John Edwards - SEIU/CAP Health Care Forum

[ytdsmom]

Most of what Edwards say is generalized "cheerleading" material. However, he has said he wants to increase minimum wage, which will of course increase the cost of most everything. Couple that with his ALREADY promised tax increase for Univ Health Care & the personal bankruptcy courts will bust at the seams.

[QueenTeriqua]

wilverb,

You make a grim but accurate point. I was diagnosed with an inoperable and debilitating brain tumor at 38 years old. Thank God I worked hard all my life because there is no help offered freely from our Government. It is a fight to get the Social Security we paid over the years . After that fight, comes the big battle for healthcare. Many Americans need a lawyer to get these things.

[ytdsmom]

There needs to be health care reform....no doubt. And, no doubt you know that first hand. I just do not believe we need to be that reliant on the government....EXCEPT to fix our current health care system.

[cowpoker321]

yay john edwards can help us destroy the constitution! the idiot

RON PAUL 2008

[cowpoker321]

there is no way a law saying that everyone has to be covered with health insurance is constitutional, John Edwards is just another big-gov dumbass.

[paigia]

If You're Thinking About Voting For John Edwards...

...First ask yourself these questions.

Did you know that he employs LUC Media (a well known union-busting public relations firm)?

Do you agree with John Edwards vote in favor of storing nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain in Nevada?

[willberb]

Edwards is right. However, we have a rapidly aging population and they all want the health care system to help them LIVE FOREVER.

Living on Machines in institutions for years and years is expensive. Most of the health care cost is spent in the last ditch effort to squeeze out a year or two more of life.

[caliwmn760]

I HEART John Edwards!

[zappatx]

Why doesnt Edwards use Frank Zappa's 2nd album name for his slogan, "We're only in it for the money"

[uterfan]

how are you taking their power away when you're using HUMANA to try to get elected? HUMANA is a predatory health insurance company featured in SICKO. YOU'RE LYING THROUGH YOUR TEETH!

73% of Edwards money comes from WALL STREET

doesnt that start make you think?

[mydodgers1]

Look @ Mitt Romneys Health care system in his state. He did this without increasing Taxes. Don't be fooled, with this health care. The Health Insurance companies will block any universal coverage unless they are part of the system.

[superwawisuperstar]

Edwards 2008, its about time.

[k3304]

Yippee !!

I want to pay healthcare for rich kids !!

[k3304]

Edwards accuses WAL MART of subjecting associates children of being on Medicaid

John, isnt that called universal healthcare ?

[GeorgeHowkins]

Any John Edwards supporters ought to check out Dennis Kucinich, he is the only candidate who coauthored HR 676 a healthcare bill for single payer universal healhcare.

[pilotsdaughter]

Rolling back Bush's tax relief for the top 1 percent of us and funding universal health care is the right way to go. If you haven't rented Sicko, do it today, it will open your eyes to one of the ways we are in deep trouble. John Edwards in 2008.

[starfighterzoot]

The idea would be to eventually get rid of or minimize the effect that private insurance has on health care. The best health care systems in the world are completely government run, and I think that that is what Edwards is proposing a transition towards.

Think about it though, the amount that Americans pay for health services every year (which is ridiculous in a lot of cases) is probably more than the taxes they would pay for a universal health care system.

[allstonbean]

Look at the issues SEIU: Edwards is clearly the strongest. The Carpenters Union agrees: they know who is backing them. And my brothers and sisters at UBC know that Edwards is the only candidate who is making union and working class issues a priority in this campaign. Edwards '08!

[Billyothon]

As a member of the Teamsters, I wouldn't vote for this cardboard cutout if he was the only alternative to Bush.

[azguitar]

Go John Edwards! Edwards does fight for the average American, and that makes the the top 1% wealthy in this country very nervous. Go John!

[allstonbean]

nospam2118, for all your talk of la-la land, you're the one doing economic alchemy. Edwards is going to pay for his health care plan by revoking Bush's tax cuts to those making over $200,000 per year, the wealthiest %2.

Ten Nobel Prize winning economists opposed those tax cuts when Bush enacted them. Bush's tax cuts favor rich elites at the expense of regular Americans.

The health care system is rigged right now. John Edwards is the only one taking on drug and insurance companies to fix it.

[nospam2318]

allstonbean: Why do you dislike wealthy people? Why is it ok to rob a man according to how much he makes? The problem with overtaxing the rich is that they will do whatever it takes legally and/or illegally to offset the new tax liability. This in turn lowers (not increases) the revenues accruing to the federal government and makes the less fortunate even worse off. You cannot tax a country into prosperity.

[allstonbean]

Why do I dislike wealthy people? I don't; I dislike unfair policies that favor super-rich elites at the expense of millions of regular people. Please, what you should be asking yourself is why you dislike the 47 million Americans without health insurance and why you dislike the 36 millions Americans below the poverty line (and that's not even counting the millions of others who are struggling in the middle class).

[nospam2318]

What happens in your book when a regular person becomes a "super-rich elite?" You may be surprised but many people strap the boots on tight and actually take advantage of living in a great, free society and become wealthy, as opposed to playing the "boo hoo, I'm entitled to everything" game. Just remember, there are things you're taught and then there are things you learn. You sound like you're still in the being taught phase, probably still in college thinking you've got the world figured out.

[allstonbean]

You're the one living in a fantasy land. You might be surprised to learn that millions and millions of people have fallen into poverty since Bush's tax cuts were enacted (at the very time that the growth of the top %1 has been enormous). It has nothing to do with "strapping the boots on tight." The system is rigged so that you can strap your boots on as tight as you want (with two jobs!) and you still can't make it. It seems you're in favor of that.

[allstonbean]

And please back off with the personal insult crap, buddy. You sound to me like a regular rat jerk who has to resort to personal insults when he's grasping at straws.

I love that John Edwards makes you guys so freaked out. He's clearly showing the most leadership in the Democratic Party.

[nospam2318]

No disrespect intended...I must have struck a nerve. I love how you've stuck me in the Republican corner when in fact if I had to vote today it would be for Bill Richardson. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree because you are married to political ideologies and I'm married to my economic training. Cheers.

[allstonbean]

Oh please: you accuse me of being still in and then you celebrate your "economic training." I WORK for what I have, like the %98 of America. The only nerve that's been struck is on your end about Bush's tax cuts being rescinded. You're the one "married" to ideologies when there are 47 MILLION Americans without health care.

You're married to economic INJUSTICE. Don't disguise it. Claim it. Edwards is going to beat you on it.

[nospam2318]

Edwards doesn't have a chance because his model is already in play. Hugo Chavez has implemented it a long time ago in Venezuela. Communism is on the way out, but Edwards and Clinton haven't figured that out yet. Have a good day at school tomorrow.

[allstonbean]

Spin it like the Rove Crony you are. You're for the elitist interests who have kept 47 million Americans from having health care and who have created more economic inequality in this country than there's been since the Great Depression. Edwards is at work to fight these interests and it makes a lot of those who have rigged the system scared.

Have fun at the spa tomorrow.

[nospam2318]

Just to clarify, there was very little economic inequality during the Great Depression. Everybody was destitute and living in a state of poverty. However, what made the Depression even worse was government tinkering such as the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. By the way, I'm not much of a spa guy. Rather I prefer to work hard so I don't have to rely on the government to take care of my problems. On another note, would you be in favor or against implementing a revenue neutral flat tax?

[allstonbean]

I'd be in favor of what I said: revoking Bush's tax cuts on people who earn over $200,000 a year (the top %2) so that average Americans can have health care. I'm also in favor of raising the minimum wage to the levels Edwards has specified so that workers can live on it.

Sorry you're not much of a spa guy. Hittin' those private school books for the big phrases instead, huh?

More Nobel Prize winners are still against Bush's tax cuts, buddy.

[nospam2318]

Sorry...wrong again. I did my undergraduate and graduate work at a state university while working full time as a line cook. I wouldn't get along with the private school economics professors as I like to shape my own thoughts as opposed to having my thoughts shaped by others. You ought to try it.

[allstonbean]

State University? You know those things receive public funds right? Or did you pay your professors salary and research costs with your line cook job too? You out to try giving up your la-la land view of economic alchemy about Bush's tax cuts. You think that revoking those cuts to the top %2 of the population is robbery even though the only thing they've stimulated is the pocketbooks of the super rich.

[allstonbean]

And you seem to think that the 47 million Americans who lack health care are just lazy (i.e. they don't pull up their bootstraps enough). I've got news: millions work and work very hard. I know some. They work two jobs and forty or fifty hour work weeks. They don't have health care because the system is RIGGED. Edwards is going to fix that to get regular Americans the care they need and the salaries they can live on.

[allstonbean]

Oh, and by the way, you are absolutely, completely wrong about there being little economic inequality during the Depression. Go look at a Gini chart of the twentieth century in the United States! During the Depression it was as high as 0.7. During the forties and fifties (when unions were strong and taxes on the super-rich were high) it dropped below 0.36 and has now climbed to above 0.44. Get it right.

[nospam2318]

I promise this will be my last retort as I'm getting bored, but let me educate you real quick. The Gini coefficient is used to measure net incomes, but not net worth (capital gains, etc.) Hmm, if I remember correctly there was a huge stock market crash of '29. Calculate the Gini coefficients in terms of net worth and get back to me...or have you not learned integrals yet?

[allstonbean]

Double wrong: if you look at net worth it's even worse. Most estimates are that the top %1 owned about %45 of the wealth in the early 30's, and after falling in the middle of this century the percentage has risen again in recent years. Now the top %1 owns close to %40 percent. Come back to reality.

[nospam2318]

On a final note, you're a Stalinist. You would be happy with a country of average to below average standards as long as everything is "fair." Not all people are satisfied with mediocrity as you are. Enjoy your life of "average." Also, you're use of the word "alchemy" is quite tiresome. Try a thesaurus.

[allstonbean]

Good riddance: go back to your spa. I see where your sympathies are. Edwards is going to beat the elitist interests of this country who have rigged health care and the minimum wage for a long time.

Edwards fights for the average American and I can see why that makes you nervous.

[MamaBear2008]

I'm no economic scholar as you, but I do recall my American history well enough to know that the Depression increased the gap between the rich and everyone else. They bought land, businesses, etc., dirt cheap, increasing their wealth when values rose.

[allstonbean]

Edwards is framing the issues of the Democratic Party. That's why Clinton tried to copy Edwards on her health care plan (without controlling rising costs of the drug and insurance companies). Edwards is shaking things up and a lot of entrenched interests are afraid of that. He's telling the truth about how things are rigged against working regular Americans.

He's a fighting populist. And that you're here arguing this shows that he's made you very nervous. Thank you Edwards.

[MamaBear2008]

Hear, hear!!

[nospam2318]

allstonbean: By the way, I'm very familiar with the list of 10 economists; a big surprising that most of them are from Berkley. George Akerlof is a very brilliant man, but if you examine the 4 points to why he opposed the tax cuts he's proven himself to be wrong. If you implemented Edward's plan and it turns out to be disastrous, just know that you won't be able to get rid of it for a long time. Unfortunately that is how our government works.

[allstonbean]

You say he's "proven himself to be wrong." What he's really proven to be (along with the nine others who were against Bush's tax cuts) is a Nobel Prize winner. There was clearly more opposition against the tax cuts within the economics community than there was support for it, especially with Bush's penchant for wild spending on war.

Edwards is going to make sure this country looks out for the average American again. He's a leader and he's framing the issues for the Democratic Party.

[nospam2318]

allstonbean: On a final note, I am a regular American with a chronic disease that I will die with or die of, so I intimately understand the importance of health care. I just can't afford for it to deteriorate as all incentives are stripped away from doctors due to government control, as well as having to wait in ridiculous lines for life saving procedures. If you really want to better health care, minimize third party payers (HSAs are a great option) and implement real tort reform.

[YuToobHasAIDS]

I've gone to several different doctors over the years until I found one I like.

I'm sure it will be sooooo much better for me when the only choice I have is the federal government. Thank you for taking care of me, Mr. Edwards because are too dumb to take care of myself.

[yutooobe]

You were looking for the wrong doctors. You see there are psychiatrists right down the road from you. And think if John Edwards were president he could help make sure you get properly diagnosed and get the right medications for your needs. There is a stigma on mental health problems; but no shame in it. Now it's bedtime and you have school in the morning so sweet dreams, and GOD BLESS YOU.

[nicholas9999]

In truth, the fed gov't could, thru a state university, fund a free clinic in a medium-size city quite easily. Just to see what the pitfalls are. You just basically rent part of a hospital, do preventive care, do lab tests, pay some docs and nurses by the hour, let them practice good medicine, do mostly outpatient procedures, etc., keep med records, but no billing records (why would you? it's just a waste of money). Why not pilot a program to see what the fallout is?

[0069twiggy]

John Edwards is a man of the people

[allstonbean]

The system is rigged so that many working Americans can't possibly look out for themselves or their families, even when they're working sixty hours a week or two jobs. Why can't they afford health care? Because of lobbyists and the rich elites who are making millions on drug company profits and who do everything they can to block truly UNIVERSAL health coverage.

I know that SEIU will recognize who is on their side and give Edwards their full endorsement. John Edwards '08!

[allstonbean]

An understanding of economics hasn't escaped me at all: there are strong economic reasons (and plenty of research to back this up) to pay the WORKING people a decent wage and to make sure they have the health care they need.

There's also plenty of moral reasons to see a system that favors the top %1 of the population at the expense of %99 of average Americans as one that's primarily UNJUST and UNAMERICAN.

Can't you see that, Rockefeller?

[nospam2318]

Let me first say that the current system of health care is far from ideal, but national health care paid via tax increases will only make things worse. Remember, a rising tide lifts all boats. The goal is not to redistribute wealth, but rather create new wealth. Health care for all sounds brilliant, but what about the externalities created under such a socialist program. What happens when demand outpaces supply? Medical professionals call it triage, economists call it scarcity.

[yutooobe]

nospam2318:

You have created this "TAX INCREASE". John Edwards wants to roll back the tax breaks that your wonderful, faultless, do-nothing-wrong pres. has given to the wealthiest 1% of Americans-that alone will be more than enough to pay for this brilliant health care plan. Please listen to the candidates that you talk about so you will be at least somewhat educated on where they they stand.

[nospam2318]

yutooobe: Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't vote for G.W. Bush, even though I supported his tax cuts during his first administration. Please read or watch "Commanding Heights: The Battle for the World Economy." It outlines using historical occurrences from the days of Stalin through today why a centrally planned schema will never work. Sorry I must go and visit with clients as the greedy capitalist that I am. In all seriousness, I wish you the best.

[allstonbean]

Please, you rely on ideological propaganda and pass it off as expert advice. What Bush's tax cuts have done (and no one disputes this) is increase dramatically the economic inequality in this country. They haven't stimulated anything but the pocketbooks of the top %1 or %2.

Edwards is returning the taxes to what they were before Bush, no more. That's not robbery; that's called living in a SOCIETY.

[MamaBear2008]

I lived in Finland with about 50% tax and everyone I talked to said they were happy to pay their taxes and receive health care and a govenment pension. Economy is doing great.

[nospam2318]

Also, do you really trust the government with your health? I don't. Believe me, nobody has a greater incentive to look out for your health then you do, especially not the government. Before you completely sell yourself on national health care be sure to stand in line at the post office, the DMV and airport security because this is what your doctor's office will look like.

[nicolti]

I believe the government with my health because if you look at other model countries in this world, they're so much better off!

[nospam2318]

Better off how...is it the extreme tax rates, the double digit unemployment rate or attenuated economic growth that you find attractive? There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[yutooobe]

nospam2313:

You are right, there is no "free lunch".

John Edwards said he would roll back the G. W. tax cuts for the filthy rich. So unless YOU are filthy rich what problem could you have with it? Do you just not belive in equality? That is immoral. Belive me, I am not judging you, You are just wrong on this issue. Listen to him. G.W. has allowed my family pay $900+ a mnth for insurance. God bless you.

[nospam2318]

yutooobe: I appreciate your kind approach to your response, but believe me I'm not wrong on this issue. I also don't vote on party lines. I vote on economics. In fact, I voted for Bill Clinton twice. Also, I do believe in equality, but if that is the basis of your argument then why stop at the United States? Why don't we implement a system of health care for all those in the world who don't have it? Sounds extreme, but if the argument doesn't hold in with absurdities then the logic is flawed.

[nospam2318]

yutoobe: Having worked with some of the most influential economist in the world I assure you I'm not wrong on this. I would be the first one to vote on health care for all if I believed it would do more good then harm. I'm only afraid that it will work in la la land where puppy dogs and unicorns roam freely in a carbon neutral sphere, but unfortunately in the real world there is no such thing as true equality.

[nospam2318]

yutoobe: The goal should be to lift those in poverty out, not to bring those out of poverty in. The irony is that I guarantee you Edwards will opt out of universal health care and instead go the private route as he is one of those "filthy" rich you refer to. And, God bless you.

[yutooobe]

nospam2318:

First, John Edwards is a blessed wealthy man.

I do business with financially wealthy people everyday and we talk politics and I know seven people that have a net worth of over 30 million dollars.

They all thank God for there wealth and know that God has trusted them with their blessing to do good for mankind. Them, like myself tithe and give money to charity-none of them have a problem with using some tax dollars to help the needy here in America.

[nospam2318]

yutooobe: John Edwards is not a "blessed wealthy man." He made his fortune by suing doctors blaming them for causing cerebral palsy in newborns using what is widely considered junk science. Edward has definitely done his part in driving up health care costs.

[yutooobe]

nospam2313:

If you think that it is okay to watch people DIE from cancer and other diseases because they can't afford to get a checkup once in a while-that is immoral!!! Way too many people never get diagnosed and they and their families suffer for many years and live a horrible, miseralble life. I Know. THAT IS IMMORAL.

GOD BLESS YOU.

[yutooobe]

nospam2318:

Edwards' health care plan will stimulate the economy, create competition in the medical field resulting in increasing the quality of health care. Think about it, there is NO TAX INCREASE. Just instead of the wealthiest 1% of Americans keeping their tax breaks the pres. has given them to spend on their selfish worldly pleasures such as more cars, trucks, boats and homes and more homes; but to help those that are in need. ANYTHING LESS IS SIMPLY IMMORAL.

[nospam2318]

yutooobe: Even the Keynesians would disagree with your notions that this would stimulate the economy. I am truly at a loss for words at you misunderstanding of how an economy works. I terms of "selfish worldly pleasures such as more cars, trucks, etc," is it not the production of these goods which employs those whom you seek to protect?

[MamaBear2008]

Not good comparisons. John's plan increases competition in the health care industry, creating government markets to compete with private insurance. If the government can provide better care more affordably, where's your beef? Everyone will still have a choice whether they want to go with private insurance or the government plan.

[nospam2318]

I've never understood the concept that the tax cuts were only for the rich. The tax cuts are in percentage terms, across the board. Now, in a progressive system such as ours somebody actually paying taxes (in dollar terms) is of course going to get more back (in dollar terms) when compared to those who pay virtually nothing. How is that unfair?

As well, what is more egregious...15% of the residents in the United States not having health care, or completely ruining it for the 85% who do?

[casunray]

A President being "honest with the American people"....what a concept, eh?

[Grimli]

gotta love a politician that is Honest, not like the rest of them

[RJFlord]

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs? Anybody?

Giving out things for free just makes us more lazy. Changes can be made, but not universal heatlth care and not taking more from the wealthy. The top tier income wise already pay the highest % of taxes, America is the land of opportunity, not the land of handouts, and not the land of goverment taking your earned income.

[allstonbean]

None of the things you said is true, except for the part about America being (rightfully) the land of opportunity. That's what Edwards is trying to do, provide opportunity for Americans to WORK. The top tier (the %1 who have %40 of the wealth) have stacked the deck in their favor so they pay less than they ever have while getting corporate subsidies.

Let's have health care, a good minimum wage, affordable college so regular people can WORK and have opportunity. Go Edwards!

[RJFlord]

So me saying that the top 2% pay a higher% of taxes is a lie?

[allstonbean]

What's a lie is to say that's a fair way of talking about the issues. Of course the %1 that has %40 of the wealth pays a higher gross percentage of taxes; they have %40 of the wealth! It's a tautological asking: like asking whether a river runs downhill.

The real question is why the rich get tax cuts when most Americans can't afford health care. Bush's tax cuts for the elite have benefited only the wealthiest income earners and have DRAMATICALLY increased economic inequality in this country.

[nospam2318]

Karl Marx. I agree with you completely. The two reasons why a universal/socialist healthcare won't work are:

1. Incentives matter, and

2. There exists scarcity in all things.

[deepfriedmorayeel]

you and me buddy... were that source of revenue for illegal aliens, the terminally lazy, every liberal socialist plan, you name it

[BlindPatriotism]

and what's that source of income gonna be john?

[allstonbean]

Just look at the details on his website: Edwards has it clearly laid out.

He was the first to provide a UNIVERSAL health care plan. He'll pay for it by revoking those idiotic tax cuts to the top %1 in this country who have %40 of the wealth (and that's an actual statistic, not a hyperbole). His tax hikes will affect those who make more than $200,000. The rest of America will have universal health care and a minimum wage over $9. That sounds fair to me.

[nospam2318]

I'm assuming the basic tenets of economics have escaped you.

[Muskie1fan]

That's the damn problem!! He needs help getting THERE!

Edwards '08...at least Iowa gets it!

[fairiekitty83]

If he makes it far enough, I'm voting for Edwards.

[MamaBear2008]

As John has said, he can't do it alone. It takes each one of us doing our part for tomorrow to begin today. Contribute to his campaign! Volunteer! Persuade at least 4 people to vote for him. Do your part and you won't regret it.

[ShortbusMooner]

John- I don't know who to believe. I'm very torn on this issue.