China's authoritarian capitalism a global trend?

[SpiritsBB]

Don't think she knows what she's talking about. Anyone can create theory out of observations. She's as good an author as talking to a few chinese people about their opinions.

[metalgearanarchist]

china is not socialist or communist. under mao they were a degenerated workers state, but after the subsequent capital reform they evolved into a state capitalist regime.

[kmarinas86]

T. Paine goes to Hooters.

K. Marx goes to Hookers.

[TheDesertPunkLaos]

Not quite.Basic human rights violations are stacking up.Re education camps are still pratice and death mobiles are operating in order to be a true develop country they should respect human rights.

[betalover1]

I never hear from a top Chinese leader saying that an country, perhaps except NK, or economy should emulate China.

Few people are saying that the USA should emulate China.

Just accept that China is progressing rather well versus time, not so much versus the West of today.

[davedavedaveannoy1]

The the system that we should use is PURE capitalism. No government restrictions on industry nor business. No barriers no restrictions, although the prices of stuff would increase, businesses would be lost, and anti-trust would disappear, and enviornmental impacts might increase it would all eventually stabilize. People would still go for the highest quality products so that would be no problem, rages would go up when workers grow outraged, and only the healthiest most efficient would survive.

[jewishwarrior666]

China has development a system that works for them! In the end what does it matter if a system works.

[Packitlikesardines]

The fact is that the communist party deliberately allowed a bulk of the student dissident organizers to escape to the west, based on a premise that they might be useful (given their predominantly high standard of education) to the economy some time in the future. The people that took the largest amount of backlash following the tiananmen massacre was the working class and its union organisers. Mass executions, folks.

[rajasmasala]

ok, I'm sort of seeing the light. I didn't get the China thing in an earlier vid but this vid makes it a lot clearer. Clearly to her the fundamental difference between socialism and capitalism is that the latter is a philosophy that does not care for present social inequality and consequent constrainments. To her the basic, implied counterargument of capitalism is that either the poor deserve to be not as rich or that theirs is the only way. Which is where the shock doctrine comes in.

[rajasmasala]

Ha, I said that like I know what I'm talking about.

[zombiesoiree]

The more I listen to Klein, the more convinced I am that she has no idea what she's talking about when it comes to China. How can China be considered "capitalist" when you effectively have no private property rights vis-a-vis the state? I'm not saying it's pure socialism, either, but she needs more nuance in her arguments.

[McCainBlows]

She means capitalism as an economic money making scheme for the rich and well connected 1% of Chinese elites who control 70% of Chinese wealth to abuse and dominate the global economy for their own profit. It IS capitalism.  And the Chinese capitalists hold much of the debt of the United States at this very moment. Thank you Reagan and Bush!

[maomao667]

@zombiesoiree

Are you fucking retarted ?

What the fuck do you know about China ?

China is not a communist country now.

Private buniness and companys is legeal

in China.

stop critising China because you know nothing about China.

Fucking idiot.

[zombiesoiree]

@maomao

The state has every right to take possession of your property in China. You effectively have no property rights vis-a-vis the state. Chinese tort laws are barely rudimentary as well. So, it's capitalist like, say, fascist Italy was capitalist.

Try to calm down, little patriot. It may help your spelling and let you think more clearly.

[maomao667]

@zombiesoiree

still, your comment shows that you don't know about China.

I was born in China. I have seen so many private companies being run successfully since the Open policy was taken. China's development is on the right way.

Plus, stop fucking comparing China to any fascist country, because China has no intention of invading other countries.

and you are the fucking aggressor to the world.

[zombiesoiree]

China combines capitalist accumulation with the primacy of the state. In that sense, it is comparable with fascist political economy. There were many successful private companies run in fascist, corporatist, and syndicalist systems. The suppression of labor unions in fascist countries and China has made those economies successful.

I know enough about China, but I hardly need to prove that to you. Just being Chinese doesn't make you a "fucking" expert on the history of its political economy.

[maomao667]

@zombiesoiree

Then you should stop saying China is a communist country. Because Communism is oppisite to what China is right now. Thank you

[jingfengchen24]

yes, humanity needs hooters bars to progress to socialism. Most definitely.

[SavageJim01]

Enough w/ the racism. I'm sick of it.

BUT as for China's model workin? Hav u fogotten Tienem square? Where r those people's rights? While China mecantilism is takin all this money & jobs away from the west, Why are the common Chinese citizens not gettin a propper education? ALL of them? Why is there still a HUGE gap between the Chinese rich & the Chinese poor?

If China quit the yaun manipulation & dropped its mecantilst protionist BS, maybe the common Chinese man can actually consume!

[rsaswest]

Naomi Klein rocks.

Johan Norberg is a dweeb.

This is one of my most thoughtful posts.

Hahahaha:)

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: If you have frustrations go and talk with psychiatrist or something, because its pretty obvious that you have some serious issues to handle...

[Puntonghua]

Why is it that people think that the west model is the only sustainable model, and anyone thinking something else is brainwashed ???

[911Gold911]

You know why? because the western mind goes like this. The west thinks that everything that they DO is THE WAY OF DOING IT (As in the ONLY right way of doing it). In eastern nations like CHINA for example, CHINESE look at the things that they do as, IT IS OUR WAY OF DOING IT (Meaning that its just their way of doing it and that their is more than one right way of doing it, different culture comes different outcome). And dont forget the Westerners THINKS very Linear.

[holytodsloan]

Well, people who live in the west have freedom and freedom of speech, nations that do not follow the western model live under authoritarian and totalitarian governments and regimes. Here are some countries that do not follow the western model: Russia, a lot of Middle East countries, a lot of Asian countries, a lot of South American countries and a lot of African countries. In those places as mentioned above... LIFE SUCKS ASS! Now what is your argument mate?

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: Like said, the western model is not the only model... Allot of African countries actually do follow the western model and the suck (big time) because of it. Singapore does not follow the western model and still it's a success. On average people in China are happier than most of western countries according to happy planet index... besides freedom of speech is merely a illusion because if you deny the holocaust you get thrown into jail.

[holytodsloan]

There are very few African nations that do follow the western model and the ones that do are better of like South Africa... the rest if not most of the other African nations are run by Dictators or Islamic rebels, like the Janjaweed. Freedom of speech allows the people to talk shit about are politicians, protest and swear our asses off and what ever else, however if sedition has been breached then that is not acceptable. [continue in next comment...running out of space]

[holytodsloan]

Sedition is when a person or persons try to break or destroy our society or put others in harms way, for example: a terrorist who talks on the internet about blowing up the subway and killing people, that will not be tolerated because it is putting peoples lives at rick...so that kind of freedom of speech is not allowed. What you got to say about that bitch?

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: Freedom of speech huh... are you talking about the same western model of colonisation, genocide, robbing, slavery, raping, invading countries under false pretences, are did conveniently forgot about that part ???...

[holytodsloan]

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with colonization, genocide, robbing, slavery, raping and invading countries under false pretenses. The western model is judged by the way it treats it's own people and remember we live in the 21st century where colonization is dead. The other shit you mentioned like robbery, slavery and raping happen all over the world and it is illegal. Yeah we invaded Iraq under false pretense and I'm sure we'll do the same to China. Suck my fat one bitch!!! :D

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: The western model is unfortunately more than just freedom of speech dummy... Don't you think its time to think outside the box... You proof with every comment just how pathetic you are... You really are desperate to ask a guy to suck you because the girls won't come near with (with good reason apparently) mean you really disgusting ---> get some pro-help

[holytodsloan]

Puntonghua, You are such a fucking dumb-ass, your telling me to think outside the box and that my comments are proof that I am pathetic, yet you still haven't answered my question about another model that is as good or better than the western model. PS, my girlfriend is a Chinese

[holytodsloan]

and I fuck her whenever and wherever I want, Asian girls are sooo tight, I guess because you pussy Chinese males have such small dicks that can't penetrate the twat but when a white guy fucks an Asian she is still technically virgin, because you fuckers can't pop the cherry. Cheers fuck face and if I ever fucking see you, you fucking Asian cunt I will punch you in the armpit!!!

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: Ha ha ha again, you assume that I am Chinese. Just because I support a strong China doesn't mean I am Chinese. That's again proof of your narrow-minded brain, and the saddest thing is that you don't even notice it, you poor soul. What you do or think you do with you're girlfriend is your business...

[maomao667]

@holytodsloan

FUCK FUCK  FUCK YOU TO HELL

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: China's model works for China, western model works for the west, it is not as simple as the western model works and anything else doesn't that I mean thinking inside the box, plain dumb and narrow minded... PS, I couldn't care less who or what your girlfriend is...

[holytodsloan]

We are not talking about countries that are totalitarian governments like Singapore that are doing well financially, we are talking about a governments that treats it's people with respect and goodwill. You talked about getting thrown into jail for talking shit about the holocaust, I personally have seen anti-Israel protests in Melbourne with the police standing by and Muslims shouting crap about the holocaust...nothing happened to them, talk about Tienanmen square and you will get shoot

[Puntonghua]

holytodsloan: Ha ha ha... you really are a perfect example of someone that believes everything he sees on TV... So stupid and shallow, assuming I am Chinese just because I don't agree with the bullshit you produce...

[Puntonghua]

holutodsloan: Thinking that the western model is the only way is not just arrogant and naive but also just plain dumb and stupid... The only reason China's model is getting criticised so much is because China gaining power/influence at a fast rate and does not bow to the west unlike India...

[holytodsloan]

Tell me about another model that is as good or better than the western model?? China is one of the leading nations in HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES, I am very aware about how the Chinese treats it's people and groups like the Falun gong and the People of Tibet. You are just another stupid Chinese dick-head who is so proud and loyal to China, even though the Government treats you fuckers like shit and your media never tells you the truth; Chinese are such a willfully ignorant people.

[Puntonghua]

holytodson: You are so fucked up, you sincerely believe that whatever your media tells you is true, you wouldn't even see the truth if it was in front of you're fucked up face...

[psobocinski]

China on the other hands beat the individualism out of its citizens until they fit into the static mould that's been set by a static government.

Throughout history, it has always been the individual that has inspired us, and moved humanity forward. Communism is the demon that sucks the individualistic soul out of us, leaving nothing more than a hollow, 2-legged animal.

Too bad we've gotten so materialistic that all we see when we look at China is efficiency and productivity.

[psobocinski]

This is fearmongering. China's economy is an over-hyped bubble waiting to burst. A society that does not value the individual has very little to offer, and will eventually implode in on itself. Such is the case with china. Have you ever wondered why the areas of highest economic growth and development are large metropolitan cities? It's because they foster individualism above all else.

[911Gold911]

The reason the East Coast of China are richer than the west coast is because the east coast has many sea routs for SHIPS, which making them very wealthy. the west coast dont have sea routs so thats why ECONOMICS never grow in such area. Look back in CHINAS history and the RICHEST areas in CHINA are the WEST side of CHINA, WHY? because of the SILK road trade from europe to china that happens from the WEST. SO get your facts straight about china foster individualism and are racist.

[mkfk1]

people dont understand: that too much freedom is a bad thing. LOok at the USA, their rich billioniars control the US gov by lobby. Free market can only go so much that a line need to be drawn. For example: milteray, education, health care shouldnt be privatize.

[stratvic]

If you think that the US is free or has anything resembling a free market you have been drinking too much of the coolade and too many blue pills.

[BritishSocialism]

It's natural the US doesn't have a free market or it wouldn't be so powerful, it only forces the "free market" on weaker nations to keep them weak.

[stratvic]

Ha! Look up the Economic Freedom index put out by the heritage foundation and see if the evidence backs up that claim.

[stratvic]

It is interesting that the definition of capitalism used here has nothing to with the free market.

[BritishSocialism]

That's because the free market HAS nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism is privately owned modern industry, the free market is just the government saying "we're not going to run this country, we are too weak and stupid and easily bullied by moralising idealistic right wing think-tanks. It doesn't matter the people elected us to rule."

[stratvic]

Or the government saying "Hey we know whatever we meddle with we just stuff up, so why don't we just use force to loot all they clever people making money by making our voters happy with their nifty products and services. We will take the credit for their efforts in providing jobs and increasing the standard of living and take their money through taxation and then we will use it to buy votes by pandering to or voters so we can go out looting again next season. Hoorah!

[BritishSocialism]

In short: "Democratic government is a useless illusion, we are really been run by elitist business leaders who are completely unaccountable to the great mass of the people."

As the Doctrines of Fascism said, "quality over quantity" huh?

[stratvic]

We agree that democracy is an illusion. But it is run by a corrupt politicians who use legalized theft through coercion on the productive in society for the purposes of pandering and in so doing lowering the moral standing of all citizens to the status of receivers. The mercantilism, corporatism, and licensed environmental degradation they enforce are tools to this end.

The free market has nothing to do with government...otherwise it is not free.

[BritishSocialism]

Ohhhhhh, your an anarcho-capitalist.

Good luck ever bring the slightest bit important to the real world. I mean seriously, Capitalism without corporations or goverment, that's like Fascism without the nation state or the Duce.

[stratvic]

The fact that you think the free market needs or has rulers shows how little you know about the free market for which you are critical of. What part of free do you not understand?

Unless you use the term capitalism to exclude the free market which was my comment at the start of this thread.

[WolYou]

stravic: You must differentiate between financial and material markets. A free market doesn't exist in either case. Not because governments are ruling - thats just ridiculous - but because in a free market money talks. And since money is not a natural capital you may generate as much of it as you wish. A good example is what happens, when a country decides to behave as the USA, read about Malaysia. Free financial markets are anarchy. Globalization is an attack against democracy and wealth.

[stratvic]

Money is not necessary for a free market, it is an enabling technology that is useful but the existence of a free market is not conditional on the existence of money.  What is important is value, what is valued is merit as determined by the consumer/society and scarcity, both of which are natural explaining why markets exist everywhere including where they are banned.

A free market is anarchy, but it is the good type, the type that is freedom and non violent (market anarchy).

[BritishSocialism]

Your not even talking about the free market anymore, your talking about fairy land.

[stratvic]

Globalization is an attack on political power over people including democratic political power...and that is a good thing.

[BritishSocialism]

You clearly have never been able to understand that their are more important things in the world than individual gain. You seek to destroy everything that is noble, meaningful and brings people together and replace it with an endless heap of rubbish and hollow rhetoric about the freedom of wealthy westerns who have hardly anything whatsoever with their lives. Anarcho-Capitalism is the ideology of the American student and professors who have become bored with Marxism.

[stratvic]

You will be pleased to know no doubt that socialism is the predominant ideology of American schools...as though the collapse and failure of marxism never happened.

[BritishSocialism]

Don't give me that, the higher education institutions have never produced a single good socialist, aside from a tiny few like George Orwell. The predominant ideology of American school is liberalism, though as a fanatic who refuses to understand real politics you probably refuse to accept that socialism and liberalism are different.

[BritishSocialism]

The middle class youth are a vital help to a Fascist movement, to a socialist movement nothing but a hindrance.

[gizmo2084]

Hear, hear!

[BritishSocialism]

Name one nation which employed free market policies which did not have a goverment. Your free market is like communism, it's exists only in theory and day dreams.

[stratvic]

To the extend markets are free, determines the extent the economy and the society prospers. Look it up. Economic freedom index put out by the Heritage foundation.

[BritishSocialism]

Those organisations totally don't sound like biased right wing think tanks.

[stratvic]

If you cant take the information presented from people who disagree with you and independently verify it then you are doomed to your dogma. Socialism has failed and it fails everywhere. Time you started asking why that statement is true, and then start looking for alternatives.

[BritishSocialism]

Dude, I seen what Libertarians can offer. A simplified American-Centric view of the world and a life wasted talking into webcams and on radio stations which hardly anyone listen to.

Besides, what have individualist anarchists ever done, ever. Social Anarchists fought fascists and Leninists while upper class individualist anarchists wrote stupid books comparing social anarchists to those they fought.

Plus socialism has not "failed everywhere", because of Socialist governments in Britain

[BritishSocialism]

people who would never have had healthcare in their entire lives were able to get it, slums are a thing of the past.

[stratvic]

You will be pleased to know no doubt that socialism is the predominant ideology of American schools...as though the collapse and failure of marxism never happened.

[12valvepower1]

the chinese treat people as dogs though. like nothing but lumber

[12valvepower1]

sounds like early usa economy. without unions we were still a fucking corrupt mess.. MARX!!!!!

[terencelaoshi]

Aklways easy to hear when Naomi is out of her depth ... she stutters like porky pig.

Naomi's grasp of what is happening in China is very tenuous. She's great at making 'nothing' sound impressively important, but is caught out when Paul asks anything requiring detail. I suspect that she doesn't even understand the deeper nature of the China buusiness or economic system.

Facile abnd superficial Naomi. Stick to your domestic politics.

[MuslimGhost]

omg the oppressive chinese government sent one of their minions here to attack their enemies by proxy!

[12valvepower1]

MARX IS GOOD !

[roderickcaparoso]

Light Love & Peace

[roderickcaparoso]

i wonder who really owns your network. is it another smoke screen to hide who we really are? you know what.... it's exactly the same reality you see on free tv all over the world everyday. bad news and more bad news every seconds of the day. wake up people!!! do not watch or accept this kind of propaganda. its time to learn our higher self. high frequency is the answer brothers and sisters.

[lhooq21]

I say this with a sad feeling inside.

[lhooq21]

Maybe the neo-cons are a step ahead. They are tring to push through the mesures that are needed to compete with china.

[lastnymleft]

They're becoming more like us; we're becoming more like them. Well isn't that just cozy. Kinda like we're all just One World, living in a New World Order, isn't it?

[SwobyJ]

A lot are 'in on it'. Just yesterday I think, I saw on CTV (Canadian) a guest who nervously brought up the term 'new world order' in an interview about global markets and political trends.. it was interesting, like when a child brings up a topic of conversation to his parents when he knows they don't want to talk about it (or vise-versa)

[abilityoflove]

Totalitarian global capitalism -- hmm, this sounds so familiar ... perhaps at this point we should hope for the Second Coming and an UFO intervention?

Well,... can somebody tell me who is going to save the world? :)

[arleen3]

I think we are supposed to :) but since we are too divided and distracted in your lives, who knows.

[12valvepower1]

totaliranist communsim