@Austyg I believe the two main advantages to the canard design are stability (it's hard to stall them) and aerodynamics (thrust from the propeller is not dragged along the fuselage).
It wasnt the numbr of aircraft it was delayes in production that made the cost of the plane go up so high it wasnt worth buying. To bad to it was a great plane.
Reality is that plane flew to chase the space ship, super flying aerodynamics. It's got superior aerodynamics during flight. So it lands abruptly. Grandpop said any landing you walk away from is a good landing, Army Air Corps moto and we won that war didn't we? Hey how it flies is 99% of the time not the landing 1% of the time problems, so what is important most? FAA delays ruined chances in our economy. Not the first time idiots delays in govt while American ingenuity is tying to win Victory!
It was a stupid design. I did a design study as a senior project for aero engr. The landing gear has to be to far aft. Pilots ad passengers move the cg forward but the gear has to be placed so the aircraft does not tip over backward when empty. This results in a slamed down nose gear on landing and a sharp pitch up on take off. Prop effency is low because of boundary layer air and disturbed uneven flow from wing. All these problems were known by Rutan before design started. What a waste!
forgive me for being ignorant. the vertial stabilisers are actually the winglets, and the elevators are on the nose? turbo prob too? It looks so strange when looking at it's rear. Looks great at the nose though. Nice vid. Thanks for posting
Hate to break this to you, but only about 5-10 starships are still flying today. The company bought out most leases from owners becuase producing the parts and providing the maintainence wasn't cost effective
Unfortunately you didn't catch that this video was created over nine years ago and what you mention was covered in the upper right in the Information window. For more details on what you're pointing out, search YouTube for:
I wonder how it would have looked today, for aircraft of this revolutionary lay-out, if the FAA had more confidence in modern carbon composites. The Piaggio is the only one that comes close, but looks, hmmm.."wrong" with that tail sticking out and it's "fatty-banana" body(I know, short length-->still wide-body-ish is a very practical shape, and aerodynamic to boot, but still...). It's not as elegant as a Starship.
I don't think it's being hard to maintain was the problem, I think the problem was the limited number of aircraft (50) vs. product liability costs. There weren't enough aircraft built to defray the liability costs. Being the first carbon composite aircraft, the FAA wanted more reinforcement that added weight and cut fuel and range. It also took longer to certify. A sad story about a beautiful aircraft.
@paralleler The actual reason why it's hard to maintain is because of the extremely high production costs not of the actual materials themselves but rather because of the long time it took for the FAA to certify it, the cost to overcome the company expenses was much bigger.
@paralleler This IS the most beautiful turbo ever made! This plane was SO ahead of it time that the new boeing 787 is made of only 80% composits and this plane is made of ALL composits.I amases me every time I see this machine.
@diakrite Remember the old "footage" of the flying wing from the 1950"s look what came about with the B2 Bomber,this beautiful aircraft is years ahead of it's time,cutting edge tech is always hard in the beginning,don't give up hope for this beautiful piece of avaition
Does the tip of the canard here moves back and forth along the horizontal plane or is it my impression. Some times it looks as if it is perpendicular to the longitudinal axis as in 2:54 but some times it does not.
Yes the canard does pivot from inside the fuselage. I believe the swing is automatically determined by the flap setting but a pilot or manual would give better information on this.
At 2:50 you can see the flaps are extended and the canard looks perpendicular to the fuselage. Around 3:12 you can see the canard swept back as the second Starship prepares for landing (gear down, can't see any flaps).
Great Video! I worked for a company that had 3 Starships and used them for charter and fractional ownership. I only got to see one of them at the location where I worked before they all went back to Beech.
This is a very well done video- one i tend to watch at least once a week. Hence the question posed by my wife-every time, "I just love this song, who sings this?" A little help gentlemen would be greatly appreciated.
I believe the main reasons for this design was aerodynamics (reduced drag leading to increased speed while reducing fuel consumption) and safety (near center-line thrust for a single engine out, stability of canard design). Being an early carbon composite commercial aircraft, the FAA wanted more structural elements increasing the weight while decreasing fuel payload & range. Delays in production along with increased costs killed the aircraft.
On Tuesday Dec 2, 2008, approx 5pm, I heard a plane approaching. I assume it was taking off from the Oakland Airport, then North over Jack London Square in Oakland, CA. I looked overhead and was able to see the tail structure. It is the Avanti.
Perhaps, I've been seeing the Avanti all along and it was not the Starship I thought it was now that you pointed out the difference in the tail structure of the two aircraft.
Cool! From what we've both seen, it's a regular visitor to Oakland North Field. Unfortunately it gets dark early now but I'll need to try to get some more video of it. The Avanti is unique, exotic, and has been the most popular video I've put up.
I'd still love to get some more video on the Starship as well.
I looked at the Starship and the Avanti videos and see the differences in the tail section. The Avanti has a true vertical tail and the Starship lacks a vertical tail.
Next time I hear then see the screamer overhead, I will try to look carefully and see if I can tell the difference. Keep in mind, I'm on the ground and the plane is flying overhead at 2,000-3,000' or so.
Sometimes I carry my binoculars so looking at planes overhead is easier but sunset is at 5:30pm.
It's possible you're seeing a Starship but I'm thinking it's probably a Piaggio Avanti instead -- search YouTube for PIAGGIO AVANTI LVK and compare. The two planes are similar in configuration & size, both have a unique sound because the turbine exhaust is being cut up by the propeller blades. The Avanti is still being built & I have seen it in the Bay Area.
Last I heard, there were still two Starships flying out of Southern California.
p.s., The most obvious difference between the Starship and the Avanti is around the rudder system. The Starship has winglets while the Avanti has a "T-Tail" similar to a Lear Jet.
I did see a Piaggio Avanti on final to Oakland North Field on Wednesday afternoon, November 19th, around 4pm. If I find a pattern to when it flys "in the neighborhood," I'll need to try to get some more video of it.
An Avanti came into Livermore a few weeks ago and I also see one flying in the 5,000 foot range over Livermore occasionally. I recognize it by sound almost instantly.
About a week ago, approx 4-5pm, I heard the distinct sound, looked overhead, and saw the tail structure of the plane. It was the Avanti tail.
Looks like it took off from the Oakland Airport, flys over mid Alameda, over Jack London Square in Oakland, where I was, and then Northbound somewhere.
Maybe I have been seeing the Avanti all along and not the Starship.
Does the Avanti and the Starship have the same or similar sound from the ground?
I'd say the Avanti is louder and higher pitch than the Starship. Both have five bladed propellers but the Avanti's are smaller in diameter by about 20%.
The Beechcraft Starship is truly a beautiful aircraft and, unfortunately, very rare now. Only five are still flying probably due to product liability issues. One is at the same museum outside of Portland, Oregon, where Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" is on display.
For more, do two web searches: Bob Scherer Starship AirSpaceMag Starship
canard airplanes are generally easier to fly then a standard config airplanes, because the stall speed is so low. A regular aircraft of that size and weight would stall out at 120-100 mph but a canard wing will stall at about 65 mph Also these aircraft have a great manuvarability and fuel consumption rate, though their rate of climb is lower then then standard pilon wing aircraft
Even for canard aircraft which are inherently seriously cool aircraft, this one stands out big time! It would be great if someone were to develop a scaled down version for the homebuilder community. Make it a true 4 seater (maybe 6 - say two small seats for kids) with lots of payload and use a couple of piston engines. Well we can all dream right? Great video of a fantastic plane paraller, thanks for posting it.
Great clip. What a cool plane. Too bad they were taken out of production. They definitely do have a distinctive sound. I see them and hear them down here in the Coachella Valley from time to time. See the Italian made knock off as well.
The P180 Avanti was not a "knock-off; it was a joint venture with Piagggio and Gates LearJet.
The problem with the Starship was due to poor management by Raytheon. They over promised, under delivered, went WAY over budget, and the project was bogged down with endless delays.
Piaggio's problems stemmed from lack of capital and poor cash flow.
I think that if LearJet had partnered up with Raytheon, the Starship might still be flying today.
I think it had more to do with its "unproven" composite design. From what I have read they were forced to make it structurally over designed, this added weight and put it over 12,500lbs. No one likes a canard anyway, its too bad.
Awesome Video I just created one to celebrate this great aircraft such a shame to see this beauty wasting away at Pinal airfield in Arizona if they are still there Burt rutan should buy the rights and build them himself
I saw (heard) one of these two days ago flying about the San Fernando Valley in Southern California. Unmistakable sound and so odd looking in the air.
wow, this video is very cool, this guy who did it, is a master!!!, I remenber what i saw one o this aircraft flying in Dominican Republic with home base at Herrera Int Airport, that aircraft was amazing! But Wath I don`t Understand well is, Why the Rayteon beechcraft destroyed this proyect? and why they Do not allow to those aircraft to fly any more?
This is my favorite plane. My father was part of the crew that worked on getting this plane into the market. I was a little kid at the time, so I remember stories about this magnificent plane while others were probably listening to their parents tell them fairy tales. I didn't understand what was going on except the sense of excitement and wonder over something new and innovative.
One of the things that potential owners don't want, is paying jet aircraft prices and not getting jet aircraft speed. However, having said that, a recent Flying mag article points to the resurgence of the turboprop because of economy of ownership and operation over the jet.
No, I never say the type aircraft when reporting. Controllers can see the type. However sometimes they would ask. At first it was a Be-2000 but they could not see the last 0 later it was filed as a Be-ST Thanks for asking.
Oh yeah, you probably would have been on flight plans a lot. I am VFR only and don't always file, and sometimes tower controllers ask for my type. Maybe someday I'll get my multi engine rating and get to fly something that cool. :)
Why can't all aircraft videos be like this? Most enjoyable. It' gone in to my favourites! Saw one flying over here (Gillingham Kent UK) about 12 years ago. Beautiful. Thanks agin for a wonderful video.
BEAUTIFUL turboprop....
RocKiteman 3 months ago
What's the main advantage of a canard type design of airplane?
Austyg 3 months ago
@Austyg I believe the two main advantages to the canard design are stability (it's hard to stall them) and aerodynamics (thrust from the propeller is not dragged along the fuselage).
paralleler 3 months ago
Mama Long-EZ...:-)
ATLRCFlyer 7 months ago
It wasnt the numbr of aircraft it was delayes in production that made the cost of the plane go up so high it wasnt worth buying. To bad to it was a great plane.
budyzr63 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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DonsanUsake569 1 year ago
Very nice to see them flying around.
XPGlowWorm 1 year ago
It's still a sexy aiplane
Sundancetr4 1 year ago
Reality is that plane flew to chase the space ship, super flying aerodynamics. It's got superior aerodynamics during flight. So it lands abruptly. Grandpop said any landing you walk away from is a good landing, Army Air Corps moto and we won that war didn't we? Hey how it flies is 99% of the time not the landing 1% of the time problems, so what is important most? FAA delays ruined chances in our economy. Not the first time idiots delays in govt while American ingenuity is tying to win Victory!
billbitt96 1 year ago
What a pity there is not manufacture of this model of aircraft !
Nicolasfcl 1 year ago
There is one for sale online. I think there are only about 5 or 6 of these that still fly.
C172Pilotdude 1 year ago
It was a stupid design. I did a design study as a senior project for aero engr. The landing gear has to be to far aft. Pilots ad passengers move the cg forward but the gear has to be placed so the aircraft does not tip over backward when empty. This results in a slamed down nose gear on landing and a sharp pitch up on take off. Prop effency is low because of boundary layer air and disturbed uneven flow from wing. All these problems were known by Rutan before design started. What a waste!
OldFalcon2 1 year ago
forgive me for being ignorant. the vertial stabilisers are actually the winglets, and the elevators are on the nose? turbo prob too? It looks so strange when looking at it's rear. Looks great at the nose though. Nice vid. Thanks for posting
livewiremjk 1 year ago
Hate to break this to you, but only about 5-10 starships are still flying today. The company bought out most leases from owners becuase producing the parts and providing the maintainence wasn't cost effective
jfracch 2 years ago
Unfortunately you didn't catch that this video was created over nine years ago and what you mention was covered in the upper right in the Information window. For more details on what you're pointing out, search YouTube for:
History Channel Starship Boneyard
paralleler 2 years ago 3
FAA, synonymous with Friends Against Aviation!
sakoshooter48 2 years ago 4
Central thrust very good idea.
zuludelta100 2 years ago
the starship + raytheon = the death of Beech.
jjjazzycraig 2 years ago
I wonder how it would have looked today, for aircraft of this revolutionary lay-out, if the FAA had more confidence in modern carbon composites. The Piaggio is the only one that comes close, but looks, hmmm.."wrong" with that tail sticking out and it's "fatty-banana" body(I know, short length-->still wide-body-ish is a very practical shape, and aerodynamic to boot, but still...). It's not as elegant as a Starship.
diakrite 2 years ago
cool, not often you see a 'plane' with no traditional tail. the turbos looks awesome
sm0kingJay 2 years ago
THE most gorgeous turbo ever made! Shame it was apparently hard to maintain.
graet vid. Thanx!
diakrite 2 years ago
I don't think it's being hard to maintain was the problem, I think the problem was the limited number of aircraft (50) vs. product liability costs. There weren't enough aircraft built to defray the liability costs. Being the first carbon composite aircraft, the FAA wanted more reinforcement that added weight and cut fuel and range. It also took longer to certify. A sad story about a beautiful aircraft.
To Infinity & Beyond! Paralleler
paralleler 2 years ago
Homebuilders should forgive me too..., I should have said the Starship was the first commercial aircraft made from carbon composites.
The Piaggio Avanti is a similar configuration to the Starship but has conventional aluminum construction.
paralleler 2 years ago
@paralleler The actual reason why it's hard to maintain is because of the extremely high production costs not of the actual materials themselves but rather because of the long time it took for the FAA to certify it, the cost to overcome the company expenses was much bigger.
kylemontanaro 1 year ago
@paralleler This IS the most beautiful turbo ever made! This plane was SO ahead of it time that the new boeing 787 is made of only 80% composits and this plane is made of ALL composits.I amases me every time I see this machine.
flightdeckreviews 1 year ago
@diakrite Remember the old "footage" of the flying wing from the 1950"s look what came about with the B2 Bomber,this beautiful aircraft is years ahead of it's time,cutting edge tech is always hard in the beginning,don't give up hope for this beautiful piece of avaition
oldrumer4u 1 year ago
48fl is now not flying the n number was cnx and 500cp was distroyed and is now a n number for a SR22 cirrus aircraft
bugguy905 2 years ago
Does the tip of the canard here moves back and forth along the horizontal plane or is it my impression. Some times it looks as if it is perpendicular to the longitudinal axis as in 2:54 but some times it does not.
jmvneto51 2 years ago
Yes the canard does pivot from inside the fuselage. I believe the swing is automatically determined by the flap setting but a pilot or manual would give better information on this.
At 2:50 you can see the flaps are extended and the canard looks perpendicular to the fuselage. Around 3:12 you can see the canard swept back as the second Starship prepares for landing (gear down, can't see any flaps).
The Starship is a beutiful aircraft isn't she?
paralleler 2 years ago
I haven't found the canard sweep angle but the Pilot's Manual I found apparently ties the Flap/Fwd Wing together.
From Section IV, Normal Procedures:
Runup > Press To Test: FLAP/FWD WING MONITOR
Runup > Flap/Fwd Wing: AS DESIRED
Takeoff > Flap/Fwd Wing: RETRACT
Landing > Flap/Fwd Wing: EXTEND
I couldn't find the angles but dimensions show the extended canard width as 25.7083 feet and swept width as 21.9166 feet.
paralleler 2 years ago
Great Video! I worked for a company that had 3 Starships and used them for charter and fractional ownership. I only got to see one of them at the location where I worked before they all went back to Beech.
skyhawk5265 2 years ago
es un ermoso avion
spalepink 2 years ago
This is a very well done video- one i tend to watch at least once a week. Hence the question posed by my wife-every time, "I just love this song, who sings this?" A little help gentlemen would be greatly appreciated.
beauknowz 3 years ago
Hopefully I don't get my nose wapped by a newspaper for this but it's Cirque du Soleil > Journey Of Man > The Forest.
Thanks for the dose of positive vibes for this video. It's always nice to see, hear, or read a smile.
paralleler 3 years ago
Thanks for putting it up, What is the main advantage of this unique design/configuration?
LTF85199 3 years ago
I believe the main reasons for this design was aerodynamics (reduced drag leading to increased speed while reducing fuel consumption) and safety (near center-line thrust for a single engine out, stability of canard design). Being an early carbon composite commercial aircraft, the FAA wanted more structural elements increasing the weight while decreasing fuel payload & range. Delays in production along with increased costs killed the aircraft.
See "Starship Boneyard" for more on the story.
paralleler 3 years ago
looks like a nice bird.
at one point someone will have to figure out a way to put that fiberglass in a mould without hyper inflating the price like the rest
DanFrederiksen 3 years ago
paralleler
On Tuesday Dec 2, 2008, approx 5pm, I heard a plane approaching. I assume it was taking off from the Oakland Airport, then North over Jack London Square in Oakland, CA. I looked overhead and was able to see the tail structure. It is the Avanti.
Perhaps, I've been seeing the Avanti all along and it was not the Starship I thought it was now that you pointed out the difference in the tail structure of the two aircraft.
Oh well. At least we know the Avanti is flying.
sanfranciscobay 3 years ago
Cool! From what we've both seen, it's a regular visitor to Oakland North Field. Unfortunately it gets dark early now but I'll need to try to get some more video of it. The Avanti is unique, exotic, and has been the most popular video I've put up.
I'd still love to get some more video on the Starship as well.
paralleler 3 years ago
Thanks Paralleler.
I looked at the Starship and the Avanti videos and see the differences in the tail section. The Avanti has a true vertical tail and the Starship lacks a vertical tail.
Next time I hear then see the screamer overhead, I will try to look carefully and see if I can tell the difference. Keep in mind, I'm on the ground and the plane is flying overhead at 2,000-3,000' or so.
Sometimes I carry my binoculars so looking at planes overhead is easier but sunset is at 5:30pm.
sanfranciscobay 3 years ago
I think I see one of these in the evening approx 6-7pm.
Looks like it takes off from Oakland Airport? and heads north over Jack London Square.
They have a high pitched screaming kind of sound and are easy to recognize by that sound as they fly overhead.
Does this sound correct?
sanfranciscobay 3 years ago
It's possible you're seeing a Starship but I'm thinking it's probably a Piaggio Avanti instead -- search YouTube for PIAGGIO AVANTI LVK and compare. The two planes are similar in configuration & size, both have a unique sound because the turbine exhaust is being cut up by the propeller blades. The Avanti is still being built & I have seen it in the Bay Area.
Last I heard, there were still two Starships flying out of Southern California.
Keep us posted. Thanks, Paralleler
paralleler 3 years ago
p.s., The most obvious difference between the Starship and the Avanti is around the rudder system. The Starship has winglets while the Avanti has a "T-Tail" similar to a Lear Jet.
paralleler 3 years ago
I did see a Piaggio Avanti on final to Oakland North Field on Wednesday afternoon, November 19th, around 4pm. If I find a pattern to when it flys "in the neighborhood," I'll need to try to get some more video of it.
An Avanti came into Livermore a few weeks ago and I also see one flying in the 5,000 foot range over Livermore occasionally. I recognize it by sound almost instantly.
paralleler 3 years ago
Paralleler
About a week ago, approx 4-5pm, I heard the distinct sound, looked overhead, and saw the tail structure of the plane. It was the Avanti tail.
Looks like it took off from the Oakland Airport, flys over mid Alameda, over Jack London Square in Oakland, where I was, and then Northbound somewhere.
Maybe I have been seeing the Avanti all along and not the Starship.
Does the Avanti and the Starship have the same or similar sound from the ground?
sanfranciscobay 3 years ago
I'd say the Avanti is louder and higher pitch than the Starship. Both have five bladed propellers but the Avanti's are smaller in diameter by about 20%.
The Beechcraft Starship is truly a beautiful aircraft and, unfortunately, very rare now. Only five are still flying probably due to product liability issues. One is at the same museum outside of Portland, Oregon, where Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" is on display.
For more, do two web searches: Bob Scherer Starship AirSpaceMag Starship
paralleler 3 years ago
They built a jet version of the Beech Starship then?
DerVampyrEngel 3 years ago
The Starship was a jet-prop or turboprop. I've never seen it as a pure jet version.
paralleler 3 years ago
does anyone know what it's like to actually fly one of these? seems like it would be a bit difficult.
kwizzle31 3 years ago
canard airplanes are generally easier to fly then a standard config airplanes, because the stall speed is so low. A regular aircraft of that size and weight would stall out at 120-100 mph but a canard wing will stall at about 65 mph Also these aircraft have a great manuvarability and fuel consumption rate, though their rate of climb is lower then then standard pilon wing aircraft
lshatok 3 years ago
The Beechcraft Starship is an amazing aircraft, I believe I have seen one myself but I'm not sure, it looked like one anyway.
Thanks for posting!
Tomtheflyboy 3 years ago
Even for canard aircraft which are inherently seriously cool aircraft, this one stands out big time! It would be great if someone were to develop a scaled down version for the homebuilder community. Make it a true 4 seater (maybe 6 - say two small seats for kids) with lots of payload and use a couple of piston engines. Well we can all dream right? Great video of a fantastic plane paraller, thanks for posting it.
68Jaguar420G 3 years ago
The Velocity has been around for years.
Google velocityaircraft or add a dotcom.
YouTube doesn't allow web addresses in comments.
stu11926 3 years ago
Great clip. What a cool plane. Too bad they were taken out of production. They definitely do have a distinctive sound. I see them and hear them down here in the Coachella Valley from time to time. See the Italian made knock off as well.
trojone8 4 years ago
The P180 Avanti was not a "knock-off; it was a joint venture with Piagggio and Gates LearJet.
The problem with the Starship was due to poor management by Raytheon. They over promised, under delivered, went WAY over budget, and the project was bogged down with endless delays.
Piaggio's problems stemmed from lack of capital and poor cash flow.
I think that if LearJet had partnered up with Raytheon, the Starship might still be flying today.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
I think it had more to do with its "unproven" composite design. From what I have read they were forced to make it structurally over designed, this added weight and put it over 12,500lbs. No one likes a canard anyway, its too bad.
aegismachina 3 years ago
nice.
rayunseitig 4 years ago
Awesome Video I just created one to celebrate this great aircraft such a shame to see this beauty wasting away at Pinal airfield in Arizona if they are still there Burt rutan should buy the rights and build them himself
LifesJoys 4 years ago
I saw (heard) one of these two days ago flying about the San Fernando Valley in Southern California. Unmistakable sound and so odd looking in the air.
veneziablau 4 years ago
Yes..., I understand there are still two privately owned Starships based in the Los Angeles area.
Their lines are beautiful!
paralleler 4 years ago
wow, this video is very cool, this guy who did it, is a master!!!, I remenber what i saw one o this aircraft flying in Dominican Republic with home base at Herrera Int Airport, that aircraft was amazing! But Wath I don`t Understand well is, Why the Rayteon beechcraft destroyed this proyect? and why they Do not allow to those aircraft to fly any more?
captitick 4 years ago
Love the video. I had the pleasure of seeing one here in Miami it is an awesome sight in the air.
Nextmanmusic 4 years ago
This is my favorite plane. My father was part of the crew that worked on getting this plane into the market. I was a little kid at the time, so I remember stories about this magnificent plane while others were probably listening to their parents tell them fairy tales. I didn't understand what was going on except the sense of excitement and wonder over something new and innovative.
lexmarkblackink 4 years ago
Ohoh..what a beauty.
lesach 4 years ago
raytheon killed Beech Aircraft...damn them and all stockholders to hell...oh...the patriot missile system SUCKS.
jjjazzycraig 4 years ago
One of the things that potential owners don't want, is paying jet aircraft prices and not getting jet aircraft speed. However, having said that, a recent Flying mag article points to the resurgence of the turboprop because of economy of ownership and operation over the jet.
cyprixx 4 years ago
I flew the Starship from 1994-1996, I loved it and I love the video. Thanks
dangomax 4 years ago
So when you called up the tower, did you identify as "Starship (N-number)"?
HunsV 4 years ago
No, I never say the type aircraft when reporting. Controllers can see the type. However sometimes they would ask. At first it was a Be-2000 but they could not see the last 0 later it was filed as a Be-ST Thanks for asking.
dangomax 4 years ago
Oh yeah, you probably would have been on flight plans a lot. I am VFR only and don't always file, and sometimes tower controllers ask for my type. Maybe someday I'll get my multi engine rating and get to fly something that cool. :)
HunsV 4 years ago
Why can't all aircraft videos be like this? Most enjoyable. It' gone in to my favourites! Saw one flying over here (Gillingham Kent UK) about 12 years ago. Beautiful. Thanks agin for a wonderful video.
102trafalgar 4 years ago
I'd take the Piaggio Avantti P180 over the Starship any dat.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
I have some of those same pictures on my own desktop!
speeddemon0117 4 years ago
I hope that Beechcraft gets around to producing this excellent machine again. Unlike others, I would keep the turboprop engines, though.
speeddemon0117 4 years ago