PROCESSIONAL ENTRANCE & EXIT: Washington National Cathedral, St. Peter & St. Paul

[Malignus68]

They need a confetti cannon!

[RevWarRev]

Ah, a streamer - yes, see it now. Tis silly, and adds nothing to the celebration. Spastic, distracting, just the kind of thing people watch and wonder: Will it fly off?, catching the eye and drawing it away from its proper focus.

[DBPHuguenot]

@RevWarRev As a former life-long Episcopalian (now Anglican), I recognise the service somewhat. This is the All New 110% Politically Correct Episcopal Church, having now pushed the rest of us out and executing our Priests. They have usurped the old symbolism, music, and Church of England "flavor," and you are right, Rev, used those old symbols as a clanging cymbal to cover the sad fact that behind it all... there is NOTHING. A doxology of politically correct nothingness. How's that, Rev??!

[RevWarRev]

As a former acolyte, I'm seriously impressed with the crucifers and torch bearers. In step, dignified, on point. Lovely! Nice procession, but a little fast. But what is the poor child doing with the long swishy stick - it does appear a bit silly. No snark, please, just a simple answer to a liturgical question.

[brassspitoon]

So many nit-picking fuss budget old maids (male division) commenting on here (see below). The churches of the Anglican communion ordain women. Deal with it in your misogynist hearts. As for "honor the lord" maybe y'all should see a Latin American church service with the mariachi band and the firecrackers outside the church or your average RC parish with the women in spaghetti straps and daisey mae shorts. This procession is the soul of dignity compared to that.

[4yall]

Liturgical abuse, anyone? The guy with the moving stick, and the female priest, for instance, signal a clear and growing detachment towards "freedomized" liturgy... which is not at all fit to honor the Lord.

[pfretz13]

@4yall

It's not a Catholic Church! It's Episcopal, making it one of the more liberal Protestant Christian religions in the States.

[OldPost661]

What's that chap with the stick doing? Cleaning the chandeliers? Getting cobwebs out of the vaulted ceiling? Sorry, that's just silly.

[dsindc]

@OldPost661 Amen ! I hate those things. I have seen them in several churches. My first thought was, what next? The Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders with pom poms ?? Why do we continue to insist on taking the dignity of the liturgy and destroying it ? I take issue with 901cleo. This is NOT a typical Episcopal Church procession. It may be a typical low church procession. An Anglo Catholic parish or cathedral would never allow this stuff. 

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc Sorry, this IS a typical procession of the New, New, New 110-per-cent Politically Correct American Episcopal Church. Very sad, and personally so for my family and me who are, really, without a church after about 160 years. Comment also above.

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot sigh - I mostly agree. I live in D.C. where there is an Episcopal Church on every corner. We still see huge differences in liturgical practice. Having said that, we hardly have a monopoly on bad taste. I have been in R.C. parishes where the introit on Pentacost was "I'm Leaving on a Jet Plane", and everyone including the priest had a balloon. That said, I attended eons ago as a student Archibishop Lefevre, the Traditionalist Bish. at VERY high mass (cont).

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot If you have never attended a Tridentine Mass (like the one I alluded to, celebrated by Archibishop Lefevre), you might understand why the R.C. and eventually Episcopal Churches went to another extreme. I found the Trid. Mass Arctic in its coldness. However, given the current state of christianity, I'm not sure liturgy is the problem. In my travels to Europe, Protestant, Anglican, R.C. churches are ALL on life support. This trend appears to be spreading to the U.S.

[dsindc]

However, let's get back to basics. Liturgy does not equal god, and neither does the church. When the church has TRIED to play god, it gets into trouble, e.g. ( burning Jan Huss at the stake, or threatening Galileo). I have massive problems with the breakaway "anglican" parishes. First, they're not Anglican, and they are dancing with the devil. Flirting with something like the Ugandan Church is evil. They're killing gays. How medieval. Perhaps the Inquisition was "tasteful".

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc I did end with "a Doxology of P.C. nothingness." THAT is the issue, not the celebration of liturgy (though that plays a part). The New New Episcopal Church is essentially deist. Everything's OK, just keep God in your heart. The issue with women priests (certainly) and gays (probably) could be worked out. I could no longer take it when my priest was "executed," by a left-wing Episcopal bishop and 3/4 of the parishioners disbursed. Where were we to go? (more)

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot That the EC has always been tremendously elastic in its theology has been well known for generations. For there to be disagreement in my mind is appropriate - Church tradition and scripture are theologically inconsistent, and I am convinced that to deny this is intellectually dishonest. The Jesus of Mark ( note there is no nativity narrative ), and the Gospel of John are radically different. I have to conclude that any church that codifies dogma is playing a dangerous game.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc I am no supporter of iron-clad theology. Your assertion that the EC is somehow elastic is wrong, though it was true in the past. Today "management" of EC is by policy and swift practice shutting down those congregations and their priests who appear more conservative than the current church demands. You express no emotion for the pain of many who have been forced out. Just going back to my grandparents, we have 379 years of faithful service with EC. It was very hard to leave.

[DBPHuguenot]

@DBPHuguenot One parting response to you in public - You find it (me) disingenuous. We joined the ACA for a time, the better to wait for the Catholic Magisterium/Anglican Use. Within a short time we will be in full communion with the Catholic Church, fully allowed to continue under Anglican Rites. Honestly, I find it worse than disingenuous that you and the rest of the EC (management especially) have no problem with the pain suffered by those forced to depart.

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot Oh please, YOU made the decision to leave, and you whine about being "forced out". You CHOSE that path. You point to the suffering ad nauseum about your family and its suffering at the hands of the 'liberalization' of the Church. Give it a rest. Take that argument to Archbishop Tutu who has aligned himself with the EC. If that's not bad enough, you take pride assuming that your 'church' will unify w/ the RC Church, & that it will accept Anglican inclusion. LOL. Put the bong down.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc A remarkably Christian response from you (hugs). You want berate me about the path WE chose? I'll tell you: The new local bishop declared our Rector (and us) "outside of the Doxology of that of the EC today". The doors were padlocked with the local Sheriffs deputy standing by - as if a bunch of elderly women (EC-DOK) disturbed from their weekday efforts would attack the bishop's representative! A new regime fresh from EC-Command showed up to give the parishioners new marching orders.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc How did we choose to leave EC? We were thrown into the gutter, that's how. A path appeared (God closes one door...), and that was to follow The Blessed John Henry Newman. The Magisterium for Reconciliation and Anglican Rite Use is real, we are in contact with the RC Bishop responsible for the Reconcilliation in US and we and our priests are preparing. About 120 EC or former EC congregations are doing likewise, as our fellows in the UK have already done.

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot As an undergraduate I wrote a lengthy paper on JHN. He and his life partner are buried side by side. The more things change... I did not want to carry this on... and will try to wrap this up. I do feel sorry that you feel so much pain, and ask for forgiveness if I sounded flippant. But I know so many, so so many who have felt exactly the same in the RC church. I will say, if you are no fan of 'iron-clad' theology, you had better become one. I wish you well in your journey.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc Funny that you mention that paper. When I arrived at Oriel they had no idea what to do with "The Visiting (Quiet) American." So to start I was given a Reader from Christ's, and right quick plowed into The Tractarians, JHN, and the Oxford Revolt. Oh I was happy to be rid of that Reader!

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot LOL, yes the Tractarians did seem to be making an attempt at counting the angels on the head of a pin. By the way, I really had intended to say something about your service, but ran out of space. I do appreciate you service to the country and wish you well in your next deployment. I was very close to the 9-11 disaster at the Pentagon and will never forget that day. My parish seems fairly orthodox, and has many ex-Catholics. I don't think one size fits all. So, best of luck!

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc I did love Orial/Oxford. VN war was on. Some older academic chided me The Quiet American after Graham Greene.The epithet stuck. I share it when I run into The Real Thing. The older guys always laugh, and stories or a little literary discussion follows. My wife is British (St. Annes). We have strong UK and HK connections. I hope you enjoy my comment below, though it's more than I should write publicly. It's genuine from the heart of an Old Episcopalian. Thanks for the good wishes!

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc Says "You point to the suffering ad nauseum about your family..." The New EC message - accept and be quiet or go. Many hundreds of similarly situated Episcopalians like us question, pray, and strongly experience *spiritual suffering* on this. Why hate us so? My Profile is open (yours is not). I'll be deployed again soon, I hope forward where I'm most useful, and you suggest that I am a COWARD? Well, I guess you are EC, so in the spirit, God Bless You and Keep You Always, DS in DC.

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot I apologize if I made some ad hominem attack. I don't see where that was the case, but will accept your argument. I certainly never accused you of being a coward. My argument involved certain liturgical trends in the church. I never intended to bring up theology. I find it ironic that you are now joining a church that is about as exclusive as they come. If you feel the need for the RC 'Magisterium' to inform your belief I'm happy for you. I find that spiritually stifling.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc Attack? That would be what you directed at my family and about *spiritual pain* caused to thousands at the hands of The Episcopal Church and it's more recent Presiding Bishops. I bring it up because the very people who use to care about such things have turned their back on what thousands of Episcopalians are presently feeling. Look at how our Congregation was treated! Doors padlocked with an armed deputy on hand in case the DOK attacked !!

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc Apology accepted. A little confession - I may be a "cautious deist" (Jeffersonian). When in the middle of a young Soldier's chest trying to repair damage done by people of Ultimate Evil, I am honored to enter God's greatest Cathedral. I feel His presence; an intimate place where time stands still. A Eucharist between Christ, a Soldier, and me. Sometimes we win. I lost a UK soldier after 11 hrs, more than allowed. Later, he and I and a UK medic had a good, long cry. God enough for me.

[DBPHuguenot]

@dsindc You speak to ME about medieval practices. My military obligation puts me in contact with people who would like to roll the clock back to 1670. In a forward position, I have the honor of caring for men and women who pay for our rejection of that insane idea. I am a Huguenot who's family fled amazingly violent persecution. In America they became founding members of the Am Episcopal Church. Leaving the AEC was very hard. Our Anglo-Catholic church is NOT in communion with Uganga.

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot Thank you for the response. I had to smile at your assertion that the Episcopal has become "Deist". OK, I'll accept that. But I'll point out the the EC has also been Gnostic, orthodox, liberal, conservative, etc. It has even flirted with Arianism. The point is that the EC has NEVER in its history been dogmatic. The Book of CP, and liturgy have provided us with a common identity, but dogma has never been a source of unity. This is nothing new. (CONT).

[dsindc]

@DBPHuguenot Finally, I have no idea what break away group you belong to. However, the largest group- ACNA - see following from an ACNA publication "The Anglican Church of Nigeria declared itself in communion with the new church in March 2009 and the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans has recognized it as well. In June 2009, the Anglican Church of Uganda also declared itself in full communion with ACNA." I find it disingenuous to deny these ties.

[captaincook71]

Who're the people with grey "scarfs" ? A beautiful entrance. But there are many different people: with white or colored clothes. But, who is who? And what's this "strange" way of agitating a little flag in the nave during the procession? Quite different from a catholic procession. Even if it is beautiful !

[901cleo]

@captaincook71 The procession starts with crucifer and torch bearers with choir processing next. Those in purple/grey are "vergers" and assist in keeping order in the service. Those with stoles are ordained clergy. Those with chausables are co-celebrants at the eucharist. Those in white albs assist with the service -- subdeacons at communion. Music and festive pagentry is very much loved in our church. The "flag" is just a streamer.

[901cleo]

@captaincook71  The large red/white flag is the flag of Washington, DC. Each state/territory is represented every year with a Sunday where clergy/bishops from that state assist in the service. The flags of the states/territories of the US line the nave of the cathedral. This is a typical Episcopal procession, of course, on a grander scale as this is the national church of The Episcopal Church and seat of our Presiding Bishop.

[honathanblack]

WONDERFUL, I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW MUCH IS BEAUTIFUL THIS SERVICE.