meant? I'm fully capable of handling the clarification WHENEVER ITS ASKED FOR. Don't assume. Practically all Deaf people are bilingual, didn't you realize that? Thanks for your BENEVOLENT concern, but please no masks.
You talk a lot about doing away with hearing stuff, language, and more.
Try doing the same with the idiom you ended your vlog with. Try using Deaf Idiom, after all, Idiom is a natural manner of speaking to a native speaker of a language (idiomSite). I encourage you to use Deaf Idiom to ASL users. They will understand it better. If there is none, then create one. No more idioms created by hearing people
"doing away with hearing stuff, language and more"?? where did you get that? Maybe time for you to study what Oralism and its various disguises is really about and learn more about what Deaf bilingualism is about?
That is the impression I get from pro-deafhood supporters. I know what Deaf bilingualism is about, and I support it. I also support Oral Education as well. The parents get to choose what is best for their children. I prefer Bi-Bi Education.
I am not sure what you mean by "Oralism and its various disguises".
It seems many of you talk of doing away with what hearing have tried to do to help.
I just will not practice "Hate Speech" against those Oralism.
How can you "prefer" Bilingualism if you insisted that I do away with it in my vlogs? Quite a contradiction, don't you think?
"pro-Deafhood supporters"? again, where did you get that?
"those Oralism"???? you referring to the hearing people exploiting and dividing up Deaf people in name of Oralism? or Deaf people who grew up believing Oralism save them from the stigma of being Deaf? Im confused. I've always been clear about the distinction. Are you?
I think you should do away with the "idioms" created by hearing people. Create your own Deaf Idiom, besides "lead horse to water..." because it contradict your speech about "SEE" as mess up ASL or something like that. Hearing created the SEE, you wanted to do away with "SEE". I was pointing out your contradictions. You do confuse me, you say this, but you quote hearing people. I encourage you to come up with your own quotation, by a Deaf person. (cont....)
Just do away with the things hearing taught you such as "idiom" since you want to do away with "SEE". That is not asking you to do away with BI.
I rather you stop speaking against Oralism, SEE, and just focus on BI-BI and educate others about your views on Deafhood without the personal attacks and praising those who attack others who do not agree. That will lessen the resistance from others against DH.
I feel sad when I read your comments. I know you meant well, but really seems to me there's not much I can say more that will help you to say that you do get what is really happening out there. I've led you to the water, but you are not drinking it, so....
I also feel sad that you seem so worried and afraid to denounce Oralism and its NEGATIVE and DESTRUCTIVE impact on you, me and all Deaf people.
BTW, the horse &water concept is universal...it doesn't "belong" to hearing people only.
yes I will love to have time to talk with you after the workshop. Cross fingers.
you are correct "we are not quite on the same page" and it's due to the Oralism colonialism upon us for 130 years.
Yes, you AND me AND those "offensive pro-dh warriors" are "results of Oralism", like it or not. Oralism results in divisions that we see. We need to stop that. We need to be FIRM and loving, AND keep pointing out (and weeding out) the ROOT of our oppression, and it is Oralism. Painful, yes.
smile, BBF. Remember your enjoying TEA is result of painful and awful colonialism and oppression and exploitation of Indian people by the British. Britian wanted the wonderful and CHEAP tea from India and sweetened some leaders there to dress British, and be schooled, and that created awful divisions. Indian folks finally broke free and it was painful, bloody, transforming, and they re STILL healing from it. Deaf folks now realizing & getting ready for the real pain and joy of liberation.
Oralism isn't good -- look at your old school -- we had a lot of oral failures there.. Only very very very few of them were successful and now I would say almost ALL of these deaf people use sign langauge today.
@deafmommy Hello, I remember my old school. Those that could not speak well,
Ms. Chambers and that student's parent confer and decided that Total Communication ( [TC] Oral and Sign Language school) was best for that student. She allowed them to leave full Oral school. Some student's parent prefer CSDB and Ms.Chamber prefer not, but allow that. My friend Matthew I. can't speak well, Ms. Chambers wants to send him to TC school, but his stupid mom refuse. Now he still can't talk and can't sign....
@deafmommy There were not "a lot of failures" there. Just encouraging them to learn via Oral, and see which can adapt and which cannot adapt. Then, those that are not able to adapt, find out why, follow up etc, if still cannot adapt, then change schools. Those that were not able to speak well were and are NOT FAILURES. They now adapt to whatever they do, like you said, use sign language. Including myself, but i still use Oral as primary language out there. With deaf, I sign. I care.
Yes, it is oralism if you want to talk even if you can not hear your own voice. It is completely without control over yourself. Which life is it? It creates uncertainty and insecurity in the course. I'm sure that some people think is important to be able to read or talk during the press is in wireless communication. Did you know that in the common case of communications we need to think in the meantime. It makes both hearing and deaf people (who are fluent in ASL).
Hearing can be patient and want to make sure the communication (without any misunderstanding) We deaf people are not guilty of more excuses for some of the communication.
@TheStralie With all due respect to you, TheStralie, I do not understand what your point is. Can you use video reply (or forget about it)? My apologies.
@BigBenFactor Remember our old oral school, I can still remember Miss Misun and Mrs. Chambers, they were mean and looked down on deafies. They felt that if a deaf child had good speech, that would mean that this child was intelligent. They sent away children who could not speak well to deaf institution. So I am surprised at you about oralism -- it is destructive and hurts alot of deaf children.
@deafmommy ....and still live with his parents. That was his mom's fault, not Ms. Chambers. Oral did not hurt me. I was blessed. However, I wish I learned ASL sooner. I do not make big deal about it. I have moved on. Do not dwell on past, learn from it and make a difference for the future with a positive attitude. That is the difference between me and "them".
love the part about the bumpy ride and try to keep our eyes on the prize and progressing forward instead of getting derailed
The ASLFire - i think lots of folks have anger when they start waking up and come face to face with the reality of how they have been denied FULL, NATURAL, INALIENABLE rights. We all should be just a wee bit peeved
the challenge is - what do we do with that anger - channel for peaceful and positive activism or keep the griping cycle never ending or engage in crabbing or give in and give up or....
thanks for being so supportive. ought myself very luck to have you as our support system. process is part of learn so I am still learning. Deafhood making me a better person. Yea!!!
ASLFire, I can relate to you. I was able to acquire good English thru my love of reading combined with decent English classes. I felt I missed out a good deal with SEE-based system and fortunately, I was able to self educate myself. My academic explosion came when I entered college with strong ASL interpreters.
I am doing this is because I learn rich education thru ASL. I do not learn education thru SEE. Thanks for educate about get together to talk about different issues. And also thanks for the tip about detour. The last part you quoted is a great quote!
It is because I missed a lot of education is because of Sign Exact English. It made me mad for not able to get education thru American Sign Language. S.E.E. destroyed my process of learning education.
I enjoyed seeing the passion from Ella. I am a hearing student interpreter. I try to share similiar opinions to my hearing family and their lack of understanding makes me feel frustrated also.
jcalderw1 1 year ago
Ella, YES we should have a conference on deafhood, I would definitely go!!! That is a good idea!
deafmommy 1 year ago
@BigBenFactor, Answer is C,... Good try to test me.
TheASLFire 1 year ago
@TheASLFire I was not trying to test you, I wanted to know your "meaning" of anti-oralism. That is all. Do not be paranoid. I do not know you that well and do not know if you are againse deaf people who speaks orally or what.
That is all. Take care.
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@Everyone,
Just in case you did not know what ASLElla meant when she closed her vlog (in her words) with a "hearing idiom", "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".
This idiom means you can offer something to someone, like good advice, but you cannot make them take it.
Right ASLElla?
BBF
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
BigBenFactor,
your interpretation of that quote is fine. I'm curious, if you understood what I mean, why did you volunteer to "explain" it? I don't see anybody asking me what that last part meant? I'm fully capable of handling the clarification WHENEVER ITS ASKED FOR. Don't assume. Practically all Deaf people are bilingual, didn't you realize that? Thanks for your BENEVOLENT concern, but please no masks.
ASLElla 1 year ago
@ASLElla,
You talk a lot about doing away with hearing stuff, language, and more.
Try doing the same with the idiom you ended your vlog with. Try using Deaf Idiom, after all, Idiom is a natural manner of speaking to a native speaker of a language (idiomSite). I encourage you to use Deaf Idiom to ASL users. They will understand it better. If there is none, then create one. No more idioms created by hearing people
(SEE, Oralism, Idioms [hearing]).
You can do it.
BBF
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
BBF,
"doing away with hearing stuff, language and more"?? where did you get that? Maybe time for you to study what Oralism and its various disguises is really about and learn more about what Deaf bilingualism is about?
ASLElla 1 year ago
ASLElla,
That is the impression I get from pro-deafhood supporters. I know what Deaf bilingualism is about, and I support it. I also support Oral Education as well. The parents get to choose what is best for their children. I prefer Bi-Bi Education.
I am not sure what you mean by "Oralism and its various disguises".
It seems many of you talk of doing away with what hearing have tried to do to help.
I just will not practice "Hate Speech" against those Oralism.
Have a good week.
BBF
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
How can you "prefer" Bilingualism if you insisted that I do away with it in my vlogs? Quite a contradiction, don't you think?
"pro-Deafhood supporters"? again, where did you get that?
"those Oralism"???? you referring to the hearing people exploiting and dividing up Deaf people in name of Oralism? or Deaf people who grew up believing Oralism save them from the stigma of being Deaf? Im confused. I've always been clear about the distinction. Are you?
ASLElla 1 year ago
I think you should do away with the "idioms" created by hearing people. Create your own Deaf Idiom, besides "lead horse to water..." because it contradict your speech about "SEE" as mess up ASL or something like that. Hearing created the SEE, you wanted to do away with "SEE". I was pointing out your contradictions. You do confuse me, you say this, but you quote hearing people. I encourage you to come up with your own quotation, by a Deaf person. (cont....)
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
(...con;t)
I did not ask you to do away with Bilingualism.
Just do away with the things hearing taught you such as "idiom" since you want to do away with "SEE". That is not asking you to do away with BI.
I rather you stop speaking against Oralism, SEE, and just focus on BI-BI and educate others about your views on Deafhood without the personal attacks and praising those who attack others who do not agree. That will lessen the resistance from others against DH.
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
BBF,
I feel sad when I read your comments. I know you meant well, but really seems to me there's not much I can say more that will help you to say that you do get what is really happening out there. I've led you to the water, but you are not drinking it, so....
I also feel sad that you seem so worried and afraid to denounce Oralism and its NEGATIVE and DESTRUCTIVE impact on you, me and all Deaf people.
BTW, the horse &water concept is universal...it doesn't "belong" to hearing people only.
ASLElla 1 year ago
I think you are sad because we are not quite on the same page. Maybe when you get here for the DH workshop, if there is time, we may have a chat.
I cannot be quick to denounce what worked for me. That would premature. I am not convince.
You said, "...Oralism and its NEGATIVE and DESTRUCTIVE impace on me". Is this how you view me? I am result of Oralism.
Remember what I just comment earlier, pro-dh are causing me to be resistance to listening to them with war-like words and actions.
(cont)
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
dear BBF,
yes I will love to have time to talk with you after the workshop. Cross fingers.
you are correct "we are not quite on the same page" and it's due to the Oralism colonialism upon us for 130 years.
Yes, you AND me AND those "offensive pro-dh warriors" are "results of Oralism", like it or not. Oralism results in divisions that we see. We need to stop that. We need to be FIRM and loving, AND keep pointing out (and weeding out) the ROOT of our oppression, and it is Oralism. Painful, yes.
ASLElla 1 year ago
(cont)
That is sad. I did not see it that way. They were nice to me. I never had my hands slapped by Deaf Educators during speech therapy. I was not abused.
Regardless. I have my own Deafhood journey. My experience are my own.
By the way, I am drinking TEA, If only you could understand what the horse really wanted.
Fresh Brewed -sugar free- TEA. :)
I like ya.
BBF
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
smile, BBF. Remember your enjoying TEA is result of painful and awful colonialism and oppression and exploitation of Indian people by the British. Britian wanted the wonderful and CHEAP tea from India and sweetened some leaders there to dress British, and be schooled, and that created awful divisions. Indian folks finally broke free and it was painful, bloody, transforming, and they re STILL healing from it. Deaf folks now realizing & getting ready for the real pain and joy of liberation.
ASLElla 1 year ago
good grief. :)
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@BigBenFactor, a great darn for you... I am an Anti-Oralism. I am also an Anti-SEE. I am an Anti-Cochlear Kids too.
TheASLFire 1 year ago
@TheASLFire,
clarify anti-oralism.
A-against Deaf who speaks orally.
B-against Deaf who speaks orally and signing.
C-against oral method of education only.
D- you define it____________________________.
Thanks.
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@BigBenFactor
Oralism isn't good -- look at your old school -- we had a lot of oral failures there.. Only very very very few of them were successful and now I would say almost ALL of these deaf people use sign langauge today.
deafmommy 1 year ago
@deafmommy Hello, I remember my old school. Those that could not speak well,
Ms. Chambers and that student's parent confer and decided that Total Communication ( [TC] Oral and Sign Language school) was best for that student. She allowed them to leave full Oral school. Some student's parent prefer CSDB and Ms.Chamber prefer not, but allow that. My friend Matthew I. can't speak well, Ms. Chambers wants to send him to TC school, but his stupid mom refuse. Now he still can't talk and can't sign....
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@deafmommy There were not "a lot of failures" there. Just encouraging them to learn via Oral, and see which can adapt and which cannot adapt. Then, those that are not able to adapt, find out why, follow up etc, if still cannot adapt, then change schools. Those that were not able to speak well were and are NOT FAILURES. They now adapt to whatever they do, like you said, use sign language. Including myself, but i still use Oral as primary language out there. With deaf, I sign. I care.
Hugs.
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@BigBenFactor
Yes, it is oralism if you want to talk even if you can not hear your own voice. It is completely without control over yourself. Which life is it? It creates uncertainty and insecurity in the course. I'm sure that some people think is important to be able to read or talk during the press is in wireless communication. Did you know that in the common case of communications we need to think in the meantime. It makes both hearing and deaf people (who are fluent in ASL).
TheStralie 1 year ago
@TheStralie '
Hearing can be patient and want to make sure the communication (without any misunderstanding) We deaf people are not guilty of more excuses for some of the communication.
TheStralie 1 year ago
@TheStralie With all due respect to you, TheStralie, I do not understand what your point is. Can you use video reply (or forget about it)? My apologies.
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
@BigBenFactor Remember our old oral school, I can still remember Miss Misun and Mrs. Chambers, they were mean and looked down on deafies. They felt that if a deaf child had good speech, that would mean that this child was intelligent. They sent away children who could not speak well to deaf institution. So I am surprised at you about oralism -- it is destructive and hurts alot of deaf children.
deafmommy 1 year ago
@deafmommy ....and still live with his parents. That was his mom's fault, not Ms. Chambers. Oral did not hurt me. I was blessed. However, I wish I learned ASL sooner. I do not make big deal about it. I have moved on. Do not dwell on past, learn from it and make a difference for the future with a positive attitude. That is the difference between me and "them".
BigBenFactor 1 year ago
Wow - ella great vlog reply
love the part about the bumpy ride and try to keep our eyes on the prize and progressing forward instead of getting derailed
The ASLFire - i think lots of folks have anger when they start waking up and come face to face with the reality of how they have been denied FULL, NATURAL, INALIENABLE rights. We all should be just a wee bit peeved
pdurr 1 year ago
pdurr continued -
the challenge is - what do we do with that anger - channel for peaceful and positive activism or keep the griping cycle never ending or engage in crabbing or give in and give up or....
pdurr 1 year ago
thanks for being so supportive. ought myself very luck to have you as our support system. process is part of learn so I am still learning. Deafhood making me a better person. Yea!!!
TheASLFire 1 year ago
@TheASLFire
: )
be well and safe journey
peace
patti
pdurr 1 year ago
gandhi!
TheASLFire 1 year ago
ASLFire, I can relate to you. I was able to acquire good English thru my love of reading combined with decent English classes. I felt I missed out a good deal with SEE-based system and fortunately, I was able to self educate myself. My academic explosion came when I entered college with strong ASL interpreters.
DeafArch 1 year ago
I am doing this is because I learn rich education thru ASL. I do not learn education thru SEE. Thanks for educate about get together to talk about different issues. And also thanks for the tip about detour. The last part you quoted is a great quote!
TheASLFire 1 year ago
I want to correct one thing. I mean "I was not able to learn education thru SEE"
TheASLFire 1 year ago
It is because I missed a lot of education is because of Sign Exact English. It made me mad for not able to get education thru American Sign Language. S.E.E. destroyed my process of learning education.
TheASLFire 1 year ago