Theocracy Watch: Dominion Theology (2/5)

[Genin99]

If these whackjobs run the US the 2nd Civil War would start

[waycooltoo]

Mark 12:17

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Sounds like separation of church & state to me...

[ratdancefever3000]

How can a murderer point a gun or sword at an unarmed man, claim the man is evil, and strike him down? Who is committing the murder here? Doms the lord will take revenge himself against you and your children

[ratdancefever3000]

They cannot hide their murderous intent. Hitler wasnt dumb enough to reveal his death camps. The doms have left behind video games that tell us their very intents

[AnarchoSyndicalistt]

Join the Anarchist movement fight the religious fascists.

[ExiledHere]

It seems as though they would have to destroy the Constitution to enforce their agenda. How are they going to do that.

[haladacara]

@ExiledHere

Incremental change via elite support coupled with a broad public movement. The failure of Republicans to flatly reject the Tea Party's agenda paves the way for a Dominionist advance. Republicans are mostly unaware, and most Tea Partiers don't see the nature of what they're advocating. The only thing that's stopped this so far has been the Supreme Court, and while Bush failed to pack the Court, Obama has chosen Kagan, who is weak on church/state separation. tinyurl .com / kagancs

[keldius]

@ExiledHere they will trust me on that a Tyranny can destroy every fabrics of little freedoms you have

[TheIntolerantAtheist]

If I were Jesus I would take out my wrath on Jerry Falwell. I would crush him beneath my thumb. I wouldn't want to spend eternity stuck with that guy hanging out in my kingdom.

[KevZen2000]

Politicians will say and do anything to get elected or to stay in office.. Since majority of the country is Christian, they will favor Christianity. Also, a lot of Catholics are in office, and Catholicism has a lot of power in this country. 25% of the country is Catholic, and the Vatican, would have an incentives to bring in another dark age, if it was present to do so. With 5/9 Catholics in the Supreme Court is something to think about.

[jrlaker]

Academic language aside -- DOMINIONISM IS FUCKING INSANE!!!

[TainaAtheist1]

Senators Ensign, Sanford, and Pickering have all been caught in affairs related to "C Street," who promote "biblical capitalism" and a theocratic future for the United States, and we are electing these people into offices throughout the U.S.!

.

[keldius]

@TainaAtheist1 finally someone woke up and many more american still wodner why their own ally hate them

[goochieguy]

again, thank you so much for this video

[califoniania]

Sure, these assholes crap on the separation of church and state because THEIR religion is the majority and THEY would benefit. I think we should sponsor a free trip to Saudi Arabia for them and see if they still like the idea of theocracy.

[metanosis]

@califoniania no such thing as "separation of church and state", in founding docs, phrase comes from letter of Jefferson to church member who worried about state establishing a religion; Jefferson assured state would not do that. Jefferson used state $s to print Bibles,endorsed teaching of Bible, main reason for formation of republic to establish a state to worship freely, or choose not to....NOT to remove religion, but opposite, to promote it, w/o constraints of state religion.

[jaymthegenius]

We got to tell these theocrats to fuck off and if they dont like a secular constitution and seperation of church and state to get the fuck out of my country, because I dont want them here. I also have a problem with the pope telling people how to vote and who to vote for.

[SayYesToReason]

People seem to forget - we've SEEN what happens when Christianity is the law of the land! Anyone remember the Inquisition? The witch hunts of the 16th and 17th centuries? The Crusades? The founding fathers knew what they were doing keeping religion out of government and government out of religion.

[DonKhoi]

There had been another Communist witch hunt during the McCarthy-ite era.

Our original national motto is in fact a very secular one "E Pluribus Unum" (literally, Out of Many, One) meaning "Uniting Many Into One."

The original pledge of allegiance, written by the Christian socialist Francis Bellamy:

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

Under NO God!

[Richythebee]

@SayYesToReason The examples you have cited are based on a caricatured and incomplete understanding of history. The inquisition, witch hunts, and crusades had comparatively few victims (witch hunts 50000, inquisition 9000, and the crusades were not a terribly bloody war compared to the other national wars), and many positive economic-social effects on Europe. They weren't bad depending on the way you look at them. I think that we should find better grounds for objecting, which I think there are.

[metanosis]

@SayYesToReason inquisition: almost totally political, dressing up political reckonings in church garb, same w/ witch trials, the wide dist of scripture via printing gave revenge minded folk new lever to carry out personal or pol vendettas, crusades was defense vs muslim aggression;on balance indiv citizen in these times had great freedom; atheistic society? nazi's & commies=atheistic view.....millions dead,rule of man not law,murderous dictators, and not 600 years ago, 60 years ago!!!=FAIL

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: "crusades was [were] defense vs [against] muslim aggression." Not quite, Jews in Jerusalem had lived peacefully under Muslim rule, and there had been a Golden Age of Jewish culture. Defending European territory against Muslims aggression is perfectly just, but how about Crusaders' INVASION into Jerusalem. No Liberation Rhetoric please because Jerusalem originally belonged to Jews, who were also MASSACRED by Crusaders, simply replacing the Muslim noose with the Christian one.

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis:

Nazi atheists? What about "Gott mit uns-God with us" on the belt buckles of Wehrmacht soldiers during World War Two, under HITLER'S THIRD REICH?

State Atheism prohibits the Free Exercising of Religion, but a Theocratic Congress makes "law[s] respecting an establishment of religion," unconstitutional in both cases.

Lastly, Marx advocated abolish religion with education and said "violent measures against religion are nonsense" (Chicago Tribune Interview by H., 1879)

[keldius]

@DonKhoi and when we said Marx is evil when actually he said truth

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: "millions dead,rule of man not law,murderous dictators." A Murderer is a Murderer, whatsoever his/her beliefs, considering his/her beliefs is irrelevant to judging his/her actions.

on balance indiv citizen in these times had great freedom: "Great Freedom" with religious persecutions and death sentence for "heresy?" Remember the Cathars during the Albigensian Crusade?

[boundaryzero]

@SayYesToReason .... History ALWAYS... ALWAYS repeats itself unfortunately.

[yvell]

@SayYesToReason Christopher Columbus came to America in search of new land during those times.

[Ant42Lee]

@yvell He's not talking about Columbus, he's talking about men like Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, and the like who drew up the plans for our government.

[Inteckno]

Blow up the bars, the party houses, things change.

[AlmostHuman1]

Round up and gas or shoot the people who advocate the things above...Some traditions are good in theory if only the right group is the victim...

Please note that this is sarcasm

[imnoromeo]

Help to abolish the potential of a theocracy, become a Technocrat and demand that those who lead are those who can do the job, not those appointed by mob rule, socio-economics, or God. The world is changing, and humanity is changing with it. Embrace humanities strengths, embrace logic and reason, embrace our future. Technate the way to the future.

[COMALiteJ]

Anyone who wants to read the complete "The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Blueprints for Political Action" book by Dr. George Grant that Joan quoted from in this section, you can read it online for free from an actual Dominionist website: freebooks·com/docs/219a_47e·ht­m

The quote is from pages 50-51 in the print version, 81 & 82 in the online version.

[COMALiteJ]

"This Constitution, ... and ALL TREATIES made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the SUPREME Law of the land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." — U.S. Constitution, Article VI, Section 2 (aka the "Supremacy Clause").

Note: Treaties are ABSOLUTELY EQUAL TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF as the SUPREME Law of the Land!

[COMALiteJ]

"... the Government of the United States of America is not, IN *ANY* SENSE, founded on the Christian religion..." — The Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11. Ratified UNANIMOUSLY and signed by then-President John Adams.

And there you have it: the SUPREME Law of the Land says that we are NOT a Christian nation IN *ANY* SENSE!

This trumps ANY and ALL arguments that the Dominionists and their ilk can bring up.

[FreedomLover4Ever]

We rn't a Christian nation N name. Our Christian ancestors fought & died 2 C 2 it that we all had freedom of religion N this country, not atheists. However, this country was founded, made/built, etc, by at least 99% Christians 4 a very long time. There4, Christianity is very much a part of this country whether U like it or not.

[COMALiteJ]

Wrong. While MANY of our ancestors were Christian at least in name, it was nowhere NEAR 99%, and few of the Founding Fathers were PRACTICING Christians. Many were in fact OPPOSED to Christianity, including Thomas Jefferson.

Many of the Founding Fathers quotes you're likely to have read in Dominionist Emails are PHONEY BALONEY MADE-UP! We even know who made many of them up: David Barton, founder of the Dominionist organization Wallbuilders, Inc., and VP of the Texas GOP.

[COMALiteJ]

For instance, Madison never ONCE said nor wrote that the Bill of Rights were "based on the Ten Commandments of God." Barton made that one up. Lots of others, too.

Article VI §2 of the Constitution places ratified Treaties as EQUAL to the Constitution ITSELF as the SUPREME Law of the Land.

The Treaty of Tripoli, one of our first ratified Treaties, states outright: "The Government of the United States of America is not *IN* **ANY** *SENSE* founded upon the Christian religion."

[COMALiteJ]

That's the ***SUPREME*** LAW of the LAND saying that! That trumps **ANY** and **ALL** arguments you can try to bring up.

NOT ONE CONGRESSMAN at the time dissented to that Treaty, INCLUDING that clause, and yes, it was presented before them (Treaties have to be passed by Congress before the President [John Addams at the time] signs them to be properly ratified).

[FreedomLover4Ever]

Christians didnt want this 2 B a Christian nation so UR arguing with URself. They wanted it 2 B a free nation 4 every1 2 believe as they chose as long as they werent hurting any1. This was a Christian idea, NOT an atheist idea. If U will do UR research, tho, most of our 1st laws were taken from the Bible b/c so most of our congressmen were Christians. I cant find it now but its there if U want 2 dig 2 C the high percentage. Separation of church & state was the idea of Christians.

[COMALiteJ]

"If U will do UR research, tho, most of our 1st laws were taken from the Bible"

Really? Name one, and what Bible verse it's taken from. Oh, and it cannot have any other potential source that predates the Bible or is unconnected to it, such as Greek or Roman mythology (which all of Western Civilization once worshiped and still derives many of its concepts from, including the names of half of the months of the Julian/Gregorian calendar year) or Code of Hammurabi, etc.

[FreedomLover4Ever]

Coma, there was a secular study done by the American Political Science Review on the political documents of the Founding era which was 1760-1805

This study found 94% of the docs that went N2that ERA were based on the Bible & of that, 34% of the contents were direct quotations from the Bible.

No divorce unless U can prove adultery would B 1 out of many. When we changed 2 no-fault divorces 4 every1 is when our families started falling apart & our country. Families R the backbone of any country.

[COMALiteJ]

And how many of those were also found in other bodies of law, including those that predate the Bible, such as the Code of Hammurabi? Many codes of law forbade divorce except for adultery, since women (esp. wives) were considered property.

Granted, divorce is WAY too free these days. Christians should worry less about same-sex marriage "threatening" traditional marriage and more about the REAL threat to marriage: a 67+% divorce rate! For every lifelong marriage, TWO end in divorce!

[COMALiteJ]

That said, should adultery be the ONLY valid cause for divorce? Jesus thought so, but would He really say that a woman whose husband constantly demeans her and outright beats her up daily in front of the kids, beats and sexually abuses said kids, etc., holds his family captive by taking away their means of travel while he's at work, but who never sleeps with another woman, should have to stay in such a "marriage"?

Let's just say that this is NOT a hypothetical question for all too many people.

[COMALiteJ]

"Separation of church & state was the idea of Christians."

On that we agree. One specific Christian in particular. In fact, the One Who INVENTED Christianity is also the One Who INVENTED Separation of Church and State. No less than THREE of His four official biographers whose account of His life we accept as authoritative found this statement of His important enough to quote Him on it:

"Render therefore unto Cæsar the things that are Cæsar's, and unto God the things that ar God's."

[FreedomLover4Ever]

True. I cant tell U how many times I have paraphrased that verse. Im not sure Y U R arguing with me when we agree on almost everything. I can show U a debate between a Christian & atheist extremists over this crap & how the Christian makes the atheist look like the total idiot he is.

[FreedomLover4Ever]

"That's the *SUPREME* LAW of the LAND saying that! That trumps **ANY** and **ALL** arguments you can try to bring up."

I'm not sure what U think UR arguing about. Looks like we agree on most everything. I dont know if UR just being defensive or what.

[FreedomLover4Ever]

Some of the founders were Unitarians but Madison & Jefferson both attended church at the Whitehouse every Sunday. Even those few who were not Christians talked about how important it was 4 our country's ppl 2 B religious.

Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion & Morality alone which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."

Now we no Y our country is falling

Christians built our 1st schools, etc, NOT atheists

[COMALiteJ]

Ah, yes, the very same John Adams who signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which ALL of the then-members of Congress passed WITHOUT ONE DISSENTING VOTE.

Look, FL4E, atheism as we mean it today was very rare back then, I will admit. Why? Because even the most educated people recognized the need for a First Cause aka Uncaused Causer to initiate the chain of Cause and Effect.

This belief is called "Deism," the belief in a god or supreme being ONLY to fulfill that role.

[COMALiteJ]

The Deist god does not do miracles (other than the First Cause / Uncaused Causer thing itself), issue commandments, define sins and virtues, call prophets (let alone messiahs and saviors), inspire scriptures, answer prayers, etc. He/she/they/it has/have no wish nor desire to be worshiped. Indeed, it need not even be a SAPIENT BEING who is AWARE of his/her/their/its OWN EXISTENCE!

[FreedomLover4Ever]

ComalLite, there were about 3 to 5 signers of the Constitution who werent Christians & the rest of the 50-some absolutely were Look it up. Franklin brought up praying B4 every Constitutional meeting. Even during Jefferson & Madison's admin there was church services actually held N the Whitehouse every Sunday. I could go on & on & on. It was a Baptist preacher, many Baptists & other religious ppl standing at the side of Madison insisting on our Bill of Rights, NOT atheists.

[xxdiogenescynicxx]

You obviously need to read the Treaty of Tripoli.

[DonKhoi]

Thomas Jefferson, who had wrote the Constitution with the word "Creator" is a DEIST (he believs there is some kind of supernatural creator, but dismissed the idea of divine interference).

Secondly, Article11 of the Treaty of Tripoly "As the goverment of the United States is NOT IN ANY SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION..."

[metanosis]

@DonKhoi jefferson had the gov distribute Bibles free, Franklin said this type of gov cannot stand without the spiritual self discipline of xtianity, no denomination favoured, nor any faith, or worldview , athiesm, etc., but all founders voiced the belief without adherence to standards xtianity promotes, devolution to paganism results...check last 30 yrs, precisely happening, each week another teacher has sex with student, "do ur own thing!" moraltiy + 30 yrs=harm to innocents, brutish culture

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: You forgot to mention that dear old Tom distributed HIS OWN VERSION of the King James New Testament which EDITED OUT, the virgin birth, the miracles, the resurrection.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Jefferson, Notes on Virginia

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: I see nothing wrong with teacher having sex with student (or two person having sex with one another) as long as it is CONSENSUAL, in other words, based on an agreement between both parties. Brutish culture? You forgot Giles Corey, who was BRUTALLY pressed to death during the Salem Witch Trials due to his refusal to plead.

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: "Franklin said this type of gov cannot stand without the spiritual self discipline of xtianity," A quote please?

Somewhere else Franklin wrote: ""I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies." (Toward the Mystery)

[metanosis]

@DonKhoi "Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He ought to be worshipped.That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion,Re Jesus of Nazareth, the system of morals, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw

[DonKhoi]

@metanosis: devolution to paganism results. Ahem, Buddhism is paganism in Fundamentalist Christians' eyes and is far more peaceful, promoting Enlightenment, Temperance, and Ending Suffering. I just can't wait to see America evolves into a paradise of Buddhist paganism.

Moreover, there are pagan religions which do NOT advocate human sacrifice and murder at all.

[keldius]

@DonKhoi you named buddhist and actually shintoism hinduism ( I tend to said taoism but no ... )

[metanosis]

@DonKhoi ...not sure about that, but can't speak for Fundamentalists, anyways irrelevant, was using paganism in specific sense as was used to describe the hedonistic, sexually charged, child sacrificing, earth worshipping, naturalists of the ancient times as described in scripture, this could also include the Koran, where the same "paganism" is described....just to give the reference some scope and context..Buddhism, as a system with precepts, is much more civilised than "paganism"...

[karenosbick]

What some Christian's who want a nation based on their religion is this...what if a religion other than Christianity become the largest US religion? Now, are they going to be happy then? See, it's just never a good idea because one day you might be set beneath a religion you don't agree with. You have to keep it separate!

[graffnameseed]

It's time to stop the Dominionists.

Wake up America.

The Faith Based Initiatives are a way to filter money to the right wing religious interests.

That violates the 1st Amendment.

[Swa6543]

The dominionist movement is just like the early Nazi party in the 1920s and 30s.

[david4602]

This is an enlightening video series. I wish a major news network would air it, or at least invite this Joan to their panel.

I'm a Republican (really a libertarian), but fear of the religious right is very scary to me.

[DigiEvolve]

I wish it was too. I'm freaked out when my fellow country men claim this is a christian nation and bash secularism.

[Gnickk]

Sigh. "Extremists," as if it had nothing to do with "real" and "genuine" religion. Your "moderate" faith makes the environment safe for so-called "extremist" faith.

[Swa6543]

True, moderate Christians turn a blind eye to the wackos in their midst. The extremists are highly organized and well funded even though they're a minority, they are the most active and dangerous!

[Rofa7007]

very true

[bcreason]

Up here the last new party we had was the ultra right reform party that came out in the 90's. They ended up merging with the existing conservative party and are now in power.

[bcreason]

You guy's really need more than two parties. You can either vote for the Republican theocrats or the sappy anti-business Democrats. Not much of a choice. Either way your throwing out the baby with the bath water.

[TrueIntentions]

The problem is that any new party will always tend to be liberal-minded, and will therefore split the vote between it and the liberal Democratic party that already exists, and when that happens neither will win.

[iHeartElectricalEng]

@TrueIntentions which is why religion needs to be eliminated first.

[TheGodlessGuitarist]

@TrueIntentions

"The problem is that any new party will always tend to be liberal-minded, and will therefore split the vote between it and the liberal Democratic party that already exists,"

Excellent insight, that is precisley what has happened in the UK, with the LibDem party taking votes from the labour party, leaving the conservative party with the largest voter base. The UK has to vote tactically against the conservatives which means their party of choice is always under-represented.

[ufmb82]

@bcreason Anti business democrats? Have you seen the contributors to Obama and the Democrats from this past election? LOL

[loggerbuck]

@bcreason A lot can change in 3 years!

Obama/Tea Party/Looming Catastrophic economy

[Schpinki]

@bcreason Agreed. Sometimes I feel like the biggest differences in the candidates is the color tie they're wearing.

It's been written that democracy is a temporary form of government and that when people realize that they can vote themselves gifts from the public fund we're on our way down... Theocracy debate aside, I'm concerned.

[Dogmeat1950]

@bcreason there is more then 2 Parties. there are several Parties, hell there is even a NAZI party in the USA and a Communist one. thing is the Dems and Reps have much more Popularity then the others.

[SanguineBullet667]

@bcreason the anti-business part is nonsense. way to show your intelligence.

[Stephanreyu]

World conquest cannot be justified using scripture. These are the words of extremists.

[haroldoftherock2006]

when can it be justified?

[peterbilt47]

It is precisely to protect people's relationship with God (or choice not to) that the separation of Church and State is vital. Without it, you do not have a free society.

Thank you.

[yourworstfriend]

This is amazingly articulate. I can't believe how polarized our senate is between church and state!!! I had no idea that was still an issue! Will we ever enter an era of secular enlightenment?  And scariest of all- the Church-State supporters were also the most avid non-supporters of the environment.

[Swa6543]

Christian extremists don't care about the enviroment, they're only here to wipe their feet until Jesus returns!

[FreedomLover4Ever]

"Christian extremists don't care about the enviroment, they're only here to wipe their feet until Jesus returns!"

Swa, this is more of the propaganda I was telling you about.

[Swa6543]

Fundamentalists that think Jesus is coming back and all that rapture bullshit, Do Not care about the enviroment of a planet they think will cease to exist in the next 50 yaers or so! That is true whether you're a fundamentalist Christian or not- it's not atheist propaganda.

[FreedomLover4Ever]

No, Swa, you are twisting this like crazy. It plainly states in the Bible that it is our duty 2 take care of the earth & the animals. When Christians say the world will end when God's ready 4 it to end & there isnt anything we can do about it, atheists take those words & twist them 2 try 2 mean theres no sense in us trying 2 take care of the earth now b/c the worlds going 2 end soon anyway. Just more propaganda from atheists trying 2 intimidate us from being involved N decisions 4 the US