1)U didnt support UR claim JC "authored & finished faith & created all things"-How come?
2)Instead U change subject. How come?
3)JC was Jew! U insist reading him as a Greco-Roman! How come?
4)Not all Jews wanted him dead. State apparatus built by Rome & Jewish allies were threatened so created a scenario. Quran says IT (not Allah) was made to APPEAR so. How come people make conjecture?
5)Q doesnt say JC taken to Allah during this scene.
@eatingeatingeating: 1)U didnt support UR claim JC "authored & finished faith & created all things"-How come?
Ram: I wasn't trying to. I was just asking why YOU avoided quoting those scriptures. Guess who is trying to change the subject here?
eating: 2)Instead U change subject. How come?
Ram: How am I changing the subject. I noticed you were avoiding other scriptures in your arguement of how Jesus is not special, and, it made me produce other scriptures which, of course, I knew you w
Ram: (cont): (which is supposed to be Allah's words), to make sense, true?
eating: Quran says IT (not Allah) was made to APPEAR so.
Ram: Oh, are you saying the Being that created the universe in eight or six thousand years just by saying "be" couldn't have the power to make Jesus go up to heaven VISIbly so it wouldn't result in the billions of those who "stood firm upon the Injil" and ended beLIEVING Jesus DID go to the cross? What? Is Allah that stupid?
@ItsAmadWorld2 What game is this? I show U how U misread Bible giving specific examples but Instead of telling me why Ur Greco-Roman reading is more accurate than a Jewish one U magic other verses without giving references that contradict JC himself. This means either 1) Ur misreading scripture so that contradictions occur or that 2) Biblical scripture do actually contradict each other. Which one is it?
Be consistent. U still have not provided references for your claims against Jesus. How come?
Why mustI accept JC claimed he authored & finished faith & created all things when Ur claims are Urs - not those of JC. Where does Jesus make these claims? U are in error and cant be bothered to check Ur own assumptions. JC tells us what he will say to people like U when u run to him shouting "Lord Lord". His reply will be "Get away! I do not know you!" You make claims against Jesus and think he will love U for misrepresenting him. Bring your evidence. Where does he say such un-Torah things?
@ItsAmadWorld2 UR in error becoz U know not what U do & say! It isnt for me to prove Im ignoring other scripture but for U to point them out. U claim "other scriptures" exist failing to realize JC didnt say what U claim! Give verse for: "I authored & finished faith & created all?" Reveal these other scriptures & we'll analyse if they're Greco-Roman misreading or readings of the Jewish Messiah (and his Jewish followers). U also err in that U fail to realize "other scriptures" means CONTRADICTIONS
It's the Injil that says Jesus is the "author and finsher of your faith" (a Godly thing to be in charge of, I must say). It's the Injil that says Jesus is the creator of all things "both visible and invisible". Just take the things in quotes and put them into your web browser and it will take you to those scriptures. By the way, where does it say "confirmation" means the contradiction between the Quran and the Book (that makes "people of the book")?
@ItsAmadWorld2 1) Start reading verse context within chapters, within NT & specifically within OT. My reply will be long as U refuse to accept Bible is a Jewish Book. Nothing in it will make sense until u accept that God is ONE (period).
I will begin:
GreekRoman interpreters like u claim 1 Jn1:3,Heb1:2,Heb11:3, Col 1:16 show JC created all things. The “him, whom & word” is assumed as JC even tho some "he and him" arent JC, but Father. This creates contradictions within NT, & between OT & NT.
@ItsAmadWorld2 2) Nothing makes sense in Bible from GrkRmn readings. Read context of whole WORD of God. Stop saying ‘other scripture.’ God (Father) is Creator, Jesus is a MEANS (instrument) for His word to be revealed – same as other Prophets. Read Ur next two verses Col:1:18/19: JC prepares the way for us so that, like him, fullness of Godhead, can dwell in us. Colos 2:8/9 speaks of the Father as the Godhead. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in him (Jesus). JC, like us, is not part of Godhed
@ItsAmadWorld2 3) We'lll be judgd by the man i.e. example of JC/Prophetts). fullness of Godhead is Father & dwellsl in JC as spirit: Acts 10:38 God in spirit, not essence, is in JC. JC is man anointed with HS, same spirit promised to all of us. Get rid of divine Jesus & Bible becomes clear: Read the Book not as a GreekRoman polytheist but as a monotheistic Jew. GOD the Father is the actual Creator and chose HIS WORD to be the WAY or BY which all things are created. So the WORD is the means.
@ItsAmadWorld2 4) As part of the Word Jesus is Heir to the WORD for the spirit dwells in Him. JC promised the spirit to all; thus, the word is in us. Does this mean we are Creators of the universe? No! It means God creates & maintains creation thru His Love for His Loyal Servants. The context of Col: 1:18 is given in Col 1:12:“Giving thanks unto the FATHER, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.” NT PLAINLY says Word MADE flesh. Exactly as Isaiah.
@ItsAmadWorld2 5) God SPOKE, the WORD was MADE, FORMED & CREATED in form of a HUMAN BEING, like U & I. Lay aside GrkRmn interpretations, search the word urself to find out what the Holy Spirit is teaching you. Do not be deceived by interpretations. Read within the context of the whole.
@ItsAmadWorld2 6) Accept the possibility Ur teachers erred when they told u the NT teaches JC was God in Flesh yet still fully man at SAME time, making NO SENSE. Its not taught in Scripture so they alleviated ur doubts by saying it is a Mystery.1 Cor 2:5-16 God asks u come to know Truth not dismiss Him as Mystery.
@ItsAmadWorld2 7) JC as deity originated not from disciples or eyewitnesses who hear his teachings 300 to 500 years after JC left the scene - and thru bloody disagreement. Those who read Scripture thru the Jewish eyes of JC gave their lives to defend the Scripture delivered by JC. Cor 15:23-28 shows JC was always and is always subject to the Father. Read the context 1 Cor 8:6 says,"For unto US there is but ONE God, EVEN THE FATHER..."
@ItsAmadWorld2 If you read the Bible then you would know that Jesus said that son of god is not literal. When the Jews tried to stone him he said "I and my Father are one as my disciples are one with me." Stop reading the Bible as a GreekRoman and start reading it as a Jew (or Sufi Muslim). The Old Testament have sons of God by the tonnes. It even calls Judges gods - this is how the Jews spoke in the past. Without accepting God is One (period) you will never understand the Bible.
Where does Jesus say in the Injil "I and my Father are one as my disciples are one with me"? Even if he said that, I noticed you ignored "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father". You will, no doubt, accuse me of cherry picking if I bring to you things from the Injil and the "Book" that talk of Jesus as if he were the Creator of all things, both visible and invisible, but, I can accuse you of cherry picking also, if I want.
@ItsAmadWorld2 U Part A: U've ignored context. I'll help U: “The Father is in me as I am in you. We all are one (John 17:21): If U believe this literally there are 14 Gods (Father, Son, 12 Disciples). The context is that the purpose of JC is to serve the Father and disciples purpose is same. The puzzle is solved: they're all one in purpose. Keep this in mind in ur reading otherwise nothing in the NT will make sense to U. U have not understood Bible (or Qur'an) due to Ur pagan reading. More ...
eating: (cont): ...Father and disciples purpose is same.
IAM2: Perhaps so. However, can you now explain "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father" now?
eating: The puzzle is solved: they're all one in purpose.
IAM2: Ok. Still, that doesn't solve the other parts of the Injil that show Jesus as Divinity, like Jesus being the "author and finisher of your faith".
eating: Keep this in mind in ur reading otherwise nothing in the NT will make sense to U
ItsAmadWorld2 : (cont): ...solve "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father"? Or, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" IF Jesus is only a prophet like Muslims are forced to believe?
eating: U have not understood Bible (or Qur'an) due to Ur pagan reading.
IAM2: IF I understand the "Book" (which makes People of the Book), I'll see that when it says Jesus is the creator or all things "both visible and invisble"---
I'll see that when it says Jesus is the creator or all things "both visible and invisble", it will mean...what? That WE created all things being that we are ONE with him and God? :)
@ItsAmadWorld2 Again U cling to contradictions for U claim seeing JC is literally seeing God yet Ex33:19-23 says even Moses, who communed with God didnt see glory of God - no man can do this & still live. Again, JC must be read as Mystic Jew (or Sufi Muslim): God is manifest in ALL things but this doesnt mean ALL are God or is God Himself. All things do point to God, theyre signs & proofs of the Creator. JC, "A man appointed by God" was way to God, the path. Stop trying to read NT as a pagan.
What does "creating all things both visible AND invisible" mean to you? By the way, the Injil says Jesus was "made a little lower than the angels". You can see angels and live. Are you saying God doesn't have the power to transform into something lower than the angels to keep you from dying when you look on him?
@ItsAmadWorld2 This is pure speculation & conjecture and anything I, you or your sectarian priests have said on the matter is of no worth. You have misunderstood what the Bible means by Jesus is lower than the Angels: God judges not by race but merit. If U accept JC is lower than Angels it means U accept he is lower than Satan, which Bible claims was an Angel. It is only piety that makes one worthy & not race. Even so, Bible does not say that God became a man. Desist from such errors of reading.
@ItsAmadWorld2 What game is this? I answer Ur point on JC being creator & U jump the issue. This is evidence of Ur errant comprehension. Its Ur own Greek pagan reading of Bible that caused U to claim JC is lower than Angels. Neither Quran, which is the criteria to judge all Scripture, says this nor does the Bible mean it in the context U cited. If U insist on reading Bible as a pagan would U will constantly find inconsistency, contradiction & error. Desist - God is One. Read as a Jew or a Sufi.
@ItsAmadWorld2 U insist on deception! Desist in dishonesty. Did U read all of Colossians or not? As U didnt U lack the context. I'll give U context againt: Neither I nor Bible says JC is creator. Desist reading selectively. Go to Col 1:12: “Give thanks to FATHER that made us to partake of inheritance of saints.” i.e. God creates thru His Love for His Loyal Servants. Now 6 verses later, same Book is Col:1:18 (creation thru JC). So now u know: creation thru His Love for Prophets, saints, etc. OK?
How does God creating "thru His Love for His Loyal Servants" mean Jesus is the "Creator of all things visible and invisible", and the "author and finisher of your faith"?
@ItsAmadWorld2 Part19: I will respond to the meaning of "finisher of Ur faith" in part 28. For now read on: To say U don’t know how JC is related to how Saints & Prophets bring new creation shows U’ve not read Bible (least not in context). JC is one of the Prophets. Now Pay attention to context: “Blessed be God & Father of our Lord JC by his mercy hath begotten us AGAIN to Hope by JC's [assumed] rise from dead (1 Pet1:3). In JC all R made AGAIN– not a first Creation but a regeneration.
@ItsAmadWorld2@ItsAmadWorld2 P20: So what does Bible mean by Regeneration? The Prophets are the Regeneraters of their time. If U think JC was for all time Ur in error. If U say he was then why does Ezekiel 36:25 says “I’ll sprinkle clean water to cleanse U from all Ur impurities.” This is God’s Plan prior to the beginning that allows us Grace thru those he sends. 2 Timothy 1:9 “This grace was given us in JC before time began.” JC for his time. Ezekiel etc for their time. Read Bible in context.
@ItsAmadWorld2 P21: JC says in John 3:5 "In truth, none enters The Kingdom unless born of water & The Sprt." Unless born (or begotten). When Bible says JC is begotten of God it is, within the context of Bible, indicating that JC is sent by God: a Regenerator of HOPE. Thru JC’s church new Hope emanates. This is stated right fter Ur misread JC as visible/invisible creator passage: HOPE/Church brings new creation. A few verses previously God’s Love for Saints etc is grace that gives regeneration.
WHERE does it say in the Injil that 'begotten of God" means just "Regenerator of Hope"? You aren't adding to the "Book", are you? If you are, the "Book" says all the plagues mentioned in the "this Book" will be added unto you.
@ItsAmadWorld2 P22: Do U now see how Colessians speaks of creation? Not as a first physical creation of the invisible/visible but the regeneration of soul/MIND thru grace given to JC (& Prophets, saints etc)? If you still cannot comprehend then read Rom 12:2 “Dont conform any longer to PATTERN of THIS WORLD, but be transformed by the RENEWING of YOUR MIND. Then You’ll find what God's will is.” Try reading as a mystic Jew or Muslim Sufi & the Bible is clearer. Desist in RomanGreek misreadings.
Where does it say in the Injil that Jesus being the creator of all things "both visible and invisible" just means he's a regenerator of souls? By the way, to be a regenerator of souls sounds like a Godly thing to do. Haven't you just "partnered with Allah" by saying Jesus does that?
@ItsAmadWorld2 P23: NT authors thought, spoke and wrote as mystic Jews not Literal Greeks and Romans. JC’s words were lost on practically minded Roman & rationally minded Greeks. Thru JC isn’t isn’t the 1st creation but means NEW outlook – a new way of MIND. We’re not saved coz JC creates visible/invisible world but due to God’s offer to us, thru him, of salvation. Read Titus 3:5 “he saved us … becoz of mercy … thru washing REBIRTH and RENEWAL by the Holy Spirit.”
Where does it say in the Injil that "1st creation" means "new out-look"? Or, is that like asking you for how being the creator of ALL things means NOT the creator of all things, but, just means being a prophet?
@ItsAmadWorld2 P24: Ur GrkRman reading assumes JC’s mission was to claim Himself to be Creator of the physical. This is error. Bible spoke of creation thru JC not to give a doctrine of Trinity for JC never says “I’m Ur Creator”. His mission was to offer God’s grace thru his example. Read James 1:18 “He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.” The context is creation thru JC - a regeneration of MIND not Physical Creation. CONTEXT
@ItsAmadWorld2 P25: Do U now see Colossians does not speak of Creation thru JC as physical creation of world? Do you not see that JC, like other Prophets brings a creation thru regeneration of Mind? If not Quran is right when says the more U try to convince them the more they resist. Read1 Peter 1:23 “For you have been born again (begotten), not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living & enduring word of God.” Creation thru JC is regeneration of MIND/SOUL – not physical. See?
@ItsAmadWorld2 P26: Preposition διά thru him generally denotes working of God thru secondary agencies, as διὰ τοῦ προφήτου (Mat 1:22). The relation of JC to creation is usually expressed by διά (1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2 - Ur invisible/visible passage). This indicates that there is a different relation between Jesus and God to relation. Jesus is not the Creator and so the passage does not mean what Ur GreekRoman reading thinks it does!
If so, can you explain, again, the meaning of "creator of both things visible and invisible"? By the way, again, what does "author and finisher of your faith" mean again? CAN you explain both passages without damning yourself to eternal fire by "performing shirk"?
@ItsAmadWorld2 P27: I'll admit διά is used of both son & FATHER in Heb 2:10 Rom 11:36 & Gal 1:1 - but never in Gospels. As it’s used for both U can erroneously argue διά doesnt lower THE WORD to rank of simple instrument. Even so διά clearly differentiates relation to creation of Father & Son so son cant be Creator. If nothing else you should desist in claiming JC to be One in essence with God. When U've done this you'll realize JC isn't God & ur priests have deceived U in this & other things
@ItsAmadWorld2 CONTEXT: If U read as a Jew U'll know creation is thru word of God (Gen 1:1). God is His own word & all creation is part of His word for He creates all things thru His Word. John 1:1 is authored by a mystic. Possibly a Jewish mystic, or a Greek mystic - nobody knows who the actual author is. If you read like a GreekRoman it will cause you to become a polytheist and you will be lost. Read as a Jew and it is clear. Now I will explain what the Author and Finisher means. Go to p.28.
eating: CONTEXT: If U read as a Jew U'll know creation is thru word of God (Gen 1:1).
IAM2: And, if you read John 1:2, you find out that this Word of God came down and dwelt among men.
eating: God is His own word & all creation is part of His word for He creates all things thru His Word.
IAM2: Sounds like you are performing shirk in the highest degree, because the Injil says Jesus (also the Word of God), created all things both visible and invisible.
@ItsAmadWorld2 If you don't read your own Bible in front of you then you will never understand it. I explained it as it is written. You give no references and merely accept a thesis that is is not even in the English translation of the Greek. Faith has not finished yet! There will be a second coming and then it will be finished according to your own church fathers. You deny the nose on your faith. Another Messenger (Muhamed) can come for Jesu will return. Read in context of whole of Bible.
eating: and merely accept a thesis that is is not even in the English translation of the Greek.
IAM2: You should get a Young's Analytical Concordance to The Bible. You'd change your mind, IF you were truthful with yourself.
eating: Faith has not finished yet!
IAM2: Right, and YOU say it ends when Jesus actually "disappoints faith" by rejecting you for "standing firm upon the Injil" , you kow, believing what the Injil preaches (i.e.) Jesus not only dying on the cross for the sins of the
@ItsAmadWorld2 What? Do you think I am quoting somebody else? For your information p.28 is asking you to go to my PART 28 comment. Please pay attention.
What do you mean the Jews are the worst of people? Prove your statement as it is from you and not from the Quran! Bring your evidence and desist in your deception. Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
You neither have read the Qur'an, Bible, nor my comments to you. You are in error yet want to remain so
IAM2: IF I present the scriptures, won't you just treat them like you did with Qur'an 2:106 saying there IS no abrogation in the Qur'an? Say, who is the one doing deception here? Well, you asked for it, so I'll give you a couple, ok?
Quran 5:82: YUSUFALI: Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and ha
IAM2: (cont) ...learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
PICKTHAL: Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
SHAKIR: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in
SHAKIR: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
Quran 98.006
YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men." What does "worst of creatures" mean to you? Does that not include hypocrites? Oh by the way, "I'm a Christian". Get it?
eating: Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
IAM2: Didn't Mr. (pbuh) say the Qur'an was from God?
eating: You neither have read the Qur'an, Bible, nor my comments to you.
IAM2: Anyone who looks at this thread can see that you have lied again. Clearly my responses to you are proof that I have atLEAST done that with the latter.
eating: You are in error yet want to remain so
IAM2: And, if I'm not? What's that mean to you? Want to guess?
@ItsAmadWorld2 Ur Logic is flawed. If Bible is written by mystics then read it as such and not as a practically minded Roman or Rationally minded Greek - you readily accept SHIRK, as did your church Fathers. U R in Error. Bible never says it was authored by God coz it is not in the original language of its authors. Find the original Aramaic/Hebrew not the second hand Greek. Where have your church fathers hidden them? This is why the Qur'an is given to you in a Semitic tongue to be the criteria.
IAM2: Give examples so people won't think you are lying furhter like you did when saying therw is no abrogation in the Qur'an.
eating: If Bible is written by mystics then read it as such and not as a practically minded Roman or Rationally minded Greek -
IAM2: If you read the "clear signs handed down", Allah says He wrote the "Book" (Bible). Oh, and the "clear signs" say Allah's words can't be changed nor altered. What do you think THAT means?
IAM2: Haven't heard of the "Dead Sea Scrolls"? YOu should. You will see that LITTLE has changed in meaning from the time of the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Old Testament of THIS day. Do you understand what that means to Islam and all cults that say God's Word HAS been changed and altered? Do you dare guess?
eating: Find the original Aramaic/Hebrew not the second hand Greek.
IAM2: I have. Check out the "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible".
eating: Where have your church fathers hidden them?
IAM2: They haven't. A HUGE portion of them were found inside the "Dead Sea Scrolls" showing NO change in meaning, and, it looks like the Jordan Codices show there is NO change with the New Testament as well.
eating: This is why the Qur'an is given to you in a Semitic tongue to be the criteria.
IAM2: INJIL (a word in the Quran) is "Semitic word"? Think again.
@ItsAmadWorld2 In Quran Jesu is a word from God. In John Jesu is God’s words. Context is Genesis 1:1: God SPEAKS creation into being. It means we’re all part of His word. In Jesu dwells fulness of Godhead. Notice Colossians 2:10 Paul says Christians are part of Godhead. It isn’t meant as Shirk but is how GrekoRomans want to read it even tho JC gives CONTEXT; saying the righteous are called GODS so READ IN CONTEXT. It isn’t shirk but the way MYSTICS speak. Desist in Ur deception. READ IN CONTEXT.
IAM2: Wow, so you are partnering all CHRISTIANS with God now. Ouch...IF Islam is true.
eating: It isn’t meant as Shirk but is how GrekoRomans want to read it even tho JC gives CONTEXT; saying the righteous are called GODS so READ IN CONTEXT.
IAM2: Where does it say that the RIGHTEOUS are called "Gods"? I notice you put it with a capital G, not as it is in the Injil "gods". How come? You don't see that as shirk, DO you, by putting as BIG g "Gods"? :)
IAM2: Sounds like you have a lot of faith in mystics. Well, when you have it as a capital G for "Gods", sounds like YOU are doing the shirking.
eating: Desist in Ur deception. READ IN CONTEXT.
IAM2: And believe I'm a God? Who is the one shirking here? IF you read it in context, the "gods" die and there is NO mention of them creating all things visible and invisible like Jesus is said to have done. NO mention of them being the "author
@ItsAmadWorld2 P28 First, where R the Aramaic words of JC? They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fathers. This means we dont know what JC actually said in Original Aramaic INJIL! But lets read what's in the Greek & assume they're accurate. If U Read “our faith” (τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν) it simply means Founder of Christianity– nothing else. But this is error as it narrows scope of “oldest Greek” manuscripts which says “faith” not 'our faith
eatingeatingeating: First, where R the Aramaic words of JC?
IAM2: When he called the Injil "The Injil"? Wait, "Injil" is the Arab word of "Gospel", which is Greek for "Good News". Strange that Jesus was handed down a GREEk word, don't you think? Doesn't the Qur'an say prophets are only given books in their own language to preach to their own people? Shouldn't the Injil have been called something else?
eating: They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fath
eating: They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fathers.
IAM2: If so, then how come Quran 5:68 and 10:94 weren't abrogated by Quran 2:106? How come all that "confirmation and reminding" the Qur'an says it does with "before Scriptures" (Bible), wasn't abrogated to say it DOESN'T confirm SQUAT with the Bible?
eating: This means we dont know what JC actually said in Original Aramaic INJIL!
IAM2: So, to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:68) is a lie? How
IAM2: So, to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:68) is a lie? How come I'm not surprised?
eating: But lets read what's in the Greek & assume they're accurate. If U Read “our faith” (τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν) it simply means Founder of Christianity– nothing else.
IAM2: And that means?
eating: But this is error as it narrows scope of “oldest Greek” manuscripts which says “faith” not 'our faith
IAM2: And this means that the Quran is right to "stand firm upon the In
@ItsAmadWorld2 Stand firm upon the Injil... YES! YES! Don't say God is THREE! There's no such concept in the Bible. Desist in your deception. Read as a Jew or a Sufi Muslim and you will see that as Jesus himself says: Scripture says all Israel is GOD but this does not mean all Israelites share the essence of God. It is as the Word of God, as Righteous people that people are gods and have fullness of Godhead. Desist in your cherry picking and Read in Context. Yes! Stand firm by reading as a Jew!
@ItsAmadWorld2 You not only rewrite the Bible, the Quran, my comments but you also dare to rewrite history. The Jews were being protected in Islam when all over the world they were being expelled and burnt in their synagogues. Do not confuse recent history with history as a whole. You have proven that you no regard for history and so do not know that within the CONTEXT of Bible GOD IS ONE, and to call a person God means they lead the people not sharing God's essence. Go back to JOHN 10:34-36):
@ItsAmadWorld2 U not only rewrite BIBLE but change my words. Jews dont share God's essence. Only errant Romans assume SON OF GOD = God THE SON . Desist in error. All of Israel is called "God's son” in Exodos. Jewish literature makes leaders, judges, kings & princes "sons of God" i.e. lieutenants of God. David in Psalm 2:7 (with coming Christ) is Titled Son of God. “All led by Spirit are sons of God” (Rom 8:14). Be reminded of JC reply when accused of claiming divinity: He denied it ... read on:
@ItsAmadWorld2 "Jesus answered them [THOSE LIKE YOU WHO THOUGHT HE CLAIMED DIVINITY]], 'Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (JOHN 10:34-36)" You have JC's own words. Calling him God does not mean God so read as a Jew:
@ItsAmadWorld2 Its U who claims that Jesus is God. Its U who claims the nonsense of Trinity is in the Bible when you cannot even bring one passage stating there are Three in Heaven and these Three are One! Its you who claims the Qur'an says the Bible is correct in viewing God as Three in One when the Bible has no such passage: So again provide your evidence from the Bible or DESIST in DECEPTION. Its you who writes this into the BOOK and then claims it is from GOD. Woe to the lies of the Scribes!
@eatingeatingeating So where does the Bible say that God is Three in One? You have no evidence! Woe to you who deceive and write the Book with your own pen and claim it is from God! Show the verse !!! You cannot! No wonder Christ will end faith by saying to you "Be gone from me! I do not know you!!" Provide your evidence or desist in the claim that God is Three in One.
@ItsAmadWorld2 Read in Context and all will be clear. There is no abrogation in the Quran but development form a primitive way to a sophisticated way. All new Muslims can make such a transformation in a steady manner. The verse on abrogation states "Even if We abrogate...", which means if should ever should be abrogated and not that it is. We do stand firm upon the Injil for the Injil is understood by One-God Oneness Unitarian Christians better than Trinitarians who add and subtract to it.
eating: Read in Context and all will be clear. There is no abrogation in the Quran
IAM2: So Qur'an 2:106 and another scripture about Allah abrogating and replacing scriptures with better scriptures are lying? How come that doesn't surprise me.
eating: but development form a primitive way to a sophisticated way.
IAM2: Where does it say that with Quran 2:106?
eating: All new Muslims can make such a transformation in a steady manner.
eating: The verse on abrogation states "Even if We abrogate...", which means if should ever should be abrogated and not that it is.
IAM2: No, it actually says "Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it..." what else are you taqqyia-ing (lying for Allah) about?
eating: We do stand firm upon the Injil for the Injil is understood by One-God Oneness Unitarian Christians better than Trinitarians who add and subtract to it.
@ItsAmadWorld2 Bring this passage from the Bible. You again lie! Desist in your deception. Where does the Bible say "BUT" after it makes the assertion "GOD IS ONE." Bring the passage from the Bible or desist in your deception. All you have are the misread interpretations of your church fathers who admitted that they did not understand the HOLY WORDS. Bring the passage of THREE IN ONE or accept your errant reading!
@ItsAmadWorld2 I accept your interpretation which does not claim that the BOOK is abrogated. Where in your interpretation does it say the BOOK is abrogated. It is you who cannot read in context who is lying. There is no such concept as lying for Allah. This is again your effort to rewrite the BOOK. Desist! Woe to the lying pens of the scribes. Where does it actually say that abrogation has occurred within the BOOK. It is only given as a possibility. Learn to read in context.
@ItsAmadWorld2 2:106 says "Except if abrogation occurs we will bring a better scripture." This was in answer to questions about what will happen if the BOOK was lost as the original Bible, Gospels etc were lost. The answer was that a better Book will replace the old ones. This is the context. It does not mean that the Book will be abrogated but what will come in its place if it were abrogated. Those who claim the Qur'an is abrogated are in error for they do not read in context of the Revelation.
"YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? "
@ItsAmadWorld2 P29 Reading out of context it means JC initiated all Faith which is God’s role alone. So let us read in context. Go to the previous verse which speaks of Greek games & translate the Greek properly for Author in the Greek is not meant as The Originator. It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”, “Perfecter” & “Faith” (absolutely not ‘our faith’).
eating: P29 Reading out of context it means JC initiated all Faith which is God’s role alone.
IAM2: Where does it say that in the Injil (New Testament)?
eating" So let us read in context. Go to the previous verse which speaks of Greek games & translate the Greek properly for Author in the Greek is not meant as The Originator.
IAM2: How about it just meaning what it means, "author"?
eating: It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”,
eating: It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”, “Perfecter” & “Faith” (absolutely not ‘our faith’).
IAM2: Even if this isn't taqqiya (lying for Allah) here, I don't see how this removes the divinity of Jesus here.
@ItsAmadWorld2 There is no such thing as lying for Allah! Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God. Provide the verse and stop deceiving people. I can show you where you are given permission to deceive in your version of the Bible but there is no such equivalent in the Qur'an. Provide the verse of lying for Allah from the Qur'an. You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
eating: There is no such thing as lying for Allah!
IAM2 How about Qur'an 3:28, 16:106 and Muhammad saying "war is deceit"? Aren't THOSE "lying for Allah"?
eating: Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
IAM2: Aren't you doing that?
eating: Provide the verse and stop deceiving people.
IAM2: The Qur'an never says "lie for Allah". It just has those scriptures I mentioned that ALLOWS you to lie for Allah...or, really, just lie, period...which you
IAM2: The Qur'an never says "lie for Allah". It just has those scriptures I mentioned that ALLOWS you to lie for Allah...or, really, just lie, period...which you have done already and very clearly by saying that the the Qur'an doesn't have abrogation in it.
eating: I can show you where you are given permission to deceive in your version of the Bible but there is no such equivalent in the Qur'an.
IAM2: Provide them. In the process, you will probably discover that some people, even men
IAM2: Provide them. In the process, you will probably discover that some people, even men of God, have been rewarded for their deceit, but, you will NEVER see God saying it's ok to lie NOR deceive, like you do with Qur'an 3:28 and 16:106, along with Mr. (pbuh) saying "war is deceit". To say the Qur'an doesn't have abrogation in it, I feel, means you are probably already aware of those scriptures from the Qur'an, along with that saying from the Hadith.
eating: Provide the verse of lying for Allah from the Qur'an.
IAM2: It doesn't say "lying for Allah". Taqqiya, really, means "guarding", or "hiding". However, WITH Qur'an 3:28 and 16:106, along with "war is deceit", a Muslim can lie, and, make up stuff. SAY stuff that isn't even there. A good example of taqqiya is a Muslim dressing up like a Rabbi or pregnant woman strapped up with a bomb before stepping onto a bus, or, shaving off one's beard, going to a bar, before flying a plane into
IAM2: (cont): a good example of taqqiya is a Muslim dressing up like a Rabbi or pregnant woman strapped up with a bomb before stepping onto a bus, or, shaving off one's beard, going to a bar, before flying a plane into a building filled with those they view as NOT innocent because they don't pull out prayer rugs and stick their patooties up in the air, five times a day.
eating: You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
IAM2: Well, we'll let people read this thread and see if that
IAM2: (cont) before flying a plane into a building filled with those they view as NOT innocent because they don't pull out prayer rugs and stick their patooties up in the air, five times a day.
eating: You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
IAM2: Well, we'll let people read this thread and see if that's true, ok? :)
@ItsAmadWorld2 This is nonsense. Pay attention to the Quran. Do not read the thread - give the verse, give the passage, read in CONTEXT. You will find more justification for lying in the Bible than in the Qur'an. I have given the passages. Why do you insist on deception. Be a Good Christian and stop trying to be a BAD MUSLIM. Your deception will only cause Christ to disown you and Muhamed to pity you. Woe to lying pens of scribes who write the Book with their own pen and say it is God's thread!
@ItsAmadWorld2 Now you admit your deception. If it does not mean lying for God then stop saying it does. Check what you say from now on or you will be lost and the one you call Lord will disown you and will not intercede on your behalf. Transform your mind and stop giving examples from outside the Quran. Where are such things allowed. You are blind: find the verse and desist in deception. The Quran does not say "DECEIVE" - but read Bible and you will find the pen of your scribes allowing lies.
@ItsAmadWorld2 i have now given you plenty of examples where the lying pen of your scribes has God allowing lies to succeed. Or would you like to change your mind and accept that "War is deception." Oh ItsAmadWorld2 you are not only mad but blind for you have not read the Book, and if you have then much worse, you have misread. Read in context and begin to understand why "War is deceit!" Now can you see how you mock the Bible, which the Quran upholds and which you belittle. Desist in deception.
@ItsAmadWorld2 Again you write the Book with your hands and claim it is from God. You deceive but you only mock yourself. Find me where the Qur'an says "Lie for Allah"? Where are those words? Nowhere! Look at how you deceive!!! Jesus will say to you "Be Gone! I do not know you!!" Bring the passage immediately oh you deceiver "Lie for God!!! Where is are these words ???????????????????????????????????
IF what I'm doing is "writing the Book with my own hands", how does that mean the Bible is corrupted? DON'T Muslims say that THAT means the Bible is corrupted because of "writing the Book" with their own hands? IF I've just done that, how does that make the Bible corrupted? Are you not saying that the Bible is NOT corrupted, but, just LIED about IF I've lied?
@ItsAmadWorld2 You are not writing the Bible but rewriting the BOOK with your own interpretation. The Bible has been written but it has been hidden and lost. All that remains is the Greek interpretation but you are adding and subtracting and misquoting. Desist! You know your own deception and you know that the one you call LORD will disown you for this deception. Desist.
@ItsAmadWorld2 “Lie for God” isnt in Quran but its in Bible. I can find such words & cite out of context like U but nothing like it is in Quran. Here is Bible passage: Paul says its Ok to lie for God: “Someone might argue, 'If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increase his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?' Why not say -as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim we say -- 'Lets do evil so good results? Their condemnation is deserved." Romans 3:1-8
@ItsAmadWorld2 You can't find the words "lie for God" in Quran yet you say you can. Why? JC will say "I don't know U." Why don’t u hypocrites quote parts of Bible in which the lying pen of the scribes gives permission to lie in the name of God? Genesis 2:17 “of tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Yet Adam did not die on “the day” but at ripe old age of 930. The lying pen of the scribes accuse God of lying!
@ItsAmadWorld2 Look to the Bible for granting permission to lie and not to the Qur'an. Where is there is an example such as the ones I've given. Here is another: Exodus 3:18 The lying pen of the scribes has Moses beseeching Pharaoh to allow “3 days' journey into wilderness, that we may sacrifice to our God.” Lie: Moses wasn’t to leave Egypt forever, not just three days. Why did the pen of the Bible writers think it was OK for Moses to deceive. Could it be because "War is deception!" ?
The lying pen of the scribes has God concoct lies against Ahab &/ Prophets: “behold the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets.”
1 Samuel 16:1-3 God told Samuel to lie to Saul about visiting Jesse.
Joshua 2:2 The king of Jericho was told by Rahab that she didn’t know where the Israelite spies had gone when she had hidden them herself yet she is praised in John 18: 20. Why does Bible allow lying? Could it be because "War is deception!"
@ItsAmadWorld2 In war there is deceit! Yes WAR IS DECEIT! How does this mean Muslims should lie? The Qur'an also says be of the righteous. It calls Muslims faithful and truthful. You are reading out of context and are a deceiver. Do you know what WAR means? You have no idea what is being meant by war. The Quran says engage in polite debate with others - WAR is something else! If you cannot see how you are a deceiver then you are truly blind. Remember Christ will say: "Be gone! I do not know you!
@ItsAmadWorld2 It is you who lie. Bring the verse about lying for Allah!!!!! It is you who writes the Book with your lying pen and makes claims it is from God. You are the proof of corrupt reading for your claims are either interpretations, misreadings or down right unsubstantiated.
@ItsAmadWorld2 Of course it does not! Jesus will mediate and will finish FAITH. You are still misquoting for the word "OUR FAITH" is not in the Bible, neither does the word "YOUR FAITH" exist in the originals. The BIBLE can be read as Jesus being the finisher of FAITH (absolute faith, not your faith). The last words on the day of judgement will be that of Jesus for he will reply, when the Deceivers ask him to open the door: "Be gone from me. I do not know you!" Read the Bible correctly: "FAITH."
@ItsAmadWorld2 P30 The Bible is clear that JC is not author or originator of faith since the faith here treated existed and worked before JC. JC is leader of faith, in that he is the perfect model of faith. His example is for all time, which does not mean he is the only model. Muhamed, who follows JC’s example in submission to God, is also a perfect model. This is in line with Scripture and makes sense. Nothing will make sense in the Bible by associating Jesus with God. Always CONTEXT!
eating: P30 The Bible is clear that JC is not author or originator of faith since the faith here treated existed and worked before JC.
IAM2: Even though the Injil SAYS he was? Talk about looking at a fire and say it's not a fire. But, contrary to Muslim thinking, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so.
eating: JC is leader of faith,
Iam2: Again, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so. The Injil clearly says Jesus is the "author (ok, beginner) and finisher (ender) of your faith."
Iam2: Again, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so. The Injil clearly says Jesus is the "author (ok, beginner) and finisher (ender) of your faith." Same thing as "author and finisher of your faith".
eating: in that he is the perfect model of faith.
IAM2: And how do you explain "completer" or "ender" of your faith?
eating: His example is for all time, which does not mean he is the only model.
IAM2: How is a model a "beginner and ender" of your faith? That model sure sounds Godly.
eating: Muhamed, who follows JC’s example in submission to God, is also a perfect model.
IAM2: How is Muhammad an "author and finisher of your faith"? Isn't Muhammad dead? But, since "my redeemer liveth", Jesus CAN be the author and finisher of my faith. I bet you don't see that as significant, huh?
eating: This is in line with Scripture and makes sense.
IAM2: Not if you obey Quran 5:68 and "stand firm upon the Injil".
eating: Nothing will make sense in the Bible by associating Jesus
@ItsAmadWorld2 I stand up for the Bible for I find no contradiction between the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT in terms of the concept of God. The Christian and Jew disagree on the concept of God but the Muslim and Jew agree. It is you who have not stood up for the Bible. All Muslims and Jews know God is one. Desist in deception. Read as a Jewish mystic or Sufi Muslim and you will understand the Bible.
eating: YES! Stand firm upon the Injil and stop saying THREE. The Injil says no such thing.
IAM2: And, if it does? What's that mean about the Qur'an? Does that not mean Allah is MORE than just a deceiver IF the Qur'an is true, but, that Old Al is a diabolical deceiver to the highest degree for only making it APPEAR that Jesus went to the cross, and telling us to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:66-68) that says Jesus DID go to the cross?
@ItsAmadWorld2 The Qur'an does not have examples where God allows lying to go unpunished but I have shown you many places where the lying pen of scribes have God allowing liars to be rewarded. It is far more likely that the lying pens of your scribes are deceiving you and causing you to deceive others than for the Quran to be deceiving me. Read in context and desist in your deception.
@ItsAmadWorld2 As the Bible does not say GOD IS THREE IN ONE I stand firm upon the Bible. Show me where the BIBLE says GOD IS THREE IN ONE PERSON and I will yield. You cannot but you continue to make comments on threads that you do not even understand and cannot read. Desist. It does not matter to FAITH if Jesus died or did not die on cross for the Quran says that people were deceived by the Romans on the matter. What matters to FAITH is the concept of God. This is what all must be firm upon
@ItsAmadWorld2 Muhammed is dead and his mission is complete. The Quran says DEEN (Religion, the way of life for the faithful) is completed with the Qur'an. Faith can not be complete until the end of time. The example of Jesus and Muhammed are examples for us but that is not the end of faith. Faith will be complete when JC completes his mission and testifies he did not claim divinity and disowns those who call him God.,
eating: By looking at role models we see how to behave.
IAM2: So, marry a six year old, have sex with her when she's nine? Kill those who leave Islam, raid caravans? Drink sewer water believing it's NOT contaminated, because, well, it's water and water is "not defiled"? How come I think you won't drink sewer water or eat poison after eating seven ajwa dates in the morning? How come?
eating: Simple. We see how to act in every context.
IAM2: If so, would you marry a six year old, have sex with her when she was nine, then say "I divorce you" three times so you can get another one? You think that's good advice?
eating: From beginning to end.
IAM2: How come I have a feeling you'd have second thoughts about eating a bowl of poison mushrooms even IF you ate seven dates that morning to prove Muhammad true about dates protecting all day from both magic and poison? Want to guess?
@ItsAmadWorld2 None of this is in the Quran. Drinking poison is in the Bible. Having snakes bite you for your faith is in the Bible. You are reading the wrong Book. Taking all virgins as brides after a raid is in the Bible not in the Quran. Find the verses in the Quran first in which these are stated - you will not be able to - but you will find them clearly written in the Bible because the lying pen of the scribes have performed their deception.
@ItsAmadWorld2 Not all Muslims believe this hadith so stick to the Quran. You are a deceiver! Desist in citing hadith without informing us of all the opinions from all the schools. The only thing that all Muslims accept is the Quran. The Shias do not accept Aisha was 6. Many Sunnis have abandoned this view. You are living in a vacuum and cannot see that it is the Quran that is the CRITERIA to judge hadith, the criteria to judge Bible, the Criteria to judge all previous revelations. Pay attention
@ItsAmadWorld2 You are not reading the evidence. The Greek does not mean Author of a physical creation but a judge in the a race of faith. We are invited into the Church, into the Faith, into a new way of thinking. This is the new Creation. Read in context and desist in deceiving yourself. You are insisting on a restricted understanding of one single cherry picked verse that you bring out of context. Nothing in the Bible supports your interpretation. Read in context.
eating: Read in context and desist in deceiving yourself.
IAM2: How do you NOT know that YOU might be deceiving yourself by following after a "god" that would only make it APPEAR that Jesus would go to the cross to cause damnation for all those who'd obey Quran 5:68 and "stand firm upon the Injil"? HOW do you know you aren't being deceived and WON'T get 72 virgins with patooties that are way WAY larger than your palm tree sized penis in jennah (according to the Hadith)?
IAM2: (cont): Are you SURE you will get 300 "eternally fresh, chased, beautfiul boys" to "feed you grapes" on reclining pillows IF you "kill and and are killed in the cause of Allah" (Qur'an 9:111)? Are you sure YOU aren't being deceived? HOW can you be certain when Muhammad says that the sun, when it sets, not only "runs to a resting place" but, "asks/seeks permission to RISE again"? YOU think the sun needs to "ask/seek" such a thing when it's the EARTH that is orbitting the sun? Be truth
@ItsAmadWorld2 It is you who cherry picks and cites out of context, mixes hadith with Qur'an, makes up passages that does not exist, claims it is the Qur'an that allows lying when it is obvious that the Bible is more prone to such a claim. You have the nerve to accuse me when it is you who is the DECEIVER! How blind and how Lost!!!
1)U didnt support UR claim JC "authored & finished faith & created all things"-How come?
2)Instead U change subject. How come?
3)JC was Jew! U insist reading him as a Greco-Roman! How come?
4)Not all Jews wanted him dead. State apparatus built by Rome & Jewish allies were threatened so created a scenario. Quran says IT (not Allah) was made to APPEAR so. How come people make conjecture?
5)Q doesnt say JC taken to Allah during this scene.
6)Show verse on Allah's partner.
Simply put: U R in error!
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@eatingeatingeating: 1)U didnt support UR claim JC "authored & finished faith & created all things"-How come?
Ram: I wasn't trying to. I was just asking why YOU avoided quoting those scriptures. Guess who is trying to change the subject here?
eating: 2)Instead U change subject. How come?
Ram: How am I changing the subject. I noticed you were avoiding other scriptures in your arguement of how Jesus is not special, and, it made me produce other scriptures which, of course, I knew you w
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
Ram: (cont): knew you wouldn't like. Again, guess who is changing the subject here?
eating: 3)JC was Jew! U insist reading him as a Greco-Roman! How come?
Ram: IF being focussed on scriptures from the Injil that show divinity of Jesus is Greco-Roman thinking, then call me El Greco.
eating: 4)Not all Jews wanted him dead.
Ram: So?
eating: State apparatus built by Rome & Jewish allies were threatened so created a scenario.
Ram: A scenario that finally made the Torah (which is
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
Ram: (cont): (which is supposed to be Allah's words), to make sense, true?
eating: Quran says IT (not Allah) was made to APPEAR so.
Ram: Oh, are you saying the Being that created the universe in eight or six thousand years just by saying "be" couldn't have the power to make Jesus go up to heaven VISIbly so it wouldn't result in the billions of those who "stood firm upon the Injil" and ended beLIEVING Jesus DID go to the cross? What? Is Allah that stupid?
eating: How come people make c
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
eating: How come people make conjecture?
Ram: Because they are creative and have a mind to think and question things, like YOU are doing with me.
eating: 5)Q doesnt say JC taken to Allah during this scene.
Ram: You need to read Al Qur'an. The Qur'an says he was.
eating: 6)Show verse on Allah's partner.
Ram: What does the word "infer" mean to you?
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 What game is this? I show U how U misread Bible giving specific examples but Instead of telling me why Ur Greco-Roman reading is more accurate than a Jewish one U magic other verses without giving references that contradict JC himself. This means either 1) Ur misreading scripture so that contradictions occur or that 2) Biblical scripture do actually contradict each other. Which one is it?
Be consistent. U still have not provided references for your claims against Jesus. How come?
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
Why mustI accept JC claimed he authored & finished faith & created all things when Ur claims are Urs - not those of JC. Where does Jesus make these claims? U are in error and cant be bothered to check Ur own assumptions. JC tells us what he will say to people like U when u run to him shouting "Lord Lord". His reply will be "Get away! I do not know you!" You make claims against Jesus and think he will love U for misrepresenting him. Bring your evidence. Where does he say such un-Torah things?
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 UR in error becoz U know not what U do & say! It isnt for me to prove Im ignoring other scripture but for U to point them out. U claim "other scriptures" exist failing to realize JC didnt say what U claim! Give verse for: "I authored & finished faith & created all?" Reveal these other scriptures & we'll analyse if they're Greco-Roman misreading or readings of the Jewish Messiah (and his Jewish followers). U also err in that U fail to realize "other scriptures" means CONTRADICTIONS
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
It's the Injil that says Jesus is the "author and finsher of your faith" (a Godly thing to be in charge of, I must say). It's the Injil that says Jesus is the creator of all things "both visible and invisible". Just take the things in quotes and put them into your web browser and it will take you to those scriptures. By the way, where does it say "confirmation" means the contradiction between the Quran and the Book (that makes "people of the book")?
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 1) Start reading verse context within chapters, within NT & specifically within OT. My reply will be long as U refuse to accept Bible is a Jewish Book. Nothing in it will make sense until u accept that God is ONE (period).
I will begin:
GreekRoman interpreters like u claim 1 Jn1:3,Heb1:2,Heb11:3, Col 1:16 show JC created all things. The “him, whom & word” is assumed as JC even tho some "he and him" arent JC, but Father. This creates contradictions within NT, & between OT & NT.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 2) Nothing makes sense in Bible from GrkRmn readings. Read context of whole WORD of God. Stop saying ‘other scripture.’ God (Father) is Creator, Jesus is a MEANS (instrument) for His word to be revealed – same as other Prophets. Read Ur next two verses Col:1:18/19: JC prepares the way for us so that, like him, fullness of Godhead, can dwell in us. Colos 2:8/9 speaks of the Father as the Godhead. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in him (Jesus). JC, like us, is not part of Godhed
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 3) We'lll be judgd by the man i.e. example of JC/Prophetts). fullness of Godhead is Father & dwellsl in JC as spirit: Acts 10:38 God in spirit, not essence, is in JC. JC is man anointed with HS, same spirit promised to all of us. Get rid of divine Jesus & Bible becomes clear: Read the Book not as a GreekRoman polytheist but as a monotheistic Jew. GOD the Father is the actual Creator and chose HIS WORD to be the WAY or BY which all things are created. So the WORD is the means.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 4) As part of the Word Jesus is Heir to the WORD for the spirit dwells in Him. JC promised the spirit to all; thus, the word is in us. Does this mean we are Creators of the universe? No! It means God creates & maintains creation thru His Love for His Loyal Servants. The context of Col: 1:18 is given in Col 1:12:“Giving thanks unto the FATHER, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.” NT PLAINLY says Word MADE flesh. Exactly as Isaiah.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 5) God SPOKE, the WORD was MADE, FORMED & CREATED in form of a HUMAN BEING, like U & I. Lay aside GrkRmn interpretations, search the word urself to find out what the Holy Spirit is teaching you. Do not be deceived by interpretations. Read within the context of the whole.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 6) Accept the possibility Ur teachers erred when they told u the NT teaches JC was God in Flesh yet still fully man at SAME time, making NO SENSE. Its not taught in Scripture so they alleviated ur doubts by saying it is a Mystery.1 Cor 2:5-16 God asks u come to know Truth not dismiss Him as Mystery.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 7) JC as deity originated not from disciples or eyewitnesses who hear his teachings 300 to 500 years after JC left the scene - and thru bloody disagreement. Those who read Scripture thru the Jewish eyes of JC gave their lives to defend the Scripture delivered by JC. Cor 15:23-28 shows JC was always and is always subject to the Father. Read the context 1 Cor 8:6 says,"For unto US there is but ONE God, EVEN THE FATHER..."
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
I bet you only believe those parts of the Injil that have Jesus calling himself the "son of man", true?
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 If you read the Bible then you would know that Jesus said that son of god is not literal. When the Jews tried to stone him he said "I and my Father are one as my disciples are one with me." Stop reading the Bible as a GreekRoman and start reading it as a Jew (or Sufi Muslim). The Old Testament have sons of God by the tonnes. It even calls Judges gods - this is how the Jews spoke in the past. Without accepting God is One (period) you will never understand the Bible.
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
Where does Jesus say in the Injil "I and my Father are one as my disciples are one with me"? Even if he said that, I noticed you ignored "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father". You will, no doubt, accuse me of cherry picking if I bring to you things from the Injil and the "Book" that talk of Jesus as if he were the Creator of all things, both visible and invisible, but, I can accuse you of cherry picking also, if I want.
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 U Part A: U've ignored context. I'll help U: “The Father is in me as I am in you. We all are one (John 17:21): If U believe this literally there are 14 Gods (Father, Son, 12 Disciples). The context is that the purpose of JC is to serve the Father and disciples purpose is same. The puzzle is solved: they're all one in purpose. Keep this in mind in ur reading otherwise nothing in the NT will make sense to U. U have not understood Bible (or Qur'an) due to Ur pagan reading. More ...
eatingeatingeating 7 months ago
eatingeating: U Part A: U've ignored context.
IAM2: Oh?
eating: I'll help U:
IAM2: Go for it.
eating: “The Father is in me as I am in you. We all are one (John 17:21):
IAM2: Ok, I am convinced. But, I see that you are still ignoring "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father". How come?
eatinng: If U believe this literally there are 14 Gods (Father, Son, 12 Disciples).
IAM2: True.
eating: The context is that the purpose of JC is to serve the Father
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
eating: (cont): ...Father and disciples purpose is same.
IAM2: Perhaps so. However, can you now explain "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father" now?
eating: The puzzle is solved: they're all one in purpose.
IAM2: Ok. Still, that doesn't solve the other parts of the Injil that show Jesus as Divinity, like Jesus being the "author and finisher of your faith".
eating: Keep this in mind in ur reading otherwise nothing in the NT will make sense to U
IAM2: Really. How does it solve
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
ItsAmadWorld2 : (cont): ...solve "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father"? Or, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" IF Jesus is only a prophet like Muslims are forced to believe?
eating: U have not understood Bible (or Qur'an) due to Ur pagan reading.
IAM2: IF I understand the "Book" (which makes People of the Book), I'll see that when it says Jesus is the creator or all things "both visible and invisble"---
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
I'll see that when it says Jesus is the creator or all things "both visible and invisble", it will mean...what? That WE created all things being that we are ONE with him and God? :)
ItsAmadWorld2 7 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Again U cling to contradictions for U claim seeing JC is literally seeing God yet Ex33:19-23 says even Moses, who communed with God didnt see glory of God - no man can do this & still live. Again, JC must be read as Mystic Jew (or Sufi Muslim): God is manifest in ALL things but this doesnt mean ALL are God or is God Himself. All things do point to God, theyre signs & proofs of the Creator. JC, "A man appointed by God" was way to God, the path. Stop trying to read NT as a pagan.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
What does "creating all things both visible AND invisible" mean to you? By the way, the Injil says Jesus was "made a little lower than the angels". You can see angels and live. Are you saying God doesn't have the power to transform into something lower than the angels to keep you from dying when you look on him?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 This is pure speculation & conjecture and anything I, you or your sectarian priests have said on the matter is of no worth. You have misunderstood what the Bible means by Jesus is lower than the Angels: God judges not by race but merit. If U accept JC is lower than Angels it means U accept he is lower than Satan, which Bible claims was an Angel. It is only piety that makes one worthy & not race. Even so, Bible does not say that God became a man. Desist from such errors of reading.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
I bet you think I believe Jesus is STILL lower than the angels, true?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 What game is this? I answer Ur point on JC being creator & U jump the issue. This is evidence of Ur errant comprehension. Its Ur own Greek pagan reading of Bible that caused U to claim JC is lower than Angels. Neither Quran, which is the criteria to judge all Scripture, says this nor does the Bible mean it in the context U cited. If U insist on reading Bible as a pagan would U will constantly find inconsistency, contradiction & error. Desist - God is One. Read as a Jew or a Sufi.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
Did you, or, did you not, say that Allah used Jesus to create all things?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 U insist on deception! Desist in dishonesty. Did U read all of Colossians or not? As U didnt U lack the context. I'll give U context againt: Neither I nor Bible says JC is creator. Desist reading selectively. Go to Col 1:12: “Give thanks to FATHER that made us to partake of inheritance of saints.” i.e. God creates thru His Love for His Loyal Servants. Now 6 verses later, same Book is Col:1:18 (creation thru JC). So now u know: creation thru His Love for Prophets, saints, etc. OK?
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
How does God creating "thru His Love for His Loyal Servants" mean Jesus is the "Creator of all things visible and invisible", and the "author and finisher of your faith"?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Part19: I will respond to the meaning of "finisher of Ur faith" in part 28. For now read on: To say U don’t know how JC is related to how Saints & Prophets bring new creation shows U’ve not read Bible (least not in context). JC is one of the Prophets. Now Pay attention to context: “Blessed be God & Father of our Lord JC by his mercy hath begotten us AGAIN to Hope by JC's [assumed] rise from dead (1 Pet1:3). In JC all R made AGAIN– not a first Creation but a regeneration.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
Right. In Jesus, they are made that, all right. I don't see how that means he's not part of God.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 @ItsAmadWorld2 P20: So what does Bible mean by Regeneration? The Prophets are the Regeneraters of their time. If U think JC was for all time Ur in error. If U say he was then why does Ezekiel 36:25 says “I’ll sprinkle clean water to cleanse U from all Ur impurities.” This is God’s Plan prior to the beginning that allows us Grace thru those he sends. 2 Timothy 1:9 “This grace was given us in JC before time began.” JC for his time. Ezekiel etc for their time. Read Bible in context.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
What about "Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever"? Why does the Injil say that IF Jesus' day has come and gone?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P21: JC says in John 3:5 "In truth, none enters The Kingdom unless born of water & The Sprt." Unless born (or begotten). When Bible says JC is begotten of God it is, within the context of Bible, indicating that JC is sent by God: a Regenerator of HOPE. Thru JC’s church new Hope emanates. This is stated right fter Ur misread JC as visible/invisible creator passage: HOPE/Church brings new creation. A few verses previously God’s Love for Saints etc is grace that gives regeneration.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
WHERE does it say in the Injil that 'begotten of God" means just "Regenerator of Hope"? You aren't adding to the "Book", are you? If you are, the "Book" says all the plagues mentioned in the "this Book" will be added unto you.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P22: Do U now see how Colessians speaks of creation? Not as a first physical creation of the invisible/visible but the regeneration of soul/MIND thru grace given to JC (& Prophets, saints etc)? If you still cannot comprehend then read Rom 12:2 “Dont conform any longer to PATTERN of THIS WORLD, but be transformed by the RENEWING of YOUR MIND. Then You’ll find what God's will is.” Try reading as a mystic Jew or Muslim Sufi & the Bible is clearer. Desist in RomanGreek misreadings.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
Where does it say in the Injil that Jesus being the creator of all things "both visible and invisible" just means he's a regenerator of souls? By the way, to be a regenerator of souls sounds like a Godly thing to do. Haven't you just "partnered with Allah" by saying Jesus does that?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P23: NT authors thought, spoke and wrote as mystic Jews not Literal Greeks and Romans. JC’s words were lost on practically minded Roman & rationally minded Greeks. Thru JC isn’t isn’t the 1st creation but means NEW outlook – a new way of MIND. We’re not saved coz JC creates visible/invisible world but due to God’s offer to us, thru him, of salvation. Read Titus 3:5 “he saved us … becoz of mercy … thru washing REBIRTH and RENEWAL by the Holy Spirit.”
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
Where does it say in the Injil that "1st creation" means "new out-look"? Or, is that like asking you for how being the creator of ALL things means NOT the creator of all things, but, just means being a prophet?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P24: Ur GrkRman reading assumes JC’s mission was to claim Himself to be Creator of the physical. This is error. Bible spoke of creation thru JC not to give a doctrine of Trinity for JC never says “I’m Ur Creator”. His mission was to offer God’s grace thru his example. Read James 1:18 “He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.” The context is creation thru JC - a regeneration of MIND not Physical Creation. CONTEXT
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
If you read James 1:18, it sounds like it's talking about God. But, you are saying it's Jesus? Well, in away, you're right then.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P25: Do U now see Colossians does not speak of Creation thru JC as physical creation of world? Do you not see that JC, like other Prophets brings a creation thru regeneration of Mind? If not Quran is right when says the more U try to convince them the more they resist. Read1 Peter 1:23 “For you have been born again (begotten), not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living & enduring word of God.” Creation thru JC is regeneration of MIND/SOUL – not physical. See?
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
And, the "Word of God" is? Check out John 1:1 in the Injil, if you dare.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P26: Preposition διά thru him generally denotes working of God thru secondary agencies, as διὰ τοῦ προφήτου (Mat 1:22). The relation of JC to creation is usually expressed by διά (1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2 - Ur invisible/visible passage). This indicates that there is a different relation between Jesus and God to relation. Jesus is not the Creator and so the passage does not mean what Ur GreekRoman reading thinks it does!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
If so, can you explain, again, the meaning of "creator of both things visible and invisible"? By the way, again, what does "author and finisher of your faith" mean again? CAN you explain both passages without damning yourself to eternal fire by "performing shirk"?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P27: I'll admit διά is used of both son & FATHER in Heb 2:10 Rom 11:36 & Gal 1:1 - but never in Gospels. As it’s used for both U can erroneously argue διά doesnt lower THE WORD to rank of simple instrument. Even so διά clearly differentiates relation to creation of Father & Son so son cant be Creator. If nothing else you should desist in claiming JC to be One in essence with God. When U've done this you'll realize JC isn't God & ur priests have deceived U in this & other things
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating
"Never in Gospels"? Isn't John 1:1 a part off the Gospels?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 CONTEXT: If U read as a Jew U'll know creation is thru word of God (Gen 1:1). God is His own word & all creation is part of His word for He creates all things thru His Word. John 1:1 is authored by a mystic. Possibly a Jewish mystic, or a Greek mystic - nobody knows who the actual author is. If you read like a GreekRoman it will cause you to become a polytheist and you will be lost. Read as a Jew and it is clear. Now I will explain what the Author and Finisher means. Go to p.28.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: CONTEXT: If U read as a Jew U'll know creation is thru word of God (Gen 1:1).
IAM2: And, if you read John 1:2, you find out that this Word of God came down and dwelt among men.
eating: God is His own word & all creation is part of His word for He creates all things thru His Word.
IAM2: Sounds like you are performing shirk in the highest degree, because the Injil says Jesus (also the Word of God), created all things both visible and invisible.
eating: John 1:1 is authored by a
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: John 1:1 is authored by a mystic.
IAM2: Does that mean it's wrong?
eating: Possibly a Jewish mystic, or a Greek mystic - nobody knows who the actual author is.
IAM2: Well, being that it's in the Injil, shouldn't that mean it was authored by...ALLAH!?! :)
eating: If you read like a GreekRoman
IAM2: Hopefully I do.
eating: it will cause you to become a polytheist and you will be lost.
IAM2: You mean, it will cause me to become a Trinitarian for ONE God, which it has.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Read as a Jew and it is clear.
IAM2: Doesn't Islam teach that Jews are the worst of people, contradicted by shirk being the worst of sins?
eatubg: Now I will explain what the Author and Finisher means. Go to p.28.
IAM2: Go to page 28? Sounds like these aren't your words, but, of someone you are putting faith in. I thought so.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 If you don't read your own Bible in front of you then you will never understand it. I explained it as it is written. You give no references and merely accept a thesis that is is not even in the English translation of the Greek. Faith has not finished yet! There will be a second coming and then it will be finished according to your own church fathers. You deny the nose on your faith. Another Messenger (Muhamed) can come for Jesu will return. Read in context of whole of Bible.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: If you don't read your own Bible in front of you then you will never understand it.
IAM2: NOT when I read in it how Jesus is the "leader and completer of your faith" and "the creator of all things both visible and invisible".
eating: I explained it as it is written.
IAM2: I bet you feel you did an excellent job.
eating: You give no references
IAM2: Where did I give no references? Or, are you lying like when you said "there is no abrogation in the Qur'an"?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: and merely accept a thesis that is is not even in the English translation of the Greek.
IAM2: You should get a Young's Analytical Concordance to The Bible. You'd change your mind, IF you were truthful with yourself.
eating: Faith has not finished yet!
IAM2: Right, and YOU say it ends when Jesus actually "disappoints faith" by rejecting you for "standing firm upon the Injil" , you kow, believing what the Injil preaches (i.e.) Jesus not only dying on the cross for the sins of the
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (conti): dying on the cross for the sins of the world, but is the "Son of God"?
eating: There will be a second coming and then it will be finished according to your own church fathers.
IAM2: MY church fathers?
eating: You deny the nose on your faith.
IAM2: You mean "face"?
eating: Another Messenger (Muhamed) can come for Jesu will return. Read in context of whole of Bible.
IAM2: Where does it say that in the "Book" (which makes "People of the Book")? Or, is it pointless
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
Or, is it pointless to ask being that you said there is no abrogation in the Quran?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 What? Do you think I am quoting somebody else? For your information p.28 is asking you to go to my PART 28 comment. Please pay attention.
What do you mean the Jews are the worst of people? Prove your statement as it is from you and not from the Quran! Bring your evidence and desist in your deception. Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
You neither have read the Qur'an, Bible, nor my comments to you. You are in error yet want to remain so
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: What? Do you think I am quoting somebody else? For your information p.28 is asking you to go to my PART 28 comment. Please pay attention.
IAM2: And I'll learn...?
eating: What do you mean the Jews are the worst of people?
IAM2: Doesn't the Qur'an say they are the "worst of hypocrites" and are "the ones deserving of Allah's wrath"?
eating: Prove your statement as it is from you and not from the Quran! Bring your evidence and desist in your deception.
I
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: IF I present the scriptures, won't you just treat them like you did with Qur'an 2:106 saying there IS no abrogation in the Qur'an? Say, who is the one doing deception here? Well, you asked for it, so I'll give you a couple, ok?
Quran 5:82: YUSUFALI: Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and ha
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont) ...learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
PICKTHAL: Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
SHAKIR: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
SHAKIR: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
Quran 98.006
YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
(for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men." What does "worst of creatures" mean to you? Does that not include hypocrites? Oh by the way, "I'm a Christian". Get it?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
IAM2: Didn't Mr. (pbuh) say the Qur'an was from God?
eating: You neither have read the Qur'an, Bible, nor my comments to you.
IAM2: Anyone who looks at this thread can see that you have lied again. Clearly my responses to you are proof that I have atLEAST done that with the latter.
eating: You are in error yet want to remain so
IAM2: And, if I'm not? What's that mean to you? Want to guess?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Ur Logic is flawed. If Bible is written by mystics then read it as such and not as a practically minded Roman or Rationally minded Greek - you readily accept SHIRK, as did your church Fathers. U R in Error. Bible never says it was authored by God coz it is not in the original language of its authors. Find the original Aramaic/Hebrew not the second hand Greek. Where have your church fathers hidden them? This is why the Qur'an is given to you in a Semitic tongue to be the criteria.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eatinge: Ur Logic is flawed.
IAM2: Give examples so people won't think you are lying furhter like you did when saying therw is no abrogation in the Qur'an.
eating: If Bible is written by mystics then read it as such and not as a practically minded Roman or Rationally minded Greek -
IAM2: If you read the "clear signs handed down", Allah says He wrote the "Book" (Bible). Oh, and the "clear signs" say Allah's words can't be changed nor altered. What do you think THAT means?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating; you readily accept SHIRK, as did your church Fathers.
IAM2: Easy for ANYONE to believe God has a Son IF you obey Quran 5:68 and "stand firm upon the Injil".
eating: U R in Error.
IAM2: You HAVE to believe so, or, you believe eternal fire awaits you. Think again.
eating: Bible never says it was authored by God coz it is not in the original language of its authors.
IAM2: Haven't heard of the "Dead Sea Scrolls"? YOu should. You will see that LITTLE has changed in meaning b
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: Haven't heard of the "Dead Sea Scrolls"? YOu should. You will see that LITTLE has changed in meaning from the time of the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Old Testament of THIS day. Do you understand what that means to Islam and all cults that say God's Word HAS been changed and altered? Do you dare guess?
eating: Find the original Aramaic/Hebrew not the second hand Greek.
IAM2: I have. Check out the "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible".
eating: Where have your church fathers
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Where have your church fathers hidden them?
IAM2: They haven't. A HUGE portion of them were found inside the "Dead Sea Scrolls" showing NO change in meaning, and, it looks like the Jordan Codices show there is NO change with the New Testament as well.
eating: This is why the Qur'an is given to you in a Semitic tongue to be the criteria.
IAM2: INJIL (a word in the Quran) is "Semitic word"? Think again.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 In Quran Jesu is a word from God. In John Jesu is God’s words. Context is Genesis 1:1: God SPEAKS creation into being. It means we’re all part of His word. In Jesu dwells fulness of Godhead. Notice Colossians 2:10 Paul says Christians are part of Godhead. It isn’t meant as Shirk but is how GrekoRomans want to read it even tho JC gives CONTEXT; saying the righteous are called GODS so READ IN CONTEXT. It isn’t shirk but the way MYSTICS speak. Desist in Ur deception. READ IN CONTEXT.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: In Quran Jesu is a word from God.
IAM2: In the Injil, Jesus is more than that (see John 1:1).
eating: In John Jesu is God’s words.
IAM2: And WAS God.
eating: Context is Genesis 1:1: God SPEAKS creation into being. It means we’re all part of His word. In Jesu dwells fulness of Godhead.
IAM2: I bet you think you haven't just shirked, right?
eating: Notice Colossians 2:10 Paul says Christians are part of Godhead.
IAM2: Wow, so you are partnering ALL Christians with God now
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: Wow, so you are partnering all CHRISTIANS with God now. Ouch...IF Islam is true.
eating: It isn’t meant as Shirk but is how GrekoRomans want to read it even tho JC gives CONTEXT; saying the righteous are called GODS so READ IN CONTEXT.
IAM2: Where does it say that the RIGHTEOUS are called "Gods"? I notice you put it with a capital G, not as it is in the Injil "gods". How come? You don't see that as shirk, DO you, by putting as BIG g "Gods"? :)
eating: It isn’t shirk but the wa
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: It isn’t shirk but the way MYSTICS speak.
IAM2: Sounds like you have a lot of faith in mystics. Well, when you have it as a capital G for "Gods", sounds like YOU are doing the shirking.
eating: Desist in Ur deception. READ IN CONTEXT.
IAM2: And believe I'm a God? Who is the one shirking here? IF you read it in context, the "gods" die and there is NO mention of them creating all things visible and invisible like Jesus is said to have done. NO mention of them being the "author
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont): NO mention of them being the "author and finisher of your faith", or being in the BEGINNING WITH God and BEING God.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P28 First, where R the Aramaic words of JC? They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fathers. This means we dont know what JC actually said in Original Aramaic INJIL! But lets read what's in the Greek & assume they're accurate. If U Read “our faith” (τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν) it simply means Founder of Christianity– nothing else. But this is error as it narrows scope of “oldest Greek” manuscripts which says “faith” not 'our faith
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eatingeatingeating: First, where R the Aramaic words of JC?
IAM2: When he called the Injil "The Injil"? Wait, "Injil" is the Arab word of "Gospel", which is Greek for "Good News". Strange that Jesus was handed down a GREEk word, don't you think? Doesn't the Qur'an say prophets are only given books in their own language to preach to their own people? Shouldn't the Injil have been called something else?
eating: They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fath
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: They were lost by the neglectful or destroyed by Ur GrekoRoman church Fathers.
IAM2: If so, then how come Quran 5:68 and 10:94 weren't abrogated by Quran 2:106? How come all that "confirmation and reminding" the Qur'an says it does with "before Scriptures" (Bible), wasn't abrogated to say it DOESN'T confirm SQUAT with the Bible?
eating: This means we dont know what JC actually said in Original Aramaic INJIL!
IAM2: So, to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:68) is a lie? How
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: So, to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:68) is a lie? How come I'm not surprised?
eating: But lets read what's in the Greek & assume they're accurate. If U Read “our faith” (τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν) it simply means Founder of Christianity– nothing else.
IAM2: And that means?
eating: But this is error as it narrows scope of “oldest Greek” manuscripts which says “faith” not 'our faith
IAM2: And this means that the Quran is right to "stand firm upon the In
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: And this means that the Quran is right to "stand firm upon the Injil (New Testament), like Qur'an 5:68 says? How so?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Stand firm upon the Injil... YES! YES! Don't say God is THREE! There's no such concept in the Bible. Desist in your deception. Read as a Jew or a Sufi Muslim and you will see that as Jesus himself says: Scripture says all Israel is GOD but this does not mean all Israelites share the essence of God. It is as the Word of God, as Righteous people that people are gods and have fullness of Godhead. Desist in your cherry picking and Read in Context. Yes! Stand firm by reading as a Jew!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: Stand firm upon the Injil... YES! YES! Don't say God is THREE!
IAM2: Even though the Injil infers that He is?
eating: There's no such concept in the Bible.
IAM2: And, since there is. What does that mean for Islam and the Qur'an to "stand firm upon the Injil"? Want to guess?
eating: Desist in your deception.
IAM2: Hey, I didn't write the Injil. If you read the "Clear Signs", ALLAH wrote the Injil.
eating: Read as a Jew or a Sufi Muslim and you will see that as Jesus hi
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Read as a Jew or a Sufi Muslim and you will see that as Jesus himself says: Scripture says all Israel is GOD
AIM2: Where? Are you taqqiya-ing?
eating: but this does not mean all Israelites share the essence of God.
IAM2: Where does it say all Israelites share the essence of God?
eating: It is as the Word of God, as Righteous people that people are gods and have fullness of Godhead.
IAM2: Haven't you just "partnered" again with Allah by saying that?
eating: Desist in
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Desist in your cherry picking and Read in Context.
IAM2: In otherwords, leave the cherry picking to you. Why?
eating: Yes! Stand firm by reading as a Jew!
IAM2: Nice to see a Muslim actually saying a Jew does the right thing for a change. That is so uncommon.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 You not only rewrite the Bible, the Quran, my comments but you also dare to rewrite history. The Jews were being protected in Islam when all over the world they were being expelled and burnt in their synagogues. Do not confuse recent history with history as a whole. You have proven that you no regard for history and so do not know that within the CONTEXT of Bible GOD IS ONE, and to call a person God means they lead the people not sharing God's essence. Go back to JOHN 10:34-36):
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 U not only rewrite BIBLE but change my words. Jews dont share God's essence. Only errant Romans assume SON OF GOD = God THE SON . Desist in error. All of Israel is called "God's son” in Exodos. Jewish literature makes leaders, judges, kings & princes "sons of God" i.e. lieutenants of God. David in Psalm 2:7 (with coming Christ) is Titled Son of God. “All led by Spirit are sons of God” (Rom 8:14). Be reminded of JC reply when accused of claiming divinity: He denied it ... read on:
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
And, if you read the Injil, it sounds like Jesus is MORE than what the "Book" may call Jews as being the son of Gods.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 "Jesus answered them [THOSE LIKE YOU WHO THOUGHT HE CLAIMED DIVINITY]], 'Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (JOHN 10:34-36)" You have JC's own words. Calling him God does not mean God so read as a Jew:
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
Could you please explain yourself better here?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Its U who claims that Jesus is God. Its U who claims the nonsense of Trinity is in the Bible when you cannot even bring one passage stating there are Three in Heaven and these Three are One! Its you who claims the Qur'an says the Bible is correct in viewing God as Three in One when the Bible has no such passage: So again provide your evidence from the Bible or DESIST in DECEPTION. Its you who writes this into the BOOK and then claims it is from GOD. Woe to the lies of the Scribes!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
If you study the Injil, I may not be the only one here who makes that claim about Trinity, God willing. :)
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@eatingeatingeating So where does the Bible say that God is Three in One? You have no evidence! Woe to you who deceive and write the Book with your own pen and claim it is from God! Show the verse !!! You cannot! No wonder Christ will end faith by saying to you "Be gone from me! I do not know you!!" Provide your evidence or desist in the claim that God is Three in One.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
Well, since you say the Qur'an doesn't have abrogation, when it does, whatever I put, guess what? You'll deny.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Read in Context and all will be clear. There is no abrogation in the Quran but development form a primitive way to a sophisticated way. All new Muslims can make such a transformation in a steady manner. The verse on abrogation states "Even if We abrogate...", which means if should ever should be abrogated and not that it is. We do stand firm upon the Injil for the Injil is understood by One-God Oneness Unitarian Christians better than Trinitarians who add and subtract to it.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: Read in Context and all will be clear. There is no abrogation in the Quran
IAM2: So Qur'an 2:106 and another scripture about Allah abrogating and replacing scriptures with better scriptures are lying? How come that doesn't surprise me.
eating: but development form a primitive way to a sophisticated way.
IAM2: Where does it say that with Quran 2:106?
eating: All new Muslims can make such a transformation in a steady manner.
IAM2: What?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: The verse on abrogation states "Even if We abrogate...", which means if should ever should be abrogated and not that it is.
IAM2: No, it actually says "Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it..." what else are you taqqyia-ing (lying for Allah) about?
eating: We do stand firm upon the Injil for the Injil is understood by One-God Oneness Unitarian Christians better than Trinitarians who add and subtract to it.
IAM2: Actu
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: Actually, IF you stood firm upon the Injil, you'd see that God is One, but, with three persons.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Bring this passage from the Bible. You again lie! Desist in your deception. Where does the Bible say "BUT" after it makes the assertion "GOD IS ONE." Bring the passage from the Bible or desist in your deception. All you have are the misread interpretations of your church fathers who admitted that they did not understand the HOLY WORDS. Bring the passage of THREE IN ONE or accept your errant reading!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
And YOU accuse me of cherry picking. You not only cherry pick, you nit pick.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 I accept your interpretation which does not claim that the BOOK is abrogated. Where in your interpretation does it say the BOOK is abrogated. It is you who cannot read in context who is lying. There is no such concept as lying for Allah. This is again your effort to rewrite the BOOK. Desist! Woe to the lying pens of the scribes. Where does it actually say that abrogation has occurred within the BOOK. It is only given as a possibility. Learn to read in context.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 2:106 says "Except if abrogation occurs we will bring a better scripture." This was in answer to questions about what will happen if the BOOK was lost as the original Bible, Gospels etc were lost. The answer was that a better Book will replace the old ones. This is the context. It does not mean that the Book will be abrogated but what will come in its place if it were abrogated. Those who claim the Qur'an is abrogated are in error for they do not read in context of the Revelation.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
2.106
"YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? "
Where does it say what YOU said it means?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P29 Reading out of context it means JC initiated all Faith which is God’s role alone. So let us read in context. Go to the previous verse which speaks of Greek games & translate the Greek properly for Author in the Greek is not meant as The Originator. It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”, “Perfecter” & “Faith” (absolutely not ‘our faith’).
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: P29 Reading out of context it means JC initiated all Faith which is God’s role alone.
IAM2: Where does it say that in the Injil (New Testament)?
eating" So let us read in context. Go to the previous verse which speaks of Greek games & translate the Greek properly for Author in the Greek is not meant as The Originator.
IAM2: How about it just meaning what it means, "author"?
eating: It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”,
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: It is clear “Author,” “Finisher” & “Our faith” are errant & should be “leader/captain/General”, “Perfecter” & “Faith” (absolutely not ‘our faith’).
IAM2: Even if this isn't taqqiya (lying for Allah) here, I don't see how this removes the divinity of Jesus here.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 There is no such thing as lying for Allah! Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God. Provide the verse and stop deceiving people. I can show you where you are given permission to deceive in your version of the Bible but there is no such equivalent in the Qur'an. Provide the verse of lying for Allah from the Qur'an. You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: There is no such thing as lying for Allah!
IAM2 How about Qur'an 3:28, 16:106 and Muhammad saying "war is deceit"? Aren't THOSE "lying for Allah"?
eating: Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say it is from God.
IAM2: Aren't you doing that?
eating: Provide the verse and stop deceiving people.
IAM2: The Qur'an never says "lie for Allah". It just has those scriptures I mentioned that ALLOWS you to lie for Allah...or, really, just lie, period...which you
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: The Qur'an never says "lie for Allah". It just has those scriptures I mentioned that ALLOWS you to lie for Allah...or, really, just lie, period...which you have done already and very clearly by saying that the the Qur'an doesn't have abrogation in it.
eating: I can show you where you are given permission to deceive in your version of the Bible but there is no such equivalent in the Qur'an.
IAM2: Provide them. In the process, you will probably discover that some people, even men
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: Provide them. In the process, you will probably discover that some people, even men of God, have been rewarded for their deceit, but, you will NEVER see God saying it's ok to lie NOR deceive, like you do with Qur'an 3:28 and 16:106, along with Mr. (pbuh) saying "war is deceit". To say the Qur'an doesn't have abrogation in it, I feel, means you are probably already aware of those scriptures from the Qur'an, along with that saying from the Hadith.
eating: Provide the verse of lying in
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Provide the verse of lying for Allah from the Qur'an.
IAM2: It doesn't say "lying for Allah". Taqqiya, really, means "guarding", or "hiding". However, WITH Qur'an 3:28 and 16:106, along with "war is deceit", a Muslim can lie, and, make up stuff. SAY stuff that isn't even there. A good example of taqqiya is a Muslim dressing up like a Rabbi or pregnant woman strapped up with a bomb before stepping onto a bus, or, shaving off one's beard, going to a bar, before flying a plane into
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont): a good example of taqqiya is a Muslim dressing up like a Rabbi or pregnant woman strapped up with a bomb before stepping onto a bus, or, shaving off one's beard, going to a bar, before flying a plane into a building filled with those they view as NOT innocent because they don't pull out prayer rugs and stick their patooties up in the air, five times a day.
eating: You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
IAM2: Well, we'll let people read this thread and see if that
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont) before flying a plane into a building filled with those they view as NOT innocent because they don't pull out prayer rugs and stick their patooties up in the air, five times a day.
eating: You will never be able to do so!!!!!!!!!!!
IAM2: Well, we'll let people read this thread and see if that's true, ok? :)
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Woe to the lying pen of scribes who write the Book with their own pen and claim it is the thread of God.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 This is nonsense. Pay attention to the Quran. Do not read the thread - give the verse, give the passage, read in CONTEXT. You will find more justification for lying in the Bible than in the Qur'an. I have given the passages. Why do you insist on deception. Be a Good Christian and stop trying to be a BAD MUSLIM. Your deception will only cause Christ to disown you and Muhamed to pity you. Woe to lying pens of scribes who write the Book with their own pen and say it is God's thread!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Now you admit your deception. If it does not mean lying for God then stop saying it does. Check what you say from now on or you will be lost and the one you call Lord will disown you and will not intercede on your behalf. Transform your mind and stop giving examples from outside the Quran. Where are such things allowed. You are blind: find the verse and desist in deception. The Quran does not say "DECEIVE" - but read Bible and you will find the pen of your scribes allowing lies.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 i have now given you plenty of examples where the lying pen of your scribes has God allowing lies to succeed. Or would you like to change your mind and accept that "War is deception." Oh ItsAmadWorld2 you are not only mad but blind for you have not read the Book, and if you have then much worse, you have misread. Read in context and begin to understand why "War is deceit!" Now can you see how you mock the Bible, which the Quran upholds and which you belittle. Desist in deception.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Again you write the Book with your hands and claim it is from God. You deceive but you only mock yourself. Find me where the Qur'an says "Lie for Allah"? Where are those words? Nowhere! Look at how you deceive!!! Jesus will say to you "Be Gone! I do not know you!!" Bring the passage immediately oh you deceiver "Lie for God!!! Where is are these words ???????????????????????????????????
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
IF what I'm doing is "writing the Book with my own hands", how does that mean the Bible is corrupted? DON'T Muslims say that THAT means the Bible is corrupted because of "writing the Book" with their own hands? IF I've just done that, how does that make the Bible corrupted? Are you not saying that the Bible is NOT corrupted, but, just LIED about IF I've lied?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 You are not writing the Bible but rewriting the BOOK with your own interpretation. The Bible has been written but it has been hidden and lost. All that remains is the Greek interpretation but you are adding and subtracting and misquoting. Desist! You know your own deception and you know that the one you call LORD will disown you for this deception. Desist.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 “Lie for God” isnt in Quran but its in Bible. I can find such words & cite out of context like U but nothing like it is in Quran. Here is Bible passage: Paul says its Ok to lie for God: “Someone might argue, 'If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increase his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?' Why not say -as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim we say -- 'Lets do evil so good results? Their condemnation is deserved." Romans 3:1-8
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
Where are you to lie in the Bible like you are able to do in the Quran?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 You can't find the words "lie for God" in Quran yet you say you can. Why? JC will say "I don't know U." Why don’t u hypocrites quote parts of Bible in which the lying pen of the scribes gives permission to lie in the name of God? Genesis 2:17 “of tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Yet Adam did not die on “the day” but at ripe old age of 930. The lying pen of the scribes accuse God of lying!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Look to the Bible for granting permission to lie and not to the Qur'an. Where is there is an example such as the ones I've given. Here is another: Exodus 3:18 The lying pen of the scribes has Moses beseeching Pharaoh to allow “3 days' journey into wilderness, that we may sacrifice to our God.” Lie: Moses wasn’t to leave Egypt forever, not just three days. Why did the pen of the Bible writers think it was OK for Moses to deceive. Could it be because "War is deception!" ?
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 1 Kings 22:23
The lying pen of the scribes has God concoct lies against Ahab &/ Prophets: “behold the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets.”
1 Samuel 16:1-3 God told Samuel to lie to Saul about visiting Jesse.
Joshua 2:2 The king of Jericho was told by Rahab that she didn’t know where the Israelite spies had gone when she had hidden them herself yet she is praised in John 18: 20. Why does Bible allow lying? Could it be because "War is deception!"
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 In war there is deceit! Yes WAR IS DECEIT! How does this mean Muslims should lie? The Qur'an also says be of the righteous. It calls Muslims faithful and truthful. You are reading out of context and are a deceiver. Do you know what WAR means? You have no idea what is being meant by war. The Quran says engage in polite debate with others - WAR is something else! If you cannot see how you are a deceiver then you are truly blind. Remember Christ will say: "Be gone! I do not know you!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 It is you who lie. Bring the verse about lying for Allah!!!!! It is you who writes the Book with your lying pen and makes claims it is from God. You are the proof of corrupt reading for your claims are either interpretations, misreadings or down right unsubstantiated.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 No! It means judge of the games because the previous Biblical passage makes it clear.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: No! It means judge of the games because the previous Biblical passage makes it clear.
IAM2: Then, instead of saying "leader and completer of your faith", it REALLY should read "leader and disapPOINTer of your faith". But, it doesn't.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Of course it does not! Jesus will mediate and will finish FAITH. You are still misquoting for the word "OUR FAITH" is not in the Bible, neither does the word "YOUR FAITH" exist in the originals. The BIBLE can be read as Jesus being the finisher of FAITH (absolute faith, not your faith). The last words on the day of judgement will be that of Jesus for he will reply, when the Deceivers ask him to open the door: "Be gone from me. I do not know you!" Read the Bible correctly: "FAITH."
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 P30 The Bible is clear that JC is not author or originator of faith since the faith here treated existed and worked before JC. JC is leader of faith, in that he is the perfect model of faith. His example is for all time, which does not mean he is the only model. Muhamed, who follows JC’s example in submission to God, is also a perfect model. This is in line with Scripture and makes sense. Nothing will make sense in the Bible by associating Jesus with God. Always CONTEXT!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: P30 The Bible is clear that JC is not author or originator of faith since the faith here treated existed and worked before JC.
IAM2: Even though the Injil SAYS he was? Talk about looking at a fire and say it's not a fire. But, contrary to Muslim thinking, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so.
eating: JC is leader of faith,
Iam2: Again, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so. The Injil clearly says Jesus is the "author (ok, beginner) and finisher (ender) of your faith."
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
Iam2: Again, saying so doesn't necessarilly MAKE it so. The Injil clearly says Jesus is the "author (ok, beginner) and finisher (ender) of your faith." Same thing as "author and finisher of your faith".
eating: in that he is the perfect model of faith.
IAM2: And how do you explain "completer" or "ender" of your faith?
eating: His example is for all time, which does not mean he is the only model.
IAM2: How is a model a "beginner and ender" of your faith? That model sure sounds Godly.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Muhamed, who follows JC’s example in submission to God, is also a perfect model.
IAM2: How is Muhammad an "author and finisher of your faith"? Isn't Muhammad dead? But, since "my redeemer liveth", Jesus CAN be the author and finisher of my faith. I bet you don't see that as significant, huh?
eating: This is in line with Scripture and makes sense.
IAM2: Not if you obey Quran 5:68 and "stand firm upon the Injil".
eating: Nothing will make sense in the Bible by associating Jesus
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Nothing will make sense in the Bible by associating Jesus with God.
IAM2: Sounds like you haven't "stood firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:68).
eating: Always CONTEXT!
IAM2: I agree.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 I stand up for the Bible for I find no contradiction between the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT in terms of the concept of God. The Christian and Jew disagree on the concept of God but the Muslim and Jew agree. It is you who have not stood up for the Bible. All Muslims and Jews know God is one. Desist in deception. Read as a Jewish mystic or Sufi Muslim and you will understand the Bible.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 YES! Stand firm upon the Injil and stop saying THREE. The Injil says no such thing.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: YES! Stand firm upon the Injil and stop saying THREE. The Injil says no such thing.
IAM2: And, if it does? What's that mean about the Qur'an? Does that not mean Allah is MORE than just a deceiver IF the Qur'an is true, but, that Old Al is a diabolical deceiver to the highest degree for only making it APPEAR that Jesus went to the cross, and telling us to "stand firm upon the Injil" (Quran 5:66-68) that says Jesus DID go to the cross?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
I have a question. How do you NOT know that Allah isn't deceiving............YOU!?!?!?! HOW do you know?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 The Qur'an does not have examples where God allows lying to go unpunished but I have shown you many places where the lying pen of scribes have God allowing liars to be rewarded. It is far more likely that the lying pens of your scribes are deceiving you and causing you to deceive others than for the Quran to be deceiving me. Read in context and desist in your deception.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 As the Bible does not say GOD IS THREE IN ONE I stand firm upon the Bible. Show me where the BIBLE says GOD IS THREE IN ONE PERSON and I will yield. You cannot but you continue to make comments on threads that you do not even understand and cannot read. Desist. It does not matter to FAITH if Jesus died or did not die on cross for the Quran says that people were deceived by the Romans on the matter. What matters to FAITH is the concept of God. This is what all must be firm upon
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Muhammed is dead and his mission is complete. The Quran says DEEN (Religion, the way of life for the faithful) is completed with the Qur'an. Faith can not be complete until the end of time. The example of Jesus and Muhammed are examples for us but that is not the end of faith. Faith will be complete when JC completes his mission and testifies he did not claim divinity and disowns those who call him God.,
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 By looking at role models we see how to behave. Simple. We see how to act in every context. From beginning to end.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: By looking at role models we see how to behave.
IAM2: So, marry a six year old, have sex with her when she's nine? Kill those who leave Islam, raid caravans? Drink sewer water believing it's NOT contaminated, because, well, it's water and water is "not defiled"? How come I think you won't drink sewer water or eat poison after eating seven ajwa dates in the morning? How come?
eating: Simple. We see how to act in every context.
IAM2: If so, would you marry a six year old,
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: If so, would you marry a six year old, have sex with her when she was nine, then say "I divorce you" three times so you can get another one? You think that's good advice?
eating: From beginning to end.
IAM2: How come I have a feeling you'd have second thoughts about eating a bowl of poison mushrooms even IF you ate seven dates that morning to prove Muhammad true about dates protecting all day from both magic and poison? Want to guess?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 None of this is in the Quran. Drinking poison is in the Bible. Having snakes bite you for your faith is in the Bible. You are reading the wrong Book. Taking all virgins as brides after a raid is in the Bible not in the Quran. Find the verses in the Quran first in which these are stated - you will not be able to - but you will find them clearly written in the Bible because the lying pen of the scribes have performed their deception.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 Not all Muslims believe this hadith so stick to the Quran. You are a deceiver! Desist in citing hadith without informing us of all the opinions from all the schools. The only thing that all Muslims accept is the Quran. The Shias do not accept Aisha was 6. Many Sunnis have abandoned this view. You are living in a vacuum and cannot see that it is the Quran that is the CRITERIA to judge hadith, the criteria to judge Bible, the Criteria to judge all previous revelations. Pay attention
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 From start to finish Jesus shows us how to live. I have answered you already on these points. Read back.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 No it does not! Read my comment again.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
What did I say to make you say that?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 You are not reading the evidence. The Greek does not mean Author of a physical creation but a judge in the a race of faith. We are invited into the Church, into the Faith, into a new way of thinking. This is the new Creation. Read in context and desist in deceiving yourself. You are insisting on a restricted understanding of one single cherry picked verse that you bring out of context. Nothing in the Bible supports your interpretation. Read in context.
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago
eating: You are not reading the evidence.
IAM2: And, if I am? What's that mean to you?
eating: The Greek does not mean Author of a physical creation but a judge in the a race of faith.
IAM2: And if it means Jesus IS God "working all things to His glory", including your faith? What would THAT mean?
eating: We are invited into the Church, into the Faith, into a new way of thinking.
IAM2: Ok.
eating: This is the new Creation.
IAm2: COULD be seen as that, I guess.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
eating: Read in context and desist in deceiving yourself.
IAM2: How do you NOT know that YOU might be deceiving yourself by following after a "god" that would only make it APPEAR that Jesus would go to the cross to cause damnation for all those who'd obey Quran 5:68 and "stand firm upon the Injil"? HOW do you know you aren't being deceived and WON'T get 72 virgins with patooties that are way WAY larger than your palm tree sized penis in jennah (according to the Hadith)?
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont): Are you SURE you will get 300 "eternally fresh, chased, beautfiul boys" to "feed you grapes" on reclining pillows IF you "kill and and are killed in the cause of Allah" (Qur'an 9:111)? Are you sure YOU aren't being deceived? HOW can you be certain when Muhammad says that the sun, when it sets, not only "runs to a resting place" but, "asks/seeks permission to RISE again"? YOU think the sun needs to "ask/seek" such a thing when it's the EARTH that is orbitting the sun? Be truth
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
IAM2: (cont): Be truthful now, please.
eating: You are insisting on a restricted understanding of one single cherry picked verse that you bring out of context.
IAM2: Far better for YOU to cherry pick, true, and say "author and finisher" means "leader and disappointer"?
eating: Nothing in the Bible supports your interpretation. Read in context.
IAM2: Saying so doesn't MAKE it so.
ItsAmadWorld2 6 months ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 It is you who cherry picks and cites out of context, mixes hadith with Qur'an, makes up passages that does not exist, claims it is the Qur'an that allows lying when it is obvious that the Bible is more prone to such a claim. You have the nerve to accuse me when it is you who is the DECEIVER! How blind and how Lost!!!
eatingeatingeating 6 months ago