@hanterkant It’s as old as English and French. They are both spoken now, and they are descended from the same language. How can they be of different age? It’s a common myth that Gaelic or Breton would be older than e.g. English. Just because Gaelic has been called Gaelic for a longer time than English has been called English doesn’t mean it’s older. It would still be as incomprehensible for a modern Gaelic speaker as English from the same time would be for a modern English speaker.
@Xozny Dutch nor German nor Northern tribes have ever spoken "English". Like those languages, English comes from Germanic but appeared originally on the Island of Britain. Which gives a dated reference: around the VIth century, after the deromanisation of the island and the first Anglo-Saxon settlements. Not before. At this time, Old Breton (Briton, Brythonic) was the common language for centuries in the main part of Britain and predated English.
@hanterkant I never claimed they spoke ”English”, and yes, that gives you a date when English perhaps started to be called ”English” but it still doesn’t mean that the language itself is older than any other Indo-European language since they’re all, as you say, descended from the same language. There are no fixed dates when a language went into its different stages. English is still descended from a language spoken in mainland Europe, and so is Breton.
@Xozny Just because Breton was maybe called Breton and spoken in Brittany when English started to be called English, does *not* mean that Breton is in any way ”older” than English.
@Xozny That is true: every language comes from a source. I just said that Old Breton was spoken before "Old English" and "Old French" named as per se. In fact, I follow you on this issue: when can we say a language differs from another one or from its "ancestor"? Big question for linguists. We know more about the birth of the "modern" languages like French or English than we know about Briton, but the last one predated the 2 other languages, even if all of them come from the same root.
@hanterkant Fair enough, but we’d have to count both the language in its modern form and its ancestors when we talk about a language and its history. Otherwise we could, as said, call Swedish Germanic and say that it’s much older than other languages. It just happens to have changed name to Old Norse etc.
@hanterkant And just because e.g. Gaelic was called ”Gaelic” when Swedish still was called Germanic doesn’t mean that it’s more comprehensible to Gaelic speakers today than ”Swedish” from the same period is to Swedish speakers today. Hence, we cannot claim that Gaelic, or Breton, or any other Indo-European language is older than another Indo-European language just because the name is the same.
@Xozny I don't know for Swedish. I just guess that if some people give a name to a language and carry it through centuries while they use a new word for an evolution of another language, they have some reasons. Grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary? So your idea "we cannot claim that Gaelic, or Breton, or any other Indo-European language is older than another Indo-European language just because the name is the same" is your idea, respectful but very debatable.
@Xozny Bacteries have appeared on Earth billions years ago. Thanks to evolution, they finally became human. Would you say that human appeared billions years ago? Of course not. To be called "human", you have to respect several morphological and anatomical rules.
@XanonymousFY The problem is that a lot of people give certain languages higher status because of how ”old” they are when they mean ”conservative”. A language can change its name but still be very conservative. (Old Norse -> Icelandic) and it can keep its name and not be as conservative (Greek -> Greek). That doesn’t mean that Platon could listen to modern Greek and understand what they’re talking about just because it has the same name. It’s the same thing with Breton.
@Xozny It's the same thing for languages. To be called Breton,French,German etc a language must respect several grammatical rules. Concerning French these rules only appeared in the beginning of the middle-ages. So you can't say that French is 3000 years old just cause Latin is 3000 years old. But concerning Breton,Welsh and Cornish, they have many rules which already existed in ancient Briton, more than 2000 years ago. For example, consonant mutations. So we can say Breton is older than French.
@XanonymousFY Just because Breton has kept is name longer than e.g. French (whose earlier form was Latin) doesn’t mean that it’s older than French because of these reasons. Even if French still would be called Latin, Caesar and Sarkozy wouldn’t be able to have a conversation. And nor would a Breton speaker be able to talk to a Breton speaker from the same time. And you can say that Breton had consonant mutations back then, but French surely also had things that existed in Latin.
@hanterkant If that would be true, we could just change the name of English to Germanic (because it’s a Germanic language) and claim it’s much older than all the other Germanic languages. Or we could change the name of French to Latin, because it’s descended therefrom and then voilà, it’s now much older than Breton.
@Xozny Following your statement (French=Latin), Spanish=Latin therefore Spanish=French! The same with all Romance languages (Portuguese, etc.). English=Germanic and German=Germanic means English=German. Really?
The first written French text is a contract between Charlemagne's descendants, in the IXth century. French didn't exist at the time Breton arrived in Brittany. The Breton word for "French" is "galleg", which actually means "Gaulish", the language heard by Breton tribes on the Continent.
@hanterkant My statement is that French and Spanish are the same age, not that they’re the same language. Breton, Irish, Icelandic, Persian, Sanskrit and Hindi are also the same age, because they’re all Indo-European and still spoken today. If Indo-European was spoken X years ago and then split into different languages like English or Breton (quickly described) that make English and Breton X years too.
@hanterkant And that was maybe the first text that was written in the language called ”French”, but just because French changed name to French doesn’t mean that it’s now much younger than another language, because it still has an ancestor in another language. It’s a development, it’s not a new language just because it changed its name. Breton has maybe had the *name* Breton for a much longer time than French has, but that doesn’t mean that the actual language *itself* is older.
incredible talent
huffman161 6 days ago
Amañ zo tabutoù a live uhel!
IviKromm 2 weeks ago
brav labour
kalfass 3 months ago
Karout a ran patatez ha karout a ran ar video-se.
XanonymousFY 3 months ago
Mad a oa, tudoù!
hanterkant 4 months ago
"Ni zo laouenn da vezañ holl assambles, dehomp da zebriñ yod patatez"
Traduction pour les intéressés (j'éspère ne pas violer les droits d'auteur):
"Nous sommes heureux d'être tous ensemble, allons manger une compote de patates !"
J'en déduis par ces paroles absurdes que c'est une sorte de parodie de chanson américaine !
kokobounty 4 months ago
Fiskal !!!
emzaw1 7 months ago
Quelle langue comique!
le son resemble au francais, mais je n' y comprends rien!
ImaginaryMdA 7 months ago
@ImaginaryMdA This is Breton language. Older (much older) than French and English, and still spoken in Brittany, west part of France.
hanterkant 4 months ago
@hanterkant It’s as old as English and French. They are both spoken now, and they are descended from the same language. How can they be of different age? It’s a common myth that Gaelic or Breton would be older than e.g. English. Just because Gaelic has been called Gaelic for a longer time than English has been called English doesn’t mean it’s older. It would still be as incomprehensible for a modern Gaelic speaker as English from the same time would be for a modern English speaker.
Xozny 4 months ago
@Xozny Dutch nor German nor Northern tribes have ever spoken "English". Like those languages, English comes from Germanic but appeared originally on the Island of Britain. Which gives a dated reference: around the VIth century, after the deromanisation of the island and the first Anglo-Saxon settlements. Not before. At this time, Old Breton (Briton, Brythonic) was the common language for centuries in the main part of Britain and predated English.
hanterkant 4 months ago
@hanterkant I never claimed they spoke ”English”, and yes, that gives you a date when English perhaps started to be called ”English” but it still doesn’t mean that the language itself is older than any other Indo-European language since they’re all, as you say, descended from the same language. There are no fixed dates when a language went into its different stages. English is still descended from a language spoken in mainland Europe, and so is Breton.
Xozny 4 months ago
@Xozny Just because Breton was maybe called Breton and spoken in Brittany when English started to be called English, does *not* mean that Breton is in any way ”older” than English.
Xozny 4 months ago
@Xozny That is true: every language comes from a source. I just said that Old Breton was spoken before "Old English" and "Old French" named as per se. In fact, I follow you on this issue: when can we say a language differs from another one or from its "ancestor"? Big question for linguists. We know more about the birth of the "modern" languages like French or English than we know about Briton, but the last one predated the 2 other languages, even if all of them come from the same root.
hanterkant 4 months ago
@hanterkant Fair enough, but we’d have to count both the language in its modern form and its ancestors when we talk about a language and its history. Otherwise we could, as said, call Swedish Germanic and say that it’s much older than other languages. It just happens to have changed name to Old Norse etc.
Xozny 4 months ago
@hanterkant And just because e.g. Gaelic was called ”Gaelic” when Swedish still was called Germanic doesn’t mean that it’s more comprehensible to Gaelic speakers today than ”Swedish” from the same period is to Swedish speakers today. Hence, we cannot claim that Gaelic, or Breton, or any other Indo-European language is older than another Indo-European language just because the name is the same.
Xozny 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Xozny I don't know for Swedish. I just guess that if some people give a name to a language and carry it through centuries while they use a new word for an evolution of another language, they have some reasons. Grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary? So your idea "we cannot claim that Gaelic, or Breton, or any other Indo-European language is older than another Indo-European language just because the name is the same" is your idea, respectful but very debatable.
hanterkant 4 months ago
@Xozny Bacteries have appeared on Earth billions years ago. Thanks to evolution, they finally became human. Would you say that human appeared billions years ago? Of course not. To be called "human", you have to respect several morphological and anatomical rules.
XanonymousFY 3 months ago
@XanonymousFY The problem is that a lot of people give certain languages higher status because of how ”old” they are when they mean ”conservative”. A language can change its name but still be very conservative. (Old Norse -> Icelandic) and it can keep its name and not be as conservative (Greek -> Greek). That doesn’t mean that Platon could listen to modern Greek and understand what they’re talking about just because it has the same name. It’s the same thing with Breton.
Xozny 3 months ago
@Xozny It's the same thing for languages. To be called Breton,French,German etc a language must respect several grammatical rules. Concerning French these rules only appeared in the beginning of the middle-ages. So you can't say that French is 3000 years old just cause Latin is 3000 years old. But concerning Breton,Welsh and Cornish, they have many rules which already existed in ancient Briton, more than 2000 years ago. For example, consonant mutations. So we can say Breton is older than French.
XanonymousFY 3 months ago
@XanonymousFY Just because Breton has kept is name longer than e.g. French (whose earlier form was Latin) doesn’t mean that it’s older than French because of these reasons. Even if French still would be called Latin, Caesar and Sarkozy wouldn’t be able to have a conversation. And nor would a Breton speaker be able to talk to a Breton speaker from the same time. And you can say that Breton had consonant mutations back then, but French surely also had things that existed in Latin.
Xozny 3 months ago
@hanterkant If that would be true, we could just change the name of English to Germanic (because it’s a Germanic language) and claim it’s much older than all the other Germanic languages. Or we could change the name of French to Latin, because it’s descended therefrom and then voilà, it’s now much older than Breton.
Xozny 4 months ago
@Xozny Following your statement (French=Latin), Spanish=Latin therefore Spanish=French! The same with all Romance languages (Portuguese, etc.). English=Germanic and German=Germanic means English=German. Really?
The first written French text is a contract between Charlemagne's descendants, in the IXth century. French didn't exist at the time Breton arrived in Brittany. The Breton word for "French" is "galleg", which actually means "Gaulish", the language heard by Breton tribes on the Continent.
hanterkant 4 months ago
@hanterkant My statement is that French and Spanish are the same age, not that they’re the same language. Breton, Irish, Icelandic, Persian, Sanskrit and Hindi are also the same age, because they’re all Indo-European and still spoken today. If Indo-European was spoken X years ago and then split into different languages like English or Breton (quickly described) that make English and Breton X years too.
Xozny 4 months ago
@hanterkant And that was maybe the first text that was written in the language called ”French”, but just because French changed name to French doesn’t mean that it’s now much younger than another language, because it still has an ancestor in another language. It’s a development, it’s not a new language just because it changed its name. Breton has maybe had the *name* Breton for a much longer time than French has, but that doesn’t mean that the actual language *itself* is older.
Xozny 4 months ago
Que musicalidade! Parabéns
ClaudioRochaLobato 8 months ago
bevet plab
AllahsKana 9 months ago