It's the goods lift again - COP Inspection switch

[Meanmanmartin2007]

Thanks for showing us this

And do you know what, you've reminded me of that scene in Only Fools and Horses-Time On Our Hands when Del Boy purposely stops the lifts in Nelson Mandela House. He pulls the control panel open in exactly the same way you did at the start of the video

[mrmattandmrchay]

@Meanmanmartin2007 I've got to see that episode Martin! I don't remember seeing it.

[thyssenelevator95]

Also, are Express lift controllers relay logic or do they use microprocessors with relays to switch the motor on, work the doors, bells, lanterns, butttons, etc.?

[mrmattandmrchay]

Depends on the age of the lift, this one I would expect is a bit of both, but probably older style microprocessor cards.

The older Express Lifts had a floor select which had a unique sound - see this video:

watch?v=1iyhCcp5zEM (1:05)

This would have been totally mechanical.

[thyssenelevator95]

Just a question. How does Express do the floor indicator? Is there some circuitry on the controller that works the display, or is it worked by relays and a microprocessor?

[thyssenelevator95]

If Express Lifts used microprocessors, they seem to be just as bad then as Montgomery was here in the States!

[harrihealey02]

Nice panel. What did the red swich do?? I heard the lift stop but also the switch at the end tops the lift to. I ahd the same trouble with the express lift at the brentwood baytree centre when it went to the wrong floor.

[mrmattandmrchay]

The red switch takes the lift completely out of service (it's a bit like unplugging the whole lift!), whereas the middle switch turns on inspection mode - so that you can move the lift car up and down using the end switch.

With the left red switch in the ISOLATE position - nothing works, not even inspection mode.

Thanks for comment

[Rizzbriff]

Matt. I think that microswitch u describe that isolates the lift (9:51) may be the car preference keyswitch. putting the correct key in this would let you control the elevator via key. All hall/landing calls would be disabled. Express used the same key know as FE35 on all their equipment from the 50s to late 1990s

[mrmattandmrchay]

Yeah, you are probably right. I noticed this switch just as I was leaving and took a photo. Thought it was the key that opened the COP (annotation amended)

[mrmattandmrchay]

Hi Sav, you know you said about these lifts 'going out of step'...

when I pushed 2nd floor between 08:22 - 08:40, although the floor indicator is wrong (B) the lift still stopped at the 2nd floor.

How come the controller knew where the lift was and where to stop it, but the floor indicator doesn't? Is this to do with pulses (e.g. a pulse as the lift passes each floor, but this still doesn't account for the fact the car stopped on the right floor?)

[Rizzbriff]

When u went to the top floor the lift found itself but the indicator needs a reset from the bottom floor. The lift works as normal but indicator displays wrong untill you took it to the basement and then started working normally.

[Quentinmovie]

In only fools and horses (british TV comedy) Del Boy broke into a Kone COP and found a switch to stop the lift. Does this lift hve a similar switch?

[mrmattandmrchay]

I remember a few when Del and Rodney were in their block of flats with the lifts, but not this one. Was this episode one of the more recent ones?

Kone have only been around from the mid to late 80s(?), before that it was 'Kone Marryatt and Scott'.

As far as I know, Express were one of the only manufacturers to fit these switches. I have seen behind various COPs and this is the first time I have seen them. Normally they are more use on the car top.

[Quentinmovie]

It was "Time on our hands," part 3 of the 1996 christmas trilogy. It said Kone on the COP. It has the small black butons. It was incredibly funny!

[Rizzbriff]

Ths problem with the older type lifts is they tend to go "Out of Step" when stopped to work on. It will also effect the landing calls. So the lift for instance thinks its at 1st floor but really its at ground when you push the 1st floor landing button the lift opens at the ground! The only way to reset them is to run to a terminal floor to let the selector do a reset. This is a common problem on older express and thames valley controllers. Great video

[mrmattandmrchay]

I worked with a lift eng once - he showed me three roller switches, there was a set at the top and bottom of shaft (whats the difference btwn 'hoistway' and 'shaft' BTW?).

1st switch - slow, 2nd - stop, 3rd - overrun.

The purpose of these switches was to slow then stop the lift in ANY situation. I'm presuming that when the lift went into the basement and hit the mechanical 'slow' and 'stop' switches at the bottom of the shaft, this sorted out the 'out of step' situation...

[mrmattandmrchay]

...what would have happened if these mechanical 'slow' and 'stop' roller switches had not been there? Does the lift rely on these if the lift goes out of step and thinks it is higher than it actually is?

Sorry for so many questions!

[Rizzbriff]

Without the terminal switches the lift/counterweight would buffer at full speed. High speed Otis lifts also have a roller on a long arm that acts as a backup to normal slowing into a terminal floor. It picks up on ramps as approaching top and bottom floors. If the lift is running to fast into a terminal floor it would be brought to a controlled slowdown stop. Even latest equipment runs to a terminal floor to find itself.

[Rizzbriff]

Hoistway/shaft are the same thing just hoistway sounds more flashy! Like I say elevator instead of Lift plus think it would get more hits from america and alike.

[Rizzbriff]

Yes the selector resets when it receives a terminal switch signal. On the old express carridge type selector you would see the carridge spin aroun very fast once it had found itself after going out of step.

[mrmattandmrchay]

Yum, lots of food for my brain tonight! Very interesting!

I hear what you say about the roller ramp switches, sometimes you can hear them beside the car when the lift arrives into a basement. Do you remember Temple Court in the city? (next to Bucklersbury house). The lifts here were Express (they were modernised, but a lot of original fittings still existed) - you could hear something like a roller switch on a ramp when these lifts arrived in the sub-basement. (these were very loud...

[mrmattandmrchay]

...machines, quite a low frequency noise but quite loud. Not sure if these machines were original express). I liked this site, its still there I think but derelict. Those service lifts (completely original Express with the light bulb panel above every floor) were great! Did you ever work on these? I asked several times to get into the motor room, but was denied each time, even by the maintenance guy who said he didn't have access!

[Rizzbriff]

I was based in Bucklesbury for a couple of weeks when an apprentice and went there occasionally on call. The site use to have a 2 resident lift engineers there Monday to Friday. I Think jacksons looked after Temple court. I aslo worked on construction as an apprentice and helped install a Hydraulic Car Lift At 1 Poultry across the road from Bucklesbury.

[CaptainElevator42189]

Interesting how the inspection station is in the car station, rather than above the car.

[Rizzbriff]

Express used to have these controls inside the car panel in addition to the car top control

[CaptainElevator42189]

Now that's amazing, so it can be controlled from 2 areas of the elevator.