If I recall correctly Samurai were always wearing two blades, where commoners would only be allowed to wear one. Correct me if i am wrong on this one ...
Heck, only now I fully realized what this fraud is actually saying: he claims that straight blades do not cut by design! FUKK, all the people in the world who cut things with a STRAIGHT BLADED MACHETE are grossly deceived! They are surely smashing through things with brute strength and stun all the tree limbs, bushes and plants they "cut" in order to "finish them" with an axe on the ground. Mortal Kombat FTW!
Yes, I do. You dont smash or hack with a machete, you cut with it! I own one, cut lots of stuff, and can say for sure it is a cutter, not a "hacker". A half-circle slicing motion typical for straight bladed swords is needed watch this: -- watch?v=2_P68A9vu2o
@Protherium you hack and chop with a machete. that is its purpose. we could argue about the difference between the words all day. all im saying is that HE wasnt saying that a sharp non curved object "smashs" through something. he was just saying a curved edge is more efficent.
@Protherium I think what he may have meant was that in the design of the samurai blade, the curve caused a cut with more ease, by the edge meeting the surface at one point, then the rest being pulled through......as opposed to what happens with a straight blade, though it cuts for a while just moving it straight, it's more efficient to pull the blade as it's passing through.
Notice how i was talking about the SCIENCE behind swordmaking, while you are talking about some spiritual jibber-jabber nonsense...
If you actually believe that "being one with the sword" will somehow help you overcome technological disparity with some "power of the mind" bullshit, then you're nuts, pure and simple.
Under this premise, you might as well, for example, abandon modern medicine, and entrust your life to some crazy "shaman" hobo, because he's "one with the nature", or some shit...
@Zyamaman shows what you know about "jibber-jabber nonsense". Guess you never heard what they teach in the army... take care of your gun, and your gun will take care of you... This shows clearly that when a person becomes 'one' with there weapon, they they can do great things..
this isnt very accurate info... the curve of the blade actually came from the sword cooling off in water from its high temperature.. not from the hammering...
a sword is like anything else.its all what the indervidual prefers.i like the Katana.but some people like the claymore,,the broadsword.its all what fits the indervidual.so there really is no best its what is better for you.
@pipobun your wrong, if anything the historical samurai swords were better made as they probably spent more time and precision making them. Due to the ancient method of folding the extremely strong steel, the sword wasn't brittle even in the historical times. :)
@Dutchy3223 nope, im not wrong... the extremely strong steel u talk about is actually a submediocre quality steel, japan has low grade deposits. and folding actually makes no difference on the strenght of the steel it actually softens it because it looses carbon in the process. they spent more time because they had to, with the crappy steel and primitive tech. historical katanas weren't even tempered!modern katanas with homogenous tempered blades are definately stronger than the historical ones.
@pipobun The traditional swords were actually better. The forged blade is actually a mixture of metals known only to the blacksmiths, and records of it showed that it cut several live bodies in half with one stroke. No modern blade can do that my friend, and that is why katana blades from centuries ago still exist and remain in good shape.
No modern blade can do that? How are you so sure of this? Aren't you just assuming that because it is not practiced in the modern period that it cannot be done? That's unwise.
Katana still exist in the modern period because they were maintained by generations of japanese people; they rust the same as other steel. Look at the tang of any katana more than a hundred years old. Will you see unblemished, shiny steel? No, you'll see severe rusting in many cases.
For example, go to nihontoantiques (dot) com, and look at their koto selection. Then look at the tangs of the swords; they're all severely rusted out. Why? Well, obviously they're made from the same steel, so the only answer must be that they are not maintained the same way as the blade. Hence, they rusted out, despite the maintenance on the swords over generations.
The "known only to the blacksmith" metals were low carbon steel and high carbon steel, that's it. There's no secrets here, and nothing special about it too - this technique of blademaking (called "steel lamination") is actually the earliest type of steel sword production, and it was practiced all around the world at one time or another.
BTW, modern technologies allow us to produce swords of quality far exceeding that of a traditional katana.
@Zyamaman its about the spirit of the sword . Man is one with the sword ,once u get there no modern technology can stand a chance,the way u think its the oposite of the samurai ideology .brute force = weak and not worthy,
phaha!u couldn't cut with a broadsword because u can't cut chainmail with a sword(heavy falcions excluded):P
also no matter how much soft steel u put behind the hard steel edge,the edge will still chip upon impact,but it will help the sword not break in half.lamination makes the blade prone to faults between the 2 types of steel,which weakens the sword,still better than a blade entirely of hard steel,but not better that a homogeneous blade with well calculated hardness/flexibility :P
Again I'll come back to my main point the sword, carbonsied steel and folding steel are not chinese inventions so the remark of chinese swords into japan was mentioned briefly in the video but thats about it. Oh and try replying to a comment rather than sneeking in an asinine remark on the page thinking I wouldnt come back to the video and when you debate others try not to add an ad hominem attack and if you state the japanese copied anything I can say the same about your culture.
i started off by comparing the samurai sword to the chinese j 20. saying that theyre both copies but received different media coverage. If my intentions were nationalistic why would i even mention the j-20? u were the one who kept bragging about white superiority. (in a mature and non-nationalistic way of course).
your KKK friends must be very proud of what u've said here.
@theaviribidityofwtr lol the race card I was actually waiting for that asinine remark, not only do you have an aloof high ground when it comes to Japan you assume as well. The west has influenced china but so what white people arnt as crass as you to try and gain superiority over another country. That aside I'll spell it out for you hun, no one gives a flying fuck here about chinese swords. keep your nationalistic trolling for another video and nice use of passive agressive sugar britches
You can be disapointed all you want but you started it. At the end of the day the world doesnt care if china introduced carbonised steel to japan, its hardly a chinese invention in the first place. So its not mentioned in any significant way. With your thinking the next chinese video on rice cultivation should include a significant section on the origin of farming from iraq 5000 years ago. china was mentioned but thats it no one cares. your attitude is immature and nationalistic.
@seonidh i'm mainly disappointed at the strong anti- chinese sentiment in the popular media just because china is communist. and since japan is a puppet state buried under american military bases their culture and history is praised here in the west. THAT IS JUST SO IMMATURE =.=
infact western discoveries have changed the world far more with computers, tvs, science, music, literature, film, industry, immunology, medicine, architecture than china has. in fact china copies all this should we somehow get satisfaction in boasting about it? no and neither should you.
@seonidh the west wouldn't have industrialized if they didn't boost their economy with vast colonization. and they achieved this by using two chinese inventions: the compass and gunpowder. so what? that doesn't prove that east asians are superior. those inventions were just stepping stones for even further technological development. race doesn't even matter. if technology transfer is forbidden then we'd still be in the dark ages.
@theaviribidityofwtr No a common misconception Chinese discovered magnetism Thales the Greek commented on the loadstone in the 6th century BC. As for the compass and gunpowder being a prerequesit for the modern world you did nothing with it for 2000 years a waste in your hands. Even then the compass or a magnitized needle may have been invented in europe without chinese influences in the 12th century. Europe had the compass technology 100 years before the Arabs.
Though the katana is a fine blade, the primary weapon of the battle field were the spear, halbread, and bow. the sword was secoundary and only really beacame as we know it today during the time of peace the Edo period. During this time much of the populace became very urban and the samurai used their swords for self defense or contest of glory such as Mymoto Musashi or Sasaki Kojiro. Most of the Samurais time was spent Working in their assigned area of employment, drinking and playing.
but ofcourse the mongals had been ravaged by the sea most were sick or injured from the storm, nearly half of the invasion force was at the bottom of the sea of japan.
the curve existed because the original chinese "zhanmadao" was for cutting horses travelling at high speed. The curve helped keep it stable. The japanese just copied the design and cut everything with it.
and eurpeans were not complete idiots.
what? a sword becomes useless if it doesn't have a curve? WTF =.=
The human body is not flat and a slight curve will not make a difference.
Wrong, the japanese also designed the ninja-to which is not curved. Because Slashing was not it't purpose. The curve means that when you swing it, the blade SLICES through, which is what you need. Ever used a paper cutter, same principle.
There was more to the Ninja-to than the Chinese straight edge blade geometry. The point being they didn't just copy what others were doing arbitrarily, they knew what they were doing.
@pimpdalyrical thats like saying there's more to the Mitsubishi F-2 than the American F-16 Fighting Falcon geometry shape w/e. The point being it's a copy.
And they stole the fighting staff from the nomads and Indians, and sword making from somebody else entirely. So what? The point being The curve of a Katana wasn't for stability on horseback, it was for slicing through armored limbs, while on foot.
Your insinuation seemed to be that the Katana was curved soleley because they saaw it in Chinese swords. Obviously wrong, since they correctly applied other designs aswell.
You don't, I wasnt challenging the chinese origin of Many things in ancient Japanese culture, just the insinuation that they were just morons who didn't understand what the chinese had done, or improved upon them.
@pimpdalyrical actually even then carbonised steel is hardly a chinese invention the saxons, spanish and arabs were all carbonizing steel. japan refined the process to this sword. japanese sword design and the katana were refined after the mongol/chinese invasion so even then the japanese sword developed due to japanese refignment of the sword. its only chinese nationalists that will make the crass claim this technology is chinese.
japan copied Chinese words, clothing, and architecture as well.
@theaviribidityofwtr do you look down on the japanese with some sort of chinese nationalism? really the sword, carbonized steel, folding a blade is not a chinese invention just look at the saxon scleat blades. also farming was invented in iraq and chinese people adopted that. as for copying clothing, science, discoveries and architecture as well china has done that in european culture science and you dont see us boasting about it.
@seonidh no i'm not looking down on the japanese. I actually support the spread of technology/ culture from place to place. i'm just disgusted by this VIDEO, and the lack of credit they gave to the chinese. they just toss in a phrase "the origins are chinese but..." just to minimally satisfy historical accuracy.
In contrast whenever china adopts foreign technology, the media shouts bloody murder about copy, patent infringement and plagiarism. wtf . . .
I went to japan for a year and traveled and stayed at as many mountain villages i could, i got put to work and there was people walking with swords doing meditation felt like i was in a movie so amazing
@TheManGuyDude Really? Do you know what Mortars are? They are mobile infantry artillery. OF COURSE YOU CAN CARRY THEM!!!!! Thats the point of Mortars. Good luck
@TheManGuyDude LOL the whole point is this. Get all these Samurai together and a few well placed rounds from a mortar would end their life. Good luck to ya
@cwood4ever The same could be said, get the samurai close to the mortar guys, and we'll see who does the life ending. And I'm pretty sure mortar ain't a close range weapon.
@TheManGuyDude what if what if what if what if, ok ummmm so they have some machine gunners shooting them as they charge or have napalm dropped. MY GOD ITS THE POINT OF IT. Are we really gonna keep arguing this lol? Dont bring a sword to a gun fight how about that one?
@Bjarku stainless steel but other than that no. imagine a samuri sword made of titanium, adamantium or even orhicalum. note the last two metals dont exist at least yet
@sam94541 They used tamahagane, which is refined in a bloomerie called tatara fuled by coal dust and iron sand. This produces a lump of metal with inhomogenous carbonisation called sponge iron. Then they take pices of low carbon content (soft) and high carbon content (hard) and the rest is history.
oh, so for the reasons mentioned, THAT'S why Beatrix Kiddo's weapon on Kill Bill chopped up all OR Ren's goons' swords like they had absolutely nothing! All right!!
Europeans invented pattern welding and the most effective furnace technology known at those times. India and later Persia have developed crucible steel, praised even by Romans for their quality. Central Asia and China made blades which could withstand extreme abuse.
As you see, there are many very good blades made in the last 3000 years on Earth which could match and even beat the katana in particular fields of application. ;)) No racism needed
The Japanese weren't like that at all with war... They had good people and bad people just like any country. We piggybacked the concept of honour and belief to hide the ugly, universal truth - Thirst for dominance and monetary gain. Dont glorify the sins of the past, they are just as ugly as the present, you just have to do your research. You obviously dont know the utterly inhumanly evil ways the Japanese treated POWs, there is NO honour behind that. Just an insane, twisted belief.
Wow, thanks for adding your hasty generalizations based upon your utterly BIASED Western mentality. "Just an insane, twisted belief." Ha, that alone shows how ethnocentric you are. I'd elaborate on your biases, but I think your insane, twisted ego can't see beyond your thick head. Truth be told, I actually see some level of jealousy from your comments; I bet you've had enough of the glorification of nihontou, maybe because Europe didn't invent it, right? Bwahahaha! LOSER!
Yes, the sword is good. I mean.. Why wouldn't it be? But is it like the nuclear weapon of the swords? No.. It's more that the Japanese are very good at practicing. And if a Japanese practice with a weapon like this, it becomes very deadly. But I guess they could have been equally deadly with other weapons. The laminate way of making a sword was done in Europe too, the Arabs had curved swords, it has all been done. The difference is the Japanese soldier.
Mr. Chambers seem not to know how to fence with cutting swords (except modern flimsy foils), there is just no other excuse for his fantasies about "a sword heavy enough for parry other blades". And european swords (of which he surely thinks they weighted 40 pounds) were not heavy enough? Let aside the fact that NO ONE fighting manual from 1300 until 16th ct. teaches edge-to-edge-parries!
Mr. Chambers, please read some books from Oakeshott, Clements and Alan Williams! For God's sake!..
Shame on you Mr. Chambers, SHAME ON YOU! Do you have the slightest idea about Historical European Martial Arts?! NO, you're a epee-foil-fencer, you even don't know how to grip and wield an arming sword properly! You have no clue of what the shield really was! Your theory "straight blades do not cut" is PURE IGNORANT BULLSH*T!
I like the Japanese mentality toward war much better. "I'm fighting for my beliefs, you're fighting for yours. I respect you, but I need to kill you. may the best man win"
i totally agree, its very respectful. it has a lot of honour and valor in it. unlike todays menatily which is blow everything up and think about consequences later.
mate, not how they fought, its what you fight for man. the sumari sword represents a whole fundermental concept in japanese society that doesnt exist anymore. and i guess that chopping off soldiers heads isnt that painful compared to the many other ways soldiers were tortued and then killed. war has no morals
@raigekimaru oh fuck you!! u certainly never heard of WW2 in the pacific!! JAPANESE FUCKING MONKEYS RAPE HUNDREDS OF WOMEN IN THE PHILIPPINES EVERYDAY those women were called comfort women!! Japanese warrior are fucking brutal to losers since they think all losers should commit harakiri!!
Dont glorify one race because of what you see in animes or movies. The Japanese mentality to war was just as fiendish as any others, in fact many of the most horrifying true stories are because of the atrocities committed to POWS by Japan throughout the ages. There is no honour in war, the closest we can get to honour is a necessary evil. The fact is back then the Japanese were no different to us, they went to war for monetary gain and dominance like everyone else. Get real.
"Greatest weapon ever" - but just in our minds influenced by mass media. But in fact there were great swords made all around the world. Sadly, the very most of these traditions (european, oriental, indian) died out.
@vigo894 im with you pal, swords in malls are stupid,. specially those super shinning swords they sell,. pathetic manufactureres who dont know how exactly good sword looks likeT_T
The Mongol launched two attacks, one of them was stopped by the Kami-Kaze, the other one resulted in direct battle in which the Japanese fended off the Mongols.
James Williams with an Albion arming sword replica:
-- watch?v=_VkIIj-kyvQ
James Williams is a formidable professional swordsman who exactly knows how the swords are working.
And once again - the "superiority" of the katana is a modern myth which was created in the 50-s and 60-s by cinematography and the "old times-reviving hype."
Woah, they got it all wrong, the samurai were badly defeated at Hakata Bay and both sides ended up retreating. when the mongols reutrned i think 7 years later a fierce storm wiped them out. It was the storm that won the war not the sword.
i used to rave about katanas and have handled some of my countrys swords (england) they are light versatile (same cutting power but the heavy end could also be used to deal terrible amounts of blunt damage with the pommel
I assure you, European swords never had the same cutting power as legitimate katanas. If they seemed to, to you, it's probably due to user error. No offense.
A modern replica made from modern carbon steel. Seems to be very sharp.
There is no historical or archaeological evidence that euro swords were blunter than katana. Sources from Early and High Middle Ages are clearly takling about "sharpness" as a basic feature of a sword.
The opinion that a sword made for mail armour cutting HAVE TO be blunt is a misconception of the 19th cent. fencers. Keeping perpetuating even today.
Well, if it's made from high carbon steel then it should be perfectly capable of holding a razor sharp edge. As I understand it, though, it's the shape of the Katana blade, as well, that makes it such a competent cutter. European swords are thicker and taper at a different grade to the edge, hence they hack more than they actually slice. The simply force their way through a material. I'm no professional, mind you; just an martial artist and armchair military historian.
katanas were made of a special type of steel found only in japan, that's why it is sharder then european swords. As well as the shape like you had stated and the motion and technique used to swing it
There is only one type of carbon steel worldwide; carbon steel! ;) Japanese steel tamahagane has only little amounts of phosphorus and sulfur, and that's made this steel of good quality. Good quality steel DOES NOT mean it is any kind of "superior" to all carbon steels. And sharpness is only determined by carbon content and proper tempering. Not purity of steel.
European swords were used with finesse. Source: medieval fighting manuals. Watch the channel of ShooterMikeSBG. And you will see.
1/4 inch wouldn't be uncommon for a katana, while 3/16 is standard for many European swords, which like the katana were often tapered distally, and were sometimes hollow ground.
If you mean wider, then yes, until the renaissance most European blades were wider (at the hilt) than the katana. Most weren't really optimized for hacking or chopping over cutting or slicing though due to being balanced close to the hilt to aid in the point control needed for thrusts. That's what polearms were for.
The thick blade and appleseed geometry of a katana isn't an issue with soft targets, but the thicker blades of the katana need to push aside too much material to make them effective at slicing through armor. Most katana can't even slice through chainmail reliably (though they can pierce it easily enough). To be fair though, many European sword designs can't cut through mail effectively either.
Lol, I can confirm that. That was just the topic of an episode of "Lock N' Load" that I watched on the Military Channel about an hour ago. None of the swords they tested were able to effectively penetrate the armor, but the katana faired measurably better than the long sword they compared it with.
Did they took a good functional longsword replica? Or just a stage combat "look-a-like"? I also have seen some documentaries where they had no true swords at all.
Honestly, I had the same question but they didn't make it clear. Both the katana and the longsword, however, were forged from the same steel. The showed the smith doing it and it was the same guy who made both. He seemed to know his stuff. So I guess, in that sense, that should even say more of the katana, since legitimate katana were generally forged from superior steel.
Actually, katana are generally /not/ forged from superior steel. They were forged from a base material which was actually inferior to that which European smiths were working with after the 12th-13th centuries, when the blast furnace hit the scene enabling Europeans to make more consistent, high quality steel. This is why the Japanese, and earlier Europeans, both had to 'fold' the steel, in order to even out the distribution of elements therein.
"Seemed to know" his stuff doesn't mean anything when your audience has little knowledge of actual European swords. There are numerous flaws with that episode of Lock and Load (Aside him R. Lee having no swordsmanship knowledge). For instance, when he was testing cuts against leather armor he used an /underhanded/ cut against the leather armor with the European sword, and an /overhanded/ cut with the katana. Overhanded cuts are much more damaging than underhanded cuts, as per common sense.
Likewise, we don't know /anything/ about the two swords being tested, rendering that test invalid.
What was the carbon content of the two swords?
How did they harden each one?
Did they temper properly?
What exactly was the cross section of the two swords?
Edge bevel?
Weight?
Likewise, why does one rough example from each /class/ serve as a representation of a wide family of swords? There is huge variety in both sword types, so why use such an arbitrary, limited sampling?
Now, there are also the numerous errors throughout the show, which make me skeptical of everything presented therein.
For instance, they refer to the Longbow as being like a "sniper rifle", used to selectively pick out targets. However, historically the Longbow was used in mass formation, firing at an /area/ with rapid fire and not at specific targets with precision and accuracy. This is far more like a modern "machine gun".
Likewise, they try and argue that hardening (Which they erroneously refer to as "tempering" in the case of the katana) appeared in the 10th century. We have quench-hardened Frankish swords from the 5th-9th centuries, hundreds of years before their claim. I think we even have some in the Roman era if I remember properly.
And then we have another concern. The sword they used seems to have a flattened diamond cross section, and he seems to be trying to imitate the later era thrusting oriented swords. Now, there is a distinct problem here. The diamond shaped, thrusting oriented swords were /very/ stiff. They shouldn't be flexing as much as they were, so this makes me wonder just how they made it.
And this is really the crux of the issue. I'm going to quote something I found on a forum I frequent.
"In the end, the test is not very meaningful since two random swords of unknown origin hardly qualify as representative of the wider variety of blade forms grouped under "longsword" or "katana."" -Gabriel Lebec
In essence, we don't know the first thing about either sword, so both are unreliable for the test.
An Oakeshott type XVI is different from a XXa, is different from a XVIII.
Likewise, a 'shinto' style katana is different from a 'koto' katana, is different from a 'shinshinto'.
Yep. You've confirmed what I already suspected, and that is that I really don't know $#!+ about this stuff. I have done enough reading to have more than common knowledge of the two, but my knowledge is definitely not very thorough. It's also notable that the person swinging them was not trained, and therefore, not competent with either one. If anything, it is vaguely revealing about the characteristics of the geometry of the two and the differences that makes in their cutting ability.
Well, the cutting and thrusting tests were both invalid from what I saw. The longsword being used seemed like they were trying to have a weird not-quite-right thrusting sword that was too flexible. This is naturally deficient in the cut and thrust.
As shown in the leather-test, he used two completely different cuts for the swords, invalidating it.
On the ice block, he struck the ice block with the lower half of the European sword, while striking with the upper half of the Japanese sword.
I think maybe there's a misunderstanding. The video I'm referring to is not this one. It's a very similar episode I saw on military channel with L. Emery (I think that's his name).
The exact opposite, actually. European swords tend to have very dramatic distal taper, meaning the swords are almost leaf thin at the end (exceptions do exist, such as manny hollow-ground swords). The katana has very little distal taper, meaning it more or less retains its thickness throughout. Going by blade geometry alone, the European swords would be sharper. But edge hardness is also a factor, and the Japanese tend to go for overkill with their sharpening.
Samurai swords are fucking awesome. This show is not. Sword "experts" who can barley lift a sword, historical raping, and blatant bias. Discovery channel EPIC FAIL. Discovery channel producer to boss, "Sir, we fucked up this show real bad, what do we do?" "Go get Sean Bean."
"""If you have a "crusader" sword it will hit with the entire blade at the same time and that's not good."""
The correct technique of the european one-hander is this one: hold the sword and strike the target with the percussion point (not the whole blade!) keeping an angle of 10-40°. When hitting, draw the sword backwards producing a slice motion. If used in this way, a sharp replica can easily cut through tatami, meat and bottles.
Using swords like a baseball club is NOT a proper technique.
Deadly blade!
BronzeEmpress 3 weeks ago
If I recall correctly Samurai were always wearing two blades, where commoners would only be allowed to wear one. Correct me if i am wrong on this one ...
Agindacake 1 month ago
Its actually Sean Bean.
arbeia76 1 month ago
OMG MARTIN SEPTIM
MrGUYWITHFACE 2 months ago
3:35
Heck, only now I fully realized what this fraud is actually saying: he claims that straight blades do not cut by design! FUKK, all the people in the world who cut things with a STRAIGHT BLADED MACHETE are grossly deceived! They are surely smashing through things with brute strength and stun all the tree limbs, bushes and plants they "cut" in order to "finish them" with an axe on the ground. Mortal Kombat FTW!
Protherium 2 months ago
@Protherium you know cutting and chopping are different right?
attackoftherandom 1 month ago
@attackoftherandom
Yes, I do. You dont smash or hack with a machete, you cut with it! I own one, cut lots of stuff, and can say for sure it is a cutter, not a "hacker". A half-circle slicing motion typical for straight bladed swords is needed watch this: -- watch?v=2_P68A9vu2o
Protherium 1 month ago
@Protherium you hack and chop with a machete. that is its purpose. we could argue about the difference between the words all day. all im saying is that HE wasnt saying that a sharp non curved object "smashs" through something. he was just saying a curved edge is more efficent.
attackoftherandom 2 weeks ago
@Protherium I think what he may have meant was that in the design of the samurai blade, the curve caused a cut with more ease, by the edge meeting the surface at one point, then the rest being pulled through......as opposed to what happens with a straight blade, though it cuts for a while just moving it straight, it's more efficient to pull the blade as it's passing through.
BatmanProject777 1 day ago
The intro fo Decisive Weapons is awesome!!
Loved watching it all those years ago on BBC2!!
TheBlackSpider82 2 months ago
Slice abd dice
torsnume 4 months ago
The narrator is the same as Martin Uriel Septim's in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion!!!
mummoforce 4 months ago 10
@mummoforce
lol so right, your a beast for knowing that dood
lovetownsend 4 months ago
@mummoforce OMFG you're right!
schmaleanator 4 months ago
Notice how i was talking about the SCIENCE behind swordmaking, while you are talking about some spiritual jibber-jabber nonsense...
If you actually believe that "being one with the sword" will somehow help you overcome technological disparity with some "power of the mind" bullshit, then you're nuts, pure and simple.
Under this premise, you might as well, for example, abandon modern medicine, and entrust your life to some crazy "shaman" hobo, because he's "one with the nature", or some shit...
Zyamaman 5 months ago
@Zyamaman shows what you know about "jibber-jabber nonsense". Guess you never heard what they teach in the army... take care of your gun, and your gun will take care of you... This shows clearly that when a person becomes 'one' with there weapon, they they can do great things..
statesrights01 5 months ago 3
@statesrights01
What does any of that has to do with what I said?
Zyamaman 5 months ago
(Posted by Youtube Stream for iPhone (yst.me) on behalf of takafuku23 at twitter)
ystme 6 months ago
ディスカバリーともあろうものが嘘ついちゃいかんよ。
第二次大戦で日本は敗北したから勝者の歴史を押し付けられてるだけ。
ちゃんと時代考証しろ。
10past100 6 months ago
Long Live The SAMURAI!!!!!!!!!
billvw1974 8 months ago
@billvw1974 Too bad there all dead =[
CrimsonGetsu 7 months ago
this isnt very accurate info... the curve of the blade actually came from the sword cooling off in water from its high temperature.. not from the hammering...
CrimsonGetsu 7 months ago
a sword is like anything else.its all what the indervidual prefers.i like the Katana.but some people like the claymore,,the broadsword.its all what fits the indervidual.so there really is no best its what is better for you.
billvw1974 9 months ago
and another thing ... historical katanas were brittle weapons ;)
don't judge them by todays katanas made with modern steel using a modern method :P
still a neat design : )
pipobun 9 months ago
@pipobun your wrong, if anything the historical samurai swords were better made as they probably spent more time and precision making them. Due to the ancient method of folding the extremely strong steel, the sword wasn't brittle even in the historical times. :)
Dutchy3223 8 months ago
@Dutchy3223 nope, im not wrong... the extremely strong steel u talk about is actually a submediocre quality steel, japan has low grade deposits. and folding actually makes no difference on the strenght of the steel it actually softens it because it looses carbon in the process. they spent more time because they had to, with the crappy steel and primitive tech. historical katanas weren't even tempered!modern katanas with homogenous tempered blades are definately stronger than the historical ones.
pipobun 8 months ago
@pipobun The traditional swords were actually better. The forged blade is actually a mixture of metals known only to the blacksmiths, and records of it showed that it cut several live bodies in half with one stroke. No modern blade can do that my friend, and that is why katana blades from centuries ago still exist and remain in good shape.
CrimsonGetsu 7 months ago
@CrimsonGetsu
No modern blade can do that? How are you so sure of this? Aren't you just assuming that because it is not practiced in the modern period that it cannot be done? That's unwise.
Katana still exist in the modern period because they were maintained by generations of japanese people; they rust the same as other steel. Look at the tang of any katana more than a hundred years old. Will you see unblemished, shiny steel? No, you'll see severe rusting in many cases.
Caliburnis 7 months ago
@CrimsonGetsu
For example, go to nihontoantiques (dot) com, and look at their koto selection. Then look at the tangs of the swords; they're all severely rusted out. Why? Well, obviously they're made from the same steel, so the only answer must be that they are not maintained the same way as the blade. Hence, they rusted out, despite the maintenance on the swords over generations.
Caliburnis 7 months ago
@Caliburnis they dont maintain it on purpose, to prove it's age and heritage.
sorejack 7 months ago
@sorejack
True; but the claim I was addressing was that the condition of the blades today is evidence of the superior metallurgy used in Japanese swords.
Caliburnis 7 months ago
@CrimsonGetsu
You are talking nonsense.
The "known only to the blacksmith" metals were low carbon steel and high carbon steel, that's it. There's no secrets here, and nothing special about it too - this technique of blademaking (called "steel lamination") is actually the earliest type of steel sword production, and it was practiced all around the world at one time or another.
BTW, modern technologies allow us to produce swords of quality far exceeding that of a traditional katana.
Zyamaman 6 months ago in playlist Samurai sword making
@Zyamaman its about the spirit of the sword . Man is one with the sword ,once u get there no modern technology can stand a chance,the way u think its the oposite of the samurai ideology .brute force = weak and not worthy,
Silenz1oStampa 5 months ago
phaha!u couldn't cut with a broadsword because u can't cut chainmail with a sword(heavy falcions excluded):P
also no matter how much soft steel u put behind the hard steel edge,the edge will still chip upon impact,but it will help the sword not break in half.lamination makes the blade prone to faults between the 2 types of steel,which weakens the sword,still better than a blade entirely of hard steel,but not better that a homogeneous blade with well calculated hardness/flexibility :P
pipobun 9 months ago
Sean Bean gives the Katan street cred, lol
Zero8880 9 months ago
Again I'll come back to my main point the sword, carbonsied steel and folding steel are not chinese inventions so the remark of chinese swords into japan was mentioned briefly in the video but thats about it. Oh and try replying to a comment rather than sneeking in an asinine remark on the page thinking I wouldnt come back to the video and when you debate others try not to add an ad hominem attack and if you state the japanese copied anything I can say the same about your culture.
seonidh 9 months ago
i started off by comparing the samurai sword to the chinese j 20. saying that theyre both copies but received different media coverage. If my intentions were nationalistic why would i even mention the j-20? u were the one who kept bragging about white superiority. (in a mature and non-nationalistic way of course).
your KKK friends must be very proud of what u've said here.
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr lol the race card I was actually waiting for that asinine remark, not only do you have an aloof high ground when it comes to Japan you assume as well. The west has influenced china but so what white people arnt as crass as you to try and gain superiority over another country. That aside I'll spell it out for you hun, no one gives a flying fuck here about chinese swords. keep your nationalistic trolling for another video and nice use of passive agressive sugar britches
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh aww sowwie little guy. did i hurt ur feelings? D=
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr no cup cake but nice try of irony go troll another page no one gives a shit sugar britches
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh gosh, so much negativity. . .
you're a nice person. i bet you're just misunderstood =D
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr aww flower such kindness from a troll
seonidh 9 months ago
Comment removed
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@seonidh still calling ppl names because you're upset? =(
it's ok jesus loves u no matter wut! =D
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr awww thank you cupcake and no I dont believe in Jesus at least I do have freedom of religion if I wish unlike certain countries.
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh Ur welcome =)
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr okay flower
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh k w/e man
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr not at all cupcake ;)
seonidh 9 months ago
You can be disapointed all you want but you started it. At the end of the day the world doesnt care if china introduced carbonised steel to japan, its hardly a chinese invention in the first place. So its not mentioned in any significant way. With your thinking the next chinese video on rice cultivation should include a significant section on the origin of farming from iraq 5000 years ago. china was mentioned but thats it no one cares. your attitude is immature and nationalistic.
seonidh 9 months ago
Comment removed
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@theaviribidityofwtr the truth hurts doesnt it.
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh i'm mainly disappointed at the strong anti- chinese sentiment in the popular media just because china is communist. and since japan is a puppet state buried under american military bases their culture and history is praised here in the west. THAT IS JUST SO IMMATURE =.=
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
infact western discoveries have changed the world far more with computers, tvs, science, music, literature, film, industry, immunology, medicine, architecture than china has. in fact china copies all this should we somehow get satisfaction in boasting about it? no and neither should you.
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh the west wouldn't have industrialized if they didn't boost their economy with vast colonization. and they achieved this by using two chinese inventions: the compass and gunpowder. so what? that doesn't prove that east asians are superior. those inventions were just stepping stones for even further technological development. race doesn't even matter. if technology transfer is forbidden then we'd still be in the dark ages.
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr No a common misconception Chinese discovered magnetism Thales the Greek commented on the loadstone in the 6th century BC. As for the compass and gunpowder being a prerequesit for the modern world you did nothing with it for 2000 years a waste in your hands. Even then the compass or a magnitized needle may have been invented in europe without chinese influences in the 12th century. Europe had the compass technology 100 years before the Arabs.
seonidh 9 months ago
Though the katana is a fine blade, the primary weapon of the battle field were the spear, halbread, and bow. the sword was secoundary and only really beacame as we know it today during the time of peace the Edo period. During this time much of the populace became very urban and the samurai used their swords for self defense or contest of glory such as Mymoto Musashi or Sasaki Kojiro. Most of the Samurais time was spent Working in their assigned area of employment, drinking and playing.
toxi87 10 months ago
but ofcourse the mongals had been ravaged by the sea most were sick or injured from the storm, nearly half of the invasion force was at the bottom of the sea of japan.
toxi87 10 months ago
Great fighting weapon*
CaramelLitegloss 10 months ago
I love the Japanese sword it is one weapon i would use.
vash121086 10 months ago
The SaMEWrai huh? Really? SaMEEEWrai indeed. MIOW!
therandygoat 10 months ago
WOOOWWWWWW
THE KATANA IS AS ORIGINAL AS THE J 20 STEALTH JET
the curve existed because the original chinese "zhanmadao" was for cutting horses travelling at high speed. The curve helped keep it stable. The japanese just copied the design and cut everything with it.
and eurpeans were not complete idiots.
what? a sword becomes useless if it doesn't have a curve? WTF =.=
The human body is not flat and a slight curve will not make a difference.
theaviribidityofwtr 10 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr of course it makes a difference.
pencil1ist 10 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr
Wrong, the japanese also designed the ninja-to which is not curved. Because Slashing was not it't purpose. The curve means that when you swing it, the blade SLICES through, which is what you need. Ever used a paper cutter, same principle.
pimpdalyrical 10 months ago
@pimpdalyrical The japanese DESIGNED the ninja-to? o_O
. . . more like designed by Tang dynasty chinese and then replicated by the japanese.
theaviribidityofwtr 10 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr
There was more to the Ninja-to than the Chinese straight edge blade geometry. The point being they didn't just copy what others were doing arbitrarily, they knew what they were doing.
pimpdalyrical 10 months ago
@pimpdalyrical thats like saying there's more to the Mitsubishi F-2 than the American F-16 Fighting Falcon geometry shape w/e. The point being it's a copy.
theaviribidityofwtr 10 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr
And they stole the fighting staff from the nomads and Indians, and sword making from somebody else entirely. So what? The point being The curve of a Katana wasn't for stability on horseback, it was for slicing through armored limbs, while on foot.
Your insinuation seemed to be that the Katana was curved soleley because they saaw it in Chinese swords. Obviously wrong, since they correctly applied other designs aswell.
pimpdalyrical 10 months ago
@pimpdalyrical
ok sure, the zhanmadao design is also good for slicing through armor
who said a single design can't have 2 advantages?
and my insinuation is based on the fact that
1. the two swords are exactly the same in shape. (differences only in size and decoration)
2. no other sword in THE WORLD looks even remotely similar to the zhanmadao
3. japan copied Chinese words, clothing, and architecture as well.
COME ON why do i even have to go this far to proving something so obvious =.=
theaviribidityofwtr 10 months ago
@theaviribidityofwtr
You don't, I wasnt challenging the chinese origin of Many things in ancient Japanese culture, just the insinuation that they were just morons who didn't understand what the chinese had done, or improved upon them.
pimpdalyrical 10 months ago
@pimpdalyrical actually even then carbonised steel is hardly a chinese invention the saxons, spanish and arabs were all carbonizing steel. japan refined the process to this sword. japanese sword design and the katana were refined after the mongol/chinese invasion so even then the japanese sword developed due to japanese refignment of the sword. its only chinese nationalists that will make the crass claim this technology is chinese.
seonidh 9 months ago
japan copied Chinese words, clothing, and architecture as well.
@theaviribidityofwtr do you look down on the japanese with some sort of chinese nationalism? really the sword, carbonized steel, folding a blade is not a chinese invention just look at the saxon scleat blades. also farming was invented in iraq and chinese people adopted that. as for copying clothing, science, discoveries and architecture as well china has done that in european culture science and you dont see us boasting about it.
seonidh 9 months ago
@seonidh no i'm not looking down on the japanese. I actually support the spread of technology/ culture from place to place. i'm just disgusted by this VIDEO, and the lack of credit they gave to the chinese. they just toss in a phrase "the origins are chinese but..." just to minimally satisfy historical accuracy.
In contrast whenever china adopts foreign technology, the media shouts bloody murder about copy, patent infringement and plagiarism. wtf . . .
theaviribidityofwtr 9 months ago
Hah, they got lucky with the 'devine' wind.. in other words, bad weather. The Mongols would have sliced and diced them to pieces.
at1212b 11 months ago
chinese origins? LOL the chinese are indeed great inventors who charge no patent fees.
aegirer 11 months ago
I went to japan for a year and traveled and stayed at as many mountain villages i could, i got put to work and there was people walking with swords doing meditation felt like i was in a movie so amazing
0neINC 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Katana has no CHANCE WITH POLISH HUSSAR SABRE FROM 1630!!!
The best white weapon ever is Polish cavalry hussar sabre from 1630!!! It is the best fencing weapon ever!!!
look here:
/watch?v=pHP4pSQvbxk
/watch?v=n6IcZnx1flI
/watch?v=voxErBJyFuw
GregorMar 1 year ago
Stupid Samuri a few well places mortar rounds would be the victor.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
@cwood4ever Too bad they never came up with that ingenious idea.
BadMartini 1 year ago
@cwood4ever Can you even carry a mortar?
TheManGuyDude 11 months ago
@TheManGuyDude Really? Do you know what Mortars are? They are mobile infantry artillery. OF COURSE YOU CAN CARRY THEM!!!!! Thats the point of Mortars. Good luck
cwood4ever 11 months ago
@cwood4ever There's something call google and you can be sure I've used it. And yeah, you can carry them... if you have a few guys with you that is.
TheManGuyDude 11 months ago
@TheManGuyDude LOL the whole point is this. Get all these Samurai together and a few well placed rounds from a mortar would end their life. Good luck to ya
cwood4ever 11 months ago
@cwood4ever The same could be said, get the samurai close to the mortar guys, and we'll see who does the life ending. And I'm pretty sure mortar ain't a close range weapon.
TheManGuyDude 11 months ago
@TheManGuyDude what if what if what if what if, ok ummmm so they have some machine gunners shooting them as they charge or have napalm dropped. MY GOD ITS THE POINT OF IT. Are we really gonna keep arguing this lol? Dont bring a sword to a gun fight how about that one?
cwood4ever 11 months ago
@cwood4ever ya, right now it's machine guns + mortars vs swords ONLY. the winner is obvious.
TheManGuyDude 11 months ago
which kind of metal use in samuri sword (which type of steel)
sam94541 1 year ago
@sam94541 ...steel, that's the kind of metal. are there different kinds of steel?
Bjarku 1 year ago
@Bjarku stainless steel but other than that no. imagine a samuri sword made of titanium, adamantium or even orhicalum. note the last two metals dont exist at least yet
HyperMoeMan 1 year ago
@sam94541 They used tamahagane, which is refined in a bloomerie called tatara fuled by coal dust and iron sand. This produces a lump of metal with inhomogenous carbonisation called sponge iron. Then they take pices of low carbon content (soft) and high carbon content (hard) and the rest is history.
BadMartini 1 year ago
@sam94541 Plastic.
Flashlight1996 1 year ago
oh, so for the reasons mentioned, THAT'S why Beatrix Kiddo's weapon on Kill Bill chopped up all OR Ren's goons' swords like they had absolutely nothing! All right!!
Machinegunkelly6000 1 year ago
Sam your eye
NearDeathExperienc 1 year ago
3:54
Mr. Chambers, there is a man who says different.
-- watch?v=-SOz9WTpo_U#t=2m50s
LOLOLOLOLOL
Protherium 1 year ago
The real Jedi.
5PYZ3R 1 year ago
i think that is the best sword ever created in history they are strong light n extremly sharp . i would like to collect one
MrTangankanan 1 year ago
Is the Narrator Sean Bean? If so, that's awesome!
Robofish12 1 year ago
""maybe because Europe didn't invent it, right?""
Europeans invented pattern welding and the most effective furnace technology known at those times. India and later Persia have developed crucible steel, praised even by Romans for their quality. Central Asia and China made blades which could withstand extreme abuse.
As you see, there are many very good blades made in the last 3000 years on Earth which could match and even beat the katana in particular fields of application. ;)) No racism needed
Protherium 1 year ago 2
The Japanese weren't like that at all with war... They had good people and bad people just like any country. We piggybacked the concept of honour and belief to hide the ugly, universal truth - Thirst for dominance and monetary gain. Dont glorify the sins of the past, they are just as ugly as the present, you just have to do your research. You obviously dont know the utterly inhumanly evil ways the Japanese treated POWs, there is NO honour behind that. Just an insane, twisted belief.
DukeHyphington 1 year ago
@DukeHyphington:
Wow, thanks for adding your hasty generalizations based upon your utterly BIASED Western mentality. "Just an insane, twisted belief." Ha, that alone shows how ethnocentric you are. I'd elaborate on your biases, but I think your insane, twisted ego can't see beyond your thick head. Truth be told, I actually see some level of jealousy from your comments; I bet you've had enough of the glorification of nihontou, maybe because Europe didn't invent it, right? Bwahahaha! LOSER!
kiminiaitakute 1 year ago
Yes, the sword is good. I mean.. Why wouldn't it be? But is it like the nuclear weapon of the swords? No.. It's more that the Japanese are very good at practicing. And if a Japanese practice with a weapon like this, it becomes very deadly. But I guess they could have been equally deadly with other weapons. The laminate way of making a sword was done in Europe too, the Arabs had curved swords, it has all been done. The difference is the Japanese soldier.
stygn 1 year ago
i believe that the samurai sword (katana) is the deadliest sword or weapon in the world.
sasukeuchiha11123 1 year ago
"Boradswords were primarily thrusting weapons and did not cut, but knocked out their opponent" © Mr. James Chambers
-- watch?v=OEjEfrFmSqQ
Watch ans learn....
Protherium 1 year ago
4:48
Mr. Chambers seem not to know how to fence with cutting swords (except modern flimsy foils), there is just no other excuse for his fantasies about "a sword heavy enough for parry other blades". And european swords (of which he surely thinks they weighted 40 pounds) were not heavy enough? Let aside the fact that NO ONE fighting manual from 1300 until 16th ct. teaches edge-to-edge-parries!
Mr. Chambers, please read some books from Oakeshott, Clements and Alan Williams! For God's sake!..
Protherium 1 year ago
2:55
3:35
4:48
Shame on you Mr. Chambers, SHAME ON YOU! Do you have the slightest idea about Historical European Martial Arts?! NO, you're a epee-foil-fencer, you even don't know how to grip and wield an arming sword properly! You have no clue of what the shield really was! Your theory "straight blades do not cut" is PURE IGNORANT BULLSH*T!
4:26
Mr. Victor Harris, do not talk about things you have no clue about! Keep at your history and let metallurgists decide whether katana can chip or not.
Protherium 1 year ago
@Protherium
Sir, I'd like to kiss you for this comment
StarAll4life 1 year ago
Thekatana never stops fascinating me it really is the best fucking sword in the world
Nick47794 1 year ago
@Nick47794
don't be so sure about that
many katanas are made of poor quality and are able to be deformed, because of its soft mune (back side)
StarAll4life 1 year ago
I would love to learn the art of the katana and samurai
Nick47794 1 year ago
At 5:26-Nice moves!
amdturion123 1 year ago
is that sean bean talking ?
timhemp 1 year ago
this has been seen alot but no reactions?
MrRik338 1 year ago
is that sean bean?
isaactrio 1 year ago
I like the Japanese mentality toward war much better. "I'm fighting for my beliefs, you're fighting for yours. I respect you, but I need to kill you. may the best man win"
raigekimaru 1 year ago 38
i totally agree, its very respectful. it has a lot of honour and valor in it. unlike todays menatily which is blow everything up and think about consequences later.
moee12 1 year ago
@moee12 oh shit!! you actually believe that!! y dont you search how they fought in WW2!!
pogi09282805724 1 year ago
@pogi09282805724
mate, not how they fought, its what you fight for man. the sumari sword represents a whole fundermental concept in japanese society that doesnt exist anymore. and i guess that chopping off soldiers heads isnt that painful compared to the many other ways soldiers were tortued and then killed. war has no morals
moee12 1 year ago
@raigekimaru oh fuck you!! u certainly never heard of WW2 in the pacific!! JAPANESE FUCKING MONKEYS RAPE HUNDREDS OF WOMEN IN THE PHILIPPINES EVERYDAY those women were called comfort women!! Japanese warrior are fucking brutal to losers since they think all losers should commit harakiri!!
pogi09282805724 1 year ago
@raigekimaru
Dont glorify one race because of what you see in animes or movies. The Japanese mentality to war was just as fiendish as any others, in fact many of the most horrifying true stories are because of the atrocities committed to POWS by Japan throughout the ages. There is no honour in war, the closest we can get to honour is a necessary evil. The fact is back then the Japanese were no different to us, they went to war for monetary gain and dominance like everyone else. Get real.
DukeHyphington 1 year ago
@raigekimaru it doesn't matter whose right, only whose left - American belief (and we won)
de4th1snt3nough 1 year ago
@raigekimaru That is the ideal in almost every tradition of warriormenship. But ussally man does not meet those almost impossible standards.
martthesling 11 months ago
there are so many wrong things n this video i'm not even gonna start
dig6dog 2 years ago 2
bias nonsense, 3:00, wtf bones, flesh, mail and armor was curved, so much compared to the katana, a negligible side effect of construction
301001082 2 years ago
greatest weapon ever, symbol of power.
1080portal 2 years ago
"Greatest weapon ever" - but just in our minds influenced by mass media. But in fact there were great swords made all around the world. Sadly, the very most of these traditions (european, oriental, indian) died out.
Protherium 2 years ago 18
@Protherium i'm talking about literally just what it symbolises but indian swords are interesting
1080portal 2 years ago
Agreed. It's really quite sad. The indian scimitar (think I spelled that wrong..), was a very fine weapon. Much like the katana.
sk8wise12 2 years ago
@Protherium= True, I would love to have a Knight sword made of Spanish steel. Not the crappy ones they sell at the mall.
vigo894 1 year ago
@vigo894 im with you pal, swords in malls are stupid,. specially those super shinning swords they sell,. pathetic manufactureres who dont know how exactly good sword looks likeT_T
Testingpointer1 1 year ago
actually 2^14 ...
1111AliG7890 2 years ago
I see thats what they mean by thousands of layers
2^15 = 32768
ChaozXIII 2 years ago
Comment removed
thisismeplusyou 2 years ago
Its just a piece of metal Dude.
Like Seve Ballesteros said,
It's not the Arrow, it's the Indian.
Sixalienasa 2 years ago
It was the typhoon that saved japan from the mongol. Mongol just shot the samurai with arrows before samurai can do any damage. That's what I heard.
solidysnake1 2 years ago
They did. I heard that the Mongol fleet never made to Japanese shores as they were sunk by a wind storm.
Paxification 2 years ago
The Japanese called it the Divine Wind, hence the term Kamikaze
BadNewsBringer 2 years ago
The Mongol launched two attacks, one of them was stopped by the Kami-Kaze, the other one resulted in direct battle in which the Japanese fended off the Mongols.
gamefreak10605 2 years ago
Actually, the Japanese retreated, and the Mongols thought they were bringing more assistance, so they retreated too.
TuahShinguru 2 years ago
@BadNewsBringer Spirit Wind
dig6dog 2 years ago
Epitome of badass: samurai sword
SabaiDeeKhonLao 2 years ago
You guys are frickin smart. Realy !
Lvduggo69 2 years ago 2
James Williams with an Albion arming sword replica:
-- watch?v=_VkIIj-kyvQ
James Williams is a formidable professional swordsman who exactly knows how the swords are working.
And once again - the "superiority" of the katana is a modern myth which was created in the 50-s and 60-s by cinematography and the "old times-reviving hype."
Protherium 2 years ago
Woah, they got it all wrong, the samurai were badly defeated at Hakata Bay and both sides ended up retreating. when the mongols reutrned i think 7 years later a fierce storm wiped them out. It was the storm that won the war not the sword.
SauerKraut95 2 years ago
皆さん議論が好きね。
刀が使えるとか
刀が作れるとかはかっこいいけど、
議論ができるのは別にかっこよくないよ。
yukorn 2 years ago
A sharp replica used in the oldest swordfighting method of Europe; Sword & Buckler combat.
-- watch?v=o5UA4NBvHeY
It is quick. It cuts the bottles effortless.
-- watch?v=HHA__qDvtAI
The blade cuts tatami mats effortless even with only one hand used.
-- watch?v=sQrkKmOWXxM
European swords are slow and blunt? No way!
Protherium 2 years ago
By the way, the Korean swordsmith speaks out that "Korea taught the technology of the Katana to Japan".
Does the person purchasing Katana made in Korea believe it?
marz12aug 2 years ago
Most people who criticized it about Katana will not have touched it in genuine Katana.
They know a cheap replica made in China.
marz12aug 2 years ago
OMG this guy never used a real European sword ever in his life. Can someone use a real swordsman for once.
Agnibuddha 2 years ago
i used to rave about katanas and have handled some of my countrys swords (england) they are light versatile (same cutting power but the heavy end could also be used to deal terrible amounts of blunt damage with the pommel
dantae666 2 years ago
I assure you, European swords never had the same cutting power as legitimate katanas. If they seemed to, to you, it's probably due to user error. No offense.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
How 'bout this vid?
-- /watch?v=8BIvHrnTGl8
A modern replica made from modern carbon steel. Seems to be very sharp.
There is no historical or archaeological evidence that euro swords were blunter than katana. Sources from Early and High Middle Ages are clearly takling about "sharpness" as a basic feature of a sword.
The opinion that a sword made for mail armour cutting HAVE TO be blunt is a misconception of the 19th cent. fencers. Keeping perpetuating even today.
Protherium 2 years ago
Well, if it's made from high carbon steel then it should be perfectly capable of holding a razor sharp edge. As I understand it, though, it's the shape of the Katana blade, as well, that makes it such a competent cutter. European swords are thicker and taper at a different grade to the edge, hence they hack more than they actually slice. The simply force their way through a material. I'm no professional, mind you; just an martial artist and armchair military historian.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
katanas were made of a special type of steel found only in japan, that's why it is sharder then european swords. As well as the shape like you had stated and the motion and technique used to swing it
jthetrackr 2 years ago
There is only one type of carbon steel worldwide; carbon steel! ;) Japanese steel tamahagane has only little amounts of phosphorus and sulfur, and that's made this steel of good quality. Good quality steel DOES NOT mean it is any kind of "superior" to all carbon steels. And sharpness is only determined by carbon content and proper tempering. Not purity of steel.
European swords were used with finesse. Source: medieval fighting manuals. Watch the channel of ShooterMikeSBG. And you will see.
Protherium 2 years ago
1/4 inch wouldn't be uncommon for a katana, while 3/16 is standard for many European swords, which like the katana were often tapered distally, and were sometimes hollow ground.
If you mean wider, then yes, until the renaissance most European blades were wider (at the hilt) than the katana. Most weren't really optimized for hacking or chopping over cutting or slicing though due to being balanced close to the hilt to aid in the point control needed for thrusts. That's what polearms were for.
nemesis67982 2 years ago
The thick blade and appleseed geometry of a katana isn't an issue with soft targets, but the thicker blades of the katana need to push aside too much material to make them effective at slicing through armor. Most katana can't even slice through chainmail reliably (though they can pierce it easily enough). To be fair though, many European sword designs can't cut through mail effectively either.
nemesis67982 2 years ago
Lol, I can confirm that. That was just the topic of an episode of "Lock N' Load" that I watched on the Military Channel about an hour ago. None of the swords they tested were able to effectively penetrate the armor, but the katana faired measurably better than the long sword they compared it with.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
Did they took a good functional longsword replica? Or just a stage combat "look-a-like"? I also have seen some documentaries where they had no true swords at all.
Protherium 2 years ago
Honestly, I had the same question but they didn't make it clear. Both the katana and the longsword, however, were forged from the same steel. The showed the smith doing it and it was the same guy who made both. He seemed to know his stuff. So I guess, in that sense, that should even say more of the katana, since legitimate katana were generally forged from superior steel.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
Actually, katana are generally /not/ forged from superior steel. They were forged from a base material which was actually inferior to that which European smiths were working with after the 12th-13th centuries, when the blast furnace hit the scene enabling Europeans to make more consistent, high quality steel. This is why the Japanese, and earlier Europeans, both had to 'fold' the steel, in order to even out the distribution of elements therein.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
"Seemed to know" his stuff doesn't mean anything when your audience has little knowledge of actual European swords. There are numerous flaws with that episode of Lock and Load (Aside him R. Lee having no swordsmanship knowledge). For instance, when he was testing cuts against leather armor he used an /underhanded/ cut against the leather armor with the European sword, and an /overhanded/ cut with the katana. Overhanded cuts are much more damaging than underhanded cuts, as per common sense.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
Likewise, we don't know /anything/ about the two swords being tested, rendering that test invalid.
What was the carbon content of the two swords?
How did they harden each one?
Did they temper properly?
What exactly was the cross section of the two swords?
Edge bevel?
Weight?
Likewise, why does one rough example from each /class/ serve as a representation of a wide family of swords? There is huge variety in both sword types, so why use such an arbitrary, limited sampling?
Caliburnis 2 years ago
Now, there are also the numerous errors throughout the show, which make me skeptical of everything presented therein.
For instance, they refer to the Longbow as being like a "sniper rifle", used to selectively pick out targets. However, historically the Longbow was used in mass formation, firing at an /area/ with rapid fire and not at specific targets with precision and accuracy. This is far more like a modern "machine gun".
Caliburnis 2 years ago
Likewise, they try and argue that hardening (Which they erroneously refer to as "tempering" in the case of the katana) appeared in the 10th century. We have quench-hardened Frankish swords from the 5th-9th centuries, hundreds of years before their claim. I think we even have some in the Roman era if I remember properly.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
And then we have another concern. The sword they used seems to have a flattened diamond cross section, and he seems to be trying to imitate the later era thrusting oriented swords. Now, there is a distinct problem here. The diamond shaped, thrusting oriented swords were /very/ stiff. They shouldn't be flexing as much as they were, so this makes me wonder just how they made it.
And this is really the crux of the issue. I'm going to quote something I found on a forum I frequent.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
"In the end, the test is not very meaningful since two random swords of unknown origin hardly qualify as representative of the wider variety of blade forms grouped under "longsword" or "katana."" -Gabriel Lebec
In essence, we don't know the first thing about either sword, so both are unreliable for the test.
An Oakeshott type XVI is different from a XXa, is different from a XVIII.
Likewise, a 'shinto' style katana is different from a 'koto' katana, is different from a 'shinshinto'.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
Yep. You've confirmed what I already suspected, and that is that I really don't know $#!+ about this stuff. I have done enough reading to have more than common knowledge of the two, but my knowledge is definitely not very thorough. It's also notable that the person swinging them was not trained, and therefore, not competent with either one. If anything, it is vaguely revealing about the characteristics of the geometry of the two and the differences that makes in their cutting ability.
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
Well, the cutting and thrusting tests were both invalid from what I saw. The longsword being used seemed like they were trying to have a weird not-quite-right thrusting sword that was too flexible. This is naturally deficient in the cut and thrust.
As shown in the leather-test, he used two completely different cuts for the swords, invalidating it.
On the ice block, he struck the ice block with the lower half of the European sword, while striking with the upper half of the Japanese sword.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
I think maybe there's a misunderstanding. The video I'm referring to is not this one. It's a very similar episode I saw on military channel with L. Emery (I think that's his name).
GeetarAdam 2 years ago
That's actually exactly the one I'm referring to.
Caliburnis 2 years ago
" European swords are thicker"
The exact opposite, actually. European swords tend to have very dramatic distal taper, meaning the swords are almost leaf thin at the end (exceptions do exist, such as manny hollow-ground swords). The katana has very little distal taper, meaning it more or less retains its thickness throughout. Going by blade geometry alone, the European swords would be sharper. But edge hardness is also a factor, and the Japanese tend to go for overkill with their sharpening.
Gilmaris 1 year ago
Samurai swords are fucking awesome. This show is not. Sword "experts" who can barley lift a sword, historical raping, and blatant bias. Discovery channel EPIC FAIL. Discovery channel producer to boss, "Sir, we fucked up this show real bad, what do we do?" "Go get Sean Bean."
crowblack0413 2 years ago 2
"""If you have a "crusader" sword it will hit with the entire blade at the same time and that's not good."""
The correct technique of the european one-hander is this one: hold the sword and strike the target with the percussion point (not the whole blade!) keeping an angle of 10-40°. When hitting, draw the sword backwards producing a slice motion. If used in this way, a sharp replica can easily cut through tatami, meat and bottles.
Using swords like a baseball club is NOT a proper technique.
Protherium 2 years ago
Sean Bean narrating! fuck yeah!
missythebitch 2 years ago