LATIN POETRY Catullus 101 (Elegiac couplet)

[jmoreno718]

That was beautiful, thanks for the upload.

[PrincessAshley121]

latin est optima. latin est pulcherimma,ego amo latin :) tu vocas latin , ego voco latin :)!! ego habeo optima magristra

ego habebas poem et est trisstisimus :[ ego lacrimabo 

[rOsArluS]

@PrincessAshley121

Unless you are really trying to stress the subject, personal pronouns are not needed. That's the beauty of an inflected language. You have to use the latina instead of latin and poema instead of poem. Also, you need to use the accusative case for words like optima. (please correct me someone if I'm wrong)

Latina optimam est. Latina pulcherimmam (wrong word?) est, latinam amo. Latinam vocas, latinam voco. magistra optima habeo. Poema habebam et trisstisimum est. lacrimabo

[PrincessAshley121]

@rOsArluS im only in latin 2 and im working on it so my apologies its hard to use cases but im really good at dative

[sukhbaatar108]

Gentes---> gwith a soft sound

cinerem---> u must pronunce c like in "change"

Accipe--->same of "change", soft "c"

[LilithProductions]

@sukhbaatar108 It depends if you're using Classical pronunciation or Ecclesiastical pronunciation.

[williamxiji]

@sukhbaatar108 no the narrator is right, based on classical latin pronunciation rules. and catullus lived during the classical latin period. you are using a later form of latin

[Alexander12753]

Latin should be international language instead of English as it once was

[8catullus]

Catullus est bonus poeta!

(If i am talking about catullus in a emphasizing kanda way would that count as a vocative changing catullus to catulle or would it just stay catullus as i put)

[sumimperator]

Hoc est pulcherrimum carmen me legisse umquam.

[luciano9009]

One of my favorite classical poets, one of the reason I write verse today in such a fashion.

[FranLesPaul]

Why do you stop? It should flow just like any other language. This sounds like it has a trillion glottal stops.

[oterrivelivan]

My native language is Portuguese. We pronounce Latin like the italians and spaniards do. I think it sounds more natural if you do it.

[violinonero]

you sound russian

[MsCampobasso]

Very nice!

[anza06]

really no good..i am sorry i am italian i studiet latin...and this is not at all the fare reading

[Iraqnero]

@jc625 Since Latin is a long since extinct language, nobody truly sure about how it should be pronounced. As Spanish is derived from Latin, your interpretation as a native Spanish speaker is probably as good as anybody's.

[EgyptianAsp]

lovely!

[Bubble734]

makes me lol that people comment in latin because we watched this in our latin lesson at school and my teacher translated one of the comments. It didn't make sense...

[dkahn400]

@Bubble734 You laugh at all the comments written in Latin because someone else told you that one of them didn't make sense? Can we look forward to a comment from you in Latin whether correct or otherwise?

[Bubble734]

@dkahn400

oh I'm sorry, I'm only at GCSE level. I regard myself as a lot worse at Latin than many, many people, including my teacher whose translations I trust. Therefore I apologise to anybody I may have offended, I did not mean that I could have done any better. ego sum stultior quam assinus.

[pilhamu]

Id est etiam unum de meis carminibus praeferitis.

Musica et imagines placent sed rhythmus syllabarum longarum et brevium non iam auditur in haec versione.

[Caporacolo]

I don't really like Catullo, i just prefer latter elegiac poetry such as Properzio, Tibullo and Ovidio, especially the last one with is mixing of genres and experimentalism.

[baseface22]

What's the music?

[digitalfear24]

From the way he rolls his r i can tell he is most likley a native spanish speaker like me from what dialect i have no idea but i would presume him as Mexican

Wonderful poem nevertheless estava muy linda y estava belisima gracia para todos

[GaryPansey]

A MASTERPIECE! BRAVO!

[Thetruth1392]

Your natural pronuncation makes this wonderful poem sound quite bad. I think that if you're not a native speaker from italy or at least spain or french.. you cannot read latin! Quid ergo? Sapientem esse me dico? Minime.. Sed canebam Verbum latinitatis per plurimos annos.. Vale..

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

He's a native Spanish speaker, Mexican Spanish. I disagree with the ictus-derived stress. I think he should stress the syllables as in prose, while maintaining perfect but syncoped and moody rythm.

His pronunciation is kinda ok, but I agree it could be better... more Italian, the long LL should be more like in 'bella'. The most I disagree with his pronunciation of d and t, should be more dental.

[Thetruth1392]

MMM.. When I listened to this poem I felt that the speaker was not from italy.. It's a pronunciation too hard, too streight and contracted.. a typical pronunciation of somone that is not from Italy.. Sorry!

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

I said he is Mexican. So yes, not Italian. Though, Mexican Spanish has developed some non-romance phonological features, as you indeed noticed. Indeed, as I previously mentioned the d and t should be more dental. I don't know why Mexican Spanish developed the d and t a little different from European Spanish. I agree more with an italian accent, too, as you must have noticed in my posts.

Valete omnes!

[RonaldR2007]

Stupid, you think because you are italian you can judge how to pronounce an old language? If you as italian had something to do with that old classic culture you wouldn't be governed by Berlusca. Lol You europeans are so superficial and stupid.

[Thetruth1392]

You haven't ever heard somone read Catullo with the good pronunciation =) If I'll do a Video of my latin / ancient greek university teacher when she reads you will probably cry.. Latin culture was born here in Italy and I am the direct son of that culture. My house is in the same city where Cicerone was born and 40 km from Roma (not Rome).. About Berlusca --> he is not my friend and I'm not talking about that.. Please if I'm superficial show me that you are not like me!!

[NaFran49]

To Thethruth1392

Maybe you live 40km from there and it's still 2000 years away...

[Thetruth1392]

No need to answer!! =)

[MaBu888]

Actually, it was a mistake to suggest that the vulgar Latin form of Proto-French word for ook was libre, as it was also libro > livro > livre.

[MaBu888]

The science is on the side of the people who acknowledge the differences of pronunciation of modern Italian and classical Latin. Ancient Romans would have thought you a barbarian for pronouncing liber (book) and liber (one who is borne or is a child or is free). There are such things as faultless guttural pronunciation of g and c up to 3d century AD. That's why Italian perserved preces as prieghi and not priegi. The short e became ie in vulgar Latin. This worth mentioning.

[MaBu888]

Rewrote

Ancient Romans would have thought you a barbarian for confusing liber (book) and liber (one who is borne or is a child or is free).

Cicero's speeches would most likely have been just as quaint and difficult to understand at first for people who lived 300 years after his time. Add another hundred years and pronunciaton would have been troubleful as well. :)

In Italy

liber - via librum > libro

In some other Romance languages:

liber > via vulgar Latin lib(e)re - livre.

[MaBu888]

I agree, Italian has a unique set of patterns that make it in some way closer to how Latin was pronounced in its hay days. E.g. - LL, RR, SS, FF, DD, (even BB possibly), GG, ect, some other features. The A is definitely the same. Maybe e became more open than in Italian, but not generally. AE became open long e quite occasionally in rustic speech in 200 BC, remained AE in urban speech untl 200 and even perhaps as late as 300 AD in some people's mouths. Modern and Old English - analogy.

[MaBu888]

Not tom mention some dialects of Sardinians. Let not get the consideration of Sardinian being a language or dialect of Italian get in the way of appreciating my arguments. Sardinian has perhaps more similar verb grammar to Latin as well bordering on being identical. The word for 100 in Sardinian is often written as cheintu, or kentu.

[parallellepipedum91]

Let me guess..

You're from US ?

anyway, how can you say europeans are superficial ? that a huge generalization, which makes you the superficial and stupid one here.

doh

[ChameleonDave]

I couldn't even hear you. Learn to speak louder, or to edit sound levels.

[PhilPhilUSA]

I have an older brother. Your reading inspires me to better appreciate him while we are together...here. Thank you.

(great images and music, too)

[dkahn400]

pulcherrime cantavisti.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

SIC

PVLCERVME CANTAVET

[dkahn400]

minime vero. verba ista Latina non sunt.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

PWnere licet mihi te nunc: son uerba uetusisumai latinitatis. Vale

[dkahn400]

nullum responsum nisi litteram "W" Latine non inveniri dicere dabo.

[MaBu888]

Sum MaBu888/1PostPoMoMan.

Phonologiae tua scientia Latinae linguae non est magna. Verbum 'nisi' erat brevis ['nisi:] non ['ni:si].

If Latin really didn't have the w in its current labiodental and bilabial positions (e.g. Italian and Spanish) positions, then the errors of confusing b with u consonans would have happened all the time, but they showed up in writing only in the 3rd century. It is probable that the u consonans became a bilabial b/v sound in the 2nd-3rd century, ergo serbare.

[dkahn400]

responso tuo te sententiam meam non bene intellexisse reor. quaecumque pronuntiatio litterae "v" littera "w" Latine simpliciter non invenitur. et verbum non brevem esse dicere sed breve debes.

[MaBu888]

In poetry the word nisi is sometimes ['nisi:] and sometimes ['nisi]. The same with tibi and mihi. I think I did comprehend what you said beforehand. I maintain that w was the pronunciation of V CONSONANS up until the 2nd-3rd century AD. Some grammarian from 2nd or 3rd century said that the consonantal u (nowadays rendered as v in Latin an Italian) was done with rounded lips as if giving a kiss. However, variation in that regard is provable even in BCE (in one certain urban setting).

[MaBu888]

There is no reason to suggest that the educational standard was to ignore vowel lengths up until the fourth century AD, although it's possible, as in the 3rd century there was a 'decline' of 'classical' Latinity somewhat, and even before that.

Verbi 'nisi' initium brevem dicere, aureae si Latinitatis ipsum debetur pronuntiatorem, adopinor, sed certe nescio.

[MaBu888]

In close proximity to i and e the w was thinner, but [wakka] became [baka] in Spanish. Of course a bilabial fricative can become a v very easily. The same thing happened in the Norther Germanic languages throughout the medieval period. Vikings used to have a w for certain, where now there is a v. In that same gist, Austrans and Southern Germans have a bilabial fricative that they spell w in German of course.

[MaBu888]

*only *after* the 3rd century I meant to write.

Did you know that castilian Spanish doesn't have a v, but a bilabial fricative? Hence the tendency to have two ways of spelling of the word cow: vaca and baca. That same kind of confusion in spelling started in 3rd to 4th century and was rampant in early Romance spellings.

It is a general tendency of the w to evolve into a bilabial fricative (a fricative b sound).

How to render Latin [w] in a decent manner is depicted in my latest upload.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Quomodo pruntiare POLCERVME CANTAVET? Respondo nunc: [polkerrume] [kanta:we:t] Ut scis, scitus est vetustiorae linguae Latinae pronontiatus. BTW, sorry for some spelling errors. :=)

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Scita est.*

[MaBu888]

Alterius - POLCERRVMED CANTAVEISTEI

[mak2675]

very brave of you, comrade. Continue the work of high culture that only few (and fewer daily) can understand.....

[RonaldR2007]

Excellent. You read it really well, my latin teacher used to say that the language which has more in common with latin was spanish as for pronunciation. I have read that also in several books. It's not a wonder then, that your pronunciation sounds so good.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Technically, your teacher was half-wrong.

[MaBu888]

The way the Spanish especially in Spain, lengthened the final -os and -as and es suffixes, is definitely much akin to how Romans did it, who did it more consistently.

[black0jackass]

Latin is the most beautiful language in the world!

[evan1965]

If you are self teaching, try googling for Latinum, there are some excellent resources (audio) there for you to learn restored classical pronunciation, from a wide range of readers.

[jerrykim2]

I actually have no idea how to read latin poetry and what all those long and short syllables mean. I think this gave me a good idea how it's supposed to sound though it sounds suspiciously close to Italian.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

It is good if it sounds suspiciously close to Italian, but not when the wrong syllable is lengthened or shortened.

[MaBu888]

Please use the flat L, don't palatalize the L. The L was very similar in Roman times to what it is now in some forms of Italian. It's proven thusly: the word multum used to be written as moltom in Old Latin, and the L is supposed to be just a little thinner than in English, but not as thin as in Spanish or French. Definitly, using a completely thick and flat L before c, p, t. I'll send you a link of a song by Toto Cutugno.

[jc625]

Thanks for your comment. My first language is Spanish and I learned Latin completely by myself. Learning the grammar and the vocabulary was obviously challenging because nobody was there to give me feedback, but learning how the standard pronunciation correctly was obviously impossible for me... a book cannot teach anybody how to pronounce correctly, regardless of how precise or detailed the description of the sounds were. So my pronunciation of Latin is basically my "interpretation"....

[jc625]

So my pronunciation of Latin is basically my "interpretation" as a Spanish native speaker of what Wheelock and others said. Obviously, since nobody corrected me, this "interpretation" was also very subjective and imprecise and, since not much was said about the L, I just pronounced it like in Spanish. So, I really appreciate your comment and I'll try in the future to palatize my L less. Also, I'd appreciate if you could send me a link where I could listen to the "flat L" you mentioned. Thanks!!!

[MaBu888]

I sent you a link, in a personal message, if it got to the other side LOL, wherein there is a link to an Italian song by Toto Cutugno. The L is a little flatter in Italian, mostly, but at times it's sharper, much like Spanish. Also, check my two videos of how I pronounce the hypothetical Proto-Germanic language and Latin. The Latin one contains the additional phonetic detail of final m's preceding vowel being nasalized and assimilated thusly: cum + divina would be cun diuina, the u being nasal.

[MsNeinNeinNein]

@jc625 Tu interpretación de la pronunciación es excelente, dado que en realidad no podemos saber como se pronunciaba el latin con precisión (no hay ninguna persona viva que tenga latin como lengua materna)

[tejpatel69]

thats very well done for someone who had taught themselves latin. i take latin poetry now in school and it is very difficult to translate at times.

[perscientiam]

Excellent! You read latin very well. What is the name of this poem?

[Aberjan]

Catullus 101. There's really no title.