1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation,
so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Ignatius of Antioch "Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again." (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).
His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally—and correctly. He again repeated his words: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).
"’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
When Christ said to eat His body and drink His blood He was speaking figuratively, not literally. The Book of John also says "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Does this mean we need to be pushed out of our mother's womb again? Of course not. That would be impossible. Christ offered His body and blood on the cross for us. He wants us to accept His body and blood sacrifice for the atonement of our sins.
...This proves that when Jesus said "take eat & drink" he LITERALLY gave them bread and juice. In like manner, Paul also refers to the elements of the Lord's Supper as "eat this bread and drink the cup" in 1 Cor 11:26 after they should be transubstantiated.
Transubstantiation is a false doctrine because Jesus is not a liar: In Mt 26:29 after Jesus had said, "this is my blood" and prayed, he still referred to the contents as, "fruit of the vine". If transubstantiation of the juice into blood had occurred, as both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches say it was at this time, then Jesus would never have referred to it as "fruit of the vine' but rather "blood".
The very record of history, (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian and Hippolytus) which the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches love to quote as authority, proves that before 200 AD, the church viewed the bread and juice as symbols. Conversely, the earliest historical hint of transubstantiation was in the 4th century.
1 Corinthians 10:3,4 "All ate the same SPIRITUAL food, and all drank the same SPIRITUAL drink. For they drank of that SPIRITUAL Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." It doesn't get much easier to understand than that.
Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12:"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
@kiwichristian2009 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural.
Jesus,after saying "this is my blood" in Matthew26:28 also sait "I will not drink henceforth of this FRUIT OF THE VINE" in Matthew26:29, showing that the grapejuice was STILL wine and had NOT been changed into blood.
instead of fixing the currupt church martin luther himself had his own believe in faith ( jesus gave us written and unwriiten or the word the way that spoken to the mouth of the apostles that how can we be closer jesus, and shared by western and eastern churches, i believe we're the body of jesus. he gave an authority to peter as the leader of his church on earth. that will lead to him and that is the holy catholic and apostolic church the one and true church of jesus...
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
@kiwichristian2009 Of course His one and only sacrifice was sufficient. The Mass isn't a "different" or "repeated" sacrifice that "adds" anything. It's the SAME sacrifice, eternal. Christ Himself said "Eat, this bread is My Body, drink, this cup contains my blood. DO THIS IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME. That is what we do. That is what every early Council of the Church said to do. That is what great theologians and the saints said to do and DID.
@lichtbroeder The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?
@lichtbroeder Heb.7:27 Who needeth NOT daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself.
There are so many verses in scripture that contradict RCC theology Rom 4:5 utterly condemns the System of salvation by masses penance priests etc, bible teaches that salvation is gift of God not of works & this gift is freely given by God to those who trust in the merits of Christ's finished work on Calvary, the RCC SYSTEM is a demonic counterfeit to keep the lost RCs on the broad road to hell
@kiwichristian2009 Amen friend! Truth or lies......God's way versus man's ways (religion). Satan's counterfeit deceptions are found all over the world and throughout time. Roman Catholicism, one of Satan's best efforts has lead many away from the truth and simplicity in Christ's plan.
@johnthreesixteen316 Speaking of authority of the rcc. St. Philomena was made a saint by leo XII and pope gregory XVI blessed one of her images. Rome later admitted that she NEVER EXISTED and in 1961 struck her off the list of saints!
@kiwichristian2009 Before the Reformation, Scripture was used to explain the teachings of the Church. Reformers CHANGED the historic and undivided meaning of much of this. Funny how your "faith" is 90% bashing and criticizing Roman Catholics. A sad, insecure person you are. Even have to have "christian" in your on line name so there will be no doubt, LOL.
@kiwichristian2009 Prattle on as you wish. I looked at you You Tube channel and you've seemingly devoted your life to Catholic bashing. Have come across people like you before. Your "faith" is based on hate and self righteousness. When people respond to your bashing with logical statements or arguments, you don't answer because you can't. You just post new comments. Quote Scripture and "spin" it all you want. You think that Satan wouldn't whisper in YOUR ear? That you speak for God! LOL.
@lichtbroeder I do not "bash" catholics, my friend. I do have a strong love for them, yes. I reprove and rebuke false teachings, but i never bash anyone.
To craventref - catholic means "Christian" not "Roman Catholic" in the Apostle's Creed. But it is unfortunate that when studying in confirmation class the Roman Catholic's do not break down what the Apostle's Creed actually means. Look up catholic in the dictionary and you will see it does not mean just "Roman Catholic".
@kiwichristian2009 Until the Reformation, there were only CHRISTIANS. After the Reformation, Christians in Europe referred to themselves as Roman Catholics, and Protestants. Show me PROTESTANTS in the Bible. Your Christian ancestors were at one point, Roman Catholics. They lived and died for their faith as it was bequeathed to them by the early fathers of the Church and by the saints. I'll take the council of the Apostles and the saints over your opinions any day.
@lichtbroeder So, rather than transfer the question and divert attention away from it, you are confirming that the apostles NEVER referred to themselves as "catholics", correct?
@kiwichristian2009 Hey, kiwi, you place all authority in the Bible, right? Jesus and the first Christians didn't HAVE "Bibles". Were they without authority? Clearly not. Until the Reformation, authority for Christians was found in scared tradition, sacred custom, and Scripture. Luther had some good ideas, but he threw the baby out with the bath water.
@liebschen851 "catholic" means "universal". "Roman" refers to it's ties to the See of St. Peter in Rome. And for kiwichristian's benefit, the Bible also doesn't mention Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, or any of the other names that ALL Cristian groups use as well as "Christian".
@craventref Wrong. The Roman Catholic Church was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.
@craventref Hello friend. The true church of Jesus Christ is a relationship, not a membership. It isn’t any particular protestant denomination or Roman catholic. It doesn't have a roof or an address. We are the Body of Christ, past, present and future from all around the world who have accepted Christ’s work on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, once and for all. Our names have been written in the Book of Life from the beginning. 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
i find it really interesting how close this is to the holy mass in the catholic church. As a roman catholic, i am surprised that there are members of the protestant church who hold close to their beliefs the presence of jesus christ in the holy eucharist. What christian denomination is this?
@mleonetti1991 They are Lutherans. Lutherans kept the Mass, albeit Luther's version of it. Anglicans have the Mass. Both believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist in the guise of bread and wine - that those things become His body and blood, are not just symbols, as Christ and His Church have taught from the beginning.
All my comments below are addressed to kiwichristian2009 and his many anti-Catholic ones. I came here out of an interest in Lutherism, not to be anti anything. Constructive criticism is fine with me. Catholic bashing (like saying that "the RCC is satanic") is not, and smacks of fanaticism. Good DID come from the Reformation. Even Catholics agree. But when you say "Scripture alone", you negate that God speaks to us in many ways, as He did to His Church which existed before the Bible did.
The RCC is the mother Church of all Christians in the west. Your Christian ancestors lived and died for it, and she kept the faith alive for centuries. Some faults were correctly pointed out by reformers, but the Reformation went far beyond reform, and that spirit which lead reformers to question the interpretation of Scripture is now ironically set in stone. The Bible isn't the Word. It's a record OF the Word - made clear by Christ's Church on earth as Christ intended. He founded a CHURCH.
@kiwichristian2009 That "whore" gave us the Bible, which didn't exist AS the Bible until the Church assembled and approved books of Scripture as such. Before the Reformation, Scripture was used for centuries to explain the papacy, seven sacraments, veneration (not worship) of Mary and the saints, the Real Presence, etc. During the Reformation, reformers decided to give "different" meanings to related Scriptural passages, and then declare that "the meaning of Scripture never changes!" Right.
@lichtbroeder Rubbish. It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.
You say that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. I agree. But you also say that it is not through any church. I disagree. The historical Jesus and His teachings are not revealed to us spontaneously in our heads. They are revealed through His Church, which gave us the Bible and traditions that embody Christ and His message. When you get your first car, you don't read a manual and drive on your own. You rely on the people that assembled the manual and follow their understanding of it.
All humans are sinful, including Protestants, and some Protestants have unleashed horrors on fellow humans too. You call the RRC "satanic". What rubbish. Child abuse, spouse abuse, theft, even murder, have been committed by Protestant clergy, and their scandals have been covered up or explained away. For every disgruntled ex RC priest or nun that you find, I can find a disgruntled ex-Lutheran or Baptist who will likewise impune their former faith.
@lichtbroeder In 2001, while he was a cardinal, the pope issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety. The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.
@lichtbroeder The main problem here is that the roman catholic "church" is the only organization that has offered peverts of every stripe and pedophiles in particular a career, protection and access to children. Over time this has led to more and more perverts being attracted to the Church.
@lichtbroeder The rcc DENY Jesus died ONCE for ALL.They DENY Jesus is our ONLY salvation.They DENY Jesus did away with the needs for priests.They DENY God forgives us of ALL sin.They DENY only God can forgive sins against God.They DENY we must worship God and God alone.They DENY God when He says "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God". Now, who would want to deceive people? God, or satan?
@lichtbroeder “Through some crack or other in the temple of God, the smoke of Satan has entered .” — Pope Paul VI, 1972. Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are all of pagan origin..." (Page 359).
The liturgy in this video is nice, and vestments are worn. Why? Because they are "catholic", not "Roman Catholic". You are able in this instance to see beyond medieval "abuse" and claim these as aspects of Christian heritage. Yet Scripture, your only source of authority, says nothing about wearing vestments. Sacred Tradition and custom do. Why not then look at other things in the same light, like honoring (not worshiping) Mary and the saints as members of a family with Christ at the center?
Catholics do not equate the Pope with Christ. The Pope is a "vicar" - he represents Christ in His physical Church on earth. He is not seen AS Christ or worshiped - Jesus Christ is. And he is believed to be infallible only in matters of faith and doctrine, meaning that GOD is with His Church and protects these things. The Reformation went - in Luther's own opinion - too far, though he eventually acquiesced.
Some Protestants like to quote Matt. 23:9 - where Jesus says, "call no man father." They use this to prove that it is wrong to call clergy "father." By this, Jesus discouraged His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees with the titles of "fathers" and "rabbis" because they were hypocrites, and He warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. Yet all Christians call their fathers, what? FATHER. Meaning often goes beyond the literal word of Scripture.
Unless you unite the Bible to Sacred Tradition and custom, your source of authority is incomplete. Or do you say that God can work only through the written word, and not through these other things which preceded it? Oral tradition and custom evolved under the guidance of the Spirit as much as the written word did. The was the case from the time of the apostles.
When Christ said to eat His body and drink His blood He was speaking figuratively, not literally. The Book of John also says "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Does this mean we need to be pushed out of our mother's womb again? Of course not. That would be impossible. Christ offered His body and blood on the cross for us. He wants us to accept His body and blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins.
Christ did say "this is my body which shall be given up for you." Nobody disputes this. But the reality is that they nailed Him to the cross, not a loaf of bread. So, obviously Christ was speaking figuratively or symbolically. A loaf of bread would hardly be a worthy sacrifice for our sins.
Christ is not present in the eucharist. He died once and for all 2000 years ago. Christ said "it is finished." Hebrews....."So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. . . ."
@kiwichristian2009 Just like you, I love catholics. That is why we are out here trying to lead them to Christ. Even if we reach the heart of just one catholic, all of our typing is worth it!
@kiwichristian2009 Not only that, Catholicism is the one true, holy, and apostolic church. Any others history can prove broke away. This is not even a Catholic mass though. We do not crucify Christ in the mass. Please be sure you know what a Catholic mass is before you speak of Catholics in such a disrespectful manner.
Thanks for repeating what you said in previous posts. Now what is so unbiblical. Hey do you know where you get your bible from? The Catholic Chuch decided which books to put in the Canon. The Holy Bible did not fall out from the sky.
The Church existed before the Bible did. The 1st Christians had no Bible, but had they did have sacred tradition and custom. The Church gathered and approved books, making the Bible. Before the Reformation, priestly celibacy, the real presence, the papacy, the honoring of saints, etc. were justified with Scripture. Luther, as a young priest, did this too. Then the Reformation - and people used Scripture to say just the opposite. May we grow and come together.
@lichtbroeder I agree the church existed before the Bible did. I challenge you to show me scriptual proof of " priestly celibacy, the real presence, the papacy, the honoring of saints, etc.".
Here are some sources for celibacy: Matt 19: 11-12, 19:29, 22:30, and 1 Cor 7:7, 7:27, 7:32-33,38 Google any of the other topics for other references. If you agree that the Church existed before the Bible, why is the Bible the only authority for you, and not the Church that authorized it? Jesus said not one thing about a Bible. You can explain Scripture as you wish. I'll go with the earliest explanations that come from the Fathers and the saints.
@lichtbroeder Matt.19, i believe indicates that ALL can receive The Word, jews AND gentiles. It does not exalt eunuchs above others. 29, good point, i will need to think on this one. 30, i see NOTHING about celebacy there. God says a leader of a church should be married with one wife. The Church is Jesus Christ, not some organisation.
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?
@kiwichristian2009 You mention all kinds of things that Catholics do and believe, which you say cannot be connected to Scripture. If Scripture is the Word of God, then All of it is. Yet NO Christians follow it to the letter. Christians ignore some plainly stated injunctions and follow others based on understanding, as what Scripture says or doesn't say is pointless unless read with the gift of discernment. This was given to the Church, which came BEFORE the Bible.
The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. I do know what mass is. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?
@santosst18 The RCC is not the true church.......that is why it is called the ROMAN catholic church. It fell away from the true church when it went to bed with Roman Paganism.
@johnthreesixteen316 Actually it is called the Roman Church, because it was located out of Rome, You know, where Peter was the first bishop of Rome. Any person who know history knows that the Catholic church is the first form of Christianity, and that we are the true church.
@santosst18 If you do your biblical homework you will see that Peter was never in Rome, only Paul and Luke. Christ sent Peter to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. Look up this name......Simon Magus. He may be the 'bishop' you are talking about.
Traditions states that Peter went to Rome and was its first bishop. Simon Magus is a heathen gnostic. He is not a true Christian. By the way, before you retreat to sola scriptura, where did the Bible come from? Did it just fall from the sky, who determined what books are in it? Oh yeah, the Church did that, and oh yeah, Martin Luther took out the books that he did not like.
@santosst18 Tradition states that various men have claimed to be God. Does this make it true? "Tradition" only means something that has been believed in or done for a long time.
@santosst18 So, even though you have NO physical of biblical evidence for peter going to rome, just because it is something your church has believed for a long time, that makes it true?
Actually any person who knows history knows that the oldest church split and created the Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church. Correction it is called the Roman Church becasue the bishop of Rome(Pope) declared supremacy over all Christians.
This is an unusual congregation with an unusual liturgy. The Choir and Band behind the Altar . The Priest and Deacon say the Words of Consecration alternately! The hymns sound lively and happy. Which Christian denomination is this?
Ok with your comments I have actually been to my local Catholic church- I would like to learn more- Maybe rather than talk down to me, maybe help on a Christian level. As for your comments RE C of E- Can I help being Christened in one when I was so young and did not know the difference- is that my Fault?
@oxfordpj21 My friend. You are right. It was not your fault, you were brought up in a particular way. Now you are old enough to question things, which is fantastic. Remember, your final authority should be the Word Of God, not the pope, not the queen, but the Bible.
@Imaginefree69 Thats because you do not know what you are talking about. No, catholics practise the mass, true biblical Christians realize when God is speaking symbolically. Please show me two contradictory passages and i would be happy to try and help you. Remember that Jesus Christ fulfilled and replaced the OT laws with a new covenant.
@Imaginefree69 true christians pfft were all hypocrites, were forgiven not purified, ofcourse im better off being forgiven than being the hedonist i once was
@Mccarthur1 Of course "true christians" are purified. According to the Bible, that is. You don't often see it in practice. "whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, nor known him. .. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU. He that commmitteth sin is of the devil. Whosoever is born of God, COMMITTETH NOT SIN: for his seed abideth in him, and he CAN NOT SIN, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:6-9 Met any sinless Xians lately? Neither have I.
@Imaginefree69 Hello friend. You are missing the point. As believers God will forget our sins. All of our transgressions are washed away by His blood.
@johnthreesixteen316 Nonsense. Right to the end of the Bible it is clear that your ACTIONS are far more important than your beliefs, and that evil actions simply demonstrate evil beliefs. Righteousness requires righteous ACTIONS: "whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, nor known him. .. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU. He that commmitteth sin is of the devil. Whosoever is born of God, COMMITTETH NOT SIN: for his seed abideth in him, and he CAN NOT SIN, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:6-9
@kiwichristian2009 Contradictions? Here are a few easy ones: Genesis 1 and 2 give contrary sequences of creation. Who prompted David to take a census, God or Satan? Did Judas or did priests purchase Potter's field? How did Judas die? Did Jesus suck on a sponge while being crucified? Which of several choices were Jesus' last words? Who visited the tomb Easter morning? Who was Jesus' putative paternal grandpa? Heli or Jacob? How does one day and two nights become "three days and three nights"?
@kiwichristian2009 Hello friend. Some people don't want to abide in truth. This is another example of someone who loves to argue and waste people's time.
@Imaginefree69 When you say "Christians", who or what are you referring to? Define "Christian". Are catholics' Christian? Are mormons? Do you class them all the same?
1 Tim 4: 1-2: The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times some will desert the faith and pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils.
1 Tim 6: 3-4: Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion, is proud and has no understanding.
i JUST cant believe how evil and wrong the Catholic faith is. I find it hard to believe that Jesus would not love us all equally based on how we live not what we do in private life, wether we are man or woman. There should be one church, one god, one bread. You may judge C of E but at least we accept all as the body and all created in God.
Learn your scripture and history. If the Catholic Church is evil and wrong then Christ is a liar. Or insane. Remember His promise to Peter that He will build His Church on Peter, the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it, and He will be with IT for ALL TIME. Now show me where He made that promise to King Henry V111?? The C of E is a branch sep from the Church of Christ-historical fact! So save your ranting, learn your history and scripture, and return to the Church founded by Christ.
So because I worship in C of E Church I will not be as blessed? or do we do things wrong in our Church- We have exactly the same Mass format and Prayers
I cannot say who is blessed or not, but I can tell you that your 'Mass' is not the same as the Catholic Mass. Reasons: The C of E is sep from Rome, therefore you lack episcopal orders which means you have no ordained priests. When a CE pastor reverts to Catholicism he has to be ordained. No Ordinations = no consecration. You have theatre, no Christ's Real Presence. I dont doubt your faith but it is misplaced. Come back to the Church of Christ, 2000 yrs of Tradition and guidance from the H.Spirit
@Raven0065 JESUS is the rock, not peter. peter was married, was called "satan" by jesus, was rebuked by paul, was never in rome. wake up."For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,which is Jesus Christ."1 Corinthians 3:11 Jesus, NOT peter. "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4
@Raven0065 The Roman Catholic Church claims that Peter is the rock that the church is built on. They say that Peter is the first Pope who stands in the place of Christ. This position is known as the Vicar of Christ. This is the lineage through which the present Pope receives his authority. Today, the Pope is still the rock that the Roman Catholic Church is built on. The Roman Catholic Church declares. ...
@Raven0065 ...that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff [Pope]. (Pope Boniface VIII, 1302 AD in an ex cathedra in his Bull Unum Sanctum). Pope Pius IX said about himself, I am the way, the truth, and the life. By the office of the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church denies Jesus his rightful place as the foundation of the true church.
@Raven0065 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner," 1 Peter 2:6-7,
oxford, you are also confusing love of person and love of action. Christ always loved the person BUT he did command people to repent and bring their ways into the way of God. God loves you, even if you are gay, but He does not accept your homosexual practices. I am a married man, but God does not condone or accept my behaviour if I have an affair. Take up your cross, Jesus said, not get comfortable with your self-indulgence. Tough message, but the road is narrow...
Oxford also says "I find it hard to believe that Jesus would not love us all equally based on how we live not what we do in private life, wether we are man or woman". How can you compartmentalise your life into private and public and believe that they can be contradictory and still valid? So if I go to mass weekly and help people out that means God should butt out of my desire to masturbate, look at porn, sell drugs or cheat on my wife?? Grow up. We are IN the world, but not OF the world.
@oxfordpj21 I know. It is VERy hard to believe how sinful and satanic the rcc is. When i hear the testimonies of ex-catholic nuns and priests i am shocked. please watch this video on youtube watch?v=a6yDuxzjpxE&feature=PlayList&p=7CD7EB361142F719&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9
so Fr JCsc is the Catholic the only Church that is 'right' in terms of your comments, I would like to say- there are more gay men in the Catholic Church who preach at the altar how wrong it is to be gay- but at least the C of E accepts woman etc..... do you think Jesus would deny someone to serve him on the basis of being man or woman or gay or straight-???? The Catholic church is the biggest reason why the Church has gone wrong!!!!!!! Jesus loves ALL
How can you believe in Christ but say people or a church does not count just because it is Catholic??? You harbour the many paedophiles and closet gays- you mess with the Bible to suit your horrid faith and views. The C of E is good- its loves woman equally just as Christ did- how can you say whats right and wrong when you are not Jesus- No wonder the Catholic Church is dying out
@santosst18 prove it. BTW, what do you think of the police investigating your pope? Praise God! I pray Gods' will will be done to the horrible crimes the rcc has committed.
A lovely celebration of the Eucharist.
EstateManor 7 months ago
Protestants crossing themselves? Looks stupid
NixonisLord 7 months ago
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
AlexzandrSpringvale 1 year ago
Justin Martyr
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation,
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
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Pilatocus28 1 year ago
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Pilatocus28 1 year ago
Ignatius of Antioch "Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again." (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally—and correctly. He again repeated his words: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
Clement of Alexandria
"’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
Irenaeus
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
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Pilatocus28 1 year ago
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Pilatocus28 1 year ago
When Christ said to eat His body and drink His blood He was speaking figuratively, not literally. The Book of John also says "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Does this mean we need to be pushed out of our mother's womb again? Of course not. That would be impossible. Christ offered His body and blood on the cross for us. He wants us to accept His body and blood sacrifice for the atonement of our sins.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
...This proves that when Jesus said "take eat & drink" he LITERALLY gave them bread and juice. In like manner, Paul also refers to the elements of the Lord's Supper as "eat this bread and drink the cup" in 1 Cor 11:26 after they should be transubstantiated.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Transubstantiation is a false doctrine because Jesus is not a liar: In Mt 26:29 after Jesus had said, "this is my blood" and prayed, he still referred to the contents as, "fruit of the vine". If transubstantiation of the juice into blood had occurred, as both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches say it was at this time, then Jesus would never have referred to it as "fruit of the vine' but rather "blood".
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
The very record of history, (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian and Hippolytus) which the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches love to quote as authority, proves that before 200 AD, the church viewed the bread and juice as symbols. Conversely, the earliest historical hint of transubstantiation was in the 4th century.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
1 Corinthians 10:3,4 "All ate the same SPIRITUAL food, and all drank the same SPIRITUAL drink. For they drank of that SPIRITUAL Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." It doesn't get much easier to understand than that.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12:"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Jesus,after saying "this is my blood" in Matthew26:28 also sait "I will not drink henceforth of this FRUIT OF THE VINE" in Matthew26:29, showing that the grapejuice was STILL wine and had NOT been changed into blood.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
instead of fixing the currupt church martin luther himself had his own believe in faith ( jesus gave us written and unwriiten or the word the way that spoken to the mouth of the apostles that how can we be closer jesus, and shared by western and eastern churches, i believe we're the body of jesus. he gave an authority to peter as the leader of his church on earth. that will lead to him and that is the holy catholic and apostolic church the one and true church of jesus...
craventref 1 year ago
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Of course His one and only sacrifice was sufficient. The Mass isn't a "different" or "repeated" sacrifice that "adds" anything. It's the SAME sacrifice, eternal. Christ Himself said "Eat, this bread is My Body, drink, this cup contains my blood. DO THIS IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME. That is what we do. That is what every early Council of the Church said to do. That is what great theologians and the saints said to do and DID.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder Heb.7:27 Who needeth NOT daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
There are so many verses in scripture that contradict RCC theology Rom 4:5 utterly condemns the System of salvation by masses penance priests etc, bible teaches that salvation is gift of God not of works & this gift is freely given by God to those who trust in the merits of Christ's finished work on Calvary, the RCC SYSTEM is a demonic counterfeit to keep the lost RCs on the broad road to hell
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Amen friend! Truth or lies......God's way versus man's ways (religion). Satan's counterfeit deceptions are found all over the world and throughout time. Roman Catholicism, one of Satan's best efforts has lead many away from the truth and simplicity in Christ's plan.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
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@johnthreesixteen316 Speaking of authority of the rcc. St. Philomena was made a saint by leo XII and pope gregory XVI blessed one of her images. Rome later admitted that she NEVER EXISTED and in 1961 struck her off the list of saints!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Before the Reformation, Scripture was used to explain the teachings of the Church. Reformers CHANGED the historic and undivided meaning of much of this. Funny how your "faith" is 90% bashing and criticizing Roman Catholics. A sad, insecure person you are. Even have to have "christian" in your on line name so there will be no doubt, LOL.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Prattle on as you wish. I looked at you You Tube channel and you've seemingly devoted your life to Catholic bashing. Have come across people like you before. Your "faith" is based on hate and self righteousness. When people respond to your bashing with logical statements or arguments, you don't answer because you can't. You just post new comments. Quote Scripture and "spin" it all you want. You think that Satan wouldn't whisper in YOUR ear? That you speak for God! LOL.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder I do not "bash" catholics, my friend. I do have a strong love for them, yes. I reprove and rebuke false teachings, but i never bash anyone.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
To craventref - catholic means "Christian" not "Roman Catholic" in the Apostle's Creed. But it is unfortunate that when studying in confirmation class the Roman Catholic's do not break down what the Apostle's Creed actually means. Look up catholic in the dictionary and you will see it does not mean just "Roman Catholic".
liebschen851 1 year ago
@liebschen851 Wrong. Show me "catholic" in the Bible, then show me "Christian", please.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Until the Reformation, there were only CHRISTIANS. After the Reformation, Christians in Europe referred to themselves as Roman Catholics, and Protestants. Show me PROTESTANTS in the Bible. Your Christian ancestors were at one point, Roman Catholics. They lived and died for their faith as it was bequeathed to them by the early fathers of the Church and by the saints. I'll take the council of the Apostles and the saints over your opinions any day.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder So, rather than transfer the question and divert attention away from it, you are confirming that the apostles NEVER referred to themselves as "catholics", correct?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Hey, kiwi, you place all authority in the Bible, right? Jesus and the first Christians didn't HAVE "Bibles". Were they without authority? Clearly not. Until the Reformation, authority for Christians was found in scared tradition, sacred custom, and Scripture. Luther had some good ideas, but he threw the baby out with the bath water.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@liebschen851 we are called the catholic to distinguished or selves from protestantism but christian...
craventref 1 year ago
@liebschen851 "catholic" means "universal". "Roman" refers to it's ties to the See of St. Peter in Rome. And for kiwichristian's benefit, the Bible also doesn't mention Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, or any of the other names that ALL Cristian groups use as well as "Christian".
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
protestant think they're the true church but they're not, jesus himself built the holy catholic and apostrolic church, NOT A PROTESTANT CHURCH!!
craventref 1 year ago
@craventref Wrong. The Roman Catholic Church was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@craventref Hello friend. The true church of Jesus Christ is a relationship, not a membership. It isn’t any particular protestant denomination or Roman catholic. It doesn't have a roof or an address. We are the Body of Christ, past, present and future from all around the world who have accepted Christ’s work on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, once and for all. Our names have been written in the Book of Life from the beginning. 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
i find it really interesting how close this is to the holy mass in the catholic church. As a roman catholic, i am surprised that there are members of the protestant church who hold close to their beliefs the presence of jesus christ in the holy eucharist. What christian denomination is this?
mleonetti1991 1 year ago
@mleonetti1991 I can't tell but I am guessing Anglican.
AnotherAppleMacbook 1 year ago
@mleonetti1991 They are Lutherans. Lutherans kept the Mass, albeit Luther's version of it. Anglicans have the Mass. Both believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist in the guise of bread and wine - that those things become His body and blood, are not just symbols, as Christ and His Church have taught from the beginning.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
All my comments below are addressed to kiwichristian2009 and his many anti-Catholic ones. I came here out of an interest in Lutherism, not to be anti anything. Constructive criticism is fine with me. Catholic bashing (like saying that "the RCC is satanic") is not, and smacks of fanaticism. Good DID come from the Reformation. Even Catholics agree. But when you say "Scripture alone", you negate that God speaks to us in many ways, as He did to His Church which existed before the Bible did.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
The RCC is the mother Church of all Christians in the west. Your Christian ancestors lived and died for it, and she kept the faith alive for centuries. Some faults were correctly pointed out by reformers, but the Reformation went far beyond reform, and that spirit which lead reformers to question the interpretation of Scripture is now ironically set in stone. The Bible isn't the Word. It's a record OF the Word - made clear by Christ's Church on earth as Christ intended. He founded a CHURCH.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder Rubbish. The rcc is whore of babylon. This is clearly proven in the Bible and in history.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 That "whore" gave us the Bible, which didn't exist AS the Bible until the Church assembled and approved books of Scripture as such. Before the Reformation, Scripture was used for centuries to explain the papacy, seven sacraments, veneration (not worship) of Mary and the saints, the Real Presence, etc. During the Reformation, reformers decided to give "different" meanings to related Scriptural passages, and then declare that "the meaning of Scripture never changes!" Right.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder Rubbish. It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder The rcc mearly dictated what IT would use as "the bible".
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder How come then, that in the Bible, believers are called Christians, and not "catholics"?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
You say that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. I agree. But you also say that it is not through any church. I disagree. The historical Jesus and His teachings are not revealed to us spontaneously in our heads. They are revealed through His Church, which gave us the Bible and traditions that embody Christ and His message. When you get your first car, you don't read a manual and drive on your own. You rely on the people that assembled the manual and follow their understanding of it.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
All humans are sinful, including Protestants, and some Protestants have unleashed horrors on fellow humans too. You call the RRC "satanic". What rubbish. Child abuse, spouse abuse, theft, even murder, have been committed by Protestant clergy, and their scandals have been covered up or explained away. For every disgruntled ex RC priest or nun that you find, I can find a disgruntled ex-Lutheran or Baptist who will likewise impune their former faith.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder In 2001, while he was a cardinal, the pope issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety. The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder The main problem here is that the roman catholic "church" is the only organization that has offered peverts of every stripe and pedophiles in particular a career, protection and access to children. Over time this has led to more and more perverts being attracted to the Church.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder The rcc DENY Jesus died ONCE for ALL.They DENY Jesus is our ONLY salvation.They DENY Jesus did away with the needs for priests.They DENY God forgives us of ALL sin.They DENY only God can forgive sins against God.They DENY we must worship God and God alone.They DENY God when He says "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God". Now, who would want to deceive people? God, or satan?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
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@lichtbroeder “Through some crack or other in the temple of God, the smoke of Satan has entered .” — Pope Paul VI, 1972. Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are all of pagan origin..." (Page 359).
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
The liturgy in this video is nice, and vestments are worn. Why? Because they are "catholic", not "Roman Catholic". You are able in this instance to see beyond medieval "abuse" and claim these as aspects of Christian heritage. Yet Scripture, your only source of authority, says nothing about wearing vestments. Sacred Tradition and custom do. Why not then look at other things in the same light, like honoring (not worshiping) Mary and the saints as members of a family with Christ at the center?
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
Catholics do not equate the Pope with Christ. The Pope is a "vicar" - he represents Christ in His physical Church on earth. He is not seen AS Christ or worshiped - Jesus Christ is. And he is believed to be infallible only in matters of faith and doctrine, meaning that GOD is with His Church and protects these things. The Reformation went - in Luther's own opinion - too far, though he eventually acquiesced.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
Some Protestants like to quote Matt. 23:9 - where Jesus says, "call no man father." They use this to prove that it is wrong to call clergy "father." By this, Jesus discouraged His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees with the titles of "fathers" and "rabbis" because they were hypocrites, and He warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. Yet all Christians call their fathers, what? FATHER. Meaning often goes beyond the literal word of Scripture.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
Unless you unite the Bible to Sacred Tradition and custom, your source of authority is incomplete. Or do you say that God can work only through the written word, and not through these other things which preceded it? Oral tradition and custom evolved under the guidance of the Spirit as much as the written word did. The was the case from the time of the apostles.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
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When Christ said to eat His body and drink His blood He was speaking figuratively, not literally. The Book of John also says "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Does this mean we need to be pushed out of our mother's womb again? Of course not. That would be impossible. Christ offered His body and blood on the cross for us. He wants us to accept His body and blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins.
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
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Christ did say "this is my body which shall be given up for you." Nobody disputes this. But the reality is that they nailed Him to the cross, not a loaf of bread. So, obviously Christ was speaking figuratively or symbolically. A loaf of bread would hardly be a worthy sacrifice for our sins.
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
Christ is not present in the eucharist. He died once and for all 2000 years ago. Christ said "it is finished." Hebrews....."So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. . . ."
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
"Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Mark 7:7
Utter blasphemy, as is the entire catholic "church".
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@kiwichristian2009 I'd say the 'doctrines of devils'.
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago 2
@johnthreesixteen316. True. But i hope people dont think we hate catholics. We hate false religion.
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@kiwichristian2009 Just like you, I love catholics. That is why we are out here trying to lead them to Christ. Even if we reach the heart of just one catholic, all of our typing is worth it!
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
Amen! I didnt mean to put words into your mouth, but i can tell we share a similar goal, to free catholics from their false religion.
We must use only the Word of God, not the Word of Man thats what got them into trouble in the first place! :)
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@kiwichristian2009 Not only that, Catholicism is the one true, holy, and apostolic church. Any others history can prove broke away. This is not even a Catholic mass though. We do not crucify Christ in the mass. Please be sure you know what a Catholic mass is before you speak of Catholics in such a disrespectful manner.
santosst18 2 years ago
Rubbish. It is completely unbiblical.
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
Thanks for repeating what you said in previous posts. Now what is so unbiblical. Hey do you know where you get your bible from? The Catholic Chuch decided which books to put in the Canon. The Holy Bible did not fall out from the sky.
santosst18 2 years ago
If the Bible is a Catholic book,
1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@kiwichristian2009
The Church existed before the Bible did. The 1st Christians had no Bible, but had they did have sacred tradition and custom. The Church gathered and approved books, making the Bible. Before the Reformation, priestly celibacy, the real presence, the papacy, the honoring of saints, etc. were justified with Scripture. Luther, as a young priest, did this too. Then the Reformation - and people used Scripture to say just the opposite. May we grow and come together.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder I agree the church existed before the Bible did. I challenge you to show me scriptual proof of " priestly celibacy, the real presence, the papacy, the honoring of saints, etc.".
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Here are some sources for celibacy: Matt 19: 11-12, 19:29, 22:30, and 1 Cor 7:7, 7:27, 7:32-33,38 Google any of the other topics for other references. If you agree that the Church existed before the Bible, why is the Bible the only authority for you, and not the Church that authorized it? Jesus said not one thing about a Bible. You can explain Scripture as you wish. I'll go with the earliest explanations that come from the Fathers and the saints.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
@lichtbroeder Matt.19, i believe indicates that ALL can receive The Word, jews AND gentiles. It does not exalt eunuchs above others. 29, good point, i will need to think on this one. 30, i see NOTHING about celebacy there. God says a leader of a church should be married with one wife. The Church is Jesus Christ, not some organisation.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
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kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
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kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@kiwichristian2009 You mention all kinds of things that Catholics do and believe, which you say cannot be connected to Scripture. If Scripture is the Word of God, then All of it is. Yet NO Christians follow it to the letter. Christians ignore some plainly stated injunctions and follow others based on understanding, as what Scripture says or doesn't say is pointless unless read with the gift of discernment. This was given to the Church, which came BEFORE the Bible.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
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The mass is a re-sacrificing of Christ. I do know what mass is. "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367). What does the Catechism mean here?
kiwichristian2009 2 years ago
@santosst18 The RCC is not the true church.......that is why it is called the ROMAN catholic church. It fell away from the true church when it went to bed with Roman Paganism.
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Actually it is called the Roman Church, because it was located out of Rome, You know, where Peter was the first bishop of Rome. Any person who know history knows that the Catholic church is the first form of Christianity, and that we are the true church.
santosst18 2 years ago
@santosst18 If you do your biblical homework you will see that Peter was never in Rome, only Paul and Luke. Christ sent Peter to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. Look up this name......Simon Magus. He may be the 'bishop' you are talking about.
johnthreesixteen316 2 years ago
Traditions states that Peter went to Rome and was its first bishop. Simon Magus is a heathen gnostic. He is not a true Christian. By the way, before you retreat to sola scriptura, where did the Bible come from? Did it just fall from the sky, who determined what books are in it? Oh yeah, the Church did that, and oh yeah, Martin Luther took out the books that he did not like.
santosst18 2 years ago
@santosst18 Tradition states that various men have claimed to be God. Does this make it true? "Tradition" only means something that has been believed in or done for a long time.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@santosst18 So, even though you have NO physical of biblical evidence for peter going to rome, just because it is something your church has believed for a long time, that makes it true?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Actually any person who knows history knows that the oldest church split and created the Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church. Correction it is called the Roman Church becasue the bishop of Rome(Pope) declared supremacy over all Christians.
bradensmagic 1 year ago
@santosst18 My friend.Our church is made up of a lot of ex-catholics, so i know what a catholic is, and i know what the catholic mass is.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
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santosst18 2 years ago
This is an unusual congregation with an unusual liturgy. The Choir and Band behind the Altar . The Priest and Deacon say the Words of Consecration alternately! The hymns sound lively and happy. Which Christian denomination is this?
frbjoern 2 years ago
Ok with your comments I have actually been to my local Catholic church- I would like to learn more- Maybe rather than talk down to me, maybe help on a Christian level. As for your comments RE C of E- Can I help being Christened in one when I was so young and did not know the difference- is that my Fault?
oxfordpj21 2 years ago
@oxfordpj21 My friend. You are right. It was not your fault, you were brought up in a particular way. Now you are old enough to question things, which is fantastic. Remember, your final authority should be the Word Of God, not the pope, not the queen, but the Bible.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
JN 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall NEVER hunger; and he that believeth on me shall NEVER thirst.
Do you ever thirst?
Do you ever hunger?
uh oh - cant be LITERAL!
bdplist 2 years ago
Where did they get the costumes?
bdplist 2 years ago
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Why does god forbid human sacrifice in one place,
then turn around and demand human sacrifice to appease his rage?
Simlarly, God forbids drinking blood,
then Jesus demands the drinking of his blood,
which, along with ritualized cannibalism,
xians still practice today?
Why did god forbid punishing people for the actions of their fathers,
then condemn us for the actions of Adam?
I think God is a hypocrite.
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
@Imaginefree69 Thats because you do not know what you are talking about. No, catholics practise the mass, true biblical Christians realize when God is speaking symbolically. Please show me two contradictory passages and i would be happy to try and help you. Remember that Jesus Christ fulfilled and replaced the OT laws with a new covenant.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 "true biblical Christians "
Find me three "true biblical Christians " and you'll win a prize.
Let's see..
they would have to show obvious LOVE for one another,
they would not JUDGE the faith of others,
they would do greater works than Jesus ever did,
and if they are born of God they can not sin.
How's that working out for you so far?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 true christians pfft were all hypocrites, were forgiven not purified, ofcourse im better off being forgiven than being the hedonist i once was
Mccarthur1 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 Hello friend. You are missing the point. As believers God will forget our sins. All of our transgressions are washed away by His blood.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
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@Imaginefree69 Hello. We have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Unfortunately, the way to salvation is narrow and few will take it.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 We are washed clean of our sins, past present and future by Christ's blood.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 Are you interested in learning, or argueing?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Hello friend. Some people don't want to abide in truth. This is another example of someone who loves to argue and waste people's time.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Hey, John-
I see that you like to gossip about people with other believers.
Don't you know this is a sun?
If you have something to say about someone,
act like a moral adult and say it to that person.
The actions of Christians are some of the most effective evidence against the Christian religion.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 When you say "Christians", who or what are you referring to? Define "Christian". Are catholics' Christian? Are mormons? Do you class them all the same?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Thats what it must be, my friend.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
I spent over 40 years learning and studying.
Now I am speaking the truth, the results of my research.
Are YOU interested in learning?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 Christ was speaking figuratively when He said we needed to drink His blood and eat His body.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
You sure like to avoid the big issues, don't you?
I posted scripture which says that those who are born of god can not sin.
How's that working out for you?
Also, why do you think that you know more about what Jesus meant than Jesus himself?
That's pretty arrogant, dude.
And where is your response to the FACT that gossip is a sin, and you are gossiping about me?
Yes, you avoid everything that is inconvenient.
That's how delusions work.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Funny how the meaning of Scripture is "literal" in one place, and is only "figurative" in another.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
The Bread He speaks of ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT be FLESH since he did not bring His Flesh with Him from Heaven!
Try substituting the word FLESH in this verse. That is HERESY
Word became FLESH
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, MADE OF A WOMAN
Of the SEED of a woman Gen 3:15
bdplist 3 years ago
Comment removed
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
1 Tim 4: 1-2: The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times some will desert the faith and pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils.
1 Tim 6: 3-4: Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion, is proud and has no understanding.
Raven0065 3 years ago
This is not the Catholic church!
keg646 3 years ago
@keg646 Explain.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
i JUST cant believe how evil and wrong the Catholic faith is. I find it hard to believe that Jesus would not love us all equally based on how we live not what we do in private life, wether we are man or woman. There should be one church, one god, one bread. You may judge C of E but at least we accept all as the body and all created in God.
oxfordpj21 3 years ago
Learn your scripture and history. If the Catholic Church is evil and wrong then Christ is a liar. Or insane. Remember His promise to Peter that He will build His Church on Peter, the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it, and He will be with IT for ALL TIME. Now show me where He made that promise to King Henry V111?? The C of E is a branch sep from the Church of Christ-historical fact! So save your ranting, learn your history and scripture, and return to the Church founded by Christ.
Raven0065 3 years ago
So because I worship in C of E Church I will not be as blessed? or do we do things wrong in our Church- We have exactly the same Mass format and Prayers
oxfordpj21 3 years ago
I cannot say who is blessed or not, but I can tell you that your 'Mass' is not the same as the Catholic Mass. Reasons: The C of E is sep from Rome, therefore you lack episcopal orders which means you have no ordained priests. When a CE pastor reverts to Catholicism he has to be ordained. No Ordinations = no consecration. You have theatre, no Christ's Real Presence. I dont doubt your faith but it is misplaced. Come back to the Church of Christ, 2000 yrs of Tradition and guidance from the H.Spirit
Raven0065 3 years ago
@oxfordpj21 There is only ONE way to heaven, and its not through prayer or any church or any works. It is through Jesus Christ and Him alone.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@Raven0065 JESUS is the rock, not peter. peter was married, was called "satan" by jesus, was rebuked by paul, was never in rome. wake up."For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,which is Jesus Christ."1 Corinthians 3:11 Jesus, NOT peter. "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@Raven0065 The Roman Catholic Church claims that Peter is the rock that the church is built on. They say that Peter is the first Pope who stands in the place of Christ. This position is known as the Vicar of Christ. This is the lineage through which the present Pope receives his authority. Today, the Pope is still the rock that the Roman Catholic Church is built on. The Roman Catholic Church declares. ...
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@Raven0065 ...that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff [Pope]. (Pope Boniface VIII, 1302 AD in an ex cathedra in his Bull Unum Sanctum). Pope Pius IX said about himself, I am the way, the truth, and the life. By the office of the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church denies Jesus his rightful place as the foundation of the true church.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@Raven0065 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner," 1 Peter 2:6-7,
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
oxford, you are also confusing love of person and love of action. Christ always loved the person BUT he did command people to repent and bring their ways into the way of God. God loves you, even if you are gay, but He does not accept your homosexual practices. I am a married man, but God does not condone or accept my behaviour if I have an affair. Take up your cross, Jesus said, not get comfortable with your self-indulgence. Tough message, but the road is narrow...
Raven0065 3 years ago
Oxford also says "I find it hard to believe that Jesus would not love us all equally based on how we live not what we do in private life, wether we are man or woman". How can you compartmentalise your life into private and public and believe that they can be contradictory and still valid? So if I go to mass weekly and help people out that means God should butt out of my desire to masturbate, look at porn, sell drugs or cheat on my wife?? Grow up. We are IN the world, but not OF the world.
Raven0065 3 years ago
@oxfordpj21 I know. It is VERy hard to believe how sinful and satanic the rcc is. When i hear the testimonies of ex-catholic nuns and priests i am shocked. please watch this video on youtube watch?v=a6yDuxzjpxE&feature=PlayList&p=7CD7EB361142F719&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
so Fr JCsc is the Catholic the only Church that is 'right' in terms of your comments, I would like to say- there are more gay men in the Catholic Church who preach at the altar how wrong it is to be gay- but at least the C of E accepts woman etc..... do you think Jesus would deny someone to serve him on the basis of being man or woman or gay or straight-???? The Catholic church is the biggest reason why the Church has gone wrong!!!!!!! Jesus loves ALL
oxfordpj21 3 years ago
how about the orthodox?
marahbadrian 2 years ago
If the people who go to this place truly think of it as their spiritual home, Im all for it. :)
clay56 3 years ago
This is the Metropolitan Community Church, the gay church. I'm with Raven on all counts.
FrJcsc 3 years ago
Not Catholic so not valid. Who cares what they do, its just bread.
Raven0065 3 years ago
How can you believe in Christ but say people or a church does not count just because it is Catholic??? You harbour the many paedophiles and closet gays- you mess with the Bible to suit your horrid faith and views. The C of E is good- its loves woman equally just as Christ did- how can you say whats right and wrong when you are not Jesus- No wonder the Catholic Church is dying out
oxfordpj21 3 years ago
As a matter of fact The C of E is also "dying" after they allow women to become bishops.
marahbadrian 2 years ago
@oxfordpj21 The number of pedophile protestants clergy out does the number of catholic pedophile priests.
santosst18 2 years ago
@santosst18 prove it. BTW, what do you think of the police investigating your pope? Praise God! I pray Gods' will will be done to the horrible crimes the rcc has committed.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@oxfordpj21 Being good will not get you into heaven.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
what church is this?
jinkasima 3 years ago
mm ... I must say I prefer the good old BCP words...
edders05 3 years ago