you have to know that Islam had put an end to slavery and all people become equal in Islam,where in Europe and the States they kept kidnaping africans from thier own lands they were free when they were at their homes and you brought them by ships to make them suffer,till recent days with racisisim.You are the last one who critisize slavery.If your house is made of glass don't start stoning others.
@khalloud2008 That is a Tu quoque fallacy. You have to know that Muslims are still allowed to have slaves according to the Quran. You also have to know that Muslims retained their slaves and even kept the children of their slaves as slaves. Slaves that converted were to be freed before the others. They were coerced into Islam. Using slavery to do it.
PUTTING ALL RELIGIOUS MATTERS ASIDE: blacks are everywhere upon this globe. Not because a white skinned race placed us here & there, it is because we onced ruled this globe. If you go anywhere upon this planet you will notice the TRUE indigenous people of that land were melinated people. So let's eradicate 3 mental blocks:
1. All mindless religions should be erased from this planet.
2. Stop mystifying the white race, we give them too much credit.
Read the quran and you'll see it repeats all the time "what your right hads possesses", in other words slaves. One example is 33:50 where Muhammed is given by Allah the right to have sex with all the women he wants, incoluding his slaves. Read the hadiths and you'll see that Muhammed had slaves. You'll also read that Muhammed attacked people to expand his Jihad and killed the men and took the women and children as slaves.Islam practiced African slavery long before Europeans
@MegaLoveMessage and it s funny how u think arabs were not europeans. acutlaly they were the majority of europeans before they tried to remove themselves by stealing north african cultures. most of the culture that is on them is north african, except their savagery, they brought that from europe. what do u think these romans/greeks/turks etc. were? the majority of europe was dark-haired semitic. all u blond/redheads/brunettes r ppl they enslaved from barbarians (gauls/goths/vikings etc.)
@kwilly54 i still dont understand why ppl assume arabs r the ones responsible for islam. that is such a lie! among them were many who were and still are trying to destroy it who in reality follow occult satanic principles. they persecuted muhammad for so long that there was a time the queen of ethiopia granted him refuge becuz he was a wanted man. ppl disregard these facts. if anything, it is africans who r responsible for keeping islam alive. arabs r the worst example of muslims!
@kwilly54 u didnt understand me very well because i was backing u up. present day arabs r not even the real north african arabs. they r europeans who stole the cultures as usual and i agree with u completely about sudan and i kno all about it. what just annoys me is how ppl assume islam is arabic while it s the other way round. indians right now r the majority culture of muslims in the world but no one pays attention to such things. pliz stop associating muslims to the savage semitic cultures!
@kwilly54 it s all good, no problem. btw i thought most sudanese want to be like the arabs, especially the ones up north? every sudanese person i ve come across is deluded that his/her ancestry is arabic and not african. i cant imagine if there are still sudanese ppl out there who still love their real roots. the only 1 thing i dont like about being a muslim here in europe is that ppl associate me to the savage arabs. damn i hope my hate for these ppl doesnt distract me from God.
Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'.
its a mix of christianty and jewish and offourse ARABIAN PAGANSIM,the first woman to wear a veail was Virgin mary, and its forbidden in christianty to paint jesus, but peole has ingored and that god said dont eat the pork...remeber they used to be (pagans before islam, and now they are trying to tell us the world,whats up !! most of them are offsprings of cousin marriege...forget them and this topic CONTINUE WITH UR LIFE, AND LET GOD DO THE REST....PEACE !
the muslims(arabs) wanted to build empire with thier anti krist filosfy..They only freed the slaves becuse they where lacking of fallowers, they where desperete for pepole thats why they started to do jihad and force peple to convert...Islam is mental slavery, and thier true agenda is imperialism...
The issue of the egg is not to say that the earth is shaped like a perfect egg. The correct word to use would be "eggoid" I.E. egglike/oblong. It would be the same as saying spheroid instead of a sphere which is not accurate
Watch a bit more Muslim proselytizing. They definitely say ostrich egg. And many Muslims that buy into this are so brainwashed that they said the earth is a perfect ostrich egg shape. They are ready to believe anything for their religion.
"eggoid"? Seriously, where do you get this crap from? So dahaha is best translated into "to make into the shape of an eggoid"
yeah I agree many muslims do not understand their book and will say ignorant things. I think people say ostrich egg because people who attack the "egglike" interpretation usually point to a chicken egg and say how it is shaped. Ostrich egg is more rounded. But I think you are being unscientific in your response to "eggoid". Yes dahaha also means "egglike" If you translate that into an english equivalent it would be eggoid. Scientists are now saying that earth is a Sphereroid not a sphere. Same!
What about Muhammad repromanding a guy for freeing a slave girl.
"Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
As for Muhammad reprimanding for freeing a slave girl remember we were dealing with a generation that could have created ghettos, prostitution etc if simply "dropped" by their masters. What Muhammad set up was a system where responsibility for the society was. People would have loved to free a slave without any responsibility but that was a haphazard act. You don't hear of the slave asking to be freed because they were taken care of. A gradual abolition. This is y ppl wanted to be rid of slaves
Assuming that is true, that doesn't make thousand year slavery ok. And, considering we are talking about God, he can provide for the poor can't he?
You do know you can pay a slave for the same work... I mean you do know this. You can house a freed slave too. You argument that the alternative is "to simply drop them" is just false.
And all slaves in America were practically freed over night. Muslims might think it should have taken another thousand years but considering we now have a black president, I'd say that Allah's great plan is weak at best.
I have a lot of respect for your style and composure in examining Islam. You make interesting points and seem like a person who can think rationally. Remember also concerning your point on a slave asking ransom, his family can also ask ransom since they are slaves too, he would not have to buy his family. Also, The style of dealing with slavery in the Quran makes sense because masters were responsible and had wealth to feed and house slaves. If they just released slaves they would be .........
No DayfallKat Slavery was big IN THE WORLD when Muhammad came. Islam did not invent slavery it dealt with it in a way that integrated slaves into society. We tend to focus on abolition in the west because slavery was so brutal here. You must understand that Islam introduced the concept that a slave had to be clothed with the same clothes and fed with the same food. It was not fair and moreover haphazard to just release a slave into the wilderness with nothing like america did. In Islam slaves...
Cont'd.......... rose to the top of society holding leadership and scholarship positions. If slavery had simply been abolished and no responsibility on the society that could never have happened and we would have seen the same situation as in america where blacks were freed but subjugated and oppressed for over 100 years after abolition and still. Only now do we see a black president and racism is still rampant. Government promised 40 acres and a mule to former slaves, never happened. Study!!
Watch this movie... Then inshAllah we will get into part 2 of our discussion.
This is not even a debate.... All you have to do is go inside a Church then on the same day go inside a Mosque... Then talk to me about slavery in islam.
Wikipedia.lol Just watch some of the videos to your right. I guess it was arabs who colonilized Africa, whiped out the native indians, then inslaved the blacks and put them in modern day ghetto's (aka project public housing) . Don't forget about the Romans, WWI and WWIII.... looks like the Christians inslaved and killed more people then anyone else in history. Ever ask yourself why Islam is the fastest growing religion? because it's not hard to see who are the real hypocrites (US, Israel, Euro).
You ask me to google it but then you LOL at Wikipedia. ??
BTW, I did google "slavery Islam" and yes, it was pretty much what I would expect.
And if you think "Islam isn't as bad" is some type of rebuttal then you missed the original point. That point is slavery can continue indefinitely under Islam.
Muhammad says it all. Rape of female slaves with the intention of getting them pregant.
"We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""
QuranAlone I know where you coming from if you don't accept Hadeeth you can't follow Islam period.
And pls show me a clear ayat which says "Slavery is haram no more slavery it is evil". There is none in Quran like that and read the history prophet had slaves.
He never freed all of his slaves .Just use your mind don't follow blindly.
US constitution RE-abolished slavery 12 centuries after Quran said FREE SLAVES
Quoting hadith is futile as Quran condemns all hadith except itself.
45:6-7 These are The God's revelations that we recite to you with truth. So which hadith after The God and it's revelations do they acknowledge? Woe to every sinful fabricator.
Are you suggesting that the Quran abolished slavery? As keeping slaves and gaining slaves by your slave's children and by capturing slaves while in war is entirely legal by the Quran, the Quran never abolished slavery.
If slaves can be acquired then slavery is not abolished. Slaves can be acquired and legally kept according to the Quran.
Speaking of the constitution:"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
The Quran has no equivalent and is morally inferior.
If morals change, as you say they can, and slavery becomes lawful and we go to war (you on the opposite said I am on) then it is possible for me to get the chance to buy you and another female slave. I do not care for your well being except to the extent the Quran says I should. I would not cage you (as you libelous say) and if you renounce Islam then I might free you.
A Umm Walid can not be sold and only automatically becomes free after her master's death. The child of two slaves is definitely not free. Which is my whole point.
So, if I get your daughter pregnant then she becomes an Umm Walid? That is if I claim the child as my own. Sounds good to me. And don't worry, if you are my slave then I will be sure to follow Sura 24:32 and find you some female spoils of war. And remember, no "pulling out".
Annemarie Schimmel is a false source? Abd Robert Brunschvig? Reuben Levy?
While you are at it, you need to go over and put the "truth" in the Wikipedia pages. There are several pages that have this "falsehood." I am sure you can provide sources.
Kecia Ali? "When female slaves are married off, any children born from the marriage are slaves belonging to the mothers owner"
"24.32: And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy"
The Quran encourages you to marry your slaves together if they are "needy". And with children born to slaves being slaves themselves this makes the Quran part of sustaining this evil.
"I've never heard / studied anything of the like in my life"
That does not surprise me.
"Islam came to gradually end slavery"
gradually is the right word. The fact is, slavery under Islam could have perpetuated indefinitely.
"she & her child would automatically become free"
That is a lie. The child only becomes free by his master freeing him. This is not automatic and not required. The mother is only automatically freed by her masters death.
"Lastly, I would never come crying to a person like you for anything so don't flatter yourself."
I would not expect you too. You would make a good slave then. And if freeing your women after they have been made pregnant by their masters sounds good to you, then Islam might not be so bad after all. Depending on how many wars we fight, we might have your women for slaves for many centuries.
I am sorry, if me agreeing to have you as a slave is insulting. But I AM the one who is saying slavery is wrong. If you say slavery is morally right just cause some people think so, then don't come crying to me if you are ever enslaved. I will have no pity just as you have no pity for the slaves your religion endorses.
"Islam: An Introduction" by Annemarie Schimmel.
"Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim"
my sister, don't wast your time with him! his closed mind, hi goal is to show all good things in Islam are wrong! but he dont have position to comment or give his opinion cuz we don't care about him! HIS AGAINST ISLAM IN ALL WAYS!
I do say slavery is wrong. But if you disagree, then I will not argue; as long as you are the one enslaved then I have no disagreement.
I never said I would keep you in a cage. You will have housing, clothing and food. You can only hope that I would sell you off to as nice as a person as myself.
What happened to slaves if they tried to run away?
Oh, I am not arguing that slavery is wrong with you. It you say slavery is moral then that is fine with me. I just hope that you are captured in a war so that I can buy you. I then hope you have a daughter so I can own her too.
Homosexuality was never wrong. Slavery is always wrong. What is thought to be right and wrong changes.
You are pitiful in defending owning the children of your slaves. Perhaps slavery will once again be moral and I can own you. I need some work done around here. And if you renounce your religion then I might set you free.
I must say I admire the way you argue in a respectful manner and without resorting to insults and humiliations, which is rare.
About the issue you are raising, then yes islam does permit having POW's in that way. Muslims get in trouble when they try to explain the reasons behind. This is because God didn't gave the reason. The same goes for other commands, you can't always rationalize them and explain the reasons behind, due to our .mind being limited, but the Creator alone knows the reason
That is assuming that Allah wrote the Quran. I don't assume that. You also must know that I don't assume that. Therefore this argument was not directed at myself. Instead it is your own internal justification.
Now, I am wondering if you realize that any false religion can use the same argument.
Claiming your god is good does not excuse "apparently" immoral acts. This reasoning is only used by scoundrels.
You're questioning how a "good" god can allow "immoral" acts. The problem is that these are relative terms. Where you consider this immoral, I don't. I don't, for instance, consider allowing a POW to stay in your house, where the person has to be provided for and protected, and has the rights, when certain conditions are fulfilled, to simply be released, to be "immoral". POW's today aren't exactly treated this way, but somehow you consider them "free"?
DayfallKat- Yes The Prophet (PBUH) and his companions owned slaves. But they set all their slaves free. They did this to set the example for rest of the society. Slavery was very (very) widespread in pre-Islamic Arabia and it was not something that could have been eradicated overnight. Rather it was done in bits by bits. And where did you get the information that slaves are owned in Middle East until this day under the bearing of Islam?
When people hear the word "slavery" they automatically think of the African slavery that was practiced before the appearance of Islam. But it's very clear in the teachings of Islam that the Muslims slave owners had to follow a strict set of rules. If you want to know more about that read the Quran. By the way, the slaves owned by Muslims had the right to buy there freedom back. Peace!
You mean their children were prisoners of war? Muslims did own the children of their slaves, didn't they?
Prisoners of war are not owned. "A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women." "Slavery was also perceived as a means of converting non-Muslims to Islam."
You are right. Slavery might not be strong enough word for Islamic slaves.
The slaves that Muslims owned at the time were not racial slaves. They were prisoners of war. And they were treated with dignity and respect and nobody was allowed to mistreat them or force them to do something they are incapable of doing, unlike the European slavery. As a matter of fact, "Slavery" is not an accurate translation, as there is no English word to describe a person who is a prisoner of war, who is owned by a man, and who is treated with dignity and respect.
All of which can be given by other means, like a paid servant. The master owns the children of his slaves so slavery can continue indefinitely even is noone (not just Muhammad and his followers) buys slaves. If you can justify slavery I am wondering what other evil you can justify.
"their whole system of society is collapse."
Yeah, not like Allah can support people being good. "Do good and I will protect you." No. "Do what it takes to survive." Yeah, that is the Islamic god.
"All of which can be given by other means, like a paid servant." Yes it could have...under your contemporary middle America suburban point of view. You are talking about Arabic peninsula about 1400 years ago. If you were set free there is a very good chance you will get killed by your clan for being a disgrace and losing the war.
So they kept slaves so that their own people wouldn't hurt them for being captured? Don't Islamic slaves get food and shelter? Wouldn't it be more just to offer them protection but also allow them to be free?
"there is a very good chance you will get killed by your clan"
You just make this stuff up don't you. Ha, instead of Mercy Killing it is Mercy Slavery.
last Q, it is in fact Muhammad S.A.W and his follower own slave. Keep in mind that it was 1400 yrs ago,during that time when a "country" loose a war their whole system of society is collapse. That is why there during that time slavery was allowed.
1st Q, it is better to educate your slave than to free them. The problem is education is mandatory in Islam. Sura 96:01, "Recite/Proclaim/Read in the name of thy Lord...". So a muslim slave have to be an educated slave (at least they can read).
You said that slaves have to paid their master to be free, but it is contradictory w/ the Quran Sura 24:33, "...And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you...", the Sura said that not the slave that suppose to pay for the master, it is the master that suppose to pay to the slave.
"When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"
Sorry, what Muhammad said is irrelevant. (If you want to bring up saying of him then that is fine with me.) Knowing you will only accept good things he said, I only accept Quranic verses.
because islam is not only a religion! if it was then its up to u to believe whatever u want.
It is LAW in society! to give up islam doesnt mean u dont want to pray anymore, no. It means u will become an outlaw, people who purposely leave islam stand against the law which protects individuals. What do any country do to outlaws im sure they dont give them a lot of options do they??
But for people who are like, "i dont believe in islam" but they still abide by the law, nobody talks to them.
That is a cool trick. If I ever decide to make a religion, I'll make sure to say "it is a LAW" that way I can justify killing those that "break the law" Heretics are no longer just unbelievers, but now they are "outlaws".
"who purposely leave islam stand against the law which protects individuals"
In my response to you about slavery; I change me answer. The answer is yes. Your religion is a nasty cult that enslaves it followers. Under penalty of death, they are enslaved.
because islam is not only a religion! if it was then its up to u to believe whatever u want. It is LAW in society! to give up islam doesnt mean u dont want to pray anymore, no. What do any country do to outlaws im sure they dont give them a lot of options do they??
... But for people who are like, "i dont believe in islam" but they still abide by the law, nobody talks to them.
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Check out my 2 mind control videos in my favorites.
The fine about freeing slave is an educate fine, this encourage ppl to free slavery, thus this will prove that he is sincere and encourage to do charity. More over the fine will make him think twice before conducting the unlawful/sin.
If Muhammad was a messenger of Allah and slavery was bad in Islam, why didn't Muhammad free all the slaves under Islam. He was in control of of many of the laws during his time? So why didn't he free the slaves? Plus Muhammad was a slave owner and trader.
what about the slave bilal? who the was the low of the lowest in the eyes of the non-muslism in mecca. The prophet made him stand on the sacred shrine in mecca to give the call to prayer.
Actually there many North African countries STILL HAD SLAVERY even up to Aug. 2007, when Mauritania, a North African Muslim country, finally under WESTERN PRESSURE, not Muslim, they signed an anti-slavery act.
Yes the slave owners were Arab and the slaves were black.
So Islam is encouraging people to free slave for free or allow the slave to paid themself to their master (in an amount that the slave can afford and the master is not allowed to reject if their slave is requesting this arrangement). It is all in the Al Quran, but i know that some people do ignore this facts.
Not all slave owner is evil n in Islam you should share what you have with them, in those day people buy slave just like we invest nowdays, so it will not be fair for them to just command them to realease their slave. It is the same thing, like you were told to tear apart all your microsoft stock share.
Slavery is part and parcel of Jihad in Islamic doctrine. However the slaves all down through Islamic History were not taken to be used as laborers, but taken to be used for sex. The men of the village were put to the sword, and the women taken for sex to fill harems etc. Sometimes men were spared the sword to have their genitals completely removed to serve as Eunuchs in guarding the harems. Child slaves were servants mostly, but also used for sex.
The point is that you came here trying to make it seem like I agreed with slavery. I don't. YOU are the one that has the book that says owing slaves is ok.
My argument was not that Muslins would go back to slavery. Neither will the Christians.
"We treated our slaves well." Is that the extent of morality in Islam? You do know it is STILL lawful for you to capture for slaves in battle according to Islam.
What I was alluding to is that there are two different types of slaves. A slave with rights and a slave that has rights such as owning property ect. Islam made the transition of slaves into serfs and now days there is no slaves. Except the slavery of debt which comes from an interest/usury based banking system. Islam forbids slavery/oppression and Usury
Slavery is illegal in most if not all Islamic countries. As well fatwa isn't a law, it is a stated opinion and isn't judiciary; it does not oblige anyone to anything. I don't know what you're talking about with "lipservice" or "swallow", but sorry, I don't swing that way. I'm not muslim and not being "defensive", I just think your propaganda is bullshit.
Your note is misleading. A couple things: Slavery in Sudan predates Islam. As well, there was open civil war in Sudan for over twenty years; we all know how fucked up war in Africa has been, and the shitty things that are being done. It's also important as counterpoint to note that, Muhammed himself said that he would stand against anyone who enslaved another man. (And I'm not even a Muslim.)
winter, you must be kidding. did you hear the story about mohammad's jewish wife? do you know what happened to her entire tribe and family (including her husband)?
princesszin, are you referring to this: Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511:
"So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered Khaybar home by home. The first stronghold defeated was Naim. Next was Qamus, the community of Abi Huqayq. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah bt. Huyayy, the wife of Kinanah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself."
I could not find in the Qur'an where it said to not enslave free people. In any case, prisoners of war are certainly fair game. If a non-muslim fights a Muslim and the Muslim can catch him, then yeah, take him as your slave.
Yes, but the only other way I could take his arguement was that ex-slaves would be out on their own. If this is the case then why would the ex-slave leave? It is assumed that the owner needs the slave for some task. It is also assumed that the slave is given food and shelter. Then should not freed slaves be hired by their previous owners as workers? Except that the slave would no longer be property, nothing would change. The entire socity would operate as usual (except for slave trade).
Eventually ex-slaves would work themselves out of the "company store." I did not explain this because I thought it would take too long and I thought it was kind of obvious.
Still you are right, I ment education in what it means today. To teach knowlege and skills to make one ready to provide for himself.
you have to know that Islam had put an end to slavery and all people become equal in Islam,where in Europe and the States they kept kidnaping africans from thier own lands they were free when they were at their homes and you brought them by ships to make them suffer,till recent days with racisisim.You are the last one who critisize slavery.If your house is made of glass don't start stoning others.
khalloud2008 2 months ago
@khalloud2008 That is a Tu quoque fallacy. You have to know that Muslims are still allowed to have slaves according to the Quran. You also have to know that Muslims retained their slaves and even kept the children of their slaves as slaves. Slaves that converted were to be freed before the others. They were coerced into Islam. Using slavery to do it.
DayfallKat 2 months ago
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PUTTING ALL RELIGIOUS MATTERS ASIDE: blacks are everywhere upon this globe. Not because a white skinned race placed us here & there, it is because we onced ruled this globe. If you go anywhere upon this planet you will notice the TRUE indigenous people of that land were melinated people. So let's eradicate 3 mental blocks:
1. All mindless religions should be erased from this planet.
2. Stop mystifying the white race, we give them too much credit.
3. Study & retain your dark history!
semnekar 1 year ago
Read the quran and you'll see it repeats all the time "what your right hads possesses", in other words slaves. One example is 33:50 where Muhammed is given by Allah the right to have sex with all the women he wants, incoluding his slaves. Read the hadiths and you'll see that Muhammed had slaves. You'll also read that Muhammed attacked people to expand his Jihad and killed the men and took the women and children as slaves.Islam practiced African slavery long before Europeans
MegaLoveMessage 1 year ago
@MegaLoveMessage and it s funny how u think arabs were not europeans. acutlaly they were the majority of europeans before they tried to remove themselves by stealing north african cultures. most of the culture that is on them is north african, except their savagery, they brought that from europe. what do u think these romans/greeks/turks etc. were? the majority of europe was dark-haired semitic. all u blond/redheads/brunettes r ppl they enslaved from barbarians (gauls/goths/vikings etc.)
smukase 4 months ago
Why do people follow religions that practice slavery . Islam shows it's hypocrisy every
day of the week in every Arab Islamic country that Black people live in . Islamic Arabs
are commiting genocide at this very moment in the Sudan .
kwilly54 1 year ago
@kwilly54 i still dont understand why ppl assume arabs r the ones responsible for islam. that is such a lie! among them were many who were and still are trying to destroy it who in reality follow occult satanic principles. they persecuted muhammad for so long that there was a time the queen of ethiopia granted him refuge becuz he was a wanted man. ppl disregard these facts. if anything, it is africans who r responsible for keeping islam alive. arabs r the worst example of muslims!
smukase 4 months ago
@smukase Are you on drugs ? Where is all this insane denial about the inhuman , barbaric and sadistic history
that the Arab Muslims are responsible for coming from ? 1400 hundred years and up to the very present enslavement of Black africans still exist .
kwilly54 4 months ago
@kwilly54 u didnt understand me very well because i was backing u up. present day arabs r not even the real north african arabs. they r europeans who stole the cultures as usual and i agree with u completely about sudan and i kno all about it. what just annoys me is how ppl assume islam is arabic while it s the other way round. indians right now r the majority culture of muslims in the world but no one pays attention to such things. pliz stop associating muslims to the savage semitic cultures!
smukase 4 months ago
@smukase Sorry my friend if I misunderstood you . All organized religions are responsible for the bigotry in the
world today .
kwilly54 4 months ago
@kwilly54 it s all good, no problem. btw i thought most sudanese want to be like the arabs, especially the ones up north? every sudanese person i ve come across is deluded that his/her ancestry is arabic and not african. i cant imagine if there are still sudanese ppl out there who still love their real roots. the only 1 thing i dont like about being a muslim here in europe is that ppl associate me to the savage arabs. damn i hope my hate for these ppl doesnt distract me from God.
smukase 4 months ago
Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'.
ronny22 1 year ago
still if you know about the middle east labor law . it supports the modern day slavery .
you2ubeist 1 year ago
its true , even Christianity supports ..(exodus 21) both religion teaches how to behave to slaves , but any religion condemns the act of slavery .
its the biggest proof for it is from human brain not from any God
you2ubeist 1 year ago
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all religion is Slavery... especially Islam
erebb91 1 year ago
all religion is Slavery... especially Islam
erebb91 1 year ago
its a mix of christianty and jewish and offourse ARABIAN PAGANSIM,the first woman to wear a veail was Virgin mary, and its forbidden in christianty to paint jesus, but peole has ingored and that god said dont eat the pork...remeber they used to be (pagans before islam, and now they are trying to tell us the world,whats up !! most of them are offsprings of cousin marriege...forget them and this topic CONTINUE WITH UR LIFE, AND LET GOD DO THE REST....PEACE !
Fkkoff 1 year ago
the muslims(arabs) wanted to build empire with thier anti krist filosfy..They only freed the slaves becuse they where lacking of fallowers, they where desperete for pepole thats why they started to do jihad and force peple to convert...Islam is mental slavery, and thier true agenda is imperialism...
Fkkoff 1 year ago
The issue of the egg is not to say that the earth is shaped like a perfect egg. The correct word to use would be "eggoid" I.E. egglike/oblong. It would be the same as saying spheroid instead of a sphere which is not accurate
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
Watch a bit more Muslim proselytizing. They definitely say ostrich egg. And many Muslims that buy into this are so brainwashed that they said the earth is a perfect ostrich egg shape. They are ready to believe anything for their religion.
"eggoid"? Seriously, where do you get this crap from? So dahaha is best translated into "to make into the shape of an eggoid"
DayfallKat 2 years ago
yeah I agree many muslims do not understand their book and will say ignorant things. I think people say ostrich egg because people who attack the "egglike" interpretation usually point to a chicken egg and say how it is shaped. Ostrich egg is more rounded. But I think you are being unscientific in your response to "eggoid". Yes dahaha also means "egglike" If you translate that into an english equivalent it would be eggoid. Scientists are now saying that earth is a Sphereroid not a sphere. Same!
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
Slavery was big in Islam.
The Muwatta of Imam Malik:
Chapter 371 - "Slaves who cannot be set Free in the Obligatory Freeing of a Slave"
Chapter 383 - "Cohabitation with a Slave Girl after Declaring Her 'Mudabbir'"
Chapter 387 - "Who is Entitled to the Property of a Slave or Slave Girl at the time of Sale."
Chapter 388 - "The Limit of Responsibility of the Seller in the Sale of a Slave or Slave Girl."
Chapter 390 - "On the Conditional Sale of a Slave Girl."
DayfallKat 2 years ago
What about Muhammad repromanding a guy for freeing a slave girl.
"Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
DayfallKat 2 years ago
As for Muhammad reprimanding for freeing a slave girl remember we were dealing with a generation that could have created ghettos, prostitution etc if simply "dropped" by their masters. What Muhammad set up was a system where responsibility for the society was. People would have loved to free a slave without any responsibility but that was a haphazard act. You don't hear of the slave asking to be freed because they were taken care of. A gradual abolition. This is y ppl wanted to be rid of slaves
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
"if simply "dropped" by their masters."
This is a false dichotomy.
"because they were taken care of. "
Assuming that is true, that doesn't make thousand year slavery ok. And, considering we are talking about God, he can provide for the poor can't he?
You do know you can pay a slave for the same work... I mean you do know this. You can house a freed slave too. You argument that the alternative is "to simply drop them" is just false.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
And all slaves in America were practically freed over night. Muslims might think it should have taken another thousand years but considering we now have a black president, I'd say that Allah's great plan is weak at best.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
I have a lot of respect for your style and composure in examining Islam. You make interesting points and seem like a person who can think rationally. Remember also concerning your point on a slave asking ransom, his family can also ask ransom since they are slaves too, he would not have to buy his family. Also, The style of dealing with slavery in the Quran makes sense because masters were responsible and had wealth to feed and house slaves. If they just released slaves they would be .........
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
No DayfallKat Slavery was big IN THE WORLD when Muhammad came. Islam did not invent slavery it dealt with it in a way that integrated slaves into society. We tend to focus on abolition in the west because slavery was so brutal here. You must understand that Islam introduced the concept that a slave had to be clothed with the same clothes and fed with the same food. It was not fair and moreover haphazard to just release a slave into the wilderness with nothing like america did. In Islam slaves...
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
Cont'd.......... rose to the top of society holding leadership and scholarship positions. If slavery had simply been abolished and no responsibility on the society that could never have happened and we would have seen the same situation as in america where blacks were freed but subjugated and oppressed for over 100 years after abolition and still. Only now do we see a black president and racism is still rampant. Government promised 40 acres and a mule to former slaves, never happened. Study!!
Harzburgitic 2 years ago
You need a quick history lesson on Islam.
Watch this movie... Then inshAllah we will get into part 2 of our discussion.
This is not even a debate.... All you have to do is go inside a Church then on the same day go inside a Mosque... Then talk to me about slavery in islam.
BBCcashville 2 years ago
Will Wikipedia do? Will the Quran itself do?
"This is not even a debate.... All you have to do is go inside a Church "
How, er what?
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Wikipedia.lol Just watch some of the videos to your right. I guess it was arabs who colonilized Africa, whiped out the native indians, then inslaved the blacks and put them in modern day ghetto's (aka project public housing) . Don't forget about the Romans, WWI and WWIII.... looks like the Christians inslaved and killed more people then anyone else in history. Ever ask yourself why Islam is the fastest growing religion? because it's not hard to see who are the real hypocrites (US, Israel, Euro).
BBCcashville 2 years ago
"I guess it was arabs who colonilized Africa,"
So, your rebuttal to my video is: Islam IS ideal for ending slavery because some other groups had more slaves.
"Ever ask yourself why Islam is the fastest growing religion?"
Took long enough didn't it. And the new Islam (Quranic miracles and anti slavery) also help.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
What planet are you on? LMAO
Dayfallkat are you serious? Just google slavery and tell me what you find....loool
Anybody can put any rubbish on youtube these days... Trying to call Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) a slave trader...lol
You already have preconceived notions and obviously not willing to google anything on the history of slavery so I can't help you brother.
I'm not going to start sending you link because i'm pretty sure you have the internet like do (my last comment on this BS).
BBCcashville 2 years ago
You ask me to google it but then you LOL at Wikipedia. ??
BTW, I did google "slavery Islam" and yes, it was pretty much what I would expect.
And if you think "Islam isn't as bad" is some type of rebuttal then you missed the original point. That point is slavery can continue indefinitely under Islam.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
"Dayfallkat are you serious? Just google slavery and tell me what you find....loool"
Is that what passes for thinking these days?
"Anybody can put any rubbish on youtube these days"
I already know that. I have seen lots of Muslim videos.
"obviously not willing to google anything on the history of slavery"
You surely mean "history of slavery under islam." And Why say google it? Because you have no evidence nor can you argue the point.
I can.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Muhammad says it all. Rape of female slaves with the intention of getting them pregant.
"We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""
DayfallKat 2 years ago
QuranAlone I know where you coming from if you don't accept Hadeeth you can't follow Islam period.
And pls show me a clear ayat which says "Slavery is haram no more slavery it is evil". There is none in Quran like that and read the history prophet had slaves.
He never freed all of his slaves .Just use your mind don't follow blindly.
Eddiejr72 2 years ago
Quran 2:177 spend money to FREE SLAVES
4:92 FREE SLAVES
5:89 FREE SLAVES
9:60 spend money to FREE SLAVES
58:3 FREE SLAVES
90:13 better path is FREEING SLAVES
US constitution RE-abolished slavery 12 centuries after Quran said FREE SLAVES
Quoting hadith is futile as Quran condemns all hadith except itself.
45:6-7 These are The God's revelations that we recite to you with truth. So which hadith after The God and it's revelations do they acknowledge? Woe to every sinful fabricator.
QuranAlone1746 2 years ago 2
Freeing slaves is for atonement of specific sins.
"US constitution RE-abolished"
Are you suggesting that the Quran abolished slavery? As keeping slaves and gaining slaves by your slave's children and by capturing slaves while in war is entirely legal by the Quran, the Quran never abolished slavery.
If slaves can be acquired then slavery is not abolished. Slaves can be acquired and legally kept according to the Quran.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Speaking of the constitution:"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
The Quran has no equivalent and is morally inferior.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
If morals change, as you say they can, and slavery becomes lawful and we go to war (you on the opposite said I am on) then it is possible for me to get the chance to buy you and another female slave. I do not care for your well being except to the extent the Quran says I should. I would not cage you (as you libelous say) and if you renounce Islam then I might free you.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
A Umm Walid can not be sold and only automatically becomes free after her master's death. The child of two slaves is definitely not free. Which is my whole point.
So, if I get your daughter pregnant then she becomes an Umm Walid? That is if I claim the child as my own. Sounds good to me. And don't worry, if you are my slave then I will be sure to follow Sura 24:32 and find you some female spoils of war. And remember, no "pulling out".
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Annemarie Schimmel is a false source? Abd Robert Brunschvig? Reuben Levy?
While you are at it, you need to go over and put the "truth" in the Wikipedia pages. There are several pages that have this "falsehood." I am sure you can provide sources.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Kecia Ali? "When female slaves are married off, any children born from the marriage are slaves belonging to the mothers owner"
"24.32: And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy"
The Quran encourages you to marry your slaves together if they are "needy". And with children born to slaves being slaves themselves this makes the Quran part of sustaining this evil.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
"I've never heard / studied anything of the like in my life"
That does not surprise me.
"Islam came to gradually end slavery"
gradually is the right word. The fact is, slavery under Islam could have perpetuated indefinitely.
"she & her child would automatically become free"
That is a lie. The child only becomes free by his master freeing him. This is not automatic and not required. The mother is only automatically freed by her masters death.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
"Lastly, I would never come crying to a person like you for anything so don't flatter yourself."
I would not expect you too. You would make a good slave then. And if freeing your women after they have been made pregnant by their masters sounds good to you, then Islam might not be so bad after all. Depending on how many wars we fight, we might have your women for slaves for many centuries.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
I am sorry, if me agreeing to have you as a slave is insulting. But I AM the one who is saying slavery is wrong. If you say slavery is morally right just cause some people think so, then don't come crying to me if you are ever enslaved. I will have no pity just as you have no pity for the slaves your religion endorses.
"Islam: An Introduction" by Annemarie Schimmel.
"Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim"
DayfallKat 2 years ago
my sister, don't wast your time with him! his closed mind, hi goal is to show all good things in Islam are wrong! but he dont have position to comment or give his opinion cuz we don't care about him! HIS AGAINST ISLAM IN ALL WAYS!
pray to him to god bless him.
fugitif213 2 years ago
Typical cult thinking.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
when you meet your angels REMEMBER ME! good luck
fugitif213 2 years ago
What are "my angels" and when will this occur?
DayfallKat 2 years ago
look for it by your self useless human bin
fugitif213 2 years ago
Then I have a suspicion that you talk rubbish.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
I do say slavery is wrong. But if you disagree, then I will not argue; as long as you are the one enslaved then I have no disagreement.
I never said I would keep you in a cage. You will have housing, clothing and food. You can only hope that I would sell you off to as nice as a person as myself.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
"I'm not a caged animal"
What happened to slaves if they tried to run away?
Oh, I am not arguing that slavery is wrong with you. It you say slavery is moral then that is fine with me. I just hope that you are captured in a war so that I can buy you. I then hope you have a daughter so I can own her too.
I am so glad you don't think slavery is immoral.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
Homosexuality was never wrong. Slavery is always wrong. What is thought to be right and wrong changes.
You are pitiful in defending owning the children of your slaves. Perhaps slavery will once again be moral and I can own you. I need some work done around here. And if you renounce your religion then I might set you free.
DayfallKat 2 years ago
I must say I admire the way you argue in a respectful manner and without resorting to insults and humiliations, which is rare.
About the issue you are raising, then yes islam does permit having POW's in that way. Muslims get in trouble when they try to explain the reasons behind. This is because God didn't gave the reason. The same goes for other commands, you can't always rationalize them and explain the reasons behind, due to our .mind being limited, but the Creator alone knows the reason
P3X018 3 years ago
"the Creator alone knows the reason "
That is assuming that Allah wrote the Quran. I don't assume that. You also must know that I don't assume that. Therefore this argument was not directed at myself. Instead it is your own internal justification.
Now, I am wondering if you realize that any false religion can use the same argument.
Claiming your god is good does not excuse "apparently" immoral acts. This reasoning is only used by scoundrels.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
I know you don't assume that.
You're questioning how a "good" god can allow "immoral" acts. The problem is that these are relative terms. Where you consider this immoral, I don't. I don't, for instance, consider allowing a POW to stay in your house, where the person has to be provided for and protected, and has the rights, when certain conditions are fulfilled, to simply be released, to be "immoral". POW's today aren't exactly treated this way, but somehow you consider them "free"?
P3X018 3 years ago
"You're questioning how a "good" god can allow "immoral" acts."
No. I don't believe in your god. Only that Islam contains immoral acts.
Owning POWs is immoral. Owning the children of your slaves is also immoral.
"Where you consider this immoral, I don't."
That I assumed.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
you need to know more about islam befor you say any thing about it.
tuj1234567 3 years ago
Considering you didn't correct anything I said, that is simply an ad hominem.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
DayfallKat- Yes The Prophet (PBUH) and his companions owned slaves. But they set all their slaves free. They did this to set the example for rest of the society. Slavery was very (very) widespread in pre-Islamic Arabia and it was not something that could have been eradicated overnight. Rather it was done in bits by bits. And where did you get the information that slaves are owned in Middle East until this day under the bearing of Islam?
ahmarsidd 3 years ago
When did I say slave were owned to this day? I do know that some Muslims do advocate owning slaves.
"Rather it was done in bits by bits." 700 years? Hmm, how long did it take North America to eradicate slavery?
DayfallKat 3 years ago
When people hear the word "slavery" they automatically think of the African slavery that was practiced before the appearance of Islam. But it's very clear in the teachings of Islam that the Muslims slave owners had to follow a strict set of rules. If you want to know more about that read the Quran. By the way, the slaves owned by Muslims had the right to buy there freedom back. Peace!
guitarman2677 3 years ago
You mean their children were prisoners of war? Muslims did own the children of their slaves, didn't they?
Prisoners of war are not owned. "A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women." "Slavery was also perceived as a means of converting non-Muslims to Islam."
You are right. Slavery might not be strong enough word for Islamic slaves.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
The slaves that Muslims owned at the time were not racial slaves. They were prisoners of war. And they were treated with dignity and respect and nobody was allowed to mistreat them or force them to do something they are incapable of doing, unlike the European slavery. As a matter of fact, "Slavery" is not an accurate translation, as there is no English word to describe a person who is a prisoner of war, who is owned by a man, and who is treated with dignity and respect.
guitarman2677 3 years ago
1. Financial & Social Security.
2. Protection from hostile environment (Thief,Nomad,etc).
3. Widows, Orphan, and Slaves from the enemy.
Remember that Muhammad S.A.W and his followers did not buy slaves. (for more detail open answering-christianity, /why_slavery(dot)htm)
republikbbm 3 years ago
All of which can be given by other means, like a paid servant. The master owns the children of his slaves so slavery can continue indefinitely even is noone (not just Muhammad and his followers) buys slaves. If you can justify slavery I am wondering what other evil you can justify.
"their whole system of society is collapse."
Yeah, not like Allah can support people being good. "Do good and I will protect you." No. "Do what it takes to survive." Yeah, that is the Islamic god.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
"All of which can be given by other means, like a paid servant." Yes it could have...under your contemporary middle America suburban point of view. You are talking about Arabic peninsula about 1400 years ago. If you were set free there is a very good chance you will get killed by your clan for being a disgrace and losing the war.
ahmarsidd 3 years ago
So they kept slaves so that their own people wouldn't hurt them for being captured? Don't Islamic slaves get food and shelter? Wouldn't it be more just to offer them protection but also allow them to be free?
"there is a very good chance you will get killed by your clan"
You just make this stuff up don't you. Ha, instead of Mercy Killing it is Mercy Slavery.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
last Q, it is in fact Muhammad S.A.W and his follower own slave. Keep in mind that it was 1400 yrs ago,during that time when a "country" loose a war their whole system of society is collapse. That is why there during that time slavery was allowed.
republikbbm 3 years ago
1st Q, it is better to educate your slave than to free them. The problem is education is mandatory in Islam. Sura 96:01, "Recite/Proclaim/Read in the name of thy Lord...". So a muslim slave have to be an educated slave (at least they can read).
republikbbm 3 years ago
You said that slaves have to paid their master to be free, but it is contradictory w/ the Quran Sura 24:33, "...And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you...", the Sura said that not the slave that suppose to pay for the master, it is the master that suppose to pay to the slave.
republikbbm 3 years ago
Muslims are hypocrites.
Rightist2 3 years ago
"When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"
activemuslim 3 years ago
In other words, keep him fed.
Also, irrelevant. I don't' see how that would end slavery. It condones it.
DayfallKat 3 years ago
and just as I predicted, you only accept the ones you like.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
and you insisted they weren't. So I brought them into the discussion.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
By Sura 4:92, it is most likely to mean freeing a Muslim slave.
Reading Bukhari 47.765, it seems that you can't let a slave go, but must give it to someone else.
There is so much slavery in Islam that any non-Muslim won't be fooled.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Of course Christianity allows it; wasn't Jesus a prophet of your god?
"but if the women desired too remain chaste you couldnt for yourselves on them"
Sura and Verse? I haven't looked that up and would be interested to read it.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Sorry, what Muhammad said is irrelevant. (If you want to bring up saying of him then that is fine with me.) Knowing you will only accept good things he said, I only accept Quranic verses.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Why does Islam prescribe DEATH to those that decide to leave Islam if it believes in freedom ?
GodForum 4 years ago
because islam is not only a religion! if it was then its up to u to believe whatever u want.
It is LAW in society! to give up islam doesnt mean u dont want to pray anymore, no. It means u will become an outlaw, people who purposely leave islam stand against the law which protects individuals. What do any country do to outlaws im sure they dont give them a lot of options do they??
But for people who are like, "i dont believe in islam" but they still abide by the law, nobody talks to them.
sonofadam7 4 years ago
That is a cool trick. If I ever decide to make a religion, I'll make sure to say "it is a LAW" that way I can justify killing those that "break the law" Heretics are no longer just unbelievers, but now they are "outlaws".
"who purposely leave islam stand against the law which protects individuals"
In my response to you about slavery; I change me answer. The answer is yes. Your religion is a nasty cult that enslaves it followers. Under penalty of death, they are enslaved.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
because islam is not only a religion! if it was then its up to u to believe whatever u want. It is LAW in society! to give up islam doesnt mean u dont want to pray anymore, no. What do any country do to outlaws im sure they dont give them a lot of options do they??
... But for people who are like, "i dont believe in islam" but they still abide by the law, nobody talks to them.
--------------------------
Check out my 2 mind control videos in my favorites.
GodForum 4 years ago
The fine about freeing slave is an educate fine, this encourage ppl to free slavery, thus this will prove that he is sincere and encourage to do charity. More over the fine will make him think twice before conducting the unlawful/sin.
4rif19nop 4 years ago
If Muhammad was a messenger of Allah and slavery was bad in Islam, why didn't Muhammad free all the slaves under Islam. He was in control of of many of the laws during his time? So why didn't he free the slaves? Plus Muhammad was a slave owner and trader.
NoDebateInIslam 4 years ago 2
he did free the slaves!
where did u get these ideas that he didnt?!
what about the slave bilal? who the was the low of the lowest in the eyes of the non-muslism in mecca. The prophet made him stand on the sacred shrine in mecca to give the call to prayer.
sonofadam7 4 years ago 2
Actually there many North African countries STILL HAD SLAVERY even up to Aug. 2007, when Mauritania, a North African Muslim country, finally under WESTERN PRESSURE, not Muslim, they signed an anti-slavery act.
Yes the slave owners were Arab and the slaves were black.
NoDebateInIslam 4 years ago
So Islam is encouraging people to free slave for free or allow the slave to paid themself to their master (in an amount that the slave can afford and the master is not allowed to reject if their slave is requesting this arrangement). It is all in the Al Quran, but i know that some people do ignore this facts.
4rif19nop 4 years ago
Saudi Arabia doesnt always reflect Islam value.
Not all slave owner is evil n in Islam you should share what you have with them, in those day people buy slave just like we invest nowdays, so it will not be fair for them to just command them to realease their slave. It is the same thing, like you were told to tear apart all your microsoft stock share.
4rif19nop 4 years ago
Slavery is part and parcel of Jihad in Islamic doctrine. However the slaves all down through Islamic History were not taken to be used as laborers, but taken to be used for sex. The men of the village were put to the sword, and the women taken for sex to fill harems etc. Sometimes men were spared the sword to have their genitals completely removed to serve as Eunuchs in guarding the harems. Child slaves were servants mostly, but also used for sex.
such is the law in Islam
jy768 4 years ago
The point is that you came here trying to make it seem like I agreed with slavery. I don't. YOU are the one that has the book that says owing slaves is ok.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
My argument was not that Muslins would go back to slavery. Neither will the Christians.
"We treated our slaves well." Is that the extent of morality in Islam? You do know it is STILL lawful for you to capture for slaves in battle according to Islam.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
My philosophy doesn't account for freeing slaves, because my philosophy doesn't allow to ownership of slaves in the first place.
You religion allows the accumulation of slaves even today. That is unacceptable.
Yes, Americans owned slaves and they were wrong for doing so. Muslims owned slaved and they were wrong for doing so.
You are attacking a straw man.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
You mean they had the option of being free if they were deemed by their masters as being worthy and if they turned Muslim?
I am not sure if atheists had a prophet that kept slaves. Hmm, lets name religions that did.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Slavery or Serfdom
Slave
a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug
serf
Under feudalism, a peasant bound to his lord's land and subject to his lord's will, but entitled to his lord's protection.
qarnain06 4 years ago
So the difference is that a slave is not entitled to his masters protection?
Can you set free a surf?
DayfallKat 4 years ago
If a surf can be "set free", does he get to keep his family?
Can you buy a surf?
DayfallKat 4 years ago
What I was alluding to is that there are two different types of slaves. A slave with rights and a slave that has rights such as owning property ect. Islam made the transition of slaves into serfs and now days there is no slaves. Except the slavery of debt which comes from an interest/usury based banking system. Islam forbids slavery/oppression and Usury
qarnain06 4 years ago
Owning property or not, my arguement still stands.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
This video deserves far more views.
endofthelinejoel 4 years ago
Slavery is illegal in most if not all Islamic countries. As well fatwa isn't a law, it is a stated opinion and isn't judiciary; it does not oblige anyone to anything. I don't know what you're talking about with "lipservice" or "swallow", but sorry, I don't swing that way. I'm not muslim and not being "defensive", I just think your propaganda is bullshit.
WinterXL 4 years ago
Your note is misleading. A couple things: Slavery in Sudan predates Islam. As well, there was open civil war in Sudan for over twenty years; we all know how fucked up war in Africa has been, and the shitty things that are being done. It's also important as counterpoint to note that, Muhammed himself said that he would stand against anyone who enslaved another man. (And I'm not even a Muslim.)
WinterXL 4 years ago
winter, you must be kidding. did you hear the story about mohammad's jewish wife? do you know what happened to her entire tribe and family (including her husband)?
princesszin 4 years ago
princesszin, are you referring to this: Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511:
"So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered Khaybar home by home. The first stronghold defeated was Naim. Next was Qamus, the community of Abi Huqayq. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah bt. Huyayy, the wife of Kinanah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself."
Rhuanjl 4 years ago
I just couldn't believe that winter wrote, that "Muhammed himself said that he would stand against anyone who enslaved another man"
princesszin 4 years ago
I could not find in the Qur'an where it said to not enslave free people. In any case, prisoners of war are certainly fair game. If a non-muslim fights a Muslim and the Muslim can catch him, then yeah, take him as your slave.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
i like ur hair
sofyan 4 years ago
Snow did not mention educated or uneducated slaves. You seem to be twisting words.
mannypatel1 4 years ago
Yes, but the only other way I could take his arguement was that ex-slaves would be out on their own. If this is the case then why would the ex-slave leave? It is assumed that the owner needs the slave for some task. It is also assumed that the slave is given food and shelter. Then should not freed slaves be hired by their previous owners as workers? Except that the slave would no longer be property, nothing would change. The entire socity would operate as usual (except for slave trade).
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Eventually ex-slaves would work themselves out of the "company store." I did not explain this because I thought it would take too long and I thought it was kind of obvious.
Still you are right, I ment education in what it means today. To teach knowlege and skills to make one ready to provide for himself.
DayfallKat 4 years ago
Did you watch Snow's video?
mannypatel1 4 years ago
love the clock chime in the background
InReasonWeTrust 4 years ago
nice to see you back on topic. it's like watching a fav TV show
rd1999 4 years ago