If you like this- you should see how much the choir as a whole and the films have improved over the years- they're even more spectacular now and Libera sings songs their director writes especially for them even, now.
This one of my Mother's favorite songs which our family will be singing tomorrow at her memorial service. I grew up with this song as a child in the Anglican Church and I can remember singing this song as a toddler in our church's children's chapel. It still gives me goose bumps when I hear it sung or I sing it. I love this song along with an Anglican theme entitled "Guide Me, O Thou Great Redeemer" which was played at Princess Di's funeral & Prince William and Princess Catherine's wedding.
@Vigiskane No more than we can criticize (let alone illustrate) the illiterate prophet muhammed, who married a nine year old girl named Aisha, and believed he saw none other than the angel gabriel with a message from allah.
The word islam means to "surrender to the will of allah". Of all the words to use, why "surrender"?
Us morally superior non-believers have got the believers on the run :)
These poor children have been indoctrinated to believe a wild proposition on no evidence. To subscribe to a religion is the very essence of sadomasochism: the wish to be a slave. These children are too young to understand this, and their parents (whether they encouraged or allowed) should be held to account.
@VigisKane No, I won't shut up. It is precisely because of this violation of free speech, which religion has incurred, that it has been able to spread so far. I am genuinely concerned for children with regard to these matters. Not uniquely, although certainly including christianity - which as you pointed out has one of the world's largest followings.
I should also point out that religion attacks each of us in our most basic integrity. It says that we cannot be good without god. But which god?
If you are so concerned about a religion brainwashing children and destroying their basic human rights then look no further than Islam old chum, but of course you wont say anything about islam, thats racist isnt it
@VigisKane You make a good point about islam. Somewhere along the way we have all bought into the idea that it is wrong to criticize religion, whether we are religious or not. Islam makes an extra special case for itself to be offended.
We cannot speak out against the fathers who would take a sharp stone to their daughters and hack off their clitoris, because it is racist. Nor can we speak out against the stoning of women who dare to remove their cloth bag in the hot sun, because it is racist.
@metalheadx100 I honestly think you should look into these questions more deeply. Your statement that religion "says we cannot be good without god" is a gross oversimplification. You might try looking at theism, and contemplating the probable fact that "reality" is made up of man, the world, and God, three domains which are not the same and cannot be reduced to one another. So thought Avicenna, Maimonides, Aquinas, and Rosenzweig.
@metalheadx100 If you were morally superior, you'd maintain a polite silence. You would have some semblance of manners. You would have some sort of respect for your fellow man. You would not come here braying that you are "morally superior" to the likes of Benedict XVI.
Is it "S&M" to have a philosophy of life? How about your own? Is subscribing to atheism just another form of sadomasochism?
I await your reply, which will probably be insults.
@henrycate In response to your questioning my own philosophy, the philosopher Daniel Dennet has a good answer to “What is the meaning of life?” that I very much subscribe to, he replied: “Find something more important than yourself, and dedicate your life to it”. The things worth standing up for remain standing even after real critical scrutiny. Apply the same scrutiny to your faith as you do others. They can’t all be true, surely? Is it really such a stretch to say that yours is different?
@metalheadx100 "Find something more important than yourself, and dedicate your life to it." Hmm. This sounds like a command to dedicate yourself to God.
At least, consider this: the commandment "to have no other gods before me" actually works well. If you HAVE TO worship something, worship God. EVERYTHING ELSE ("humanity," reason, science, money, fame, power &c.) will turn to ashes in your mouth.
@henrycate Biblical texts are best understood as a whole, and should not be cherry picked for the nice bits. The bible is contradictory, supports slavery, would convict you in the privacy of your own thoughts – even while you are asleep (the second of the ten best known commandments), says ok to gang rape, tells you not to kill members of your own tribe but those of others is just fine (ten commandments again), ... and the list goes on!
@henrycate Religion is not entirely evil, just mostly. It doesn’t realise it. It makes a false claim for the origin of human morality which when scrutinised, cannot stand up to the decency common in most of us, if not all.
@henrycate We can say in all probability that if there is a god, he/she/it can either do nothing to help us, or doesn’t care to. The world is a mostly dark and frightening place. Every year millions of children die in the most poverty stricken conditions and in barely comprehensible pain and misery, because through no fault of their own they happen to have been born in the wrong part of the world.
Your prayers for answers and solutions are trivial by comparison to the suffering of millions.
@metalheadx100 Excuse me, but I believe quite sincerely that if religion vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow, those millions of children would continue to die. Probably even more would die. Where do you think the idea of loving them and caring for them came from? Aristotle? Plato? Darwin? Nietzche?
@henrycate Again, our sense of solidarity. The now sainted Mother Teresa believed that suffering was a gift from god, and this was backed up by the views of the vatican. The vatican still opposes the use of condoms, despite giving away a very small amount ground. They say that condoms prevent the spread of life. They also prevent the much larger spread of suffering and death, caused by AIDS.
I'm without your god, or indeed any god. I care. It sounds that if you are left to yourself, you do not.
@henrycate "EVERYTHING ELSE ("humanity," reason, science, money, fame, power &c.) will turn to ashes in your mouth."
Hello again my immoral acquaintance! Back for another bitchslap? You do not appeal to reason, you've clearly no regard for evidence, or for you fellow man (unless pursuing the reward of a celestial theme park). Science has been debunking the supernatural for more than two centuries. You are hiding in increasingly small spaces.
@henrycate The Universe exists in such a way, that one can say that it is such despite of our wants and fabrications. One may even go further to say that it sometimes seemingly appears to happen in spite of us. We are too small to be the measure of this place, unless your perception of reality finds you at the centre of all things - that god made you and loves you.
@henrycate I want to remain civil, unlike you apparently. Are you unsure of the words or the order that they are in? Which part would you like me to reiterate?
I don't claim to know where the Universe or life came from. Science is not far enough into its interrogation yet, and it might be the ultimate triumph to work it out. However, I'd postulate that life occurred sometime after the first self-replicating carbon based molecule formed, either here or elsewhere in the universe (panspermia).
@henrycate Human Consciousness? We are biochemical machines. We respond to stimuli just like spiders and ants and computer programs, be it in a more complex form that includes our memories, our individual neurology, and genetic make up.
@Sc7the Aha, I think I understand you now. The old phrase was "meat machines." I wish you much luck on selling this idea to mankind, and also in constructing an ethical & legal code that works for "meat machines." It sounds like you have no truck with individual responsibility --- how could you, with a "meat machine?" And of course the sanctity of human life has vanished down the memory hole.
@henrycate As for the sanctity of human, we can only assert that we either have exactly the same right to be here as anything else, be it an ant or a tree, or we equally have no right to be here. Our sense of morality can be demonstrated from the importance of human solidarity, whereby to ensure the survival of our species we had to work together, to share food and shelter, to protect our children, to affect altruism. These were and still are essential in our survival.
@henrycate It really does give credit to the phrase "more than the sum of our parts", in the same sense that a computer is more than just a collection of electronic components.
@henrycate This is the difference between the objective and the subjective. To be objective is to accept hard earned fact, even when it is inconvenient or downright contradictory to what one may have previously believed or wanted. I don't like to think of us as "meat machines" (by the way I'm not sure whom you quoting there), but nonetheless that is the nature of our existence.
@henrycate Because I don't know where the Universe or life came from, does not mean that I can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale takes my fancy.
@Sc7the But I think you would admit that the idea of a Creator God is hardly "whatever fairytale takes my fancy." It is one of the oldest concepts of the human race. The Indo-Europeans of 5000 BC prayed to Deiwos, and the American Indians spoke of the Great Spirit. Star Wars called it "The Force" and Arthur C. Clarke envisioned it with monoliths. It's not just a spur-of-the-moment fancy, as you imply.
@henrycate True, you didn't necessarily choose it. You could very well have been raised with these convictions. Virtually every culture has it's own story of creation, and the vast majority differ in detail. It seems that time and the place that you were born often has great impact on the beliefs that you continue carry (this is by choice, be it through your own reasoning, or lack of recognising its significance, or even pressure from family, friends, peers, or indeed all three of them).
@henrycate Next, leave reality to physics. The argument for god is a separate argument to that of religion. God(s) exist in the domain of the metaphysical, that is to say objects that transcend physical matter or the laws of nature. Reality in its broadest use describes the way objects exist, based on objectivity rather than subjectivity.
@metalheadx100 Why should I leave reality to physics? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. You might as well say, "Leave reality to the nearest priest." :-(
@henrycate Physics is the most fundamental science, and therefore the key player. Faith is the total surrender of inquiry - it is to accept an idea without challenge. Science is the study and ruthless scrutiny of nature. It observes a phenomenon, puts forward a hypothesis, and then tests it repeatedly in every way that could potentially prove it false. If it stands up to all scrutiny, you can call it a law. A miracle is the suspension of a law or laws, and trespass on the territory of science.
@metalheadx100 Why should I leave reality to physics?? If I do, physics seems to have discovered that matter is simply concentrated energy, and energy is...what?
Some physicists believe that the underlying reality of the cosmos is intelligence, and others believe it is matter.
I'm a lukewarm Theist, not a Catholic and not a Christian. I value wisdom over intelligence. I presume you know that loss of faith leads to loss of population.
@henrycate You're a lukewarm theist, is that what you'd say to this god if you really did find yourself standing before him? "I believed these bits, but I didn't like these bits". I'd come out of that better saying "I couldn't bring myself to believe any of this. I found a very effective method of discovering things, and you didn't show up in the results. You either made it so that I couldn't find evidence for you, or I just didn't have long enough to find you".
@henrycate Yes again, I don't claim to know what energy is - but that doesn't mean that it is magical. You'd have said the same of matter as you have energy, before Einstein derived E=mc^2. Not knowing something is not a license to fill in the gaps as you please, and then expect to be taken seriously. To not know something simply means that we must look harder and not assume that we already know (the word objective springs to mind again).
@metalheadx100 This is your worst and weakest point. The little baby is utterly innocent and good, you say. I don't support Original Sin, but I certainly do not support your idiot vision of humanity. I don't care about your apology or my apology: that makes no sense to me at all. But it seems clear that some humans are born dangerous.
@henrycate I absolutely agree, some humans are born dangerous. They are called sociopaths and psychopaths. People that do not understand the needs of others, or even delight in their torment.
You don't believe in original sin? So you got rid of the immoral bit that you didn't like?
That would be why my comment about original sin didn't make any sense to you.
@henrycate According the bible, we are born in sin. We are created sick and then commanded to be well. Fortunately for us, a little over 2000 years ago, a god cunningly sent their only son to an illiterate part of the Middle East to save us from our sins. The Chinese could read and write by this point, but were not suitable candidates to receive this person for some mysterious reason.
@metalheadx100 I'm sorry, but this is too silly to reply to. 2000 years ago almost everyone was illiterate, and I am not familiar with this silly story of Jesus going to China.
@henrycate No, he didn't go to China. That's why you're not familiar with the story. Tell me why I am wrong, don't run away and tell me that I am silly. Why did Jesus not arrive in China, where people were more intellectually accomplished? Am I to presume that it was your god doing his mysterious thing?
@Sc7the Why do you imagine that the Chinese were more intellectually accomplished than the people of the Mediterranean??? Do you have a Chinese Plato or Aristotle in mind? Or anyone at all, aside from Confucius and Lao Tzu?
@henrycate Why do you believe that they were not? The intelligence of a civilisation is not defined by one or two great thinkers, but by the advance of skills and knowledge utilised by the population as a whole. You've given two examples of revered minds from each side of the coin, those from China and those not. I don't understand how you derived your assertion that the Chinese were not more intellectually developed?
@henrycate With regard to my comment, “we cannot be good without god”: What is the point of religion otherwise? Religion must make this assertion. Why on earth would anyone sign up for it if they had not fallen for this disguised insult against our most basic integrity: that we are incapable of an independent capacity to be moral people? Even with ‘help’ from this invisible hand, a disturbingly large number of priests still can’t keep themselves away from a child’s innocence.
Well, one tiny point is to understand the cosmos correctly. There is God, there is man, and there is the world. They cannot be reduced to one another. That is, "the world" is not God (pantheism) and man is not God (Hinduism).
If God is there, presumably we want to get in contact with him (and to stay on his good side).
@henrycate No, it's not to understand the cosmos. Instead it has made false claims about the cosmos. Galileo was the first to recognise that the Sun did not orbit the Earth, that we are not the centre of things. What did the catholic church do upon hearing his new insight? They threatened him with torture and death for disagreeing with Psalms 104:5 "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved".
God is not a component of science. Science is the best tool to interrogate reality.
@Sc7the By the way, your telling of the Galileo tale is historically false. The Church never threatened him with torture. I sentence you to reading one real history book before saying anything more about Copernicus, Kepler, or Galileo. You're just repeating what your biased teachers taught you, and it's a complete lie.
@henrycate You deny that the church had any hand in silencing him, because his works were contradictory to to bible? I cannot argue with denial. Besides, you've already implied that you care little for reason.
@henrycate Your comment was at best ill-informed, and at worst disgustingly immoral. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I will presume the former, and that you look upon child rape in the same dim light as me. It is THE single worst act conceivable. The catholic church is the largest paedophile sanctuary in history and you will find few who are stupid enough to attempt to refute this.
@metalheadx100 Well, thank you very much for assuming that I am not a child-rapist. I will return the favor and assume that you are not a child-rapist.
I doubt that the Catholic Church is the "largest paedophile sanctuary in history," but how could I possibly know? Recent news suggests that college football and Hollywood are not far behind, but evil is evil.
@henrycate Did you not see the catholic sex abuse scandal in the papers and on the televison? It was at the forefront for weeks. The catholic church is far, far bigger than college football and Hollywood and far, far more powerful. "Not far behind" is a very impressive exaggeration. However yes, it's still inexcusable and must be fought.
@henrycate I will start with your pope Benedict XVI comment amongst the other items that you have laid on the table. Yes, I am morally superior to pope Benedict XVI. This is because I have no history or intention of protecting and enabling the institutional scale of child rapists (torture is probably a more fitting description than rape).
@henrycate No, I won't insult you. I've given no reason in anything that I've previously said to suggest that I would. I have prepared a fairly lengthy response that I had hoped to email to you, but I will have to settle for these comment boxes. I apologise if they come to you in the wrong order.
Once this light has shone into the heart, no darkness can ever overcome it. I believe that light to be a reality, because I have myself experienced it. I believe it also to be the Truth, and I think it not inappropriate to call it God. I am an academic scholar, but I have come to realize that pure reason is unqualified to penetrate the mystery of God’s light.
@henrycate A) It seems that we have reached the inevitable impasse. I take from this that you've abandoned objective reason in your argument, and indeed my words cannot resonate with the wilfully deaf. This must be your wisdom that is more important than intelligence. Belief is to accept something as truth in the absence of evidence. You know that you have been out-gunned, but still you cling tightly.
@henrycate B) It is your right to believe what you wish, however wishful, but this belief cannot be expected of others, or in children. It is important that they are taught about human history and culture, but this may not be taught as truth. It may not be taught as truth for the same reason as the idea that we live in a computer generated world. We could never show this factually, and we cannot bring it to the table claiming it as truth. Truth is obtained through our interrogation of nature.
@henrycate C) It concerns me that the children in this video take belief like yourself as a virtue, probably because this is what their parents have taught or encouraged. I do not presume that this was done in malice, but rather the lack of critical thought.
@henrycate D) Through the ages the argument for god has changed little, unlike the advance of science. The supernatural must make a retreat every time science takes a territory once held by faith. Religion was an early attempt to explain our reality, and given the scarcity of actual scientific knowledge in these times, it was the height of reason. As the ages progressed the scales tipped the other way, and now faith has abandoned reason altogether - if I am to understand your quote correctly.
@henrycate E) You have responded to me in anger and frustration, and have abandoned objective reasoning, have been unable to make a moral argument and now expect me to take wisdom and intelligence as two independent articles. Use a dictionary, look them up.
@henrycate *Human history and culture in paragraph B is a referral to religion and god. Read: {It is important that they are taught about all religions and gods, but they may not be taught as truth.}
@metalheadx100 Actually, not. You may be infinitely surprised to discover that there are 100 million Chinese Christians, and they regard your views with contempt. (If they regard them at all.) The religion is also growing by leaps and bounds in Africa and Latin America.
Just by the way, do you regard J.S. Bach, St. Francis, and St. Thomas Aquinas as "slaves?" That needs some explanation, since they were all free men.
@henrycate You mean to say that you are not a slave, but you would do whatever your god commanded? Right...
Christianity is big business. The same strand that has a hold in the States, is getting a hold in China, the appropriately named mega-churches. It's easy to see the appeal of a rock concert. It's a very big, tax exempt, money making scheme that appeals to the superstitious. Have you seen the houses that these pastors live in? There is no charitable essence there.
@Sc7the I am getting tired of this discussion. You know nothing about Christianity in China, and your idea that it is "mega-churches" is absurd. There are several books in print on the subject; I would suggest "Jesus in Beijing."
Somehow you have jumped to all sorts of conclusions about me. To clarify: I am not a Christian. I am (I think) a Theist. I don't have a God who commands me.
Your psychic powers are not working very well in regard to me and what I think.
@henrycate It was you who re-initiated this conversation, if you are getting tired you've only yourself to blame. Indeed I do not know you, and based on what you have said just now and also previously, you sound more like a deist with a strong apology for those that believe.
I have no psychic powers, but I am a fierce sceptic of all things paranormal and supernatural, so extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.
@henrycate With regard to mega-churches, a quick youtube search will call up the sort of thing to which I refer. There is also a strong political motivation backing christian development, which smells strongly of agenda.
@LIGHTRONIX Could you please provide some proof for this statement? After all, the hymn was completed in 1871, so it could hardly have been the marching song of the Crusaders (who did not kill "millions"). So I fail to understand what you are talking about.
I am a soldier of GOD > meaning, lets go forward for PEACE not to figth for WAR. Lord Jesus Christ leads against the foe. Go forward into the battle and see his banners PEACE ON EARTH!!!
@valentinebrady Hasn't it ever occurred to you that this position might make you feel good, but is in fact simplistic and self-defeating? You have heard of Neville Chamberlain, haven't you?
@vik238 That might have worked fairly well 150 years ago, but does not work at all in the year 2010, where the truly dangerous religions are Islam and Marxism.
@henrycate You'll be surprised how well it still works to summarize the legacy of these chartered soldiers. From Zimbabwe and Quebec, to Pakistan and Palestine - the chartered soldiers of Victorian Britain have left a bloody and indelible mark on the history of the world. Islam and Marxism are dangerous alright, but they dwarf Evangelical Christianity and consumer capitalism.
@VigisKane NORMAL you say? in a state of nature children would never learn the name jesus christ. a child would only know god if he himself came to such a conclusion. why not see if this happens? stop mindfucking your kids!
@DEMAGOGUE666 Nobody lives, or has ever lived, in a "state of nature." ALL children are taught the language and the religion of the culture they were born into. If you view this as "mindfucking your kids" I guess that's up to you.
@DEMAGOGUE666 Have you ever wondered what exactly you mean by "a state of nature?" I advise to think seriously about what that phrase could possibly mean.
When Churchill and Roosevelt met on a battleship to work out the Atlantic Charter, Churchill chose the hymns for the service:
We sang "Onward, Christian Soldiers" indeed, and I felt that this was no vain presumption, but that we had the right to feel that we serving a cause for the sake of which a trumpet has sounded from on high. ... it swept across me that here was the only hope, but also the sure hope, of saving the world from measureless degradation.
all Christian must unite in the time of War alliance whit all Christian. all Christian united in one Cross, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, ect. We must Unite in the time of battle,, and War against Evil and or Against Anti-Christians
En marcha soldados, de cirsto. con la Cruz delante, marchemos, A la guerra. Cristo el Supromo (Royal ) Master, despejara el camino. antes, de nosotros! dedicado, a, quien menos.!Nazarena!
If you like this- you should see how much the choir as a whole and the films have improved over the years- they're even more spectacular now and Libera sings songs their director writes especially for them even, now.
4FabBEATLES 3 months ago
love 1:37 "at the shout of praise"
3rdbase04 5 months ago
This one of my Mother's favorite songs which our family will be singing tomorrow at her memorial service. I grew up with this song as a child in the Anglican Church and I can remember singing this song as a toddler in our church's children's chapel. It still gives me goose bumps when I hear it sung or I sing it. I love this song along with an Anglican theme entitled "Guide Me, O Thou Great Redeemer" which was played at Princess Di's funeral & Prince William and Princess Catherine's wedding.
tmkrausse09 9 months ago
@Vigiskane No more than we can criticize (let alone illustrate) the illiterate prophet muhammed, who married a nine year old girl named Aisha, and believed he saw none other than the angel gabriel with a message from allah.
The word islam means to "surrender to the will of allah". Of all the words to use, why "surrender"?
Seems very sinister to me.
metalheadx100 1 year ago
Us morally superior non-believers have got the believers on the run :)
These poor children have been indoctrinated to believe a wild proposition on no evidence. To subscribe to a religion is the very essence of sadomasochism: the wish to be a slave. These children are too young to understand this, and their parents (whether they encouraged or allowed) should be held to account.
metalheadx100 1 year ago
@metalheadx100
for fucks sake shut up, if you dont like christianity fine but dont come on here insulting it and the 1 billion people who follow it
VigisKane 1 year ago
@VigisKane No, I won't shut up. It is precisely because of this violation of free speech, which religion has incurred, that it has been able to spread so far. I am genuinely concerned for children with regard to these matters. Not uniquely, although certainly including christianity - which as you pointed out has one of the world's largest followings.
I should also point out that religion attacks each of us in our most basic integrity. It says that we cannot be good without god. But which god?
metalheadx100 1 year ago
@metalheadx100
If you are so concerned about a religion brainwashing children and destroying their basic human rights then look no further than Islam old chum, but of course you wont say anything about islam, thats racist isnt it
VigisKane 1 year ago
@VigisKane You make a good point about islam. Somewhere along the way we have all bought into the idea that it is wrong to criticize religion, whether we are religious or not. Islam makes an extra special case for itself to be offended.
We cannot speak out against the fathers who would take a sharp stone to their daughters and hack off their clitoris, because it is racist. Nor can we speak out against the stoning of women who dare to remove their cloth bag in the hot sun, because it is racist.
metalheadx100 1 year ago
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metalheadx100 1 year ago
@metalheadx100 I honestly think you should look into these questions more deeply. Your statement that religion "says we cannot be good without god" is a gross oversimplification. You might try looking at theism, and contemplating the probable fact that "reality" is made up of man, the world, and God, three domains which are not the same and cannot be reduced to one another. So thought Avicenna, Maimonides, Aquinas, and Rosenzweig.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@metalheadx100 If you were morally superior, you'd maintain a polite silence. You would have some semblance of manners. You would have some sort of respect for your fellow man. You would not come here braying that you are "morally superior" to the likes of Benedict XVI.
Is it "S&M" to have a philosophy of life? How about your own? Is subscribing to atheism just another form of sadomasochism?
I await your reply, which will probably be insults.
henrycate 1 month ago
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metalheadx100 1 month ago
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metalheadx100 1 month ago
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metalheadx100 1 month ago
@henrycate Your response is welcome.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@henrycate In response to your questioning my own philosophy, the philosopher Daniel Dennet has a good answer to “What is the meaning of life?” that I very much subscribe to, he replied: “Find something more important than yourself, and dedicate your life to it”. The things worth standing up for remain standing even after real critical scrutiny. Apply the same scrutiny to your faith as you do others. They can’t all be true, surely? Is it really such a stretch to say that yours is different?
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 "Find something more important than yourself, and dedicate your life to it." Hmm. This sounds like a command to dedicate yourself to God.
At least, consider this: the commandment "to have no other gods before me" actually works well. If you HAVE TO worship something, worship God. EVERYTHING ELSE ("humanity," reason, science, money, fame, power &c.) will turn to ashes in your mouth.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate The quran says something very similar about allah. The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster also says something of the sort too.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Biblical texts are best understood as a whole, and should not be cherry picked for the nice bits. The bible is contradictory, supports slavery, would convict you in the privacy of your own thoughts – even while you are asleep (the second of the ten best known commandments), says ok to gang rape, tells you not to kill members of your own tribe but those of others is just fine (ten commandments again), ... and the list goes on!
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@henrycate Religion is not entirely evil, just mostly. It doesn’t realise it. It makes a false claim for the origin of human morality which when scrutinised, cannot stand up to the decency common in most of us, if not all.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@henrycate We can say in all probability that if there is a god, he/she/it can either do nothing to help us, or doesn’t care to. The world is a mostly dark and frightening place. Every year millions of children die in the most poverty stricken conditions and in barely comprehensible pain and misery, because through no fault of their own they happen to have been born in the wrong part of the world.
Your prayers for answers and solutions are trivial by comparison to the suffering of millions.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 Excuse me, but I believe quite sincerely that if religion vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow, those millions of children would continue to die. Probably even more would die. Where do you think the idea of loving them and caring for them came from? Aristotle? Plato? Darwin? Nietzche?
Why should a herd of "meat machines" give a damn?
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate Again, our sense of solidarity. The now sainted Mother Teresa believed that suffering was a gift from god, and this was backed up by the views of the vatican. The vatican still opposes the use of condoms, despite giving away a very small amount ground. They say that condoms prevent the spread of life. They also prevent the much larger spread of suffering and death, caused by AIDS.
I'm without your god, or indeed any god. I care. It sounds that if you are left to yourself, you do not.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the How dare you slander me, sir.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate "EVERYTHING ELSE ("humanity," reason, science, money, fame, power &c.) will turn to ashes in your mouth."
Hello again my immoral acquaintance! Back for another bitchslap? You do not appeal to reason, you've clearly no regard for evidence, or for you fellow man (unless pursuing the reward of a celestial theme park). Science has been debunking the supernatural for more than two centuries. You are hiding in increasingly small spaces.
Also, I've said nothing of money, fame or power.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Apologies for the typo: *your fellow man
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate The Universe exists in such a way, that one can say that it is such despite of our wants and fabrications. One may even go further to say that it sometimes seemingly appears to happen in spite of us. We are too small to be the measure of this place, unless your perception of reality finds you at the centre of all things - that god made you and loves you.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 And you are saying what? I see a bunch of words that do not make sense.
But the critical thing is that you have no idea where the Universe came from, where Life came from, and where Human Consciousness came from.
I repeat, you have no idea. No idea at all. Arthur C. Clarke thought it was all monoliths.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate I want to remain civil, unlike you apparently. Are you unsure of the words or the order that they are in? Which part would you like me to reiterate?
I don't claim to know where the Universe or life came from. Science is not far enough into its interrogation yet, and it might be the ultimate triumph to work it out. However, I'd postulate that life occurred sometime after the first self-replicating carbon based molecule formed, either here or elsewhere in the universe (panspermia).
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Human Consciousness? We are biochemical machines. We respond to stimuli just like spiders and ants and computer programs, be it in a more complex form that includes our memories, our individual neurology, and genetic make up.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the Aha, I think I understand you now. The old phrase was "meat machines." I wish you much luck on selling this idea to mankind, and also in constructing an ethical & legal code that works for "meat machines." It sounds like you have no truck with individual responsibility --- how could you, with a "meat machine?" And of course the sanctity of human life has vanished down the memory hole.
By the way, I'm not a Christian.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate As for the sanctity of human, we can only assert that we either have exactly the same right to be here as anything else, be it an ant or a tree, or we equally have no right to be here. Our sense of morality can be demonstrated from the importance of human solidarity, whereby to ensure the survival of our species we had to work together, to share food and shelter, to protect our children, to affect altruism. These were and still are essential in our survival.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate It really does give credit to the phrase "more than the sum of our parts", in the same sense that a computer is more than just a collection of electronic components.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate This is the difference between the objective and the subjective. To be objective is to accept hard earned fact, even when it is inconvenient or downright contradictory to what one may have previously believed or wanted. I don't like to think of us as "meat machines" (by the way I'm not sure whom you quoting there), but nonetheless that is the nature of our existence.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Because I don't know where the Universe or life came from, does not mean that I can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale takes my fancy.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the But I think you would admit that the idea of a Creator God is hardly "whatever fairytale takes my fancy." It is one of the oldest concepts of the human race. The Indo-Europeans of 5000 BC prayed to Deiwos, and the American Indians spoke of the Great Spirit. Star Wars called it "The Force" and Arthur C. Clarke envisioned it with monoliths. It's not just a spur-of-the-moment fancy, as you imply.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate True, you didn't necessarily choose it. You could very well have been raised with these convictions. Virtually every culture has it's own story of creation, and the vast majority differ in detail. It seems that time and the place that you were born often has great impact on the beliefs that you continue carry (this is by choice, be it through your own reasoning, or lack of recognising its significance, or even pressure from family, friends, peers, or indeed all three of them).
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Next, leave reality to physics. The argument for god is a separate argument to that of religion. God(s) exist in the domain of the metaphysical, that is to say objects that transcend physical matter or the laws of nature. Reality in its broadest use describes the way objects exist, based on objectivity rather than subjectivity.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 Why should I leave reality to physics? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. You might as well say, "Leave reality to the nearest priest." :-(
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate Physics is the most fundamental science, and therefore the key player. Faith is the total surrender of inquiry - it is to accept an idea without challenge. Science is the study and ruthless scrutiny of nature. It observes a phenomenon, puts forward a hypothesis, and then tests it repeatedly in every way that could potentially prove it false. If it stands up to all scrutiny, you can call it a law. A miracle is the suspension of a law or laws, and trespass on the territory of science.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 Why should I leave reality to physics?? If I do, physics seems to have discovered that matter is simply concentrated energy, and energy is...what?
Some physicists believe that the underlying reality of the cosmos is intelligence, and others believe it is matter.
I'm a lukewarm Theist, not a Catholic and not a Christian. I value wisdom over intelligence. I presume you know that loss of faith leads to loss of population.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate You're a lukewarm theist, is that what you'd say to this god if you really did find yourself standing before him? "I believed these bits, but I didn't like these bits". I'd come out of that better saying "I couldn't bring myself to believe any of this. I found a very effective method of discovering things, and you didn't show up in the results. You either made it so that I couldn't find evidence for you, or I just didn't have long enough to find you".
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Yes again, I don't claim to know what energy is - but that doesn't mean that it is magical. You'd have said the same of matter as you have energy, before Einstein derived E=mc^2. Not knowing something is not a license to fill in the gaps as you please, and then expect to be taken seriously. To not know something simply means that we must look harder and not assume that we already know (the word objective springs to mind again).
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate A baby child is not of sin; a baby child represents the perfection of innocence.
I am not perfect, but unlike you, I will not apologise for being human.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 This is your worst and weakest point. The little baby is utterly innocent and good, you say. I don't support Original Sin, but I certainly do not support your idiot vision of humanity. I don't care about your apology or my apology: that makes no sense to me at all. But it seems clear that some humans are born dangerous.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate I absolutely agree, some humans are born dangerous. They are called sociopaths and psychopaths. People that do not understand the needs of others, or even delight in their torment.
You don't believe in original sin? So you got rid of the immoral bit that you didn't like?
That would be why my comment about original sin didn't make any sense to you.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the As a Theist, what do I have to do with Original Sin? Nothing.
I would only note, with Dr. Johnson, that all the laws of heaven and earth cannot stop people from committing crimes.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate So you presume that it is fine to cherry pick your god's word? You don't think that he will have a problem with that?
That is true, people will not be deterred by law, celestial or not. People commit crimes for profit, through compulsion, or passion.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate According the bible, we are born in sin. We are created sick and then commanded to be well. Fortunately for us, a little over 2000 years ago, a god cunningly sent their only son to an illiterate part of the Middle East to save us from our sins. The Chinese could read and write by this point, but were not suitable candidates to receive this person for some mysterious reason.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 I'm sorry, but this is too silly to reply to. 2000 years ago almost everyone was illiterate, and I am not familiar with this silly story of Jesus going to China.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate No, he didn't go to China. That's why you're not familiar with the story. Tell me why I am wrong, don't run away and tell me that I am silly. Why did Jesus not arrive in China, where people were more intellectually accomplished? Am I to presume that it was your god doing his mysterious thing?
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the Why do you imagine that the Chinese were more intellectually accomplished than the people of the Mediterranean??? Do you have a Chinese Plato or Aristotle in mind? Or anyone at all, aside from Confucius and Lao Tzu?
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate Why do you believe that they were not? The intelligence of a civilisation is not defined by one or two great thinkers, but by the advance of skills and knowledge utilised by the population as a whole. You've given two examples of revered minds from each side of the coin, those from China and those not. I don't understand how you derived your assertion that the Chinese were not more intellectually developed?
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate With regard to my comment, “we cannot be good without god”: What is the point of religion otherwise? Religion must make this assertion. Why on earth would anyone sign up for it if they had not fallen for this disguised insult against our most basic integrity: that we are incapable of an independent capacity to be moral people? Even with ‘help’ from this invisible hand, a disturbingly large number of priests still can’t keep themselves away from a child’s innocence.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 What is the point of religion otherwise?
Well, one tiny point is to understand the cosmos correctly. There is God, there is man, and there is the world. They cannot be reduced to one another. That is, "the world" is not God (pantheism) and man is not God (Hinduism).
If God is there, presumably we want to get in contact with him (and to stay on his good side).
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate No, it's not to understand the cosmos. Instead it has made false claims about the cosmos. Galileo was the first to recognise that the Sun did not orbit the Earth, that we are not the centre of things. What did the catholic church do upon hearing his new insight? They threatened him with torture and death for disagreeing with Psalms 104:5 "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved".
God is not a component of science. Science is the best tool to interrogate reality.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the By the way, your telling of the Galileo tale is historically false. The Church never threatened him with torture. I sentence you to reading one real history book before saying anything more about Copernicus, Kepler, or Galileo. You're just repeating what your biased teachers taught you, and it's a complete lie.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate You deny that the church had any hand in silencing him, because his works were contradictory to to bible? I cannot argue with denial. Besides, you've already implied that you care little for reason.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate Your comment was at best ill-informed, and at worst disgustingly immoral. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I will presume the former, and that you look upon child rape in the same dim light as me. It is THE single worst act conceivable. The catholic church is the largest paedophile sanctuary in history and you will find few who are stupid enough to attempt to refute this.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 Well, thank you very much for assuming that I am not a child-rapist. I will return the favor and assume that you are not a child-rapist.
I doubt that the Catholic Church is the "largest paedophile sanctuary in history," but how could I possibly know? Recent news suggests that college football and Hollywood are not far behind, but evil is evil.
henrycate 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
@henrycate Did you not see the catholic sex abuse scandal in the papers and on the televison? It was at the forefront for weeks. The catholic church is far, far bigger than college football and Hollywood and far, far more powerful. "Not far behind" is a very impressive exaggeration. However yes, it's still inexcusable and must be fought.
Sc7the 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@henrycate I will start with your pope Benedict XVI comment amongst the other items that you have laid on the table. Yes, I am morally superior to pope Benedict XVI. This is because I have no history or intention of protecting and enabling the institutional scale of child rapists (torture is probably a more fitting description than rape).
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@henrycate No, I won't insult you. I've given no reason in anything that I've previously said to suggest that I would. I have prepared a fairly lengthy response that I had hoped to email to you, but I will have to settle for these comment boxes. I apologise if they come to you in the wrong order.
metalheadx100 1 month ago
@metalheadx100
Once this light has shone into the heart, no darkness can ever overcome it. I believe that light to be a reality, because I have myself experienced it. I believe it also to be the Truth, and I think it not inappropriate to call it God. I am an academic scholar, but I have come to realize that pure reason is unqualified to penetrate the mystery of God’s light.
--A. J. Aberry
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate A) It seems that we have reached the inevitable impasse. I take from this that you've abandoned objective reason in your argument, and indeed my words cannot resonate with the wilfully deaf. This must be your wisdom that is more important than intelligence. Belief is to accept something as truth in the absence of evidence. You know that you have been out-gunned, but still you cling tightly.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate B) It is your right to believe what you wish, however wishful, but this belief cannot be expected of others, or in children. It is important that they are taught about human history and culture, but this may not be taught as truth. It may not be taught as truth for the same reason as the idea that we live in a computer generated world. We could never show this factually, and we cannot bring it to the table claiming it as truth. Truth is obtained through our interrogation of nature.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate C) It concerns me that the children in this video take belief like yourself as a virtue, probably because this is what their parents have taught or encouraged. I do not presume that this was done in malice, but rather the lack of critical thought.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate D) Through the ages the argument for god has changed little, unlike the advance of science. The supernatural must make a retreat every time science takes a territory once held by faith. Religion was an early attempt to explain our reality, and given the scarcity of actual scientific knowledge in these times, it was the height of reason. As the ages progressed the scales tipped the other way, and now faith has abandoned reason altogether - if I am to understand your quote correctly.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate E) You have responded to me in anger and frustration, and have abandoned objective reasoning, have been unable to make a moral argument and now expect me to take wisdom and intelligence as two independent articles. Use a dictionary, look them up.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate *Human history and culture in paragraph B is a referral to religion and god. Read: {It is important that they are taught about all religions and gods, but they may not be taught as truth.}
Apologies for not expressing myself as intended.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@metalheadx100 Actually, not. You may be infinitely surprised to discover that there are 100 million Chinese Christians, and they regard your views with contempt. (If they regard them at all.) The religion is also growing by leaps and bounds in Africa and Latin America.
Just by the way, do you regard J.S. Bach, St. Francis, and St. Thomas Aquinas as "slaves?" That needs some explanation, since they were all free men.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate You mean to say that you are not a slave, but you would do whatever your god commanded? Right...
Christianity is big business. The same strand that has a hold in the States, is getting a hold in China, the appropriately named mega-churches. It's easy to see the appeal of a rock concert. It's a very big, tax exempt, money making scheme that appeals to the superstitious. Have you seen the houses that these pastors live in? There is no charitable essence there.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@Sc7the I am getting tired of this discussion. You know nothing about Christianity in China, and your idea that it is "mega-churches" is absurd. There are several books in print on the subject; I would suggest "Jesus in Beijing."
Somehow you have jumped to all sorts of conclusions about me. To clarify: I am not a Christian. I am (I think) a Theist. I don't have a God who commands me.
Your psychic powers are not working very well in regard to me and what I think.
henrycate 1 month ago
@henrycate It was you who re-initiated this conversation, if you are getting tired you've only yourself to blame. Indeed I do not know you, and based on what you have said just now and also previously, you sound more like a deist with a strong apology for those that believe.
I have no psychic powers, but I am a fierce sceptic of all things paranormal and supernatural, so extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.
Sc7the 1 month ago
@henrycate With regard to mega-churches, a quick youtube search will call up the sort of thing to which I refer. There is also a strong political motivation backing christian development, which smells strongly of agenda.
Sc7the 1 month ago
Little do those children know this song was sung while millions of people were being massacred.
LIGHTRONIX 1 year ago
@LIGHTRONIX You should check your facts. The crusades did not result in the deaths of millions. However, the holocaust did.
looneytoonsindville 10 months ago
@LIGHTRONIX Could you please provide some proof for this statement? After all, the hymn was completed in 1871, so it could hardly have been the marching song of the Crusaders (who did not kill "millions"). So I fail to understand what you are talking about.
henrycate 1 month ago
@LIGHTRONIX This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever seen anywhere.
henrycate 1 month ago
I am a soldier of GOD > meaning, lets go forward for PEACE not to figth for WAR. Lord Jesus Christ leads against the foe. Go forward into the battle and see his banners PEACE ON EARTH!!!
valentinebrady 1 year ago
@valentinebrady Hasn't it ever occurred to you that this position might make you feel good, but is in fact simplistic and self-defeating? You have heard of Neville Chamberlain, haven't you?
henrycate 1 year ago
YOUR RIGHT, DON'T BE AFRAID. GOD WILL PROTECT YOU!!!
valentinebrady 1 year ago 2
Is this on one of their CDs?
gone2mexico 1 year ago
Onwards Chartered Soldiers, On to heathen lands
Prayer books in your pockets, rifles in your hands
Take the florious tidings where trade can be done
Spread the peaceful gospel, with a Maxim Gun.
Tell the Wretched natives, sinful are their hearts,
Turn their heathen temples into spirit marts
And if to your teaching they will not succumb,
Give them another sermon with the Maxim Gun.
vik238 1 year ago
@vik238 That might have worked fairly well 150 years ago, but does not work at all in the year 2010, where the truly dangerous religions are Islam and Marxism.
henrycate 1 year ago
@henrycate You'll be surprised how well it still works to summarize the legacy of these chartered soldiers. From Zimbabwe and Quebec, to Pakistan and Palestine - the chartered soldiers of Victorian Britain have left a bloody and indelible mark on the history of the world. Islam and Marxism are dangerous alright, but they dwarf Evangelical Christianity and consumer capitalism.
vik238 1 year ago
@vik238 Marxism has 100 million dead. I seriously doubt that "consumer capitalism" and Christianity are even in the running for that "prize."
henrycate 1 year ago
SICK!!! Brainwashed children. How dare they do this....
DEMAGOGUE666 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666 Are you ok?
Ayothayawarrior 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666 Who, precisely, is "they?"
henrycate 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666
its the liberal multiculturalistic athiests that are brainwashed,
these christian decent nice children are NORMAL its the chavs who litter the street who are brainwashed
VigisKane 1 year ago
@VigisKane NORMAL you say? in a state of nature children would never learn the name jesus christ. a child would only know god if he himself came to such a conclusion. why not see if this happens? stop mindfucking your kids!
DEMAGOGUE666 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666 Nobody lives, or has ever lived, in a "state of nature." ALL children are taught the language and the religion of the culture they were born into. If you view this as "mindfucking your kids" I guess that's up to you.
henrycate 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666 Have you ever wondered what exactly you mean by "a state of nature?" I advise to think seriously about what that phrase could possibly mean.
henrycate 3 months ago
@VigisKane But don't break the rules, whatever you do.
Only negative things can be said about Christianity.
Only positive things can be said about Islam.
It's called "cultural suicide" and it's the new fun thing.
henrycate 1 year ago
how lovely
TheJosh805 1 year ago
When Churchill and Roosevelt met on a battleship to work out the Atlantic Charter, Churchill chose the hymns for the service:
We sang "Onward, Christian Soldiers" indeed, and I felt that this was no vain presumption, but that we had the right to feel that we serving a cause for the sake of which a trumpet has sounded from on high. ... it swept across me that here was the only hope, but also the sure hope, of saving the world from measureless degradation.
—Winston Churchill
henrycate 1 year ago 2
Creepy
furioshonen 1 year ago
the boys can sing in a unbelievably high tone ! Well done, boys !
eolingars 1 year ago
all Christian must unite in the time of War alliance whit all Christian. all Christian united in one Cross, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, ect. We must Unite in the time of battle,, and War against Evil and or Against Anti-Christians
knightslucky 1 year ago 6
@knightslucky
The greates triumph of satan was to divide the church and make us fight against eachoter let never again give him that joy.
DubiaFluctuant 1 year ago
@knightslucky you dont even begin to know how much I agree with you.
mygeeto124 1 year ago
@knightslucky Fucking Nazi Christian piece of shit!
DEMAGOGUE666 1 year ago
@DEMAGOGUE666 You should be aware that "Nazi Christian" is a contradiction in terms.
henrycate 1 year ago
Beautiful. You can't help but feel the Spirit of it all, and surely Ben Crawley does :D
StorminMormin91 1 year ago 4
NIce yahoo name StorminMormin91 :-) Ya, these guys do a great job!
weatherboi 1 year ago
The best years of my life, 1969-1973 as a student in Bristol UK. God bless the Christian England.
quebeckromeovictor 1 year ago
Fantastic video.
TheNativeppl 2 years ago 4
yes all cristian soldiers!!
ruddock76 2 years ago 3
En marcha soldados, de cirsto. con la Cruz delante, marchemos, A la guerra. Cristo el Supromo (Royal ) Master, despejara el camino. antes, de nosotros! dedicado, a, quien menos.!Nazarena!
dansmart11 2 years ago
1:46 - the look of joy on the young lad's face is just beautiful
NetworkNorm 2 years ago 5
As he sings the line "At the shout of praise", its like a wave of joy comes over him!
That has been one of my favorite parts of this video since the first time i saw it.
Greg9942 2 years ago 31
This has been flagged as spam show
@Greg9942 Its because the camera pans on to him you idiot. Its not because hes happy about singing the song, hes happy about being on TV.
randomvidzUKYP 1 year ago
The losers have a new king!
Its name is randomvidzUKYP.
3619Country 1 year ago
@3619Country
How about you make sense?
randomvidzUKYP 1 year ago
it´s a boy, not a lady
studentinberlin 2 years ago
This is a great video. Such a powerful message! I have never heard or seen this song done as well as it is done here.
Greg9942 3 years ago 21
i like this songs a lot my son love it , this is they are going to sing in there recognation this coming march.
sweetross143 3 years ago 5
Ephesians. Love and Blesings to the Family of Christ!
enjoixander 3 years ago 5
One of the best youtube videos I have watch. thank you to whoever uploaded this video...God Bless you
jenceljim 3 years ago 6