Bruce R McConkie,What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace, PART 1

[lilbeaveymac]

Funny how much the LDS church has kind of swept men like McConkie under the rug.Most people under 30 in the church dont even really know who he is.

[HappyMNO]

I think us Mormons and our fellow Christian friends we are essentially saying the same thing about WORKS...if you believe in Christ, your actions follow. In no way do we as Mormons believe that we are saved by our own works. We don't even want to focus on works...only focus on our faith and love of Christ. Works just naturally follow...the same as our fellow Christians believe. McConkie is only noting the ones that have no "Change of Heart"

[jaromsmiss]

True faith brings forth works. We cant earn our salvation in any way, but we must have TRUE FAITH in order to be eligible for it.

[omiolo]

In conjunction with the National Governors Association meetings held in Salt Lake City 14-17 July 2011, spouses of the governors visited the Humanitarian Center of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on 15 July.

[omiolo]

Spouses of U.S. Governors Visit Humanitarian Center

[omiolo]

By

demonstrating how the Southern vision eventually came to

predominate, he shows how the Southern Churches became one of the

principal bulwarks in the creation of the myth of the "Lost Cause,"

Southern honor, and curious moral righteousness of the South's

treatment of both slave and freedman.

[tastefulphrasing]

EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL

[Thugnificent1691]

Bruce R. McConkie was one of the greatest apostles of all time

[lyrical77]

@Thugnificent1691 one of the greatest racist and worst interpreters of the Bible of all times.

[Thugnificent1691]

Bruce R. McConkie is an apostle of Jesus Christ. If you mock him, you mock who he represents: Jesus Christ

[tastefulphrasing]

@Thugnificent1691 He does not represent christ.

[12345fraser]

If works dont matter then why was Jesus Baptised?? Also Paul himself had to start doing good things yes he was saved but did he go back to doing bad works no!!! He the started to do good works!

[hsarvis62]

What is your point about Jesus being baptized? Jesus, being God, was and is perfect. His being water-baptized was to identify with us - because that is the reason why He came. He came to be a substitute for us and take upon Himself the penalty that we deserve. If you are saying that our salvation (being rescued from Hell) is a free gift and that it should result in good deeds, I agree. If you are saying that we need to do good deeds in order to maintain it, then I disagree.

[12345fraser]

If you are saying that our salvation (being rescued from Hell) is a free gift and that it should result in good deeds, I agree

I agree also.

[princessjenny01]

Saying you're saved by his death alone is such a cop out. It's not that we do good deeds to maintain salvation but to obtain it. If you're not living a life of good deeds etc. then Christ dying for you was for nothing. We are going to be judged by out acts so wouldn't you want to have good ones on you list?

[hsarvis62]

Are you saying that we do good deeds in order to obtain salvation? That is in contradiction to Ephesians 2:8-9 (saved by faith . . . not the result of works) as well as Galatians 2:16-21 (justified by faith in Christ . . . not by the works of the law . . .if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly). Living a life pleasing to God is a result of our salvation, not a basis for it. Please consider the scriptures I have cited.

[12345fraser]

Without 'works' it is not Faith, to have real pure true Faith it has lots of ingredients, such as, strong conviction, belief, love, unmoved, Hope, and WORKS. Faith is not just one thing it is made up of many ingrediants then it becomes Faith, works alone are not enough, love is not enough, just believing is not enough (the devil belives) but having these things combined = FAITH. So you are both right if you put your arguments togther belief AND works = FAITH.

[horndogrob]

@hsarvis62 Jesus never said "I am baptized to identify with you." Matthew 3:15 Jesus says it is to "fulfill all righteousness." The next two versus show the Holy Spirit and God the Father as completely separate from Jesus. I don't know how you can hang on to your creed of Jesus = God in the face of so plain a scripture. Or all the like where Jesus kneels down in prayer to communicate with his Father in heaven.

[hsarvis62]

Wow - I am very sad for Bruce McConkie and those who believe his teaching. It is clear from Paul's teachings - Ephesians 2:8-9 - that we are saved by Grace (God's gift) and not by works. Paul also said in Galatians 2:20 that if we could have earned salvation through the law, then Christ died needlessly.

[princessjenny01]

You are missing the point. Yes, it is true that we cannot be saved just by acts alone. We need the atonement. However, it is not enough just to believe that we are saved because Christ died for us. So, you murder your whole family, but you believe Christ died for you, so your saved? NO! It doesn't work that way.

[hsarvis62]

While I am in agreement that true faith does result in a changed life and spiritual fruit (this is what I believe James was saying in James 2), the basis of our salvation is solely on Christ's death on the Cross. Examples of this would be the thief on the Cross and Paul himself. Paul was admittedly a persecutor and murderer of Christians yet he was saved by faith and faith alone. Again, I go back to Ephesians 2:8-9 - we saved by grace and not by works, that no man should boast.

[princessjenny01]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I believe the scripture you reference is saying something different. Believing he died for us is indeed the gateway to our salvation. You still have to try to be a good person in life or what is the point in believing?

[princessjenny01]

What about these scriptures?

James 2:17

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

James 2:24

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

James 2:26

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

How do you show your faith? By your works.

[hsarvis62]

First, I have appreciated the opportunity to discuss this with you. With regard to the verses from James 2, one needs to look at the context - James is arguing that the evidence of one's faith is that results in good deeds. I totally agree with this - an understanding of the gospel - that we are totally forgiven by Jesus - should result in a transformed life. But there is a huge difference between that and saying that I need to perform good works in order to maintain/earn my salvation.

[princessjenny01]

Again, without Jesus Christ we cannot be saved. However, to show your true faith and devotion to him you must live righteously. Then why have commandments? Man is not perfect therefore we must do all we can every day to be a good person and be like Jesus. He did his part by dying and being resurrected and now we must do our part by believing in him and living like him.

[omiolo]

"a Spirit essence called the Trinity"

this talk is incredible!