"Umm...did Paul show repentance and faith? Nope."
What?
Paul went from persecuting Christians to proclaiming the gospel. I would call that a pretty dramatic display of repentance. Do you really think that he could have endured the conditions that he did without faith?
Faith and repentance are not works but gifts from God (see Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-25; Eph. 2:8).
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent He, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given He, but raise it up on the last day."
There is nothing here about man "meeting the conditions for salvation."
Repentance (Acts 11:18) and faith (Eph. 2:8) are both granted by God.
@Hello1689 Anything God commands an individual to do; He has made provision through the cross to enable them to will and to act according to his purpose.
I already know this line of thinking you will set forth and it will go back and forth :) Somehow God will do what he pleases and I have no right to question him. I'm not Q God, just Calvinism. I think I hear Pharaoh calling :)
@Hello1689 Then you shouldn't have said, "The King had no intentions of sleeping with her". I said the King had no intentions of sleeping with a married woman. That is what was conveyed to the King in a dream; that is why the scripture identifies his “integrity”. The King was acting in character given the full story by God. Not God being the “Puppet Master” as you seem to imply. So why would you use this text? This makes you suspect on all the rest of the proof texting you will do.
Here Son, run 10 mile for me, but before you do, I’m going to starve you to death so you can’t. God? Or Calvinism?
Genesis 20:6 is hardly a good example. This person was a man of integrity (T.D.??) and had no intent on sleeping with another man’s wife. God revealing truth – and a person acting on his integrity (CG) – shows God “restraining” an unintended sin. This actually supports my view, so thanks.
Here Son, run 10 mile for me, but before you do, I’m going to starve you so you can’t. God? Or Calvinism?
Genesis 20:6 is hardly a good example. This person was a man of integrity (T.D.??) and had no intent on sleeping with another man’s wife. God revealing truth – and a person acting on his integrity (CG) – shows God “restraining” an unintended sin. This actually supports my view, so thanks.
@Hello1689 God said “do not eat”, he turned and winked, right? You are right; he didn’t want to stop them from doing what he decreed them to do (God’s double speak - according to Calvinism). I’m not a Calvinist, so I’m not using your system (determinism) as my compus. God did not desire them to sin, and gave them grace to resist. Unlike Calvinism, that has God pulling his grace so that Adam had no choice but to sin. That makes God the author of sin.
Apparently God can fail to keep what he created (Adam from eating from the tree), but he somehow can’t fail in his love to bring some back???? The fact is - it is only a failure for the Calvinist mind. God’s desire is for them to respond positively to his grace to salvation, yet allowing them to resist. This is no more of a failure by God than for the one who reaches out his hand to save someone who does not want to be rescued.
@dgjesdal There is no failure to save when God has allowed a choice to reject his call. You are confusing “desire” and “salvation”. Salvation is fail safe "through faith". The Calvinist problem is their system (concept of God) can't seem to handle free will.
I don't think you've captured the essence of Dr. White's argument...maybe you should call the Dividing line and get it straight from the horses mouth?
This is so utterly absurd. You actually try to argue that God giving "prevenient grace" is not trying to save someone? You say He gives it because of a desire, but if God gives prevenient grace in hope that the desire will be fulfilled, how is that not God trying to fulfill His desire??
And see how weak and pathetic this system makes God. Where you, even when speaking of God saving someone, make it nothing more than God trying to do man's will.
@patrckhh20 Your monergistic views are severely clouding your judgment. God tries (and never fails) to save upon man meeting certain conditions (namely repentance). Sir, with all due respect, your problem is that you are believing and accepting a doctrine that the church new nothing of for centuries after the death of the apostles. What happened to the apostles doctrine during these years?
@ThePristineFaith Great response. You didn't even attempt to deal with my argument. All you could say was. "Yea well... you're just a monergist! Ha!" Not very convincing I must say.
@ThePristineFaith Salvation originates in the decree of God, Acts 13:48. So as salvation is a matter of God's decree, it is eternal and immutable and can not be thwarted (Job 42:2), it is "everlasting salvation" Is 45:17. God does not "attempt" to save "when He wants to." He chose us to salvation "before the foundation of the world" Eph 1:4. Thus, those that are given to Christ by the Father will without fail come to Him, John 6:39.
@ThePristineFaith No, it doesn't. However, Arminianism does say that because it places the result of salvation in man's will, man's actions and what man chooses.
I dont see anywhere in scripture, that says, God "tries" to save those who are humble, and are repenting and believing. Salvation is not conditional. Have you not read, that we are saved by grace, and not works? Salvation is not by the will of man, but of God?
yeah we both straw man each other. im a calvinist. you know when the enemy is winning? when we get so angry, we start saying the other side isnt saved.... and when we start straw manning..... im okay with all the people who say arminians arent saved and all the ones who say calvinists arent saved..... because, they themselves have missed it. they have been led into foolishness. controversy that wastes time. and i havent. we must pray.
I'm not Arminian--but you're still imposing your monergism over the text(just as the video claimed).
If you'd read it without that presupposition, you'd realize that God is the first of our faith in Christ(firstborn of it)--so He is the originator of it and the first one to endure to the end, not as you're imposing--that He literally hands out faith and lives it out through us.
It's time to stop reading with TULIP glasses : ) pick up "Troubling questions for Calvinists"
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Matthew 23:37
does it seem so strange to calvinists that great god almighty would want a people with a mutual desire?
@chaingang90 Great point. Although White does correctly note that the passage in Matthew is directed toward the Jewish leadership, it still remains that they thwarted God's desire for them, and also affected Jesus' ministry to the common Jew.
@chaingang90 Great point. Although White does correctly note that the passage in Matthew is directed toward the Jewish leadership, it still remains that they thwarted God's desire for them, and also affected Jesus' ministry to the common Jew.
@chaingang90: This seems to be a popular verse to quote, but Calvinists often quote this verse because it agrees with them. Noow I'm curious, why would they do that chaingang90? Can you explain why they would use Matthew 23:37? All I'm asking is for you to explain their argumentation. Not refute it.
@theocratickingdom30 I understand, they often use it to claim man's depravity and inability. But then, seeing how Jesus wept over them, he could have gone "wait, I made them like that, I can fix this". Instead, it shows that his desire was for a MUTUAL relationship. That's why there came the times of the gentiles & we could go on and on about romans 9-11, the plan for Israel, the church provoking Jews to jealousy and stuff, but then we'd start debating replacement vs olive tree theology
Umm...did Paul show repentance and faith? Nope. God saved him anyway. What about Jacob and Esau? Did Gods election depend on their works? NOPE.
Haukman66 3 months ago
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@Haukman66
"Umm...did Paul show repentance and faith? Nope."
What?
Paul went from persecuting Christians to proclaiming the gospel. I would call that a pretty dramatic display of repentance. Do you really think that he could have endured the conditions that he did without faith?
Faith and repentance are not works but gifts from God (see Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-25; Eph. 2:8).
Bill244888 3 months ago
If God is not trying to save those who haven't "met the conditions of faith and repentance", then why would He send the Holy Spirit to convict them?
Bill244888 4 months ago
John 6:37-39
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent He, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given He, but raise it up on the last day."
There is nothing here about man "meeting the conditions for salvation."
Repentance (Acts 11:18) and faith (Eph. 2:8) are both granted by God.
Bill244888 4 months ago
@Hello1689 Anything God commands an individual to do; He has made provision through the cross to enable them to will and to act according to his purpose.
I already know this line of thinking you will set forth and it will go back and forth :) Somehow God will do what he pleases and I have no right to question him. I'm not Q God, just Calvinism. I think I hear Pharaoh calling :)
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@Hello1689 Then you shouldn't have said, "The King had no intentions of sleeping with her". I said the King had no intentions of sleeping with a married woman. That is what was conveyed to the King in a dream; that is why the scripture identifies his “integrity”. The King was acting in character given the full story by God. Not God being the “Puppet Master” as you seem to imply. So why would you use this text? This makes you suspect on all the rest of the proof texting you will do.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@Hello1689 LO even L - You need to read my post again carefully, and go read the text.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
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@Hello1689
Here Son, run 10 mile for me, but before you do, I’m going to starve you to death so you can’t. God? Or Calvinism?
Genesis 20:6 is hardly a good example. This person was a man of integrity (T.D.??) and had no intent on sleeping with another man’s wife. God revealing truth – and a person acting on his integrity (CG) – shows God “restraining” an unintended sin. This actually supports my view, so thanks.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@Hello1689
Here Son, run 10 mile for me, but before you do, I’m going to starve you so you can’t. God? Or Calvinism?
Genesis 20:6 is hardly a good example. This person was a man of integrity (T.D.??) and had no intent on sleeping with another man’s wife. God revealing truth – and a person acting on his integrity (CG) – shows God “restraining” an unintended sin. This actually supports my view, so thanks.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@Hello1689 God said “do not eat”, he turned and winked, right? You are right; he didn’t want to stop them from doing what he decreed them to do (God’s double speak - according to Calvinism). I’m not a Calvinist, so I’m not using your system (determinism) as my compus. God did not desire them to sin, and gave them grace to resist. Unlike Calvinism, that has God pulling his grace so that Adam had no choice but to sin. That makes God the author of sin.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@Hello1689
Apparently God can fail to keep what he created (Adam from eating from the tree), but he somehow can’t fail in his love to bring some back???? The fact is - it is only a failure for the Calvinist mind. God’s desire is for them to respond positively to his grace to salvation, yet allowing them to resist. This is no more of a failure by God than for the one who reaches out his hand to save someone who does not want to be rescued.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
@dgjesdal There is no failure to save when God has allowed a choice to reject his call. You are confusing “desire” and “salvation”. Salvation is fail safe "through faith". The Calvinist problem is their system (concept of God) can't seem to handle free will.
dgjesdal 4 months ago
AMEN bro patrckhh20!!! It also says our names were written in the Lamb's book of life BEFORE the foundations of the world - Rev. 17:8
Our God is AWESOME!!!
joeraymusic 5 months ago
I don't think you've captured the essence of Dr. White's argument...maybe you should call the Dividing line and get it straight from the horses mouth?
Do you need the number?
rpavich 5 months ago
This is so utterly absurd. You actually try to argue that God giving "prevenient grace" is not trying to save someone? You say He gives it because of a desire, but if God gives prevenient grace in hope that the desire will be fulfilled, how is that not God trying to fulfill His desire??
And see how weak and pathetic this system makes God. Where you, even when speaking of God saving someone, make it nothing more than God trying to do man's will.
patrckhh20 5 months ago
@patrckhh20 Your monergistic views are severely clouding your judgment. God tries (and never fails) to save upon man meeting certain conditions (namely repentance). Sir, with all due respect, your problem is that you are believing and accepting a doctrine that the church new nothing of for centuries after the death of the apostles. What happened to the apostles doctrine during these years?
ThePristineFaith 5 months ago
@ThePristineFaith Great response. You didn't even attempt to deal with my argument. All you could say was. "Yea well... you're just a monergist! Ha!" Not very convincing I must say.
patrckhh20 5 months ago
@patrckhh20 OK. Does the bible teach that when God wants to save someone, he can fail in His attempt?
ThePristineFaith 5 months ago
@ThePristineFaith Salvation originates in the decree of God, Acts 13:48. So as salvation is a matter of God's decree, it is eternal and immutable and can not be thwarted (Job 42:2), it is "everlasting salvation" Is 45:17. God does not "attempt" to save "when He wants to." He chose us to salvation "before the foundation of the world" Eph 1:4. Thus, those that are given to Christ by the Father will without fail come to Him, John 6:39.
patrckhh20 5 months ago
@ThePristineFaith No, it doesn't. However, Arminianism does say that because it places the result of salvation in man's will, man's actions and what man chooses.
metanoeo1 3 months ago
I dont see anywhere in scripture, that says, God "tries" to save those who are humble, and are repenting and believing. Salvation is not conditional. Have you not read, that we are saved by grace, and not works? Salvation is not by the will of man, but of God?
Haukman66 6 months ago
yeah we both straw man each other. im a calvinist. you know when the enemy is winning? when we get so angry, we start saying the other side isnt saved.... and when we start straw manning..... im okay with all the people who say arminians arent saved and all the ones who say calvinists arent saved..... because, they themselves have missed it. they have been led into foolishness. controversy that wastes time. and i havent. we must pray.
grant9120 6 months ago
@Hello1689
I'm not Arminian--but you're still imposing your monergism over the text(just as the video claimed).
If you'd read it without that presupposition, you'd realize that God is the first of our faith in Christ(firstborn of it)--so He is the originator of it and the first one to endure to the end, not as you're imposing--that He literally hands out faith and lives it out through us.
It's time to stop reading with TULIP glasses : ) pick up "Troubling questions for Calvinists"
droptozro 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 6 months ago
Excellent!
SEK4110 6 months ago
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Matthew 23:37
does it seem so strange to calvinists that great god almighty would want a people with a mutual desire?
chaingang90 6 months ago
@chaingang90 Great point. Although White does correctly note that the passage in Matthew is directed toward the Jewish leadership, it still remains that they thwarted God's desire for them, and also affected Jesus' ministry to the common Jew.
ThePristineFaith 6 months ago
@chaingang90 Great point. Although White does correctly note that the passage in Matthew is directed toward the Jewish leadership, it still remains that they thwarted God's desire for them, and also affected Jesus' ministry to the common Jew.
ThePristineFaith 6 months ago
@chaingang90: This seems to be a popular verse to quote, but Calvinists often quote this verse because it agrees with them. Noow I'm curious, why would they do that chaingang90? Can you explain why they would use Matthew 23:37? All I'm asking is for you to explain their argumentation. Not refute it.
theocratickingdom30 5 months ago
@theocratickingdom30 I understand, they often use it to claim man's depravity and inability. But then, seeing how Jesus wept over them, he could have gone "wait, I made them like that, I can fix this". Instead, it shows that his desire was for a MUTUAL relationship. That's why there came the times of the gentiles & we could go on and on about romans 9-11, the plan for Israel, the church provoking Jews to jealousy and stuff, but then we'd start debating replacement vs olive tree theology
chaingang90 4 months ago in playlist More videos from ThePristineFaith
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chaingang90 6 months ago