NV B.71 - Back-hand English (BHE), from VEPS II

[Drzhaza]

dr.dave i have a problem for applying 'right' english with BHE (i'm right handed). My style is like snooker player with cue near my chin. The problem is my 'grip hand' sometimes stuck with my chest or my stomach when i use 'right' english, it's feel not comfort and make your body or stand move a little bit. Do you have any suggestion? *i don't have any problem with Left english with BHE. Sometimes because this stuck or barrier i used FHE for right, but the squirt is high.* Best regards-thank you

[DrDaveBilliards]

@Drzhaza

Most people shift or tilt their stance or body when performing the cue pivot (in either direction). If you don't, problems like you describe result. Give it a try. Still aim and align as normal in the center-ball position, then shift or pivot your whole body with the cue.

[Drzhaza]

Thank you Dr.Dave :)

[DrDaveBilliards]

@Drzhaza

You're welcome!

[Drzhaza]

Dr.Dave, is there any disadvantages for using FHE(Front Hand English) compared to BHE?

[DrDaveBilliards]

@Drzhaza

FHE is better for long, slow follow shots.

BHE is better for short, fast shots.

For a lot more info, see "aim compensation for squirt, swerve, and throw" in the FAQ section of my billiards DOT colostate DOT edu website.

[DrDaveBilliards]

@Rust1nP3ace

Hallelujah!

[DrDaveBilliards]

@Rust1nP3ace

Amen!

[rrj4]

if you were using a low deflection shaft like a predator z or 314 wouldn't it be easier to just use parallel english.

[DrDaveBilliards]

@rrj4

That would work for certain types of shots.

I actually play with a Predator Z-2, and I use BHE, FHE, combinations of BHE/FHE, and even parallel English ... when appropriate.

[zenpoolman]

If you look closely you will see the cue is swerved during the stroke. This is what is compensating for the aim line.

[DrDaveBilliards]

@zenpoolman

Sometimes it is difficult to tell from the camera angle, partly because a pendulum stroke is being used, where the cue tip moves down as the cue goes forward. Which shot (what time stamp) are you talking about?

Look at the break shot at about 2:40. The aiming line is clearly off to the right, yet the cue ball goes straight. If you doubt it, try it yourself, working hard to stroke the cue perfectly straight. Squirt is real ... and BHE can be used to compensate for it.

Dr. Dave

[gerardeduard]

dr dave i got all your VEPS and it was beyond my knowledge...great teaching and now i have a question about video 624, i saw Tom using a black jump cue for jump draw, WHAT KIND OF TIP on that black jump cue ???

[DrDaveBilliards]

@gerardeduard

It's a phenolic tip ... whatever comes on Predator's jump cues.

[synacs]

Thanx for reply,but i think a carabao stroke or swoop stroke is great because you have a proper cue aim alighment when you take a english on last forwaed stroke,the shooting hand have a stright way to the cue ball from some weard reason sorry on my bad english i am from Croatia

[DrDaveBilliards]

@synacs

Some people do prefer this method, but BHE or a combination of FHE and BHE, also has advantages. For more info, see "aim compensation for squirt, swerve, and throw" under "aiming" in the FAQ section of my website (the link is in the video description).

[synacs]

Hello,is this bhe stroke something like carabao stroke from fillipino pool players.

[DrDaveBilliards]

@synacs

BHE is not a stroke ... it is a pre-stroke alignment. But I think "carabao stroke" refers to the same thing.

An alternative is to use a "swoop stroke," which some players also use to apply English. With a "swoop stroke," the back hand is moved during the forward stroke instead of before.

[onemorebrando]

Great video, as usual! Would all Z2s have a pivot point of exactly 11 inches?  Thanks again.

[DrDaveBilliards]

@onemorebrando

Thanks.

I would expect all Z2s to have a fairly consistent pivot point, because Predator seems to have fairly good quality control, but it is very easy to check a given shaft with the procedure in the video.

[gerardeduard]

for 15 years i'm using english by feeling and finally i found these FHE & BHE.....dr dave..can u show me the combination of FHE & BHE ??? or maybe u got this in the VEPS II ??? because right now i totally reset everything 'bout my aim & english....thanks a lot !!!!

[DrDaveBilliards]

@gerardeduard

VEPS II does cover FHE, BHE and FHE/BHE combo in detail.

I also have some info and resources under "aiming compensation" under "aiming" in the FAQ section of my website.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

[gerardeduard]

dr dave..i'm a big fans of ur teaching..what kind of shaft do you use??? and which one of english do u think the best to apply..FHE or BHE?? next week i'm going to order all 5 of veps !!!

[DrDaveBilliards]

@gerardeduard

I use a Predator Z2. I use BHE for firm and close-range shots, FHE for slow, follow shots, and a combination of BHE and FHE, based on swerve "feel," for everything in between. I also adjust for throw separately for some shots, especially slower shots with stun.

I'm glad you like my stuff. Please help spread the word,

Dr. Dave

[nNorthWestern]

the pivot point or pivot lenght changes with the speed of the shot too!, on fast shots a bit shorter pivot is better like the break, medium shot normal bridge lenght or optimal pivot point, on slow shots bit longer pivot point is more accurate

[DrDaveBilliards]

The "natural pivot length" of the cue never changes. However, to adjust for squirt and swerve for shots of different distances, speeds, cue elevations, and conditions, BHE with a fixed pivot length is not acceptable, as demonstrated in the video. One solution is to use different combinations of FHE and BHE to create the necessary effective pivot length for the shot, as demonstrated in the video.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

[nNorthWestern]

@DrDaveBilliards im not sure maybe i do compensate without knowing im trying to get it with instinct in game and analyse it when i practice, but when i do identical shot with english, fast shots feels more accurate with shorter bridge than i would use with medium or slow shot from same position, i have really firm hornbeam shaft. and im still pretty new with the advanced stuff, i belive you know better:)

[DrDaveBilliards]

As the video explains and demonstrates, swerve varies with shot speed (and other things). That might explain why you are more accurate or consistent with faster speed (where there is less swerve).

Dr. Dave

PS: Please help spread the word about VEPS.

[LeonFleisherFan]

Love your videos, but this is the first I don't not agree with. Experience tells me people, once they turn one way or the other, have a tendency to turn right back into the original position during their stroke, because of the static and muscular imbalance they've put themselves in. I agree one might do this on exceptional occasions such as the one shown, but it's bad practice to even dream of rotating one's body during any shot. The shot can be done avoiding the risk of developing bad habits.

[LeonFleisherFan]

Note I realize you're not actually recommending to turn around one's axis during the stroke itself, but positioning oneself that way before back swing and stroke. It's true we all do this incrementally whilst aiming - o.k. as long as we've positioned ourselves reasonably close to perfectly to begin with. The fact remains that we tend to fall back into that initial, balanced position. The more tired one is, the worse it gets, which is why tournament players should vary staying put, not strain!

[DrDaveBilliards]

Excellent points!

Agreed. This technique might not be for everybody, and it does take practice to use it effectively ... like anything else in pool.

However, BHE can have a huge impact on some people's games, especially if they are not good at intuitively compensating for squirt, like top players are.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

[LeonFleisherFan]

It's an option for sure, and I can see it may make sense as an instructional tool, even so, that intuition you're alluding to IS / ultimately should be the objective, in my humble opinion. I'm afraid there is no shortcut to perfection. I'd share it if I knew of one.

[DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. Nothing beats solid intuition and "feel" developed over many years of practice and successful experience.

Thanks for the comments,

Dr. Dave

[nNorthWestern]

@LeonFleisherFan you dont need to move you body if you have right stance in first place, you should have lots of space between ribs and backhand to pivot

[LeonFleisherFan]

@nNorthWestern Regardless of whether one moves one's feet, the point is the imbalance pivoting introduces, and the natural tendency to fall right back into balance, or in a worst case scenario (as when one is very tired) out of balance. Like I said before, feel free to do this the best way you can, but remember it's unnecessary as one can shoot any of these shots without it, especially given that consistency is the name of the game.

[brad4669]

I'm so excited about this info, it has already helped my game. English has always been frustrating for me cos of the squirt issues. Thanks a million Dr Dave.

[DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you like it. Please help spread the work about my "Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots" DVD series. Tom and I have worked really hard on them.

Cheers,

Dr. Dave

[wwiizzeerr]

I'm not sure... may be it works with you, but about my game I dont agree... i would change the direction if i do it like that. Move the bridge right or left... my own opinion.

I'm not noob :)

[DrDaveBilliards]

On the DVD, we show many different alternatives: BHE, FHE (front-hand English ... moving the bridge hand), and combinations of both. These methods will work for some people, but others will prefer to just intuitively place their cue along the necessary line for each shot ... but this requires lots of "feel" and succussful experience.

Dr. Dave

[diuu666]

great video! didnt know that different cues have different pivot lengths for BHE. Very usefull to know!

[DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. I'm glad you learned something useful.

Regards,

Dr. Dave

[joewizard100]

thanks dave

[DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. Please help spread the word about my vids.