3-15 Bishop Spong -VS- Dr. Martin - Topic : Sexual Ethics

[mrpayne123]

My post below is not an argument from authority(siting a few people), it is an argument from consensus. These arguments are more effective in areas that have been studied and faught over for a while, like the Bible has been. Particularly it is effective here because all these denominations and Christian scholars have nothing to gain by saying the bible has contradictions, it only stands to decrease the faith of followers.

[mrpayne123]

Ankerberg is great at the logical fallacy of arguments from authority. Of course Evangelicals are going to have a couple books written saying that the Bible has no contradictions, that is a major tenant of their theology.

However, almost all other Christians denominations agree that their are many contradictions and forgeries. What motive would so many Christians have to want to unnecessarily denigrate their Bible? Are fundamentalists just smarter?

[thermionic1234567]

I do not know how John Ankerberg can be a friend of Spong. The Bible warned of false teachers and this man is clearly antiChirst.

[greglee20]

@thermionic1234567 Christ said to love our enemies. Paul said "whenever possible be at peace with all men." You can be friends with people and not agree with them. Are you saying that Jesus would not want us to befriend someone who we have theological disagreements?

[RRHINE1]

CHRISTIANITY IS MERELY SUPPORTING ONE HOCUS POCUS NOTION WITH ANOTHER AND THEN ANOTHER....AND SO ON. (TELLING A LIE TO COVER UP ANOTHER LIE)

AT LEAST BISHOP SPONG ATTEMPTS TO ELIMINATE THE GOBBLEDYGOOK AND ATTEMPTS TO BRING REALITY, INTELLIGENCE AND TRUE SPIRITUALITY TO A SWISS CHEESE RELIGION.

AND FOR THE RECORD, JOHN ANKERBERG IS A COMPLETE MORON

[RRHINE1]

CHRISTIANITY IS MERELY SUPPORTING ONE HOCUS POCUS NOTION WITH ANOTHER AND THEN ANOTHER....AND SO ON. (TELLING A LIE TO COVER UP ANOTHER LIE)

AT LEAST BISHOP SPONG ATTEMPTS TO ELIMINATE THE GOBBLEDYGOOK AND ATTEMPTS TO BRING REALITY, INTELLIGENCE AND TRUE SPIRITUALITY A SWISS CHEESE RELIGION.

AND FOR THE RECORD, JOHN ANKERBERG IS A COMPLETE MORON

[metaldario]

The position that Spong holds is nearly identical with the masonic doctrines of one C.T. Russell, J. Smith, B. Young and others who also perverted the gospel of Christ. Either we have to take God´s Word serious, or we make it a subject of no value! One can´t call himself a Christian and then deny the authenticity of Scripture. That´s paradox.

I can´t prove that of course, but I´m quite convinced that bishop Spong is a high degree Mason (Luciferian).

[DaSungandSoul1223]

Biased moderator. 

[snertster]

A way biased fundamentalist hosted debate against Spong. Spong has done his research, the other guy is simply spouting the "party line" in order to keep power and knowledge within the clergy. Singing "Jesus Loves Me," and calling it Christianity is fine when one is 6 years old. By the time one is 60, it's simply lazy . If you are a believer, you should have done more to learn about it by then on your OWN.

[fittips4u]

@snertster absolutely on spot....lazy believers is what I call them, too. You can believe in God, follow Christ, and not believe in hocus pocus! Bishop Spong actually makes Christianity available for intelligent people!

[Grandecasla]

@fittips4u beautiful point.

[goofy6622]

If you look at the geneology of Matthew you will notice a name called Tamar. She had sex with her uncle to bare a son. That was considered an act of providence and of obeying God. Is it?

[RaGe1069]

@goofy6622

No it's not. No where does God command Tamar to sleep with her father-in-law in order to bare a son. Judah; the patriarch of the tribe of Judah didn't give his youngest son to Tamar to bear children, a tradition in those days after the death of his two eldest sons. Tamar taking matters into her own hands slept with and conceived by Judah, securing her child's lineage/inheritance. God used both of their sins for His own purpose. He gave them free will they made their choice. Read it!

[goofy6622]

Jesus never condones either homosexuality, or fornocation. Not once.

[goofy6622]

1:22 in this video.

The resurrection is spiritual. We as Christians are taught that we too will be raised on the third day, otherwise known as the last day. it was Jesus resurrection that convinced Christians they too would be resurrected. Read 1Corinthians 15:35-41 snd 15:50. Pretty clear.

[thomla7]

A bishop cannot explain the resurrection

[inlight4evr]

everyone is illiterate but you? I think not, lol

[daveyork0]

Spong U Playa!

U da Mannnnn!!!!

[goosejoy20]

Dr Martin is awesome. I don't know why Spong even bothers to call himself a Christian. He doesn't believe in anything.

[nikki2christ]

Spong is surely NOT a Christian. Dr. Martin hit the nail on the head...

Everybody is illiterate but you!

Say NO more Dr. Martin that statement says it all. We need a modern day Dr. Martin & a remix Kingdom of the Crazy Cults. LOL...God bless Dr. Martin!

[ZapruderJr]

Spong is still a heretic, but yeah, from seeing a few different debates Ankerberg has overseen, he is a terrible moderator.

[myintellectualjourny]

(2)

and seeing how it conforms to the midrashic style of Jewish writing of the period (also in the Dead Sea Scrolls.) 

Dr. Martin holds to the archaic traditional understanding of the Church by IGNORING this context. He as such continues the tradition of taking is use of Old Testament allusions as literal and not as it would be understood culturally as a literary form.

Most Christians DO NOT read the New Testament in Context (that of its culture). Teachers like Dr. Martin are to blame.

[myintellectualjourny]

(1)

Dr. Martin said,

"The scripture, in context, is to be taken literally except when... you have language differences, poetry, [or] different forms of speech."

Only he forgot

DIFFERENT FORMS OF WRITING!

Reading the New Testament in THE CONTEXT of 1st century Judaism is essential to understanding its meaning. Bishop Spong's interpretation is informed by reading it within this context...

[robtul12]

That moderator drives me bonkers. He constantly interrupts Bishop Spong and doesn't let him talk. If he asks him a question, he should have the decency to let the Bishop answer it uninterrupted. GRRR.

[Nephilim145]

Jesus talked to us about false prophets and false doctrines and flase gospels coming into our lives. Read the word for yourselves and understand it before you listen to anybody say anything about God.

[inlight4evr]

Bishop Spong contradicts himself way too much. How did he ever become a bishop?

[adstanra]

unbelievable moderator...Spong argues a point , and the moderator recommends books....hmmmm

[myintellectualjourny]

Yeah, quite the smoke screen: Trying to refute a point by referring to books! Hard to argue with that, isn't it? Yes, because it doesn't amount to making a counter point! There's nothing to respond to. "It just says, someone else has done so and you need educated yourself. Moving on..." If the "moderator" thinks has the right to tell a scholarly priest which books he needs to read, he might try demonstrating these books say something the person he's talking down to hasn't already heard! ;)

[davfritz]

I can see the logic in that point. If it was an outright fabrication, it is more likely all the stories would agree. Instead there is a degree of variability that reflects the men's natural recolections (unless the romans were smart enough to build that into it)but this does not lend support to the notion that is is "the word of god" but rather the word of men.

[myintellectualjourny]

I'm always amazed though how often I hear Christians refuting the idea that the Gospels are not fabrications. It seems that this is often presented as a primary alternative to their view which they then feel affirmed in by knocking the later down. The thing is, who thats really studied the subject believes this? Its the least likely naturalistic explanation. Spong's understanding of the NT writers interpreting their experience in 1st century Jewish images/language is the better alternative.

[GreekOrthodoxy]

The confusion Spong speaks of in the Gospels, is proof they didn't fabricate it.

[cmammlj]

Dr. Martin did great-that Bishop believes everyone else is wrong except him. Sad. The Bishop needs Jesus (John 14:6).

[davfritz]

You are reflecting the backgound you are from. You have been trained to think a certain way that is similar to Martin. In these videos Spong realy isn't given the time to explain himself.

[foreverinchrist1]

The Fact! Paul said in Galatians 1:9 If any man preach any other Gospel then what we have preached, let him be accursed. Dr. Martain is reafirming Paul's Gospel.

[RaGe1069]

@davfritz

I know this is a year too late, but I believe he did have time to explain he just couldn't.

[bella50008]

@RaGe1069 ...I agree.

[davfritz]

Typical mechanichaly minded fundamentalists. They can only interperet through a system of material laws. They also have absolute faith that god has somehow controled every hand that has involved itself in the production of scripture. Very sad.

[GreekOrthodoxy]

Why is it sad? You assume a naturlastic perception of history. We believe a supernatural view of the historical process.

[davfritz]

Both you and I might be a bit awkward in our wording here. Tell me, are you fully familiar with Dr Martins denominational background? Is it realy the same as yours? I'm curious.