Slavery without a state = Serfdom but Serfdom isnt really slavery, it just seems that way because we enforce our own moral compass on a 1000 year old society. The relationship to todays individual and the its central banking system is very close to what serfdom was yet most wouldnt call it that way.
The ST isn't really an antistatist. He's a wannabe king. He wants to control the army and police or get rid of them and replace them with his thugs so he can force people to somehow live in his twisted view of the world. Unless deep down he knows everything he says is nonsense except for antistatistism.
I have a question, since you dont like the word 'anarchism' because of all of the negative things associated with it, then what's your opion on the word 'capitalism'? Because nowadays the word capitalism is used to describe things like corporatism and imperialism, do you think that there should be a better word to use than capitalism?
@fringeelements You said that anarchism is a broken word that has many subjective definitions. What I'm saying that the same can be said about things like the market or the word capitalism, which is also a broken word with many subjective definitions. No need to act all prissy.
....I'm sorry, but it's not that simple. There is no magic system that makes it all work like clockwork. A civilization is just a macro sum of it's parts (the individuals); nothing more; nothing less. Therefore, if you want a better society, then the path is not to sit and theorize the 'perfect system' in your own minds; rather, the way is to get off your rear ends and try to improve your own character as well as the character traits of those around you and your locality and so on. That's is it!
Aren't states these theorized systems? Polycentric law comes about through human action and human interaction. Conflict is solved on a case by case basis which creates precedent: case laws. These laws offer a platform for solving conflict in the future, but solving conflict is still done on a case by case basis and precedents can be overturned. Nothing is more natural then this process.
The state is a result of human design and is by definition theoretical.
Hi fringe, hearing you talk is like having my own thoughts repeated to me. I agree with you on pretty much everything. I have a little trouble with how you define 'self-ownership', but as you say the meaning of words is intersubjective. It's a bit hard to explain my view in 500 characters, but i'll try in my next comment.
A human derives most of his value from the fact that he is an actor, meaning he can act. Without that "act" part the human is just a bunch of chemicals, pretty worthless. It is simply impossible for me to ever control the 'actor' part of a human being. I can threaten him with force if he does not act in a certain way. But it is still his action that has full control in the end.
That's a bit too abstract. I'm not too interested in that. I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make. I guess it's that one cannot control another person's will, and in that sense it's impossible to truly "own" another person. But in the future there could be mind control, and so if that was your point it would only be correct in the context of present technology.
Even if we invent "mind-control" it still does not negate self-ownership. Sure you could "take control" of "my body". But never of the acting part, the mind or whatever you want to call it. It is the actor itself that has value and by replacing an actor in one body with your own, does not mean you control the old actor.
The point I'm trying to make is that the "value" humans have comes from they fact that they are an "actor". It comes from the self-ownership.
There is no point in "owning" a human if he does not have the ability to act. This is why mind control is a pretty useless thing. You could better invest money in developing an semi-autonomous robot. It would probably be much more cost efficient then mind control.
Btw, if you are not interest in talking about this thats perfectly okay. You just seemed like a smart guy and I was interested in your thoughts on self-ownership.
@eduardkhilify I don't know why we're talking about this. You control his mind only to a certain extent, he knows how to control his body in more precise ways. Like saying "chop those logs" - he'll take care of the specifics. The mind control is more meta.
Maybe a robot would be more cost efficient, maybe not. It's perfectly plausible that figuring out how to control brains is easier than engineering new brains.
...Now, even if you don't understand these to be holy books or books of recorded prophecy from God, you can still take a lesson from this. The point the source of success and tranquility within a given society, with regards to finances as well as crime ( or any other quality of life metric or happiness), is the individuals within that society. The reverse of this is also true; and this is why people try to find a scapegoat and try to theorize 'the perfect system'....continued...
..Thus, you are all, in my opinion, arguing about the wrong things. Any reasonable kind of society will do (obviously not a North Korea, or some such thing). But any society that is not extremist will do, and will be a wonderful place for all to live - So long as the individuals are good. This is what the scriptures show me. When the Israelites are virtuous, God blesses them and peace and prosperity reign; when they are wicked he punishes them with chaos and poverty...continued...
You see, I think that the obsession with definitions and terminology, and speculations and theories about what kind of societies would be ideal... All that, in my opinion, misses the point. It is the individuals that make the society, not the other way around. Therefore, the best society is not one that is formed with impeccable logic; rather, the society is made best as that society's individuals become more virtuous, just, and freedom oriented (respecting the others rights as themselves)...
Interesting, judges before kings. I was just reading the (scripture) book of judges this past weekend (which comes before the book of kings. The book of judges is a perfect illustration of the dynamics and feel of a stateless government-less society. You talk of what can be expected. The thing is, that it all depends on the individuals. If the individuals are mostly virtuous and just then you will have a wonderful society, if the opposite then the opposite. But, isn't that true of all societies?
@fringeelements - What's happening with your tumblr? I took a link to it from another tumblr which featured a piece you wrote, and I ended up at a webpage that looked malware ridden. I used the google preview function to view your website, and it still had the dodgy page.
"If they can collude to blackball legal agencies that don't require payment for defense then can't they also collude to pass laws without operationally universal support?"
As i see it sure, but it would unprofitable in the long run.
Your assessment of TheSmoothTerrorist/Fakesagan's 99.9% opposition to archons is pretty well on point. The 0.1% of archons that he does subject himself to could be defined as typical conventions of language (give or take a few definitions), and, most of all, his own bloated ego.
@ShwangShwing It can't be translated in a lot of languages. In Russian for example, statism is "etatism", kind of like in french, but no one really uses "anti-etatism" in a lot of contexts.
Most political terms suffer from vagueness and are susceptible to being corrupted. "Liberal" no longer means advocate of liberty (in a U.S. political context). Not all opponents of "statism" (see merriam-webster) are "antistatists" in the sense of desiring statelessness. I think any "anarcho-"anything would share the desire to eliminate the state in common with all other anarchists, even if some anarchists don't agree philosophically with others on anything else.
Except most anarchists either advocate some institution that is exactly like a state, or have some preference which they would be comfortable imposing on people through some program of the democratic state. Some anarcho-syndicalists I spoke to were in favour of socialized healthcare, in favour of increased state regulation and minimum wage laws and in favour of state ownership of land, -
- and others spoke of state power needing to be balanced against corporate power.
Anarchism can imply various varieties of anti-statism, but it is also frequently used to signify some variety of vanilla fascism, or even totalitarian state socialism.
what if it can all change with one thought? ... after which all individuals saw that with out doubt
..
all of humanity is like a .... hmm... like coral ... coral has independent arms or branches each act as one individual... scientists did some tests by burning a branch or two with an under water torch ... and found that the whole coral reacted ... so individuality.. is an illusion
growing up if you cut one member of my family my whole family bled... one for all!.. for all are one!
You evil blooddrinking zionist-atheists are silly. Archons are just a starcraft unit, which is also a zionist-plot against the Islamic and pre-islmamic world.
There's really no need to alienate your supporters. Most market-anarchists, agorists, anarcho-capitalists, whatever you want to call this general trend, don't have anything against "law" as an idea. That's more typical of "left-libertarians", anarcho-communists, or stereotype "anarchists". The most well-known ancap writers envision law as a service. Nothing about your historical "common law" is incompatible with that. Why the sudden hostility to anarcho-capitalism?
@fringeelements Hmm, good point. I think though I'd be cautious of getting too hung up on the name business. Anti-statist movements have long stagnated in pointless schisms over identity, when it's often mere matters of semantics. Whether to use the word capitalism, to call it a market, or avoid current terms altogether, is purely personal preference. So is 'anarchism' over anti-statism, especially when you consider that only the fringe knows 'statism' as a thing.
@N7a7v7i Anecdotal, but I thought I'd share anyway: I like 'anarchism' to some degree because it carries a negative connotation. It has shock value to the mainstream; never underestimate that. Niggers call themselves and each other niggers; someday fags will embrace the word fag, and so on. A slur is not a slur if it can only mean what someone actually is. Similarly, why not be anarchist? It scares off the weak-minded and invites those not afraid of being on the fringe.
Hm.. I've always considered myself an anarcho/market anarchist, and don't see the contradiction between that and polycentric law firms and conflict resolution firms.
To solve civil disputes, Blood money, if you fuck with someone, they pay you, if they cannot steal someone valuable that they own, maybe a kidney, to sell to people in need of a kidney transplant.
@TehAlexJonesChannel For criminal disputes, an eye for an eye, If someone breaks your arm get your local town psychopath to break his leg, prisons are useless at stopping recidivism of crimes.
AWESOME! new video. Thanks fringe elements, brilliant, the workplace is an ARCHY, but the biggest ARCHY, the state is oppressive for all peoples. At least all "anarchists" are Anti-BIG ARCHY the state. Fuck the roads, and the police, SmoothTerrorist approves of eliminating property rights, yet is against wealth re-distribution, that is fail. You win
you own your dog
but you can't fight or beat dogs
MirageScience 2 weeks ago
How do you feel about "Voluntarist"?
MrUnicorn1995 2 weeks ago
Where is this clip from????
chaos5copiesmartguy 1 month ago
Slavery without a state = Serfdom but Serfdom isnt really slavery, it just seems that way because we enforce our own moral compass on a 1000 year old society. The relationship to todays individual and the its central banking system is very close to what serfdom was yet most wouldnt call it that way.
quatroseven 1 month ago
@fringeelements What the hell is this awesome animation? Source plz
breakingthe4thwall 1 month ago
good video. awesome visuals.
SkidRowRadio 1 month ago
The ST isn't really an antistatist. He's a wannabe king. He wants to control the army and police or get rid of them and replace them with his thugs so he can force people to somehow live in his twisted view of the world. Unless deep down he knows everything he says is nonsense except for antistatistism.
Bleakfacts 1 month ago
great vid.
WallabeeDeviant89 1 month ago
What happened to your blog bro
StatelessEuphoria 1 month ago 4
I have a question, since you dont like the word 'anarchism' because of all of the negative things associated with it, then what's your opion on the word 'capitalism'? Because nowadays the word capitalism is used to describe things like corporatism and imperialism, do you think that there should be a better word to use than capitalism?
PoisonToothG 1 month ago
@PoisonToothG That's not why I don't use the word "anarchism". Stop anticipating and just listen to what is actually said... or stop wasting my time.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@fringeelements You said that anarchism is a broken word that has many subjective definitions. What I'm saying that the same can be said about things like the market or the word capitalism, which is also a broken word with many subjective definitions. No need to act all prissy.
PoisonToothG 1 month ago
@fringeelements Easy there, it was an ok question. No need to get testy...
opetr198336 1 month ago
You sound like one of those contextual nihilism faggots :)
Sepero1 1 month ago
....I'm sorry, but it's not that simple. There is no magic system that makes it all work like clockwork. A civilization is just a macro sum of it's parts (the individuals); nothing more; nothing less. Therefore, if you want a better society, then the path is not to sit and theorize the 'perfect system' in your own minds; rather, the way is to get off your rear ends and try to improve your own character as well as the character traits of those around you and your locality and so on. That's is it!
7Highlander 1 month ago
@7Highlander No there's no perfect system, states are utopian, which is why the advocacy of markets and polycentric law is consummately realist.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@7Highlander
Aren't states these theorized systems? Polycentric law comes about through human action and human interaction. Conflict is solved on a case by case basis which creates precedent: case laws. These laws offer a platform for solving conflict in the future, but solving conflict is still done on a case by case basis and precedents can be overturned. Nothing is more natural then this process.
The state is a result of human design and is by definition theoretical.
eduardkhilify 1 month ago
Hi fringe, hearing you talk is like having my own thoughts repeated to me. I agree with you on pretty much everything. I have a little trouble with how you define 'self-ownership', but as you say the meaning of words is intersubjective. It's a bit hard to explain my view in 500 characters, but i'll try in my next comment.
eduardkhilify 1 month ago
A human derives most of his value from the fact that he is an actor, meaning he can act. Without that "act" part the human is just a bunch of chemicals, pretty worthless. It is simply impossible for me to ever control the 'actor' part of a human being. I can threaten him with force if he does not act in a certain way. But it is still his action that has full control in the end.
eduardkhilify 1 month ago
That's a bit too abstract. I'm not too interested in that. I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make. I guess it's that one cannot control another person's will, and in that sense it's impossible to truly "own" another person. But in the future there could be mind control, and so if that was your point it would only be correct in the context of present technology.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@fringeelements
Even if we invent "mind-control" it still does not negate self-ownership. Sure you could "take control" of "my body". But never of the acting part, the mind or whatever you want to call it. It is the actor itself that has value and by replacing an actor in one body with your own, does not mean you control the old actor.
The point I'm trying to make is that the "value" humans have comes from they fact that they are an "actor". It comes from the self-ownership.
eduardkhilify 1 month ago
@fringeelements
There is no point in "owning" a human if he does not have the ability to act. This is why mind control is a pretty useless thing. You could better invest money in developing an semi-autonomous robot. It would probably be much more cost efficient then mind control.
Btw, if you are not interest in talking about this thats perfectly okay. You just seemed like a smart guy and I was interested in your thoughts on self-ownership.
eduardkhilify 1 month ago
@eduardkhilify I don't know why we're talking about this. You control his mind only to a certain extent, he knows how to control his body in more precise ways. Like saying "chop those logs" - he'll take care of the specifics. The mind control is more meta.
Maybe a robot would be more cost efficient, maybe not. It's perfectly plausible that figuring out how to control brains is easier than engineering new brains.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@fringeelements There's mind control right now.
MoneyIsSilver 1 month ago
...Now, even if you don't understand these to be holy books or books of recorded prophecy from God, you can still take a lesson from this. The point the source of success and tranquility within a given society, with regards to finances as well as crime ( or any other quality of life metric or happiness), is the individuals within that society. The reverse of this is also true; and this is why people try to find a scapegoat and try to theorize 'the perfect system'....continued...
7Highlander 1 month ago
..Thus, you are all, in my opinion, arguing about the wrong things. Any reasonable kind of society will do (obviously not a North Korea, or some such thing). But any society that is not extremist will do, and will be a wonderful place for all to live - So long as the individuals are good. This is what the scriptures show me. When the Israelites are virtuous, God blesses them and peace and prosperity reign; when they are wicked he punishes them with chaos and poverty...continued...
7Highlander 1 month ago
You see, I think that the obsession with definitions and terminology, and speculations and theories about what kind of societies would be ideal... All that, in my opinion, misses the point. It is the individuals that make the society, not the other way around. Therefore, the best society is not one that is formed with impeccable logic; rather, the society is made best as that society's individuals become more virtuous, just, and freedom oriented (respecting the others rights as themselves)...
7Highlander 1 month ago
Interesting, judges before kings. I was just reading the (scripture) book of judges this past weekend (which comes before the book of kings. The book of judges is a perfect illustration of the dynamics and feel of a stateless government-less society. You talk of what can be expected. The thing is, that it all depends on the individuals. If the individuals are mostly virtuous and just then you will have a wonderful society, if the opposite then the opposite. But, isn't that true of all societies?
7Highlander 1 month ago
oops, i posted that question twice forgetting i had done it before.
Worldslargestipod 1 month ago
Did somebody take down your tumblr?
Worldslargestipod 1 month ago 2
@Worldslargestipod No, I changed my debit card and the DNS tried to bill the old one. I'll get it back up later.
fringeelements 1 month ago
@fringeelements - What's happening with your tumblr? I took a link to it from another tumblr which featured a piece you wrote, and I ended up at a webpage that looked malware ridden. I used the google preview function to view your website, and it still had the dodgy page.
xXMetalMeltdownXx 1 month ago
Oh my science, your voice is so sexy. You should do more videos where you are shirtless and we get to see you.
ArtinEmil 1 month ago
What kind of anarchist is Fakesagan anyway?
1000g2g3g4g800999 1 month ago
A real one.
1000g2g3g4g800999 1 month ago
@1000g2g3g4g800999 He told me he follows no economic system
lovingsingleton 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1000g2g3g4g800999
"What kind of anarchist is Fakesagan anyway?"
watch?v=tdskjw9XnwU
InvincibleNumanist 1 month ago
Woah that's a trippy cartoon
CMO999 1 month ago
You must construct additional pylons
Darkwizzrobe 1 month ago
is your tumblr down or something?
Worldslargestipod 1 month ago
@Worldslargestipod I'm wondering about that as well.
MISTERWONKA7 1 month ago
Ugh... please don't feed the FakeSagan.
ZombieX13 1 month ago
@TheAntiEgalitarian
"If they can collude to blackball legal agencies that don't require payment for defense then can't they also collude to pass laws without operationally universal support?"
As i see it sure, but it would unprofitable in the long run.
ProDCloud 1 month ago
Comment removed
ProDCloud 1 month ago
Could not a belief in anti-archonistism be just as archonic as religion?
Codeeist 1 month ago
In conclusion, Fuck the roads!
45means45 1 month ago
@45means45 hahahaha, its becoming demotivational from this point
trilerkiler 1 month ago
Why did I have to click on this video whilst high...
MalakiaRat 1 month ago
Wasn't an archon a type of angel?
AkaiTsukiShimitsu 1 month ago
Fringeelements, you are the best-est. <3
sticksquash 1 month ago
Is there a reason your tumblr is down?
BadgeringTheWitness1 1 month ago
Your assessment of TheSmoothTerrorist/Fakesagan's 99.9% opposition to archons is pretty well on point. The 0.1% of archons that he does subject himself to could be defined as typical conventions of language (give or take a few definitions), and, most of all, his own bloated ego.
hellsunicorn 1 month ago 3
Anarchists are degenerate faggots. The world is better off without them.
XmXFLUXmX2 1 month ago
The term "anti statist" cannot be well translated in my language :(
ShwangShwing 1 month ago
@ShwangShwing It can't be translated in a lot of languages. In Russian for example, statism is "etatism", kind of like in french, but no one really uses "anti-etatism" in a lot of contexts.
sticksquash 1 month ago
@sticksquash in my language it would be "antietatist" and it doesnt sound good so I call myself an anarchocapitalist.
marketanarchist2011 1 month ago
Most political terms suffer from vagueness and are susceptible to being corrupted. "Liberal" no longer means advocate of liberty (in a U.S. political context). Not all opponents of "statism" (see merriam-webster) are "antistatists" in the sense of desiring statelessness. I think any "anarcho-"anything would share the desire to eliminate the state in common with all other anarchists, even if some anarchists don't agree philosophically with others on anything else.
LibertarianRealist 1 month ago
@LibertarianRealist
Except most anarchists either advocate some institution that is exactly like a state, or have some preference which they would be comfortable imposing on people through some program of the democratic state. Some anarcho-syndicalists I spoke to were in favour of socialized healthcare, in favour of increased state regulation and minimum wage laws and in favour of state ownership of land, -
-
PanzerDivisionBOM 1 month ago
-
- and others spoke of state power needing to be balanced against corporate power.
Anarchism can imply various varieties of anti-statism, but it is also frequently used to signify some variety of vanilla fascism, or even totalitarian state socialism.
PanzerDivisionBOM 1 month ago
down with tags!
aStraightWhiteMale 1 month ago 2
what if it can all change with one thought? ... after which all individuals saw that with out doubt
..
all of humanity is like a .... hmm... like coral ... coral has independent arms or branches each act as one individual... scientists did some tests by burning a branch or two with an under water torch ... and found that the whole coral reacted ... so individuality.. is an illusion
growing up if you cut one member of my family my whole family bled... one for all!.. for all are one!
teddymarvelle 1 month ago
You evil blooddrinking zionist-atheists are silly. Archons are just a starcraft unit, which is also a zionist-plot against the Islamic and pre-islmamic world.
Moslem74275 1 month ago in playlist Flere videoer fra fringeelements 15
@Moslem74275 Flere videoer fra fringeelements.
Tsicar 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 Are the islamists the Zerg or the Protoss? LOL
DaveElectric 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 that's probably true
fringeelements 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 Protoss r tha best.
1000g2g3g4g800999 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 *constructs additional pylons*
1000g2g3g4g800999 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 fucking no good jews
hospitaler808 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 When Koreans pilot unmanned drones, the Muslim world will be doomed.
tetrahydroscope 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 archon = άρχων( άρχοντας ) is a greek word and it means "chief" or "leader"
metamindkon 1 month ago
@Moslem74275 And mind control came up in the discussion so may be we shouldn't exclude Dark Archons either.
ShwangShwing 1 month ago
That video in the background is fucking amazing.
theaaroneason 1 month ago
There's really no need to alienate your supporters. Most market-anarchists, agorists, anarcho-capitalists, whatever you want to call this general trend, don't have anything against "law" as an idea. That's more typical of "left-libertarians", anarcho-communists, or stereotype "anarchists". The most well-known ancap writers envision law as a service. Nothing about your historical "common law" is incompatible with that. Why the sudden hostility to anarcho-capitalism?
N7a7v7i 1 month ago 5
@N7a7v7i Well, if by saying that their name is stupid alienates them, then they need to grow thicker skins.
fringeelements 1 month ago 3
@fringeelements Hmm, good point. I think though I'd be cautious of getting too hung up on the name business. Anti-statist movements have long stagnated in pointless schisms over identity, when it's often mere matters of semantics. Whether to use the word capitalism, to call it a market, or avoid current terms altogether, is purely personal preference. So is 'anarchism' over anti-statism, especially when you consider that only the fringe knows 'statism' as a thing.
N7a7v7i 1 month ago
@N7a7v7i Anecdotal, but I thought I'd share anyway: I like 'anarchism' to some degree because it carries a negative connotation. It has shock value to the mainstream; never underestimate that. Niggers call themselves and each other niggers; someday fags will embrace the word fag, and so on. A slur is not a slur if it can only mean what someone actually is. Similarly, why not be anarchist? It scares off the weak-minded and invites those not afraid of being on the fringe.
N7a7v7i 1 month ago
LIKE AN ARCHON.
StatelessLiberty 1 month ago
@StatelessLiberty I think that is spelled Archawn! You know, like a baws.
Scientisticsoviet 1 month ago
you lost me after that fucking dog pulled the lever. i had to rewind loll
dantedom1 1 month ago
lol, sources ARE archons
randomActOfBlindness 1 month ago
Hey fringeelements, have you ever seen the Star Trek episode, Return of the Archons?
Are you of the body?
SpaceProbeSeven 1 month ago
Hm.. I've always considered myself an anarcho/market anarchist, and don't see the contradiction between that and polycentric law firms and conflict resolution firms.
TheStrangerInTheRye 1 month ago
Could you please send the guy writing this comment, 2 hits of acid, and the background video to this one?
BandOfAtheist 1 month ago
Fringeelements made a youtube video?!?
Worldslargestipod 1 month ago 3
Bill Burr is the archon of sex and funny.
and i do mean THE archon. .
paradoarify 1 month ago
Drinkin beers, drinkin beers. Drinkin beers, beers, beers. Rollin fatties, rollin blunts. Who smoked the blunts?
lovingsingleton 1 month ago
Where does the video come from, breh?
ABoffman 1 month ago
@ABoffman Mai butt
fringeelements 1 month ago 8
@fringeelements
Your mom has a butt.
QuantumMaths 1 month ago
@fringeelements Nope — didn't see a dick in there!
Tsicar 1 month ago 14
@fringeelements LMMFAO!
aaronscrewme 1 month ago
Trippy
DerrEinzige 1 month ago
good vid
wood9670 1 month ago
To solve civil disputes, Blood money, if you fuck with someone, they pay you, if they cannot steal someone valuable that they own, maybe a kidney, to sell to people in need of a kidney transplant.
TehAlexJonesChannel 1 month ago 2
@TehAlexJonesChannel For criminal disputes, an eye for an eye, If someone breaks your arm get your local town psychopath to break his leg, prisons are useless at stopping recidivism of crimes.
TehAlexJonesChannel 1 month ago
Might have to watch this twice, being distracted by the visuals.
reapfreak 1 month ago
@reapfreak Visuals are archons, man!
GamesCanBeArt 1 month ago
AWESOME! new video. Thanks fringe elements, brilliant, the workplace is an ARCHY, but the biggest ARCHY, the state is oppressive for all peoples. At least all "anarchists" are Anti-BIG ARCHY the state. Fuck the roads, and the police, SmoothTerrorist approves of eliminating property rights, yet is against wealth re-distribution, that is fail. You win
TehAlexJonesChannel 1 month ago
Comment removed
TehAlexJonesChannel 1 month ago