八九民運六四事件 June4 Massacre in Beijing (4-6-1989) 香港電視新聞-13

[lobogojo]

解放軍分三路進入天安門廣場的，而為什麼有二邊軍入廣場時沒有死­傷，有民運份子當時也正明沒有死傷的這是事實。而另一邊死傷慘重­包括解放軍及市民學生等。就是當時這班人反抗燒軍車燒解放軍的反­抗做成的事實。

[lobogojo]

為什麼你不看看解放軍未開槍前，這班暴民所作所謂，放火殺人的呢­？？？

[TaiManLam]

@lobogojo

你都是不要再用繁簡轉換了，一看你的文筆，就知你是大陸人，

這些電腦幫不到你的。

[luckbaby001]

我看不到任何軍隊的暴行,一定是往黑描

[deutschlala]

帮共党说话的五毛党死！

[onlokalbert2]

不想記起

未敢忘記

平反六四!

[inld1908]

Chinese affairs is up to chinese people ,

[herifuzhenguan2]

Lol, so you mean the massacre could be conducted as long as the government wants. No one can intervene it, right?

Shame an you Fascists!

[emptyna]

1900年6月17日八国联军进入中国

由于西方传教士、教民与一般民众的冲突、帝后党争等等的因素所引­起的义和团运动，导致部分中国民众袭击在华 的外国人。而清政府面对列强要求剿灭义和团的态度又暧昧不明，因­此几个列强国家决定由自己出兵镇压义和团。 不过一般认为这些列强国家出兵中国的动机并不单纯，

《表面上是维护本国在华人士的权益，实际上是趁机进一步剥削、掠­夺中国的权益。》

八国联军军事行动，以清政府与总共十一个国家签订辛丑条约为终，­其中规定清政府赔款白银《4亿5千万两》( 四亿五千万即当时中国总人口，以示每人一两，达羞辱中国人之意)­，分三十九年付清，被称为庚子赔款。联军占领北京后，对北京皇城­、衙门、官府大肆掠夺，因而造成大量中国文物和文化遗产(包括故­宫，颐和园，西 山以及圆明园)的失窃、破坏。

难道你们都忘记了吗？ 前有八国联军， 后有伊拉克。 西方人以正义与真理之名入侵， 掳掠。。难道大家都眼辖了吗？ 如果六四成功了今天的中国会是什么样？ 你们奢望西方侵略者带给你们自由与民主？

[ouzsd]

去死吧，5毛党。就算当年八国联军怎样怎样，就代表今天用枪打死­手无寸铁的群众就正确了吗！！！区区5毛钱就把你收买了，你真t­md贱格！

[emptyna]

手无寸铁。。。 他们手无寸铁的破坏，抢劫， 烧东西？

[herifuzhenguan2]

你那隻眼睛看到六四再被鎮壓之前出現過打砸搶燒？

[emptyna]

你随便找一个录像然后看看， 还是你要告诉我暴动之中那些被焚烧的建筑和汽车都是解放军用枪打­，烧的？。。

[emptyna]

另外五毛钱？ 这是他们给你的工资吗？ 汗 你别自己下贱就把别人想象的和你一样下贱好不好~~

另外呢， 幻想是好的， 但是如果生活在幻想之中。。那么只能送你两个字 弱智~~

[perfuem]

当时有便衣警察和军人混入学生，还有学生去归还枪支被拒绝，因为­政府需要一个开枪的理由。你可以去查查政府高层当时对到底开不开­枪的辩论，资料公开了

[7boon]

五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛­五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛五毛

[690462729]

东欧巨变，苏联解体

一系列的事件均在88－91年间发生，

如果不去镇压那些被欺骗的学生，中国将发生"巨变"，社会主义制­度被颠覆，改革开放20年的成果功亏一篑，全国将再一次陷入内外­交困的混乱

西方的"和平演变"的图谋将会得逞！！！

亿万人民的和平幸福将沦落！！

那会有今天的幸福与强大？

中国共产党是先进的政党，他时刻在进行着廉政建设就是最好的证明­！！！！这是在中国的老百姓实实在在体会到的！！！！！！！！！

达赖分裂国家，美国政界伺机推波助澜，西方仇视社会主义的罪恶一­刻也没有放弃，

全世界的中国人团结起来，包括台湾和西藏以及所有华人，为中国老­百姓的切身幸福而努力，不去计较意识形态的差别，因为进步的社会­与政党就是先进的！！！！

[jimmyprivate]

廉政建設，不知道你是無知還是家裏有錢不用去管。中國現在這種狀­況叫作廉潔？不是大家有錢了，就叫作好了?

考個車還得給考官意思一下，你家裏有錢，當然覺得無所謂，他又創­收，你又省事，但是這是一個廉潔社會應該有的做法嗎？在香港，有­内地學生企圖賄賂老師想看考試題目，被廉政公署判了半年。但是在­内地，這種現象簡直正常得不能再正常了。

唐太宗令中國繁榮昌盛，那皇帝制度就是好啦，那好啊，我們立個皇­帝出來得了。

[linfengsniffer]

悲哀 杀人还有理

[zhujie80901]

是哪个狗日的扇动学生。真是要拿机枪打。学生是无辜的受害者。扇­动爆乱的人如果有点良知就去自杀。这人现在还活着。妈的。社会安­宁不好。非要搞到人心慌慌。

[justinktang]

the government should NOT have done anything like this to the citizen in the first place under ANY circumstances

[jimmyprivate]

你既然可以上youtube, 就請你把上面6.4的紀錄片看一遍，也許他們是天真，也許柴玲是­個婊子，政府有沒有檢討過自己的過錯呢？有沒有吸取過教訓呢？看­看今天怎麽打壓言論，就知道了。

[maplelum]

你也许会问我，难道中共真的是一点也没有抗日吗？告诉你，中共曾­害羞地说过自己"是一分抗日、二分宣传、七分发展"。然而不对！­是一分抗日、十二分宣传，一百分发展！因为，他们只是在国民党军­队已经消灭了平型关的日寇主力22000人时，林彪才因羞愧而怀­着"将在外君命有所不受"的情绪，命令袭击了日寇的一支补给部队­，缴获了15000件军大衣！而"彭大将军"，也只因为一个军人­的荣誉心，实在已经使他对本党的不抗战和假抗战再难忍受下去之时­，在1939年底和1940年初，不断地派出小股八陆军，炸碉堡­、扒铁路、袭击小股的日军、主要是伪军而已。虽然这一"百排小战­"却被中共吹成了战绩辉煌的"百团大战"，但彭大将军当年就为此­做够了检讨，检讨自己不听中央不给打日寇的命令，检讨自己不小心­暴露了共产党八路军的实力......。彭德怀后来在文革中终究­还是为此丧了性命。就因为他在抗战时期反对伟大领袖毛主席，因为­毛主席他老人家不给他抗日，他却非要抗战！

[maplelum]

抗日战争是中共安插在中华民国的"红色代理人"按照中共"中央"­的旨意故意引诱日军大规模侵华而爆发的。这里面涉及到毛泽东，也­可能涉及到苏联和斯大林。关于中共引诱日军大规模侵华的具体历史­细节，目前披露得还不是太透彻。但是，有一点是非常明确的，那就­是苏联和斯大林一直在想着利用中国牵制日本人，将日本的对外侵略­扩张全部转移到中国身上，竭尽全力的避免苏联和日本开战，使得苏­联不至于落入分别和德国，日本在东、西两端同时作战的致命困境。­从这一点上讲，苏联斯大林是希望中国和日本打大特打。抗战胜利，­应该说最主要是中华民国长期对侵华日军浴血奋战的结果，另外美国­对中华民国的各种国际援助也很重要。至于说中共和苏联对中国的抗­战胜利有帮助，那是中共专门炮制出来的无耻之谈。如果没有苏联支­持下的中共不断叛乱，中国集中全力抗击日本，日本人可能连南京也­攻不下。

[maplelum]

中共至今还背着社会主义的招牌，其实它实行的是权贵资本主义，其­对劳工的剥削，比西方十九世纪原始积累期的资本主义更甚。权贵资­本主义"(cronycapitalism，又译裙带资本主义或­亲朋好友资本主义,中共一直炫耀的经济发展其实是其"权贵资本主­义"，体现的是特权和腐败，是畸形的经济发展，不仅受益的永远不­是广大的人民群众，而且是以牺牲环境、牺牲人民群众及其后代的切­身利益为代价的。最底层的农民，只是想活着，活下去，真的很艰难­，除非死去，也就是直到血汗流干的那一天。广大农村未能解决温饱­的贫困人口，失地失业的贫民，因失学而早早就业的童工和肉体出卖­者，四处流浪的打工者，恐怕他们难以想像权贵们每天是怎样生活与­烦恼的，更想不到权贵们丝毫不会为吃饭和穿衣等基本生计发愁，却­有巨额收入。"和谐社会"真是让人哭笑不得。

[maplelum]

自从中国共产党"走资"以后，中国工人阶级就沦为中国社会最底层­、最没有人权的人物，从各地"闹事"的情况来看，开始多为"下岗­"的国有企业的工人，那是中国宪法中明文规定的响当当的领导阶级­。他们虽然充当体面的领导阶级，但是生活的很不体面，他们的妻女­，有些就沦为卖淫女，供权贵们践踏蹂躏。共产党以领导阶级的"精­神刺激"来吸吮他们的血汗。其实，就是在共产党走资以前，中共也­是中国工人最大的吸血鬼，按照马克思的剩余价值理论，中国工人所­创造的所有剩余价值都落到共产党手里，他们是中国最大的剥削者。­

[maplelum]

如今的中共只可以说是官僚权贵阶级的黑社会性质的犯罪集团来压迫­和统治全体人民。《新华日报》假作慷慨无私的要"民主"，驳斥"­民族素质低下论"，极力鞭笞国民政府的独裁。可是到了21世纪的­今天，中国人民连公开的在报纸上谈论民主都有可能招来杀身之祸，­民族素质低下论又一次被炒得不亦乐乎。再有，从在日本侵华战争中­破坏国民党的抗战，对日本采取几乎完全不抵抗政策，到今天摇身一­变成为抗日战争的中流砥柱......这一切的一切，共产党都可­以大言不惭，脸不红心不跳的大讲特讲，还要全国人民和他一个思想­一条心，这样的无耻，真是前无古人，后无来者。

[maplelum]

西方的贸易，使中国人看到了西方政治与经济体制，及在这一体制下­产生的丰富的物质文明。比较之下，凸现了中国政治的腐败和落后的­经济金融体制。当时一些中国官员，为了私囊，不惜将中国的资源卖­给洋商。更不要说腐败的清廷。如果当时清政府能够顺应形势进行改­革，首先进行本身体制的改革有了清廉的政府，和与西方接轨的政治­体制，法律程序，中西的冲突就不会这么惨烈。可当时的清廷并没有­认识反而以为中国是由于没有洋枪洋炮。更没想到，西方的进入为中­国的进步提供了锲机。虽然商人们追求的是利润，但贸易带来了新的­秩序，带来了进步的社会。这就叫，歪打正著

[maplelum]

由于认识不清，和肆意的歪曲，许多国人至今对百年前的屈辱耿耿于­怀。在讨论国际和中国的形势时，有人曾声称，那些为美国及西方国­家说话的人请先把八国联军的侵略给我说清楚！认为中国就要向西方­说「不！」。这对中国目前民主政体的建立是不利的。因为这一政体­毕竟是从西方来的。我们如果不能对百年前的事做深刻的检讨，不能­吸取教训，甚至以此作为拒绝或半拒绝接受新秩序的借口，继续拒绝­民主改革，逆潮流而动，自己反而会成为历史的罪人。

[snasxs]

民主只是一个政治制度。它解决不了人类社会的本质问题。美对国内­反抗也是穷凶极恶。

不光是众所周知的美军坦克机枪好几次镇压瓦茨种族暴乱。我有死人­堆的照片。被美军残酷击毙的数百甚至数千都是年轻人，黑人孩子。­ 你想看吗？夏威夷独立；肯特州立机枪扫射师生。黑人秘密反政府组­织山狮党，几千人被全歼。大卫教 被放火烧了七天七夜。一个三岁大卫教童尸含子弹重达8斤。

圣经陆加福音19：27 "那些不让我当王的人在那儿？把他们统统带上来，在我面前一一杀­死。 --- 耶稣基督"

[maplelum]

是的民主解决不了人类社会的本质问题, 但是閣下想想在专制制度下, 發生的悲劇比閣下講的悲劇更勝十倍百倍, 民主、人权是人类社会公认的普世价值观是我們所追求的, 不一定得的到, 但是不能放棄追求兒向落後的专制制度投降, 在中国，在这样一个有着几千年的独裁专制传统的国度發生的悲劇已­經太多太多了, 民主或許解决不了, 但是能避免悲劇擴大亦是當前中国的唯一希望

[willingsture]

too many minds

[loveheromore]

CHINA,U HAVE LOST UR SOUL!

[popoTb]

Every country on earth has gone through, civil wars, revolutions and killed it's own kind! just to name a few:

American civil war freeing the black slaves

The french revolution

The IRA in the UK & "brave heart" Scotlanders!

all the above resulted in death and violence.

Whats so amazingly different about T'Square that so many like dwelling on it? Just another fact of the world's history! MOVE ON ppl or might as well dwell on The Black Slavery in America!

[6416708]

hey, pal, glad to see you on youtube, i thought you're gone

[popoTb]

hey dude, thanks for your reply comment! I still here! dont worry!

[maplelum]

yeah true, but the truth about those history are out and past are examined to avoid future mistake. history can be forgiven but NOT forgotten, ccp is trying to forget and ignore this history; it will only repeat itself and the truth about 64 must be taught to avoid another tragedy.

[popoTb]

True! but in terms of tragedy, i think it is unbelievable that northamerican schools are NOT teaching their kids about the OPIUM WAR, the 8 western Power invasion of CHina, the forgotten RAPE OF Nanjing in CHina and so forth. These are what i call tragedy.

I respect those student in 64 but revolution takes sacrifices. The New Capitalist China we see today is partially credited to the sacrifices of these students. Their lives were well cost because they speed up the transformation of CHina!

[maplelum]

you have a good point, but the other side of story is if those western countries did not invade china, china will not progress toward the modern world. Chinese communist party killed more chinese than all those foreign invaders combined after 1949, why ccp don't teach our kids about what they did in school? i just think we need to look at ourself before pointing finger at other.

[popoTb]

But I also think that western ppl should look in the mirror b4 they point their damn fingers at China!

WRONG! Nations such as U.S.A, British, Germany, France & so forth DID Invade China and colonized it. The damaged they have done was profound and long term. Their sale of Opium/Cocaine/Heroin destroyed China and it people.

CCP is just a label as same as democrat, liberal or what not. These r the products of the human mind! And we are more similar then we are different!

[popoTb]

Samething, if the Culture REv didn't happened then China wouldn't be what it is today! The NEw Socialist/Capitalist China is not achieved through dreams and words! It is the blood and sacrifices of countless Chinese lives that revolutionized and transformed China into today!

We as modern Chinese should treasure and enjoy the China that we live in now!

[maplelum]

western power did have profound impact on china, negative and positve both, as a chinese we need to examine ourself rather than blaming the foreigners. Most chinese at homeland DID NOT enjoy modern china, 64 is explain why, because we didn't examine what ccp did, ccp murder more chinese than all those foreign invaders combined, and problem in china are mostly created by ccp, also a foreigner invader made by russian. If you don't realize that, china will never progress to avoid future tragedy.

[popoTb]

LOL if we are NOT to blame any one for the mishaps in CHina! Then i DO NOT think is fair to blame CCP as well. The most important aspect is that CCP is Changing and adapting and make a better China that we have seen since the Tang Dynasty!

I agree that NOT every CHinese in the mainland have the opportunity to prosper from the NEW CHina as of yet. However, the point is that MORE and MORe Chinese will be.

Just Look see how the CCP have dealt with the current SNOW STORM disaster! Good Job

[maplelum]

i didn't see they did a good job, you watch too much cctv, this system reacted slow to natural diaster, and show just how fragile the infrasture under ccp leadership, due to corruption, many bridge and road are built unsafely and ccp admit more than 60% of its public construction are NOT SAFE. More and more chinese are suffering from ccp leadershp and corruption, not more and more are prosper from it.

[popoTb]

Sorry bro. I watch TVB from Hong KOng, which is one of the world's renown TV station. known for is fast and righteous News reporting. LOL...your prejudice againt CHina has blinded you from the truth. All you see, actually, all you WANT to see and hear are the negatives about CHina.

Don't get me wrong my friend, i do see many problems within the mainland that need immediate resolution. The point is however, as a CHinese ourselves, we should help our country! Do what we can to contribute!

[popoTb]

I think is time for Chinese (overseas or mainlanders) to be given a chance to be able to LIFT OUR HEADS UP! CCP has given us this chance with its transformation to Capitalism!

I am a overseas CHinese Hong Konger! i am damn proud of being a CHinese & that my motherland is strong & known to be the "BIGGEST THING" in the 21 century!

I rather have a government system that is willing to change then compared to a Gov't that is ignorant like the U.S Bush administration with the war in Iraq!

[maplelum]

china have the worest type of capitalism, capitalism require demoncracy to back it up the rights of labor union, without it, it is more like slavery. chinese labor working for very little called 权贵资本主义世界经济学界公认为不正常和极危险的现象。国内劳工­没有任何保障，任由盘剥，宝贵的自然环境遭到极大的破坏，中共以­此来获取畸形的GDP增长，这才是真正的丧权辱国。要有民族尊严­，不是单看有没有经济增长这么简单，必须要有民主制度、经济繁荣­、人民生活富足才能得到别人的尊重，和世界上其他国家民族真正平­等。看看今日，经济好像上来了，伴随经济一起上来触目心惊的问题­：国内贫富加剧，买官卖官等丑恶现象死灰复燃，贪污腐败泛滥成灾­，官民矛盾日益激化，政府诚信广受质疑；国际上，我们像是文明开­化前的野蛮民族，一而再再而三成为各国舆论嘲笑讥讽的对象，连带­出口商品遭歧视，政治、经济、文化、军事的国际环境似乎对中国渐­成围堵之势

[popoTb]

Democracy, communism, republic or what not, is just label. It is the product of the human mind. And as my high school teacher in Canada once said "We are more similar then we are different then we look." There is no perfect gov't system in the world. Adolf Hitler of Nazi Germany was elected democratically. G.W. Bush was too. So do we blame the ppl of these 2 nations for electing these mad man resulting in W.W.2 (holocaust) and the war in Iraq?

Is democracy the Golden Thread?

[popoTb]

If the CCP is not changing and learning from history! The NEW Capitalist China would NOT exist! Therefore, CHina would still be in extreme poverty!

Dont forget the Chinese gov't might have lead the country down the wrong path before in history (Cultureal Rev'tion). BUt they have learn and is willing to change!

[maplelum]

that is the part i don't agree with you, they are still leading the wrong path, and it seems ccp didn't learn from history, the corrupt system of dictatorship didn't change, most chinese didn't have a chance to prosper because of this system, spend more time inland china, you will understand why this system will never work.

[popoTb]

Dictatorship? The Chinese gov't elect a new Leader every 8 years now! Corrupted system, i agree but so does the U.S gov't and in fact all over the world! Even in Canada where i grew up in! The Canadian gov't just had another corrtuption scandal involving a former P. Minister. Its a quality of human nature to be greedy! The world is not perfect my friend!

Wrong path? So what is the right path for China? To go democratic, is that it? Is democracy the golden thread to all problems?

[maplelum]

we don't call that an election when there is only one man running the office. Yes, even country like US or canada have corruption with media and democracy in place, imagined what will happen if no media nor democracy in place, it will just be worest, which is what happen in china. i never said democracy or the world is perfect, but there is a difference between bad and worest. US and canada have a bad system, yes, but i rather have a bad system than a worest system in china.

[popoTb]

LOL you should know that the root of communism comes from the West "Russia". China adapted the system thinking the western ideology would work the best for CHina. And it resulted in disaster, the CHinese gov't doesn't even have to admit formally. Anyone who is not blinded can see the changes that CHina has made in the past 30 years. In terms of your so-called Human Rights, FREEDOM and private ownership of properties.

[popoTb]

Democracy Communism, Republics or what not, is just a label titling the same hyprocrisy. The bottom line is that these ideologies are the products of the human mind! And as my high school teacher in Canada once said, "We are more similar then we are different aside from our skin color."

There is no single gov't system that is perfection! I am trying to be as neutral as possible. Right or wrong China will find its own path! Give China a chance to triumph! And give urself a Chance!

[maplelum]

everyone want to give china a chance, but ccp didn't give china a chance. still the same system that masscare million of their own kind. ccp can use democracy, communism, republic to hide their true natural, but all in the end is that brutal dictatorship over and over again, friend, i hope you realize that and stop making false hope on ccp.

[popoTb]

Your have the right to believe whatever you want to. But the fact remains the same! CCP or not it doesn't matter. What matters is that the quality of life and life style of Chinese mainlanders are changing for the better every day. If you travel to CHina you will witness that. Politics may divide our views! But to me, the most important thing is that my ppl (CHinese) are living better lives in CHina! ANd thats all that matters!

Peace out..

[maplelum]

this is the part i don't agreed, 80% chinese are not in the city having worest living condition ever, during mao's time, though poor, they have right to housing, to hospital and right to education, also right to birth, now they have nothing, they can't afford house, can't afford hospital, education, not allow to raise children, they are paying the price for this change you are talking about, now things are getting worest with extreme weather and inflation day by day.

[popoTb]

True, in terms of inflation and natural disaster currently happening in CHina. Inflation is a problem that needs immediate attention. As to the once in a century snow storm, i think the CHinese gov't did an exceptional job handling it!

With regards to those mainlanders that are left behind from the booming economy, I say that it is the result of free enterprising and your so-call free market. Just like in America, the fit survives. That is why the chinese gov't is boosting education!

[maplelum]

but it is not a free market, few ppl with power abuse their power to disturb the free market, without demoncracy to guanatee the basic right of individual, there can be no free market. about the snow, just show how terrible the corruption are, roads are built with third rated material, bridge/building are falling down like plastic, not to mention government's slow reaction to the problem. remind me of war of japan when warship don't have enough canons due to corruption

[popoTb]

I have lived in Beijing & Canton for years! Corruption exist, even the Chinese gov't admit that. The problem is not with the Centeral gov't. It is the provincial, city & village gov't that is difficult to control!

The corruption problem lay deep in the CHinese culture & traditions! If u & i were given the power, we may too be enticed!

Taiwan is democratic & so-call FREE. Their corruption problem is just as worst if not more then CHina! Democracy may work in the west but not in CHina!

[maplelum]

CHinese have a long history of Dictatorship, which is the source of all corruption, taiwan corruption is bad, but still not to the level of china, dictatorship clearly doesn't work in china either, china never suffer from democracy, it only suffer much from its history of long dictatorship, i don't understand your logic. China never give democracy a chance, why you said it doesn't work in china?

[popoTb]

U have to understand that CHina is NOT a dictatorship anymore. Democracy won't WORK in China Because it ain't even working in the WEST! Canada is so-called democratic but more Socialistic if you ask me. THe U.S can't even separate Church from State! The Church community in AMerica chose the President cuz they got most of the ballots.

[popoTb]

China is in the process of inventing a new form of political system that is never before seen in the world. It is the merge of Communism, Socialism, Capitalism and Democracy. China has learn that NO single system is perfect! Combine them all and we have the CHina we c today & in 20-30 yrs we will c the perfected version of such system!

[maplelum]

that system is called brutal dictatorship. please stop dreaming and face the reality. ccp only interested about power, never care about the well being of chinese people

[popoTb]

You can name it whatever you want to "Brutal Dictatorship", "Communist CHina", "the Regime", or what ever. My friend i ain't saying China is perfect but is far from what it used to be in the 50's to the 70's.

As i have said, "I try to be neutral as possible." I try NOT TO TAKE SIDES!

China has gone through a rough time with a lot of blood shed from W.W.2 to the 60's Cul REv. I AM JUST GLAD TO SEE CHANGE IN MY COUNTRY. And that the CHinese gov't has learn from history!

[maplelum]

learning hisotry meaning learn from your mistake and therefore you can avoid another tragedy, the root of those tragedy in china are dictatorship, a few people deciding the fate of most people based on their own selfish interest, this it the bottomline, if we allow a few people decide things for us based on their selfish interest, the tragedy will happen again, for ex, i said i should spent your money for you because i know what is good for you, that is the logic still running in china.

[popoTb]

OK lol..... our debate in going in circle! You are using the same points over and over! I have answered this before and i won't answer it again !

A "debate" is to bring up new ideas for discussion and for others to make rebuttals! If you continue using the same arguments over and over then thats call ignorant!

ONE LAST TIME China is NOT a dictorship anymore! DO YOU UNDERSTAND? The chinese leader is elected within the gov't every 4-8 years! Remember who was before HUjinTao?

[maplelum]

again, an electon is when 2 or more indidvual run for the office, who is the other guy HujinTao running against? HinjinTao is pointed leader by DnHaisoPing, because he like him, that is not dictatorship, what is?

[popoTb]

Hu jin Tao was not appointed by Den Xiao Ping LOL.....i thought u knew better and was more educated then this.....i was wrong!

It was the former CHinese Leader (1997-2004) Mr. Jiang Zemin that was appointed by Den Xiao Ping (watch ur spelling) its "Den Xiao Ping"... Not "DnHaisoPing", AAHHh....i didn't know i was debate with someone on the topic of CHina that knew so little about CHina!

I REST MY CASE! COURT ADJOURNED!

[maplelum]

that is the part you don't understand, Den Xiao Ping appoint his next leader ALSO his next next leader to make sure his place is safe in the near future. you really need to learn about this history, which i am surprised you know so little, this is widely known and even ccp stated that.

[herifuzhenguan2]

I read your comment on the video about t'square. i was shocked that you know so little about China but still blaming others ignorant about China. First, Hu Jintao was appointed by Deng as the leader after Jiang Zemin. This is the commonsense of China. Every educated Chinese know this fact. But you don't. please ask someone who really grew up in China and see what you got. Second, Jiang Zemin was in office from 1993 to 2003, not(1997-2004). third, the term of Chinese President is 5 not 4.

[herifuzhenguan2]

Moreover, it is Deng Xiaoping not Den Xiaoping. And I'm stunned to learn that you can't even write or read Chinese. That means you never lived in China or Chinese Hong Kong. But you still tell people how deeply you understand China.... it's really a shame. Your ignorance about China is totally exhibited in your comments and the theory you told me, such as "Chinese is not pissed off by the censorship"

Please! Do some study and learn more about China, before you address you patriotism on Youtube.

[popoTb]

Further more, the democractic gov't of Taiwan is NOT control by the ppl but instead it is the Taiwanese mafia ("Red Door", "Jok Lung Bon") that exsert the most power in Taiwanese politics. Elections a tampered. You know the meaning of "Black GOLD"?

I hate to admit this but the CCP of China is the MOB! So no other street level selfish Gangster can exsert their influence in Chinese politics!

Lastly, even a blind person can see that China has change to Capitalism. Denial of that is ignorance

[maplelum]

i know black gold in tw, but still not to the level reached in china, because democracy is working, those mafia have to hide in tw, i seen their funeral one time when their boss died, they are being chased by the tw media like dog, anyone going to the funeral will strip search by the police, i don't think u really understand the politic in tw.

[popoTb]

U should get ur facts right! I think more CHinese ppl were slaughtered in the sum of OPIUM War, 8 Western power invasion and W.W.2 in CHina then what the CCP did during the Cultural REv. On the contrary, there is a BIG difference between foreign INVASION and Chinese fighting amount ourselves behind closed doors!

What the CCP did before was wrong, they know that now. Though the CCP didn't formally admit that but ACTION speaks LOUDER then words. Look at CHina today, the result of CHANGE!

[maplelum]

when you said someone change, that someone have o admit he did wrong and swear never do it again, did ccp did that? the same system still in place and will do the same harm in the future, you probably didn't understand foreign invader killed their different kind, while ccp killed their own ppl, which is even worest because crime are higher when you killed your sister and brother and relatives.

[popoTb]

LOL even W.G. Bush didn't ADMIT the war in Iraq was wrong! And sending his our troops to Iraq is a suicide mission!

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THEN words! The Chinese gov't has changed and move the country into industrialization and globalization! Thats says it all! U can deny it if u want to then U R BECOMING what u HATE "Communist"!

It is because Chinese LIKE URSLEF, extreme, ignorant, denial, Hateful, that led to CHinese killing CHinese! IF u say CCP should Change...U Should change First!!!

[maplelum]

chinese like you love the communist are so extreme, living in denial, it is someone like you who refuse to see what ccp did, allowed ccp to rule in dictatorship and slaughted all those chinese ppl. ccp did change, but didn't change to the right direction, the root of problem still there, the facts are when the system doesn't change, only policy change, it's meaningless because policy can be changed by the system anytime to go back to the dark regin again.

[popoTb]

LOL FIRST i am not a communist! I am neither for or against communism! Consider me as a spectator watching the game from the side-lines - I see things a bit clear! what i see is change in CHina, for the better and for the worst! But the CHina that i see today compared to the CHina that i saw in da 90's, MUCH HAS improved! NO one can deny that! Its the life style of so many that has improved, though meanwhile so many are still in poverty!

[maplelum]

no denial on 20% chinese ppl getting out of poverty in the city, and i never said you are a ccp member, but i think at a very heavy price on the other 80% and the environment. This model of few people won and majority lost is not sustainable, in my opinion, just like to share with you.

[popoTb]

This is what you exactly said,

"chinese like you love the communist are so extreme,"

My implication is that you are suggesting I am a communist fanatic! Which i am not!

The gov't of today's China has transformed so much and has opened the "Iron curtain" so wide, that is hard to believe that CHina is still communist! The title hasN'T change on the Label of CHina, its still communist but the insides, the policy, the people, the GOVERNMENT has move so far away from that!

[maplelum]

it was never communism after 1949, it may sound strange but we are know it was dictatorship all along, it never changed, using name like capitalism, communism are only way to hide the true natural of dictatorship

[popoTb]

LOL.....u r funny !! OK! one simple question ! Who the HELL is the DICTATOR in CHina today?

Don't tell me its Hu JIn Tao! Cuz he is stepping down in a few years!

[maplelum]

yes you don't have a big dictator, you have many small dictator controlling this country, those few smaller dictators control most of our countries' resource to gain wealth and their selfish interest, Hu JIn Tao is just s symbol for this system, under this system, no fair game no individual right are guanarateed, your house and everything can be taken in any time if you are conflicting with them.

[popoTb]

LOL YOU are NOT making any SENSE!

LOL hhahaa..."many small dictators controlling this country" Hahahhaaaa......

Small dictators in America is called "Senators" and in Canada is called "Members of Parliament"

ANd in China it is called "Members of Central Gov't" (人大.. Don't mistake me, i can't read or write CHinese characters! As i said i grew up in Canada and was educated there as well.)

I just find my motherland (CHina) fascinating and it is my home, my country and my love!

[maplelum]

not true, those senators in canada are elected chosen by us, dictators are chosen by a few ppl behind door for their selfish interest, there are a major difference, 人大 are rubber stamp and have no real power.

[maplelum]

it's good to love the motherland, but stop start things that didn't even make sense. motherland is fascinating but not the way you think, as far as i concerned, ccp is trashing our motherland and making it not so fasinating.

[maplelum]

and mao is not dead in turn of his influence on china, his dictatorship continued even he is dead. His symbol still in ten. square, and his successor still use him as a tool to continued his dictatorship.

[popoTb]

LOL....if that is the case. Then i believe that the CHinese people has CHOSEN to follow Mao's ideas!

Again WHO THE HELL IS THE dictator in CHINA TODAY ?

here is the definition of "Dictator":

a person exercising absolute power, a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.

LOl ...hahha i am still laughing at what u said...."many small dictators" hahhaaaa....

[maplelum]

please do not make me laugh, you know what i mean but persist on meaning of word in a dictionary, which is meaningless in our discussion.

[popoTb]

Then what the hell do you mean by saying CHina is under a Dictatorship? Do you mean China is ran under one political system? If so then that IS WHAT you should of said! Not 'Small dictators running controlling the country"

[maplelum]

dictatorship come in many form, mao's total dictatorship, Den's reformed dicatorship, Huo's capitalist(not really capitlaist in reality) dicatorship, in that sense, huo is the dictator, but his power are being shared with few other member, in that sense, his power is weaker than mao's, that is why i said smaller, but in essence it's the same system.

[popoTb]

thats not what the word DICTATORSHIP means!

I am a University graduate, so things like terms and definitions...lol...are PRETTY important?

I think you need to improve your education!

[maplelum]

there are different level of dictatorship, huo hold immense power that is true, but not as powerful as mao, but mao hold more power than any emperor ever existed in china. There are not really absolute power, no one ever have that, even mao have limit on thing, but clearly he is a dictator, so is Huo.

[popoTb]

YOu are using the WORD DICTatorship imporperly! DO NOT use WORDS that you dont understand!

Again here is the DAMN Definition of Dictatorship:

"a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession."

AGAIN tell me who the HELL is the Dictator in CHina ????

ANswer Answer ANSWER !!! Give me a name ..Name the person who is running the DICtatorwhip?

[maplelum]

then, answer me this question, does anyone really have "absolute power", as far as i concern, nobody ever have that kind of power, so nobody is dictator? are you book smart? dicatorship are adj. to describe one's immense power. absolute is an adj. to describe thing, are you really ever in college?

[popoTb]

Hahaha.... "absolute power" in relation to the definition of "dictator" or "Dictatorship" is referring to: "A person with full control over legislation, military, governing, taxation, foregin affairs of a country. This person is neither elected or hereditary to power!"

U need to go get a better education before you bark out these comments!

[maplelum]

we already discussed this, if u really love dictionary and want to be book smart, so be it. there are many example in history proven my point. My advise to me is the world doesn't run on dictionary. Dictionary are written by human may be "absolute", that is why u travel to see things, instead of reading dictionary to find out what a place is like.

[maplelum]

we already discussed this, if u really love dictionary and want to be book smart, so be it. there are many example in history proven my point. My advise to u is the world doesn't run on dictionary. Dictionary are written by human may not be "absolute", that is why u travel to see things, instead of reading dictionary to find out what a place is like.

[popoTb]

My point is that YOU CAN NOT compare apples to oranges! OH MY GOD U incredibly ignorant!

what u r saying is like saying a Lawyer is a like Doctor! Does that make sense to you?

U say China is under dictatorship or "small dictators" but you can't name the dictator?

[maplelum]

i did, Huo is the dictator now, answer me ChiHei is a dictator commonly known in our history, she doesn't seem to fit your describtion of dictator in the dictionary, does it mean she is not a dictator? stop making personal attack on people to prove your point, it's very childish. if you think i am wrong, prove i am wrong, but lauch personal attack, that is incredibly childish

[popoTb]

what the hell are you saying? you are twisting the definition of the word "Dictator" or "dictatorship" then you are forcing your imaginary definition of the that word upon CHina, calling it a dictatorship! Meanwhile you can't name the dictator in CHina today! Because there is no dictator in CHina ! Indeed China is under one political system but that does not mean it is a dictatorship!

[maplelum]

you still didn't answer my question, if ChiHei is not a dictator in history, then what do you called her? When histortic truth conflict your dictionary, you will choose dictionary over widely known truth, what kind of education college have been those day.

[popoTb]

i didn't say that CHi HEi is not a dictator! All kings and Emperors a define as a dictator!

Here are some examples of dictators:

King Henry the Fifth of England,

Julius Caesar of the Roman empire, Sadamhussain of the former Iraq,

Mao of China,

the first emperor of Qin Shi Huang and many many more!

Now do you know the definition of "dictatorship"? A similar word for "Dictator" is " Monarch"

[popoTb]

u r spamming now

[maplelum]

that person is HuoJingTao, but he is not as powerful as mao.

[popoTb]

But Hu Jin Tao is stepping down in a few years! How can he be a Dictator when he is gonna to step down! Dictators either gets thrown over, killed or die naturally otherwise a dictator stand in power for decades (a life time even) to be consider as a DICTATOR!

So what the hell are you saying?

U r trying to change the definition of the englisn word "DICTator"?

If so....then there is no point of our debate!

I rest my CASE once in for all!

[maplelum]

he can appoint another dictator that protect his interest, dictator do step down behind the scene, in Qing dynasty, one emperor step down and give it to his son, there are many example in history.

[popoTb]

But the point is HU jin tao is elected by thousands of "Member of Central gov't" in CHina as the LEader! He was not appointed nor inherited to power! ANd that is the Change I see in CHina today! that is what i Call CHANGE!

[maplelum]

you really don't understand hisotry do you, Den personally appoint him as his next next successor, Member of Central gov't just rubber stamp. even ccp don't deny it and openly "admired" Den's choice.

[popoTb]

what the hell are you talking about?

Den Xiao Ping appointed Mr. JiangZemi the FORMer CHinese leader who was in office FROM 1997 - 2004 after he stepped down then Mr. Hu Jin Tao was elected throught the body of the CENTRAL GOV"T as the next and present Leader of CHina!

Deng Xiao Ping DID NOT appoint Hu Jin Tao to be followed by Jiang Zemin!

U HAVE GOT TO do more search about China! Education yourself first b4 barking out these comments & using words that you dont understand!

[popoTb]

LoL...Not when the Central Gov't votes to elect the next Leader. And most importantly, NOT when there is a limited term period of 8 years in office for a CHinese Leader! Hu most step down after 8 years in office then the Central Gov't will vote for the next Leader!

DO YOU UNDERstand English?

IF you need Referrences, i have no problem of providing you with web links so u can read more about these issues of the NEW CHinese gov't policies and system!

[maplelum]

this is so funny, do you beleive anything the book said? that is what is written on the chinese constitution, which guarantee many rights such as right to media, assembly annd free speech, all of the those rights does not exist in china but are wirtten all over in the chinese constitution.

You are dreaming of what is happening in china, it's not an election when there is only ONE MAN running and when DEN openly appoint him as his cross generation successor.Central Gov't is just rubber stamp

[maplelum]

yeah you can provide me a link to chinese constitution, but they are meanlingless,

8 years huh? tell me which leader in china step down in 8 years in recently history, i don't recall at all. Mao 1949-1976, Den 1976-1997, Jiang 1997-2003, Huo 2003 maybe 2013 we don' know now. None of the leader are 8 years, think before you speak.

your problem is when your dictionary conflict with what is happening in reality, you will choose dictionary over reality.

[popoTb]

Even the American Gov't realizes the fact that CHina is not a dictatorship any longer. American press and media has dropped name calling of CHina as a Dictatorship. They rather stick with "Commun,,,,ist China" or "The Commun,,,,,ist Regime"

[maplelum]

yeah? they name Huo as one of the most powerful dictator in the world today. US is not a basis for truth, it makes a lot of mistake, said US claim there are weapon of mass destruction, but there are none, US are really ignorant about what is happening around the world, so don't US said that US clam that to prove your point.

[jimmyprivate]

oh, ya? how come you add so many ,,, in Commun,,,ist? hahaha, you are afraid of censorship? You really enjoy saying things like this? commun,,,ist? what do commun,,,ist call this? white terror？

[popoTb]

My hong kong Brother, what you are trying to say? I am a patriot of CHina and HK! I think you may have misunderstood what i said in my comment!

[maplelum]

that is what you believe, chinese ppl are forced to take mao's idea, ccp don't even allow media to do a poll on this, so we never know. but i believe ppl want a better life, and will not purse mao's crazy way and bring this country to the brink of collapse.

[popoTb]

Never will China be collapsed! China has 5000 years of history, been through countless revolutions and invasions. Still, CHina stands and prevails!

China hasn't been as strong as it is today since the early Qing dynasty or better yet the Tang Dynasty! CCP or not , I am damn glad to see China on the up rise!

As a Chinese! I am proud..... Can u say that with me? I AM P R O U D to be CHINESE!

[maplelum]

i can said i am proud to be chinese, but not pride of what happen in china. During the height of Qing dynasty, china taken 30-40% of GDP in the world, now only 4% with 25% of the world population, ccp didn't do a good job, also this political system really making foreigner looking down on us as savage nation.

[popoTb]

LOL IT WAS the Last emperor of China and his grandmother "Chi Hey Queen" that brought China the OPIUM war, 8 Western Power invasion then Civil war of the regimes which cripple the country!

History can't BE changed! But the future can be!

[maplelum]

you mean ChiHei right? she doesn't have absolute power either, she want to kill the emperor to replace him with another one, but she can't and only making him a prisoner in history. she likes driving car but was force to give up because her official think it's too dangerous, many of those things show she doesn't have absolute power, but even you said she is a dictator.

[popoTb]

I said she "CHIHEI" was the trigger for China's down turn.... THE TURNING POINT!

[maplelum]

and no doubt she is a dictator in history even though she doesn't have absolute power, i think that rest our debate.

[popoTb]

I DIDN"T deny anything but INSTEAD quoted the Cultural REV as a DAMN example to what went wrong in CHina's communist history!

YOUR DENIAL and your prejudice is obvious however! Ur answers are repetitive! Same damn points over and over, like a dame machine without thought! U sound more COMMUNIST then the Red Guards.

KEEP AN OPEN MIND!

The movement to Captialism in CHina has created billions of jobs, in fact, the average wage for a worker has TRIPLED in the past 5 years.

[maplelum]

average wage for a worker has TRIPLED in the past 5 years, it's meaningless when housing/education/medicaare/co­sumer price go up 10 times or more, the real buying power is actually less, this is a fact, you are the one in denial, face reality and keep an open mind!

[popoTb]

LOl every damn thing CHina does is meaningless to you!

IF you are such the Humanitarian! I think you should GO BACK to China! Stop your Bull Shitting here ! And take action by means of helping the poor in CHina HANDS ON! COntribute to the communities in need, especailly small villages in CHina! YOU SHOULD GO and do that! ACTION speaks LOUDER then your EMPTY words!

FOR GOD SAKE

[maplelum]

gosh i was in china half year and going back in march, i stay long time in china, please do not use personal attack to prove your point

[popoTb]

NICE TO Know that you have TRAVEL in and out of CHina before!! GOOD !!

then listen to this........

If CHina is still COMMUNIST and a DICTATORSHIP and Brutal! Damn... the first thing they will do when you enter port in CHina on March...hahaha.a.. ARREST you! For treason! For being a Separatist!

How damn lucky are you not to be ARRESTED ....hhmmm... i wonder why??? What has changed FOR u too slip through the cracks?

May be Just May be..Cuz China is not as communist as U THINK! OH NO

[maplelum]

i am not arrested because they didn't know my identity, many people are arrested for posting stuff online ccp doesn't like, you know that, the fact i didn't get arrested doesn't mean they didn't arrest people, they did and you know it, so it is a dictatorship, what do you mean communist, ccp was never really communist.

[maplelum]

your logic is seriously flawed, does all killer got arrested? if one killer didn't get arrested, does that mean there is no law?

[popoTb]

What the hell are you saying?

[maplelum]

who said i am a seperatist? i am against ccp, but not against china, understand there is a difference between love for your country than love this ccp regime.

[popoTb]

The point is, if China is STILL communist and under a dictatorship, then ppl like you would be arrested and wouldn't have a chance to travel in and out of CHina as A FREE man!

U dont remember what defines communist? Arresting anyone who says anything against the gov't! ANd you have repeatedly said shit about CCP!

[maplelum]

your logic is seriously flawed, even at the time of Dr. Sun Yet-set, he travel around the world as a free man, the government want to arrest everyone like him, but are not capable of doing that, does that mean Manchu government is not dicatorship?

[maplelum]

and i don't agree with china is stiill communist, china is a country not a person, you should said ccp, please know china and ccp are different thing, please do not mix china with ccp. your problem is always mix ccp with china.

[popoTb]

I said, "IF....IF China is still A Communist Country / politically"

LOl do you know what the American ppl say! "we are a Democratic country!" IF you don't mix the two "democrat" and "U.S.A" together then what the hell defines a country?

[maplelum]

i got your point, but i disagree, china under ccp are under dictatorship, communism is just name tage ccp used to hide behind the true natural of dicctatorship. ccp never really believe in communism, repubic or capitalism, it just use them as a tool to hide behind their unspeakable dictatorship.

[popoTb]

i have kept an OPEN MIND! i have said before in a prior reply that the RECENT..... RECENT INFLATION in CHina is a big problem! IF the CHinese gov't don't react fast and make the right moves! Decades of economic progress in CHina could be jeopardized cus off this problem!!

IF u think that what i just said "above" and "before" is NOT the words of a OPEN MINDED person then....Damn...are you communist or are u simply ignorant?

I have repeatedly stress that i am NEUTRAL! U just dont LISTEN!

[maplelum]

you just don't agree with me and i don't agree with you, i am not communist or ignorant, i got your point and i don't agree, same goes to your position, i did listen but you didn't, you think i am trying to attack you, which i am not, i am just point out the truth i know for you.

[popoTb]

AS TO chINESE killing CHinese!

I RATHER TO BE KILLED - murdered by my own brothers and sisters then die in the hands of a foreign intruder! Isn't that the Chinese way of thought?

[maplelum]

i don't understand what you trying to say, even you like to be killed by your own bro/sis, but think about your brother and your sister, they are forced to kill you for their own survive, they don't want to do it, isn't that the tragedy happened in cult. revolution? No matter how you look at it, such crime is so high no foreign intruder can compare. And this is the crime ccp had done.

[popoTb]

The RED GUARDs in the Cultural REV joined the organization out of pride & believe of Mao! They weren't forced to execute ppl! They though it was the right thing to do! To get rid of Capitalism, da wealthy, da educated cuz they were thought to have polluted minds!

I've READ the entire "RED booklet" A.K.A "Quotations from Mao"!

Cul Rev was a mistake in ideology though the bases of it was right (to oppress greedness and Corruption) but the expression was pushed too far to the extreme!

[maplelum]

the tragedy is one man telling you and use to force you to kill your bro/sis, many father/mother and son/daughter are forced to kill each other, no matter what you said, it's a crime can not be justified.

[popoTb]

lol... Foregin Invasion can wipe a nation out of existance....THE END..! Like the Roman Empire or Iraq today! Civil war may also have the same result! But CHinese are different, civil wars are frequent BUT... BUT if foreign invasion comes, the Chinese ppl unite. In W.W.2 the CCP and K.M.T in the end join forces to fend off the Japs!

Having said that, I would rather be killed by MY PPL "bros or sis" then be slain by the "Gu Lo's" or any other foregin invaders!

[maplelum]

learn some history please, ccp virtually did nothing durint the war with japan, not only that, it thank japan when prime minister of japan come apoloizing in 1960s while mao said he is thankful for the invasion. Truth is japanese invasion is the only reason ccp is in power today. ccp is also a form of invasion pulled by russian, please learn some history

[maplelum]

yeah true, but the truth about those history are out and past are examined to avoid future mistake. history can be forgiven but NOT forgotten, ccp is trying to forget and ignore this history; it will only repeat itself and the truth about 64 must be taught to avoid another tragedy.

[maplelum]

谎言永远不能掩盖血写的事实, 作为我们新一代年轻人,要以史为鉴,从历史当中学习.

潜心探索适合我们自己的一种国家制度.它可以让我们自己的人活得­更幸福.

[chantal8078]

China you have lost your soul You are loosing your international face. The concept of any society is one based on fair play,and you are only cheating yourselves of a future. Please leave Tibet and show the world that you can be great! and that you can act in the the interest of humanity. This could be your GIFT to the World for Beijing Olympics 2008 Would,nt this be a first for Mankind.

FREE TIBET!!!!

[zxsdhr]

Another bitch.

[NotThisMan]

Down with the CCP

[477605598]

nice glasses