Lifter in vacuum 1

[JoelHarvey1]

google jln labs and do your research before making assumptions

[mica410]

its not lifting.. discussion over now please k thanks?

[mike4ty4]

I just discovered another flaw with Beamshipcaptain's claims. If this device really generates a gravity field (as opposed to wind), then it should cause gravitational effects on surrounding objects. Gravitational fields cause equal acceleration of any mass placed within them. This is because they are space-time distortion (see General Relativity which has been recently boosted by new cosmological data.).

[mike4ty4]

So I conclude that the effect of lifters is due to ionic wind, not gravitational field manipulation. Furthermore, I know Beamshipcaptain doesn't like Mythbusters but how do you explain their experiment with the "gravity meter" that could detect extremely minute gravitational perturbation by using a falling mirror and a laser to measure the acceleration. They put a triangle lifter right under the machine and found no effects. This device was accurate to the uGal range (that's like 10^-8 m/s^2).

[mike4ty4]

The only way it could "work" as you claim is if the field fell off phenomenally fast with distance. Does it? This would be much larger than an inverse square and maybe even inverse cube law.

[Beamshipcaptain]

h=TH efield obeys the Inverse Square law, in that the force drops off inversely with the square of the distance, as any force field in Nature, including gravity.

[BeamshipsRevenge]

this video doesn't show it lifting. it shows it mildly oscillating around a fixed axis.

is this how we're going to return to Pleiades, Russ?

[MrAwsome514]

@mike4ty4 Well more precisely the effect is not just the ion wind there is one more thing to consider. See the ionised air is not just being pulled down to the foil but the foil is also at the same time being pulled up to the ionized air. The means more acceleraction can be achieved than what measurements of the airflow would suggest. Also Beamship captain does not like hard facts either like the NASA documents I slapped him in the face with where they said no its not antigravity.

[Beamshipcaptain]

It DOES cause gravitational effects on surrounding objects!

[mike4ty4]

OK, so why didn't the gravity meter pick anything up? The acceleration falls off way too fast? What happens if you put a 1lb ball near it? If it really generates anti-gravity that ball should experience acceleration, despite it being too heavy for ionic winds, etc. Can you do a demo of that?

[Beamshipcaptain]

THe force of artificial gravity on the device is too small for the gravitometer to pick up as the power used is very small, with lightweight devices for safety. Nevertheless, only 1 egg shows how small, lightweight objects are ionised and attraced to the foil skirt, as is dust, etc.

[mike4ty4]

@Beamshipcaptain They shouldn't need to be "ionized" to be attracted as gravity does not act on charge but on mass-energy. Neutral objects should still attract. And as for inverse square law, inverse square is slow-fall enough that if there's at least 9.8 m/s^2 acceleration field being generated by a device of the size of that lifter, then there should still be some field left up there to do something. If it's 9.8 m/s^2 = 980,000,000 uGal at say, 1 cm, then at 1 m it'll still be 98,000 uGal.

[MrAwsome514]

@Beamshipcaptain You are saying that a machine so sensitive it can pick up the gravitational pull of the human body accurately enough to show a difference in it's data dependant on where that person is standing in relation to the machine can not pick up a gravitational field strong enough to lift a lifter against the earth's gravitational pull? The gravitational pull of a human body is not strong enough to do that so if the machine can pick that up the lifter should make the thing go nuts.

[BeamshipsRevenge]

@mike4ty4 .

there are PLENTY of flaws with beamshipcaptain's ideas. John Searls are even worse. He claims that his flying disk goes from zero to ANY arbitrary velocity, instantaneously.

and if you think that beamshitcaptain is good at avoiding questions, then Searl is the master.

[Beamshipcaptain]

@BeamshipsRevenge THey are not my ideas, they are the results of decades of research in to field effect propulsion, which I have verified with practical experiment over the last 25 years, and I have published my findings and empirical data. Professor Searl has done the same thing, greatly adding to our knowledge and expanding Man's reach into deep space.

[TinBryn]

does this show it in a vacuum then turned on or turned on then the vacuum created, because there are several reasons why something can move in a vacuum, including light so if this can have less movement when off it is significant. You have to be very careful when dealing with small forces in vacuums, you don't know which small forces are at work

[Beamshipcaptain]

The forces in vacuum, with low power, are NOT small.

[Beamshipcaptain]

French inventor Jean-Claude Lafforge proposes a similar idea in his 1991 patent on an asymmetrical thrust capacitor. He suggests that when a capacitor is charged,the fields it generates have their seat in the local space-time continuum reference frame, allowing then to act on the capacitor without any reaction force being directed back to the capacitor itself. Thus,he suggests that the electric fields generated by properly shaped asymmetrical capacitor can exert unbalanced electrostatic forces.

[Beamshipcaptain]

If this effect was due to ion-wind, the little pinwheel should not move in vacuum at all. Proof positive of a "ponderomotive-force", which the discoverer, TT Brown dubbed ELECTROGRAVITICS in 1927.

[Joeviocoe]

Actually, it looks more like a reaction to the stationary objects in the chamber or the chamber walls. If it moves using the same principles that lifters use, then it would be spinning in one direction VERY fast.

Not wobbling like that.

[Beamshipcaptain]

TT Brown admitted in his papers and patents that the device reacts on its SURROUNDINGS, even when its surroundings are vacuum, or ether, which today is know as Quantum Foam, or the Zero-point energy of spacetime, verified in Casimir-systems, and Silvertooth-Sagnac interferometry-experiments. The wobbling is due to the low-powerlevel used in this experiment. Nevertheless, it is neat proof of concept.

[Joeviocoe]

"which today is know as Quantum Foam, or the Zero-point energy of spacetime, verified in Casimir-systems, and Silvertooth-Sagnac interferometry-experiments"

You just love to spout off nonsense wrapped in the illusion of real science.

Reacting to the surroundings is called electrostatics. High voltage will strip electrons from ALL matter not just air. The resultant force can be motion. Nothing to do with foam or ZPE.

[Beamshipcaptain]

In vacuum, the device reacts on the ETHER. Please read ETHER TECHNOLOGY: a Rational Approach to Gravity-control (that I first read in 1987) by Rho Sigma (The late Dr. Rolf Schaffranke of Huntsville, AL.

[Joeviocoe]

Yes, I have read much of about the theories. But it has nothing to do with what your claiming.

[Beamshipcaptain]

It has everything to do with it, and you well know it.

[derrick713]

what a fool read a lot of garbage produce only garbage

[Beamshipcaptain]

Not garbage. Science. And working hardware, that is obviously independent of air. It was once widely thought that rockets would not work in vacuum either ("nothing to push against").

[mike4ty4]

@Beamshipcaptain But you've said it INCREASES efficiency in vacuum, not decreases it. Wouldn't they be using the same powerlevel here as they would in atmosphere? If so, then why is it not working like it does in atmosphere? According to you, it should not only work but work BETTER.

[Beamshipcaptain]

They don't. They can decrease the current level to get the same effect, as TT Brown showed in 1959 here at King of Prussia, 2 miles from here, at the big vacuum chamber here, that the Biefeld- Brown effect is more efficient in vacuum, and also Takaaki Musha at the 2007 AIAA meeting.

[mike4ty4]

@Beamshipcaptain So why isn't the lifter in this video lifting? What are they doing wrong? And can you post a video where it's done right?

[Beamshipcaptain]

Because this is a test for horizontal "thrust" (acually, in this form of propulsion, 'thrust" is entirely the wrong nomenclature, as every atom of device and payload responds in uniform manner instantaneously to the superimposed electric-field.

[mike4ty4]

@Beamshipcaptain What do you mean, horizontal? A lifter is supposed to lift vertically! How would you propose this experiment be carried out correctly, so as to produce a lifter that actually lifts off in a vacuum chamber?

[Beamshipcaptain]

Just copy the TT Brown patents and video, as I and others did. If you have horizontal force, you have force in any direction. I first built the horizontal saucers in January 1990, and then I built larger ones which you can see flying on my channel! THe vertical units are built different configuration and lightweight wo we can use safer-lower DC potentials.

[Beamshipcaptain]

Videos of TT BRown devices lifting inside evacuated Bell Jars from late 1950s Agnew H. Bahnson Labs in Winston,Salem, NC, which are on youtube now;I first obtained TT Brown's Bahnson Labs mome movies in 1990, from Sev Bonnie, a Scientist I met in Colorado Springs, who worked with Brown in the 1950s.

[mike4ty4]

Looks like it isn't really doing anything. Looks like a successful debunk to me.

[JaedomHexen]

Looks like it was bleeding electrons from the needle like ends in pulses, looks very similar to the experiments in the early 40's. I would have detection sensors inside to be sure, but that's my 5 dollor bet. When enough potential is in a shape of a V the charges gather densly causing electrons to be propelled away from the points and if it is not complete vacuum their will still be Ion's. There are several ways to go into this, you have to think of everything.

[Tommynocka100]

Even if ther is in a vakuum nothing,there r still electomagnetic waves!

possibly we can retrieve energy from a vakuum in further future.

[mike4ty4]

This is not an energy generator, it's supposed to be a "lifter" or propulsion system.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

using solar powered lifter propulsion technology to propel blimps would be kind of cool.

[getthoe]

I find it clear that even if there was any effect there except ion wind. It seems kind of pityfull... is the tiny twitch in this video going to revolutionize how we do propulsion? It seem it has trouble moving even the lightest of materials. How is that going to do anything? Spend 10 years to accellerate to 100 km/h in space? Or does it remove inertia also, Ofc it does =P almost blasphemic of me to think otherwise. Very lame of me trying to be realistic. Much cooler if this is warptech..=P

[NumbAllOver]

Actually it does revolutionize space propulsion. Even the tiniest bit of force that can be generated constantly in a vacuum is enough to propel and control a spacecraft to the edge of the solar system far quicker than we do today.

[frankensteinmoneymac]

Many revolutionary technologies started off as pitiful. People thought electricity a simple Parlor trick with no use at 1 time. The point here is in proving that there IS something more than Ion Wind going on....The two next steps, preferably but not absolutaly in this order, is finding out just WHAT is going on...is it something revolutionary like an electrogravitic effect ...or something more ordinary? Then 2nd you try to find out if its possible to increase the effect to a more usable level.

[CharlieMacklin1]

This appears to be a valid test, and is very interesting, but more information is needed.

Something is happening, but it may not be electro-gravity in action. Small eddy currents could be producing the motion by interacting with the Earth's magnetic field.

[LamenessFTW]

so it needs air because the movement of the air causes the force? or it needs the air because it provides it with the capacitance (sorry if thats the wrong term) ? I was curious if a self contained lifter would work (like a lifter in a air tight bubble, which is surrounded by a vacuum, but has air inside).

[lacone3615]

I am not impressed. I have seen lifter technology using triangular aluminium frames flying up in the air. What the heck is this? Why can't you place a lifter in avacuum at 30KV and see it floats?

[LamenessFTW]

i think for testing purposes they use one that spins, as you would be able to see smaller forces at work that might not be strong enough to counter gravity.

[LifesVoyager]

Here's the challenge: make a lifter that is useful - one that can lift a man and carry him a mile.

Stop pissing around with toys and do the job properly.

[Anothercoilgun]

Ditto. Stop pissing around in blogs and do as you say.

[purplenoise2002]

Could somebody describe how this experiment works? what is the windmill looking thingie? what part is charged and to what voltages? what is repelled or attracted to what? that would make it much easier to appreciate. Clearly, I see a video proving that *something* works but I don't know *what* and *how*.

[Joeviocoe]

HOAX... it not a lifter. Nothing is lifting.

High voltages causing an oscillation in some conductors... wow.. not impressive at all!

When you put an ACTUAL Lifter in a Vacuum (like Beamshipcaptain refuses to do with his) it will NOT lift!

[kwolds]

Corretct.

This is a more complex version of the "floating globe" toy. ;) magnetic lifter.

[1freedomfighter1]

Why because myth busters who had a week tops to slap one together and through it in a vacuum with no scales even under it say so? pffft. Why not take the word of real scientists like T townsend Brown, Boyd Bushman, I have seen anti gravity a few different ways, I have also made objects gain weight. you are stating an opinion NOTHING more.

[Joeviocoe]

Townsend is NOT a scientist. If you think so, put your claim where your keyboard is. Give me the names of his degree, the universities attended, and "peer review" publications. ALL these are need to be called a scientist.

I have read his work. It is NOT peer reviewed, nor independently verified. And I have found NOTHING of his formal education.

I am not the claimant, you are. I have repeatedly asked you for evidence and you have repeatly made excuses on why you cannot.

[1freedomfighter1]

hmm did you post this to the wrong person? I don't recall anyone asking me for evidence? but there is tons out there if some one takes the time to look into it, Stan Deyo, Boyd Bushman, John Hutchinson, monoatomic gold, and Hydrogen as my work shows, Searl, As for brown not being a scientist, WHO CARES? He was always working in these fields with scientists, most scientist just like to talk about how much they know rather than what they don't know.

Go read browns biography in Wiki.

[Joeviocoe]

from youtube to wiki... wow your sources get better and better. *sarcasm level 4*

You just listed the pseudoscience all-star team. Unfortunately, you now have even less scientific credibility.

[1freedomfighter1]

you are a moron, all you idiots want to do is talk about how much you know, not what you may not know, I have seen anti gravity with my own eyes, I have done the work, you have an outdated OPINION, NOTHING more, thanks for your opinion but it means nothing to me, someone that has done the work.

[Joeviocoe]

Ha, you believe your eyes and your own experiments (of which you do NOT conduct scientifically) over the tested work of the thousands of higher qualified scientist who came before.

As the skeptic claim nothing other than what is ALREADY KNOWN TO BE TRUE.

It is YOU who have improper conclusions based on BAD experimentation.

And I don't talk about what I know or don't know. I talk about what the rest of world knows and what YOU don't know.

[1freedomfighter1]

you don't get it, any one that has done the work knows the truth, it is people like you that have not done the work and take what you are told by the very people that don't want you to have this information for power and control as the gospel truth. Any one that has done the work is trying to tell you of the reality but you are waiting for you peers to tell you, they will not, there are trillions at stake and the obvious loss of power over you and I.

[hypnotekk]

what are your academic qualifications?

careful now... there will be a test!

[mike4ty4]

Oh yeah, then why isn't it LIFTING all over in there like it does in AIr? To me it looks like it needs air to work, so there is no AntiGravity here.

[hypnotekk]

is wiki a reliable source?

it says that Mr John Searle is a fake, pretty much.

[1freedomfighter1]

In 1930 he joined the U.S. Navy and conducted fundamental research in electromagnetism, radiation, field physics, spectroscopy, gravity and other topics. He later worked for Glenn L. Martin and, still later, for the National Defense Research Committee (NDRC) and the Office of Scientific Research and Development, headed at that time by Dr. Vannevar Bush. After 1944 he worked as a consultant to the Lockheed-Vega

[korgri]

He spins in his grave faster than his little saucers around that pole everytime someone connects his name to all this youtube lifter-antigravity stuff. Like walking up behind Leonard Nimoy and whispering 'Star Trek'. His hands start to shake and he curls into a little ball and weeps quietly.

[hypnotekk]

someone with a brain. at last!

if you fancy a laugh, talk to beamshipcaptain.

he often wonders round these parts spouting unqualified bullshit about antigravity and "professor" searle.

and like most on here, he gets VERY upset if you ask him his academic background!

[korgri]

He really stays at it. Cheney and the illuminati are on his tail, he and his GANG OF TESLANS are smuggling THE LAVIOLLETTE SECRETS from one place to another, waiting for the day to reveal their greatness and receive their due accolades, which means they'll settle for him getting a walk on part in the next Star Trek movie... (Hawking did it!) But don't tell anyone.. they have to guard it carefully from those who look to SUPPRESS the TRUTH (it's the IMPORTANT THING because it's capitalized)

[hypnotekk]

that's beautiful. very funny. its hard to tell if youre joking or not, cos most of these anti-grav people ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT hahaha

[korgri]

If the little propellor barely wobbling back and forth is supposed to be evidence, then I guess this might be a video of something else that someone got a hold of and claim to a demonstration of a 'lifter in vacuum'.I expect a 'lifter in vacuum' demo to be a little electric kite thing sitting on the floor and at first you see proof of vacuum (hard balloon pop) then the lifter rise up as power is applied. However, this won't happen because it needs air to work.

[korgri]

it is surprising, I thing it's some kind of spiritual thing for those guys, they think they are into science but they approach it with the serious emotional involvement you usually only see in religious zealots or fans of pro wrestling.

[hypnotekk]

yeah that would be fine/ or just a large bell jar with a CLEARLY VISIBLE pressure gauge would do.

the propellor contradicts what these idiots are saying. they claim it is more efficient in vacuum. if that was truem why not make a mini-lifter as you say?

because biefeld-brown effect needs air to ionize.

MHD thrusters in space carry their own supply of ions. they do not DEPEND on vacuum. it is NOT antigravity. it is NEWTONS 3rd law of motion, nothing more.

[hypnotekk]

however, it is true to say that an MHD thruster is more efficience in space due to the LACK of surrounding gravitational fields-e.g the spacecraft is LIGHTER in space.

the fools.

[BeamshipGeneral]

Hey... aren't you the guy whose trying to argue with my TOP MAN on the inside? Don't you know who BeanshitCaptain is? Christ, 'kid' where have you been? We've got this lifter shit covered!! They've been coming at us since 1990 when we first flew out to COFE3 for some important stuff. They gave us all some merit badges. How can that be wrong?

[17oodles]

That is not a lifter...

[Beamshipcaptain]

This is'nt a hoax.

[Beamshipcaptain]

Proof-positive. My friends, this is as real as it gets. Electrogravitics. The stars beckon...

[autocon2002]

The resolution of this video isn't high enough to convince me. There could be a thin wire suspending the lifter (which doesn't look like any lifter I've ever seen before, btw), and if it IS a real lifter, there's still no way of knowing if that chamber was actually pumped down. I'm sorry but there's too much room for fabrication to convince me.

[SonoNessuno]

Look better at the setup: it's a suspended four arms piece with "lifters" (or Ionocrafts or whatever you want to call them) attached to the extremities and parallel to the ground. Since these devices act in the direction given by the alignment of the two electrodes, the four lifters should spin the thing. Which is not happening.